WWE Treatment of Black Wrestlers.....Thank You WWE | WrestleZone Forums

WWE Treatment of Black Wrestlers.....Thank You WWE

Angels

Dark Match Winner
As a black male watch wrestling, I have been apalled by the treatment that black wrestlers had, as every single one has been placed in jobber mode, Mark Henry has been tossed to the wolves getting absolutely destroyed by the shield and later Brock Lesnar. R-truth and Xavier woods has been the laughing stock, also jobbing to everyone in sight, and even worse, Kofi Kingston, who loss to 3mb for christ sake. But even with all the signs pointing towards that direction, there was one shining light in Big E. But even I could see Big E was going through some of the worst booking recent history. He hasn't had a victory or raw/smackdown since february. Let me repeat that, FEBRUARY. He was completely off the microphone for almost the entire time. For christ sake, the intercontinental tournament was on Raw and Smackdown yet Big E was neglected to Main Event and Superstars. But still, I held hope that perhaps they might do a turn around, and actually treat big e with importance. Instead, he loses.

So I have to say thank you WWE, I think Big E was the last straw that finally allowed for me to distance myself from the show. I've been a major follower for years, but it seems like somehow Donald Sterling ended up being hired at the WWE as Black Wrestlers are clearly treated as second class wrestlers, and it's horrid. So when things may change, and they actually decide to treat someone with my skin color as actually important, I might start watching again, but the WWE has finally gotten me to stop watching their programs.
 
I don't think race plays a factor.

There just aren't as many talented black wrestlers or blacks going into professional wrestling compared to whites.

Others have fared worse than the wrestlers you've named. From Ziggler, to Ryder.
 
I don't think race plays a factor.

There just aren't as many talented black wrestlers or blacks going into professional wrestling compared to whites.

Others have fared worse than the wrestlers you've named. From Ziggler, to Ryder.

Disagree, Kofi Kingston has gone way worse than Ziggler. Ziggler just beat Swagger on Main Event, while Kofi has been the residential jobber since his miraculous win against randy orton. Ziggler has never fallen so far as to lose to 3mb.

And for black wrestlers not being as talented, I'm sorry but that's a complete insult. Big E is just as talented as Cesaro, both are impressively strong with incredible movesets, while I give Big E the slight advantage in terms of explosiveness. But Big E has been reduced to grade a jobber while Cesaro is getting pushed to high heaven. So I have to disagree, it's clearly showing up as a race issue, and it's even more noticeable when looking at the upcoming smackdown results.
 
Disagree, Kofi Kingston has gone way worse than Ziggler. Ziggler just beat Swagger on Main Event, while Kofi has been the residential jobber since his miraculous win against randy orton. Ziggler has never fallen so far as to lose to 3mb.

And for black wrestlers not being as talented, I'm sorry but that's a complete insult. Big E is just as talented as Cesaro, both are impressively strong with incredible movesets, while I give Big E the slight advantage in terms of explosiveness. But Big E has been reduced to grade a jobber while Cesaro is getting pushed to high heaven. So I have to disagree, it's clearly showing up as a race issue, and it's even more noticeable when looking at the upcoming smackdown results.

Come on now.

Big E is not as talented as Cesaro.

While Big E isn't bad, he has a long way to go in the ring.
 
You are incorrect, mistaken, misguided, and, dare I say, wrong. Let's take a look at your list here:

Mark Henry: An upper-mid carder at best who is winding down his career and is best used for elevating young talent, such as The Shield, and those that are simply better than him, such as Brock Lesnar (if you haven't heard, he broke the Streak). He's fine where he is.

R-Truth: Has been a joke for years and if you think that's a recent development you're either a newer fan or delusional.

Xavier Woods: :lmao::lmao::lmao:

Kofi Kingston: I love Kofi, but he's great at being the modern Tito Santana: a career midcarder that can have great matches with almost anyone and can brush off repeated losses. That's not a bad spot at all and with several mid card title reigns under his belt and more than a few memorable moments, I honestly wouldn't be surprised to see him in the Hall of Fame one day. Yes, I'm being serious.

Big E: I'll kind of give you that, but his terrible booking has nothing to do with being black. He was simply the Intercontinental Champion in modern WWE.

Shame on you for excluding Alica Fox. She's more useless than all of these guys combined and you keep her off the list? Who's the racist now?
 
Come on now.

Big E is not as talented as Cesaro.

While Big E isn't bad, he has a long way to go in the ring.


We definitely will have to disagree with that aspect than, Big has an impressive display of power and yet speed at the same time, plus he's a better seller than Cesaro (which is probably part of the reason why he's heading to jobberville, the same happen to ziggler) On the other hand, Cesaro moveset is slightly more impressive, he has a more varied attack structure than Big E. But this could be because Big E is constantly selling a lot more than Cesaro.

But they are both very talented in the ring. Hell, Both wrestlers are way better in the ring than roman reigns, and yet roman reigns is main event status o_O? Not to say I don't like Roman Reigns, I think what he lacks in in ring ability, it makes up for in charisma, physique and straight intimidation. But if we are to compare in ring abilities, Big E and Cesaro are way better than Roman Reigns.
 
You are incorrect, mistaken, misguided, and, dare I say, wrong. Let's take a look at your list here:

Mark Henry: An upper-mid carder at best who is winding down his career and is best used for elevating young talent, such as The Shield, and those that are simply better than him, such as Brock Lesnar (if you haven't heard, he broke the Streak). He's fine where he is.

R-Truth: Has been a joke for years and if you think that's a recent development you're either a newer fan or delusional.

Xavier Woods: :lmao::lmao::lmao:

Kofi Kingston: I love Kofi, but he's great at being the modern Tito Santana: a career midcarder that can have great matches with almost anyone and can brush off repeated losses. That's not a bad spot at all and with several mid card title reigns under his belt and more than a few memorable moments, I honestly wouldn't be surprised to see him in the Hall of Fame one day. Yes, I'm being serious.

Big E: I'll kind of give you that, but his terrible booking has nothing to do with being black. He was simply the Intercontinental Champion in modern WWE.

Shame on you for excluding Alica Fox. She's more useless than all of these guys combined and you keep her off the list? Who's the racist now?

So somehow, the right thing to do is to keep every single black wrestler as a jobber? Seriously? Whose exactly wrong here.

Mark Henry: Mark Henry I can see being used as pushing new wrestlers since supposedly his career is winding down, but at the same time, he shouldn't be used as a person who loses every single match, otherwise the "upper mid card status" becomes revoked into nothing more than a jobber, which means not upper mid card. He has to obtain wins otherwise he becomes nothing more than the worf effect.

R-truth: And whose idea was that to gimmick him with that crazy little jimmy madness? Definitely not r-truth. His in ring capabilities are great and he has great charisma, far more than many of the wrestlers who are pushed way ahead of him like swagger.

Xavier Woods: You comment on a wrestler whose barely been in the wwe? He hasn't even been in long enough to determine he should be a jobber. But of course, being black, he gets sent down that direction.

Kofi Kingston: And whose putting that limiter on him? He's no different than ziggler, and yet with ziggler losing left and right everyone says it's not fair, but somehow kofi losing to 3mb is no big deal? The hypocrisy in that is incredible.

Big E: Again not true, even outside of the IC Championship, he's still losing as you will see in the upcoming Smackdown results. So no it's not just the IC Championship. Plus, even as IC championship, he still continue to lose at smackdown and raw, his only victories appeared on main event and superstars, second tier events. Now that Big E doesn't have the belt, nothing is going to save him in becoming a jobber like all the other black wrestlers.
 
While I will not extoll the virtues of Big E's in-rig prowess...I can not sit by and let another slam on the talent he has go by.

Big E and Cesaro are somewhat on the same level IN WWE. As WWE has not let either of them fully show what they can do. A sight advantage to Cesaro strictly due to his ROH experience.

As for black wrestlers...I am just as frustrated with WWE as the OP, but I still watch with hope. I know that black wrestlers will never see the big belt anytime soon. Especially after the unification this year, and no one in developmental will come close.
I made these (following)examples before and I ask anyone who disputes the racial undertones to give me a clear explanation why.

A) Jack Swagger was given a "surprise"/trial/hotshot run with the WHC a few years back. He was still fairly new, and didn't show a great ability to run with the title. But WWE gave him the championship as a test run. This will NEVER happen to a black man.
Why is that? Big E has been with the company longer at this point and doesn't sound like Sylvester the Cat.

B) Christian got the WHC almost as a "thank you" for service where he was placed in a couple of feuds for it and eventually lost it. But he was recognized for his time put in. Outside of Mark Henry's run at around that same time, no black man will currently get that rub. Hell outside of Henry now, no black man has put in the same amount of "service years" to 'earn' that run. But Kofi has put in time...

Basically Black Men do not get the opportunities to get the bigger pushes that others get. Look at the championship runs by the Miz, and the 2 guys I mentioned before and LOGICALLY tell me what black man gets those runs, or why not.

And don't get me started on the diva's, I mean not since Jacqueline has anyone got a decent run. How long was Alicia Fox's reign? Like a week?
 
While I will not extoll the virtues of Big E's in-rig prowess...I can not sit by and let another slam on the talent he has go by.

Big E and Cesaro are somewhat on the same level IN WWE. As WWE has not let either of them fully show what they can do. A sight advantage to Cesaro strictly due to his ROH experience.

As for black wrestlers...I am just as frustrated with WWE as the OP, but I still watch with hope. I know that black wrestlers will never see the big belt anytime soon. Especially after the unification this year, and no one in developmental will come close.
I made these (following)examples before and I ask anyone who disputes the racial undertones to give me a clear explanation why.

A) Jack Swagger was given a "surprise"/trial/hotshot run with the WHC a few years back. He was still fairly new, and didn't show a great ability to run with the title. But WWE gave him the championship as a test run. This will NEVER happen to a black man.
Why is that? Big E has been with the company longer at this point and doesn't sound like Sylvester the Cat.

B) Christian got the WHC almost as a "thank you" for service where he was placed in a couple of feuds for it and eventually lost it. But he was recognized for his time put in. Outside of Mark Henry's run at around that same time, no black man will currently get that rub. Hell outside of Henry now, no black man has put in the same amount of "service years" to 'earn' that run. But Kofi has put in time...

Basically Black Men do not get the opportunities to get the bigger pushes that others get. Look at the championship runs by the Miz, and the 2 guys I mentioned before and LOGICALLY tell me what black man gets those runs, or why not.

And don't get me started on the diva's, I mean not since Jacqueline has anyone got a decent run. How long was Alicia Fox's reign? Like a week?

I don't know how you can maintain hope, really I don't. I tried, I tried for a very long time, but with WWE taking away the title of Big E, and sending him down the same road as everyone else, it seems like a clear example that people of a certain ethnicity will reach a certain ceiling within the WWE sadly. I had hope, but it's pretty much gone now.
 
Vince McMahon is a businessman. Anything he views will make him money, he will do. The only color he sees is green. Basically he is Mr. Krabs.

Also The Rock destroys your entire argument. Literally destroys it.

Cesaro has the swing. The crowd loves the swing. Big E has nothing as over as that. The swing is the only reason Cesaro gained traction and got to do anything. Simple. Cesaro was getting the "push to midcard and win title then writers get bored" treatment. Nothing to do with who is better at this or that.

Kingston is something WWE will always need. A midcard guy who can be shot into any midcard storyline, have a great match with anyone and is able to be a transition champion for every midcard title. He is basically a midcard version of Jericho. Kingston is in a very important position despite what his 'push' would suggest.

I would wager you are being racist, not being able to look subjectively that some guys are better than others. Insinuating that the only reason white guys are doing better in the WWE is because they are white is mind numbingly stupid. It can't be they are actually better. WWE can't have a black guy be a huge star cause they want too, he has to get over.

Barrett got the same exact treatment as Big E awhile ago. THE EXACT SAME TREATMENT. He won the title and then fell off the Earth. Where is your outrage over the WWE being prejudice against English people? Oh right that would be crazy.
 
So somehow, the right thing to do is to keep every single black wrestler as a jobber? Seriously? Whose exactly wrong here.

Mark Henry: Mark Henry I can see being used as pushing new wrestlers since supposedly his career is winding down, but at the same time, he shouldn't be used as a person who loses every single match, otherwise the "upper mid card status" becomes revoked into nothing more than a jobber, which means not upper mid card. He has to obtain wins otherwise he becomes nothing more than the worf effect.

R-truth: And whose idea was that to gimmick him with that crazy little jimmy madness? Definitely not r-truth. His in ring capabilities are great and he has great charisma, far more than many of the wrestlers who are pushed way ahead of him like swagger.

Xavier Woods: You comment on a wrestler whose barely been in the wwe? He hasn't even been in long enough to determine he should be a jobber. But of course, being black, he gets sent down that direction.

Kofi Kingston: And whose putting that limiter on him? He's no different than ziggler, and yet with ziggler losing left and right everyone says it's not fair, but somehow kofi losing to 3mb is no big deal? The hypocrisy in that is incredible.

Big E: Again not true, even outside of the IC Championship, he's still losing as you will see in the upcoming Smackdown results. So no it's not just the IC Championship. Plus, even as IC championship, he still continue to lose at smackdown and raw, his only victories appeared on main event and superstars, second tier events. Now that Big E doesn't have the belt, nothing is going to save him in becoming a jobber like all the other black wrestlers.

Henry is basically a less-successful Chris Jericho: a guy who can lose match after match and still maintain the same status due to past accomplishments. He still beats other midcarders/lower midcarders and only loses to established names and rising talent. I really don't see your problem with Henry's booking.

Funny you bring up Truth's crazy period as being bad considering that's by far the most popular and entertaining he's ever been. He even got two ppv main events with the Little Jimmy stuff against JOHN CENA and THE ROCK. That gimmick ran its course and now's he's back to rapping R-Truth which is a big pile of "meh". Truth's work is decent and he's charismatic for sure, but guys like Swagger can wrestle circles around him and I'm not even a Jack Swagger fan. He's nothing more than a mid carder in my eyes and considering there are superior superstars also on that level, he's perfectly placed at the lower end of that spectrum.

I've seen plenty of Woods' work in NXT and back when he was in TNA as Consequences Creed and while he's solid, he's an average high flier at best. There are guys on the roster that can do everything he can but better, and then some (Mysterio, Rollins, Kofi). Honestly, Tyson Kidd deserves the TV time that Woods gets every week.

The difference between Ziggler and Kofi is charisma. Ziggler can talk and has confidence on the mic while Kofi's promos always come off as awkward to me. That's why Ziggler is more over than he is.

Once again, that kind of booking is not exclusive to Big E. It's happened to numerous midcard champs in recent years. Hell, the guy that beat him, Bad News Barrett, suffered the same exact fate during and after his previous IC title run a year ago. It took a hiatus, a new name and a new gimmick for Barrett to get over his crap booking and Big E may need to overhaul his current character which is....he's big and strong. That's my nice way of saying he's bland - and that's coming from a Big E fan.

Truth is, none of these guys other than maybe Big E need to be elevated higher than they are. It's not because they're black, but frankly because they either lack the in-ring talent, charisma, or are simply too old to be anything more. If it makes you feel better, there are plenty of non-black superstars in the same boat (Swagger, Big Show, Curtis Axel).
 
First thing: The Rock is not a trump card and shouldn't be used as such. Doing so weakens the discussion about a serious topic.

You know, the last time I commented in a thread of this nature, I was able to get good old Nate Milton of Kings of Sport and Review an Impact fame to drop in. As a respected black commentator on pro wrestling, I'd like to see him put his profile to good use and throw his two cents in on this one.

As for me, I try to be as colorblind as possible. I can certainly see where Angels is coming from though. Unfortunately, it's not as if it's exactly a new ordeal. There have been many times in the past where what few black performers there were on WWE's roster were relegated to low card roles. I hesitate to cry racism, but it's not as if the allegations aren't out there. Plus I live in the real world; there are prejudiced individuals at every level of society, government, and business. WWE is no exception, I'm sure.

The black Superstars on the roster currently aren't the most talented or charismatic guys in the company, that much I will give those who are saying such. Henry and Truth could've been more, but they're past their primes now and should be relegated a bit. Time is on Xavier's side. I'm not even sure creative remembers Kofi exists until they need a guy to throw in a match. JTG is getting money, money, yeah, yeah, for very little work, but he can work; whether or not they'll let him is a different story.

Leaving all of them aside, however, there is one individual who I've liked and seen potential in from day one-- Naomi. She's very attractive, talented, and while not a great talker, does have some natural charisma and likeability. I think an eye injury set her back some months ago, and it seems as if Total Divas keeps all of the girls who participate in it from doing much else. If neither the injury nor the show happened, I think she and AJ could've put on some great matches for the Diva's title. To me, their match was the biggest highlight from the Divas NXT season, and I was hopeful that they'd get to do it again on the main stage.

This is a touchy subject. I don't speak for any race, just for myself, and I can see both sides. I would hope that as the world's number 1 wrestling organization, as well as a publicly traded company with an anti-bullying initiative, WWE would be aware that they have a bit of a responsibility to all of their demographics, but then again WWE seems pretty clueless on a lot of fronts. I'm sure there are many Asians and Hispanics who have similar complaints, and as with this, I could certainly see their case. If WWE's portrayal or usage of Superstars/Divas of any given background displeases individuals of that background, I'm certainly in no place to tell them to keep watching. Perhaps if more follow Angels' lead, WWE will at least start to think harder about this stuff.

P.S.

Immaturity and inability to see things from other points of view will derail this discussion, so I don't plan to follow up. I've said my piece. Welcome to the boards, Angels. Don't let WWE or some of our less thoughtful users discourage you from sticking around.
 
Lol is this threat actually serious? Is this some drawn out troll moment? No seriously... I'm a bit bothered by the simple notion of this thread, I must admit. Here's the thing, I'm black myself and iv stated plenty of times on plenty of mediums how I hate wwe's treatment of African american wrestlers. However, this is foolish. Kofi is one of the most beloved stars under contract, and you really wish to say he is mistreated? Plenty of time as a mid card champ but somehow he is supposed to never have a stretch where he isn't jobbing (which every wrestler does) and therefore should probably be world champion for 472 days because him losing anywhere near often isn't allowed? That's what ur telling me? OK, so mysterio was believable as a world champ in ur eyes then? Fuck it, give Kofi the belt, let him break Bruno's record. I won't speak on henry because that man has put in huge amounts of work and been rewarded in more ways then one. Big E will eventually be upper midcard, he will be fine... I predict be will be a bit better then Kofi as far as accolades go. I can see big e winning the big belt twice in his career which is fair for ANY wrestler.

Let me touch another sub point that was made though. You mention reigns as a comparable name when speaking of black wrestlers, and that helps you how? You are trying yl make the point that wwe is racist and doesnt push black wrestlers but you name the most over black wrestler on the roster as if he is not black and is in the way of big e? Are you ******ed or ******ed? Did you honestly forget that that man is black? DID YOU HONESTLY FLRGET ABOUT THE USOS?! Family aside, all three of those men are black and all three are doing very VERY well by modern wwe standards. Not to mention the usos got the same treatment as ur beloved kofi and big e for what, a full two years I believe? And when it waa there time, they were given the spotlight. Get off ur damn soap box, ur making me look bad.
 
First thing: The Rock is not a trump card and shouldn't be used as such. Doing so weakens the discussion about a serious topic.

You know, the last time I commented in a thread of this nature, I was able to get good old Nate Milton of Kings of Sport and Review an Impact fame to drop in. As a respected black commentator on pro wrestling, I'd like to see him put his profile to good use and throw his two cents in on this one.

As for me, I try to be as colorblind as possible. I can certainly see where Angels is coming from though. Unfortunately, it's not as if it's exactly a new ordeal. There have been many times in the past where what few black performers there were on WWE's roster were relegated to low card roles. I hesitate to cry racism, but it's not as if the allegations aren't out there. Plus I live in the real world; there are prejudiced individuals at every level of society, government, and business. WWE is no exception, I'm sure.

The black Superstars on the roster currently aren't the most talented or charismatic guys in the company, that much I will give those who are saying such. Henry and Truth could've been more, but they're past their primes now and should be relegated a bit. Time is on Xavier's side. I'm not even sure creative remembers Kofi exists until they need a guy to throw in a match. JTG is getting money, money, yeah, yeah, for very little work, but he can work; whether or not they'll let him is a different story.

Leaving all of them aside, however, there is one individual who I've liked and seen potential in from day one-- Naomi. She's very attractive, talented, and while not a great talker, does have some natural charisma and likeability. I think an eye injury set her back some months ago, and it seems as if Total Divas keeps all of the girls who participate in it from doing much else. If neither the injury nor the show happened, I think she and AJ could've put on some great matches for the Diva's title. To me, their match was the biggest highlight from the Divas NXT season, and I was hopeful that they'd get to do it again on the main stage.

This is a touchy subject. I don't speak for any race, just for myself, and I can see both sides. I would hope that as a the world's number 1 wrestling organization, as well as a publicly traded company with an anti-bullying initiative, WWE would be aware that they have a bit of a responsibility to all of their demographics, but then again WWE seems pretty clueless on a lot of fronts. I'm sure there are many Asians and Hispanics who have similar complaints, and as with this, I could certainly see their case. If WWE's portrayal or usage of Superstars/Divas of any given background displeases individuals of that background, I'm certainly in no place to tell them to keep watching. Perhaps if more follow Angels' lead, WWE will at least start to think harder about this stuff.

When saying the WWE is racist, The Rock can be used as a trump card. He is the third biggest star of all time. Unless you want to get into an argument about how WWE is only racist towards certain black people not named Rock because...

The WWE is not racist. There may be people within WWE who are racist but have kept their mouth shut. When it comes to black wrestlers not getting over, it is not because of their color. Big E will get a chance again someday. For now, he will fall into the same pit a lot of midcarders fall into. They all usually get another chance but it takes WWE awhile to cycle back to them.

Saying WWE needs to fill quotas is racist. I always hate it when people say they need to hire more of this ethnicity or that. It should be, who will be the best PERSON for this job. WWE is supposed to have the best wrestlers in the world. Regardless of skin color, ethnicity or whatever. They can't just go into the independents and pluck whatever ethnicity guy they want, they have to pick a guy with potential. No matter the skin color. All they want is potential.

Also forgot this one, Vince personally put Bobby Lashley over himself and insisted that Lashley win the Extreme Elimination Chamber when it was obvious everyone wanted Punk. In this case, Punk was treated badly because WWE wanted Lashley. Please tell me how this is any different from the OP post. It's not. But in the OP's logic, this should be considered prejudice against Punk.
 
Vince McMahon is a businessman. Anything he views will make him money, he will do. The only color he sees is green. Basically he is Mr. Krabs.

Also The Rock destroys your entire argument. Literally destroys it.

Cesaro has the swing. The crowd loves the swing. Big E has nothing as over as that. The swing is the only reason Cesaro gained traction and got to do anything. Simple. Cesaro was getting the "push to midcard and win title then writers get bored" treatment. Nothing to do with who is better at this or that.

Kingston is something WWE will always need. A midcard guy who can be shot into any midcard storyline, have a great match with anyone and is able to be a transition champion for every midcard title. He is basically a midcard version of Jericho. Kingston is in a very important position despite what his 'push' would suggest.

I would wager you are being racist, not being able to look subjectively that some guys are better than others. Insinuating that the only reason white guys are doing better in the WWE is because they are white is mind numbingly stupid. It can't be they are actually better. WWE can't have a black guy be a huge star cause they want too, he has to get over.

Barrett got the same exact treatment as Big E awhile ago. THE EXACT SAME TREATMENT. He won the title and then fell off the Earth. Where is your outrage over the WWE being prejudice against English people? Oh right that would be crazy.


There's so many things wrong with this post I don't know where to start.

I never stated that the only thing Vince Mcmahon sees is green, if somehow a black wrestler even with all the crap they get put through somehow was super popular, they might bring him to the top, but than again they might not. Look at what happened Santino a few years ago, a guy who arguably held the loudest pops in the industry. Did he reach the top? No, so creative design and writing still trumps all. If it wasn't for bryan being a constant draws in pops, he would be in the mid card slot with everyone else. You underestimate the amount of power creative design actually has.

It's not just the swing that built him up, it was also how writing book him, when placed on the real americans, they were given a slow but steady build up which continues to today. Big E on the other hand got build up really quickly and than just dropped when suddenly all black wrestlers began to job, (around the february time frame) Big E was given horrible booking so it makes sense how he wasn't able to get over with the crowd, seeing as he was losing almost all of his matches since february, no mike time, etc

Yes but Jericho was also able to reach WWE gold, Ziggler, someone in the same boat, was also someone who reached WWE gold. Where's kofi's gold? Hell, even ziggler is starting to get back into strides, Kofi isn't even mid card even more so I'm not even sure why you are referring to him as mid card, he's low card now, again, he's jobbing to 3mb. let me repeat that 3mb.

I'm not able to look at things subjectively? You haven't agreed with one possible aspect that the wwe might be holding back black wrestlers, and yet I'm not looking at these things subjectively? Sorry, but no. I have at least agreed with Mark Henry's fate. I can see why he has been used in enhancement talent with him being towards the last years of his career possibly. With that said, you are completely incorrect on calling me racist, not just in your lack of understanding in terms of the meaning behind the word racist but also incorrect labeling of thinking I don't think some white wrestlers are better than black, as that's completely untrue. But at the same time, I can also admit that certain black wrestlers are at the same level or better than certain white wrestlers getting a push, something you don't seem to be able to admit.

And really, comparing the rock to current times? We aren't talking about the attitude era, we are talking about now, so no, it doesn't destroy my argument. If the rock started this year and was currently the champ, than maybe you would have a point, but the rock came out during the time where things were much better for black wrestlers, the same can't be said for now.
 
Henry is basically a less-successful Chris Jericho: a guy who can lose match after match and still maintain the same status due to past accomplishments. He still beats other midcarders/lower midcarders and only loses to established names and rising talent. I really don't see your problem with Henry's booking.

Except Mark Henry hasn't beat other midcarders. Mark Henry hasn't beaten anyone since what, January? You can't have someone be an establish mid carder when they lose everytime, there's a trope known for this called the worf effect and that's exactly what's happening to Henry, while I can agree that if he's planning on retiring and such, he should be spending a good amount helping others get over, but he also still needs wins to maintain his status

Funny you bring up Truth's crazy period as being bad considering that's by far the most popular and entertaining he's ever been. He even got two ppv main events with the Little Jimmy stuff against JOHN CENA and THE ROCK. That gimmick ran its course and now's he's back to rapping R-Truth which is a big pile of "meh". Truth's work is decent and he's charismatic for sure, but guys like Swagger can wrestle circles around him and I'm not even a Jack Swagger fan. He's nothing more than a mid carder in my eyes and considering there are superior superstars also on that level, he's perfectly placed at the lower end of that spectrum.
Swagger wrestler circles around Truth? Lmao, I'm sorry but that's one of the funniest thing I've seen. Truth athleticism and in ring ability puts him way over Swagger, he not only has high flying manuevers but also impressive ground work as well. He always gets the crowd going when he wrestle unlikes swagger whose a complete bore, the crowd is near dead when he arrives, and this is somehow with R-Truth lack of mic and promos, that's how you know you have a charismatic person when he doesn't have any promos and yet he still gets the crowd hype when wrestling.

I've seen plenty of Woods' work in NXT and back when he was in TNA as Consequences Creed and while he's solid, he's an average high flier at best. There are guys on the roster that can do everything he can but better, and then some (Mysterio, Rollins, Kofi). Honestly, Tyson Kidd deserves the TV time that Woods gets every week.

Tyson Kidd deserves to job every week? Lol, that's not really going to help much, I don't think moving up from Tyson to Xavier is a stepping stone. But Xavier is still pretty green, something not associated with Tyson who people forget held the tag team championships for a bit of time, so it would make sense for Tyson to be at a higher stage than Xavier, some people develop faster than others and I do believe given time Xavier can be a greater presence, but at the same time, he shouldn't be used to job every week either.

The difference between Ziggler and Kofi is charisma. Ziggler can talk and has confidence on the mic while Kofi's promos always come off as awkward to me. That's why Ziggler is more over than he is.

Lmao, I have to disagree with this one. Ziggler is absolutely horrid on the mic, top down terrible. Both of them in my eyes are at the same pedigree, fantastic in ring abililties as well as in ring charisma, (Ziggler with explosive moves and Kofi with in ring theatrics) but both absolutely garbage at promos lol. But both are technically jobbers at the moment, it's just that people seem to be willing to accept kofi's jobbing but get super upset at ziggler jobbing, that's my main issue.

Once again, that kind of booking is not exclusive to Big E. It's happened to numerous midcard champs in recent years. Hell, the guy that beat him, Bad News Barrett, suffered the same exact fate during and after his previous IC title run a year ago. It took a hiatus, a new name and a new gimmick for Barrett to get over his crap booking and Big E may need to overhaul his current character which is....he's big and strong. That's my nice way of saying he's bland - and that's coming from a Big E fan.

Definitely not this case, no mid card champion has lost every single match on raw/smackdown for the past 3 months before losing the belt and THAN continue to losing afterwards. Definitely not barrett. Barrett was a successful champion until his lost, and than "after" his lost is when he started to job out. He wasn't thrown under the bus for 3 months straight before his in eventual lost.

Truth is, none of these guys other than maybe Big E need to be elevated higher than they are. It's not because they're black, but frankly because they either lack the in-ring talent, charisma, or are simply too old to be anything more. If it makes you feel better, there are plenty of non-black superstars in the same boat (Swagger, Big Show, Curtis Axel).

Once again I disagree with this. I definitely think R-Truth can be Usa Championship, if Kofi doesn't get WWE gold before his retirement even though Dolph did, it would be a crime, and Big E has future world heavy championship written all over him. But Reigns is getting a solid push, not because of his in ring abilities because of creative booking, and none of these wrestlers are going to survive when creative booking wants to keep the boots on their neck, and that's the primary problem.


Edit: I forgot about Titus O'Neil, another classic jobber who deserves much more than he's getting.
 
There's so many things wrong with this post I don't know where to start.

I never stated that the only thing Vince Mcmahon sees is green, if somehow a black wrestler even with all the crap they get put through somehow was super popular, they might bring him to the top, but than again they might not. Look at what happened Santino a few years ago, a guy who arguably held the loudest pops in the industry. Did he reach the top? No, so creative design and writing still trumps all. If it wasn't for bryan being a constant draws in pops, he would be in the mid card slot with everyone else. You underestimate the amount of power creative design actually has.

It's not just the swing that built him up, it was also how writing book him, when placed on the real americans, they were given a slow but steady build up which continues to today. Big E on the other hand got build up really quickly and than just dropped when suddenly all black wrestlers began to job, (around the february time frame) Big E was given horrible booking so it makes sense how he wasn't able to get over with the crowd, seeing as he was losing almost all of his matches since february, no mike time, etc

Yes but Jericho was also able to reach WWE gold, Ziggler, someone in the same boat, was also someone who reached WWE gold. Where's kofi's gold? Hell, even ziggler is starting to get back into strides, Kofi isn't even mid card even more so I'm not even sure why you are referring to him as mid card, he's low card now, again, he's jobbing to 3mb. let me repeat that 3mb.

I'm not able to look at things subjectively? You haven't agreed with one possible aspect that the wwe might be holding back black wrestlers, and yet I'm not looking at these things subjectively? Sorry, but no. I have at least agreed with Mark Henry's fate. I can see why he has been used in enhancement talent with him being towards the last years of his career possibly. With that said, you are completely incorrect on calling me racist, not just in your lack of understanding in terms of the meaning behind the word racist but also incorrect labeling of thinking I don't think some white wrestlers are better than black, as that's completely untrue. But at the same time, I can also admit that certain black wrestlers are at the same level or better than certain white wrestlers getting a push, something you don't seem to be able to admit.

And really, comparing the rock to current times? We aren't talking about the attitude era, we are talking about now, so no, it doesn't destroy my argument. If the rock started this year and was currently the champ, than maybe you would have a point, but the rock came out during the time where things were much better for different ethnicities, the same can't be said for now.

Rock was champion in 2013. What is your definition of current?

What crap specifically are black wrestlers getting put through that white wrestlers are not? Please tell me specific things. You have not listed one.

Bryan tanked ratings his first time around. Tanked them. That is why he wasn't viewed as a top guy. But with his popularity, they were willing to wait a bit and try again. Him getting another shot was by design, how soon was not.

Writing does not trump all. WWE can push some guy they want to get over but he just won't (Del Rio is a great example of this). WWE cannot artificially create a sustainable top guy. In order to be a top guy, you have to take whatever is given to you and make it good. Or really you just have to find a way to connect with the fans.

Marella. Really? He was popular for a month. One month. He quickly went right back to his regular spot.

Cesaro was on a nothing tag team with Swagger. He wasn't built up at all until the swing. Once that started happening, the crowd started reacting. They wanted to see Cesaro swing people. The WWE started giving him more time and eventually ripped him from Swagger due to the crowd getting more and more into him.

What is the difference between Barrett's reign from last year and Big E's from this year? Also it was Mania time. During that, only the top talent get focused on while everyone else gets pushed aside. Duh he wasn't able to get over if he wasn't on TV. My point was, to steal from JR, Cesaro maximized his minutes. Big E will have another shot eventually. Just be patient. A lot of booking that happened to him happened to other midcarders as well. His story is not unique, especially in modern day WWE.

Kingston wasn't able to reach the next level due to his horrid mic skills (they were just awful, which is a shame really as this guy had all the in ring stuff figured out). Jericho was a next level guy due to having both wrestling ability and tremendous mic skills.

Losing to 3MB shows the beauty of a guy like Kingston. He can lose to them and next week come out and win a midcard belt and no one would bat an eye. Again, we just got off Mania season, a lot of guys get their TV time diminished around this time.

I haven't agreed with you because you are wrong. How is that hard to understand?
 
Rock was champion in 2013. What is your definition of current?
The rock also came out during a time where blacks were much more successful. For example, if Bobby Lashley came back to wrestling in WWE, I can see him being a possible champion, why? Because his prestige with the fans would trump the inherit bias that WWE creative had towards black wrestlers. As someone said, money trumps all towards a certain extent. But new wrestlers won't be able to reach the same prestige as their predecessors would as creative writing are working hard to keep the boot on their neck.

What crap specifically are black wrestlers getting put through that white wrestlers are not? Please tell me specific things. You have not listed one.
It's simple really. For every white wrestler that's jobbing, you have a white wrestler that's successful. For every ziggler, you have a cesaro,
for every sandow, you have a rollins, as such they aren't the same. Because you have white wrestlers who are jobbing, but you also have white wrestlers who are successful. With black wrestlers, every single one is jobbing. Let me repeat that, every single black wrestler is jobbing. There's no balance, and that's the problem. Nobody is pushing Titus O'neil, or Kofi etc etc They are all placed as second class wrestlers and no black wrestler creatively is being successful. That's the difference between the two.

Bryan tanked ratings his first time around. Tanked them. That is why he wasn't viewed as a top guy. But with his popularity, they were willing to wait a bit and try again. Him getting another shot was by design, how soon was not.
But that's primarily because byran was established as a heel, let's be honest, his heel persona isn't really that impressive, it was really the yes gimmick that somehow won him over, because even I have to admit his mic skills is subpar.

Writing does not trump all. WWE can push some guy they want to get over but he just won't (Del Rio is a great example of this). WWE cannot artificially create a sustainable top guy. In order to be a top guy, you have to take whatever is given to you and make it good. Or really you just have to find a way to connect with the fans.

Yes but Del Rio has also held 4 world championships, that's the difference. I would much rather take Del Rio's spot whose constantly given chance after chance to shine and have creative booking, than someone like Big E who was getting pooped on by writing for 3 months straight until his eventual demise.

Marella. Really? He was popular for a month. One month. He quickly went right back to his regular spot.

Santino has always been popular, he's just not popular with the IWC because he's a comedy character. But he easily have some of the best mic skills in the game and charisma up the wazoo. Let me just post the video of Santino winning, literally they had a daniel bryan moment on their hands. Why they gave it up was because he didn't fit the bill that the WWE wanted.

http://youtu.be/2BPvNZXyBw0

[YOUTUBE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2BPvNZXyBw0[/YOUTUBE]

Cesaro was on a nothing tag team with Swagger. He wasn't built up at all until the swing. Once that started happening, the crowd started reacting. They wanted to see Cesaro swing people. The WWE started giving him more time and eventually ripped him from Swagger due to the crowd getting more and more into him.
But while the tag team wasn't in the running for wwe tag championship, they weren't losing every match for the past 3 months like every single black wwe superstar either. They were still built up enough to where they win some and lose some, the same cannot be said for any black wrestler at the moment. They all have had a several month losing streak.

What is the difference between Barrett's reign from last year and Big E's from this year? Also it was Mania time. During that, only the top talent get focused on while everyone else gets pushed aside. Duh he wasn't able to get over if he wasn't on TV. My point was, to steal from JR, Cesaro maximized his minutes. Big E will have another shot eventually. Just be patient. A lot of booking that happened to him happened to other midcarders as well. His story is not unique, especially in modern day WWE.

Barrett had creative writing behind him until he lost the belt. He didn't lose every match for the past 3 months on raw/smackdown before losing the belt. He had actual promo's, something that wasn't given to Big E, hell, he BNB actually got to wrestler on Raw/Smackdown, while Big E barely got to wrestle on raw/smackdown and when he did wrestle, he lost. Most of the fans complaints were that Big E just seem to disappear. Whose fault is that? The writers, if big E was actually on raw/smackdown, he would still be in the minds of most fan and wouldn't be in this craphole right now.

Kingston wasn't able to reach the next level due to his horrid mic skills (they were just awful, which is a shame really as this guy had all the in ring stuff figured out). Jericho was a next level guy due to having both wrestling ability and tremendous mic skills.
LMAO, Kofi mic skills is atrocious. Straight garbage. But, let's not pretend that you need great mic skills to be a wwe champion. Freakin swagger was wwe champion and he his mic skills is even worse than Kofi. Ziggler mic skills is on the same level as Kofi, and he still won the belt.

Losing to 3MB shows the beauty of a guy like Kingston. He can lose to them and next week come out and win a midcard belt and no one would bat an eye. Again, we just got off Mania season, a lot of guys get their TV time diminished around this time.
Wait what? You know what's the biggest criticism I hear right now regarding Kofi? How he was able to beat Randy Orton last year and than suddenly lose to 3mb. So yes, people would bat an eye, it might not bother you, but a lot of people notice when you job, especially Kofi fans.

I haven't agreed with you because you are wrong. How is that hard to understand?

So than don't pretend that I'm the one not subjective when you're clearly the one not subjective. At least I can concede some points, your entire point isn't even to address issues, it's just to debate, so technically the only one here whose not looking at things subjectively, is you.
 
I don't know if its a RACE issue but look what happened to Dolph Ziggler. Going from WHC to being eliminated in a battle royal by a comedy jobber like Santino.

Do you realize how insulting that is ?
 
I held hope that perhaps they might do a turn around, and actually treat big e with importance. Instead, he loses.

Keep in mind, Big E lost at a PPV. Do you remember a man by the name of Bret Hart? He dropped the IC belt to The British Bulldog, that gave him the opportunity to step up to a level of higher status on the roster. I realize that the IC belt meant more back then, but you're suggesting that Big E has been written off of tv already. Big E hasn't been fired, it's too early to say what his loss at Extreme Rules means for his future.

So I have to say thank you WWE, I think Big E was the last straw that finally allowed for me to distance myself from the show.

Sarcastic "thank you"s, really? They didn't give Big E the Adrian Adonis treatment. I look at Big E like he's the next Scott Steiner, and I mean that in the nicest way. Scott Steiner became WCW World Champion (correct me if I'm wrong) fourteen years after his pro-wrestling debut at the age of 38. Big E debuted in 2009, he's only five years into his pro-wrestling career and he gets better every-time I see him.

I've been a major follower for years, but it seems like somehow Donald Sterling ended up being hired at the WWE as Black Wrestlers are clearly treated as second class wrestlers, and it's horrid.

Come on dude. I know everyone else has brought up this name, but there was a man named Dwayne Johnson who couldn't have ever been second class even if he wanted to be. I'm not saying that prejudice doesn't exist, I don't think that those within the WWE are as racist as Donald Sterling.

So when things may change, and they actually decide to treat someone with my skin color as actually important, I might start watching again, but the WWE has finally gotten me to stop watching their programs.

Be proud of who you are. Whatever your Mother and Father gave to you, be proud of that. If you have someone like Donald Sterling offend you, recognize that a man like him will die bored and angry because even with all the luxuries in his life he still worries about being near African Americans.

If seeing someone of color on top of the game is what interests you, then that's your call to make in terms of what forms of entertainment you'll patronize. Peace.
 
Keep in mind, Big E lost at a PPV. Do you remember a man by the name of Bret Hart? He dropped the IC belt to The British Bulldog, that gave him the opportunity to step up to a level of higher status on the roster. I realize that the IC belt meant more back then, but you're suggesting that Big E has been written off of tv already. Big E hasn't been fired, it's too early to say what his loss at Extreme Rules means for his future.



Sarcastic "thank you"s, really? They didn't give Big E the Adrian Adonis treatment. I look at Big E like he's the next Scott Steiner, and I mean that in the nicest way. Scott Steiner became WCW World Champion (correct me if I'm wrong) fourteen years after his pro-wrestling debut at the age of 38. Big E debuted in 2009, he's only five years into his pro-wrestling career and he gets better every-time I see him.



Come on dude. I know everyone else has brought up this name, but there was a man named Dwayne Johnson who couldn't have ever been second class even if he wanted to be. I'm not saying that prejudice doesn't exist, I don't think that those within the WWE are as racist as Donald Sterling.



Be proud of who you are. Whatever your Mother and Father gave to you, be proud of that. If you have someone like Donald Sterling offend you, recognize that a man like him will die bored and angry because even with all the luxuries in his life he still worries about being near African Americans.

If seeing someone of color on top of the game is what interests you, then that's your call to make in terms of what forms of entertainment you'll patronize. Peace.

Wow, I really appreciate this post. It at least seems like you can somewhat understand where I'm coming from, even though you may not agree with me. I definitely appreciate it.

Just to be clear, I definitely don't enjoy this. I've been a huge fan of the WWE since I was a kid, and even though a lot of my friends left wrestling a long time ago, I stayed around. This may sound like an overblown statement but in some cases WWE changed my life. Before WWE, I was a very introverted person and to myself, but I remember watching the rock for the first time as a kid and be like, wow, I want to be like that, and now I'm one of the most extraverted people I know lol.

And believe me, if it was just what was going on with Big E, no way would I be leaving. But it's the fact that every single black male wrestler is jobbing, every single one has been losing almost every match since the beginning 2014, and wait until you see smackdown. Let me just say that every single black wrestler loses on smackdown, every single one. It's like they just ran the gauntlet on all black wrestlers there. And that's why I don't have hope for Big E, because it's not an issue that's just effecting big e, it's affecting all of them. It's just that big e was my last strand of hope, but seeing as how they are treating all other black wrestlers, I don't think they are going to treat big e any different.

But thanks again for the post, I appreciate it.
 
The rock also came out during a time where blacks were much more successful. For example, if Bobby Lashley came back to wrestling in WWE, I can see him being a possible champion, why? Because his prestige with the fans would trump the inherit bias that WWE creative had towards black wrestlers. As someone said, money trumps all towards a certain extent. But new wrestlers won't be able to reach the same prestige as their predecessors would as creative writing are working hard to keep the boot on their neck.

Uh...Wow. This cannot possibly make any sense to you.

It's simple really. For every white wrestler that's jobbing, you have a white wrestler that's successful. For every ziggler, you have a cesaro, for every sandow, you have a rollins, as such they aren't the same. Because you have white wrestlers who are jobbing, but you also have white wrestlers who are successful. With black wrestlers, every single one is jobbing. Let me repeat that, every single black wrestler is jobbing. There's no balance, and that's the problem. Nobody is pushing Titus O'neil, or Kofi etc etc They are all placed as second class wrestlers and no black wrestler creatively is being successful. That's the difference between the two.
Well Kofi will stay in his spot. A very important. He will stay there because of his own inability. The WWE has tried pushing him up the card a bunch of times but he never comes through. O'neil is around 35 or 36, not prime years to start a big push. He will be more of a midcard guy in the future. His age hurts his value a lot. Its not like these two deserve huge pushes.


But that's primarily because byran was established as a heel, let's be honest, his heel persona isn't really that impressive, it was really the yes gimmick that somehow won him over, because even I have to admit his mic skills is subpar.
Bryan was an established heel? As in after he had been a face for a year. Again, what is your definition of current?
Also that was definitely not the reason he tanked in ratings. No idea why you would think that.


Yes but Del Rio has also held 4 world championships, that's the difference. I would much rather take Del Rio's spot whose constantly given chance after chance to shine and have creative booking, than someone like Big E who was getting pooped on by writing for 3 months straight until his eventual demise.
World title was a midcard title by the time it got to Del Rio. Nothing impressive with that at all. He was big in Mexico, so they really wanted him to work. That's why they kept shoving him down our throats but Del Rio was never interesting. Big E however, is not big in Mexico. That's the difference here.



Santino has always been popular, he's just not popular with the IWC because he's a comedy character. But he easily have some of the best mic skills in the game and charisma up the wazoo. Let me just post the video of Santino winning, literally they had a daniel bryan moment on their hands. Why they gave it up was because he didn't fit the bill that the WWE wanted.
Being popular doesn't mean you are a draw. You don't seem to understand that.


But while the tag team wasn't in the running for wwe tag championship, they weren't losing every match for the past 3 months like every single black wwe superstar either. They were still built up enough to where they win some and lose some, the same cannot be said for any black wrestler at the moment. They all have had a several month losing streak.
This will be fun.
From February 4th to May 11th Big E had a record of 12 wins and 1 lose.
Cesaro had in the same time frame 2 wins and 8 loses.

Care to try again? Oh and I didn't cherry pick, I can go much deeper into this to show you have literally no clue what you are talking about.

Barrett had creative writing behind him until he lost the belt. He didn't lose every match for the past 3 months on raw/smackdown before losing the belt. He had actual promo's, something that wasn't given to Big E, hell, he BNB actually got to wrestler on Raw/Smackdown, while Big E barely got to wrestle on raw/smackdown and when he did wrestle, he lost. Most of the fans complaints were that Big E just seem to disappear. Whose fault is that? The writers, if big E was actually on raw/smackdown, he would still be in the minds of most fan and wouldn't be in this craphole right now.
Barrett did have any creative behind until he lost the belt. He fell off the face of the planet and lost nearly every match he had while champion. In fact he went 10 for 14 after beating Miz for the title on the Raw after mania last year.

LMAO, Kofi mic skills is atrocious. Straight garbage. But, let's not pretend that you need great mic skills to be a wwe champion. Freakin swagger was wwe champion and he his mic skills is even worse than Kofi. Ziggler mic skills is on the same level as Kofi, and he still won the belt.
Ziggler is way better than Kingston on the mic. They are not even close. Swagger was the world champ and not the WWE champion. He actually lost to Kingston clean during his reign (Swagger was booked as a midcarder even with the belt). Kingston has nothing that makes him standout and deserve to be anything higher than a midcarder.


Wait what? You know what's the biggest criticism I hear right now regarding Kofi? How he was able to beat Randy Orton last year and than suddenly lose to 3mb. So yes, people would bat an eye, it might not bother you, but a lot of people notice when you job, especially Kofi fans.
Kofi has been losing for years but is never hurt by them. That is where his value is. Don't be a mark. Most fans wont remember next week that he lost to 3MB. Also most don't remember he beat Orton last year. Most don't care. Kingston doesn't do anything that make people want to care.



So than don't pretend that I'm the one not subjective when you're clearly the one not subjective. At least I can concede some points, your entire point isn't even to address issues, it's just to debate, so technically the only one here whose not looking at things subjectively, is you.

Try again.
 
Yeah, it was about time for this thread to show up again.

I understand the OP's frustration, and the reasoning behind it. Watching wrestling, trying to find someone you can relate to, someone you can cheer for and feel like they are representing you, only to see them lose again and again...I can see how that would seem after a while. To suggest that this is for no other reason than racism, however, is simply ludicrous. Let's look at recent history...

Here is the WWE title history from 2010 through today:
John Cena
Batista
John Cena
Sheamus
Randy Orton
The Miz
John Cena
CM Punk
Rey Mysterio
John Cena
Alberto Del Rio
John Cena
Alberto Del Rio
CM Punk
The Rock
John Cena
Daniel Bryan
Randy Orton
Daniel Bryan
Randy Orton
Daniel Bryan

Who would you replace? How would you replace them? One could argue that Rey, ADR, and Miz didn't deserve their reigns, but let's look at those reigns.

Rey won a tournament for the "vacant' title and then held the title for about an hour before losing it to Cena. I suppose you could have plugged Kofi or Henry into that spot, but how does giving either man a one hour title reign serve them, or show them any respect. And don't for a minute think that reign would have been any longer: the man holding that belt was set to feud with the returning CM Punk, and the only person who could do that was the man he beat for the title, John Cena.

ADR served as a transitional champion, a way to move the belt between a face Cena and a face Punk without having to turn either man. This isn't a "Cena should turn heel thread," so I'll ignore that aspect, and again ask how does making any of the guys you mention a transitional champion fix the problem you suggest exist. Answer: it doesn't.

The Miz was at his peak when he cashed in on Randy Orton and won his title. He has never been as over as he was at that time, and likely never will be again. Who should have taken his spot though? Kofi? Kofi is the eternal face, he would have been feuding with an insanely popular at the time Randy Orton followed by John Cena. Kofi is a tremendous athlete, but there is no way that he carries the heel role convincingly in either of those feuds. Mark Henry could have done it, but I am fairly sure he was in the midst of a long injury recovery at the time.

Oh, and then there's the Rock. Y'know, the black guy that held the title from Royal Rumble through Wrestlemania last year. The guy that ended CM Punks 443 day reign as champion. The guy that defended the title at Wrestlemania despite the fact that it was his fifth or sixth match in almost a decade. But yeah, he doesn't count, because...well, I guess because he kills your theory.

Mark Henry is a tremendous hand, and I wouldn't be a bit mad to see him have a short title run before he hangs up the boots, but he fits nowhere within the current storylines. He would be the easiest to fit into a title program, though, given his history with Bryan and the WHC.

Kofi is outstanding, as I mentioned before, and I would love to see him get a title someday. His best chance was probably during his feud with Orton a few years ago, but his push was killed after he botched the finish of their first major match, a Raw Main Event that ended up blowing off the feud rather than kick-starting it. When they hand you the ball, you have to score the touchdown, or they are going to hand it to someone else. He fumbled at the line of scrimmage.

R-Truth was at his best when he had the Little Jimmy gimmick going. He was entertaining as hell, and got some Main Event matches out of it. Then the gimmick started getting popular, he started milking the invisible friend part and down-playing the brutality that went with the gimmick, and pretty soon he was tagging with Kofi in a comedy team. The gimmick got him over until it put him under.

Big E needs a gimmick. He still has a lot of time, he is young and has a long career ahead of him. I am a bit confused by the post where the OP says that Big E has been with WWE longer than Swagger. Swagger joined the E in 2006, Big E came in 2009. Swagger has been on the main roster since 07 or 08, Big E since 2012. Then I thought maybe he meant Kofi instead of Big E, but Kofi and Swagger are from the same developmental class and both hit the main roster around the same time, so I don't know what he was talking about.

Here's the thing...it's all well and good to want these guys to win the big one, or to have gold all the time, but don't you think that they should do more to deserve than just belong to a specific race? The guys that get over do it because they bring something to the table other than just their script. Creative didn't write the Yes Movement, that happened because of Bryan. Creative didn't write Orton's Viper gimmick, it was just something he started doing that caught on. The guys who get over are the guys who, no matter what creative gives them, are able to infuse the story with their own presence, their own style. The guys who get the top spots are the guys who can go out there, take the worst storyline possible, and still make their character shine in the midst of it.

I don't remember who said it, or I would give proper attribution, but someone mentioned in a post on another thread that when BNB beat Big E for the title, the fans weren't cheering for the heel, they were cheering for the guy with a gimmick. You want someone to get over, to become a champion? Don't look for them to do it because of race, or to be held back because of race. The guys who go out there, create a gimmick, and live that gimmick no matter what...those are the guys who get over. When your chosen ones start to do that, and still don't get the push, then you can cry discrimination. Until then, you're just wrong.
 
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Wow, I really appreciate this post. It at least seems like you can somewhat understand where I'm coming from, even though you may not agree with me. I definitely appreciate it.

I just want to say; I'm not denying that there's slight amounts of racism involved with modern pro-wrestling. I think we see the world differently because of an age gap, what I see today pales in comparison to what I was seeing when Ron Simmons debuted for the WWF.

Just to be clear, I definitely don't enjoy this. I've been a huge fan of the WWE since I was a kid, and even though a lot of my friends left wrestling a long time ago, I stayed around. This may sound like an overblown statement but in some cases WWE changed my life. Before WWE, I was a very introverted person and to myself, but I remember watching the rock for the first time as a kid and be like, wow, I want to be like that, and now I'm one of the most extraverted people I know lol.

The Rock is through and through one of the greatest entertainers in the history of pro-wrestling. I think that his biggest advantage was the fact that he was a third-generation pro-wrestler and through that had relations with the beloved Anoa'i family. We know now what the end result of Vince's stalwart faith in The Rock was, Dwayne Johnson is money no matter where he goes now. My point is that certain things transcend race, heritage and loyalty go a long way with a pro-wrestling promoter.

And believe me, if it was just what was going on with Big E, no way would I be leaving. But it's the fact that every single black male wrestler is jobbing, every single one has been losing almost every match since the beginning 2014, and wait until you see smackdown.

We're talking about pro-wrestling. I had to watch a performer as talented as Nova be relegated to the joke gimmick of Simon Dean and a performer as talented as Lance Storm be made into a laughing stock among laughing stocks. Jobbing doesn't mean outright burial like the examples I just gave, I don't see Kofi or Big E going away anytime soon.

Let me just say that every single black wrestler loses on smackdown, every single one. It's like they just ran the gauntlet on all black wrestlers there. And that's why I don't have hope for Big E, because it's not an issue that's just effecting big e, it's affecting all of them. It's just that big e was my last strand of hope, but seeing as how they are treating all other black wrestlers, I don't think they are going to treat big e any different.

I can't give too much input on the point about Smackdown because that program is really just a glorified clip show to me. Half of the show is flashbacks of Raw.

I'm a fan of Big E, and I haven't lost hope. I remember the time that a fan jumped the gate and attacked Randy Orton after Randy had just beaten Big E clean, Big E had to be held back because he was about to lose his mind and attack the fan. He seems to be a class act and if he keeps his heart in the right place he'll probably get to the upper card.

But thanks again for the post, I appreciate it.

As-salamu alaykum.
 

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