Lack of Black Champs

Look at a number of guys who WWE has let go.

Elijah Burke
MVP
Marcus Cor Von
Shad Gaspard

These guys can speak and can work in the ring (jury's still out on Gaspard). Yet they couldn't get a World Heavyweight title shot let alone a reign. SO the nonsense that there aren't any performers is lame to me. WWE is not interested in pushing these guys.
 
Look at a number of guys who WWE has let go.

Elijah Burke
MVP
Marcus Cor Von
Shad Gaspard

These guys can speak and can work in the ring (jury's still out on Gaspard). Yet they couldn't get a World Heavyweight title shot let alone a reign. SO the nonsense that there aren't any performers is lame to me. WWE is not interested in pushing these guys.

Dude, are you being serious? Shad Gaspard having a World Heavyweight Championship reign? Come on dude, get real, the only way Shad could ever become champion is on Smackdown vs RAW. Elijah Burke I think could have been good for WWE had they pushed him similar to TNA. MVP just started getting shit towards the end in WWE when he turned face and Cor Von, I don't know, I didn't like him.

Also, I don't think the problem is mainly with the lack of black champions per say but I think the problem lies with the ammount of black wrestlers who make it into WWE anyway. There just aren't that many black wrestlers and the chances of any wrestler making it 'big', no matter what their skin colour is, is very slim, so I think it just comes down to there not being a lot of black wrestlers in the first place becoming wrestlers compared to white guys becoming wrestlers.
 
One reason that there have only been a few black men to be a world champion is becuase there just hasn't been a really good black wrestler. By that I mean, none of them have really shined enough to be notice. Alot of them just do not have the look. The only black men who I can look at and see something great in is Bobby Lashley, The Rock, Shelton Benjamin, MVP, Booker T, and Bad News Brown. In fact, I believe that Bad News Brown could have been so much more than he was. I absolutely loved Bad News Brown's in ring wrestling. Bobby Lashley definitely could have gone far in his career if he had stayed in the business. Booker T accomplished alot, but he never won the WWE title. MVP left too early and he was screwed later in his career for some reason. Shelton Benjamin should have accomplished alot more than he did. He was and still is an amazing wrestler and can put on a great match with anyone. The Rock is the black man who accomplished everything there was to accomplish. The Rock is without a doubt the most successful black man in the history of pro-wrestling if you ask me.

Anyway, I guess we could use some black champions sometime in the future. I do not think that it has anything to do with racism. The wrestler simply has to impress the people and the company. They have to look great. As far as today's black wrestlers are concerned, I could see Kofi Kingston and Ezekiel Jackson being big stars down the line. I could see Jackson winning the WHC and I fully support him.
 
Yeah i got to agree with SlyFox. The fan base is mostly white and how often do you see a good black wrestler that deserves the world title.
 
Dude, are you being serious? Shad Gaspard having a World Heavyweight Championship reign? Come on dude, get real, the only way Shad could ever become champion is on Smackdown vs RAW. Elijah Burke I think could have been good for WWE had they pushed him similar to TNA. MVP just started getting shit towards the end in WWE when he turned face and Cor Von, I don't know, I didn't like him.

Also, I don't think the problem is mainly with the lack of black champions per say but I think the problem lies with the ammount of black wrestlers who make it into WWE anyway. There just aren't that many black wrestlers and the chances of any wrestler making it 'big', no matter what their skin colour is, is very slim, so I think it just comes down to there not being a lot of black wrestlers in the first place becoming wrestlers compared to white guys becoming wrestlers.

Let me say this. Shad Gaspard didn't show me anything that would make me say he's heavyweight championship material. That being said, Vince split up Cryme Time, a very popular team that hadn't even gotten one title reign. He had plans for him, because he liked Shad's size. Shad would've been better off as the tag team and give them a few title reigns, Vince or whoever felt that it was worth splitting them up, so that has me thinking he had some plans for him as a singles competitor. Besides Shad wouldn't be the worst possible heavyweight champion they've ever had, with work and training maybe he would've improved, but I do agree with your skepticism about him as a performer as he was at the time of the release. Let me also say there are plenty of performers white, asian etc. who could be given a lot more than they have. But the topic is about black performers and that's what we're focusing on.

As far as numbers are concerned, there aren't as many but there are a lot more african american performers than most realize. They're in the indies, or lesser known promotions who never get the shots at bigger promotions the way other performers do. I know it's easy to second guess and everything, but when you see performers who are popular and you think the timing is right, they go back to the same boring old roster of title holders or people that just come out of left field who can neither talk or work in the ring but are given every amount of help to get there. And if you look at some of the guys who get titles and those who aren't even looked at (not just the Heavyweight title, but lower card ones as well), there are plenty of opportunities that are often missed. The Rock didn't just show up and became the champ, they developed him, they created an image that he could portray and wrote for him with an intention to make him a success. I'm not saying every black performer (or any other race background for that matter) will be the Rock, but they could find some successful guys in other backgrounds and it seems like the promotions aren't trying to think outside the box instead of keeping with the same old type of performer.
 
Why doesn't anyone ever make a thread about the lack of Scottish, Asian, Australian, etc, champions?

1. Does the low number of black World Champions surprise you? Or do you not see many black wrestlers in history deserving a world title?
I didn't see many black wrestlers deserving of a title. This is not because they are black but because he couldn't draw, wrestle, have any mic skills, get a crowd reaction, etc. If you can make the WWE a lot of money (most of the time) you will be a main eventer/upper-carder and have a very good chance of being the champ at least once. It is never a matter of race or anything like that, it's about money.

2. Do you consider the ECW Championship during it's time in WWE as a legit World Championship?
No, I thought it was just a title for people who weren't good enough to be an actual world champ, but were good enough for some sort of consulation prize.

3. And finally, which black wrestlers do you think should be a world champion? That goes for past, present, and future.
Bobby Lashley - Would have been champ at least once if he stayed. No doubt.
Kofi - If can go back to being interesting (the way he was in the Orton feud) then he should be champ one day.
Shelton - Maybe if he actually gave a fuck and tried to improve in any of the ten years he was there, then maybe he could have been champ.
Zeke - I'm still kind of on the fence about him. He has the look but we have not gotten a good look at his mic skills and wrestling yet.
Burke - I still don't know what happened with him.
MVP - Probably could have been if he was younger (He is either 36 now or he debuted at 36, I can't remember). Also his momentum totally evaporated a little after being drafted to Raw.
Ahemd Johnson - I can barely remember this guy but I think he was supposed to be a long term main event guy but got injured all the time.
Otunga - If he can actually learn how to wrestle (I think it's his first or second year) then he can/should be a world champ.

There are probably some more that I can't remember right now. This is NOT because the WWE or Vince are racist, it is because a lot of the black wrestlers were/are quite frankly not good enough to be a world champ. Stone Cold didn't win the title because he was white, he won it because he was that good. Shad Gaspard didn't win the title because he wasn't good enough (from the stuff I read on him, he is about as good as David Otunga is in the ring and never got better).

PS - BS on whoever (I think slyfox) said black wrestlers are not becoming champ because of the fanbase being mostly white. If the champ was based on the fanbase one of the champs would almost always be Mexican. Vince sees money not color.
Vince = Mr. Krabs
 
We choose to ignore a very important factors that exist in this business and others. Those performers who can draw, don't just wake up and instantly become money magnets. People were chanting the Rock sucks before he became arguably the biggest draw in the history of the business. There was a lot of work done, to create the Rock, Hulk Hogan, Randy Savage, Ted Dibiase, Roddy Piper, Steve Austin, Cena - the character, how to sell him, how to write for him, how to develop merchandise for them, how to create a marketable image, how to sell that image and so on. These guys bring a lot to the table, but there's a lot done to develop them into stars.

The other problem is we ignore the politics that exists behind the scenes. It isn't bullshit, it's not made up, it's reality. There's no reason on Earth that Kingston should be sent packing to SD, to job for other lesser tenured performers, because of one mistake in the ring against one top level performer. If there is another reason any one knows about for why he was sent to SD, I'd love to hear it but I haven't heard anything else. He gets the crowd reaction, he would sell merchandise if he were given some time to talk and they actually did something to develop him into a star. I mean look, Carlito, MVP, Burke, could've been IC champs tag title champs at the very least, maybe even higher, they can all talk and they can work. They fight a battle just to make suggestions on how to improve their character and develop them into possible stars.


JYD, was a huge draw in some territories and was a champ in a number of promotions, so was Ernie Ladd, Tony Atlas with and without Tommy Rich was a big name as well in Georgia Championship Wrestling. There are others who were big and had been forgotten and were shut out of the conversation of actually getting a shot at the top position in the company. These guys had proven track records yet couldn't get any major development in WWE or WCW. In fact as already stated, very few have.

You don't have to be a champion to have a successful career in wrestling, and many performers black and white have had great careers without being in the main event or champion. My thing is if you have performers popular enough to be at the top spot or midcard or tag team champion, which WWE does and has had in the past, it seems a little short sighted not to be courageous enough to explore that as an option. Especially when many of the guys they choose to be champs are totally lacking. Sheamus, Batista, Khali, Orton aren't spectacular talents, yet they've held the belts. What made them better than MVP, Carlito, Burke or Bobby Lashley or Rodney Mack ? Kozlov & Marella, Slater and Gabriel, the Hart Dynasty, weren't any better than Cryme Time or MVP and Henry, yet they were tag team champs. We could make these cases for a number of other performers who are white, I'm just saying the arguement for this topic isn't as easy to dismiss (or support) as some might think.
 
@jacdnwarrior

No idea how to multi-quote so I will put his stuff in bold.

There's no reason on Earth that Kingston should be sent packing to SD, to job for other lesser tenured performers, because of one mistake in the ring against one top level performer.
That is not why (IMO). In my view, the whole feud with Orton was a huge mistake. The problem was this was his first big feud and it was against Raw's top heel, once it was over, what was left other than a title shot? But he really had no left to feud with the way they hot-shotted him. So I they moved him to Smackdown so they could restart fresh with him.

I mean look, Carlito, MVP, Burke, could've been IC champs tag title champs at the very least, maybe even higher, they can all talk and they can work.
Carlito was a total jackass. MVP was simply too old when he started, I think if he was younger he would have been a big star. Burke, I have no idea why he got fired.

Especially when many of the guys they choose to be champs are totally lacking. Sheamus, Batista, Khali, Orton aren't spectacular talents, yet they've held the belts. What made them better than MVP, Carlito, Burke or Bobby Lashley or Rodney Mack?
Bobby Lashley would have been a champ if he stayed. But I guess he has more fun getting his ass kicked in MMA. Khali is HUGE in India. HUGE. That is the sole reason he even got a title reign. Your telling me, Rodney Mack is better or equal to Orton :lmao:. I...:lmao:...That...:lmao:...:disappointed:

Kozlov & Marella, Slater and Gabriel, the Hart Dynasty, weren't any better than Cryme Time or MVP and Henry, yet they were tag team champs.
Actually MVP/Mark Henry were just a thrown together team because they had nothing else to do with them. Cryme Time might have gotten one if they hadn't got fired that one time, I think that might have kept them from winning one. Also it may be because Shad just sucked. They had to keep JTG in most of the match to hide Shad's suckness.
 
@therockiswwf

Kingston is shipped off of Raw to SD, which is viewed as the lesser of the two shows, by a number of higher ups there. They could have given him the heavyweight title on SD, they chose to stick in the midcard with the IC strap to put over DelRio who hasn't really shown he can gain a real response. And Kingston is still quite popular and it seems they aren't trying to capitalize on that.

I have no idea why Carlito is a jackass, so you got me there. They knew MVP's age when they got him, and no matter his age, he can talk on the mike and work in the ring. I mean I don't think he would be setting the guinness world records for age as a champ.

Bobby Lashley was granted his release, if I'm not mistaken. So what happened there ? Khali is a sloppy mess in the ring. I don't care how huge he is in India, he was a joke in any ring whether in India or North America. Mack is as good as Orton ? I'd say no, but he was better than Khali in that ring and on the mike and look what they did for Khali. My point is that some of the guys they have as champs aren't exactly the ideal selections either yet they worked with them and opened that level to these guys.

AS far as the tag teams are concerned. Shad wasn't great, he wasn't even good, but his team was popular enough to be the ones holding the belts and they wouldn't have had a problem. MVP and Henry were thrown together but they were well received. They threw together ShowMiz, JeriSho and while Jericho and Miz were entertaining, their decimating of their competitors did no favours for that divsion and they weren't helped by winning the tag belts as the other teams I mentioned might have been.

The only point I'm trying to make is there are black performers (and from other backgrounds) who they could've been developed into performers on the main event level, if they were really interested. Not every one can be champ but they could broaden their minds a bit more to introduce new variations to their audience.
 
@jacdnwarrior
I see your point on Kingston. Mine was more focused on why he got moved to Smackdown (not saying I'm right). Smackdown is viewed as the B show, but I don't think you can really change that and its not like its a huge demotion. Though Kofi may get better pops than Del Rio, the WWE needs that big mexican superstar (I wonder if they knew they would get Mistico, if Del Rio would be as big as he is right now?). I think they will eventually try to make Kofi big but I don't see it happening soon.

A lot of reports on Carlito say he was just a giant ass and really lazy. I know they knew his age, but I thinkthings with him would have went a lot better if you was just a little younger. Once he lost his momentum, it just never came back.

Bobby Lashley wanted to go do MMA, which is why he was released. Yes, Khali is AWFUL but since he is huge in India, a lot of money is made off of him. From stuff I read, that is the only reason why he won the title. Yes this is America, but the WWE doesnt just make money from here.

MVP/Henry could of had a run but they weren't anything special. Cryme Time was popular enough but in my view Shad held them back.

Barrett, Drew and Sheamus are broadening their view. They just can't push someone based on color, they have to have something special.
 
I'm asking them to make better use of the performers they have. If you are using Rey, DelRio and Khali to get the Mexican and Indian audience, you can't then say they shouldn't push performers based on their color. They already are. If these guys are over with the crowd white, black or whatever use them. I've seen many black performers who were close to the complete package as you could ask for and would have been accepted by a wider audience if they tried to work with that performer to improve his odds. But I've talked too much on this, later guys.
 
A question on Kofi - does nobody think he needs a desperate image overhaul to be a credible contender? It's common knowledge now that he is African, not Jamaican and yet he is still playing the affable dreadlocked reggae fan in Caribbean styled ring wear:shrug:

Now, I'm not suggesting he goes all Nation of Domination or Kamala here. Nor am I suggesting a heel turn. A rounding of the bad ass that decimated Randy Orton's car should be sufficient. If you cannot lend credibility to a character, it is hard to emotionally back them to the 'Big Gold Belt'.
 
I'm asking them to make better use of the performers they have. If you are using Rey, DelRio and Khali to get the Mexican and Indian audience, you can't then say they shouldn't push performers based on their color. They already are. If these guys are over with the crowd white, black or whatever use them. I've seen many black performers who were close to the complete package as you could ask for and would have been accepted by a wider audience if they tried to work with that performer to improve his odds. But I've talked too much on this, later guys.
Don't go now we were just getting to the fun part =(

Nationality is not the same as color. Khali could be a black Indian, but what would they push him as? As an Indian. The Rock was pushed as a... samoan. There is no black nationality, hence I wouldn't push performers based on skin. Mexican and Indian are not colors. Yes maybe they don't deserve to get pushed because of the nationality but the money that they make from them is probably at Cena level here. But no one should ever (well not counting when racism was widespread) be pushed based on color. That in itself would be racist.
 
@jacdnwarrior

Did I say it was okay, no. I was saying why they were pushed like that and why black people wouldn't be pushed like them. As I said, black people are not a nationality, they are a race. I feel like I sound racist. I was saying a black person wouldn't make the WWE more money by having him win a title and you asked me why Khali was pushed and I answered that (not that Its right). To be honest, the WWE hasn't had a lot of black wrestlers that were worthy of being a world champ.
 
@jacdnwarrior

Did I say it was okay, no. I was saying why they were pushed like that and why black people wouldn't be pushed like them. As I said, black people are not a nationality, they are a race. I feel like I sound racist. I was saying a black person wouldn't make the WWE more money by having him win a title and you asked me why Khali was pushed and I answered that (not that Its right). To be honest, the WWE hasn't had a lot of black wrestlers that were worthy of being a world champ.

Going back to your previous post. The Rock wasn't pushed as a Samoan. They clearly spoke about his grandfather High Chief Peter Maivia and his father Rocky Johnson and they showed pictures of before he was about to debut. Also they put him in a stable of black performers, called the Nation of Domination. As far as WWE not having a lot of black wrestlers worthy of being world champ that would be hard to agree or disagree with. Who knows what any performer will be capable of if they don't invest that time to develop a performer into a champion. No one knew what they had with the Rock, Austin in the beginning. It took a lot of work and a lot of development to make them what and who they are.
 
Going back to your previous post. The Rock wasn't pushed as a Samoan. They clearly spoke about his grandfather High Chief Peter Maivia and his father Rocky Johnson and they showed pictures of before he was about to debut. Also they put him in a stable of black performers, called the Nation of Domination. As far as WWE not having a lot of black wrestlers worthy of being world champ that would be hard to agree or disagree with. Who knows what any performer will be capable of if they don't invest that time to develop a performer into a champion. No one knew what they had with the Rock, Austin in the beginning. It took a lot of work and a lot of development to make them what and who they are.

I meant more during his time (not counting his early days) there was more focus on him being Samoan (IMO). Rocky Johnson had more focus on him being black since he and Tony Atlas (I think it was Atlas) were the first black people to win a title. Yes, it is unfair to say that there were not many black wrestlers that deserved the title but I was more judging by what they were. Rock and Austin had something that made them great and it wasn't just the WWE, a lot of it was themselves.
 
IMO if hispanic wrestlers like Rey Mysterio, Eddie Guerrero and Alberto Del Rio are good enough to win world titles and royal rumbIes then a wrestler with black ancestry can do the same. I keep reading people saying the Wwe Universe will not accept a black wrestler as the or world champion, well I think that is a load of crock.Back in oct 2006, I attened a wwe Smakdowo show here in my home city of Wichita, Ks and guess what Bobby Lashley got the biggest ovation that night and the crowd was mostly whites. So white people will cheer for a black person.Also I keep hearing people say The Rock leaned more to his Samoan ancestry more then his black half and I have to ask how do you figure?I am not trying to stereotype but I never saw The Rock come out in traditional Samoan attire or was he in a stereotypical Samoan gimmick like Umaga, Rikishi and the majority of Samoan wrestlers were put into. Just because The Rock is not a walking black or Samoan stereotype, does not mean he leans more to one side over another.
 
IMO if hispanic wrestlers like Rey Mysterio, Eddie Guerrero and Alberto Del Rio are good enough to win world titles and royal rumbIes then a wrestler with black ancestry can do the same. I keep reading people saying the Wwe Universe will not accept a black wrestler as the or world champion, well I think that is a load of crock.Back in oct 2006, I attened a wwe Smakdowo show here in my home city of Wichita, Ks and guess what Bobby Lashley got the biggest ovation that night and the crowd was mostly whites. So white people will cheer for a black person.Also I keep hearing people say The Rock leaned more to his Samoan ancestry more then his black half and I have to ask how do you figure?I am not trying to stereotype but I never saw The Rock come out in traditional Samoan attire or was he in a stereotypical Samoan gimmick like Umaga, Rikishi and the majority of Samoan wrestlers were put into. Just because The Rock is not a walking black or Samoan stereotype, does not mean he leans more to one side over another.

Mexican is a nationality, black is not. I didn't say that black people couldn't I was more answering another guy asking why those guys got pushed. I agree with you about it being BS that the fans wouldn't accept a black guy. The Rock didn't have a major focus on him being black or Samoan, they just referenced to the fact he was Samoan more than him being black. They did that because he is like the cousin of ten other wrestlers. One being Rikishi.
 
Anyone who judges anyone by race is by definition a racist. What do you guys want, racial quotas? That's as racist as you can get. BTW why aren't you counting Asian champions, Samoan, champions? American Indian champions? Irish Champions? Or any other race?

Again, this tread was made solely to make racist political statements and should have been closed right away.
 
there have been a few guys over the years who could have possibly had runs at titles, but its always extenuating circumstances that end up halting or shutting down those possibilities.

Ahmed i think would have been a champ if he stepped up his promo work and was in consistently better shape..(at least it felt like) the fans really liked him and he was very much over before he started his collapse to nothingness and obesity.

Other guys like Shelton or Burke were fringe stars who i think if they showed enough initiative outside of just the wrestling element(esp Shelton) they could have been stars. I still think Burke is a legit star and if he came back and furthered his current gimmick he could be a top heel(eventually a face in the same vein as Rocky) and win a title. would it be believable? moreso than if they just gave it to someone random.

Also i think Kofi could have a run but he has alot of work to do. his mechanics are always a split second off and it leads to alot of botches, nothing too huge but ive noticed it numerous times and on top of that he is just too plain and small to be a real champ.

the fans really like him especially the kids tho so if they built him up either like HBK's childhood dream story or make him heel where he'd cheat to win(my idea was always KOTR and branding him King Kofi, perfect heel launchpad). he is young and still has a bright and long future and i hope Vince and creative believe in him and build him further.

I think the main problem is lack of quality black wrestlers. Im black myself so i always notice if im outnumbered and its always been that way and i cant be mad at it because it literally is what it is. But with the low amount of black wrestlers on the roster, maybe 1 or 2 out of 10 really had a championship-caliber future. Guys like Mabel should have never had a belt and guys like Ron Simmons should always be in contention for one.

It comes down to their personal character and also what creative has for them. if a black wrestler emerged that not only embodied the physical aspects of what a champion was but also was able to put it all into words i think the crowd would have no problem latching onto it. especially if it was something new and not a ripoff or able to be too closely associated with something else(ie Black Lesnar). its all marketability and if a guy had all of those tools then add in a catch phrase or 3 and you have a superstar in the making.

someone like Ezekial Jackson has somewhat of the physical look, but his in-ring ability is below average and they dont book him in matches that really make him look THAT good. and then once you hear him talk its a wrap. His accent will always hold him back until he learns how to utilize it. when he talks he doesnt sound in the least bit scary but he's booked as some huge unbeatable guy. he needs ferocity in his voice but ultimately i think his accent and overall skills will always keep him a notch below Kozlov.

I never saw Lashley in wwe but his look was definitely champ-caliber. i can only base my opinions on him from his TNA stint recently and it was some of the most pathetic wrestling/promos/television ive ever seen. i cant put all the blame on him of course, but he had alot of "deer in headlights" facial expressions and facially wasnt able to put himself across as the guy they billed him as. he's this big tough guy who is apparently a heel but he had a nice guy smile on that didnt have the evil look to it like when Del Rio smiles or Sid. he just looked like some happy go lucky muscle head they were putting a belt on and he had NOOOO promo ability at all to the point his wife talked for him..that was probably the only positive.

I dont find the "no black fans no champion" idea to be racist, its true to a degree and the baseball analogy sums it up perfectly. i watched baseball as a kid because we had guys like Frank Thomas, Ken Griffey, Jr, and Mo Vaughn among others to look up to but now its all guys who dont look/sound like me and its hard to be able to watch it beyond the surface of it and really buy into it.

When i heard wwe finally gave The Rock(then Booker T) the titles i was happy for them because they both deserved it(especially all the work Booker put in) but when it comes down to it its beyond their skin and its all in the character, timing, and crowd reaction. and i would absolutely DETEST if they just gave a random black guy the belt just to run with it. if JTG won ANY title in his current gimmick i might stop watching wrestling again.

im sure i forgot a few things but this post has reached novel status lol
 
I think I've read enough of this thread to try to make a statement or point that hasn't been touched on enough.

The audience over the course of the many decades of wrestling has been predominantly middle to lower class white. It has been and still is designed to appeal to the common folk mass. This is going to lead to predominantly white champions over much of that history.

As WWE/F, ECW and WCW became more prominent, evidence of a wider demographic has been shown. I watched NWA more than the WWF when I was a kid and for a Ron Simmons and Great Muta to hold the NWA titles at that time goes a long way to make the point others have made about the right person for the spot in a given situation, as we are talking about a southern promotion in the NWA/WCW. But as I said, much of this is due to their being a wider demographic being shown.

As american wrestling is still in many ways still catering to the audience I mentioned minority stars are getting a lot more airtime and in ring work on a much larger scale than was the case than just a few decades ago. The integration in this case is a slow process and the awareness of a larger minority audience is just as slow. Mexico is much closer to us than Japan and we know wrestling is very well respected and represented as a sport in both countries, but the influx of Hispanic performers has overall far outshines the amount of Asian talent to hit american wrestling in any promotion. It's because Lucha Libre is a far greater direct influence here than the stiff Japanese pure wrestling in terms of Hispanic vs. Asian fans. That means it would take less time for there to be more Hispanic wrestlers than Japanese ones here in the states and certainly a quicker turnaround for Hispanic champions.

How does this relate to the topic you might ask?

We shouldn't be asking the question purely about just black champions. It is in and of itself polarizing, and it is equally inevitable, but it doesn't reflect the greater issue which is minority performers and consequently minority champions. You want unfair? Name 10 Japanese performers that have both performed in the WWE, ECW, WCW, or TNA that have had the opportunities that many other hispanic, or black performers have had in terms of airtime, titles much less world championships. And japan is both where many performers from the states go to hone their craft against very talented and tough competition and come back to further solidify their place in the business. And yet I can count on 1 hand the number of Japanese world champs in any american wrestling.

Race is too easy a card to throw in terms of wrestling because it's a white dominated sport in America, the same as Japanese and Mexican wrestling is dominated by their respective ethnic types. Yes America is different in that many different races live here but how long has it taken for integration to really take hold in this country? Think of the differences in the past 4 or 5 decades in terms of opportunity for minorities here. and things are much better than they were, and yes have room to improve but are a world different than they were. how many times have the likes of Shelton Benjamin, MVP, Booker T, Kofi Kingston and others held titles? Answer, a hell of a lot more than JYD, Bad News Brown, Tony Atlas, and Rocky Johnson ever did.

As for black viewers, I submit to you there are far more than a given WWE or TNA audience will show. Just because they're not in the audience doesn't mean they're not watching. We could argue all day on exact numbers but the focus should be on the talent and who's able to take the next step in on the card. If a champion is a minority it should have no impact other than he's ready to be Champion or in the main event picture. These 2 items by the way are very separate from each other.

I mentioned both Ron Simmons and Great Muta above because they represent a change in how we had to perceive race in this sport. Muta is still an anomaly because of the infrequency of Japanese world Champs in America. And after Simmons we've had proportionately more black world champions. Not very many but Booker T has helped in that regard in huge amounts for his in ring talent and 6 title reigns. The Rock (who by the way regardless of his Samoan heritage has a 100% black father in Rocky Johnson. He's black, live with it) Is still setting the bar for mic skills and set the bar for the ability to put competitors over in the ring. R Truth as Ron Killings was given the ball as NWA-TNA champion and we've had a bevy of Mid-card champions that just 2 decades before would not have happened in such large number.

Does this mean we shouldn't deal with the issue of race in wrestling? No, but in all things moderation. Look to where we are compared to where we were. Then tell me this is all about just holding a given race down. Prejudice is still alive and breeding but it doesn't mean it's all residing in Titan Towers or somewhere in Florida.

And like all things, it will take time.

For the record, I am a 42 yr old black man from DC who's family is from NC. So please people stop trying to make this just about race. It's sickening.
 
I think I've read enough of this thread to try to make a statement or point that hasn't been touched on enough.

The audience over the course of the many decades of wrestling has been predominantly middle to lower class white. It has been and still is designed to appeal to the common folk mass. This is going to lead to predominantly white champions over much of that history.

As WWE/F, ECW and WCW became more prominent, evidence of a wider demographic has been shown. I watched NWA more than the WWF when I was a kid and for a Ron Simmons and Great Muta to hold the NWA titles at that time goes a long way to make the point others have made about the right person for the spot in a given situation, as we are talking about a southern promotion in the NWA/WCW. But as I said, much of this is due to their being a wider demographic being shown.

As american wrestling is still in many ways still catering to the audience I mentioned minority stars are getting a lot more airtime and in ring work on a much larger scale than was the case than just a few decades ago. The integration in this case is a slow process and the awareness of a larger minority audience is just as slow. Mexico is much closer to us than Japan and we know wrestling is very well respected and represented as a sport in both countries, but the influx of Hispanic performers has overall far outshines the amount of Asian talent to hit american wrestling in any promotion. It's because Lucha Libre is a far greater direct influence here than the stiff Japanese pure wrestling in terms of Hispanic vs. Asian fans. That means it would take less time for there to be more Hispanic wrestlers than Japanese ones here in the states and certainly a quicker turnaround for Hispanic champions.

How does this relate to the topic you might ask?

We shouldn't be asking the question purely about just black champions. It is in and of itself polarizing, and it is equally inevitable, but it doesn't reflect the greater issue which is minority performers and consequently minority champions. You want unfair? Name 10 Japanese performers that have both performed in the WWE, ECW, WCW, or TNA that have had the opportunities that many other hispanic, or black performers have had in terms of airtime, titles much less world championships. And japan is both where many performers from the states go to hone their craft against very talented and tough competition and come back to further solidify their place in the business. And yet I can count on 1 hand the number of Japanese world champs in any american wrestling.

Race is too easy a card to throw in terms of wrestling because it's a white dominated sport in America, the same as Japanese and Mexican wrestling is dominated by their respective ethnic types. Yes America is different in that many different races live here but how long has it taken for integration to really take hold in this country? Think of the differences in the past 4 or 5 decades in terms of opportunity for minorities here. and things are much better than they were, and yes have room to improve but are a world different than they were. how many times have the likes of Shelton Benjamin, MVP, Booker T, Kofi Kingston and others held titles? Answer, a hell of a lot more than JYD, Bad News Brown, Tony Atlas, and Rocky Johnson ever did.

As for black viewers, I submit to you there are far more than a given WWE or TNA audience will show. Just because they're not in the audience doesn't mean they're not watching. We could argue all day on exact numbers but the focus should be on the talent and who's able to take the next step in on the card. If a champion is a minority it should have no impact other than he's ready to be Champion or in the main event picture. These 2 items by the way are very separate from each other.

I mentioned both Ron Simmons and Great Muta above because they represent a change in how we had to perceive race in this sport. Muta is still an anomaly because of the infrequency of Japanese world Champs in America. And after Simmons we've had proportionately more black world champions. Not very many but Booker T has helped in that regard in huge amounts for his in ring talent and 6 title reigns. The Rock (who by the way regardless of his Samoan heritage has a 100% black father in Rocky Johnson. He's black, live with it) Is still setting the bar for mic skills and set the bar for the ability to put competitors over in the ring. R Truth as Ron Killings was given the ball as NWA-TNA champion and we've had a bevy of Mid-card champions that just 2 decades before would not have happened in such large number.

Does this mean we shouldn't deal with the issue of race in wrestling? No, but in all things moderation. Look to where we are compared to where we were. Then tell me this is all about just holding a given race down. Prejudice is still alive and breeding but it doesn't mean it's all residing in Titan Towers or somewhere in Florida.

And like all things, it will take time.

For the record, I am a 42 yr old black man from DC who's family is from NC. So please people stop trying to make this just about race. It's sickening.


Nice response.

Further, I'd say by far there aren't ANY "black" wrestlers in WWE deserving of the title as of now. Kofi is good for high spots, but indeed, still lacks the IT factor to be a HW champ. I'd of picked Elijah Burke, because of his charisma and match quality.

Ezekial Jackson could be a nice wrestler if he ditched the gimmick in which he screams like an idiot. Otunga needs lots of work, JTG doesn't do it for me. I'd of bet money that Lashley was definitely gonna be HW champ without doubt, but he left.

I skimmed through this thread and noticed mentionables like JYD and Bad News Brown; and whilst I'm not one to put someone down further than what their skills display, I'd say JYD was hands down one of the worst wrestlers with an offensive gimmick. Just my two cents as a newbie.
 
Before JYD hit the WWF, he was already a champion with a number of promotions including Stampede Wrestling. He was never a great wrestler, but he was very popular (in a number of regions), capable of working the crowd and doing some quality work as a heel champ. Of course, his drug use (according to authors, those who knew him), weight gain, killed what could have been a much greater career.

I've said it once, I'll say it a thousand times, for some one to become a credible champion that any one wants to embrace or hate, you have to do a lot of character development. The Rock was booed out of arenas before he became the people's champ, Austin had a crappy gimmick before Austin 3:16 took off. Triple H was a blue blood snob no one cared about it before the Game reached the popularity he sees now. Mick Foley was never viewed as the main eventer before his title run. Hogan was a heel before Hulkamania ran wild. So the IT factor is important, but it's one of many things not the defining thing that makes some one a champion an audience will pay to see. Tell me one superstar who didn't have some character development before he became big ?

Even fewer black performers get that opportunity even though, there are and were a number of performers who were loved and/or hated by the crowd, could work on the mike and work in the ring. Kingston is rarely allowed to talk and he jobs more often than not. How much is he given to really make a connection with the audience ? He was popular (and might still be ) popular with a wide range of fans irregardless of colour. MVP did great for a time on Smackdown, they put him on Raw to job to every one else. He makes some suggestions as to make his character more interesting he's turned down and he's later released. Burke is capable on the mike and in the ring and he is released, 2Cold Scorpio was there, they can't find anything for him. It's a consistent pattern, that is so blatant, it's impossible not to ask this question. What was so great about Sheamus, that warranted him getting 2 title reigns ? His mike ability ? His look ? His in-ring work. Batista while popular (thanks to a feud with Triple H) couldn't talk or work in the ring to save his life and was usually carried in terms of both aspects in any feud he was in. Swagger was a flop. So they'll make these steps with these guys but not take a gamble on any black wrestlers ? Black wrestlers are more likely to be released before they got the shot the above guys got or even work a match against a top tier performer. It's absolutely ridiculous. It's the 21st century for shits sake. If they won't take a risk now with such a crappy product when will they ? When will they stop looking for the same old tired view of what they want their champions to be and actually try a black performer at the head of the roster ?

That's sickening.
 
Before JYD hit the WWF, he was already a champion with a number of promotions including Stampede Wrestling. He was never a great wrestler, but he was very popular (in a number of regions), capable of working the crowd and doing some quality work as a heel champ. Of course, his drug use (according to authors, those who knew him), weight gain, killed what could have been a much greater career.

I've said it once, I'll say it a thousand times, for some one to become a credible champion that any one wants to embrace or hate, you have to do a lot of character development. The Rock was booed out of arenas before he became the people's champ, Austin had a crappy gimmick before Austin 3:16 took off. Triple H was a blue blood snob no one cared about it before the Game reached the popularity he sees now. Mick Foley was never viewed as the main eventer before his title run. Hogan was a heel before Hulkamania ran wild. So the IT factor is important, but it's one of many things not the defining thing that makes some one a champion an audience will pay to see. Tell me one superstar who didn't have some character development before he became big ?

Even fewer black performers get that opportunity even though, there are and were a number of performers who were loved and/or hated by the crowd, could work on the mike and work in the ring. Kingston is rarely allowed to talk and he jobs more often than not. How much is he given to really make a connection with the audience ? He was popular (and might still be ) popular with a wide range of fans irregardless of colour. MVP did great for a time on Smackdown, they put him on Raw to job to every one else. He makes some suggestions as to make his character more interesting he's turned down and he's later released. Burke is capable on the mike and in the ring and he is released, 2Cold Scorpio was there, they can't find anything for him. It's a consistent pattern, that is so blatant, it's impossible not to ask this question. What was so great about Sheamus, that warranted him getting 2 title reigns ? His mike ability ? His look ? His in-ring work. Batista while popular (thanks to a feud with Triple H) couldn't talk or work in the ring to save his life and was usually carried in terms of both aspects in any feud he was in. Swagger was a flop. So they'll make these steps with these guys but not take a gamble on any black wrestlers ? Black wrestlers are more likely to be released before they got the shot the above guys got or even work a match against a top tier performer. It's absolutely ridiculous. It's the 21st century for shits sake. If they won't take a risk now with such a crappy product when will they ? When will they stop looking for the same old tired view of what they want their champions to be and actually try a black performer at the head of the roster ?

That's sickening.

Any hard working wrestler should be given a chance at heavyweight gold; but what about the current roster in WWE?
You honestly think these "black" wrestlers deserve gold because they're black?

WWE's lacking in so much talent these days, it's no longer about whose deserving of anything, it's reaches as far as who's selling. Cena sells, Orton sells, Triple H sells etc etc etc...Not Kingston or Ezekial Jackson, or even David Otunaga. Face facts, man, these guys aren't Bobby Lashley or Booker T.

What's so great about Sheamus?

That's a stupid question.
 
Any hard working wrestler should be given a chance at heavyweight gold; but what about the current roster in WWE?
You honestly think these "black" wrestlers deserve gold because they're black?

WWE's lacking in so much talent these days, it's no longer about whose deserving of anything, it's reaches as far as who's selling. Cena sells, Orton sells, Triple H sells etc etc etc...Not Kingston or Ezekial Jackson, or even David Otunaga. Face facts, man, these guys aren't Bobby Lashley or Booker T.

What's so great about Sheamus?

That's a stupid question
.

Your comment does make a little sense, but the E still give pushes to guys that don't sell all that well either Jack Swagger for example & I would love for you to explain how that is a stupid question?
 

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