WWE Royal Rumble 2012 - Aftermath & General Discussion

[#hamler]

Rhodes is way OVER.

How? It's so damn quite when he does anything. Not over at all. Smackdown canned heat do not count as being over.

Other than Christian he is the best mic man on Smackdown. He can get heat whenever he wants. But his character is an old-school wrestling supportive heel. He is showing respect in turn he has a large fan base. He's an anti-hero heel. Ziggler is now what HBK was then. What aren't you getting? They are over.

When you're a heel, you need to be over ALL the time. Not when you want. Stupid statement.

And no all their was on Smackown at the time was. Lesnar (the champ), Benoit (who won the rumble and switched brands), Big show who was runner up and was feuding with John Cena (who was in infancy), Guerrero who got pushed out of necessity. Kurt Angle was there but he had just come off neck surgery and he had surgery again after Mania.
They had to use Holly against Lesnar. They needed star power in the rumble to make Benoit look good.

And him eliminating Triple H didn't do enough for Benoit? They could've used anyone for Lesnar, yet capitalized on Holly's injury. What is point are you making in regards to Sheamus?

You keep forgetting about Daniel Bryan. What's your Wrestlemania main event? Mark Henry vs. Sheamus vs. Daniel Bryan?

Why does Daniel Bryan have to be in 'Mania's main event? Because he's promising he will be? Means nothing. He doesn't write the shows.

That would be a terrible match. A heel has to win. There is no way Henry holds onto the championship until Wrestlemania. No Chance in hell. And he will lose to a face.

Face like Sheamus?

They wouldn't put 3 faces in a triple threat match in the main event at WM when they barely have enough faces on the brand as it is.

Who said that? I certainly didn't.

And if Bryan cashed in early.....Bryan vs. Sheamus??? That would be awful.

It's still to close to predict anything for Wrestlemania. I'm saying Sheamus has a better shot of winning the Royal Rumble then Ziggler, Rhodes or Wade because he's ten times more over than any of them. If you're over, you can be trusted to carry a brand. The WWE just got over Del Rio, a guy who was pushed too soon too quickly. He couldn't get over and stay ver. They won't make that mistake on Ziggler.

We shall see what transpires. I'm still saying Jericho is the heavy favorite followed by Ziggler.

I'm fine with Jericho winning, but the crowd cares little for Dolph. His matches are filled with silence. Even when he uses heel tactics, he barely gets a reaction.

Was Sheamus OVER when he won his world title???? HELL NO.

He wasn't even over when he won his second world title.

And that's exactly why he was depushed. He wasn't over. Now he is. Massively.

Your whole argument is flawed.

Wrong. What part of Sheamus is over don't you understand? You cannot have Ziggler, Rhodes or Barrett go for the World Title at Wrestlemania when they aren't over with the casual fans. Sheamus is. Sheamus has more of a chance to win the Rumble than Ziggler or Rhodes. Because he is over. That's it. That's my entire argument. Prove that wrong.

 

[ryan86]

Hamily Guy:

Cody is pretty over. Over enough to claim the second best heel spot for SD next to Henry. Now I dont want to take anything away from Barret, I could not STAND him when he was the original leader of Nexus. And it was a "flip the channle" type thing. Over the last 6 months, he has grown leaps and bounds from a proper push. And he gets solid heat for the right reasons, unlike before when no-one cared about him. I can see him as a large piece to a new era and will be a top heel and a future HOF. But I think that Cody has become a such a large cornerstone of the SD brand, and if any of you still have SVS on your DVRs, go back and check out the massive cheers and chats he got at MSG. They were definately the loudest of any of the 10 men in that match. And he didnt have to play off a home crowd for that reaction like somebody else... Booker T wants to put this kid over for very solid reasons, and Booker T is old school which lets you know this is for real.

He will hold a World Title in '12.

 

[OWEN-ing It All]

How? It's so damn quite when he does anything. Not over at all. Smackdown canned heat do not count as being over.

You do not understand their characters, and they get huge reactions. They talk trash and back it up. It gets them respect, they are anti-hero heels. Bad guys who are loved by many because they are old-school wrestling enthusiasts. Like CM Punk.

All those "Oooohhhhhhhssss" have earned them respect from quality matches. These guys have to try harder to be heels now that they are this damn good. Ziggler has Vickie for the time being. Rhodes can get over whenever he wants, his mic skills are incredible.

When you're a heel, you need to be over ALL the time. Not when you want. Stupid statement.

LMFAO......Let's make a list of the heels that have been cheered at Wrestlemania and the faces who have been booed at Wrestlemania.

Heel.....Hulk Hogan, Kane, The Undertaker, Steve Austin, The Rock, Triple H, Edge, Randy Orton, The Miz, Vince McMahon, Kurt Angle, Scott Hall, CM Punk, Chris Jericho, Ric Flair, Shawn Michaels, Brock Lesnar, Shelton Benjamin

Faces......John Cena, The Rock, Batista, Goldberg, The Big Show

Ziggler and Rhodes have the respect of 75% of the audience, the hardcore fans. They are going to be cheered at every major wrestling safe haven. MSG, Philly, Chicago, and every single PPV. They will always be faces and soon that will carry over. Just like every other heel. They are loved for being great at what they do.

Bret Hart had the personality of a wet mop (insert Perry Saturn/Moppy joke here). His matches got him over.
Jericho, Angle, HBK, Randy Savage, Ric Flair, Rick Rude.....they were all heels that became legendary faces because of pure talent.


Ten years from now no one and the Rock means no one will sa, "Let's watch a classic Sheamus match". Ziggler and Rhodes will have 20 disc sets of their greatest matches when they retire. And people will debate who was greater. Sheamus will never "eeeeeevvvvvvvvver" enter the conversation. He will be like Al Snow, Fit Finlay, Jim Duggan, Brutus Beefcake or Bob Holly. Cheered, good but not great.

Sheamus = Jim Duggan...................Hoooooooooooo, you got that fella?

And him eliminating Triple H didn't do enough for Benoit? They could've used anyone for Lesnar, yet capitalized on Holly's injury. What is point are you making in regards to Sheamus?

You were

Why does Daniel Bryan have to be in 'Mania's main event? Because he's promising he will be? Means nothing. He doesn't write the shows.

Here are the scenarios.......

Bryan vs. Ziggler is a must see match.
Bryan vs. Rhodes is a must see match.
Bryan vs. Undertaker is a must see match.
Bryan vs. Orton is a must see match.

Bryan vs. Kane.......could be interesting, but not a must see match by any means.

Bryan vs. Sheamus??? That's a snoozefest......that's why they didn't make it onto the main card last year at Mania, their feud was a flop.

Barrett (If he were to beat Bryan) vs. Sheamus??? That's a snoozefest.

A Fatal 4way or triple threat is no way to show off what Bryan can do. He needs a solid one on one technical clinic of a main event match. That's what the fans will expect and should get.

Face like Sheamus?

No, a face like the NEW World Heavyweight Champion.....Daniel Bryan. Still think Sheamus is gonna win the Rumble? LMAO. A heel would have to win the title between now and WM. With Henry hurt, the only other heels on Smackdown are Wade Barrett (It could but I doubt it will happen, not now), Cody Rhodes (he's still IC champ, but does hold a victory over Bryan) and Christian (who is hurt). Unless it's going to be a face vs. face match......he will not be winning the Rumble. And if that were the case, it would be Orton or Taker, not Sheamus.

Sheamus has a better shot at getting a run at the IC Title than the World Title. Let him win Money In The Bank, not the Rumble.

Who said that? I certainly didn't.

I was saying hypothetically......if Bryan had waited until Wrestlemania, he would have had to be in the main event. A moot point now.

It's still to close to predict anything for Wrestlemania. I'm saying Sheamus has a better shot of winning the Royal Rumble then Ziggler, Rhodes or Wade because he's ten times more over than any of them. If you're over, you can be trusted to carry a brand. The WWE just got over Del Rio, a guy who was pushed too soon too quickly. He couldn't get over and stay ver. They won't make that mistake on Ziggler.

Del Rio was not pushed too quickly. WWE screwed that up, by making him seem like a paper champion. They had him OPEN the show at Wrestlemania. He loses the Ladder Match with Christian for the title. Wins Money In The Bank, cashes in.......then you have him drop it the next month? Only to regain it and lose it again.

They built him up really well, he was getting heat and getting respect from amazing matches. Then once after Wrestlemania everything changed. Less matches, less mic time, making him look weak - after he just won the biggest RR ever. WWE dropped the ball......Del Rio was just playing the hand he was dealt. A losing hand.

I'm fine with Jericho winning, but the crowd cares little for Dolph. His matches are filled with silence. Even when he uses heel tactics, he barely gets a reaction.

I disagree totally. His matches are filled with excitement, the crowd goes nuts.

Shawn Michaels and Ziggler are following the exact same path. People remember HBK's matches more than his promos. No one cared about most of his vignettes until his second heel turn and the formation of DX. Other than with Jannetty at the Barber shop.......

Wrong. What part of Sheamus is over don't you understand? You cannot have Ziggler, Rhodes or Barrett go for the World Title at Wrestlemania when they aren't over with the casual fans. Sheamus is. Sheamus has more of a chance to win the Rumble than Ziggler or Rhodes. Because he is over. That's it. That's my entire argument. Prove that wrong.

Casual fans will not be making up 95% of the audience at Wrestlemania, they never do.......

Santino is over with casual fans......
Zack Ryder is over with casual fans.......
Rikishi was over with casual fans......
Hornswoggle is over with casual fans.......

Rhodes and Ziggler are the future, everyone knows this, why don't you? They are young, talented, respected, highly thought of, and marketable. They have the respect of the hardcore fans. That is much much harder to accomplish than getting casual fans.

Rhodes is 26, Sheamus is 34..........Rhodes will probably be headlining WM 40.

Keep watching after last night you are definitely eating some crow. Get ready for a mouth full when Sheamus does not win the Rumble.

 

[#hamler]

You do not understand their characters, and they get huge reactions. They talk trash and back it up. It gets them respect, they are anti-hero heels. Bad guys who are loved by many because they are old-school wrestling enthusiasts. Like CM Punk.

That does not change the fact that they need to be able to draw. Tell me why it's complete silence when Cody Rhodes and Dolph Ziggler enter the arena?

All those "Oooohhhhhhhssss" have earned them respect from quality matches. These guys have to try harder to be heels now that they are this damn good. Ziggler has Vickie for the time being. Rhodes can get over whenever he wants, his mic skills are incredible.

When he wants? What the fuck? Why in the hell wouldn't you want heat all the time? I'm sure Rhodes or Ziggler would kill to get the kind of heat Michael Cole or Vickie get on a regular basis. The ohhhhsss and awwws are on Smackdown - they're canned. Rhodes and Ziggler have never been consstant with heat....ever.

LMFAO......Let's make a list of the heels that have been cheered at Wrestlemania and the faces who have been booed at Wrestlemania.

Heel.....Hulk Hogan, Kane, The Undertaker, Steve Austin, The Rock, Triple H, Edge, Randy Orton, The Miz, Vince McMahon, Kurt Angle, Scott Hall, CM Punk, Chris Jericho, Ric Flair, Shawn Michaels, Brock Lesnar, Shelton Benjamin

Faces......John Cena, The Rock, Batista, Goldberg, The Big Show

Yet, all these guys were over. You picked one night, was it consistant? No.

Ziggler and Rhodes have the respect of 75% of the audience,

Pulling numbers out of your ass now.

the hardcore fans.

Means nothing.

They are going to be cheered at every major wrestling safe haven. MSG, Philly, Chicago, and every single PPV. They will always be faces and soon that will carry over. Just like every other heel. They are loved for being great at what they do.

Dude, you proved nothing whatsoever. All you did was pull some bullshit number out of your ass and said it was true. If they were so over, they'd be headlining ppvs by now. Vince isn't stupid, he's going to capitalize off a suprstar's popularity as soon as it hits hard; Rhodes and Ziggler have not.

Bret Hart had the personality of a wet mop (insert Perry Saturn/Moppy joke here). His matches got him over.

Bret got over because there were very few wrestlers back then with any real skills. Even so, he worked for years to get to the top.

Jericho, Angle, HBK, Randy Savage, Ric Flair, Rick Rude.....they were all heels that became legendary faces because of pure talent.

Jericho has admitted plenty of times it was hard wrestling a good match when no one in the crowd cared. He got over on charisma - just like Savage. Rick Rude and Flair got over on being pretty boy heels. HBK played the underdog and Angle was pushed incredibly fast. All of these guys were over all the time, not only on ppvs or whatever.

Ten years from now no one and the Rock means no one will sa, "Let's watch a classic Sheamus match". Ziggler and Rhodes will have 20 disc sets of their greatest matches when they retire. And people will debate who was greater. Sheamus will never "eeeeeevvvvvvvvver" enter the conversation. He will be like Al Snow, Fit Finlay, Jim Duggan, Brutus Beefcake or Bob Holly. Cheered, good but not great.

No I know how stupid you really are. None of these guys were never at the top of their brands. Believe it or not, Sheamus is the most over on Smackdown besides Orton. You cannot take that away from him.

Sheamus = Jim Duggan...................Hoooooooooooo, you got that fella?

Didn't Jim Duggan win the first Rumble? Anyways, stupid statement.

Here are the scenarios.......

Bryan has plenty of time to lose the title. Even if he doesn't, you don't know how things will play out. So don't act like you're some wrestling expert who know exactly how things will play out.

Bryan vs. Ziggler is a must see match.

Midcard, sure. Wrestlemania 28 main event, fuck that.

Bryan vs. Rhodes is a must see match.

Midcard, sure. Wrestlemania 28 main event, fuck that.

Bryan vs. Undertaker is a must see match.

Kayfabe wise, Undertaker would destroy Bryan at 'Mania. If Triple can't beat him, why could Bryan?

Bryan vs. Orton is a must see match.

K.

Bryan vs. Kane.......could be interesting, but not a must see match by any means.

Horrid match.

Bryan vs. Sheamus??? That's a snoozefest......that's why they didn't make it onto the main card last year at Mania, their feud was a flop.

They didn't make it because of time. You're clearly a Sheamus hatr. And an idiot.

Barrett (If he were to beat Bryan) vs. Sheamus??? That's a snoozefest.

Barrett is not ready

A Fatal 4way or triple threat is no way to show off what Bryan can do. He needs a solid one on one technical clinic of a main event match. That's what the fans will expect and should get.

K.

No, a face like the NEW World Heavyweight Champion.....Daniel Bryan. Still think Sheamus is gonna win the Rumble?

Yep. More of a chance than Rhodes or Ziggler.

LMAO. A heel would have to win the title between now and WM. With Henry hurt, the only other heels on Smackdown are Wade Barrett (It could but I doubt it will happen, not now), Cody Rhodes (he's still IC champ, but does hold a victory over Bryan) and Christian (who is hurt). Unless it's going to be a face vs. face match......he will not be winning the Rumble. And if that were the case, it would be Orton or Taker, not Sheamus.

You haven't seen how anything has played out yet. Who's to say Daniel Bryan turns heel on Friday? After all, every superstar to cash in has turned heel in the process.

Sheamus has a better shot at getting a run at the IC Title than the World Title. Let him win Money In The Bank, not the Rumble.

Rhodes won't. Ziggler won't. They need time. They do not need to be winning Royal Rumble.

Del Rio was not pushed too quickly. WWE screwed that up, by making him seem like a paper champion. They had him OPEN the show at Wrestlemania. He loses the Ladder Match with Christian for the title. Wins Money In The Bank, cashes in.......then you have him drop it the next month? Only to regain it and lose it again.

He was pushed too quickly because he wasn't over!!!

They built him up really well, he was getting heat and getting respect from amazing matches.

his heat quickly died off.

Then once after Wrestlemania everything changed. Less matches, less mic time, making him look weak - after he just won the biggest RR ever. WWE dropped the ball......Del Rio was just playing the hand he was dealt. A losing hand.

And what's to say Rhodes or Ziggler would do the same? If you're a good wrestler, you need to stay over no matter what hand you're dealt.

I disagree totally. His matches are filled with excitement, the crowd goes nuts.

Not heat. Not excitement from the crowd.

Shawn Michaels and Ziggler are following the exact same path. People remember HBK's matches more than his promos. No one cared about most of his vignettes until his second heel turn and the formation of DX. Other than with Jannetty at the Barber shop.......

Shawn was over all the time.

Casual fans will not be making up 95% of the audience at Wrestlemania, they never do.......

And IWC smarks make up he entire audience at Wrestlmania?

Santino is over with casual fans......
Zack Ryder is over with casual fans.......
Rikishi was over with casual fans......
Hornswoggle is over with casual fans.......

None of these guys are credible idiot.

Rhodes and Ziggler are the future, everyone knows this, why don't you? They are young, talented, respected, highly thought of, and marketable. They have the respect of the hardcore fans. That is much much harder to accomplish than getting casual fans.

IWC smarks are not as important as casuals. Oif that were so, Cena would be jobbing. You're getting me all wrong. Ziggler is my top three favorite in the WWE. But, I know he isn't over. He shouldnt be winning Royal Rumbles or anything like that until he does.

Rhodes is 26, Sheamus is 34..........Rhodes will probably be headlining WM 40.

Not 28. So this means they should push Sheamus now before he gets too old right? Even more reason for him to win this year's Rumble.

Keep watching after last night you are definitely eating some crow. Get ready for a mouth full when Sheamus does not win the Rumble.

And if Ziggler or Rhodes won the Royal Rumble, I'll admit you were right. However, they woint. Next year's Rumble, ok, but they are not ready yet.

 

[DiscipleofWrestling]

The Royal Rumble... my favorite event of the year. As Roddy Piper famously said, "just when they think they have all the answers, I keep changing the questions." That's what the Rumble does at its best: changes the questions. In 2010, Edge's return changed everything in the layout of the Rumble and the Road to WrestleMania. 2011 could have gone to several different people. Some say the Rumble isn't relevant anymore. I wholeheartedly disagree with that. Granted, the winner of the Rumble doesn't go on to main event WrestleMania as often as it should (and the winner won't this year), but the Rumble still lays the foundation of what WrestleMania will be. And with that stated, I can't freaking wait.

As far as who wins, I'm not optimistic for the blue brand. I don't see Sheamus, Cody Rhodes, or Randy Orton winning the Royal Rumble this year. Orton would be an obvious choice given that he is not only a main eventer but is also from St. Louis which would give him a good career moment. However, what does Orton gain from winning? Is it going to put him that much more over? I don't see how. Sheamus is still a mid-card talent and will probably be in the middle of a multi-man tag at this year's WrestleMania. He will have a strong showing, but he won't win the Rumble. Same goes for Cody Rhodes. He may have a IC title match at WrestleMania, but headlining the show with one of the world champions is again too early for him. Next year, who knows? Rhodes may get to that level in time, but the time is not now.

If I am a betting man, I would say someone that is going to win from the Raw brand, either from the current roster or the mysterious 1.2.12 person whomever that may be. My preliminary pick to win the Royal Rumble from the current roster is The Miz. I know he's been in the title scene as of last night, but the Rumble would do a lot to build Miz back up to a credible main event villain for CM Punk for Mania. I do have to say though that my second pick will be the 1.2.12 person (if that is a wrestler). My gut says Chris Jericho is coming back, will win the Rumble, and will lose at Mania to CM Punk in a main event in a solid match. Right now, I'm going with The Miz, but I have a feeling 2012 will be the temporary return of Y2J and that Jericho is going to win this year. Regardless of what happens, I'm ready for the Rumble to get here and to get on the road to WrestleMania.

 

[The Ram]

Like last year I am not sure who's going to win. Maybe they'll do an up and coming star or maybe they'll go for a veteran like.... KANE I dont kno if that's just a fantasy of mine or wat but Kane has been in more rumbles then anybody and if there was a time for him to win it, it wud be at this rumble coming up while im there live! Be a mark out moment for me since Kane has been my favorite for a while. One thing I do not want to see is Randy Orton win... I may be from St. Louis but that doesnt mean I want Orton to win every match. I dont see what he could gain from winning it really.

 

[The Architect of Anarchy]

Up to now, I'm now saying Taker - if he returns before hand - I know it sounds really insane by I feel that he might return to the Smackdown brand to feud with Henry again.

 

[Davi323]

I voted other. After last year, there is simply know way that I can be confident about anyone winning. I didn't see Alberto Del Rio winning, he wouldn't have even been in my top 5 choices. Then, before Santino Marella became the last one to be eliminated, for a brief hopeful second, I dared to hope that the WWE would actually against all logic, let Marella win it.

Basically, I have given up predicting who is going to win the Royal Rumble, and started to just enjoy the match for what it was...controlled chaos.

 

[OWEN-ing It All]

That does not change the fact that they need to be able to draw. Tell me why it's complete silence when Cody Rhodes and Dolph Ziggler enter the arena?

You're deaf? lol

I guess those oooohss and ahhhs on Raw were fake too? I guess that eruption from the crowd when Rhodes says he resurrected the IC Title was rigged?

You just don't get it, it's over your head. You keep rehashing questions.

When he wants? What the fuck? Why in the hell wouldn't you want heat all the time? I'm sure Rhodes or Ziggler would kill to get the kind of heat Michael Cole or Vickie get on a regular basis. The ohhhhsss and awwws are on Smackdown - they're canned. Rhodes and Ziggler have never been consstant with heat....ever.

His nickname is the #heel, you moron. He's catering to the Hardcore fans. WTF don't you understand? Maybe if you were a hardcore fan, you'd realize that.

They get extreme heat because they don't belong doing what they are doing, like Lauranitis, Mike Adamle, John Cena. Like when a celebrity says a wrestlers name wrong? They get booed.

You don't belong if you get that, but they don't sell Vickie or Cole shirts do they? The last person to get legitimate heat like this was Muhammad Hussan.

You have to be the most idiotic "fan" ever. Or are you part of this new "universe" that they keep talking about?

Yet, all these guys were over. You picked one night, was it consistent? No.

You said that a heel has to be over every night? Did you not? Well they are not over every night if they are getting cheered. I was there at Summerslam 2002. Rock vs. Brock. Brock was the heel and was unanimously cheered. Kurt Angle was favored over Rey Mysterio, Kurt was the heel.

I can name a thousand times this has occurred in wrestling history. (Man of a thousand holds-esque). By the way when Jericho did that to Malenko? He was the heel and was cheered for doing that. He developed a cult following (hardcore fans) then he becomes a face. It's the job of the company to put these guys in a position to stay heel. Sometimes it's impossible.

Randy Orton was going to punt Stephanie McMahon in the head and was cheered for it. Do you have dementia or something?

I disagreed. I gave you multiple undeniable examples of the opposite of what you said (Then and now). These are facts. Irrefutable facts. Which makes you wrong? Right? lol

I can keep going and going. It's "fans" like you who have allowed the "John Cenas" of the WWE to breed. For not realizing they are "flashes in the pan" or "15 minutes of fame". If you aren't original, if you do the same old thing you are going to get booed. If you become monotonous, you will be booed.

Pulling numbers out of your ass now.

Actually I was being generous in your favor. Ziggler is from Florida, The Rock is from Florida, Rhodes is from Georgia. They are gonna be paying to see these guys.

Why were 6 top WRESTLERS (not entertainers) main eventing Raw? It was in Philly. Philadelphia is a PRO WRESTLING audience. You book quality wrestling matches in front of PRO WRESTLING audiences. Why (Since you don't seem to know, or comprehend what I've been saying)? Because they expect WRESTLING MATCHES not sports entertainment.

That's why in NY, PA, Chicago, Japan, England, Deep South, they expect WRESTLING.

Which is why they booed Alicia when she botched her spot. She wasn't booed until then and even more so when she made that awkward promo. They expect perfection. They will boo you or chant "you fucked up" or "boring" or "you can't wrestle".

What is Miami? A PRO WRESTLING AUDIENCE.

Means nothing.

Your opinion is starting to mean nothing to me. By you not using your brain. You might as well "plead the 5th dimension" before you get yourself into some more trouble.

Dude, you proved nothing whatsoever. All you did was pull some bullshit number out of your ass and said it was true. If they were so over, they'd be headlining ppvs by now. Vince isn't stupid, he's going to capitalize off a superstar's popularity as soon as it hits hard; Rhodes and Ziggler have not.

That's what the Royal Rumble is now......it's a jumping off point. Ziggler and Rhodes worked their way up. They have both been tag team champions. Had singles gold and have proven they can put on a crowd pleasing match. Week in and week out.

Bret got over because there were very few wrestlers back then with any real skills. Even so, he worked for years to get to the top.

The Million Dollar Man didn't have skills? The British Bulldog didn't have skills? Mr. Perfect didn't have skills? The Undertaker didn't have skills? Rick Martel didn't have skills? HBK didn't have skills?

Is ignorance really bliss? I'm intrigued, care to comment on that?

Jericho has admitted plenty of times it was hard wrestling a good match when no one in the crowd cared. He got over on charisma - just like Savage. Rick Rude and Flair got over on being pretty boy heels. HBK played the underdog and Angle was pushed incredibly fast. All of these guys were over all the time, not only on ppvs or whatever.

No, they weren't. Angle used cheap heat by insulting the crowd. Cena used cheap heat.

You want Dolph to wear a red sox jersey in new york? (Like John Cena)

Cheap heat: Making fun of the hometown or home teams, talking in a foreign language, bashing America, etc. Like cheap pops: saying the name of the town, wearing a home teams jersey.....Jerry Lawler coined the phrase for Foley. It works the same way.

No I know how stupid you really are. None of these guys were never at the top of their brands. Believe it or not, Sheamus is the most over on Smackdown besides Orton. You cannot take that away from him.

Cough Undertaker Cough
Cough Rey Mysterio Cough
Cough Sin Cara Cough
Cough Zack Ryder Cough

He's popular, more so now that the 3/4 are gone. But they WILL BE BACK. Edge is gone, Christian turned heel. He benefited. Good, doesn't mean he should be main eventing again.

Sheamus is awesome. I love his intensity and his move-set. Not bad on the mic. But he shouldn't be main eventing on a consistent basis. Sorry. He should either feud with Cody for the IC Title or feud with Kane. Or take the title from Cody, let him win the Rumble, then take on Kane.

Didn't Jim Duggan win the first Rumble? Anyways, stupid statement.

Yeah he did. Went it meant nothing. The WWE championship match guarantee didn't start until 1993. When Duggan, Studd, Hogan, won it was like winning a slammy is now. It was an insignificant accolade.

Duggan also was KOTR and he was the first person to knock Yokozuna off his feet. Did they get him anywhere? He had a huge fanbase and was a credible superstar.....But he never won a championship in the WWE.

He sold shirts, had loud ovations, sold those foam 2x4s. SO F'N WHAT.

Not every wrestler has to make tens of millions in T-shirt sales. It would be nice, but that's not how it works.

Bryan has plenty of time to lose the title. Even if he doesn't, you don't know how things will play out. So don't act like you're some wrestling expert who know exactly how things will play out.

You're right (for once). I don't know and neither do you. But yet I'm at least trying to come up with ideas. You still haven't given me a scenario for Sheamus if he were to win the Rumble like you hope (to save face).

Who's he gonna face? Give me some examples, be creative......try it. That's half the fun of it all.

Midcard, sure. Wrestlemania 28 main event, fuck that.

It's not gonna end the show. Usually they have 5 or 6 main events. 4th to last match for the World Heavyweight title.

Sheamus will open......on the free for all or whatever they call the pre-show now. Don't get your panties in a twist, I'm joking.

Sheamus should face Kane. That would at least be interesting to me.

Kayfabe wise, Undertaker would destroy Bryan at 'Mania. If Triple can't beat him, why could Bryan?

No one is going to beat The Undertaker. No one ever will. Does it really matter who he faces? Yes.....at least give some young guy who deserves it a rub. It's pointless for Triple H and Taker to face one another. Let Rhodes face Taker, let Triple H face a guy like The Miz. They can progress both those guys. Triple H and Taker have nothing to gain by having a 3rd go around.

Horrid match.

Says you.

They didn't make it because of time. You're clearly a Sheamus hatr. And an idiot.

No, I'm actually a big fan of Sheamus and have been. But there are more deserving guys than Sheamus. Guys who have worked hard and deserve it more.

Barrett is not ready

He was until he was buried for no reason. He's getting back there. But he still needs work. He needs to hit the gym. His lats are crap for a guy his size. He should not be dropping Mark Henry or John Cena during his botched wastelands.

Yep. More of a chance than Rhodes or Ziggler.

Not even close. Who have they been pushing most these past few months? Rhodes, Barrett, Ziggler, Bryan. Sheamus has been winning but not "main event pushed". He'll probably have a good showing in the Rumble and lose. He'll pull a Piper. That's who Sheamus is.....Piper/Duggan/Junkyard Dog/Big Bossman/Bob Holly. He's a popular face......that should be it. Kane won the world title very quickly after his debut, much like Sheamus. Got that Co-win with Taker against Austin......and then? Mid-Card Powerhouse. THAT IS WHAT SHEAMUS IS.

If you think Sheamus is gonna be a 10 time champion or whatever you envision. You are vastly mistaken.

You haven't seen how anything has played out yet. Who's to say Daniel Bryan turns heel on Friday? After all, every superstar to cash in has turned heel in the process.

I doubt Bryan will turn heel. They need him as a face. He works better as a face.

Rhodes won't. Ziggler won't. They need time. They do not need to be winning Royal Rumble.

Yes they do. They deserve the old-school path to the title. Because they are future hall of famers.

He was pushed too quickly because he wasn't over!!!

He was misguided, he was getting heat. They made him look weak by losing to guys like Edge and Cena. They killed his momentum. His matches were amazing and he was working the mic really well.

his heat quickly died off.

For the reasons I mentioned. I know.

And what's to say Rhodes or Ziggler would do the same? If you're a good wrestler, you need to stay over no matter what hand you're dealt.

So why can't Cena stay face? It has to do with his lack of ability. All that other crap is secondary (his shirts, corny jokes, lame image: Hogan-esque superman wannabe marine crap). He can't sell moves, he is unpolished, clumsy, lacks agility (but tries to fly), he can't put on a quality wrestling match every night, and lacks believability both on the mic and in the squared circle.

A guy like this never should have been made it past the mid card. That's why he is HATED. Plain and simple. Everything else is just fuel for the fire.

Shawn was over all the time.

No, he wasn't. Actually he was cheered even during his heel IC title reigns. Because of the girls. Like Cena and Orton.

And IWC smarks make up he entire audience at Wrestlmania?

It's expensive to go to Wrestlemania, and hardcore fans spend the cash to go there. It's not like the Superbowl or World Series. You don't see suits and business executives crowded around ringside seats do you? NOOOOOO.

I guess that's why Cena "Couldn't Wrestle" against HHH and why "Rocky Sucked" against Hogan???

They are going to boo Cena out of the stadium at WM28. It's gonna as bad as ECW, maybe worse.

None of these guys are credible idiot.

As main eventers, I know that. That's my point. Popularity doesn't guarantee main event status.

IWC smarks are not as important as casuals. Oif that were so, Cena would be jobbing. You're getting me all wrong. Ziggler is my top three favorite in the WWE. But, I know he isn't over. He shouldnt be winning Royal Rumbles or anything like that until he does.

If Ziggler/Rhodeswon the Rumble would anyone complain? Would anyone say that they didn't deserve it? No, so he's over. He's proven. He's got respect. They know him, he's been around, he's paid his dues and he has the greatest work ethic of anyone in WWE. 2 matches in back-2-back ppvs? If he wasn't over why would you book him so often? Why would he hold the US title for so long?

Not 28. So this means they should push Sheamus now before he gets too old right? Even more reason for him to win this year's Rumble.

No, it means why would you give Sheamus something he doesn't need? They already wasted the KOTR on him. Which should have went to Del Rio. They could have played that up so well. Sheamus was the worst KOTR since Billy Gunn and Mabel.

Royal Rumble would elevate guys to the next level. Yokozuna, Steve Austin, HBK, Rey Mysterio, Batista, Chris Benoit, Alberto Del Rio.

Rhodes and Ziggler have done everything that they need to do, the only thing left is the main event.

Only in the event that no young star is ready does a safe pick emerge. Like The Rock, Triple H, Steve Austin, Edge, Randy Orton, John Cena, The Undertaker.

They have many this year. But they also have safe picks.....Jericho, Kane.

And if Ziggler or Rhodes won the Royal Rumble, I'll admit you were right. However, they woint. Next year's Rumble, ok, but they are not ready yet.

Ok, Deal. Y2J is still my numero uno. But I stand by the statement that a heel will win the Royal Rumble.

 

[#hamler]

You're deaf? lol

Nope. I can clearly hear and see that Sheamus is more ready than Rhodes or Ziggler.

I guess those oooohss and ahhhs on Raw were fake too? I guess that eruption from the crowd when Rhodes says he resurrected the IC Title was rigged?

I watched closely last night, Ziggler and Rhodes got little to no reaction from Philly which you consider a wrestling town...

You just don't get it, it's over your head. You keep rehashing questions.

I would gladly admit it if I was wrong. But they aren't over besides in a select few areas of the country. Of course they’re going to be over in Chicago or New York, those are the greatest places the WWE goes to. But just about anywhere else, they are not over. They need time to grow. Pushing them to win the Rumble too quickly will only hurt them in the future.

His nickname is the #heel, you moron. He's catering to the Hardcore fans. WTF don't you understand? Maybe if you were a hardcore fan, you'd realize that.

I am a hardcore fan. Even if he is catering to harcore fans, that's the reason he isn’t over. I've actually told you I love Dolph, however, that's not saying others do.

They get extreme heat because they don't belong doing what they are doing, like Lauranitis, Mike Adamle, John Cena. Like when a celebrity says a wrestlers name wrong? They get booed.

What is you're point?

You don't belong if you get that, but they don't sell Vickie or Cole shirts do they? The last person to get legitimate heat like this was Muhammad Hussan.

Because they're irrelevant. They're still heat magnets. Why do you think Vickie has been paired with Dolph for so long. Because he needs heat.

You have to be the most idiotic "fan" ever. Or are you part of this new "universe" that they keep talking about?

Guess so.

You said that a heel has to be over every night? Did you not? Well they are not over every night if they are getting cheered. I was there at Summerslam 2002. Rock vs. Brock. Brock was the heel and was unanimously cheered. Kurt Angle was favored over Rey Mysterio, Kurt was the heel.

No, consistency plays a major factor here. Was Brock cheered every night? No, one night means nothing.

I can name a thousand times this has occurred in wrestling history. (Man of a thousand holds-esque). By the way when Jericho did that to Malenko? He was the heel and was cheered for doing that. He developed a cult following (hardcore fans) then he becomes a face. It's the job of the company to put these guys in a position to stay heel. Sometimes it's impossible.

The crowd care little about it. In fact, rewatch it. It was mysteriously silent during that entire segment.

Randy Orton was going to punt Stephanie McMahon in the head and was cheered for it. Do you have dementia or something?

One night. CONSISTANCY.

I disagreed. I gave you multiple undeniable examples of the opposite of what you said (Then and now). These are facts. Irrefutable facts. Which makes you wrong? Right? lol

You didn't. I gave you reasoning for each one of those pushes and you cannot find a way around it. Wrestling hour long matches mean nothing if the crowd isn't behind you.

I can keep going and going. It's "fans" like you who have allowed the "John Cenas" of the WWE to breed. For not realizing they are "flashes in the pan" or "15 minutes of fame". If you aren't original, if you do the same old thing you are going to get booed. If you become monotonous, you will be booed.

If you don't understand why Cena is where he is, you don’t understand pro wrestling..

Actually I was being generous in your favor. Ziggler is from Florida, The Rock is from Florida, Rhodes is from Georgia. They are gonna be paying to see these guys.

No. Rhodes or Ziggler do not draw. They are paying to see Rock and Cena. Had the WWE wanted these guys to be advertised, they'd be on the Mania poster with Rock and Cena.

Why were 6 top WRESTLERS (not entertainers) main eventing Raw? It was in Philly. Philadelphia is a PRO WRESTLING audience. You book quality wrestling matches in front of PRO WRESTLING audiences. Why (Since you don't seem to know, or comprehend what I've been saying)? Because they expect WRESTLING MATCHES not sports entertainment.

Because it was a throw away show. Which means nothing important happened.

That's why in NY, PA, Chicago, Japan, England, Deep South, they expect WRESTLING.

I listened last night, Cody nor Ziggler were over...in anyway.

Which is why they booed Alicia when she botched her spot. She wasn't booed until then and even more so when she made that awkward promo. They expect perfection. They will boo you or chant "you fucked up" or "boring" or "you can't wrestle".

No one cared about her. Never. She was never over.

What is Miami? A PRO WRESTLING AUDIENCE.

K. What about the day after? Or the month after? It's not worth pushing them only for Wrestlemania.

Your opinion is starting to mean nothing to me. By you not using your brain. You might as well "plead the 5th dimension" before you get yourself into some more trouble.

Irrelevant.

That's what the Royal Rumble is now......it's a jumping off point. Ziggler and Rhodes worked their way up. They have both been tag team champions. Had singles gold and have proven they can put on a crowd pleasing match. Week in and week out.

But haven't won the crowd over. They need more time.

The Million Dollar Man didn't have skills?

Manager.

The British Bulldog didn't have skills?

Druggie.

Mr. Perfect didn't have skills?

One.

The Undertaker didn't have skills?

two.

Rick Martel

No.

HBK didn't have skills?

Three. Three guys who had skills and they feuded with Hart.

Is ignorance really bliss? I'm intrigued, care to comment on that?

I suppose you don’t have a mirror.

No, they weren't. Angle used cheap heat by insulting the crowd. Cena used cheap heat.
You want Dolph to wear a red sox jersey in new york? (Like John Cena)
Cheap heat: Making fun of the hometown or home teams, talking in a foreign language, bashing America, etc. Like cheap pops: saying the name of the town, wearing a home teams jersey.....Jerry Lawler coined the phrase for Foley. It works the same way.

Dolph has never done anything to get any kind of heat at all. He just now started to stand on his head to get a little reaction from the crowd. But not nearly enough of a reaction.

Cough Undertaker Cough

Mystic character. That's why he got over.

Cough Rey Mysterio Cough

Underdog.

Cough Sin Cara Cough

Cool moves.

Cough Zack Ryder Cough

Underdog. Got over on his gimmick.

He's popular, more so now that the 3/4 are gone. But they WILL BE BACK. Edge is gone, Christian turned heel. He benefited. Good, doesn't mean he should be main eventing again.

Sure it does. If you're over, you’re deserving of a World Title push. Especially when you've already held the WWE title twice. Sheamus is successful. That's the difference between Rikishi and Hornswoggle.

Sheamus is awesome. I love his intensity and his move-set. Not bad on the mic. But he shouldn't be main eventing on a consistent basis. Sorry. He should either feud with Cody for the IC Title or feud with Kane. Or take the title from Cody, let him win the Rumble, then take on Kane.

Cody isn't over. And Cody vs. Kane just screams boring.

Yeah he did. Went it meant nothing. The WWE championship match guarantee didn't start until 1993. When Duggan, Studd, Hogan, won it was like winning a slammy is now. It was an insignificant accolade.
Duggan also was KOTR and he was the first person to knock Yokozuna off his feet. Did they get him anywhere? He had a huge fanbase and was a credible superstar.....But he never won a championship in the WWE.
He sold shirts, had loud ovations, sold those foam 2x4s. SO F'N WHAT.

That's not how the WWE works anymore. In a time when there are so few guys who are over, the WWE will push those who get over quickly before their steam dies off.

Not every wrestler has to make tens of millions in T-shirt sales. It would be nice, but that's not how it works.

But if very few care about them, they need more time to grow.

You're right (for once). I don't know and neither do you. But yet I'm at least trying to come up with ideas. You still haven't given me a scenario for Sheamus if he were to win the Rumble like you hope (to save face).
Who's he gonna face? Give me some examples, be creative......try it. That's half the fun of it all.

Sheamus vs. Christian. Sheamus vs. Brayan. Sheamus vs. Undertaker. Anyone of those would do.

It's not gonna end the show. Usually they have 5 or 6 main events. 4th to last match for the World Heavyweight title.

It's still one of the top draws. Are Dolph or Cody top draws, no.

Sheamus will open......on the free for all or whatever they call the pre-show now. Don't get your panties in a twist, I'm joking.

They'd be stupid to waste someone as over as Sheamus on the pre-show.

Sheamus should face Kane. That would at least be interesting to me.

To you.

No one is going to beat The Undertaker. No one ever will. Does it really matter who he faces? Yes.....at least give some young guy who deserves it a rub. It's pointless for Triple H and Taker to face one another. Let Rhodes face Taker, let Triple H face a guy like The Miz. They can progress both those guys. Triple H and Taker have nothing to gain by having a 3rd go around.

I'm fine with that. Ziggler or Rhodes should face 'Taker. They could use the rub and the heat they get from feuding with the Undertaker. But not winning the Rumble.

Says you.

Yep.

No, I'm actually a big fan of Sheamus and have been. But there are more deserving guys than Sheamus. Guys who have worked hard and deserve it more.

But aren't over.

He was until he was buried for no reason. He's getting back there. But he still needs work. He needs to hit the gym. His lats are crap for a guy his size. He should not be dropping Mark Henry or John Cena during his botched wastelands.

So he shouldn't be winning the Rumble. Thanks for proving my point.

Not even close. Who have they been pushing most these past few months? Rhodes, Barrett, Ziggler, Bryan. Sheamus has been winning but not "main event pushed".

They're pushing him. Normally, if they had nothing for a certain superstar to do, he wouldn't be featured. Yet Sheamus is featured on every show. They want him pushed. Yet Christian was injured and they have no one to face him.

He'll probably have a good showing in the Rumble and lose. He'll pull a Piper. That's who Sheamus is.....Piper/Duggan/Junkyard Dog/Big Bossman/Bob Holly. He's a popular face......that should be it. Kane won the world title very quickly after his debut, much like Sheamus. Got that Co-win with Taker against Austin......and then? Mid-Card Powerhouse. THAT IS WHAT SHEAMUS IS.

Second top baby face on Smackdown. It wasn't too long ago Sheamus was teaming with Orton and Cena getting huge reactions.

If you think Sheamus is gonna be a 10 time champion or whatever you envision. You are vastly mistaken.

Why? Explain to me why? He's credible, wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyy over and has the higher ups in the back for support.

I doubt Bryan will turn heel. They need him as a face. He works better as a face.

K.

Yes they do. They deserve the old-school path to the title. Because they are future hall of famers.

You don't give someone accolades like that and hope they get over in the process. see Jack Swagger. They gave him the World Title and hoped he would eventually get over, he didn’t. They took the title off him quickly.

He was misguided, he was getting heat. They made him look weak by losing to guys like Edge and Cena. They killed his momentum. His matches were amazing and he was working the mic really well.

He wasn't ready. If he was ready, he would've found a way to stay over. Del Rio lacks what it takes to be a good heel. His character of a good looking rich guy is perfect, he should’ve stayed over.

For the reasons I mentioned. I know.

It's his fault. A character in wrestling knows how to stay over. The writers have shit to do with it.

So why can't Cena stay face? It has to do with his lack of ability. All that other crap is secondary (his shirts, corny jokes, lame image: Hogan-esque superman wannabe marine crap). He can't sell moves, he is unpolished, clumsy, lacks agility (but tries to fly), he can't put on a quality wrestling match every night, and lacks believability both on the mic and in the squared circle.

That's complete horse shit. If you don't understand why Cena is where he is, then you don't understand how prowrestling works.

A guy like this never should have been made it past the mid card. That's why he is HATED. Plain and simple. Everything else is just fuel for the fire.

Hated by IWC marks who do not matter.

No, he wasn't. Actually he was cheered even during his heel IC title reigns. Because of the girls. Like Cena and Orton.

But, but why? He wrestled his ass off like Ziggler and Rhodes?

It's expensive to go to Wrestlemania, and hardcore fans spend the cash to go there. It's not like the Superbowl or World Series. You don't see suits and business executives crowded around ringside seats do you? NOOOOOO.

I would love some kind of figure that proves hardcore fans make up 75% of Wrestlemania's audience.

I guess that's why Cena "Couldn't Wrestle" against HHH and why "Rocky Sucked" against Hogan???

Cena and Rock were at the top of the WWE at one point or another. The Hardcore fans hate that. That's why the WWE chooses not to listen to idiots like that.

They are going to boo Cena out of the stadium at WM28. It's gonna as bad as ECW, maybe worse.

The Rock is a face. He's been gone for 8 years. Of course they’re gong to cheer him and not Cena.

As main eventers, I know that. That's my point. Popularity doesn't guarantee main event status.

Why doesn't it? If you're going to sell out a show, shouldn't your most popular superstars main event?

If Ziggler/Rhodes won the Rumble would anyone complain? Would anyone say that they didn't deserve it? No, so he's over. He's proven. He's got respect.

I've read numerous of posts on here that say they aren't ready. You're a mark. A blind one.

They know him, he's been around, he's paid his dues and he has the greatest work ethic of anyone in WWE.

But still draw midcard heat. How can anyone be trusted to carry the WWE that doesn't draw any heat?
2 matches in back-2-back ppvs? If he wasn't over why would you book him so often? Why would he hold the US title for so long?

No, it means why would you give Sheamus something he doesn't need? They already wasted the KOTR on him. Which should have went to Del Rio. They could have played that up so well. Sheamus was the worst KOTR since Billy Gunn and Mabel.

That's fucking stupid. When Sheamus won the King of the Ring, he was on the rise. What happened after can certainly be questioned but Sheamus was the best pick to win.

Royal Rumble would elevate guys to the next level. Yokozuna, Steve Austin, HBK, Rey Mysterio, Batista, Chris Benoit, Alberto Del Rio.

What about Triple H, The Rock, Cena, Orton?

Rhodes and Ziggler have done everything that they need to do, the only thing left is the main event.

No, they need to work more to get over. A few ohhhhs and awws wont get you anywhere in the WWE. You need heat. How hard is it to understand?

Only in the event that no young star is ready does a safe pick emerge. Like The Rock, Triple H, Steve Austin, Edge, Randy Orton, John Cena, The Undertaker.

Dolph Ziggler is not. He cannot do shit without Vickie next to his side. She isn't always going to be there for Dolph to fall back on. Rhodes needs more heat. That's what they're doing wit him. Randy Orton and Booker T are two incredibly over faces. The WWE obviously sees something in Cody, but they're also trying to get him heat hence the reason he's feuding with two over faces like Booker and Orton. Can you not see that?

They have many this year. But they also have safe picks.....Jericho, Kane.

None of which are that over enough to go to Wrestlemania and compete with The Rock vs. John Cena. Dolph Ziggler vs. Daniel Bryan will be hugely over shadowed by The Rock and Cena. I'm sure the WWE doesn't want that.

Ok, Deal. Y2J is still my numero uno.

I'm fine with a Jericho win.

But I stand by the statement that a heel will win the Royal Rumble.

A heel not named Dolph Ziggler or Cody Rhodes.

I've spent my time with a blind mark tha doesn't understand that you need to be over to earn a Rumble win. Instead of getting over in the process, you need to be over before. I'm done explaining this to you. Dolph and Rhodes aren't ready until they prove they can draw heat on a consistant basis. So far, they have not.

 

[SuperSteve16]

The Royal Rumble is one of the my favourite events of the year and I hope that it stays as a 40 man rumble because it gives more superstars chances to elevate and show what they have at the start of the road to Wrestlemania. After all, a good peformance in the rumble could give guys a chance to be on the Wrestlemania card. As for who wins, I'm not really sure but I would like any of these guys to win it: Chris Jericho, Kane, Dolph Ziggler or he'll even to get him back in the main event Randy Orton

 

[Leakee]

Personally, I believe that Wade Barrett should and will win the Royal Rumble. Not just because I'm English I reckon Barrett has the most potential other than Sheamus, who hasn't lost a match in ages. Barrett is a big guy, Vince likes big guys. He is doing great feuding with Randy Orton and he showed that his in-ring ability is at a high level in the tables match at TLC.

He has had experience in the Main Event when he was on Raw in the Nexus, but has been on a slide ever since. He has started to rise in his position on Smackdown since feuding with Orton as he has been 'Getting into Randy's Head' according to Josh Matthews. If a Smackdown superstar was to win it for the 2nd year running, my guess is either: 3rd Choice; Cody Rhodes, 2nd Choice; The Great White Sheamus and 1st Choice (Hopefully) Wade Barrett.

BUT, as we all know; anything can happen in WWE and someone like Jinder Mahal even has a chance in the Royal Rumble. Hopefully no-one like Orton or a returning Christian who, already in the Main Event, doesn't need the Royal Rumble win what-so-ever.

 

[berlinbrawler]

Possible winners: Cody Rhodes, Sheamus, Dolph Ziggler... and Chris Jericho.

Cody vs Daniel Bryan for the title at Wrestlemania? Epic! However I strongly doubt Bryan will be champion until then. He won't hold on to the gold for long.

Ziggler winning is a long shot. I just would really like to see it. Not very likely, though.

Sheamus definitely can't be ignored. I could see him face Mark Henry at Wrestlemania (provided Henry gets the belt back soon). He would have to be considered the top pick.

Chris Jericho. Well. Rumor has it Jericho vs Punk for the title. So it would make sense for Jericho to win it and add a Rumble victory to his resume - which would have to be the very last "brass ring" missing there. Would be a shame, though, to give the win to someone who really doesn't need it, just like it was a shame when Undertaker won it. There was no point. Better to give the win to someone who can be elevated through that win. Considering how Jericho always spoke out for the WWE's need to push young stars I would imagine he agrees.

 

[Viggo]

My picks are Sheamus or Jericho to win the Rumble. The Rumbe winner hasn't won at Mania for the last 3 years, so the 2012 winner will probably capture the title at mania. Sheamus is on a roll right now, and he's due for a heavyweight title. I love the irony of possibly seeing Sheamus and Daniel Bryan, the dark match of WM 27, as a main event at WM 28.

However, if Jericho does indeed come back, I pick him to win over Sheamus. A lot of us have been reading about a possible Punk/Jericho match at mania, which would be epic. I would love to see either Sheamus or Jericho win though.

If Randy Orton wins, I'll be pissed.

If The Miz wins, I'll really be pissed.

If John Cena wins, I will throw a brick into my television and shit in the hole.

 

[rge2010]

WWE has confirmed today that it will be a 30 man Royal Rumble.

Randy Orton is who I think will win it. To be honest, I dont really care if he does or doesnt. Orton vs Bryan doesnt really get to me excited though.

 

[Mustang Sally]

If The Miz wins, I'll really be pissed.

It could be Miz, for the same reason it could be Sheamus: both are ready-for-prime-time players whom I feel the company is seeing fit to vault back into the title picture. If it's so, what better way than to have one of them win the Rumble and automatically qualify for a title shot?

I don't care for the idea of Miz turning the trick because he's already been there and I didn't care for his title reign last time. When it was over, he seemed to return to the mid-card, which is where I felt he belonged all along. I'm of the mind that guys like Miz are running near the top because there's a severe dearth of main event performers at this time. For the same reason, Cody Rhodes could win the Rumble and travel the same path.

Sheamus is another story. Even while he's also been at the top already, the company de-pushed him (being pinned cleanly by Evan Bourne? Oy vey!), then started to boost him back up, then had him job to Sin Cara (double oy vey) and now finally has him on a winning streak that could easily culminate in a Rumble win.

I hope it's Sheamus.....first, because he belongs at the top.....and second, as payback for his ill-advised demotion. What, did he speak out against Linda McMahon's U.S. Senate run? I guess we'll never know how the mind of management functions.

 

[OWEN-ing It All]

What is you're point?

My point is no wrestler can draw heat like that. Not if they belong. That's real hatred. By those in the know, who know they don't deserve to be where they are or doing what they are doing. WWE is capitalizing on this. They know why we are booing Vickie and Cole. Vickie is there because of who she slept with and not because she deserves to be there. Cole is hated because everyone knows Jim Ross and Bobby the Brain were the greatest announcers of all-time. Cole isn't even a "wrestling guy" he's a former newscaster. With no pizzazz. Dull, annoying, but that makes him hated. WWE is running with that.

No, consistency plays a major factor here. Was Brock cheered every night? No, one night means nothing.

He was always cheered. Because he was so damn impressive. He destroyed people. He started with Oooohhs and Aaaaahhhhs and then was cheered slowly then more and more and more.

From then on he became a face. lol

The crowd care little about it. In fact, rewatch it. It was mysteriously silent during that entire segment.

Sure sure.

One night. CONSISTANCY.

Like how you consistently misspell consistency?

You didn't. I gave you reasoning for each one of those pushes and you cannot find a way around it. Wrestling hour long matches mean nothing if the crowd isn't behind you.

Do you know who Shane McMahon is? Never wrestled a match before, no one cared to see him wrestle. First match.....Gained respect. Created a name for himself as a wrestler. The assumption being going in that he couldn't perform. Quickly proved people fans wrong. Had matches here and there. Developed a cult following. People realized he had serious ability and was more than just daddy's son.

People care about quality matches. Even if you don't.

If you don't understand why Cena is where he is, you don’t understand pro wrestling.

I know why Cena is where he is. All the big names left, they breed a new face and crammed him down the kids throats.

"I can always make another John Cena." - Vince Mcmahon

You cannot just make another Cody Rhodes or Dolph Ziggler.


No. Rhodes or Ziggler do not draw. They are paying to see Rock and Cena. Had the WWE wanted these guys to be advertised, they'd be on the Mania poster with Rock and Cena.[/QUOTE]

WTF are you talking about? The Mania main event has been advertised for almost a year. It should just be those two on the front.

Because it was a throw away show. Which means nothing important happened.

The night after a PPV is never a throw away show.

I listened last night, Cody nor Ziggler were over...in anyway.

You are defining it differently.

No one cared about her. Never. She was never over.

I never said they did or she was.

K. What about the day after? Or the month after? It's not worth pushing them only for Wrestlemania.

Rhodes has main evented before. It's not something new. They don't doubt him. They know what he means to the company.

But haven't won the crowd over. They need more time.[/QUOTE]

Rumble and bragging rights is all they need.

Manager.

He was still wrestling at this point. He wasn't a full time manager until late 94-early 95. Bret became champion in 1992.

Druggie.

You or him?

One.

Funny how Ziggler has always been compared to Mr. Perfect. Hence the perfection gimmick. But you don't seem to mind that Perfect needed Heenan. Perfect was great on the mic, like Dolph. But he never generated heel heat. Heenan did that. He went up against all top babyfaces (you don't seem to mind that though, but do for Cody). Isn't that what top guys should be doing?

No.

Martel was a great heel.

Three. Three guys who had skills and they feuded with Hart.

The Undertaker didn't feud with Hart until 1997. I really wouldn't even call it a feud. If we are talking about 1992 and the emergence of Bret Hart and who else was capable at the time, why would you reference 1997?

I suppose you don’t have a mirror.

Woahhhh, You're only smoke and mirrors. You need a paper bag.

The crowds loved that. Isn't that what you call being over?

You want him to be the dastardly villain like Sergeant Slaughter was when he faced Hogan @ WM7. Or Jake "The Snake" was against Macho Man.

Those days are gone. "It's True, It's True."

Because good heels, become fan favorites. Because being good at what you do gets you respect. It's that simple.

Dolph is playing that up. "How damn good am I? Huh?"

That's his character. That's what you're not getting. I keep repeating. Yet you keep misunderstanding.

Dolph has never done anything to get any kind of heat at all. He just now started to stand on his head to get a little reaction from the crowd. But not nearly enough of a reaction.

He doesn't even try to get heat. He just keeps plugging the facts. "It's not bragging, if you can back it up."

He doesn't yell at the fans. He doesn't call them names. He doesn't tell them to shut up. He's just a cocky arrogant guy who backs it up with a heel manager.

Wouldn't be hard to make him a full time face would it? Give Vickie the boot or shove down Michael Cole.


Sure it does. If you're over, you’re deserving of a World Title push. Especially when you've already held the WWE title twice. Sheamus is successful. That's the difference between Rikishi and Hornswoggle.

Cody isn't over. And Cody vs. Kane just screams boring.

He is and I was saying Sheamus vs. Kane. Not Cody vs. Kane.

Sheamus vs. Christian. Sheamus vs. Brayan. Sheamus vs. Undertaker. Anyone of those would do.

Sheamus vs. Christian......again?
The pre-show match from last years Wrestlemania is your main event?
So you want Sheamus to turn heel again? After all this BS about how he's soooooo over as the 2nd top face. WTF?!?!


It's still one of the top draws. Are Dolph or Cody top draws, no.

Cody has already been plugging the Rumble.

They'd be stupid to waste someone as over as Sheamus on the pre-show.

They've used their Money In The Bank winners on pre-shows. Haven't they?

I was joking anyway.....I said it.

So he shouldn't be winning the Rumble. Thanks for proving my point.

I never said he should win the Rumble. lol

For the record, you haven't made any points. Just pointless ignorant banter.

They're pushing him. Normally, if they had nothing for a certain superstar to do, he wouldn't be featured. Yet Sheamus is featured on every show. They want him pushed. Yet Christian was injured and they have no one to face him.

Ziggler has been on every show. Sometimes wrestling twice. Haven't you noticed he's been main eventing? Or that he's been throwing his name in the World Title picture?

Second top baby face on Smackdown. It wasn't too long ago Sheamus was teaming with Orton and Cena getting huge reactions.

This is a recent thing and has more to do with injuries than anything else. But injuries heal. When Taker, Mysterio, Sin Cara, Christian (yes he's a heel but he still gets cheered more than Sheamus Evvvvvverrrrr will) come back..... Where will that leave Sheamus? 7th top face? lmfao. 8th top reaction?

Undertaker
Randy Orton
Rey Mysterio
Daniel Bryan
Sin Cara
The Big Show
Sheamus

Sheamus is not winning the Royal Rumble. Period. End of Story.

Unless the winner is going to be guaranteed an Intercontinental Title Match.

Why? Explain to me why? He's credible, wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyy over and has the higher ups in the back for support.

He helped put over Zack Ryder didn't he? Helped get him mainstream exposure. Featured on ever show sometimes twice. Yet they don't think he's over, so they just put him out there as much as possible. lol

He's been in back to back main events......throwing his name in the title picture. He has been featured with the top stars of both shows hasn't he?

The sooner you accept he's getting pushed to the top the easier the blow to your ego will be.

You don't give someone accolades like that and hope they get over in the process. see Jack Swagger. They gave him the World Title and hoped he would eventually get over, he didn’t. They took the title off him quickly.

Yet another example of the WWE failing. It had nothing to do with Swagger. He should have beaten Cena on Raw not a beaten and battered Jericho on a taped edition of Smackdown. That was once again wwe dropping the ball.

He wasn't ready. If he was ready, he would've found a way to stay over. Del Rio lacks what it takes to be a good heel. His character of a good looking rich guy is perfect, he should’ve stayed over.

When you dilute his credibility in the ring then no one will stay over. He should have had one 4 or 5 month reign. Not two reigns lasting 3 months.

It's his fault. A character in wrestling knows how to stay over. The writers have shit to do with it.

Ok Vince Russo. Whatever you say.

That's complete horse shit. If you don't understand why Cena is where he is, then you don't understand how prowrestling works.

Pro wrestling, I know what that is. It used to be what I watched on Monday Nights. But don't you casual fans call it something else now? Sports entertainment? Or something?

I mean I wouldn't want you to get kicked out of the "Chain Gang" or anything. What would your fellow "Hulkamaniacs" and "Little Warriors" think of you then?

Don't worry "Little Jimmy".......keep your Rise Above Hate shirt on. I want to be able to "see you". Then I can laugh in your face.

You are the 25%.

ROTFLMFAO............HAhahahahahahahahahahhahaha

Hated by IWC marks who do not matter.

I detest that IWC term shit. So lame......like tweeners....and smarks.....and marks......and universe........and all that bullcrap lingo that has become commonplace.

But, but why? He wrestled his ass off like Ziggler and Rhodes?

They didn't feature him as often back then as they should have. Raw didn't start until 93 and while he was a staple on there. He was frequently off television. Injuries, and the alleged steroid incident. Less PPVs back then too. Less tv time overall. DUHHHHHHH

I would love some kind of figure that proves hardcore fans make up 75% of Wrestlemania's audience.

I would like some sort of figure that proves Sheamus = Ratings.......because he doesn't. Unless WWE is somehow relying soley on you and the dozens and dozens of Sheamus fans to make money.

Cena and Rock were at the top of the WWE at one point or another. The Hardcore fans hate that. That's why the WWE chooses not to listen to idiots like that.

Hardcore fans don't hate being at the top. They hate what you do once you get there. These stupid "Here comes my finisher taunts" are getting out of hand.

"He's hulking up"
"Tuning up the band"
"Boom, Boom, Boom"
"You can't see me."
"Stomp, Stomp, Stomp"
"It's nap time."
"Beat chest, beat chest, beat chest"

Eventually so will "Woo, woo, woo"........you know it.......everyone does. If Ryder strays from what made him original, then he will become stale. Like every other child friendly face. Same goes for Punk. Y2J is going to turn a lot of Punks fan base against him. That's a fact.

Why doesn't it? If you're going to sell out a show, shouldn't your most popular superstars main event?

No. They should be featured. But not necessarily main event.

Main event like Ziggler has been?

But still draw midcard heat. How can anyone be trusted to carry the WWE that doesn't draw any heat?
2 matches in back-2-back ppvs? If he wasn't over why would you book him so often? Why would he hold the US title for so long?

Because he deserves to be champion. Because he is talented and can put on solid matches. You just plug him in anywhere against anyone and he puts on a great show.

How about the fact that Cody and Ziggler were trying to give those titles prestige again. Or do you not remember Cody saying that? And Dolph implying that?

Back in the day those titles were as prestigious as the World titles. It meant more. Thanks to these 2 it means something again.

The best wrestlers make their opponents look good. He makes Ryder look better than he is. He made the Great Kahli look good for crying out loud.

Bret Hart made Doink The Clown look great. Probably the only match he ever had worth remembering.

Triple H made Taka Michinoku look good.

Kurt Angle made John Cena look good.

Randy Orton is putting Wade Barrett over (again).

That's called putting someone over.

Being buried is what happened to Jack Swagger, Alberto Del Rio, Dean Douglas, Skip, Taz. (obviously I mean in WWE)

They were made to look weak and that's hard for people to recover from. They won't be taken seriously.

Building someone up and having them never win a big match once they are there or cheat every time out. Let their in ring abilities speak for themselves.

OVER means believability. That you belong in there. I don't know what you define it as......

That's fucking stupid. When Sheamus won the King of the Ring, he was on the rise. What happened after can certainly be questioned but Sheamus was the best pick to win.

He wasn't the best pick to win. It was only to have "King Sheamus" vs. "The King Of Kings"....but they scrapped that. If that was the only reason for him winning, then he was not the best pick to win.

Alberto Del Rio was. He wouldn't even have needed to win the Royal Rumble. They could have just let him keep building jis momentum.

What about Triple H, The Rock, Cena, Orton?

They were already top guys when they won. It didn't elevate them by winning. They were just staying in the spotlight.

No, they need to work more to get over. A few ohhhhs and awws wont get you anywhere in the WWE. You need heat. How hard is it to understand?

Did fine for Brock Lesnar, didn't it?

Lesnar destroyed guys. He was a wrecking machine. Spike Dudley, The Hardy Boys, Bob Holly.........he powerbombed, F-5'd, German Suplexed his way to the top. From ooohs and aaahss to KOTR to WWE Champion.

Understand THAT.

Dolph Ziggler is not. He cannot do shit without Vickie next to his side. She isn't always going to be there for Dolph to fall back on. Rhodes needs more heat. That's what they're doing wit him. Randy Orton and Booker T are two incredibly over faces. The WWE obviously sees something in Cody, but they're also trying to get him heat hence the reason he's feuding with two over faces like Booker and Orton. Can you not see that?

You are saying that facing the top face on Smackdown and 2 future Hall Of Famers is a sign he is not a top heel? That makes sense. lmao

His feud with Booker had nothing to do with what you're implying. Booker has gone on record praising Cody Rhodes. It was a one more match type of thing.

None of which are that over enough to go to Wrestlemania and compete with The Rock vs. John Cena. Dolph Ziggler vs. Daniel Bryan will be hugely over shadowed by The Rock and Cena. I'm sure the WWE doesn't want that.

Come on dude, every match is going to be overshadowed by that. The Rock vs Cena and Punk vs. Y2J are going to overshadow everything. 2 generational matches.

I'm fine with a Jericho win.

So am I.

I've spent my time with a blind mark tha doesn't understand that you need to be over to earn a Rumble win. Instead of getting over in the process, you need to be over before. I'm done explaining this to you. Dolph and Rhodes aren't ready until they prove they can draw heat on a consistant basis. So far, they have not.

We clearly have different definitions of being "over".

 

[JerichoHolic00]

Well I would like to see Kane win it as he has always been such a presence in the Rumble match but never won it so it would be nice to see him win it. I'm also a huge Dolph Ziggler mark so I would love to see him win it and get a shot at CM Punk or Daniel Bryan at Wrestlemania (either match could steal the show). I Think maybe Kane deserves it though and Ziggler will most likely win the MITB in 2012.

 

[#hamler]

OWEN-ing It All....Sigh...

I simply skimmed over your post. You're really grasping at straws here. There's no way around it, if you’re not over you shouldn't be main eventing. Cody Rhodes and Dolph Ziggler need to keep feuding with bigger stars before you suddenly push them to the main event. You've pulled numbers out of your ass with absolutely nothing to back that up. You keep saying that Ziggler and Rhodes are taking the old school path which means they should spend time getting over. Sure they've earned my respect but if you are not over with the crowd you shouldn't be winning the Royal Rumble. You've spun that every which way you possibly can and I'm sick of reading bullshit responses with nothing to back them up.

Wrestling changes. Just because you can wrestle a long match doesn’t mean you should be winning World Titles. Rhodes and Ziggler obviously have a bright future but it is way too soon for either of them to win the Royal Rumble. Get over it. Sheamus has way more of a chance to win the Rumble than either of these guys because he's massively over. He doesn't come out to complete silence when he's on Raw. The crowd continuously chants his name when his on the defense in a match. He's been pushed before and there's absolutely no reason for him not to be pushed now.

For someone to be considered over, you need them to be consistant - there's no way around it. Getting heat only when you want it is just about the dumbest statement ever posted on these forums. A dew months back, Vickie Guerrero couldn't get a word out - that's how massively over she is. Dolph Ziggler and Cody Rhodes should be doing something to get them over besides wrestling a few overrated matches. Longetivity doesn't equal great title reign either. They've both hardly done anything memorable with their respective titles.

They're not winnning the Royal Rumble. Get over yourself.

 

[XXJJ]

They gave the RR win last year to a upcoming guy in Del Rio.. and that didn't turn out so great.

I'm a big fan of Ziggler and Rhodes, but I would be surprised if either won the Rumble. IMO they both have a better shot at winning MITB briefcase this year. I think Orton wins the rumble this year.

 

[OWEN-ing It All]

OWEN-ing It All....Sigh...

I simply skimmed over your post. You're really grasping at straws here. There's no way around it, if you’re not over you shouldn't be main eventing. Cody Rhodes and Dolph Ziggler need to keep feuding with bigger stars before you suddenly push them to the main event. You've pulled numbers out of your ass with absolutely nothing to back that up. You keep saying that Ziggler and Rhodes are taking the old school path which means they should spend time getting over. Sure they've earned my respect but if you are not over with the crowd you shouldn't be winning the Royal Rumble. You've spun that every which way you possibly can and I'm sick of reading bullshit responses with nothing to back them up.

Wrestling changes. Just because you can wrestle a long match doesn’t mean you should be winning World Titles. Rhodes and Ziggler obviously have a bright future but it is way too soon for either of them to win the Royal Rumble. Get over it. Sheamus has way more of a chance to win the Rumble than either of these guys because he's massively over. He doesn't come out to complete silence when he's on Raw. The crowd continuously chants his name when his on the defense in a match. He's been pushed before and there's absolutely no reason for him not to be pushed now.

For someone to be considered over, you need them to be consistant - there's no way around it. Getting heat only when you want it is just about the dumbest statement ever posted on these forums. A dew months back, Vickie Guerrero couldn't get a word out - that's how massively over she is. Dolph Ziggler and Cody Rhodes should be doing something to get them over besides wrestling a few overrated matches. Longetivity doesn't equal great title reign either. They've both hardly done anything memorable with their respective titles.

They're not winnning the Royal Rumble. Get over yourself.

Should I take my apology now or later?

Back-to-Back-to-Back MAIN EVENTS........and a WWE Championship Match in his future.

"How damn good am I, huh?"

Where was your boy Sheamus on Raw tonight? Did he get pushed so hard and fast that he was knocked off my tv screen? lmfao

2012 is the year of the Youth Movement.

 

[#hamler]

Should I take my apology now or later?

Back-to-Back-to-Back MAIN EVENTS........and a WWE Championship Match in his future.

"How damn good am I, huh?"

Where was your boy Sheamus on Raw tonight? Did he get pushed so hard and fast that he was knocked off my tv screen? lmfao

2012 is the year of the Youth Movement.

Oh yeah..................I totally forgot the Royal Rumble is taking place next week on Raw. Thanks for reminding me. No you idiot. Like I've said a thousand times before, they're testing the waters with Dolph Ziggler. You honestly think he'll win? Sad. Next week isn't the Royal Rumble 30-man match nor is it Wrestlemania. This post was over all pointless since Dolph nor Cody has yet to win the Rumble match.

As for Sheamus - if you notice, Randy Orton wasn't on Raw either. Rather strange but it certainly doesn't mean shit. There was obviously a lot of time spent on CM Punk and the whole show's focus was the WWE Champion himself.

 

[OWEN-ing It All]

Oh yeah..................I totally forgot the Royal Rumble is taking place next week on Raw. Thanks for reminding me. No you idiot. Like I've said a thousand times before, they're testing the waters with Dolph Ziggler. You honestly think he'll win? Sad. Next week isn't the Royal Rumble 30-man match nor is it Wrestlemania. This post was over all pointless since Dolph nor Cody has yet to win the Rumble match.

As for Sheamus - if you notice, Randy Orton wasn't on Raw either. Rather strange but it certainly doesn't mean shit. There was obviously a lot of time spent on CM Punk and the whole show's focus was the WWE Champion himself.

Deny, deny, deny.

It is more than fair to say, that they are doing more than testing the waters. They are putting him in the main event of the biggest Raw since the Rock was in Boston. Heavy, heavy build for this show.

WWE is saying the waters temperature is just fine if he's being put in a position to look good against or go over both the world champions......3 shows in a row.

It's possible the Z-Man wins on Raw next week. If he doesn't, he's gonna be the favorite to win the Rumble. Either way he's getting a solid push.

Kinda strange? Kinda like he's not being pushed. Except for the IC Title reign he will get, cuz Cody needs to drop his title before he gets his first world title run.

 

[#hamler]

Deny, deny, deny.

Not denying anything. This is a Royal Rumble PPV thread. Point blank. In no way does a WWE Title match next week mean a Royal Rumble victory is in Dolph's immediate future. If anything, like last year's Rumble pay-per-view, Dolph will face the champion in a losing effort and continue on his way.

It is more than fair to say, that they are doing more than testing the waters. They are putting him in the main event of the biggest Raw since the Rock was in Boston. Heavy, heavy build for this show.

How did this show have any type of heavy build? A main event wasn't even advertised. Nothing was advertised last week for this week's Raw other than CM Punk and Chicago. Not exactly a huge Raw in any way.

WWE is saying the waters temperature is just fine if he's being put in a position to look good against or go over both the world champions......3 shows in a row.

Look good - testing the waters. One in the same. That's all they’re doing. Like when Ziggler faced Edge last year, he was on a incredible roll. In fact, this is the exact same position he was in last year.

It's possible the Z-Man wins on Raw next week.

No it isn't. WWE is doubting Punk's mass appeal. What the fuck makes you think Ziggler will draw anymore ratings than the very over CM Punk.

If he doesn't, he's gonna be the favorite to win the Rumble. Either way he's getting a solid push.

Solid push like John Morrison earlier this year.

Kinda strange? Kinda like he's not being pushed.

I was talking about Orton moron.

Except for the IC Title reign he will get, cuz Cody needs to drop his title before he gets his first world title run.

Cody needs to get himself over more if he expects to win a world title and represent the company at Wrestlemania. It isn’t his time.

 

[slice_of_life]

I voted for Sheamus. They have just been building him for too long and he is too over for them not to take the next step with him. I also think it will be him because of the rumor CM Punk is champ come WM time and is feuding with Jericho.

I expect strong showings from Cody Rhodes (though I think Booker eliminates him), Ziggler, Barrett, and Brodus Clay. This is, of course, without stating the obvious like Randy Orton.