Wrestlemania failed on every level from a fans perspective.

[Sedated]

Let's put this to the test shall we? I have a graph here.

John Cena has been on Raw since 2005. Between '05 and the first half of '07 ratings remained relatively similar, if anything they increased. In the second half they dropped significantly. In 2008 the ratings bottomed out, and in 2009 increased significantly, before returning to late 2007 levels in 2010. In 2011 ratings dropped by less than 0.1, which I don't consider especially noteworthy. I don't have figures for 2012 and I cannot be bothered to find them.

In Cena's time on Raw there have been noticable drops on two occasions. One in 2007, fitting in exactly with the Benoit double murder suicide. The other in 2010, which followed an oddly high year, considering the ratings of the years immediately before and after it. Ratings dropping with John Cena is not a trend that can be determined looking at the numbers. They remain relatively similar or drop in isolated incidents.

Average ratings in 2012 were 3.0, I already posted it.

Here, watch this:

Ratings since John Cena first appeared have decreased - Fact.
Ratings since John Cena first appeared have increased - Bullshit.

You can come up with all the excuses in the world, you'll never change either of those statements.

 

[CH David]

Average ratings in 2012 were 3.0, I already posted it.

Here, watch this:

Ratings since John Cena first appeared have decreased - Fact.
Ratings since John Cena first appeared have increased - Bullshit.

You can come up with all the excuses in the world, you'll never change either of those statements.

Except they were actually increasing from 2005-2007. John Cena was the focus. Fact.

 

[Sedated]

If WWE were to turn Cena heel, who would he be catering to? Heels don't draw, and nor have they ever, so someone would have to step up to fill the "face of the company" role that Cena will leave behind. Punk has shown repeatedly in the past that he can't draw like Cena, and neither can Sheamus and Orton, so what would happen is that ratings would definitely go down.

Now we're pretending heels have never been able to be the top dog before.

 

[Sedated]

Except they were actually increasing from 2005-2007. John Cena was the focus. Fact.

So you're saying that Cena used to be a draw and then lost his appeal due to repeating the same old shtick over and over and over again? I can agree with this.

 

[ProWrestlingFan]

If WWE were to turn Cena heel, who would he be catering to? Heels don't draw, and nor have they ever, so someone would have to step up to fill the "face of the company" role that Cena will leave behind. Punk has shown repeatedly in the past that he can't draw like Cena, and neither can Sheamus and Orton, so what would happen is that ratings would definitely go down.

WCW - Hulk Hogan, Kevin Nash, Scott Hall, WWE- HHH, Brock Lesnar...all were top guys and they were "heels".

 

[braveh]

If WWE were to turn Cena heel, who would he be catering to? Heels don't draw, and nor have they ever, so someone would have to step up to fill the "face of the company" role that Cena will leave behind. Punk has shown repeatedly in the past that he can't draw like Cena, and neither can Sheamus and Orton, so what would happen is that ratings would definitely go down.

There it is. True.

Well maybe Orton a couple of times. When we look at him we don't see what it is but the guy had that thing that made him a draw for quite some time.

And I think the outsiders were a draw before nWo. And Hogan was a draw in nWo.

 

[Lee]

If WWE were to turn Cena heel, who would he be catering to? Heels don't draw, and nor have they ever, so someone would have to step up to fill the "face of the company" role that Cena will leave behind. Punk has shown repeatedly in the past that he can't draw like Cena, and neither can Sheamus and Orton, so what would happen is that ratings would definitely go down.

nWo

 

[Sedated]

WCW - Hulk Hogan, Kevin Nash, Scott Hall, WWE- HHH, Brock Lesnar...all were top guys and they were "heels".

Shhhh, don't bring logic into this discussion. Logic has no place here.

 

[CH David]

So you're saying that Cena used to be a draw and then lost his appeal due to repeating the same old shtick over and over and over again? I can agree with this.

I'll take a line from that KnowYourRole dude, nice way to twist my words. You know exactly what fucking happened in 2007 to drive people away from the business. Not even a young Austin or Hogan in today's times would've kept people watching after the Benoit debacle. They didn't drop because of Cena. Like I've said, people can hate Cena all they want. But they still watch him to see him lose. They still pay attention to what he does day in and day out. If they didn't care, he wouldn't get any reaction at shows and people would turn the channel when he was on their tv. That doesn't happen.

 

[Bernkastel]

Average ratings in 2012 were 3.0, I already posted it.

Here, watch this:

Ratings since John Cena first appeared have decreased - Fact.
Ratings since John Cena first appeared have increased - Bullshit.

You can come up with all the excuses in the world, you'll never change either of those statements.

You mean when Punk was champ for the whole year, and Cena constantly kept losing? All that demonstrates is that when Cena is losing and the Champ Isn't Here, ratings go steadily go down, but when Cena is superman every other match and "being pushed down our throats" ratings steadily go up... as shown in those ratings spikes in 2005-2007 and 2008-2009 when Cena was mostly champ.

 

[Shocky]

And still everyone throws ratings out there without knowing the slightest bit of what they actually represent.

And I'm a 30 something, the Attitude Era was a steaming pile of shit with just the right amount of good stuff on top to make it bearable.

 

[Bernkastel]

nWo

WCW - Hulk Hogan, Kevin Nash, Scott Hall,

And what happened to WCW again?

HHH lost ratings in 2003-2004 has a drawing "heel." Brocks prime as a draw came when he was a face opposite of Angle. Nice try though... but not really.

 

[CH David]

And what happened to WCW again?

They made a lot of money then ended up shitting the bed.

 

[ProWrestlingFan]

And what happened to WCW again?

Doesn't matter. Your arguement of "Heels don't draw and were never the top guys" is false.

 

[Shocky]

And people also haven't realized that the W/WWF/E has been, and always will be, a babyface dominated company. So please spare everyone the top Heel thing. The WWE doesn't do top, strong heels. When they do, it's very rare and never for a long time. Look at the reigns of the babyfaces, this is simple to figure out.

 

[Sedated]

I'll take a line from that KnowYourRole dude, nice way to twist my words. You know exactly what fucking happened in 2007 to drive people away from the business. Not even a young Austin or Hogan in today's times would've kept people watching after the Benoit debacle. They didn't drop because of Cena. Like I've said, people can hate Cena all they want. But they still watch him to see him lose. They still pay attention to what he does day in and day out. If they didn't care, he wouldn't get any reaction at shows and people would turn the channel when he was on their tv. That doesn't happen.

Typical mark for McMahon that believes any reaction = a good reaction. It's just not true though.

and since 2007 they haven't raised ratings. I'm sure lots of people kept watching though at first and then went "You know something, I'm first going to stop watching wrestling because Benoit killed his family. So what if this is 2 years after the fact!"

I don't watch wrestling to see Cena lose. I watch wrestling less and less as a result of Cena, I don't give a shit what Cena does with him self. I don't wish him any ill will in life, I just don't care about him. I'm not interested in him, I don't want to see him on my TV. He's bad.

 

[Remix]

Average ratings in 2012 were 3.0, I already posted it.

2012, when CM Punk held the title for a year.

Ratings since John Cena first appeared have decreased - Fact.

Ratings since the Rock returned have decreased - Fact

Ratings since John Cena first appeared have increased - Bullshit.

05-early 07, 2010. Years where Cena was the focus and ratings increased.

You can come up with all the excuses in the world, you'll never change either of those statements.

The second one is demonstrably false. The first removes all context for the drops. In 2007 there is a big dropoff which due to its timing is almost certainly down to Benoit. It's not arguable that the Benoit incident caused a lot of negative press about WWE and wrestling in general. A drop of 0.4 over the two six month periods of 2007 paints the picture.

 

[Sedated]

2012, when CM Punk held the title for a year.

So Cena is only a draw when he's holding the WWE Title and with out him holding the belt people tune out even though he's there every fucking week?

 

[ProWrestlingFan]

So Cena is only a draw when he's holding the WWE Title and with out him holding the belt people tune out even though he's there every fucking week?

This ^

 

[Remix]

So Cena is only a draw when he's holding the WWE Title and with out him holding the belt people tune out even though he's there every fucking week?

No, other people draw less when they hold the title than Cena when he holds the title. CM Punk does not draw as well as John Cena.

 

[ProWrestlingFan]

No, other people draw less when they hold the title than Cena when he holds the title. CM Punk does not draw as well as John Cena.

So what? People only watch wrestling to see a "title match"?

 

[CH David]

Typical mark for McMahon that believes any reaction = a good reaction. It's just not true though.

I never said any reaction is a good reaction. A negative reaction means people want to see him lose. No reaction means people don't care. That's how wrestling works.

and since 2007 they haven't raised ratings. I'm sure lots of people kept watching though at first and then went "You know something, I'm first going to stop watching wrestling because Benoit killed his family. So what if this is 2 years after the fact!"

Except the ratings were up two years after the Benoit situation. Damn you aren't good at this. You are dealing with a 22 year old, remember?

I don't watch wrestling to see Cena lose. I watch wrestling less and less as a result of Cena, I don't give a shit what Cena does with him self. I don't wish him any ill will in life, I just don't care about him. I'm not interested in him, I don't want to see him on my TV.

Well then you should turn the channel and then you simply can't comment on him. See that's how it works. I don't watch certain television programs so I can't properly comment on them. If I do then I look like an uninformed ass.

He's bad.

Except he makes the most money in a company that exists to make money. But go ahead and keep telling me how bad he is.

 

[Sedated]

This ^

Ahhh so even though Cena was still challenging for the title through a lot of CM Punk's reign and was still headlining PPV's/Raw even while not feuding for the belt, it only counts if Cena actually has the belt. Well that's good to know.

 

[Bernkastel]

Doesn't matter. Your arguement of "Heels don't draw and were never the top guys" is false.

It is? Then why did WCW work themselves into a hole? Could it be that they were trying to create edgy heels and tried to market them as being cool, while creating more and more ridiculous story lines to get fans to buy into it? It isn't the heels job to draw money, it's the faces... twas my point.

WWE wouldn't make more money with a heel Cena, then they could with the current split 50/50 face Cena. Why do you think they haven't turned him?

 

[ProWrestlingFan]

Ahhh so even though Cena was still challenging for the title through a lot of CM Punk's reign and was still headlining PPV's/Raw even while not feuding for the belt, it only counts if Cena actually has the belt. Well that's good to know.

I know. If Cena is on the card he should be able to draw, doesn't matter who the champion is.