Wrestlemania failed on every level from a fans perspective.

[Sedated]

Or he could just change his character up some. He doesn't have to turn heel. He just has to put a little edge to himself.

That could potentially work too but instead we get the same old Cena year after year after year.

 

[Poop Master Flex]

What in the fuck? 3 million people = 3 million people.

Yes but the rating depends on how many households get that network. So if 3 million people on spike watch raw and spike is in lets say 12 million households then it will be higher than USA if 3 million people watch it and USA is in lets say 20 million households. That's why WWC in Puerto Rico can get a 15.0 rating on whatever network its on, or how AWA often got a 25.0 rating.

 

[PsychoBlack]

I guess, since ratings seem to be steadily rising. Whatever's good for business. But from reading this thread I doubt you'd actually know anything about that. Cena sucks, and Punk should be the face of the business right?

Cena's gimmick has changed a lot in the last 10 years. I know you know this ech, but some people seem to forget he was the prototype then the rapper then he was the marine then he was a superhero type guy now he's just a regular dude who likes to scrap

 

[KnowMyRole-ShutYourMouth]

So John Cena spending time with kids with severe illnesses, some terminal, and giving them a shining ray of light by seeing their hero, is repulsive? Fuck, you must be a sad, depressing soul.

He sure as shit ain't unentertaining. If he was, people would turn the channels or not treat him with the responses that they do. They may hate his character, but they watch the shows and PPVs so they can watch him either lose and make them happy, or win and piss them off.

No. That's not what I meant, but way to twist my words. I think it's awesome that he does all that charity work. But the propaganda machine of the WWE constantly shoving it down your throat through video packages just to get Cena over makes me sick. I feel the same way about "NBA Cares." Do it for the kids. Do it for the troops. But don't use it to try and get someone over with your audience. The kids don't deserve to be exploited.

 

[Bernkastel]

It's hilarious reading through this thread with people regurgitating what they read or hear from dirtsheet writers. The business IS down, and the product is stale. There actually used to be a cool factor to wrestling, and it's gone due to the PG era and Cena is the face of it. I'm not taking sides because there is validity in both as it isn't a black and white argument. But the piling on Sedated is a bit ridiculous. I know he said some outlandish things about Cena, but my god. Countering his ratings argument (that he factually backed up) with Wrestlemania buyrates? Acting like Cena is on Austin's level? Cena's an all time great, don't get me wrong, but there is a huge problem when your #1 guy gets at best 50/50 reactions at most, if not all shows.

Ratings don't just magically drop from the 6's and 7's to 2's and 3's, and revenue doesn't get cut in half overnight. There were several factors that went against WWE in the past decade - a gap caused by many big stars leaving, the collapse of the global economy, the tragic Benoit murders, and steroid scandals - fact is that ratings and revenue for the company have been steadily increasing over the past year or so [as been demonstrated in the thread by others] and Cena is a big reason for that.

 

[CH David]

Actually no, you don't know. You're 22 years old, you were around 6 when the attitude era was starting and even younger for the generations before that. You have no idea what you're talking about other than the rewriting of history WWE likes to show you on their DVD's.

My age has fuck all to do with what I said. But please, educate me. What don't I know? Hogan, Austin, and Rock are the three biggest stars ever in the WWF/E, true or false?

I've noticed most of you in this thread arguing for Cena are too young to really know any better. It's honestly sad if you think that the current product or Cena is what wrestling is really about. I 100% feel bad for you if you honestly feel this way.

So professional wrestling isn't about making money? John Cena doesn't make the most money in the company right now by being the best wrestler in the company?

 

[AndThat'sTheBottomLine]

He's what, an 11 time champion now?

Actually a 13 time champion if you count his 2 WHC wins.

 

[CH David]

No. That's not what I meant, but way to twist my words. I think it's awesome that he does all that charity work. But the propaganda machine of the WWE constantly shoving it down your throat through video packages just to get Cena over makes me sick. I feel the same way about "NBA Cares." Do it for the kids. Do it for the troops. But don't use it to try and get someone over with your audience. The kids don't deserve to be exploited.

Then your deal is with the WWE and not John Cena.

 

[Bernkastel]

Cena's gimmick has changed a lot in the last 10 years. I know you know this ech, but some people seem to forget he was the prototype then the rapper then he was the marine then he was a superhero type guy now he's just a regular dude who likes to scrap

And why do you think it changes? Because the business evolves, and Cena - like others - adapt their characters. Fact remains that Cena has always been good for business, while guys like Punk are just now starting to find their footing. Guys like Ziggler are still struggling to find it.

 

[Sedated]

I read just fine. Did I accuse you of claiming something else? No? Then what are you talking about?

I'm sorry, was it me who made that statement? No? Then what are you talking about?

As a matter of fact you did. You claimed I told him he didn't know how wrestling worked. Wrestling =/= averages, learn to keep track of what you say. I told him he didn't understand how AVERAGES worked, not wrestling, you said I said wrestling, do you fucking get it yet?

But let's delve into that. Just because ratings go down, that doesn't mean Cena isn't over. Furthermore, who is to say ratings wouldn't be on TNA level if Cena wasn't over?

Now you're just make wild speculations. Ratings going down over the years with John Cena isn't speculation though, it's a fact. I know you hate it but it's still a fact - Deal with it.

So ignoring for a moment your logic is incredibly flawed in I wasn't the one who made the claim, your posting averages still doesn't show Cena wasn't over, because you cannot show what ratings would be if Cena wasn't over.

Woooww. This is one of the dumbest arguments I've ever fucking heard EVER. I'm not joking, congratulations, you're one of the biggest idiots I've had the displeasure of stumbling upon in all my time on the internet.

So let me go ahead and use some "Sly" logic: You can't prove Cena is over because you don't know what ratings would be if Cena stayed off the show for 2 years. Coming up with non nonsensical arguments is real tough.

This is literally one of the dumbest arguments I've ever seen someone try to pass off, as usual I couldn't even make it through your entire post because the amount of stupid I got hit with was more than I could take.

 

[ProWrestlingFan]

And why do you think it changes? Because the business evolves, and Cena - like others - adapt their characters. Fact remains that Cena has always been good for business, while guys like Punk are just now starting to find their footing. Guys like Ziggler are still struggling to find it.

Because Punk and Ziggler were never given the chance especially CM Punk.

 

[AndThat'sTheBottomLine]

Actually no, you don't know. You're 22 years old, you were around 6 when the attitude era was starting and even younger for the generations before that. You have no idea what you're talking about other than the rewriting of history WWE likes to show you on their DVD's.

I've noticed most of you in this thread arguing for Cena are too young to really know any better. It's honestly sad if you think that the current product or Cena is what wrestling is really about. I 100% feel bad for you if you honestly feel this way.

This kind of pissed me off for obvious reasons. My Dad's been watching wrestling since the 60's and he talks about it all the time (along with Baseball, Football, Basketball) so I have some understanding of the history of the product. Age has nothing to do with it it's how much homework you've done or how well you've paid attention. I like Cena about as much as you do but he is the top draw in the company and no ratings aren't what they were but they're getting better thanks in part, to Cena.

 

[FunKay the Inevitable]

Actually no, you don't know. You're 22 years old, you were around 6 when the attitude era was starting and even younger for the generations before that. You have no idea what you're talking about other than the rewriting of history WWE likes to show you on their DVD's.

I've noticed most of you in this thread arguing for Cena are too young to really know any better. It's honestly sad if you think that the current product or Cena is what wrestling is really about. I 100% feel bad for you if you honestly feel this way.

I would find this statement offensive if it hadn't already been pointed out that you have the attitude of a 14 year old who thinks he knows everything about anything.

I would like to think that watching wrestling for over ten years would educate me and allow me to make my own decisions on who is great and who isn't and quite frankly in that time period I have grown to find John Cena to be a phenomenal talent who gives his all.

You have shown on the other hand to have a poor grasp of the reality of the past ten years of wrestling history and displayed an ignorance and arrogance that has left you fit for parody.

 

[Bernkastel]

If you think I ever said CM Punk should be the face of the business you obviously haven't read the thread. I think CM Punk is over rated and not anywhere near as good as people want to pretend he is.

I get it now though, finally after year 9 of Cena's same old shit gimic things really started to catch on and ratings went up a bit. It had zero to do with Lesnar and Rock returning. Please teach me more about wrestling and make more assumptions.

Nope, I took a guess. There's no one other than Cena capable of being the face of the industry right now. Punk couldn't draw like Cena, and Ziggler has yet to break through. Who else is left, Orton? Nope. Sheamus? Nope. Big Show? LOL.

Ratings have been going up steadily since before Brock/Rock/Jericho/HHH returned, and it'll keep going up after they're all gone again. The only one making assumptions here is you.

 

[PsychoBlack]

I have a solution to this. Sedated, If you want to continue to cry and bitch and be apart of that "small group of 30 year olds" just stop watching the product. I love game of thrones to death but if Sansa Stark got murdered next week I'd stop watching it because that's ******ed and not at all what happened in the book.

GTFOH with all your WWE bashing. You sound stupid, Cena is a cash cow he won't turn heel. He won't just undergo a drastic gimmick change because he's making more than anyone in the business right now. People come to see him whether they boo him or cheer him they still pay their hard earned money to come see the guy

 

[Bernkastel]

Because Punk and Ziggler were never given the chance especially CM Punk.

This isn't a serious comment is it? Punk is already a 5 time world champion, how many chances does he need to succeed? Ziggler's on his chance, but his rise has clearly been less than stellar.

 

[ProWrestlingFan]

GTFOH with all your WWE bashing. You sound stupid, Cena is a cash cow he won't turn heel. He won't just undergo a drastic gimmick change because he's making more than anyone in the business right now. People come to see him whether they boo him or cheer him they still pay their hard earned money to come see the guy

So was Hulk Hogan...Yet WCW turned Hogan heel.

 

[Sedated]

I would find this statement offensive if it hadn't already been pointed out that you have the attitude of a 14 year old who thinks he knows everything about anything.

I would like to think that watching wrestling for over ten years would educate me and allow me to make my own decisions on who is great and who isn't and quite frankly in that time period I have grown to find John Cena to be a phenomenal talent who gives his all.

You have shown on the other hand to have a poor grasp of the reality of the past ten years of wrestling history and displayed an ignorance and arrogance that has left you fit for parody.

Sorry, you're too young to have seen any good wrestling for the most part. It's not rose colored glasses, the 80's and 90's were much better than what we have now. That's not counting a big lull in the early - mid 90's that was probably even worse than what we have now.

You can be offended if you want, I don't really care though it's not brought up with the intent to offend you.

I'm sorry but you can't really make an honest observation about the state of the business when your knowledge of the business doesn't even stretch back to before the time frame most of us are complaining about. There is also a big difference between living through and watching the era and seeing DVD's about it after the fact.

 

[Remix]

Now you're just make wild speculations. Ratings going down over the years with John Cena isn't speculation though, it's a fact. I know you hate it but it's still a fact - Deal with it.

Let's put this to the test shall we? I have a graph here.

John Cena has been on Raw since 2005. Between '05 and the first half of '07 ratings remained relatively similar, if anything they increased. In the second half they dropped significantly. In 2008 the ratings bottomed out, and in 2009 increased significantly, before returning to late 2007 levels in 2010. In 2011 ratings dropped by less than 0.1, which I don't consider especially noteworthy. I don't have figures for 2012 and I cannot be bothered to find them.

In Cena's time on Raw there have been noticable drops on two occasions. One in 2007, fitting in exactly with the Benoit double murder suicide. The other in 2010, which followed an oddly high year, considering the ratings of the years immediately before and after it. Ratings dropping with John Cena is not a trend that can be determined looking at the numbers. They remain relatively similar or drop in isolated incidents.

 

[PsychoBlack]

So was Hulk Hogan...Yet WCW turned Hogan heel.

Hogan in WCW prior to the NWO wasn't the cash cow he was in the 80's. His heel turn occured because no one was expecting it, Everyone is waiting on Cena to turn so it won't work

 

[PsychoBlack]

Sorry, you're too young to have seen any good wrestling for the most part. It's not rose colored glasses, the 80's and 90's were much better than what we have now. That's not counting a big lull in the early - mid 90's that was probably even worse than what we have now.

You can be offended if you want, I don't really care though it's not brought up with the intent to offend you.

I'm sorry but you can't really make an honest observation about the state of the business when your knowledge of the business doesn't even stretch back to before the time frame most of us are complaining about. There is also a big difference between living through and watching the era and seeing DVD's about it after the fact.

I have entire DVD sets of certain territories I know what was going on trust me.

 

[Sedated]

This kind of pissed me off for obvious reasons. My Dad's been watching wrestling since the 60's and he talks about it all the time (along with Baseball, Football, Basketball) so I have some understanding of the history of the product. Age has nothing to do with it it's how much homework you've done or how well you've paid attention. I like Cena about as much as you do but he is the top draw in the company and no ratings aren't what they were but they're getting better thanks in part, to Cena.

You can get pissed off about it if you want to but it wont change anything. There's a big difference between being there for it and learning about it after the fact/hearing what people tell you about it. That's just the way it is.

Anyway, how are ratings getting better because of Cena? The Rock was just champion for 2 months, Cena hasn't been champion in probably close to 2 years by now. How did Cena the guy who was on the show the entire time all of a sudden start one day drawing again? It was The Rock who got some ratings back... don't be this blind.

 

[Bernkastel]

So was Hulk Hogan...Yet WCW turned Hogan heel.

If WWE were to turn Cena heel, who would he be catering to? Heels don't draw, and nor have they ever, so someone would have to step up to fill the "face of the company" role that Cena will leave behind. Punk has shown repeatedly in the past that he can't draw like Cena, and neither can Sheamus and Orton, so what would happen is that ratings would definitely go down.

 

[FunKay the Inevitable]

Sorry, you're too young to have seen any good wrestling for the most part. It's not rose colored glasses, the 80's and 90's were much better than what we have now. That's not counting a big lull in the early - mid 90's that was probably even worse than what we have now.

You can be offended if you want, I don't really care though it's not brought up with the intent to offend you.

I'm sorry but you can't really make an honest observation about the state of the business when your knowledge of the business doesn't even stretch back to before the time frame most of us are complaining about. There is also a big difference between living through and watching the era and seeing DVD's about it after the fact.

This is such a narrow point of view. You assume (and dismiss) that because I wasn't alive during the Hogan body slam or watching when Austin cut his '3:16' promo that I don't understand or appreciate but thats utter nonsense.

The same with you saying you're not viewing through rose-tinted glasses when you clearly are. You think that because you've been on the planet longer that you must be smarter, wiser and better educated than those younger than you, but that is just sheer ignorance.

 

[CH David]

Sorry, you're too young to have seen any good wrestling for the most part. It's not rose colored glasses, the 80's and 90's were much better than what we have now. That's not counting a big lull in the early - mid 90's that was probably even worse than what we have now.

You can be offended if you want, I don't really care though it's not brought up with the intent to offend you.

I'm sorry but you can't really make an honest observation about the state of the business when your knowledge of the business doesn't even stretch back to before the time frame most of us are complaining about. There is also a big difference between living through and watching the era and seeing DVD's about it after the fact.

Heeeeeeeyyyyy an old fart stroking his cock about his age because he "knows wrestling before '96" and trying to demean the opinions of those that are younger. There's this thing called the internet, and a portion of it doesn't have a WWE censored section where we can watch PPVs, television episodes, and even clips from house shows. Some of it is even on that there youtube. I hope you know how to use youtube. I do, and I've seen matches from the Golden years when Hogan was on top. Yes it was one of the top eras of professional wrestling along with the Attitude Era. We aren't fucking stupid. We have the ability to see things through our own eyes and don't have to rely on WWE issued DVDs.

Now obviously this isn't close to being the most prosperous period in professional wrestling. I actually don't even think people are saying that. What people are saying is that John Cena is not the reason for a ratings drop. This is a true statement. People can bitch about his character all they want, they are still watching to see him perform. One group hopes he loses, the other roots for him to win and will purchase his merchandise. This is a fact.

Now, professional wrestling is a business, right? Yes it is. It's all about making money, yes? John Cena makes the most money, yeah? John Cena is the best wrestler in the company. Fact.