Wrestlemania 28: John Cena VS The Rock

[Peoples_Champ]

Or maybe, just maybe, Cena is more in touch with 2012 WWE and is actually outperforming Rock?

Let's put it this way. What makes the match one year in the making so appealing is the idea of two iconic wrestling figures meeting in the ring for the first time. They need to do so as the characters that we've grown accustomed to and have formulated opinions about. That's why neither is going to "turn heel" for the match up. It's bigger if you have them as the characters they are known for. The second part is that we want and NEED these two men to be at their absolute best. What good is having anyone performing at a level below what they are capable of?

That's why I find it downright insulting and utterly laughable that anyone suggests that Rock is under-performing in an effort to split the crowd. What good would it be for the WWE to have Rock performing at a lower level? The only people suggesting this are those that have this ridiculous notion that somehow John Cena is nowhere near as talented as Rock in any capacity. That notion, at least to those attempting to be fair when seeing the last year unfold, has been thoroughly debunked. All that's left is a few Cena haters and or Rock loyalists who will swear that no matter what Rock is just on another level that Cena can't perform at. Problem is, that's just not true.

Now, I don't work for the company nor do I claim to have any inside knowledge. However, I do understand economics and I know that the goal here is to get both guys firing on all cylinders so it's a battle of who's best. You can't find out who's best if one guy is "dogging it" so that the other guy looks better. If that's true, the match means nothing so why do it?

Thus, what's "really going on" is that Cena has simply outperformed the Rock. This isn't new either. Last year at this time Cena and Rock were verbally battling and with no match imminent, many felt Cena outwitted Rock. Now they are building towards and epic match and again, that sentiment remains the same. Today I thought the Rock did well in a couple of the segments that he taped but his in ring portion was just ok. What I've come to realize, and it hasn't been easy as I was brought back to wrestling in 1998 by the Rock who was my favorite wrestler for a long time, is that the Rock in 2012 simply doesn't fit that well. He gets over on nostalgia and charisma, but his stuff isn't as funny or creative for the most part as 10 years ago. Yes, the pretapes were pretty good today, but Rock being serious hasn't worked so well and Cena has gotten the better of him. Sure, some people who can't come to grips with it will find any excuse in the book as to why Cena isn't outperforming Rock or why he is but it's because Rock is playing down to Cena but that's simply not true. Tell me what more Rock could do? What could he do that he isn't doing now?

Truth is, he threw everything but the kitchen sink out in the pre-tapes today and they were pretty good. Heck, they were even funny. He can't be serious though and that's where Cena's getting him. It's ok to admit that in 2012, Cena simply is getting the best of Rock and it's because he's a great performer. Yes, Cena is a great performer, probably one of the best I've ever seen as far as the total wrestling package. Go ahead, challenge that thought and tell me why he's not that good. I'd love to hear it.

That's too much logic for the marks that are sucking on the people's strudel.

Cena has upped his game while Rock has been relying on catchphrases and questioning Cena's sexuality. These things worked in the Attitude Era, but this era's fans have become more sophisticated. The Rock isn't connecting as well on the mic. He's superb in taped promos, but he just doesn't have the live promo down as well as he used to. Hell, he wasn't really all that entertaining at last year's WM.

That being said, I still think The Rock is entertaining as hell so far and I'm glad he's back and preforming at WM. But give Cena credit where it's due - nobody expected him to hold his own *and* get some crowd support. He's accomplished this by outperforming The Rock and exceeding everyone's expectations of him.

 

[I Heart Cena]

Did it ever occur to you that the reason Cena has been destroying the Rock is because Dwayne isn't the Rock anymore?

He isn't destroying the Rock. The Rock owned him since he came back last year, and only recently did he make himself look bad for Cena's sake. But that doesn't mean that cena is destroying him lol. It simply means that cena scored some points in what otherwise would have been a clean-sheet blowout.

These things worked in the Attitude Era, but this era's fans have become more sophisticated.

Sophisticated? LOL How so? By having cheesy segments like that empty arena promo? The reason there was no crowd noise during that segment was because the fans were booing him. But yet Rock had crowd noise during his segments.

Even with the Rock at 70% of what he used to be, he's still killing in this feud, and is still ahead in the past 3 weeks. Just because it's no longer a blowout doesn't mean he's losing.

 

[Davi323]

He isn't destroying the Rock. The Rock owned him since he came back last year, and only recently did he make himself look bad for Cena's sake. But that doesn't mean that cena is destroying him lol. It simply means that cena scored some points in what otherwise would have been a clean-sheet blowout.

Yeah, he kind of is. Cena hasn't been the one getting owned, Dwayne is. Every time Dwayne goes out there with a promo that's 10 years old, Cena owns him. The Rock is all about style, with absolutely no substance. Cena's promos are about substance rather than style. Substance > Style.

When the Rock was doing that same schtick 10 years ago, I was a huge fan of his. I loved it. I was excited to hear that the Rock would be coming back as much as anyone else...and then he came back, and delivered dud after dud in his promos. I don't give a shit that he used to be the Great One, that he used to be the most electrifying man in sports entertainment...that was then, and this is now. It's not 2002 anymore, sport. It's 2012.

 

[JJYanks121]

Yeah, he kind of is. Cena hasn't been the one getting owned, Dwayne is. Every time Dwayne goes out there with a promo that's 10 years old, Cena owns him. The Rock is all about style, with absolutely no substance. Cena's promos are about substance rather than style. Substance > Style.

When the Rock was doing that same schtick 10 years ago, I was a huge fan of his. I loved it. I was excited to hear that the Rock would be coming back as much as anyone else...and then he came back, and delivered dud after dud in his promos. I don't give a shit that he used to be the Great One, that he used to be the most electrifying man in sports entertainment...that was then, and this is now. It's not 2002 anymore, sport. It's 2012.

Thanks for saying what I would have said if I rebutted the posts that came after mine. As I said at the end of my original post, I was a huge Rock fan. Heck, I jumped out of my seat like a child when his music hit last February. However, that doesn't mean I'm going to cut him some slack when he simply can't get with the times in front of a live crowd.

The bottom line is that when the two men step in the ring, it's been Cena that has clearly had the advantage. Credit to Dwayne who did a lot better yesterday (it was short so hintedy hint that's probably a good idea moving forward) than he had previously, but since he's come back last year, his in ring stuff hasn't been great. And no, that's not on purpose. It's simply because the schtick that made him famous won't fly now. Fans today won't tolerate JUST catchphrases, you need some substance and you need to give us a reason to care about the feud you are in. We expect a lot more today than we did in 2000.

With that said, you're getting 2000 Rock and 2012 Cena. It's pretty evident which one is with the times and doing better in front of the live crowd.

 

[shattered dreams]

You people are crazy. Where is Cena's substance? He doesn't have any either. The Rock has clearly responded to Cena's criticisms. He has clearly done more than just use catchphrases. When has Cena responded to the Rock's criticisms? Pretty much never. He just keeps pretending they don't exist. Why? Probably because he can't talk about those subjects without getting booed no mater what. The only response he has had is completely stupid once you think about it. The Rock says people are sick of getting Cena shoved down their throats. Cena responds by saying, "well, I'm here every week." That is probably the worst response to that statement possible. It more or less agrees with it. Then Cena says he wants the Rock to be the Rock. Well, how is the Rock supposed to be the Rock if he isn't cutting vintage Rock promos? It sounds to me like Cena wants the Rock to come down to his level since Cena can't get up to the Rock's.

 

[ae_wrestler123]

I'm reading people talking about substance. How can their be substance in a scripted show that is designed around a fake world? Is their substance to Kane coming from under a ring to pull zack ryder down to hell? I think in a kayfabe world it is all about delivery. I don't think vince would want people to come out every night and saying all sorts of things all over the place with "substance".

 

[JJYanks121]

I debated whether I should do this then I decided, yea. let's have some fun.

You are wrong.

Bold opening statement Pesci, care to share why?

WWE does NOT want Rock firing on all cylinders because that would destroy Cena, then they would not sell as much Cena merch.

So this is about merchandise? And you think that if by some miracle Rock "owned" Cena throughout this war or words that magically half the arena (which is like 90 percent grown men) that currently wear Cena stuff will stop? And the WWE does want Rock firing on all cylinders. That's why the pre-tapes were pretty solid. Rock has always been a good writer but his live stuff is what's lacking and not because he's told to lay an egg out there.

Don't you get that? Do you honestly think the Rock was legitimately flustered? He wasn't, it was an ACT.

I told you we can agree to disagree on that, yet here I read you trying to get an edge again. Believe what you want in that regard because we'll never know for sure.

You asked "What more can Rock do than what he's doing?" Not act flustered, not let Cena talk, and tell him to know his role and shut his mouth. You know that when Rock is at his best, he will cut guys off, then bury them. But not this time because WWE won't let him.

So when the Rock talked for 20 minutes last Raw that wasn't enough? That incessant rambling about trending on twitter and poultry wasn't enough for you? What he REALLY needed to do is to pretend he didn't know Cena and say "excuse me, but you come out and interrupt Rock's promo. What's your name? IT DOESN"T MATTER WHAT YOUR NAME IS!!" and then when Cena left he tells him to know his role and shut his mouth and THAT would have made a better promo? Number 1 it doesn't erase the 20 minutes of utter crap we heard beforehand and number 2, you are still missing the point. That crap worked in 2000 but doing a promo entirely filled with catchphrases in 2012 doesn't work. Thus, Rock is trying but he keeps falling back to it. Now his catchphrases are "trending worldwide" and other such things. Problem is, no one cares really.

Yes, the match means nothing if Rock purposely dogs it. But not to the Jimmies who think it's real. More Jimmies = more $$$ for WWE.

Ah yes, I knew this one was coming. Fact is that "jimmies" or kids make up no more than 20 percent of the audience. Never have and never will. In fact, did you know that kids 12-17 made up MORE of the audience during your precious attitude era than they do now? Yeah, but either way they are the minority and you can't play to them just like you can't play solely to the IWC. Most of the audience is people 18-49 and those people are who are going to buy your show if you promote it properly. The WWE wants both guys at their best and I don't get why you won't believe that.

You want to know why Cena is not a good performer?

Sure, I'd LOVE to hear why the guy who is at the top of the food chain isn't a good performer. This ought to be good.

He is lame on the mic. He's not funny or interesting.

So a highly opinionated, vague statement is why he isn't good? And this from the guy who's username is I HATE CENA? It MUST be true!

He absolutely sucked tonite, like always. "Wow, this place is packed. Is the Rock the Situation?" Then Cena went on to explain last week's angle for those who didn't get the story that WWE is trying to tell.

Or because Cena realizes that the story is more important that silly catchphrases? Maybe that's why he tries to keep a story going? I really suggest you take off the Cena hate goggles and try and watch without a bias. It would do you wonders because the kid was good tonight, really good. Maybe not as impactful as last week when he tore Rock a new one and walked out, but it was a very solid promo and if you listened to WHY Cena called Rock the Situation, it made a ton of sense. Certainly more sense than Kung Pow bitch ever did.

Cena's explanation is solid proof that it's all a work. He specifically told everyone that Rock was flustered, and his promo rambled on.

Or the WWE, like any wrestling company ever, took what happened and made it part of the story? The Rock getting flustered is a big deal so why not use it as more fuel for the fire? Again, I'll leave this one as being subjective but it's certainly not solid proof.

If you think Cena is a good performer, then you have VERY low standards when it comes to being entertained. Go watch the Attitude Era, then compare that to Cena's work. You won't be able to sit through 1 minute of Cena after that.

You do realize that I watched every minute of the Attitude Era right? I'm 27 now so when the Attitude Era began in 1998, I was in the 8th grade. Basically, I was the perfect age for it. It was an immature, sex-laden, brawling, ridiculous show and that's the point in life I was at so I appreciated it for some time. However, by Wrestlemania 2000, I had tired of it. Now, Rock was my favorite and always was. I always liked him more than Stone Cold. However, the thing that bothered me about that era was how truly immature the programming became. When all it was about (outside the main event) was transvestites and hand birthing, and all sorts of really gross and over the top stuff, I became ashamed to be a fan of this stuff. I was 16 by that time and I outgrew the precious Attitude Era.

Truth is, the only thing to really hold up from the Attitude Era are the top stars. Foley, Rock, Austin, Triple H, and I'll give you Angle as he was a star before the AE ended in 2001. They were talented and the work they did certainly went over well in their time. However, times have changed.

I'm 27 now and when I've changed with the times just like WWE has changed with the times. But I still wanted to take your little test so I watched 10 promos and/or segments from each top star, so arguably some of the best the AE had to offer. It was over an hour of my time and I put off work to do it. Now that I have I can give this answer and be 100 percent behind it..............

John Cena holds up to every single one of those guys.

Yep, it's 2012 and I still believe that he works NOW and that stuff worked THEN. And no, that stuff wasn't g-d's gift to TV. Some of it was really good. I really liked the Triple H/Angle stuff in late 2000. I really liked Rock's promos back then as he's a funny guy. However, to say that if you watch that you will think today's product sucks? It's the opposite my friend. Watching that stuff made me realize that it was good for that point in my life but I grew up. It's not definitively "better" than anything. The fans like me who were teens during that time grew up and we expect logic, storytelling, substance, and more in our promos, matches, and wrestling stories. Cena is the master of that and if you aren't blindly hating him you can appreciate that.

I want to like you man but your username suggests that you are not someone who's willing to take the goggles off and you are unrelenting in your pursuit of trying to convince everyone that the Rock is g-d and Cena sucks. It's just not true.

They are both wonderful performers, but one understands today's product better and as a result has looked better in this feud. That's Cena. Can that change over the next few weeks? Of course. The sing/rap off should be interesting to say the least.

I was right, that was fun!

.........but let's not do it again.

 

[The Idiot]

When this match was first announced I said the Rock would end up winning. But now, it's pretty obvious to everyone that Cena will be the man to come out on top. Say what you want...but the WWE has done a DAMN GOOD JOB of hyping up this main event. It's only going to get better next week with the Rock concert and Cena rap, something Cena will probably win again.

I knew the build up wasn't going to be a problem...I just hope each can hold their own in the ring when the time comes. Hopefully Pat Patterson will come up with another genius ending as he's known to do. Miami will be pro-Rock obviously, but I just don't see him going over Cena that night.

 

[The Mighty Tiger]

I thought the die hard Rock fans could be bias at times, but these die hard John Cena fans & supporters have just took these discussions to new heights. In just 1 years time The Rock went from people talking about how he buried the whole locker room w/his return promo to now people saying that he is losing it on the mic just because John Cena got him real good 1 time. Did you John Cena fans forget all of a sudden about how Rock has been making John look like a bitch throughout this whole feud? People on here posting The Rock's catchphrases don't work anymore there outdated, & don't connect w/2012's sophisticated fans. WHAT?!!!! You mean the same catchphrases & insults that still produce revenue for the company in merchandise sales? The same catchphrases & insults that the live fans still chant at Cena & sing along w/The Rock?

John Cena fans also say that John's promos have substance, hmmm really? He comes out last week, says he loved The Rock, & he was once apart of the ppl til he got to know Dwayne Johnson. He goes on to say that DJ is nothing more than a see through son of bitch who wouldn't care if WWE's doors closed the next day. He then follow up by saying at Mania he will be facing DJ cause that's who he doesn't like, but then this week on Raw he turns around & says he wants the real Rock back & not DJ. WHAT?!!!!! That's what you Cena fans call substance in a promo & cena owning The Rock two weeks in a row? You guys can't seem to see through John's BS, he clearly can't match The Rock word for word in a real promo battle. So what does John do to cover up his obvious weakness, he pretends to act like The Rock's insults don't bother him (he takes the high ground) cause he doesn't have any come backs for Rock eating his ass up. So what John does instead of going head to head w/The Rock on the mic he takes shots at Dwayne Johnson's career choices. He has to take Rock out of character just to hang w/him on the mic, & ppl have the audacity to say Rock is losing it on the mic.

Of course Rock is gonna come back & address what John said cause that's all he talks about in his promos against him. Rock comes out speaks from the heart (AGAIN) & tell the fans that the only reason for his success is because of them, turns his attention to Cena calls him out on his lies tells him that he doesn't need anybody to fight for him cause he is a real man. Rock also talked about how John hasn't entertained majority of the fans in years saying that the only interesting thing he has done is change his damn shorts, but ppl actually have the nerve to come on here & say that all Rock's promos are just style over substance. Do you ppl really listen to what Rock really is saying are do u just only like to acknowledge when he says his catchphrases w/out listening to anything else he is talking about? I get it you John Cena fans have been desperate for John to look good over the all mighty people's champ, but don't get carried away here, John has to be underhanded just to keep up w/The Rock. It really kinda sad when you think about it, the only way for the best of this generation to keep up w/the best of the past is that you have to attack the real person not the character. John has to break keyfabe just to seem in The Rock's league. Cenation is a joke that you can't really laugh at, a person can only pity the fools that support such mediocrity.

 

[The Idiot]

The debate and intensity between the two sides is what'll make this go down as one of the greatest feuds of all time. In 10 years time we'll look back at this and say to ourselves, "Remember when they built feuds like this?"

Whether you're for the Rock or Cena, doesn't matter....you are witnessing true art by 2 of the greatest artists in sports entertainment.

This Mania could go down as the best ever.

 

[SacredMesa]

I thought the die hard Rock fans could be bias at times, but these die hard John Cena fans & supporters have just took these discussions to new heights. In just 1 years time The Rock went from people talking about how he buried the whole locker room w/his return promo to now people saying that he is losing it on the mic just because John Cena got him real good 1 time. Did you John Cena fans forget all of a sudden about how Rock has been making John look like a bitch throughout this whole feud? People on here posting The Rock's catchphrases don't work anymore there outdated, & don't connect w/2012's sophisticated fans. WHAT?!!!! You mean the same catchphrases & insults that still produce revenue for the company in merchandise sales? The same catchphrases & insults that the live fans still chant at Cena & sing along w/The Rock?

John Cena fans also say that John's promos have substance, hmmm really? He comes out last week, says he loved The Rock, & he was once apart of the ppl til he got to know Dwayne Johnson. He goes on to say that DJ is nothing more than a see through son of bitch who wouldn't care if WWE's doors closed the next day. He then follow up by saying at Mania he will be facing DJ cause that's who he doesn't like, but then this week on Raw he turns around & says he wants the real Rock back & not DJ. WHAT?!!!!! That's what you Cena fans call substance in a promo & cena owning The Rock two weeks in a row? You guys can't seem to see through John's BS, he clearly can't match The Rock word for word in a real promo battle. So what does John do to cover up his obvious weakness, he pretends to act like The Rock's insults don't bother him (he takes the high ground) cause he doesn't have any come backs for Rock eating his ass up. So what John does instead of going head to head w/The Rock on the mic he takes shots at Dwayne Johnson's career choices. He has to take Rock out of character just to hang w/him on the mic, & ppl have the audacity to say Rock is losing it on the mic.

Of course Rock is gonna come back & address what John said cause that's all he talks about in his promos against him. Rock comes out speaks from the heart (AGAIN) & tell the fans that the only reason for his success is because of them, turns his attention to Cena calls him out on his lies tells him that he doesn't need anybody to fight for him cause he is a real man. Rock also talked about how John hasn't entertained majority of the fans in years saying that the only interesting thing he has done is change his damn shorts, but ppl actually have the nerve to come on here & say that all Rock's promos are just style over substance. Do you ppl really listen to what Rock really is saying are do u just only like to acknowledge when he says his catchphrases w/out listening to anything else he is talking about? I get it you John Cena fans have been desperate for John to look good over the all mighty people's champ, but don't get carried away here, John has to be underhanded just to keep up w/The Rock. It really kinda sad when you think about it, the only way for the best of this generation to keep up w/the best of the past is that you have to attack the real person not the character. John has to break keyfabe just to seem in The Rock's league. Cenation is a joke that you can't really laugh at, a person can only pity the fools that support such mediocrity.

Thank you for saving me the time of having to type all this out. This is dead on and it's sad that the "cenation" kiddies can't understand something so simple and yet they want to call us the ones with blinders on.

 

[grantedisme]

I thought the die hard Rock fans could be bias at times, but these die hard John Cena fans & supporters have just took these discussions to new heights. In just 1 years time The Rock went from people talking about how he buried the whole locker room w/his return promo to now people saying that he is losing it on the mic just because John Cena got him real good 1 time. Did you John Cena fans forget all of a sudden about how Rock has been making John look like a bitch throughout this whole feud? People on here posting The Rock's catchphrases don't work anymore there outdated, & don't connect w/2012's sophisticated fans. WHAT?!!!! You mean the same catchphrases & insults that still produce revenue for the company in merchandise sales? The same catchphrases & insults that the live fans still chant at Cena & sing along w/The Rock?

Here we go .. Rather than grouping all of The Rock's fans together like you seem to enjoy doing with Cena's fans, let me just address your post, since most of The Rock's fans (and wrestling fans in general) seem more rational and have more objectivity than you seem to. The Rock can't have been making Cena look look a bitch through this entire feud, since he hasn't been present for most of it.

The opinions on the first few promos they had between each other were split before The Rock left. There were plenty of people who thought The Rock bested Cena, and there were those who thought that Cena did better than The Rock. Appropriately, most people who thought that Cena did better are most likely fans of Cena, and the same probably goes for The Rock. Don't blind yourself in bias by claiming that everyone saw it as one-sided as you apparently did.

I am one of those who are of the opinion that The Rock's catchphrases were never very good, and they're even worse 10 years later when The Rock can't even put them into any sensical context. The fact that the merch sells doesn't change my opinion, just as the fact that Cena's merch sells better than The Rock's right now probably doesn't change your opinion. We are both entitled to that.

John Cena fans also say that John's promos have substance, hmmm really? He comes out last week, says he loved The Rock, & he was once apart of the ppl til he got to know Dwayne Johnson. He goes on to say that DJ is nothing more than a see through son of bitch who wouldn't care if WWE's doors closed the next day. He then follow up by saying at Mania he will be facing DJ cause that's who he doesn't like, but then this week on Raw he turns around & says he wants the real Rock back & not DJ. WHAT?!!!!! That's what you Cena fans call substance in a promo & cena owning The Rock two weeks in a row? You guys can't seem to see through John's BS, he clearly can't match The Rock words for word in a real promo battle. So what does John do to cover up his obvious weakness, he pretends to act like The Rock's insults don't bother him (he takes the high ground) cause he doesn't have any come backs for Rock eating his ass up. So what John does instead of going head to head w/The Rock on the mic he takes shots at Dwayne Johnson's career choices. He has to take Rock out of character just to hang w/him on the mic, & ppl have the audacity to say Rock is losing it on the mic.

Are you watching both promos? You are completely (and conveniently for your argument) ignoring most of what Cena said in his promo. This week was all about needing to win, and saying that a win doesn't matter if it's against the new Rock who is allegedly dulled down for Cena. He said that he has to beat the old Rock to solidify his role in the company and his legacy. He didn't say he would face Dwayne Johnson because he doesn't like him, and I have no idea where he got that. He said he has a problem with Dwayne, but that was well after the match was booked. Do you remember how he proposed the match after last years mania? He billed it as an era versus and era, and for it to be that, The Rock would have to tap into the character that he had before leaving. You're ignoring all of this in an attempt at manufacturing inconsistency.

The idea behind some of us thinking that Cena is better than The Rock on the mic is how they both present themselves. The Rock is a nostalgia act that entertained us all as children. He made sex jokes, suppository jokes, and disrespected all of his opponents to the best of his ability by interrupting and name-calling. In the past, I was annoyed with Cena doing the same thing, but ever since CM Punk, he has changed his game to being a more realistic adult. Most of us don't feel that "stick your shirts up your candy ass" is an insult that warrants a "comeback". It's a juvenile insult at best, and rather than going down to that childish level, we take the high ground. Cena's promos speak to those of us who feel that way.

Of course Rock is gonna come back & address what John said cause that's all he talks about in his promos against him. Rock comes out speaks from the heart (AGAIN) & tell the fans that the only reason for his success is because of them, turns his attention to Cena calls him out on his lies tells him that he doesn't need anybody to fight for him cause he is a real man. Rock also talked about how John hasn't entertained majority of the fans in years saying that the only interesting thing he has done is change his damn shorts, but ppl actually have the nerve to come on here & say that all Rock's promos are just style over substance. Do you ppl really listen to what Rock really is saying are do u just only like to acknowledge when he says his catchphrases w/out listening to anything else he is talking about? I get it you John Cena fans have been desperate for John to look good over the all mighty people's champ, but don't get carried away here, John has to be underhanded just to keep up w/The Rock. It really kinda sad when you think about it, the only way for the best of this generation to keep up w/the best of the past is that you have to attack the real person not the character. John has to break keyfabe just to seem in The Rock's league. Cenation is a joke that you can't really laugh at, a person can only pity the fools that support such mediocrity.

The Rock speaks from the heart? Let's look at his promo on Monday: Was Rocky speaking from the heart when he said that Cena's cologne smelled like urine? What about when he said that Cena leading the American revolution would have lead to us losing it? Or that time when he said that he would use a time machine to win the revolution? You could find plenty of merit in The Rock's promos. They're funny (for lots of people), full of catchphrases that get the crowd involved, loud, and rehearsed well (sometimes). There is little-to-no heart, though. In fact, I think the WWE is actively showing that to be a conflicting principle between the two stars. The Rock is the guy who stares at the camera and makes jokes to entertain the fans, and Cena is the guy who is trying to win as a representative of his era and so he can earn the respect of the fans, his peers, and history itself.

So yeah, you're free to feel "pity" as you look at people who have opinions that differ from your's. I'm happy enjoying the program it is with both of these extraordinary stars, and I'm sorry that you can't seem to do the same.

 

[The Mighty Tiger]

Originally Posted by grantedisme Here we go .. Rather than grouping all of The Rock's fans together like you seem to enjoy doing with Cena's fans, let me just address your post, since most of The Rock's fans (and wrestling fans in general) seem more rational and have more objectivity than you seem to. The Rock can't have been making Cena look look a bitch through this entire feud, since he hasn't been present for most of it.

Yes here we go again grantedisme w/you making up stuff to try & strengthen your point of view. When did I group ALL Cena fans together "I thought the die hard Rock fans could be bias at times, but these die hard John Cena fans & supporters have just took these discussions to new heights. Now what in that statement gave you the idea that I grouped all Cena fans together, I only said die hard Cena fans not all Cena fans. You do realize that this feud wasn't going to take place on every Raw, & PPV til Wrestlemania?

The opinions on the first few promos they had between each other were split before The Rock left. There were plenty of people who thought The Rock bested Cena, and there were those who thought that Cena did better than The Rock. Appropriately, most people who thought that Cena did better are most likely fans of Cena, and the same probably goes for The Rock. Don't blind yourself in bias by claiming that everyone saw it as one-sided as you apparently did.

When I asked "Did you John Cena fans forget all of a sudden about how Rock has been making John look like a bitch throughout this whole feud"? I wasn't just talking about promo battles I was also talking about Rock laying the smackdown on Cena at Raw, Wrestlemania, & Survivor Series. If you take there interactions into account as well as the promo battles Rock has overall looked stronger then John in this feud.

Are you watching both promos? You are completely (and conveniently for your argument) ignoring most of what Cena said in his promo.

No I'm not.

This week was all about needing to win, and saying that a win doesn't matter if it's against the new Rock who is allegedly dulled down for Cena. He said that he has to beat the old Rock to solidify his role in the company and his legacy.

Yes he did say that.

He didn't say he would face Dwayne Johnson because he doesn't like him, and I have no idea where he got that. He said he has a problem with Dwayne, but that was well after the match was booked.

Last week on Raw John says "On April 1, when all the millions see John Cena vs. The Rock, John Cena is gonna be eying up Dwayne Johnson, & I don't like Dwayne Johnson. You will probably make your boobs bounce, there will be a thing on your eyebrow that looks like the people's eyebrow, but I'm gonna be looking into the eyes of Dwayne Johnson seeing a man afraid cause he is gonna be looking into a man eyes that may not have balls, but he is gonna beat the hell out of you at Mania jack." So John did say he was gonna be facing DJ one week & come out the next week talking about he needs to face the real Rock.

Do you remember how he proposed the match after last years mania? He billed it as an era versus and era, and for it to be that, The Rock would have to tap into the character that he had before leaving. You're ignoring all of this in an attempt at manufacturing inconsistency.

I'm not manufacturing anything you just have a little amnesia on what John has said throughout all his promos, & John never said The Rock would need to tap into the character that he had before leaving when he proposed the match. He has never said anything about Rock not being himself til this past Monday.

The idea behind some of us thinking that Cena is better than The Rock on the mic is how they both present themselves. The Rock is a nostalgia act that entertained us all as children. He made sex jokes, suppository jokes, and disrespected all of his opponents to the best of his ability by interrupting and name-calling. In the past, I was annoyed with Cena doing the same thing, but ever since CM Punk, he has changed his game to being a more realistic adult. Most of us don't feel that "stick your shirts up your candy ass" is an insult that warrants a "comeback". It's a juvenile insult at best, and rather than going down to that childish level, we take the high ground. Cena's promos speak to those of us who feel that way.

I understand where you & others who feel the same are coming from.

The Rock speaks from the heart? Let's look at his promo on Monday: Was Rocky speaking from the heart when he said that Cena's cologne smelled like urine? What about when he said that Cena leading the American revolution would have lead to us losing it? Or that time when he said that he would use a time machine to win the revolution? You could find plenty of merit in The Rock's promos. They're funny (for lots of people), full of catchphrases that get the crowd involved, loud, and rehearsed well (sometimes). There is little-to-no heart, though. In fact, I think the WWE is actively showing that to be a conflicting principle between the two stars. The Rock is the guy who stares at the camera and makes jokes to entertain the fans, and Cena is the guy who is trying to win as a representative of his era and so he can earn the respect of the fans, his peers, and history itself.

Rock spoke from the heart when he told Cena that he acknowledged his accomplishments, love for the business, desire to be the very best, & how he respected him. Rock spoke from the heart when he said that he was back, & never ever going away. Rock spoke from the heart when he said his heart & soul was in the WWE, & that WWE was his home. There have been others times where Rock has cut promos from the heart or have been serious, but ppl only like to mention Rock's jokes & catchphrases.

So yeah, you're free to feel "pity" as you look at people who have opinions that differ from your's. I'm happy enjoying the program it is with both of these extraordinary stars, and I'm sorry that you can't seem to do the same.

grantedisme the pity comment was a joke, & where the hell did you get the idea that I wasn't enjoying this feud? You sure do a lot of assuming, I never said anything about not enjoying this feud but yet you your sorry that I can't seem to be happy & enjoy the program. SmH

 

[RuskinArms]

Lol I don't know what I should be paying more attention to the feud between Cena and the Rock or there fans.

Any who I have got a few complaints about both wrestlers in this feud which I think is really destroying this feud. Firstly The Rock and him trying to create all of these new catchphrases, I don't like them and I don't wanna see the Rock finding new ways to make fun of Cena via Twitter. What I wanna see is the old Rock with all his old catchphrases nailing Cena. And while there have been people saying that it's not relevant, its immature, in my opinion that was one of the reasons I fell in love with wrestling in the first place because it was an escape from reality and you could laugh at things which were completely ridiculous and immature. I mean think about it, its where a bunch of grown men come out to air there dirty laundry, if it were to somewhat resemble real lives then they sure wouldn't care what a bunch of strangers thought would they. So for the sake of this feud bring back this old catchphrases and take us down memory lane one last time and if your not gonna lay them on John Cena, then for gods sake rip into Michael Cole.

Secondly the problem I have with Cena is how he handles his responses from opponents. On Raw he was smiling during the Rock's response and at one point attempted to interrupt the Rock. Now whether this kind of thing is planned or not I gotta say I don't like it as it takes away from the dialogue and what the Rock was trying to say. Also the fact that he smiles a lot, I don't know if this is part of his character or what, but I think it really takes away from the atmosphere, specifically Raw this week I think if he could of held a stare down with the Rock the intensity would of been through the roof but instead he was smiling throughout.

I guess what I'm trying to say is John Cena has obviously got one over the Rock with his writing on the arm I think it is time for Cena to take an insult from the Rock to build the evenness of this storyline. But in saying that if the Rock is gonna give us all this twitter crap then I gotta say I am not looking forward to the next few Raw's to come.

I think if these promos each week were to have a decisive winner which can alternate before finally coming to a stalemate on the final Raw would really build the match at WM. Whereas at the minute every fan boy/girl is arguing over which superstar got over who. Either way on these coming Raws there gonna need to pull their fingers out promo wise or start some physical confrontation because it is getting really lackluster.

 

[rockyrocky11]

Alright here is my idea for how Rock Cena should end. Obviously a goal for the WWE should be to make both guys look strong and I think this would accomplish that.

Have the fight go as expected back and forth with a bunch of finishers and kickouts. Then when you would think it's "next finisher wins" kind of deal, have the Rock hit the Rock Bottom and the People's elbow. Again a key would be to have this when you think it would really be over. Have the Rock think about going for the pin and the definite win, but then have his ego of wanting to destroy Cena get in the way and instead of a pin 1-2-3 he goes for the Sharpshooter!!! I think it would get a huge crowd reaction that Cena might actually tap. Obviously Cena finds a way to get to the ropes, and later hits the AA for the win.

I think doing it that way would be a great way of keeping interest, people wondering if the Rock would've won if he just went for the cover, and both athletes looking strong. What are your thoughts?

 

[TWJC: The Beginning]

Basically everyone agrees that Cena will/should win.

I think probably just as important is what happens AFTER the match. I think if they hug or shake hands or whatever it'll be dumb. I think Cena should help Rock up (Rock isn't asking for help, Cena just pulls him up), then gives him another AA. Then, as Cena is walking away, Rock is chuckling to himself.

This basically shows that there IS some respect there, but it's purely competitive and that they still don't like each other. Cena giving Rock another AA is his way of "giving in" to the Rock and not being such a good guy softie all the time.

 

[LSN80]

I can't believe over the course of a year that Ive failed to post in this thread. John Cena, my favorite wrestler of all time, in the biggest match of his life. I truly believed that this match would happen when Rock cost Cena his match at WM 27 against the Miz, but I never thought at the time that it would be a year later. At the moment, I believed that Cena would face Rock at Summerslam, or something of that nature. Over the next 24 hours, and specifically during Raw, I never considered they'ld make this match for a full year later.

Fast forward 24 hours later, and you have John Cena proposing a match to Rock for a match at WM28. I was skeptical at first, as it seemed everything Cena did in between would seem irrelevant. But the part that sold me? When Cena proposed it be for the WWE Championship. That suddenly made Cena's year incredibly relevant, We forget that part, and WWE seems to have as well. Throughout the past year, I've been of two seperate minds about this. At first, I was adamant that WWE needed to follow through on the stipulation, and that this match needed to be for the WWE Championship. I've never bought into the idea that a match is "bigger then the title", as the title is the biggest prize in the industry. So why should this match, hyped as the the "biggest" in the history of Wrestlemania, not be for the title?

But somewhere along the line, Ive changed my mind. I still believe that no match is bigger then the title, and that the title is the most important thing in the industry. But with regards to this match, you can throw all of that out the window. Why? Because it drains all the suspense from the match. The Rock, as Cena has said, likely won't be on Raw a week after Wrestlemania, so unless the plan was for Rock to drop the title the night after Wrestlemania, there's no rationale in Rock winning. Take the title out of the equation, and it's a 50/50 proposition here.

Still, Im of the mind that Cena wins here. You hear rumors of them doing a three match series, with this being the first of three. But why? Cena has said, repeatedly, that this match means everything to him. That if he loses, everything he's done in the past means nothing. So why would another match hold as much meaning? What importance would it have.

The fact remains is that Cena will be here long term following Wrestlemania. Rock will not. These two will tear each other apart come Wrestlemania, but Cena will win this match. Rock gains nothing by winning this match, and Cena gains a tremendous charater boost by beating arguably the biggest star of the Attitude Era. Cena's won the battle of the promos, and come Wrestlemania and 3 AA's later, he'll have won this match as well.

Will it be the biggest match in Wrestlemania history, as it's been hyped? No. But somewhere in the top 5 isn't bad.

 

[Kcorthe]

The argument that I see most often for Cena going over The Rock is that Cena is full-time and Rock is part-time, and that Rock going over Cena would “make no sense” and “accomplish nothing.” Allow me to disagree.

While there is an argument to be made for Cena going over, I believe the right choice for April 1st in Miami is Rock getting his hand raised.

The argument for John Cena beating The Rock is mostly based around the fact that The Rock will be leaving after WrestleMania, and that John Cena will still be around, having to sell out house shows and draw ratings and etc. But I ask you, will Cena really be that damaged by taking a loss at WrestleMania XXVIII? John Cena has been an established wrestler for the better part of the last decade. Does he really need one more big victory over The Rock to be “truly established”? I say, no. I say Cena can take this loss just fine and move on from it. At SummerSlam 2005, the argument was made that Shawn Michaels just needed to defeat Hulk Hogan, because Michaels was full-time and Hogan was part-time. However, as we all know, Hogan went over on that night, and left the very next night (just like Rock after ‘Mania this year), and what happened to Shawn? He was just fine. He moved on the very next night into a new program, and even went right back to being a babyface.

Cena does not need this win. In fact, I argue that Rock needs the win even more. Rock is rumored to wrestle again at WrestleMania 29 next year. Not only that, but some suspect he could wrestle even before that, possibly at this year’s SummerSlam in Los Angeles. Considering the fact that the majority of today’s WWE audience has only seen The Rock wrestle one time (Survivor Series 2011) in their whole life, I argue that Rock needs to look strong coming out of WrestleMania 28, in order to be taken seriously by today’s casual fan for his next match (which hopefully is not against John Cena). Quite simply, today’s fan knows that John Cena is “Superman” and can rebound from anything. But what do they know about The Rock other than he is a big movie star and entertaining on the microphone? If Rock is going to wrestle another match after April 1, 2012, he needs to look strong for that match.

One more point. Even more so that my previous point, the biggest reason that The Rock should go over John Cena is so that Cena can undergo some much-needed character development. Does that mean a heel turn? Maybe, but that is unlikely at this point, I think. Heel turn or not, John Cena’s character needs to move on and the best way to do that is to taste defeat at the hands of The Rock.

What does John Cena defeating The Rock accomplish? Sure, it shows to the casual fan that Cena wins again, this time over a part-timer whose wrestled once in the last 8 years. I might not be stating this argument if WWE had better built-up The Rock as one of the best ever, a legend, and maybe even mentioned that he is a former 9-time world champion (which they haven’t touched on a single solitary time). But since WWE hasn’t bothered to mention any of that, Cena’s win over The Rock is just that. Another win. The next week, the world moves on, and John Cena is right back where he was before The Rock entered the picture. In my opinion, less is accomplished with a Cena win.

Now, if Rock wins, that opens so many more avenues for John Cena and the WWE to travel. A heel turn would be my choice, but since I consider that unlikely, even a different, conflicted, determined John Cena after WrestleMania could at least freshen his character and lead to some more interesting developments that could arise post-‘Mania.

In conclusion. WWE, the viewer, and John Cena gains more from a Rock victory on April 1st.

I will say, however, that my second choice would be Cena winning via cheating tactics. Either this or a Rock victory forces some character development for Cena, who has been stale since 2006, in my opinion.

 

[Gore Illa]

What does Rock gain by winning? He will not be around for anymore matches in the immediate future. Plus he's getting stale anyway.

I do agree that Cena should win in a way that sets him up for a heel run. They don't need him in the main event anymore, and after a decade in the WWE, and about 7 or 8 years with the same gimmick more or less, they need to refresh him.

I will say the WWE has done an excellent buildup with this match. Either outcome is so predictable, it's unpredictable, if that makes sense. However the minute after the bell rings for the match to be over, all that buildup becomes pointless because Cena goes back to what he was doing before the Rock showed back up, and The Rock doesn't exist in the WWE Universe anymore except for the occasional RAW Anniversary show or DVD commercial.

The only way WWE can create a way to profit off this match for years to come is to simoultaneously create a top heel and face for the next 5 years in Cena using cheap tactics to win, and use whatever young guy Triple H has a hard-on for at the moment to oppose him.

 

[Zackary Michaels]

HBK deserved to beat Hogan at SS. Cena deserves to beat Rock at WM. It's not about what they will lose if they don't. Cena is already established just as HBK was. It's about doing what's right for business. Hogan refused to job to HBK. Rock isn't like that. He'll lose to Cena because he knows that Cena is the face of the company now.

As a Rock fan, of course I would like to see Rock win. But I know that Cena deserves the win.

Your whole reasoning behind thinking Rock should win is based on two very unlikely things. 1) Rock is going to wrestle more after this match and 2) Cena will/needs to change his character. The first is simply wishful thinking. Even if Rock has a few more matches left in him, don't expect to see him around as much as you stated. And the other is also wishful thinking. The whole buildup of this match is that Cena refuses to change who he is in order to please the fans. He is who he is and that's how he'll always be, even in the face of hatred. He's not going to adjust his character, period. Just watch this promo video and you'll see what I'm talking about.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ue4RP6jji1c

This match for him is about overcoming the hatred and defeating one of the biggest legends of all time. And you know Cena is going to get booed out of the building in Miami. But that's the point. He's the good role model. Even if people hate you, keep fighting and do what's right. That's what Cena's character is all about. Don't give in to bullying. Rise about hate. All that crap.

Just accept it.

 

[Truly Phenomenonal]

Rock has nothing to gain, while Cena has a lot to lose.

It's obvious that Rock isn't going to be around much after WrestleMania, and even if they do want to do this best of three series, the second match probably won't happen until SummerSlam. If the Rock beats Cena at WrestleMania... what happens? Rock would just go away for a few months...

It just makes more sense from a business and logic standpoint to have Cena win, if Cena wins Rock can leave for a few months and then come back and continue his thing with Cena, if Rock wins, why would he come back? The only reason he would is if Cena came out and kept on calling him out, saying he wants revenge, but in all honesty that would be weird.

It won't hurt the Rock's credibility one bit if he loses to Cena, and that's just the way it is... It's the exact same thing as WrestleMania 18, Rock just had to go over Hogan because it made more sense. Just like Cena beating Rock at WrestleMania 28 will make more sense.

 

[DanShow40]

Rock vs Cena is going to go down as simply as how Vince sees fit to transition the attention from one generation to another. If you look back through the years at all the Wrestlemania's you will see a very similar pattern that has been used. It all started with Wrestlemania 3 Hogan/Andre in which if you seen the Story of Wrestlemania you see Vince talking about the transition. The there was suppose to be a transition at Wrestlemania 6 with the Warrior which Hogan put over him by handing him the belt. A few years later we go to Wrestlemania 18 where Rock/Hogan epic bout in Skydome happened where once more Hogan transitioned the popularity to The Rock. Now its time for another transition in Cena/Rock. I feel Cena will win clean and get the effect that Vince always plays out at Wrestlemania. Transition of Popularity.

 

[The Fabulous Rougeau's]

There is a huge difference between Hogan putting over The Rock and The Rock putting Cena over. Hogan has been done since the height of the NWO. Since then he has been hanging on by nothing other then his name. Rock on the other hand, is only 4 years older then Cena and can still perform like he did during the height of the Attitude Era. Rock and Hogan were equals in name alone. Rock was light years ahead of him in all other aspects. Cena and Rock are equals across the board. Even though Rock will never bee full time, we haved to take what he says to heart when he says "he will never leave again." To me this means he will pop in for a couple months at a time (between movies of course) and get involved where it makes most sense. It will seem kind of difficult to set this up if you cut his legs from under him by having him lose his first meaningful match since WM19.

Also, their is a huge difference between this match and his last Manian match at WM20. Their it was known he would be gone for a long time. So the right thing was to have your best young talent (Batista and Orton) go over on him and Mankind. Now This time around The Rock should be around from time to time and Cena is neither young or rising talent. He is established and would not be affected by winning or losing this match.

 

[Davi323]

There is a huge difference between Hogan putting over The Rock and The Rock putting Cena over. Hogan has been done since the height of the NWO. Since then he has been hanging on by nothing other then his name. Rock on the other hand, is only 4 years older then Cena and can still perform like he did during the height of the Attitude Era. Rock and Hogan were equals in name alone. Rock was light years ahead of him in all other aspects. Cena and Rock are equals across the board. Even though Rock will never bee full time, we haved to take what he says to heart when he says "he will never leave again." To me this means he will pop in for a couple months at a time (between movies of course) and get involved where it makes most sense. It will seem kind of difficult to set this up if you cut his legs from under him by having him lose his first meaningful match since WM19.

Also, their is a huge difference between this match and his last Manian match at WM20. Their it was known he would be gone for a long time. So the right thing was to have your best young talent (Batista and Orton) go over on him and Mankind. Now This time around The Rock should be around from time to time and Cena is neither young or rising talent. He is established and would not be affected by winning or losing this match.

Another difference you chose to ignore:

Hulk Hogan was still an active wrestler, the Rock hasn't wrestled a real match in 8 years. IE, Hulk Hogan, from a practical standpoint, was in much better ring shape than the Rock will be, because he didn't take an 8 year break. Older, yes. Slowing down? Certainly. But, Hogan had no ring rust whatsoever, and put on a much better match than anyone thought he could. Rock didn't make that match a classic, Hulk Hogan did, because he exceeded expectations. Further, Hulk Hogan won the WWE Championship and the Tag Team championships AFTER his match against the Rock, so claiming that he was living on nothing but his name is patently ridiculous.

Further, how do you know that Rock can still do what he did 8 years ago? What evidence do you have to support that? You can be in great physical shape and not be anywhere close to the level of performer you used to be. The truth is, we have NOTHING to judge Rock's ring readiness on. To claim that he is just as good now as he was during the height of the Attitude era is purely speculative, and will be until Sunday, when we can actually see him wrestle again. Maybe he is as good as he once was, maybe he isn't. But to claim that he is already is completely unknowable. There is simply no evidence to support it.

 

[reynolsg]

Emmmmm did you see the tag match at Survivor Series? The Rock looked great and he was wrestling pretty dam good too! He even busted out some moves we hadn't seen (at least I hadn't anyway) from him before (fisherman's suplex, magistral cradle).

Comparing the physical condition of The Rock in 2012 to Hulk Hogan in 2002 is silly, and a little unfair to Hogan to be fair.

Hogan was nearing 49, his body was very broken down and I'm not too sure how long he had to get into shape before he made his WWE return.

Rock on the other hand is nearly 40 and has had a full year to get himself in the best shape of his life - not to mention he's not got any injuries from years and years of working matches on his body too.

Wait 'til we see the match, Rock will definitely be able to go, definitely.