Who's The Most Undeserving WWE Main Eventer?

[Slyfox696]

Cena Cena Cena Cena Cena and more Cena.

I'll catch hell for this but oh well. Did Cena work his ass off to get where he is? Yes he did and I will give credit to him where credit is due. But from his 2nd match (his 1st does not count because Kurt Angle made him look like a star), Cena's ring skills and overall ring ability have not improved in the slightest bit.

Seriously, leave the forums. If you truly believe this, then we don't need people with your knowledge of wrestling around here bringing us down.

John Cena has blossomed from a limited worker in his early days to the best worker in the company, BY FAR. No one is as versatile as he is, and no one has put on as many good matches as he has over the last three or four years.

Saying Cena hasn't improved, or that he is undeserving is ridiculous.

I'm sitting here stunned that I've seen Shawn Michael's name on this thread.

Don't be. He sucks.

His recent programme with Jericho was superb,

Bullshit. JERICHO was superb. Michaels was a whiny mopey little bitch who acted like a 3 year old who just got his toy taken from him.

he made JBL watchable for a while,

Bullshit again. JBL made HBK watchable. If it was the other way around, then how come HBK was getting booed? JBL was literally getting HBK booed.

and the man has match of the year EVERY F**KING YEAR!

The only match of the year he's had since his return was 2007 when he won it with John Cena. And that was the match that Cena carried the offense, not Michaels.

He help shape this industry

No he didn't. He was on the sidelines while Hogan, the nWo, Rock and Austin shaped the industry. He did jack shit for it.

So many fans nowadays have no idea whatsoever.................none!

The irony in this statement is amazing.

Well kids now u all have to listen to me.

This should be good.

Anyone who thinks HBK does not deserve to be in the Main Event is clearly an idiot.

And you are clearly flaming. It's never a good idea to flame a moderator.

There is no question that he deserves his spot

You're right. Generally it's accepted practice to allow a guy who wants no business doing anything for the company other than what suits him to be in the main-event, even when it's a proven fact that as a main-event draw he's terrible and he's completely disinterested in the ring. Generally it's a good idea to let that same guy NEVER put over anyone for a title except for his friends, to act like an ass, and to be rewarded for it.

Yes, generally those are the people who "deserve" a spot. Are you kidding me? Do you actually watch wrestling?

I'm stunned that so many people are having a pop at HBK on this thread, remember what this thread is about... it's asking whether DESERVE to be in the ME.

I know exactly what this thread is about.

HBK doesn't want to promote the company, doesn't want to win a title, doesn't want to work house shows, doesn't want to put other talent over clean for titles, doesn't look interested in working aside from a couple big dates a year, and doesn't even draw flies to shit.

How does someone like that deserve to be in the main-event?

If anything it has annoyed me that they won't put the strap back onto HBK because he is too modest and wants to give the new talent their shot.

Bullshit. He doesn't want the title, because he doesn't want to do the work that comes with being champion. He just wants to show up on Monday night, collect his paycheck, and go home.

And, for someone his age, that's fine. No problem. But that doesn't mean he deserves to be in the main-event for it.

Hinkey1 put it best when he said that he could wrestle a broomstick and make it look good!

He couldn't even wrestle Mr. Perfect and make it look good.

When you have people like Cena (Who has been told by many wrestlers in the back) that he can't wrestle a damn ! a damn people !!!

Oh really? Because Ric Flair, Hulk Hogan, Chris Jericho, Kurt Angle, and Triple H have all said that Cena is a good worker and has deserved everything he's gotten.

So, who are these "wrestlers in the back"? And tell me what exactly makes their opinion more credible than Flair, Hogan, Jericho, Angle and Triple H.

I swear to god, I could quite literally explode right now..........

We won't miss you.

He had match of the year at Summerslam with HHH in street fight

LOL..if it wasn't for the Hell in a Cell with him and HHH, this would be the most over glorified piece of shit match ever.

he's carried Hogan to his first decent match in DECADES

Yeah...or in 2003, either way.

How did he carry Hogan? Do you even know what it means to carry someone? Acting like an ass, completely overselling everything is not what carries a match. If Hogan wasn't the great professional worker that he was, that match would have bombed. That match was decent thanks to Hogan, not HBK's whiny ass.

he tore up Mania with Angle (Match of the year)

If you consider overrated spotfest matches to be "tearing it up", then sure. It wasn't even the best match on that card, MITB was.

Jericho (match of the year)

I sure hope you're talking about from WM 19.

Benoit/HHH (match of the year, seeing a pattern here yet????)

That match was terrible. People only praise it because Benoit won the title. The match itself was flat terrible and a waste of my time watching. Hell, it wasn't even a Triple Threat match, it was a revolving 1-on-1 match. One guy would roll in the ring, at the same time another rolled out. It was some of the laziest match booking I've ever seen.

also Flair (Match of the year!)

AAAAAAHAHAHAHAHA

I bet you have a shrine in your bedroom to HBK don't you? You must if you think the match with Flair was anything other than awful.

Fans like you shouldn't be allowed on here, forum or not, free speech or mot, all you do is make yourself look like a complete tit, and it's embarrassing to read, it really is. You are beyond help......

Coming from the person who thinks HBK is actually worth a damn anymore, I can't help but laugh.

 

[SinCityBlitz]

Hogan and Cena good workers? What planet am I on again? Wow. Cena can be carried to a decent match but if his life depended on him wrestling a good match himself he would be dead.

No doubt both are charismatic but as far as in ring skills they both blow. If cena is the best thing in the WWE right now it shows because the WWE has sucked for a long time now. So it makes sense that he is the best thing on a crap show.

As far as the question goes whoever said the Great Khali...BINGO. Horrible, just horrible. This guy makes Cena look like Ricky Steamboat. Mark Henry a close second.

 

[ThePeoplesChampion]

Mark Henry and he was one and ecw champion so dont tell me he aint a main eventer.....really he simply boring...no mic or wrestling skills....just boring....and Great khalie for his so many moves!

and another thing yes batista sucks royally but wwe keeps pushing him cause they want him to be as big brock lesnar and goldberg....which wont happen

 

[ThE uNdErTaKeR17-0]

Id say Rey mysterio, hes an okay competitor but makes for such a boring match and the most annoying part is where they keep calling him an underdog and they make it sound so serious .

 

[emeraldshogun]

Its funny how a lot of you are going on about HBK not deserving his spot. I really think he does, he can pull good matches out of a lot of people, Like the match with Koslov a couple weeks ago. The Match wasnt pretty but it was a lot more watchable than the HHH/Koslov match from SS.

No Think of this clearly, HBK really isnt ME anymore. Where was he on raw this week? Curtain Jerker match. He has been doing that a lot latley, he hasn't vied for a title in a while.

Now that that is said, I have to say proboly Big Show or Koslov should be stricken from the ranks of ME, simply because Big Show hasnt doen anything good since he was taking on Brock Lesnar and Koslov, if some of the best workers in the WWE can't pull good matches out of you, then seriously head back to OVW.

 

[ZEUS]

I'm going to say Jeff Hardy. He bores me. Yes, he is unique, but all he can really do is get beaten up and fall off of stuff. And this is coming from a guy who thought the WCW crusierweight division was more entertaining than the NWO. Jeff Hardy has little to know mic skills, really has no ring psychology at all, and is only popular because of his look. That gets you to the mid card title at best in my opinion, not the main event.

 

[TwistofRKO]

Yet he's extremely over and brings the crowd to their feet numerous times when he's present.

I think you mistake talent with amateur wrestling, which are obviously not the same thing..

 

[Khalifa]

I'm going to say Jeff Hardy. He bores me. Yes, he is unique, but all he can really do is get beaten up and fall off of stuff. And this is coming from a guy who thought the WCW crusierweight division was more entertaining than the NWO. Jeff Hardy has little to know mic skills, really has no ring psychology at all, and is only popular because of his look. That gets you to the mid card title at best in my opinion, not the main event.

The second time I had to quote you in 10 minutes. You can honestly say that Jeff Hardy bores you in every single match that he is in? He bores you in a ladder match? He bores you in a extreme rules match? He bored you in that triple threat match at Armageddon? Can you say he hasn't improved at all and he is only good at looking like he is getting the shit bashed out of him? He might not have much mic skills but how much did he improve last year? He improved alot. If you think he should be not be i the main event then the following people should have never gotten there; Rey, CM Punk, RVD, Evan Bourne (ECW), Eddie and HBK should had that not been in the main event as well. Then what do you have for the main event? You have a HHH vs Orton match for the 50th time match and after that what do you have? Will any B grade PPV's be exciting with all of those people not have been in the main event? No it wont they will all be the same and there would be no joy out of watching wrestling. Well there would be but you cant just watch Edge and Cena have a great match at a PPV and then there would be nothing else good because you have seen every other possible match up.

Jeff Hardy is a big part to WWE. He puts on good matches and puts on even better matches that involve spots. WWE doesn't jsut rely on pure wrestling to bring fans, they rely on excitement as well and know one can honestly say they don't like spots at all. No one.

 

[DBK]

Ok, seeing as I'm receiving warnings about replying to people, who clearly have no idea, running HBK down, I will now play within all of your little "rules" and stay bang on topic.

Shawn Michaels is no longer Main Event, he hasn't held the title due to not working a full schedule, for a long time. They just bring him in when they need a real performer to make someone look like a real star. Someone like...................

Most undeserving main eventer....................

RANDY ORTON!!!

This guy sucks. Sure he looks the part, but his ring work BLOWS. No wonder Triple H is so important to the WWE

 

[NSL]

I'm going to stick with the obvious, and someone that's tough to argue against. Big Show. Going back to last year's WrestleMania, he lost to a man about a third of his size. Sure, it was a celebrity, and one that used brass knuckles, but he still lost. It looked bad. Even when he was dominating, I didn't but that he had a shot. Since then, he hasn't done anything but "take care of Vickie" while Edge was away. I know he feuded with Undertaker, but it always seemed like it was just carrying Undertaker through the end of the year. He was also a part of the failed knockout finish.

When I heard he was getting a title shot at 'Mania, I flipped. He's not a main event wrestler, and shouldn't be near the main event of the biggest PPV in WWE's history. I wouldn't mind him being left off completely.

There's onlty one argument I can see anyone making for him being in the title hunt, and that's his time that he's spent with the company. I combat that with the fact that he left to pursue a different career. He only came back when it failed, and had no other options. He's a company man, but not a loyal company man. I think Vince's love of big men is what got him in the main event.

 

[shafe_41]

Ok... I'm going to clear some things up that I'm catching flack for like I expected. First, I want to give my definition of "undeserving."

Undeserving is somebody that has not showed significant ring improvement, significant mic skills improvement, and an ability to just be a machine. I said that Cena is the most undeserving main eventer and while I thought about my choice and how I would probably go back on it, there are aspects you can't deny.

The case of Flair, Triple H, etc... saying that Cena is a good worker. Yes, we all know that. He's the face of the company. The man is a promotional machine. He's done more than 100 Make-a-Wish favors and in my eyes, that is the ultimate. Cena giving his time to those kids with life-threatening diseases when their only wish is to meet their hero John Cena touches everybody and during WM24 when they did the Make-a-Wish segment with the kids at WM, I teared up. You can do nothing better with your time than do something for those kids and for that, Cena gets the gold star infinity times over. It's the ultimate gift. But I need to clarify the part (and I will agree... it's the only part) that I feel makes him undeserving. His ring work.

HAVE YOU WATCHED A JOHN CENA MATCH? He can't carry a match any better than you can carry water in a mesh sack. He is terrible. Isn't that why a majority of us love watching WRESTLING? BECAUSE WE LOVE THE WRESTLING??? IS IT??? I know that's why I watch and pay for the PPVs. You get 3 pretty solid hours of action. Decent length matches with good skills being shown. Cena has no skills in the ring. NONE. After he gets his ass kicked for a solid 8-10 minutes, name 3 moves he performs other than the following:

Shoulder Blocks off the ropes, the occasional atomic drop, the funny slam that sets up "you can't see me", you can't see me, STFU, FU, or the fame-asser off the top rope.

Cena's moveset consists of the same 7 moves, every single time, almost in that exact order as i listed above. Name me a John Cena match you actually watched that was entertaining. Because I can't name more than 2 that I liked. His first "match" against Kurt Angle made him look like a star. Angle carried him like a professional, a star, and the amazing talent (and greatest wrestler ever) that Kurt Angle is. I also did enjoy his match against Triple H at WM 22. Mostly because I had no clue how that was going to end and I was on the edge of my seat like I thought every match was real and shoot. That was a good match. Other than that, Cena's wrestling matches (gimmick matches against khali and umaga excluded) are terrible. He can be carried but can't carry shit in a bucket. And for THAT, that's why I chose Cena as undeserving. I want to make it clear that it was solely and ONLY because of his ring skills. He doesn't have any, he hasn't gained any, and probably won't get any in the near future.

 

[HHHDiedForOurSins]

Ok... I'm going to clear some things up that I'm catching flack for like I expected. First, I want to give my definition of "undeserving."

Undeserving is somebody that has not showed significant ring improvement, significant mic skills improvement, and an ability to just be a machine. I said that Cena is the most undeserving main eventer and while I thought about my choice and how I would probably go back on it, there are aspects you can't deny.

The case of Flair, Triple H, etc... saying that Cena is a good worker. Yes, we all know that. He's the face of the company. The man is a promotional machine. He's done more than 100 Make-a-Wish favors and in my eyes, that is the ultimate. Cena giving his time to those kids with life-threatening diseases when their only wish is to meet their hero John Cena touches everybody and during WM24 when they did the Make-a-Wish segment with the kids at WM, I teared up. You can do nothing better with your time than do something for those kids and for that, Cena gets the gold star infinity times over. It's the ultimate gift. But I need to clarify the part (and I will agree... it's the only part) that I feel makes him undeserving. His ring work.

HAVE YOU WATCHED A JOHN CENA MATCH? He can't carry a match any better than you can carry water in a mesh sack. He is terrible. Isn't that why a majority of us love watching WRESTLING? BECAUSE WE LOVE THE WRESTLING??? IS IT??? I know that's why I watch and pay for the PPVs. You get 3 pretty solid hours of action. Decent length matches with good skills being shown. Cena has no skills in the ring. NONE. After he gets his ass kicked for a solid 8-10 minutes, name 3 moves he performs other than the following:

Shoulder Blocks off the ropes, the occasional atomic drop, the funny slam that sets up "you can't see me", you can't see me, STFU, FU, or the fame-asser off the top rope.

Cena's moveset consists of the same 7 moves, every single time, almost in that exact order as i listed above. Name me a John Cena match you actually watched that was entertaining. Because I can't name more than 2 that I liked. His first "match" against Kurt Angle made him look like a star. Angle carried him like a professional, a star, and the amazing talent (and greatest wrestler ever) that Kurt Angle is. I also did enjoy his match against Triple H at WM 22. Mostly because I had no clue how that was going to end and I was on the edge of my seat like I thought every match was real and shoot. That was a good match. Other than that, Cena's wrestling matches (gimmick matches against khali and umaga excluded) are terrible. He can be carried but can't carry shit in a bucket. And for THAT, that's why I chose Cena as undeserving. I want to make it clear that it was solely and ONLY because of his ring skills. He doesn't have any, he hasn't gained any, and probably won't get any in the near future.

I really hate this argument about people being carried to great matches, maybe that's true for someone like Kozlov or Khali where the their opponent has to really work hard to get anything halfway decent out of the match, but the likes of Cena & Batista have been in way too many good matches in the past 2-3 years to use this lazy excuse.

Cena is definitely not undeserving of his main event spot, even if you overlook the fact that he's the most popular guy in the company, which is more than enough reason in itself to keep his spot, how do you explain the fact that he always delivers in big matches? Every heavily hyped main event match he's been in since he's been on top has been a good match, you can't seriously say he's contributed nothing to any of these matches.

 

[kenvin100]

I havent read the entire thread, but many in the WWE would think its Mr.Paul Levesque, otherwise known as HHH..Do I agree with this, no, since Trips did work his way to the top..and his relations to the McMahons just further strengthened his position at the top..but he did work for it

Now to the topic of who doesnt deserve the main event status: The Great Khali..I dont know what the WWE saw in this Indian skyscraper, who cant speak a word of english and was the root cause of the worst wrestling match ever: The Punjabi Prison match..I couldnt believe that this guy won the title, (I think I checked wwe.com just to make sure cause I thought it was a joke) Clearly did not work toward the main event status, hes just a tall man who can reach tall places..and nothing more!

 

[Miko]

To all those people that say JBL doesnt deserve his spot I just wanna ask, what spot is that? Sure he's a Main-Eventer sometimes, but he's still a Main Event jobber, he loses every big match (and most other matches) he has and yet remains over, one of the most hated men on the roster. A guy like that is damn near irreplaceable. He's never gonna win another World Title so I dont see the problem.

Another cause for JBL's defence, he is great at putting people over, most of the other veterans suck at putting people over, JBL could make Funaki look credible, what they do after they get the JBL rub is on their own heads (I am looking at you Punk).

 

[Andy Awesome]

Easy. Even though he's injured right now and thankfully won't be at Wrestlemania, I would have to go with Boretista, sorry, I mean Batista. The man is horrible. Two big moves and no mic skills. I would much rather watch an hour of the Big Show wrestling as opposed to watching Batista wrestle.

I have to agree with you and everyone else, Batista comes to mind as the man that is a undeserving Main Eventer. He is the most overrated superstar in the WWE, besides Triple H and John Cena. At least John Cena and Triple H have good mic skills, Batista has no mic skills and his wrestling ability is crap. The time when he was on Smackdown and Edge cashed in the MITB breifcase and won the World Title from The Undertaker, Batista had like 5 or 6 title shots against Edge. My god, it was one of the most uninteresting fued on Smackdown. Pretty much, Batista is my pick.

 

[shafe_41]

I really hate this argument about people being carried to great matches, maybe that's true for someone like Kozlov or Khali where the their opponent has to really work hard to get anything halfway decent out of the match, but the likes of Cena & Batista have been in way too many good matches in the past 2-3 years to use this lazy excuse.

Cena is definitely not undeserving of his main event spot, even if you overlook the fact that he's the most popular guy in the company, which is more than enough reason in itself to keep his spot, how do you explain the fact that he always delivers in big matches? Every heavily hyped main event match he's been in since he's been on top has been a good match, you can't seriously say he's contributed nothing to any of these matches.

Cena delivers nothing in big matches. He gives you the same 7 moves, everytime, almost in the same order. His match with HBK at WM23 comes to mind... AWFUL. HBK beat the piss out of Cena, worked on his leg for a solid 10-12 minutes and once Cena gains the offensive, he doesn't sell the leg AT ALL. If you remember correctly, HBK and Cena were scripted or supposed to shake hands at the end of the match and HBK totally shot Cena down because of the awful performance Cena put on and not selling the leg.

Their one hour match on Raw... I'm sorry but I've never seen such a waste of time on Raw in my life. That match was a total bore just for the simple fact of it being "the main event" of the evening and starting just prior to the 2nd hour of Raw starting... so you knew they were going to milk it for that whole hour. The only way that match would have been exciting was if you were in attendence (which took place in England I believe), and knowing it was being taped for Raw and not airing live, then an element of surprise on not knowing when it was going to end would have made the match memorable. It's memorable for me because it was a bore-fest. Just like the rest of Cena's matches.

His comeback match with Jericho at SS this past year... go ahead... watch it. Jericho carrieis him that whole match. I'm just absolutely baffled by the people who actually enjoy Cena's matches and the work CENA PERFORMS in those matches because he can't do anything. I've seen more Batista matches that I've liked than Cena matches I liked. But trust me, the number isn't much higher. So yes maybe I got a little off track of the topic at hand on who the most "undeserving" superstar is, but as far as anything in the ring goes... Cena belongs at the bottom of the pile. He has too many muscles to have any ring agility. He's the Hogan of the day. Hogan and Cena are the same mold. Great charisma, face of the company, promotion machines, with ring talent that I could top.

 

[Queers and Steers]

I really hate this argument about people being carried to great matches, maybe that's true for someone like Kozlov or Khali where the their opponent has to really work hard to get anything halfway decent out of the match, but the likes of Cena & Batista have been in way too many good matches in the past 2-3 years to use this lazy excuse.

Cena is definitely not undeserving of his main event spot, even if you overlook the fact that he's the most popular guy in the company, which is more than enough reason in itself to keep his spot, how do you explain the fact that he always delivers in big matches? Every heavily hyped main event match he's been in since he's been on top has been a good match, you can't seriously say he's contributed nothing to any of these matches.

while i agree with you that Cena is definitely a main eventer. he deserves to be because he works hard and does a lot for the company. to call all of his main event matches good is a joke. remember this date for example june 24 2007, wwe vengance: night of champions that wwe challenge match was atrocious one of the worst matches of all time! b y far the worst main event of all time! it was ten minutes and seven seconds long! so he definitely needs to improve in the ring, but he also definitely desreves to be in the maib event picture

 

[Queers and Steers]

Tsk, tsk, tsk....Name calling isn't going to get you anywhere here....Rock had a great match with Hogan three years before HBK pulled something out of him. The Vince/HBK match was awful and nobody carried anybody in that match. Usually his top of the line feuds are just one match. His feud with Jericho was overrated as Jericho basically did everything in the feud with HBK just moping around and the Flair/HBK match is more overrated than HBK/Hart. That match is pure nostalgia and that's it. If it wasn't a retirement match, then nobody would be talking about it even if Flair won.

dude i have no clue what you are watching but how could bret hart vs hbk be overrated? but u probably love Triple h vs batista at wm21 right? hbk may not look as exciting are as interested as he use to back in the day. but he sells things three times better and the fans are into his matches plus in his oldest age he still consistantly uses more moves than cena or batista. you slso said a wjhile back that Batista has been a better wrestler than hbk the last three or four years. name me a mach that batista was in that was just a regular singles match than kurt vs Hbk which was exactly four years ago. Batista in the ring= shit HBk in the ring= gold. and as far as sly fox 96 goes ur dick buddy Cena, admitted how honored he was to share a main event at mania with hbk so it kinda makes you look silly when u disrespect the man and the legend that your favorite respects

 

[Little Jerry Lawler]

dude i have no clue what you are watching but how could bret hart vs hbk be overrated? but u probably love Triple h vs batista at wm21 right? hbk may not look as exciting are as interested as he use to back in the day. but he sells things three times better and the fans are into his matches plus in his oldest age he still consistantly uses more moves than cena or batista. you slso said a wjhile back that Batista has been a better wrestler than hbk the last three or four years. name me a mach that batista was in that was just a regular singles match than kurt vs Hbk which was exactly four years ago. Batista in the ring= shit HBk in the ring= gold. and as far as sly fox 96 goes ur dick buddy Cena, admitted how honored he was to share a main event at mania with hbk so it kinda makes you look silly when u disrespect the man and the legend that your favorite respects

Dude, you are embarassing yourself. I'm not a Cena fan so I can't be his "dick buddy" as you so eloquently put it. To further educate you, Batista v. Taker at WM 23 and Batista v. Cena at Summerslam 2008 were both better than HBK v. Angle even though I enjoyed the match. HBK has to sell a lot because he has no offense and selling is what he is good at. Don't hate me because you can't see the truth about HBK now. What's laughable is you saying that HBK uses more moves than Cena and Batista. Chest chop, atomic drop, elbow drop, Sweet Chin Music....There's four and he'll break out the Figure Four and the Crossface occasionally so that's six. 1-2-3-4-5-6. I bet Cena was honored to share a main event with HBK as he carried HBK through that entire match. There's a thing called punctuation- Learn how to use it.

P.S. I didn't like Triple H v. Batista at WM 21.

 

[Queers and Steers]

Seriously, leave the forums. If you truly believe this, then we don't need people with your knowledge of wrestling around here bringing us down.

John Cena has blossomed from a limited worker in his early days to the best worker in the company, BY FAR. No one is as versatile as he is, and no one has put on as many good matches as he has over the last three or four years.

Saying Cena hasn't improved, or that he is undeserving is ridiculous.

Don't be. He sucks.

Bullshit. JERICHO was superb. Michaels was a whiny mopey little bitch who acted like a 3 year old who just got his toy taken from him.

Bullshit again. JBL made HBK watchable. If it was the other way around, then how come HBK was getting booed? JBL was literally getting HBK booed.

The only match of the year he's had since his return was 2007 when he won it with John Cena. And that was the match that Cena carried the offense, not Michaels.

No he didn't. He was on the sidelines while Hogan, the nWo, Rock and Austin shaped the industry. He did jack shit for it.

The irony in this statement is amazing.
This should be good.

And you are clearly flaming. It's never a good idea to flame a moderator.

You're right. Generally it's accepted practice to allow a guy who wants no business doing anything for the company other than what suits him to be in the main-event, even when it's a proven fact that as a main-event draw he's terrible and he's completely disinterested in the ring. Generally it's a good idea to let that same guy NEVER put over anyone for a title except for his friends, to act like an ass, and to be rewarded for it.

Yes, generally those are the people who "deserve" a spot. Are you kidding me? Do you actually watch wrestling?

I know exactly what this thread is about.

HBK doesn't want to promote the company, doesn't want to win a title, doesn't want to work house shows, doesn't want to put other talent over clean for titles, doesn't look interested in working aside from a couple big dates a year, and doesn't even draw flies to shit.

How does someone like that deserve to be in the main-event?

Bullshit. He doesn't want the title, because he doesn't want to do the work that comes with being champion. He just wants to show up on Monday night, collect his paycheck, and go home.

And, for someone his age, that's fine. No problem. But that doesn't mean he deserves to be in the main-event for it.

He couldn't even wrestle Mr. Perfect and make it look good.

Oh really? Because Ric Flair, Hulk Hogan, Chris Jericho, Kurt Angle, and Triple H have all said that Cena is a good worker and has deserved everything he's gotten.

So, who are these "wrestlers in the back"? And tell me what exactly makes their opinion more credible than Flair, Hogan, Jericho, Angle and Triple H.
We won't miss you.

LOL..if it wasn't for the Hell in a Cell with him and HHH, this would be the most over glorified piece of shit match ever.

Yeah...or in 2003, either way.

How did he carry Hogan? Do you even know what it means to carry someone? Acting like an ass, completely overselling everything is not what carries a match. If Hogan wasn't the great professional worker that he was, that match would have bombed. That match was decent thanks to Hogan, not HBK's whiny ass.

If you consider overrated spotfest matches to be "tearing it up", then sure. It wasn't even the best match on that card, MITB was.

I sure hope you're talking about from WM 19.

That match was terrible. People only praise it because Benoit won the title. The match itself was flat terrible and a waste of my time watching. Hell, it wasn't even a Triple Threat match, it was a revolving 1-on-1 match. One guy would roll in the ring, at the same time another rolled out. It was some of the laziest match booking I've ever seen.

AAAAAAHAHAHAHAHA

I bet you have a shrine in your bedroom to HBK don't you? You must if you think the match with Flair was anything other than awful.

Coming from the person who thinks HBK is actually worth a damn anymore, I can't help but laugh.

dude i have zero respect for your wrestling opinion. Triple H did say in an actual interview that he told cena that he sucked now mind you he did say Cena has gotten a lot better since than which is true. but its just so funny to me that you give cena, Austin and these guys all of this credit yet one of the first people they mention or give props to being a great worker and for being an phenomenal performer is HBK apparently you dont watch WWe dvds do you buddy/ Austin talks about how great of a worker hbk is on his own dvd. Cena talks about how honored he was able to share a main event with HBK. so you shootind down HBK while boasting about cena makes you look like a jack ass who doesnt even know who his favorite respects. and its hard for me to understand how people with these biased opinions of yours can lt your hatredfor somebody completely blind you. so i guess you think the fact that damn near every wrestler considers him one of if not the greatest of all time. including ric flair and Triple H, who u mentioned gave cena props. as i previously stated that Ric flair admits at his own HOF speech that HBk has surpassed him as the best. and since you claim to know so much u would know those are the two guys consistently on the lips of wrestlers as the greatest of all time. so i also guess you think its a fluke that other wrestlers as well as fans with eyes and a since of imagination consider his matches the gold standard for matches and that he is considered Mr. wrestlemania is just a fluke right? come on sly just because a guy can sell t shirts are tickets doesn't make him the best wrestler it makes him the biggest draw. there is a difference. Jenna Jameson is the biggest porn star but is she the best? no. for you to claim that HBK is so terrible and overrated degrades fellow wrestlers who love the guy and still loves his matches like Chris Jericho who admitted hes a HBK fan and wouldn't be wrestling if it wasn't for him. you trying make it seem like HBK has a wool pulled over everyone who likes or respects him eyes when in reality the wool has been pulled over your eyes. its not about quantity its about quality. Hogans name put 93 thousand people in seats, but if he was a nobody who wrestled the same way he would get booed out of the stadium. i mean the guy has had main events that lasted 10 minutes! at mania no less, yeah that's very entertaining and hard working. because it really takes a lot to wrestle for ten minutes right? HBK Would get respect based off his matches no matter who he was period. i don't necessarily like Cena at all but i don't run around claiming hes terrible because im not biased it would be silly on my behalf to say he doesn't do a lot for the company. but you claiming that michaels hasn't had any good matches is ridiculous! you are basically calling all wrestlers and fans alike idiots for liking his work .

 

[Queers and Steers]

Dude, you are embarassing yourself. I'm not a Cena fan so I can't be his "dick buddy" as you so eloquently put it. To further educate you, Batista v. Taker at WM 23 and Batista v. Cena at Summerslam 2008 were both better than HBK v. Angle even though I enjoyed the match. HBK has to sell a lot because he has no offense and selling is what he is good at. Don't hate me because you can't see the truth about HBK now. What's laughable is you saying that HBK uses more moves than Cena and Batista. Chest chop, atomic drop, elbow drop, Sweet Chin Music....There's four and he'll break out the Figure Four and the Crossface occasionally so that's six. 1-2-3-4-5-6. I bet Cena was honored to share a main event with HBK as he carried HBK through that entire match. There's a thing called punctuation- Learn how to use it.

P.S. I didn't like Triple H v. Batista at WM 21.

haha so what about the flying cross arm or the inverted figure four moonsaults, diving cross bodies are also on his move list. point blank hes pushing forty three and that still out numbers cenas five knuckle shuffle flying shoulder blocks, attitude adjuster, stf, diving famasser, spin out powerbomb and fisherman suplex. and only uses five of those consistently and hes young so whats his accuse for lack of diversity? exactly Cena at his age vs HBK at the same age is Cena and Cena wouldnt be able to do anything with HBK. and taker vs batista was my favorite match at wm23 and i enjoyed Cena vs batista but they are not even on the same level as Kurt vs HBK. oh and that dick buddy line was intended for slyfox96 im pretty sure i said his name in there. oh and there is no need to name batista move ist which is basically Batista bomb, spine buster and spear, so ill save space by not name five of six moves. as far as not liking Triple H vs batista im glad at least you know a stinker when you see one. and i never said that shawn michaels was still the best wrestler, i said hes still the best seller and is capable to get the best out of everyone. cena, himself has admitted that as well as Austin. so all in all HBk is still very good at what he does in certain ways even though he has noticeably and admittedly diminished in some areas
he is still a great asset to the WWE and all of the wrestlers love nhim and love getting to mix it up with one of the best to ever do it and that's undeniable.

 

[Slyfox696]

Cena delivers nothing in big matches.

Except great matches that are remembered for years after they happen.

He gives you the same 7 moves, everytime, almost in the same order. His match with HBK at WM23 comes to mind... AWFUL.

If by "awful", you mean very good, then yes, I would agree.

HBK beat the piss out of Cena, worked on his leg for a solid 10-12 minutes and once Cena gains the offensive, he doesn't sell the leg AT ALL.

Yes he does. Go watch the match again. This is just the stupid theory that has been going on for a while now.

If you remember correctly, HBK and Cena were scripted or supposed to shake hands at the end of the match and HBK totally shot Cena down because of the awful performance Cena put on and not selling the leg.

LOL, there has NEVER been ANYONE who has said such a thing. You're making rumors into facts now.

Their one hour match on Raw... I'm sorry but I've never seen such a waste of time on Raw in my life. That match was a total bore just for the simple fact of it being "the main event" of the evening and starting just prior to the 2nd hour of Raw starting

And yet, it has been regarded by most fans as the match of the year in 2007, and one of the best matches in the history of Raw.

so you knew they were going to milk it for that whole hour.

Bullshit. I've never heard so much ignorance come from one poster.

The HBK vs. Cena match wasn't even supposed to happen. The only reason it DID happen is because Randy Orton got sent home during the overseas tour. So, the WWE changed things around, and had the match go for a full hour. And while the match was going on, more and more people found it shocking how long the match was going.

I was actually doing Live Discussions on another forum during the match, so don't tell me that you "knew" it was going to last an hour. Because NO ONE knew it was going to last an hour.

Anyways, I'm done with you. It's obvious your wrestling knowledge is the equivalent of a 4 years olds. Let's move on.

to call all of his main event matches good is a joke.

You're right. Clearly you know so much more about good wrestling than Chris Jericho.

I told John not to let people make him believe what they're saying. I told him, you're a good worker. You just need to show people that yes you know what you're doing, because you do. I can't think of the last time I saw a bad PPV match involving John Cena. The guy delivers every single night and he goes above and beyond to help other guys look good."

Like I said, unless you're going to try and say you know more about good wrestling than Chris Jericho, then you've failed.

remember this date for example june 24 2007, wwe vengance: night of champions that wwe challenge match was atrocious one of the worst matches of all time!

You mean the FIVE MAN match?

And it wasn't even the worst match of the year. That honor went to HBK vs. The Great Khali on Raw.

dude i have no clue what you are watching but how could bret hart vs hbk be overrated?

If you're talking about the Ironman match, it is overrated because it is an incredibly boring match. It was a 25 minute match stretched out to an hour. Terribly boring, and basically two guys laying on the ground for the entire match.

plus in his oldest age he still consistantly uses more moves than cena or batista.

So? What does that have to do with being good?

Steve Austin used about THREE moves during his heyday. A punch, a kick, and a Stunner. Didn't stop him from being an incredible worker. Number of moves have fuck all to do with being a good wrestler.

you slso said a wjhile back that Batista has been a better wrestler than hbk the last three or four years. name me a mach that batista was in that was just a regular singles match than kurt vs Hbk which was exactly four years ago.

Batista vs. Undertaker > HBK vs. Angle

and as far as sly fox 96 goes ur dick buddy Cena, admitted how honored he was to share a main event at mania with hbk so it kinda makes you look silly when u disrespect the man and the legend that your favorite respects

That's great. I'd be honored to play a game of 1 on 1 basketball against John Wooden.

That doesn't mean that Wooden is a good basketball player, or that HBK is a good wrestler.

Your logic=fail.

dude i have zero respect for your wrestling opinion.

I assure you the feeling is mutual.

Triple H did say in an actual interview that he told cena that he sucked now mind you he did say Cena has gotten a lot better since than which is true.

For fuck's sake, if you're going to quote interviews, then quote the WHOLE interview and tell where you got it from.

Triple H, on his DVD "King of Kings", recalled a story about a match he had with Cena at WM22. Cena came up to him after and asked how HHH thought he did, and Trips said that he thought he sucked. And if your IQ was about 10, then you'd believe that. But if you have a memory longer than 2 minutes, you'll remember the ENTIRE build-up to their match was about Cena's brawling vs. Triple H's "wrestling". So, his comment was little more than a kayfabe comment, which kept with the story of their feud. He went on to say that Cena has gone on to deserve EVERYTHING he's ever gotten in the business.

Finally, let's remember who's saying that someone else sucks. Triple H, the man notorious for burying others, and the man who's idea of "selling" during the match is to breathe hard about 15 minutes through and laying on the mat for an hour.

but its just so funny to me that you give cena, Austin and these guys all of this credit yet one of the first people they mention or give props to being a great worker and for being an phenomenal performer is HBK apparently you dont watch WWe dvds do you buddy/ Austin talks about how great of a worker hbk is on his own dvd. Cena talks about how honored he was able to share a main event with HBK. so you shootind down HBK while boasting about cena makes you look like a jack ass who doesnt even know who his favorite respects.

Pretty certain I already addressed this...numerous times really.

HBK USED to be a decent worker. And when he actually cares, he can still be a decent worker. The problem is, HBK is just so disinterested in working a good match anymore.

and its hard for me to understand how people with these biased opinions of yours can lt your hatredfor somebody completely blind you.

I don't hate HBK. Nothing even close to it. I'm just not going to give him a pass because of what he did 15 years ago, like all the other HBK fans seem to do.

so i guess you think the fact that damn near every wrestler considers him one of if not the greatest of all time. including ric flair and Triple H, who u mentioned gave cena props.

LOL...well I guess you got me there. HBK's two best friends thinks he's good. Great point.

as i previously stated that Ric flair admits at his own HOF speech that HBk has surpassed him as the best.

HAHAHAHA

Ric Flair hasn't been good in about 15 years. HBK passed him in quality back in '93.

so i also guess you think its a fluke that other wrestlers as well as fans with eyes and a since of imagination consider his matches the gold standard for matches and that he is considered Mr. wrestlemania is just a fluke right?

A fluke? No. A by-product of WWE revisionist history? Yes.

I mean, people actually believe that Flair was good. If that doesn't speak to the WWE's ability to manipulate people, I don't know what does.

come on sly just because a guy can sell t shirts are tickets doesn't make him the best wrestler it makes him the biggest draw. there is a difference.

Uhh, no, not really.

Because, people who aren't interesting don't see tickets or move merch. And since the whole point of wrestling is to be interesting and to make fans spend money, then those who do it best are the best workers.

Jenna Jameson is the biggest porn star but is she the best? no. for you to claim that HBK is so terrible and overrated degrades fellow wrestlers who love the guy and still loves his matches like Chris Jericho who admitted hes a HBK fan and wouldn't be wrestling if it wasn't for him. you trying make it seem like HBK has a wool pulled over everyone who likes or respects him eyes when in reality the wool has been pulled over your eyes. its not about quantity its about quality. Hogans name put 93 thousand people in seats, but if he was a nobody who wrestled the same way he would get booed out of the stadium. i mean the guy has had main events that lasted 10 minutes! at mania no less, yeah that's very entertaining and hard working. because it really takes a lot to wrestle for ten minutes right? HBK Would get respect based off his matches no matter who he was period. i don't necessarily like Cena at all but i don't run around claiming hes terrible because im not biased it would be silly on my behalf to say he doesn't do a lot for the company. but you claiming that michaels hasn't had any good matches is ridiculous! you are basically calling all wrestlers and fans alike idiots for liking his work .

I'm sure you made some point in all of this that you felt was good, but to be honest, I've grown weary of trying to decipher you posts.

Try using proper capitalization and grammar, and breaking your posts up into paragraphs, and then we'll talk about.

 

[Queers and Steers]

Except great matches that are remembered for years after they happen.

If by "awful", you mean very good, then yes, I would agree.

Yes he does. Go watch the match again. This is just the stupid theory that has been going on for a while now.

LOL, there has NEVER been ANYONE who has said such a thing. You're making rumors into facts now.

And yet, it has been regarded by most fans as the match of the year in 2007, and one of the best matches in the history of Raw.

Bullshit. I've never heard so much ignorance come from one poster.

The HBK vs. Cena match wasn't even supposed to happen. The only reason it DID happen is because Randy Orton got sent home during the overseas tour. So, the WWE changed things around, and had the match go for a full hour. And while the match was going on, more and more people found it shocking how long the match was going.

I was actually doing Live Discussions on another forum during the match, so don't tell me that you "knew" it was going to last an hour. Because NO ONE knew it was going to last an hour.

Anyways, I'm done with you. It's obvious your wrestling knowledge is the equivalent of a 4 years olds. Let's move on.

You're right. Clearly you know so much more about good wrestling than Chris Jericho.



Like I said, unless you're going to try and say you know more about good wrestling than Chris Jericho, then you've failed.



You mean the FIVE MAN match?

And it wasn't even the worst match of the year. That honor went to HBK vs. The Great Khali on Raw.

If you're talking about the Ironman match, it is overrated because it is an incredibly boring match. It was a 25 minute match stretched out to an hour. Terribly boring, and basically two guys laying on the ground for the entire match.

So? What does that have to do with being good?

Steve Austin used about THREE moves during his heyday. A punch, a kick, and a Stunner. Didn't stop him from being an incredible worker. Number of moves have fuck all to do with being a good wrestler.

Batista vs. Undertaker > HBK vs. Angle

That's great. I'd be honored to play a game of 1 on 1 basketball against John Wooden.

That doesn't mean that Wooden is a good basketball player, or that HBK is a good wrestler.

Your logic=fail.

I assure you the feeling is mutual.

For fuck's sake, if you're going to quote interviews, then quote the WHOLE interview and tell where you got it from.

Triple H, on his DVD "King of Kings", recalled a story about a match he had with Cena at WM22. Cena came up to him after and asked how HHH thought he did, and Trips said that he thought he sucked. And if your IQ was about 10, then you'd believe that. But if you have a memory longer than 2 minutes, you'll remember the ENTIRE build-up to their match was about Cena's brawling vs. Triple H's "wrestling". So, his comment was little more than a kayfabe comment, which kept with the story of their feud. He went on to say that Cena has gone on to deserve EVERYTHING he's ever gotten in the business.

Finally, let's remember who's saying that someone else sucks. Triple H, the man notorious for burying others, and the man who's idea of "selling" during the match is to breathe hard about 15 minutes through and laying on the mat for an hour.

Pretty certain I already addressed this...numerous times really.

HBK USED to be a decent worker. And when he actually cares, he can still be a decent worker. The problem is, HBK is just so disinterested in working a good match anymore.

I don't hate HBK. Nothing even close to it. I'm just not going to give him a pass because of what he did 15 years ago, like all the other HBK fans seem to do.

LOL...well I guess you got me there. HBK's two best friends thinks he's good. Great point.

HAHAHAHA

Ric Flair hasn't been good in about 15 years. HBK passed him in quality back in '93.

A fluke? No. A by-product of WWE revisionist history? Yes.

I mean, people actually believe that Flair was good. If that doesn't speak to the WWE's ability to manipulate people, I don't know what does.


Uhh, no, not really.

Because, people who aren't interesting don't see tickets or move merch. And since the whole point of wrestling is to be interesting and to make fans spend money, then those who do it best are the best workers.

I'm sure you made some point in all of this that you felt was good, but to be honest, I've grown weary of trying to decipher you posts.

Try using proper capitalization and grammar, and breaking your posts up into paragraphs, and then we'll talk about.

iInever did say that he didn't deserve everything that he has gotten he works hard loves the company and is a great worker, i simply said that every main event he has been wasn't good to me him beating umaga at new years revolution was hog was.h he got dominated the whole match and won with an roll up pin. i suppose that you think him vs JBL at wm21was a good match right? I also never denied the fact the Hunter said that he has improved and is a great worker who deserves everything he got, i just honestly thing his one year reign from from unforgiven 2007 until right before no mercy of 07 was a bore. you make it seem that just because fans love somebody or because they are a big draw that they are the best and i disagree mightily with that statement. i love that Cena loves wrestling as oppose to lets say a Brock Lesnar but that does not make him the best or at least to me or anybody where actual ring ability means anything. i also admit that i actually like Cenas character now because hes not as over donne, i enjoy his matches now, and even though he is the face of the company he actually share some of the spotlight and isn't hogging the spotlight. which i have a lot of respect for him for because at least more people have held the belt in his era than people did in the hogan era plus cena has put people over which to me is the most important thing for a wrestler to do. so Cena is a pretty solid character right now, but that said i still believe that calling all of his main event matches good is ridiculous nobody can change my mind on that. man Cena fans take it so personal if we dont call him God.

 

[davidavent]

Mark Henry. Boring as hell. No skills. Move on.

 

[Kennedy316]

Even though he's not quite main event status anymore, CM Punk is the winner of the most undeserving of his spot. He hasn't done anything for the WWE except be drug free. It's the only reason they pushed him.