Whos better, austin or the rock.

[Hulk Hogan's Brother]

what i ment by that was the rock was more athletic. as in Rock could do things that Austin couldnt do. again, his neck held him back, as did his knees later on.
but there is no denying the rock could pull out some pretty athletic moves, that DDT he pulled out here and there, the kip up, few things like that, but i agree that Austin has had more high profile matches

yes the rock could pull out more athletic moves sure but that does not make him the better wrestler.as i have mentioned earlier i find rock pretty flashy as a wrestler.i dont think rocky had a very sound grasp of psychology and he oversold big time.austin while he did not have the same athleticism he had a better brain for the business and has always delivered in the high profile matches you mention

 

[Hulk Hogan's Brother]

please post this list of yours since there was no 5 star match after 1997 and before 2004, you know when austin was the man. im thinking his match agaisnt hart was one, now what are those other 6 you speak of?

if you want to go with pwi match of the year, the rock has more than austin. rock vs mankind in the i quite match and rock vs hogan at wrestlemania. austin vs hart was austin's match of the year, and it deserves it, but you need to back up what you say now. toodles



i also find it interesting how the poll is going. austin is in the lead by a little. last time i saw this poll (yes it has been done before but that was many months ago so im good, lol) rock ended up winning by a couple votes. i guess it goes to show how this message board is changing.

ok so you want to say now that rocky is a better wrestler???? well check out your beloved pwi awards that you mention.austin has won wrestler of the year three times while rocky has won it only once when austin was out due to injury.austin also won feud of the year twice.also austin is the only guy to have won most popular wrestler as well as wrestler of the year in the same year(1998)

and as for the rock vs hogan match any person anywhere anyplace will tell you that it was only a spectacle.the actual wrestling in the match is actually quite shoddy.its just a case of as you say "at the right place at the right time".if austin was there in place of rocky not a damn thing would have changed and the match would have still won the award.

now lets go to wrestling observer newsletter awards.austin has won wrestler of the year once while rock has none.(list is dominated by flair and japanese wrestlers).he has won best box office draw twice while rock has won one.feud of the year has gone thrice to austin while rock has zero.and finally austin has won match of the year once while rock again has nil.

and as for austin's five star matches most matches that meltzer has rated as ****3/4 or ****1/2 have been rated five stars by most internet columnists.any way you take it if you are such a stickler for facts still austin has 1 while rock has 0.

in my opinion austin's five star matches are(in wwe only)

austin vs hart wm 13

hhh vs austin no way out 2001

rock vs austin wm 17

austin vs benoit smackdown

angle vs austin summerslam 2001

austin vs foley over the edge 1998

austin vs hart survivor series 1996

and he has numerous other 4 star plus matches to boot

 

[Brahma Bull]

ok so you want to say now that rocky is a better wrestler???? well check out your beloved pwi awards that you mention.austin has won wrestler of the year three times while rocky has won it only once when austin was out due to injury.austin also won feud of the year twice.also austin is the only guy to have won most popular wrestler as well as wrestler of the year in the same year(1998)

and as for the rock vs hogan match any person anywhere anyplace will tell you that it was only a spectacle.the actual wrestling in the match is actually quite shoddy.its just a case of as you say "at the right place at the right time".if austin was there in place of rocky not a damn thing would have changed and the match would have still won the award.

now lets go to wrestling observer newsletter awards.austin has won wrestler of the year once while rock has none.(list is dominated by flair and japanese wrestlers).he has won best box office draw twice while rock has won one.feud of the year has gone thrice to austin while rock has zero.and finally austin has won match of the year once while rock again has nil.

and as for austin's five star matches most matches that meltzer has rated as ****3/4 or ****1/2 have been rated five stars by most internet columnists.any way you take it if you are such a stickler for facts still austin has 1 while rock has 0.

in my opinion austin's five star matches are(in wwe only)

austin vs hart wm 13

hhh vs austin no way out 2001

rock vs austin wm 17

austin vs benoit smackdown

angle vs austin summerslam 2001

austin vs foley over the edge 1998

austin vs hart survivor series 1996

and he has numerous other 4 star plus matches to boot

you really like to assume dont you? its really funny. where did i even say the rock was a better wrestler. i thought the rock was a more entertaining wrestler, but scsa was more technical before his neck was broken.

all i was doing was having you back up what you said, which you were unable to do. you even said you can post them if you want.

and really, internet columnists. oooh, so some guy sitting at home says that stone cold had a 5 star match? and i dont even know if the hart austin match was 5 stars, i just gave it to you and asked for your other 6. then you just give some matches you like. i could give you matches from the rock that i like.

and about the rock vs hogan match. who is this anyone you speak of? yourself? i havent heard that thrown around too much. and while it wasnt technical, it was entertaining. which is the entire point of wrestling in the first place. and that right place at right time sums up stone colds popularity perfectly because he was in the right place at the right time to get the fued with vince that put him were he was.

 

[Jackal960]

Below are some of the quotes made in this forum about the Rock. And before you start reading it just remind yourself this: we are not talking about Gillberg or something we are talking about the Rock, one of the all time greats.

and as for the rock vs hogan match any person anywhere anyplace will tell you that it was only a spectacle. its just a case of as you say "at the right place at the right time".

rock has maybe 1 or 2 memorable matches.

i dont think rocky had a very sound grasp of psychology and he oversold big time.

The Rock was number one or number two for only one year in 2000.

Other than his matches with Foley, what did the Rock even do in 1999?

Austin might have needed Mcmahon but Rock needed Austin otherwise we would never have had the Rock.

The people's elbow, is one of the worst "popular" moves that I've seen (honestly, would you believe that to ever end a match? It looked so fake the way he used to pose before delivering it, as though only kids would get impressed by that)

How did he set the company up to make money? Lesnar wasn't a big draw. The Rock didn't set up the company for anything after he left. It put more pressure on HHH and damn near killed the WWE.

I mean you guys really believe what you are saying yes? Just for the sake of putting Austin over, you write like the Rock was some other version of Gillberg, you just laugh at him and thats it? If i never watched the Rock i would just turn off the TV whenever he appears, based on your comments.

 

[Brahma Bull]

HHH and the Rock got to the top because Austin wasn't there. Foley got over the Rock after he turned heel in 1998. I would love for you to tell me how The Rock got Big Show and Angle over.



Please tell me you're not saying that Austin was horrible in his feud with Bret Hart because you couldn't be further than the truth.

That Rock/Hurricane feud went real great for Helms didn't it. Where did it get him again?



The Rock was number one or number two for only one year in 2000. I guess you're going to ignore 1998 and 1999 when nobody was as hot as Austin. Just face it, Austin was on top for a longer period of time than The Rock even when he was in the midcard and fans were wanting Rocky to die.



He was still number two behind Stone Cold. Other than his matches with Foley, what did the Rock even do in 1999?



Keep telling yourself that.



Austin = gone, Rock = #1
Austin = back, Rock = #2

I suppose we're not going to talk about the great year Angle had in 2001 with his feuds with Benoit and Austin. What did Rock do in 2001? Lose at WM 17, left to make a movie, and came back and won at Survivor Series because ANGLE helped him.



How did he set the company up to make money? Lesnar wasn't a big draw. The Rock didn't set up the company for anything after he left. It put more pressure on HHH and damn near killed the WWE.

sorry it took me so long to reply. your post was pretty massive. lol

foley got over by beating the rock for the title. it was also the turning point in the ratings war. big show beat the rock to advance to wrestlemania. hhh got over with his fued with the rock and wrestlemania. angle won his first title off of the rock. jericho won his first title off the rock. lesner won his first title off the rock. i dont even know how you could not see the rock putting big show and angle over.

and sorry, that was a typo for the austin bret fued being horrible. i meant austin WASNT horrible. forgot the wasnt, lol. it was admittingly a good fued.

what fued did the rock have with the hurricane? their one match. all that match was for was for scsa to screw over the rock against someone like the hurricane to further THEIR fued.

the rock was on top in 2001 as well. leading the alliance and pushing jericho may mean nothing to you. but his battle the next year with hogan, instead of austin, begs to differ.

what did the rock do in 1999? the fued alone would be enough seeing as how again it was the turning point in the ratings war, not when austin held the title. also his wrestlemania battle with austin, i know that goes for austin too but im just answering your question. he was one of the lead villians with mc mahon behind him. he had the rock and sock connection, and the this in your life had one of the highest ratings ever for the wwe. so yeah, he had a good year. nice try though.

and i will keep telling myself that the rock was way better in promos, because its true. lol.

when did austin become number 1 when the rock came back? when he was looking for his hit and run driver? really. he fueded with rikishi. i mean he did win a royal rumble, and then turned heel. not the biggest year for old austin being number 1. he never made it back on top.

and yeah angle had a good year. he was no where close to the rock, but thats ok. wasnt he booed after turning on the alliance in the coming raws? it was a good try.

lesner wasnt a big draw? so all his matches with wwe legends and wrestlemania matches mean nothing i guess. hmm funny, most people did find lesner to be a draw.

and the rock set up the wwe to make money by establishing:

hhh, jericho, foley (even with his limited role), christian, big show, and he set up lesner and goldberg before they left so theyre more a wash.

and austin set up... benoit

yeah, try again.

 

[Hazardous]

hhh, jericho, foley (even with his limited role), christian, big show, and he set up lesner and goldberg before they left so theyre more a wash.

you did NOT just credit Rock to establishing those people..

HHH was "established" by HBK thanks. long before the rock was even in the main event picture. DX ruled RAW while Rock was fishing his IC title out of a river.

Jericho came into the WWF already established. yes he had a minor feud with rock early on, but when rock was leaving? Y2J was already one of the top guys, so wrong there.

Foley: if ANY one gets credit for establishing Foley in the WWE it is the undertaker. their matches made him a house hold name, way more than Rock did. sorry

Christian, they had a minor thing. Rock didnt do as much for Christian as you may think.

Big Show. nahh.. not really. no one really cared for him then

Lesnar. yes Rock dropped the title to him, that one i will give you, but it was Borck's feud's with Undertaker, and Angle that really made his career.

Goldberg. i think not. Goldberg had just got out of the HHH feud did he not? just dropped his title did he not? so again, already WELL established, and Rock did nothing for him that hadn't already been done.

 

[Hulk Hogan's Brother]

you really like to assume dont you? its really funny. where did i even say the rock was a better wrestler. i thought the rock was a more entertaining wrestler, but scsa was more technical before his neck was broken.

all i was doing was having you back up what you said, which you were unable to do. you even said you can post them if you want.

and really, internet columnists. oooh, so some guy sitting at home says that stone cold had a 5 star match? and i dont even know if the hart austin match was 5 stars, i just gave it to you and asked for your other 6. then you just give some matches you like. i could give you matches from the rock that i like.

and about the rock vs hogan match. who is this anyone you speak of? yourself? i havent heard that thrown around too much. and while it wasnt technical, it was entertaining. which is the entire point of wrestling in the first place. and that right place at right time sums up stone colds popularity perfectly because he was in the right place at the right time to get the fued with vince that put him were he was.

ok so you actually agree that austin was a better wrestler than rock.oooh really what happened someone held you at gunpoint to say that or did you come back to your senses.lol.

and i will say that as entertaining as the rock was austin was better than rock even after his neck injury.he gave friggin five star matches even after his injury

about the rock hogan match.good for you if you found it entertaining.i found it unwatchable after the staredown.but then i guess test of strenghts,headlocks,pushing a guy into a corner and then posing isnt my idea of entertainment.maybe it is yours

and i said " at the right place at the right time " to describe rock's match with hogan.if it were austin vs hogan the match would have been just as big if not bigger

sorry it took me so long to reply. your post was pretty massive. lol

foley got over by beating the rock for the title. it was also the turning point in the ratings war. big show beat the rock to advance to wrestlemania. hhh got over with his fued with the rock and wrestlemania. angle won his first title off of the rock. jericho won his first title off the rock. lesner won his first title off the rock. i dont even know how you could not see the rock putting big show and angle over.

and sorry, that was a typo for the austin bret fued being horrible. i meant austin WASNT horrible. forgot the wasnt, lol. it was admittingly a good fued.

what fued did the rock have with the hurricane? their one match. all that match was for was for scsa to screw over the rock against someone like the hurricane to further THEIR fued.

the rock was on top in 2001 as well. leading the alliance and pushing jericho may mean nothing to you. but his battle the next year with hogan, instead of austin, begs to differ.

what did the rock do in 1999? the fued alone would be enough seeing as how again it was the turning point in the ratings war, not when austin held the title. also his wrestlemania battle with austin, i know that goes for austin too but im just answering your question. he was one of the lead villians with mc mahon behind him. he had the rock and sock connection, and the this in your life had one of the highest ratings ever for the wwe. so yeah, he had a good year. nice try though.

and i will keep telling myself that the rock was way better in promos, because its true. lol.

when did austin become number 1 when the rock came back? when he was looking for his hit and run driver? really. he fueded with rikishi. i mean he did win a royal rumble, and then turned heel. not the biggest year for old austin being number 1. he never made it back on top.

and yeah angle had a good year. he was no where close to the rock, but thats ok. wasnt he booed after turning on the alliance in the coming raws? it was a good try.

lesner wasnt a big draw? so all his matches with wwe legends and wrestlemania matches mean nothing i guess. hmm funny, most people did find lesner to be a draw.

and the rock set up the wwe to make money by establishing:

hhh, jericho, foley (even with his limited role), christian, big show, and he set up lesner and goldberg before they left so theyre more a wash.

and austin set up... benoit

yeah, try again.

uhh okay so foley got over by winning the title from rocky.im sure his matches with undertaker dont mean a thing

also yeah foley winning of rock was a turning point in the ratings war but i seem to remember some bald guy interfered to help foley against corporation.im sure that doesnt mean a thing

btw hhh's first title defence was against austin which austin lost at no mercy 1999.austin also had a better feud with triple h as compared to the rock's feud with triple h.

austin vs bret was a good feud??? try awesome

also rock is remembered in 1999 for his matches with foley and austin and that this is your life interview segment.nothing else.

yeah and even if rock put big show over big show hasnt meant a thing over all these years.angle again had a much better feud with austin in 2001.

and i agree that rock was the top face by the end of 2001 there was a short time when angle had overtaken rock as the top face.from summerslam to unforgiven that is.austin was the top heel for most of 2001..also remember rock wasnt available for a considerable amount of time in 2001

the only guy rock can take credit for establishing is jericho.no one else

 

[Little Jerry Lawler]

sorry it took me so long to reply. your post was pretty massive. lol

foley got over by beating the rock for the title. it was also the turning point in the ratings war. big show beat the rock to advance to wrestlemania. hhh got over with his fued with the rock and wrestlemania. angle won his first title off of the rock. jericho won his first title off the rock. lesner won his first title off the rock. i dont even know how you could not see the rock putting big show and angle over.

Mankind was over for a couple of years before he faced the Rock due to his feuds with Austin and Undertaker.

HHH got over as a midcarder with the help of Foley and DX. Foley helped him again to get over as a main eventer in early 2000.

So what if Angle, Jericho, and Lesnar won their first title off the Rock? Austin won his first title off of Shawn Michaels but he got over during his feud with Hart. Big Show was over in 1999.

and sorry, that was a typo for the austin bret fued being horrible. i meant austin WASNT horrible. forgot the wasnt, lol. it was admittingly a good fued.

Glad we've cleared that up.

what fued did the rock have with the hurricane? their one match. all that match was for was for scsa to screw over the rock against someone like the hurricane to further THEIR fued.

What feud did Lesnar have with the Rock? Their one match. I can do that too.

the rock was on top in 2001 as well. leading the alliance and pushing jericho may mean nothing to you. but his battle the next year with hogan, instead of austin, begs to differ.

Don't get it twisted. Just because the Rock was the leader of the WWF doesn't mean he was the top guy. As long as the Rock and Austin were in the WWF at the same time, Austin will always be above Rock.

Austin/Hogan would have been a hundred times better than Rock/Hogan. True story.

what did the rock do in 1999? the fued alone would be enough seeing as how again it was the turning point in the ratings war, not when austin held the title. also his wrestlemania battle with austin, i know that goes for austin too but im just answering your question. he was one of the lead villians with mc mahon behind him. he had the rock and sock connection, and the this in your life had one of the highest ratings ever for the wwe. so yeah, he had a good year. nice try though.

The Rock clearly wasn't ready to face Austin at that point and time and it showed. I'm really impressed by the Rock and Sock Connection. I'll take Austin's championship runs and feuding with Undertaker and HHH over anything the Rock did and I forgot to include the Higher Power angle.

and i will keep telling myself that the rock was way better in promos, because its true. lol.

Whatever you say.

when did austin become number 1 when the rock came back? when he was looking for his hit and run driver? really. he fueded with rikishi. i mean he did win a royal rumble, and then turned heel. not the biggest year for old austin being number 1. he never made it back on top.

Let's compare Austin and Rock from No Mercy 2000 to Survivor Series 2001 shall we.

Rock: Lost the title to Angle, beat Angle for title at No Way Out, lost to Austin at WM, left to do movie, came back and did win at Survivor Series thanks to Angle. Big ups, Kurt.

Austin: Won the Royal Rumble, had arguably one of the greatest matches this decade with HHH at No Way Out, beat Rock at WM, aligned with HHH and started the Two Man Power Trip, had one of the best tag team feuds with Kane and Taker and one of the best matches with Jericho and Benoit, led the WWF against the Alliance, turned on WWF and joined the alliance, had a great feud with Angle.

What did the Rock do again? And you say Austin never made it back on top...lol

and yeah angle had a good year. he was no where close to the rock, but thats ok. wasnt he booed after turning on the alliance in the coming raws? it was a good try.

Angle had a phenomenal 2001. His KOTR match with Shane McMahon was one of the best street fights I've ever watched and his feud with Austin trumps anything the Rock did that year. I suggest you watch Summerslam and Unforgiven 2001 and get back to me.

lesner wasnt a big draw? so all his matches with wwe legends and wrestlemania matches mean nothing i guess. hmm funny, most people did find lesner to be a draw.

Lesnar wasn't a draw in any shape, form, or fashion. People pull up WM 19 and when he main evented it but the match everyone wanted to see was Hogan/McMahon. Let that sink in.

and the rock set up the wwe to make money by establishing:

hhh, jericho, foley (even with his limited role), christian, big show, and he set up lesner and goldberg before they left so theyre more a wash.

and austin set up... benoit

yeah, try again.

I disregard everything you said in this last statement because you brought up Christian. Stop while you're behind.

 

[CH David]

Austin was better. He drew more money, was a bigger star, and actually helped elevate the Rock. Austin's feud with Mr. McMahon and the Corporation was what would lead to Austin vs. Rock, which is one of my all time favorite rivalries. But from '98-'99, and arguably '97 after his Wrestlemania match with Bret Hart, Austin was the guy. His feud with McMahon shifted the WWF into another gear.

Once Austin took time off to have his surgery on his neck, that was when the Rock was given the chance to shine. It is apparent that if Austin did not take time off, Rock wouldn't have gotten as big as he did. Hell, look at when Austin came back. He won the Royal Rumble, and beat the Rock at Wrestlemania 17. I think that right there shows just who was the bigger star. I love the Rock, but it's Austin all the way.

 

[Brahma Bull]

you guys dont credit the rock because they had become established midcarders? the rock is the one that brought them to main event level. most of those guys won their first title off the rock. and do you guys not remember how the rock endorsed christian and christian dubbed himself the new peoples champ with the peeps. christian got over as a tag team with edge, but the rock helped launch christian as a singles competitor.

you can try to take away what the rock did, but history says otherwise.

 

[Hazardous]

you guys dont credit the rock because they had become established midcarders? the rock is the one that brought them to main event level. most of those guys won their first title off the rock. and do you guys not remember how the rock endorsed christian and christian dubbed himself the new peoples champ with the peeps. christian got over as a tag team with edge, but the rock helped launch christian as a singles competitor.

who are you talking about?!!! that list of yours? just because you won a world title, doesnt mean THAT put you as a main eventer. look at piper. Million Dollar Man. you saying those were not main event guys? HHH, Austin, Foley, Big Show ALL guys who were ALREADY main event status thanks. do you know what the Rock was doing when Austin was going for his first world title? he was in matches for the IC title. thats what. the Rock was main event because of Stone Cold. THAT was HIS big push up. Big Show, was against AUSTIN. rememebr when he first showed up? did he attack Rock? nooo it was Austin. and you can NOT give Rock credit for Jericho, as stated before, it was a COMBINE effort. and Christian? well he was wrestling single matches long before when the whole Rock thing started. he had been wrestling singles since the breaking of E&C. so Rock gave him a little nudge, was nothing more then what he did for hurricane, because where did it send christian? To the top... of TNA.

 

[Hulk Hogan's Brother]

just wanted to get a few quick thoughts on this debate.

firstly i think that there cant be a stone cold or a rock in the forseeable future.both of these guys were in a league of their own.pro wrestling just seemed kinda real when these two were around.

that being said i think that since the opening message of this debate was heavily in favour of rock this message of mine should highlight a few of stone cold's strengths

firstly i think stone cold is heavily underrated as a wrestler while rock is slightly overrated. people think that rock is a better wrestler as he is more athletic. now rock's athleticism is linked to the fact that he could do manouvers like sharpshooter and the floatover ddt. now as we all know that the sharpshooter requires more of technique than athleticism. and whichever way you see it the rock gave absolutely THE WORST SHARPSHOOTER OF ALL TIME. even austin though he used it sporadically gave a much better sharpshooter. and as for the floatover ddt well its like saying that any cruiserweight is a better wrestler than bret hart because bret hart did not do the hurricanara. the rock didnt even use that move that much.

austin as i have mentioned earlier had a much better grasp of psychology.he sold extremely well(better than rocky who oversold). if you observe closely a lot of austin's matches did not feature a lot of restholds and were generally very fast paced. sometimes with rock you would see him giving a headlock 12 minutes into a 15 minute match at a time when wrestlers should generally be hitting their big moves or secondary finishers.

also a point that i think most of us have missed is that during 2000 when rock was the top babyface with austin out of action almost all of rock's matches involved INTERFERENCE OF SOME KIND. sometimes it made sense but sometimes it was a headscratcher. it was as if even the wwf creative team at that time did not have a lot of confidence in rocky as a worker(in ring). if you look at all of rock's memorable matches they have involved interference of some kind or the other. on the other hand some of austin's best matches(against bret,hhh and angle)did not involve interference.

and i think one of the most stupid charges against austin is that he was not a company man. okay he left in 2002 but in 1997 he had A BROKEN NECK. he still continued wrestling. now some jackasses will say that austin needed wrestling or something like that but dude no matter how big a glory hound you are a broken neck has gotta hurt a lot. most people would have gone in for a surgery and had taken time off no matter what. austin could have returned a year later with a fully healed neck and any company would have snaffled him up at the first chance. but no he continued and did what was best for the company. it was only when guys like rock and hhh had been built up did he take time off.

another charge against austin is that he is nothing without the mcmahon feud. let me tell you that austin was the biggest thing by the end of 1997 BEFORE THE MCMAHON FEUD. as big a name as the rock is he does not even compare to what austin was at 1997. so 1998 was gonna be austin's year no matter what. hell austin was big even in mid 1997. even if you ignore the mcmahon feud youll see that austin still had great feuds. i think his feuds with hhh and angle are better than any feud rocky ever had except for his feud with austin

finally i would like to say that austin has been in more high profile matches than rock and he has always delivered.the rock is the greatest talker ever(austin is second imo) but in ring he does not even come close to austin.

PSh and i almost forgot the most ludricous thing ive ever heard is that austin would have been as popular as kane had he not feuded with mcmahon. the thing is kane has had matches with all of austin's opponents but he hasnt had even a four star match with any of them while austin has five star matches with them. why is that so???? i wonder

 

[Brahma Bull]

who are you talking about?!!! that list of yours? just because you won a world title, doesnt mean THAT put you as a main eventer. look at piper. Million Dollar Man. you saying those were not main event guys? HHH, Austin, Foley, Big Show ALL guys who were ALREADY main event status thanks. do you know what the Rock was doing when Austin was going for his first world title? he was in matches for the IC title. thats what. the Rock was main event because of Stone Cold. THAT was HIS big push up. Big Show, was against AUSTIN. rememebr when he first showed up? did he attack Rock? nooo it was Austin. and you can NOT give Rock credit for Jericho, as stated before, it was a COMBINE effort. and Christian? well he was wrestling single matches long before when the whole Rock thing started. he had been wrestling singles since the breaking of E&C. so Rock gave him a little nudge, was nothing more then what he did for hurricane, because where did it send christian? To the top... of TNA.

you had to be put over by a main eventer to be established. piper and ted were under the hogan years, where everyone lost to hogan. it changed and in order to get over you have to be put over. miz is great, but he is not a main eventer because he wasnt put over. same with foley, jericho, and the rest before the rock put them over. yeah the big show showed up against austin, but was put over by the rock. how was jericho a combined effort. it was easily his fued and title win over the rock that put in him in the main event. and what was christian doing before the rock. throwing a bitch fit in the ring each time he lost.

 

[Brahma Bull]

just wanted to get a few quick thoughts on this debate.

firstly i think that there cant be a stone cold or a rock in the forseeable future.both of these guys were in a league of their own.pro wrestling just seemed kinda real when these two were around.

that being said i think that since the opening message of this debate was heavily in favour of rock this message of mine should highlight a few of stone cold's strengths

firstly i think stone cold is heavily underrated as a wrestler while rock is slightly overrated. people think that rock is a better wrestler as he is more athletic. now rock's athleticism is linked to the fact that he could do manouvers like sharpshooter and the floatover ddt. now as we all know that the sharpshooter requires more of technique than athleticism. and whichever way you see it the rock gave absolutely THE WORST SHARPSHOOTER OF ALL TIME. even austin though he used it sporadically gave a much better sharpshooter. and as for the floatover ddt well its like saying that any cruiserweight is a better wrestler than bret hart because bret hart did not do the hurricanara. the rock didnt even use that move that much.

austin as i have mentioned earlier had a much better grasp of psychology.he sold extremely well(better than rocky who oversold). if you observe closely a lot of austin's matches did not feature a lot of restholds and were generally very fast paced. sometimes with rock you would see him giving a headlock 12 minutes into a 15 minute match at a time when wrestlers should generally be hitting their big moves or secondary finishers.

also a point that i think most of us have missed is that during 2000 when rock was the top babyface with austin out of action almost all of rock's matches involved INTERFERENCE OF SOME KIND. sometimes it made sense but sometimes it was a headscratcher. it was as if even the wwf creative team at that time did not have a lot of confidence in rocky as a worker(in ring). if you look at all of rock's memorable matches they have involved interference of some kind or the other. on the other hand some of austin's best matches(against bret,hhh and angle)did not involve interference.

and i think one of the most stupid charges against austin is that he was not a company man. okay he left in 2002 but in 1997 he had A BROKEN NECK. he still continued wrestling. now some jackasses will say that austin needed wrestling or something like that but dude no matter how big a glory hound you are a broken neck has gotta hurt a lot. most people would have gone in for a surgery and had taken time off no matter what. austin could have returned a year later with a fully healed neck and any company would have snaffled him up at the first chance. but no he continued and did what was best for the company. it was only when guys like rock and hhh had been built up did he take time off.

another charge against austin is that he is nothing without the mcmahon feud. let me tell you that austin was the biggest thing by the end of 1997 BEFORE THE MCMAHON FEUD. as big a name as the rock is he does not even compare to what austin was at 1997. so 1998 was gonna be austin's year no matter what. hell austin was big even in mid 1997. even if you ignore the mcmahon feud youll see that austin still had great feuds. i think his feuds with hhh and angle are better than any feud rocky ever had except for his feud with austin

finally i would like to say that austin has been in more high profile matches than rock and he has always delivered.the rock is the greatest talker ever(austin is second imo) but in ring he does not even come close to austin.

PSh and i almost forgot the most ludricous thing ive ever heard is that austin would have been as popular as kane had he not feuded with mcmahon. the thing is kane has had matches with all of austin's opponents but he hasnt had even a four star match with any of them while austin has five star matches with them. why is that so???? i wonder

where to start.

austin wasnt a company man. he walked out three times. he needed wrestling so he came back. end of story.

austin was close to something before the mcmahon fued but what else besides his fued with hart and kotr does anyone remember from austin before the mcmahon fued. thats all he had

and finally, dude i already called you out on the five star match thing and you only gave me matches you like. stop making completely made up claims. i dont even know if austins match with hart was five stars, but if it was that was all he had. so your last talking point involving what i said about kane is complete made up bullshit.

 

[Hulk Hogan's Brother]

where to start.

austin wasnt a company man. he walked out three times. he needed wrestling so he came back. end of story.

austin was close to something before the mcmahon fued but what else besides his fued with hart and kotr does anyone remember from austin before the mcmahon fued. thats all he had

and finally, dude i already called you out on the five star match thing and you only gave me matches you like. stop making completely made up claims. i dont even know if austins match with hart was five stars, but if it was that was all he had. so your last talking point involving what i said about kane is complete made up bullshit.

uhh okay austin walked out twice if i remember correctly. (in 2002 and 2005)both times i would say he was justified. he didnt like the fact that he was losing to brocklesnar on raw and that he was losing to coach(of all people) on taboo tuesday. granted that both stories have come from austin only but the fact of the matter is no one has ever denied em. but i guess since you are such an austin hater youll obviously believe them to be false.

also even if he walked out you got to remember that he continued in wwf in 1997 despite a broken neck. tell me what was stopping him from taking a year off and coming back fully healed. vince has always liked and respected austin a lot and he would have been welcomed back with open arms.

also the thing is the austin/hart feud is one of the best feuds in wrestling history. it is bigger than anything the rock has ever done in wrestling. plus austin won tag team titles and intercontinental titles in 1997. i guess that is nothing though.plus austin did have good matches with owen and shawn in 1997. which are again irrelevant i guess. oh and the pops he was getting. they arent that important in wrestling.

and okay lets clarify the five star matches. austin/hart is definately five stars and one of the four five star matches(in wwf) according to wrestling observer newsletter. what i am saying is that the wrestling observer is not a bible of wrestling.there are other people who have been writing about wrestling for more than a decade who haave rated the matches i have mentioned as five stars.

what you are doing is quoting the wrestling observer newsletter. and anyhow rocky has never ever had a five star match(according to wrestling observer newsletter). so end of story.

what i am also saying is that austin and kane have both had feuds aand matches with the same set of people ie hhh,angle,benoit.but how is it that austin's matches and feuds with these guys are considered some of the best ever while kane's feuds nd matches WITH THE SAME SET OF GUYS is considered one of the worst of all time???

the thing is you fail to acknowledge that austin had great feuds with guys not named mcmahon as well nd that he is one of the greatest of all time.

AND THATS THE BOTTOMLINE duh you know the rest.

 

[patriotjay]

I dont think the WWE ever had or will have again 2 top guys at the caliber of The Rock and Austin,If they were to have been from different eras they would have both been the number 1 guy alone.Its so even to me its like splitting hairs.But you gotta go with Austin if for no other reason his feud with Vince saved WWE from crumbling under WCW's bank roll,And brought WWE Attitude to the highest level pro wrestling ever seen surpassing the 80's rock n wrestling boom.Austin and The Rock are the reason we dont watch Nitro on mondays now!

 

[TwistingDragon]

The Rock and Austin were very similar to Ying and Yang. They were both extremely different but they balanced each other out regardless. I've asked myself many times who the better man between the two of them is and it's hard to determine.

They both had their highlights and now they're both making movies. I think they both stand on equal ground. I do favor Rock for his hilarious promos though.

 

[AwesomeRko]

In my opinion the two greatest superstars of all time. Yet I have to say the Rock overall takes it. Noone had the capacity to work a crowd like The Rock, he was in my opinion by far the most charismatic on mic superstar of all time he got the crowd involved to great effect, was comfortable and relaxed on the mic and was always capable of quick witted improvisation this is reflected by the ratings for his segments higher than anhy other superstar by and large. Stone Cold did cut some great segments also but the majority of these involved him beating the hell out of someone to comedic effect eg Mcmahon in hospital or Booker T in the supermarket. Yes Stone Cold's emergence did a vast amount in sparking the attitude era and leading to an overturn in the Monday Night war. But at this point the Rock was new to wwe was a young man with little previous wrestling experience and had been cast as Rocky Maivia, a baby faced youth with a dated appeal similar to HOgans which Dwayne Johnson himself admits he wasnt comfortable with. THe Rock shouldnt be punished for the fact he hadnt had enough time to establish his character in wwe at the outset of the MOnday Night Wars. Also by 1999 when the Rock was consolidated as a masisve face his merchandise sales actually rated higher than Austins illustratying that whilst both were operating simultaneously as faces The Rocks oull was begining to outweigh Austins at a time when Austin was still being pushed as the main guy. The Rock then carried the company through Austins knee injury and even after his return in my opinion Austin as never able to topple Rock from the position as the wwes number one guy, hence his heel turn leading up to team wwe vs team wcw/ecw. Finally the Rock in my opinion was more diverse than Austin both were greta faces but the Rock was a far better heel, the Rock was also able to turn heel without ever compromising the egoistic trash talking nature of his character, whereas Austin in his heel turns perhaps most notably in his allegiance with Mcmahon to defeat the Rock at Wrestlemania did compromise his dont give a shit ass kicking renegade persona. Overall though two of the best performers ever whose matches generated a sense of excitement/ atmosphere that hasnt been felt since they left. Seriously but go Rocky

 

[byrnside]

I'm going with The Rock based solely on personal preference, and here's why:

I was never THAT into Austin. Granted, he was a revolutionary performer that changed the face of not only the WWE, but also pro-wrestling overall. I certainly will not sit here and try to devalue any of his accomplishments, because he certainly up there on the level with Hulkamania as far as a draw. He also won every major WWE title and accomplishment. But the thing about Austin, for me, was that his promos rarely ...electrified me. Cheesy pun. I know. Don't get me wrong, there are definitely a lot of promos/segments that Austin did that were amazing. But after '98, his character grew relatively stale for me. The Rock's character on the other hand, did not. He constantly evolved either as a heel or face. His promos have remained so far above any one else's since and for me, that's almost fifty percent of the wrestling business. The Rock was also a better in-ring performer. Austin was so limited, whether it was because of his character or his injuries or his health, argue whichever way you like.

 

[Little Jerry Lawler]

The Rock was never the top guy until Austin got injured and even then you had Foley and HHH who put on great matches with The Rock. The popularity of Austin was one of the main reasons WWF won the Monday Night Wars and 1999 Rock was terrible but 2000 Rock was great. Once Austin came back from injury, it was always going to be Austin first and Rock second even during the Invasion angle. Austin had greater matches than the Rock in my opinion and that's why I think Austin is better.

 

[The Mighty Tiger]

Someone on here already said it best there like Ying and Yang, which means there equal. Now I don't know what the hell some of you die heart Austin fans was watching but there was a time when the man was second to The Rock. There was a reason why at Wrestlemania 17 Stonecold didn't beat the Rock cleanly, & that's cause Rock was the #1 guy at the time. Stoncold wasn't even in the title picture that much when he came back cause Rock was running shit. I know there was others two but we are talking about Rock & Austin. Just cause Austin was your favorite & you can relate to his character more doesn't mean he was the number 1 guy his whole career. Some of you ppl need to get over it there was a time when Rock was #1 & it wasn't just when Austin was gone. When both of them was the #1 guy during there respective times Wrestling has never been better!!!

In conclusion it doesn't matter if some of you don't want to get out of denial or not & give both men there proper respects. The bottom line is that Stonecold & The Rock are to of the best things to happen to wrestling.

 

[Kinsey144]

just want to make the point that the arguement

"without austin there would be no rock", therefore austin is better is an invalid one.

i will compare it to the sport - roger federer has a tennis coach. without this tennis coach, federer would not have become the tennis player he is today. however federer is undoubtably a better tennis player than him.

Just because someone WAS better, doesn't mean they can't surpass them and go to greater heights

 

[Chris1-16]

The Rock was never the top guy until Austin got injured and even then you had Foley and HHH who put on great matches with The Rock. The popularity of Austin was one of the main reasons WWF won the Monday Night Wars and 1999 Rock was terrible but 2000 Rock was great. Once Austin came back from injury, it was always going to be Austin first and Rock second even during the Invasion angle. Austin had greater matches than the Rock in my opinion and that's why I think Austin is better.

Are you serious?

Rock by the time Austin came back in 2000 he was considered lame. Revisionist history says that Rock was booed after Austin came back because he was considered stale. The funny thing about it is that the 2000 version of him from the 2nd half of the year was almost nothing like the 1999 version, his character was watered down by the 2nd half of '00.

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See what I mean, you can not look at those 2 promos with a straight face and say he was exactly the same in between that 1 year, the difference in voice is the biggest giveaway. Austin was the one that was the same ol' same ol' when you compare a July '99 promo to a December '00 promo.

Oh, and HHH was the one that got the push of the century after SvS '99, not The Rock. What was Rock doing the month after SvS '99? Yeah, feuding with Al Snow and the New Age Outlaws, don't act like he immediately went to the top of the mountain after SvS '99, he didn't.

HHH on the other hand was all over the TV with the McMahons, despite the fact that the feud didn't really draw that much heat and it was very one sided. Then in '00 HHH starts dominating the shows almost every night, in '99 even when he was the champ he hardly ever got the upper hand on the main eventers with Austin and Undertaker around, it had to take for these 2 to leave for fans to take HHH seriously as a main eventer.

 

[The Corporate Champ]

Better at what exactly?

Ill let you guess who my personal favorite was. Rock was undoubtedly the promo king. From his promo about Billy Gunn's conversation with God to his Nation of Domination promo's about Triple H, the 1 legged man. Nobody could cut a promo like The Rock and the whole world knows it. Hell, Jericho ranks The Rock as 'if not the greatest, then definitely in the top 3'. And that's just as the whole package.

Austin was great because he brought what the people needed. Everybody had a boss who they hated and Austin was the guy playing out what each guy wanted to do to their boss.

As an athlete, The Rock had a diverse range of moves that slowly diminished as his wrestling career went on. Austin was great at working a match (half of it being down to his character, the other half being down to his delivery).

All in all, they both took each other to phenomenal heights and until there's clarification on what is meant by 'better', this will be an age-old debate.

 

[SCrooked1]

The Rock was never the top guy until Austin got injured and even then you had Foley and HHH who put on great matches with The Rock.

Yeah, Austin was definitely more over of the 2 in the 2nd half of of 1999.

That's why when there was a poll on rajahwwf.com a few months before Survivor Series '99 that asked who the fans thought was more popular at the time, Austin lost by more than 1,000 votes.