Rock only became mega popular cause Austin wasn't around?

:rolleyes:

That was an award, not proof that Austin was the top draw in '99, read this:

The awards cover from 12/1/1998 to 11/30/1999.

Best Box Office Draw
1. Steve Austin
2. The Rock
3. Vader

Keiji Muto or Atsushi Onita may deserve that third spot, but their bad matches killed attendance afterwards, so Vader gets third. Austin and The Rock are so far ahead of everyone else that mentioning a third person probably doesn't do them justice. Austin gets the nod because the emergence of the Rock as a true draw didn't happen until the end of the year. I think HHH will definitely be here next year.

http://web.archive.org/web/200101100406/http://wrestline.com/columns/miller/dec99/miller122499.htm

First of all, the awards don't even cover the calendar year, it covers the time period from 12/1/98 to 11/30/99 (December 1998 is not 1999, does December 1999 not exist?).

Secondly, The Rock wrestled more than Austin did in 1999, most notably from August-December since Rock wasn't a heel anymore by that time, duh! Just bringing up who headlined the PPVs is not even close to enough proof Austin was the top draw for the year. And you can't even say Austin was the bigger draw in the fall, because The Rock wrestled way more than he did.

But of course if Austin was named the top draw in '99 instead of The Rock in the sites I brought up, no one would've had anything to say.

The difference between a most popular wrestler award and a box office office draw award is you don't need numbers or figures to determine who was the most popular wrestler that year. The best box office draw award is who in their opinion was the top draw for the year, not who actually was the top draw.
 
Here is the only fact that any of you need to know. When ever austin and rock were both top stars, austin was always #1. I heard jim ross say it, and jim ross has never lied to me before.
 
Here is the only fact that any of you need to know. When ever austin and rock were both top stars, austin was always #1. I heard jim ross say it, and jim ross has never lied to me before.

:lmao:

Wasn't Austin JR's "boy"?

He was probably jealous of Rock's popularity at the time too, remember Rock was the heel in 1998 (the only time that year he wasn't a heel at all throughout the month was October) all the way up until mid '99.

I noticed because throughout '99 when Rock was very over he seemed to downplay his popularity at times by saying things like "he's certainly electrifying" and "many are chanting for the great one" in an unexcited voice, while damn near having a heart attack when Austin was doing his usual act.
 
no he said it on a wrestling legends thing for wwe 24/7. And it is the truth. just look in 2001 when austin was a heel. He was still on every poster, in every main event, hell he was wrestling for the wwe title while the rock was wrestling for the wcw belt. Now if that does't show you, who was number 1 and who was number two, then i don't know what does.
 
no he said it on a wrestling legends thing for wwe 24/7. And it is the truth. just look in 2001 when austin was a heel. He was still on every poster, in every main event, hell he was wrestling for the wwe title while the rock was wrestling for the wcw belt. Now if that does't show you, who was number 1 and who was number two, then i don't know what does.

Are you saying that because Austin had the WWF Title and Rock had the WCW Title, despite the fact that Rock wasn't even there for the first 4 months that Austin had the WWF Title is proof that Austin was #1 that year?

:lol:

Rock didn't have the WWF Title from August-December because he didn't need it, he was already a 6X Champion by then G (tied with Austin for most title reigns at the time). Added to the fact that Vince was not gonna let the WCW Title headline over the WWF Title, I can guarantee you if Rock and Austin switched belts that year Austin wouldn't have headlined Unforgiven and No Mercy.

He only let the WCW Title headline Summerslam because of The Rock's PPV return, he obviously didn't see the WCW Title on the same level as the WWF Title.
 
Are you saying that because Austin had the WWF Title and Rock had the WCW Title, despite the fact that Rock wasn't even there for the first 4 months that Austin had the WWF Title is proof that Austin was the #1 that year?

:lol:

Rock didn't have the WWF Title from August-December because he didn't need it, he was already a 6X Champion by then G.

What i am is saying is whenever the rock and austin were both their the rock was always number 2. And thats why he wasn't in the main events as much that year. Every month was austin vs somebody else for the wwe championship in the main event. The rock was always lower than him on the card. Its a fact. And when you say that the rock didn't have the wwe title because he didn't need it. Neither did austin. No one really needs anything in the wwe. He was champion, because the wwe needed austin to be.
 
What i am is saying is whenever the rock and austin were both their the rock was always number 2. And thats why he wasn't in the main events as much that year. Every month was austin vs somebody else for the wwe championship in the main event. The rock was always lower than him on the card. Its a fact. And when you say that the rock didn't have the wwe title because he didn't need it. Neither did austin. No one really needs anything in the wwe. He was champion, because the wwe needed austin to be.

:twak:

Wow you just don't get it do you? Austin was already the WWF Champion when The Rock came back! The only PPVs Rock didn't wrestle last in 2001 when he came back were Unforgiven, No Mercy, and Vengeance.

Do you really think if Austin didn't have the WWF Title he would've headlined those shows?

For the first 4 months of Austin's title reign, Rock was filming the Scorpion King! Of course he wasn't in the main event as much that year man, Rock wasn't even there from April-late July.
 
:rolleyes:

That was an award, not proof that Austin was the top draw in '99, read this:

It's laughable that you are questioning the authenticity of this award when you have basically not given any proof till now that Rock was the top draw. For all the proof that you have tried to muster up, you have only come up with Rock drawing more in big arenas. "Rock was the biggest draw of 1999" is a statement that I have never heard till now in any of the articles that you have provided.

Also, there are lots of industry insiders who take part in this voting process. Dave Meltzer might also have done some research before giving the award. It is not as if he would have given the award to Funaki if the fans would have voted so.


First of all, the awards don't even cover the calendar year, it covers the time period from 12/1/98 to 11/30/99 (December 1998 is not 1999, does December 1999 not exist?).

December 1999 is obviously covered in the next year. At any rate it still covers one whole year which is as good an indicator as any. Also this should benefit Rock if anything else. Wasn't Rock champion in December 1998? Still, he hasn't won? That's rather amusing.


Secondly, The Rock wrestled more than Austin did in 1999, most notably from August-December since Rock wasn't a heel anymore by that time, duh! Just bringing up who headlined the PPVs is not even close to enough proof Austin was the top draw for the year. And you can't even say Austin was the bigger draw in the fall, because The Rock wrestled way more than he did.

The guy who headlines a PPV gets the most credit for drawing fans into the PPV. Are you serious here? I am asking this because you have used the same logic to state that Rock was a bigger draw in one of the links that you posted and yet when I state the same reason for Austin, you are just regarding it as bullcrap. Here is wha one of your links say:

Rock did set the all-time pro wrestling record for headlining the most shows that drew more than 10,000 fans paid during 1999

So headlining most shows that drew more than 10000 fans matters for Rock but Austin headlining most PPV's does not prove that he is the bigger draw. That's a rather hypocritical thing to say.

But of course if Austin was named the top draw in '99 instead of The Rock in the sites I brought up, no one would've had anything to say.

That may be the case but that is not because everyone is biased towards Austin but because Austin had already won the biggest draw award in 1999 and his name coming up on those sites would have only gone with what had already been mentioned.

You are basically trying to use these sites as proof that Rock drew more than Austin despite the fact that it says nowhere that every arena big or small has been taken into consideration. In fact, it clearly states that only big arenas have been taken into consideration. That is why people are unwilling to accept this as any proof.


The difference between a most popular wrestler award and a box office office draw award is you don't need numbers or figures to determine who was the most popular wrestler that year. The best box office draw award is who in their opinion was the top draw for the year, not who actually was the top draw.

Uh, where is this most popular wrestler award you keep talking about? I have never heard of this award as far as the WON is concerned. There is one such award that PWI institutes and The Rock has indeed won that award in 1999. Austin came second but that is also no proof of Rock being the number one draw that year. RVD won that in both 2001 and 2002, though, basically killing all credibility that the award might have had prior to that.
 
And there's no clear proof of Austin being the undisputed #1 draw by the end of 1999 either. Austin was still the top star in late 1998-early 1999, when Rock was a heel. I never said Rock was the top draw or the most popular star as a heel, just because Rock was the WWF Champion towards the end of '98 doesn't mean he was the biggest draw at the time, was HHH the top draw as WWF Champion in late '99? RVD winning the award twice killed any credibility the awards had?!? Wow, now people are downplaying how popular RVD was at the time, RVD was supposed to be a heel in 2001 yet didn't get booed at all! Fact is people only say Austin was the more popular star in the summer and fall of '99 just because Rock was the heel earlier in the year.

When I'm talking about how big of a star Rock was in '99, I'm only talking about after he turned face. Why would I bring up the months he was a heel?
 
I think they couldn't neglect the Rock's popularity by then. He would have been big with or without Austin. But anyway I think without the popularity of Austin, The Rock wouldnt be such a big name too.
 
no he said it on a wrestling legends thing for wwe 24/7. And it is the truth. just look in 2001 when austin was a heel. He was still on every poster, in every main event, hell he was wrestling for the wwe title while the rock was wrestling for the wcw belt. Now if that does't show you, who was number 1 and who was number two, then i don't know what does.

LMAO! JR is austin's puppet, always been. As far as 2001 goes, well, we've been through this a million times, austin is protected by booking, and if vince say you're gonna be number 1 then you will. Not taking anything away from austin, but he didn't deserve to hold the title for that long in 2001. He couldn't bring much heat as a heel, was injured all the time, barely competed in the ring and when he did he sucked, and you'd be crazy if you think austin was the bigger draw in that year. Like I said, austin was THE guy that year not because he was better than rock or more popular, but because vince mcmahon said so.
 
And there's no clear proof of Austin being the undisputed #1 draw by the end of 1999 either.

The WON award is what most people would happily accept as proof mostly because it is voted on by a number of industry insiders. Your proof on the other hand cannot be accepted as proof because it is clearly mentioned that only big arenas have been taken into consideration.


Austin was still the top star in late 1998-early 1999, when Rock was a heel. I never said Rock was the top draw or the most popular star as a heel, just because Rock was the WWF Champion towards the end of '98 doesn't mean he was the biggest draw at the time, was HHH the top draw as WWF Champion in late '99?

How can a heel not be a top draw? Especially since Rock was main eventing PPV's as a heel. Fact is, Austin was just bigger at that time but I guess you have understood that fact.

Fact is people only say Austin was the more popular star in the summer and fall of '99 just because Rock was the heel earlier in the year.

When I'm talking about how big of a star Rock was in '99, I'm only talking about after he turned face. Why would I bring up the months he was a heel?

I won't say that I agree with you but I would ask you to understand what this arguement is about. It is about opportunity and the fact that if Austin would have stayed, Rock would not have got the opportunity to main event until much later. He would have kept feuding with the likes of Billy Gunn and Bulldog and still gotten the huge pops but that would have meant nothing because the position at the top was blocked by Austin and a heel HHH. Rock would have only risen up the card when Austin would have turned heel and since they were pushing HHH as the top heel by the end of 1999, I assume that WWF would have let him had a good run before giving that place to Austin. Turning both HHH and Austin heel would have been detrimental to HHH and we know WWF does not plan that way. And we do not know that by the time Rock would have risen to the main event, he would have been as hot as he was when Austin left.
 
*sighs*

Heels can also be draws, but faces obviously are more favored since they get the cheers. Rock was already a star and a draw as a heel, but he became an even bigger star/draw after he turned face, this is very obvious.

If you don't agree, then oh well, can't agree on everything. I was a fan of Austin in '99 but I'm not gonna put The Rock down either.
 
All i want to say is that it goes against statistical reasoning to believe that being a top draw for shows with over 10000 people doesnt show that the rock was the top draw. Unless you can provide a confounding variable as to how it would be different for small shows than big shows, the rock fans have provided proof. Austin fans, we challenge you to do the same.
 
All i want to say is that it goes against statistical reasoning to believe that being a top draw for shows with over 10000 people doesnt show that the rock was the top draw. Unless you can provide a confounding variable as to how it would be different for small shows than big shows, the rock fans have provided proof. Austin fans, we challenge you to do the same.

Also, I think it would be better to be a bigger draw at shows with over 10,000 fans would be better than being a big draw at shows under 10,000, as that's more money made........plus the vast majority of gates in 1999 would of probably been over 10,000 anyway as the WWF was at the height of popularity.
 
"Rock only became mega popular cause Austin wasn't around?"

I think the OP is reaching in the title of the thread. The Rock became mega popular for more reasons than just because Stone Cold not being around for an important period of time. The Rock got to such a higher level by: Branching racial divides for multicultural kids who used to only have a passing interest in wrestling, superior ad-libbing, comedic timing, comparable physique to top carders, WWF basic in-ring ability. There's probably even more to say than that. Stone Cold not being around may have helpedhim but it's only one item in a long list of attributes and scenarios that propelled The Rock to where he was/is.

I've read KB's posts after that and he just comes across as a guy who wouldn't even be open to the idea that The Rock is and was more popular than SCSA both at the height of Rock's popularity and in the present. And since everyone's entitled to their own opinion, we'll just agree to disagree.
 
Rock started getting really over in 98, his face turn in 99 just cemented it. He was working with a lot of different stars, most notably Foley, not just Austin. He was huge before Austin's injury hiatus.

Besides, sometimes being in the right place at the right time is a good thing. Ever wonder if HHH might have had a slower rise if HBK didn't leave on injury... would Brett Hart have become WWE champ if Ric Flair was never injured in 92 or would they have followed through with plans to give it Ultimate Warrior (who got fired shortly after Flair got hurt, ironically in a match against him for the title)... Would McMahon's grand plans for national and eventually international expansion have been as successful without Hulk Hogan...Would WWE have had their late 90's resurgence if WCW didn't fire Steve Austin...

Who knows, I don't begrudge a guy who takes advanage of opportunities. However, I think if you look back Rock was way over and really big before Austin's hiatus.
 

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