Did the WWF/WWE see The Rock as inferior to Stone Cold?

[Tastycles]

Austin is seen as the bigger star in hindsight because he was the one who took WWF forward after literally two years of being destroyed. In my opinion The Rock had more talent whereas Austin had one amazing feud. After the blowout of WrestleMania 15, the WWE spent the next 3 or 4 years trying to recreate the buzz around Austin and McMahon with various degrees of success. Particularly towards the end of his career, Austin was going through the motions and trying to relive former glories, whereas The Rock continued to develop for years.

Still, Austin's 1998-1999 was better than anything that ever happened to The Rock. I suppose what I'd say is if the WWE had to erase one from history, it would be The Rock, but if they had to choose a clone of one of them to debut tomorrow, they'd choose The Rock.

 

[GIMH]

Interesting topic. After watching Raw last night (I Sky+ it) it struck me that Batista mentioned the torch going from Stone Cold to Cena. My mate and I looked at each other and said, "whoa, did the Rock not happen?" So I think the short answer to the opening question is yes, WWE do view Austin as superior.

I haven't got a whole lot to add that hasn't already been said, but here goes. Basically I've always personally felt that regardless of reason, cause, effect, whatever, Rock at his peak (2000) WAS as big as Austin had been. But the edge Austin would always have was that Rock would never have been able to get that big but for Austin. Not because I believe Austin giving Austin a rub (because well, IMO he didn't) but because nobody could have got that big in the WWF without Austin.

Additionally I guess you've got the fact that many people consider Rock's signature feud to be with Austin, whereas you wouldn't say the same in return, Rock was nowhere near Austin's signature opponent, that was Vince, or Bret perhaps. That being said, I've always highly disputed Austin being the name synonymous with Rock as for me it's Triple H, in fact that is my favourite wrestling feud of all-time, only Edge and Cena have been able to come close since.

But regardless of all this, I've always preferred Rock, I love him and would mark out for a one-off return to the ring like nothing else. But I doubt it will ever happen, before anyone jumps on me!

Oh and to answer someone's question from earlier, there was a pilot episode of Smackdown in April 1999 and it started in full in August that year, Austin was still about therefore.

 

[marklouis]

I think this debate is similar to a debate you could have with regards to the NBA. Everyone says Michael Jordan is the greatest player ever, but he was only able to become a huge superstar because Magic and Bird saved the NBA from oblivion. Austin is like Magic/Bird-he helped save the WWE from losing the Monday Night Wars, and Vince owes him big time.

At his peak, Austin was as big as any wrestler in history, Hogan included. The Rock was able to come in after Austin and build on the company's success. The Rock has become a bigger pop culture star thanks to his movies, but was he ever the better wrestler? I don't think so. Austin had some legendary matches, while I never saw the Rock as a great wrestler. He was a great entertainer, but would he ever appear on a "greatest match" list? I liked both guys, but I liked Austin more. But I don't think there was ever any disrespect towards the Rock. He was a huge star, made a ton of money. But he just wasn't Stone Cold.

 

[reddevil69]

Both guys were huge stars, but I think the nod goes to Austin. I've never seen crowds pop before or since like the way did when Austin came down to the ring in the Zamboni in Detroit or with the beer truck in 1999. He was on the cover of Rolling Stone and TV guide and transcended the business more than the Rock.

Rock is a success in films because he left wrestling and chose that as his career path, and he is very good at it but he did not transcend wrestling like Austin did when he was on top. Austin shoving Tyson was all over ESPN,TSN and all the other nightly news sports broadcasts in every market small or large in 1998...it was in the papers the next day and it took place before the feud with McMahon officially started. Rock never had that kind of publicity for any of his angles ever. Rock is known as "that wrestler who became a movie star". Austin is known as the highest grossing performer in the history of the business, who sold more merchandise and had higher buy rates then anyone before him or since.

as far as Rock being called Randy Savage to Austins Hogan there is a major difference: Austin put Rock over one, two, three, clean in the middle of the ring at Wrestlemania 19, in what was his last match.

Hogan never did the honors for Savage ever.

 

[Brahma Bull]

the poll so far is showing that the answer is no.

now i know my name is brahma bull so im obviously a rock fan, but everyone has their favorite, i just wear it on my sleeve.

the question is not about who is bigger. we could debate that forever. rock had more memorable fueds and created a lot more main event people through his rubs than austin, but austin had the greatest fued of all time with vince (i actually credit vince more for the fued than austin, but that is another subject.) so im not going to say rock is bigger or scsa, the question is if the view of the wwe was that the rock was inferior, and my answer is a resounding NO.

look at the actions of the wwe towards the end of the guys careers'. the rock saves the wwe from wcw, not austin. and rock (heel) goes over austin (face) clean at wrestlemania, which hardly ever happens to established wrestlers. the 2 wrestlemanias scsa won had vince hugely involved. the only no bullshit match between the two at wrestlemania saw the rock win.

not to mention hogan gave the rock the torch, as did austin to rock if you consider wrestlemania.

now why does vince keep calling austin the best ever and have people say the torch was passed from austin. easy, i cant believe no one has said it. its because austin was still around doing stuff for wwe while the rock has hardly done anything in wwe since leaving.

austin has still been hugely used by wwe and the rock hasnt. quite frankly, more fans know austin now because he still needed wrestling to stay in the spotlight. no one except wrestling fans give a shit about austin, so austin is wrestling's hero. rock left for hollywood. do you actually think that vince would ever put the rock as the biggest. think what that is saying. "yeah our biggest star left us to do movies. oh no, he didnt just leave to join wcw like hogan, he is no longer a wrestler." not to mention who got austin over as the head of the company? VINCE. vince's ego is too huge to not say scsa is the best, it is because of vince that austin got to his level, yet it is the rock that got to his own level.

really it comes down to, the best business decision by far, is to say austin is the biggest, not the rock. that is why the wwe says austin is bigger.

come on, you guys dont think that vince still knows how to work people?

 

[>HERO<]

It's a simple answer, YES. But that doesn't mean they disrespected the rock's talent or his skills.
I know austin fans are embarassed to accept the fact that rocky was more popular that austin albiet a little bit. And why wouldn't he be. He was a total package. Good looking guy, great charisma, great in-ring performer and the best on mic. His popularity tanscended the industry. He was a better entertainer, he wouldn't be in hollywood today if he wasn't. It's like vince russo had said it himself, ''the rock had more colours than austin.''
The rock started stealing spotlight from austin in mid 99 even though he didn't main event. Mcmahon knew that the rock was getting hot and hotter that's why he let go of steve for his long pending neck surgery, because he knew the rock had the people in his hand.
And i think mcmahon paid rocky back, by making him the first ever 7 times wwe champ.
So after all this, why austin is superior? It's simple. In 97 when wwe was nearing bankruptcy, mcmahon probably didn't know what to do. And there was autsin. Austin who was pushed to become heel actually became a much loved superstar through whom people could let out their agression and anger, which i think they always wanted to do. So he was pushed, became champ at WM, and the very next raw wwe scored big ratings.
Austin is responsible for shifting the momentum of ratings to WWE. He was responsible for people switching the chanells from wcw to wwe. He may not be the only face of attitude era but he damn sure started it. The era that not only made wwe succesful but also made wwe victorious in rating wars.
So at the end of the day it's like, who is more important?...the man who started revolution or the man who carried it? In this case austin not only started the revolution but also carried it for some time. In short he saved Mcmahon and wwe. And that's why austin is more important for WWE.
I don't know why austin fans are embarrased to accpet the fact that rock was lil bit more popular that him, as I am a rock fan and im not embarassed to accept the fact that no matter what happens, for wwe austin will always be #1 and rocky #2.

 

[justinept]

I really hate this argument about who was better than who. Honestly, their career vectors were different. Stone Cold came in as the beer drinking, anti-authoritative redneck who cussed and beat us his boss regularly. This was revolutionary in wrestling. The Rock came in as the blue-chip pretty boy smiling all the time. The reactions he got as the blue chipper led to the Rock persona in the first place. Who had the better character?

Merchandise-Why did Austin sell more merchandise—because until now, heels didn’t sell merchandise well. From 1997-2002, Austin spent the majority of that time as a face. 1997-2002, the Rock was as a (the) top heel for 2 years in comparison to Austin’s 6-8 months during the same period of time…Do the math…

Titles—This is a terrible litmus honestly. How many entertaining feuds did Austin carry without being involved in the title picture--one—his feud with Bret Hart/Foundation in 1997. You can throw out the McMahon feud because that was to prevent him from becoming champion. Austin always main evented because he drew and because he couldn’t maintain a worthwhile midcard feud. If you are an honest fan, you will recognize my point; he did not put young guys over. He left in 2002 for what reason? The Rock was more willing to lose. He lost to D-Lo Brown on PPV folks! Austin wouldn’t even wrestle the Next Big Thing!

Both men loved the business no doubt and people forget that both left for personal reasons. The Rock grew up in wrestling; can you honestly blame him for wanting to do something different? Austin left because he didn’t want to wrestle Eddie Guerrero/Brock Lesnar in 2002 and because he didn’t want to lose to the Coach in 2005(?). Even as an Austin fan, I recognize he desire to do what was best for the business but frequently when it was in line with his best interest. When in comparing the two stars, look at the argument objectively.

Worst. Argument. Ever.

Heels merch didn't sell until recently? WRONG.

I won't go way back in time to dispute this point, but EVERYONE owned an NWO shirt ... and Austin's 3:16 shirt was originally released when he was a frickin heel, and it sold like crazy.

The real reason Austin almost always went over The Rock was because of the age. Austin had been around for years before he truly hit it big, and he was quite banged up during his glory years (knees, neck). The WWE knew they had only so much time to capitalize on Austin ... and they thought that once Austin was gone, they could focus on The Rock. It didn't work out that way - but I promise you, that was the plan.

 

[d_henderson1810]

Absolutley not.
Both of these guys were major draws during the attitude era, and BOTH got monster ovations any where they wrestled at.
But by looking at your numbers,it does seem pretty one sided, but hey, that's how a buisness sometimes goes.
There is NO DOUBT thàt The Rock is one of the best to ever lace 'em up and cut some of the best promos in the WWE. But Austin cut some of the best as well.
never really went furter into it than Austin was just a better draw at the time but, maybe vince knew Rock didn't want to be "the rock" forever and go do movies, maybe that's why he was looked over on occasion.
Idk I'm just makin excuses. I'm a HUGE Austin mark, and always like waching him more than rock. There's just something about a guy, that when he starts kickin ass and drinkin a beer (or 4 or 5) he is Golden to watch.
So all in all, I can't go into all the PPVs won and lost or who jobbed to who, but the fact of the matter is that he WAS NOT IMO considered inferior.
Rock put asses in the seat and every knew that, but sometimes that's just the way the cookie crumbles. Who knows, maybe rock was a complete asshole in the back and said the wrong thing once or twice as I see that to ve the ONLY reason, he would be even conidered "inferior" by any standard.
Rock's work ethic was sick, always preformed great, always had us laughing and always put on a great match. But Austin was vince's "baby" just like Cena is now, and that's why IMO he got me straps and went over more often. Vince Knew what he had in both men and played the chess game beautifuly! IMO

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

I think that if the Rock had stayed in wrestling, he may have eventually become bigger than "Stone Cold" (since he started younger, and may have been around longer).

I think there are two reasons Austin surpassed the Rock. One was that Austin was in the biggest storyline in years (his feud with Mr McMahon) which won the ratings over WCW. The Rock garnered viewers, but the "Attitude" storyline finally turned the ratings in the WWE's favour, and won them the "Monday Night Wars".

The other is that the Rock seemed like a company guy, and would "do the job" when asked, while Austin was a politician. Say what you like about Triple H, politicking, Austin could do it with the best of them. So, Austin refused to put the Rock over (for example, handing the IC Title to the Rock the night after the "DeGeneration X" PPV in '97, rather than see the lights for him). So maybe the WWE was forced to make Austin look more prominent, or he may have walked out even more often then he did. Whereas, because the Rock was more about putting guys over, they had him job to Chris Jericho three times during their feud, and he jobbed to Mankind, Austin, Triple H and anyone he was asked to. So, Austin's politicking may have got him the more favourable position, as the WWE didn't want to lose him.

 

[Big Nick Dudley]

I really do believe the WWF saw Rock as inferior to Austin. But I don't think it was for some terrible reason that Vince cooked up out of nowhere. Austin WAS the Attitude Era. He was the start of it. Sure, the WWF began booking more edgy, unruly characters, but it was all about him.

The Rock was great. I have always liked him...just a little bit less than Austin. Austin was real. Austin was the most real character they had between 1997 and 2001. He was the anti-Hogan. He was just a mean, realistic guy. He didn't wear bright colors and he wasn't flashy. He drank beer and hated his boss. And people loved him for it. I have been to many live shows in my life, and I have yet to hear anyone get the pops Austin did. Rock was damn close, but I always gave the edge to Austin in who the fans really loved.

Rock was a little more of a cartoon, especially earlier on in his Rock gimmick. With the Nation, he was very animated, and that stuck with him throughout. Was that a bad thing? Hell no. He was one hell of an entertaining character. But it always seemed like HE was chasing Austin, not the other way around. Austin's popularity was based on him relating to people. The Rock had a larger-than-life persona. He was arrogant. He was cocky. He wasn't really "one of us."

Austin was just a regular guy with an exceptional gift of charisma. The Rock was the same way. But The Rock always had a more manufactured brand of charisma, as where Austin was just more natural. I think Vince liked that...for that era.

 

[reddevil69]

KB, I've seen you say this sort of thing a couple of times throughout your posts, specifically your PPV reviews, and its bothered me every time. Like many others have stated, Rock was getting well over on his own way before he and Austin ever started their major feud, from late '98-'99.

But, let's assume that what you are saying is correct. Let's say that Rock would be nowhere as big as he is now without the help of Austin. To that I say....um, so? In pro wrestling, its all about getting the rub. Austin may have given the rub to Rocky, but guess what? Austin got the rub from Bret Hart and HBK. Its the same damn thing, man. No matter the means, Rock DID become just as big or almost so as Steve Austin. Even if Austin was partly responsible for getting Rock over, it doesn't matter: Rock STILL got over, and he got himself up into the same upper-tier as Stone Cold.

KB, you mentioned also that Rock would not be nearly as big as he got if not for Stone Cold taking that year off in 2000. Perhaps that it is true, perhaps it is not; its an argument for a different day. But it goes with what I said before: SO WHAT? Maybe Rock wouldn't have gotten so big if not for Austin's year off, but the point is that HE DID. Rock DID get much bigger, no matter how it happened, and he carried the WWF through 2000, which was the WWF's most financially successful year, by the way (up until that point, at least).

So, KB; the point I am trying to make is that whether you are right or wrong about Steve Austin helping Rock out, it doesn't matter. Rock got over, and he got over huge. The same could be said for Stone Cold; if not for his match with Bret Hart at WrestleMania 13, Steve Austin would not be as big as he is today. That's the same argument that you are trying to make and its just dumb because it does not matter how a wrestler gets over; he either gets over or he doesn't, and both Stone Cold AND The Rock got over.

For you to say that The Rock is WAY behind Steve Austin, is just ridiculous. I will agree with you that Stone Cold is just slightly above Then Rock; but not by much, man. In the same way that you say that Rock would not be as over if not for Stone Cold's year off, I could say that The Rock WOULD be much bigger than Steve Austin had he not taken off for Hollywood. I mean, its the same damn principle.

KB, I respect you as a poster man, but I just cannot accept what you say about The Rock. No matter the method, he got over, and he got over more than anyone else in the history of the WWF, beside Stone Cold and Hulk Hogan.

In all honesty, in my opinion, Hulk, Austin, and Rock are in the exact same class. Rock is either right at or RIGHT below the other two's level. That's pretty much a fact; people consider Steve Austin and Hogan so grea because of their effect on the ratings, tickets, merchandise, etc. Rock was right there with em, man. Steve Austin may have been responsible for the Attitude Era, but Rock is the one who helped carry it. You always bring up Stone Cold's year off, well guess who carried the WWF through that time? The Rock. With the same or higher ratings.

Perhaps its time you rethink.

Yes Rock got over, but in 2002 the fans turned on the Rock and started to boo him because they were tired of his schtick and they rallied behind Hogan when they had their program. The company had no choice but to change gears with Rocks direction because the fans were not buying into him any longer. Now that he's been gone for 6 years of course everyone is missing him and wants him back.

The fans never turned on Austin ever, he never fell out of favor.Even when he turned heel on Rock and aligned himself with McMahon, the fans still did not want to boo him. His shirts still sold like hotcakes and he was eventually turned back into a face, much like the Undertaker's final heel run in 2002. It lasted 6 months because people refuse to not like the guy.

If Hogan faced Austin at Mania I don't think the fans would have turned like they did against the Rock.

 

[jdog]

To me the three most famous wrestlers since it went national in 1984 is hogan, austin and rock. To me there have been a lot of bias comments here on stone cold's part. To me austin was in his prime from 97-01 and rock from 98-02 but thats not saying that austin wasnt big in 02, its just that, thats when the brand extension era started and new wrestlers and ones like hhh were finally given the top job.

Now austin from wrestlemania 13 to mid 1999 was the biggest superstar, but during august 97 to august 98, rock was the heel and even got worst reactions then vince when they were shouting rocky sucks and die rocky die. I honestly dont consider the rock a heel from november 98 to april 99 because the crowd really didnt wanna boo him and he was pretty much cheered for, even against austin at wm 15 and backlash 99. To me from mid 99 to november 99, rock and austin were equal in terms of popularity and if you dont believe this, then between august and december 99, rock was doing tag teams with mankind and was still getting pops as loud as austins and was still as popular. Then at the end of 99, PWI votes austin wrestler of the year and rock most popular wrestler of the year.

In 99 and 00 the ratings were around the same. In 2000, with no austin, rock was getting between 6.0 - 8.0 ratings, if austin was more popular then why didnt the ratings drop?, the ratings dropped between april-july 01 when rock left for hollywood. The ratings didnt drop because rock got bigger tv ratings, he did it in 2000 and got the highest ever raw rating in october 99 an 8.4 rating.

Austin in his best year in 98 got an average of a 5.0 rating, that was nothing close to rock's in his best year. I wont argue that austin sold more merchandise but rock got bigger tv ratings, and if you disagree give me damn good evidence. Do you reckon Triple H could have carried the business like the rock in 2000, hhh was main eventing as much as rock in that year but no chance was he drawing like rock.

At the end of 2000, rock got most popular wrestler of the year by PWI and best box office draw from Dave Meltzer. In 2001 and 02, they were equal to me but rock was doing what austin was doing in 98-99 in the sense that it was now him on the posters and video games. I mean rock had his own show smackdown and had his own PPV rock bottom.

To me austin was bigger from 97 to mid 99, they were equal from mid 99 to november 99. The rock was bigger from november 99, till austin came back and then they were equal and if anything rock was bigger, I mean if at that time austin was bigger than why wasnt it him vs hogan not rock, it is only a rumor that they were gonna make it austin vs hogan there is no proof of it. To me austin was the one that started the war to win for wwf but the rock ended it in 2000, when the wwf really killed wcw although they werent bought until 2001.

Arguments can be made but the truth is they are equal, and even though austin might be more important, it is very very very very very very very close.

The reason why wwe says austin is bigger is because he still has an excellent relationship with them while rock doesnt. Its like the same with bruno sammartino and the wwe. sammartino is probs the greatest ever world champion let alone wwe champion but his relationship with the wwe is shit, so wwe says that hogan is the greatest ever wwe champion.

 

[Chrome]

Well to me... Wrestling is made up of fractions much like TV shows are..

Example.. TV shows love numbers and take what age group, sex, etc of people like a certain character and try to have a good mix of all, to make a successfull TV show. (Examples like the TV show Friends had a good mix of these things)

Vince is the same way (you can probably see it more now in the PG era)

The Rock attracted women, young kids, and male audiance of 18-39.

Stone Cold was more over with males 18-39 (much like the rock)

DX and The Rock were more over with Comedy. (Austin was hit and miss)

BOTH Austin and Rock could sell anything..

I think the arguement of Rock not selling cause he was a heel.. "could have "some minor" merit.." but then again.. look at the NWO and DX merchindise?

I don't think that Rock was inferior to Stone Cold.. I honestly think they were on the same level.. I also do NOT think that Vince gets enough credit..

If it was NOT for the Vince/Stone Cold fued then it would have never taken off.. that Fued lasted A LONG TIME.... where as, The Rocks fueds came and went.. I mean he went through everyone and never cared if he won or lost.

For this reason my edge goes to The Rock as his audiance appeal was more over than Stone Cold.. you can tell by there movies alone, by comparison.

In Wrestling however Stone Cold was the man.. but only because of the Vince/Stone Cold Fued. His prior fued with Bret Hart was good but who didn't Bret make look good?? It was Vince's storyline that put asses in the seats because EVERYONE wanted to see Vince get his ass handed to him..Regardless who was doing it.

I still think this is a moot discussion as I feel both brought a lot to the table and both were the reason (along with DX) as why WWF beat WCW.

Basically WWF was more diverse TV show back then, it had something for everyone.. Now its not the same way..

But to conclude what the OP said.. IMO The Rock was Superior than Stone Cold in the long run.. wanna know why?

Stone Cold is guest hosting in 2 weeks.. yet for the past 2-3 years on many other forums everyone wants to see the ROCK host, simply because he is the better "Entertainer" and doesn't have to wrestle to be so. The Rock was on Smackdown a few months back and the buzz was nuts on the internet.. But now.. Stone Cold is coming and where is the buzz???? its no where near how it was when the Rock was talking about guest hosting January 4th or when he appeared on Smackdown.

Stone Cold will do good at hosting.. but only if he is opposite Vince. That is when he was at his best and that is still the case. The Rock was more versitale.

Vince loves Versitale guys and knew the Rock would make anyone and not talk back. Vince knew secretly he was the main attraction (VKM) not Stone Cold and not the rock.. people wanted to see him get clobbered! lol it was brillant! Vince put over those two and made them.

In the long run though the Rock proved to be a shining star.. As years have went by and he has been a success outside of Wrestling. Stone Cold will always be remembered as a popular wrestler.. The Rock is going to be remembered.. as ....

The Great One!


IF YOU SMELLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL!!!!! What the ROCK!!!! issssss... Coookinggggg!!

 

[reddevil69]

Worst. Argument. Ever.

Heels merch didn't sell until recently? WRONG.

I won't go way back in time to dispute this point, but EVERYONE owned an NWO shirt ... and Austin's 3:16 shirt was originally released when he was a frickin heel, and it sold like crazy.

The real reason Austin almost always went over The Rock was because of the age. Austin had been around for years before he truly hit it big, and he was quite banged up during his glory years (knees, neck). The WWE knew they had only so much time to capitalize on Austin ... and they thought that once Austin was gone, they could focus on The Rock. It didn't work out that way - but I promise you, that was the plan.

Randy Savage was a heel for his first two years in WWF and his purple t-shirt was one of the top sellers. Look at the crowd in some of the old WWF footage and you'll see people wearing them. I personally can recall four different kids at my school that had one as well as myself. Savage's WWF action figure was in the top five sellers of all the WWF figures in 1986/87.

Austin was not the first heel to move merchandise, not by a longshot. Roddy Piper was the hottest heel ever in his prime in 1985/86 and his Hot Rod shirt was second in sales only to Hogan's.

 

[Donovan McNabb]

yes. and why not.

1. Austin was a bigger draw. Hell, austin at his peak was THE biggest draw ever, even more than Hulk Hogan. Vince Mcmahom and Dave Meltzer have both said this.

2. Austin was the main guy, rock played second fiddle (just like macho man to hogan).
Austin was Michael Jackson, Rock was Tito.

3. Austin got louder ovations, and the fans never turned on him. Rock has been booed quite a few times towards the end of his career. Austin even walked out on the company, came back at no way out, and got an ovation bigger than anything the rock had ever come close to getting.

 

[jdog]

If you ask me, its a complete insult to the rock to say that he was to stone cold what savage was to hogan. Thats complete bullshit. Firstly, savage wasnt even the second biggest in the hogan era. from 84-88, it was andre and from 89-92 it was warrior. Savage was the 3rd biggest in that era overall. he was to hogan what hhh was to rock/austin. Let me explain why, now when anyone thinks of the attitude era, they think of rock/austin, that i guarrantee, when anyone talks about the attitude era, they talk of rock/austin. When people talk of the 80's golden age, they talk of hogan and also even andre. rock was to austin what andre was to hogan, in other words, his equal. I bet if u ask vince if andre was as much of a draw as hogan he will say yes. rock could get tv ratings bigger than austin for example, the record 8.4 rating in 99. In rock's best year, (2000) rock got bigger ratings then austin's best year (1998) without austin, which was also part of the attitude era. I mean the average in 2000 was between a 6.0 to an 8.0 rating whilst austin was getting around a 5.0 with an occasional 6.0 rating. Merchandise, austin sold better. If you split the attitude era in half, from 97-99 overall austin was bigger although near the end of 99, rock was just as big and from 2000- early 02 rock was bigger. I mean when was savage ever the box office draw, in the 80's yes he was popular but rock could equal austin in drawing power, savage could never equal hogan.

 

[Carolina dude]

The Rock was MASSIVELY over before Austin left in late 1999.When Austin/Rock wrestled The New Age Outlaws in late 1999 Rock got all the chants.

Rock/Austin got equal pops in 1999 after Backlash when Rock turned face.Austin wasn't more over in terms of crowd reaction.Rock got face pops dissing Austin on the mic in Philly as a HEEL on Heat before Wrestlemania 15.

That's how popular he was getting.Just like in 1998 but then Rock turned back heel at Survivor Series.

Also Austin did get booed before.When Rock mentioned him on the mic in late 1999 some fans booed his name.Rock mentioned heel HHH too and he got no reaction.This is on youtube.Type in Smackdown Hotel and click "The Rock sings the SmackDown Hotel song".

NWO HBK in 2002 mentioned Austin on the mic after his walk out and fans booed Austin's name.It's a myth that Austin never got boos and Austin got cheered at Wrestlemania 17 cause it was in TEXAS.During the build up,the crowds got behind Rock big just like Austin.

Rock got booed against Hogan at Wrestlemania 18 cause of nostalgia.

It was Hogan's homecoming and he lost last time vs Warrior in Toronto.Plus Toronto has a history of cheering "cool heels".

Rock still got cheered when he did The People's Elbow and pinned Hogan.
Nobody mentions that.

And people always say "Austin wouldn't get booed against Hogan like
Rock did" but Scott Hall got some cheers against Austin at Wrestlemania
18 so it's not like Austin had everyone on his side that night.

Also I agree that Rock put more people over.He made Lesnar and put him
over clean at Summerslam.Angle and Jericho won their 1st World Titles from
Rock.HHH as a heel retained the WWF Title over Rock at Wrestlemania 16
just like in August 1999 on Smackdown.

Rock also gave rubs to Hurricane,Christian and Eugene.

Austin refused to put HHH over at Summerslam 1999,didn't wanna work
with Jarrett and walked out multiple times.But Austin gets a "pass" while
Rock gets called a "sell out" even though he's never denied his pro
wrestling past.

Austin even walked out on the company, came back at no way out, and got an ovation bigger than anything the rock had ever come close to getting.

Don't remember Rock's HUGE victory pop at Backlash 2000? or his HUGE pop on Raw the night after?

 

[jayteeERA]

The Rock was MASSIVELY over before Austin left in late 1999.When Austin/Rock wrestled The New Age Outlaws in late 1999 Rock got all the chants.

Rock/Austin got equal pops in 1999 after Backlash when Rock turned face.Austin wasn't more over in terms of crowd reaction.Rock got face pops dissing Austin on the mic in Philly as a HEEL on Heat before Wrestlemania 15.

That's how popular he was getting.Just like in 1998 but then Rock turned back heel at Survivor Series.

Also Austin did get booed before.When Rock mentioned him on the mic in late 1999 some fans booed his name.Rock mentioned heel HHH too and he got no reaction.This is on youtube.Type in Smackdown Hotel and click "The Rock sings the SmackDown Hotel song".

NWO HBK in 2002 mentioned Austin on the mic after his walk out and fans booed Austin's name.It's a myth that Austin never got boos and Austin got cheered at Wrestlemania 17 cause it was in TEXAS.During the build up,the crowds got behind Rock big just like Austin.

Rock got booed against Hogan at Wrestlemania 18 cause of nostalgia.

It was Hogan's homecoming and he lost last time vs Warrior in Toronto.Plus Toronto has a history of cheering "cool heels".

Rock still got cheered when he did The People's Elbow and pinned Hogan.
Nobody mentions that.

And people always say "Austin wouldn't get booed against Hogan like
Rock did" but Scott Hall got some cheers against Austin at Wrestlemania
18 so it's not like Austin had everyone on his side that night.

Also I agree that Rock put more people over.He made Lesnar and put him
over clean at Summerslam.Angle and Jericho won their 1st World Titles from
Rock.HHH as a heel retained the WWF Title over Rock at Wrestlemania 16
just like in August 1999 on Smackdown.

Rock also gave rubs to Hurricane,Christian and Eugene.

Austin refused to put HHH over at Summerslam 1999,didn't wanna work
with Jarrett and walked out multiple times.But Austin gets a "pass" while
Rock gets called a "sell out" even though he's never denied his pro
wrestling past.



Don't remember Rock's HUGE victory pop at Backlash 2000? or his HUGE pop on Raw the night after?

So i guess all this stuff you wrote. You are still sayin Rock is inferior to Austin. Ok lets go back to the beginnig of 1998 to wrestlemania 19(2003). Who the fans loved the most? It was Austin. Who had the biggest pops? Austin again. Now who had the ppl laughing? I'll give it to the Rock. Who have the best promos? Rock again. Best matches? Austin. So who was the best out of the two? Austin!

I m confused about HBK & The Rock calls out Austin name and the fans booed?? OK at look on you tube fans were booing when rock said austin name. But they would of went crazy if Austin came down and confronted the rock. And nobody still haven't explain if Rock and Austin both left in 2002. Both return back in 2003. Well how Rock come back and gets booed and Austin comes back and gets cheered.

Lets face it the attitude ERA was Austin. The Rock was just in the passenger seat, while Austin was driving it. You see right there is why Austin gets the pass after he left in 2002.

It took Austin to come and save Rock at Backlash 2000. Don't forget that.

 

[Carolina dude]

So i guess all this stuff you wrote. You are still sayin Rock is inferior to Austin. Ok lets go back to the beginnig of 1998 to wrestlemania 19(2003). Who the fans loved the most? It was Austin. Who had the biggest pops? Austin again. Now who had the ppl laughing? I'll give it to the Rock. Who have the best promos? Rock again. Best matches? Austin. So who was the best out of the two? Austin!

I m confused about HBK & The Rock calls out Austin name and the fans booed?? OK at look on you tube fans were booing when rock said austin name. But they would of went crazy if Austin came down and confronted the rock. And nobody still haven't explain if Rock and Austin both left in 2002. Both return back in 2003. Well how Rock come back and gets booed and Austin comes back and gets cheered.

Lets face it the attitude ERA was Austin. The Rock was just in the passenger seat, while Austin was driving it. You see right there is why Austin gets the pass after he left in 2002.

It took Austin to come and save Rock at Backlash 2000. Don't forget that.

I'm not saying Rock is "inferior" because that's absurd.Rock conquered pro
wrestling and now has success out of it.He was WWF Champion two years
into the business and by 1999 had the crowds in the palm of his hands at
times bigger than Austin.That's greatness.Not inferiority.

Rock was HEEL at the beginning of 1998 so of course fans loved Austin more
but by 1999 that changed.Rock had reactions parallel to Austin and on some
shows it was bigger.You can deny it but it's the truth.

Rock got booed and cheered when he returned.He turned heel for the Hogan
feud.

Smackdown video games had Rock's catchphrases on it.
Ratings stayed consistent in 2000 without Austin being active the full year.
Foley and Rock elevated heel HHH.

Austin was the man in 1998 and part of 1999 but then Rock got bigger and
bigger after that.

And pro wrestling is scripted.Don't forget.

 

[Why Always Me]

Well I didn't expect this thread to become so popular, especially with the amount of threads relating to who is bigger/better/more popular etc.....

The way I see it is as follows.

WM14 to just after Summerslam 98 - Austin is the man

Breakdown to Survivor Series 98 - Austin still the man, but in 2 short months The Rock is just behind him in terms of popularity

Survivor Series to the Raw after Backlash - Obviously Austin is the more popular, but The Rock grows to become a huge superstar

Raw after Backlash to Survivor Series 99 - The WWF portrays Austin as the man, but The Rock is just as popular, maybe even more so

Survivor Series 99 to Unforgiven 2000 - The Rock takes the WWF to new heights (although Triple H certainly helped too) and became the main focal point of the company

Unforgiven 2000 to WM17 - More interaction between the two than before, the two probably neck and neck

I wish that the WWF had the two feuded over the summer and autumn of 1999, when they were both red hot, that would of been the best time to see them head to head and see who was the most popular, WM17 isn't a fair comparison, the lead up to Mania saw the fans split 50/50, but Mania was in Texas, not fair to say Austin is more popular based on that.

Just my thoughts, hopefully more people will add their opinions.

 

[jayteeERA]

I'm not saying Rock is "inferior" because that's absurd.Rock conquered pro
wrestling and now has success out of it.He was WWF Champion two years
into the business and by 1999 had the crowds in the palm of his hands at
times bigger than Austin.That's greatness.Not inferiority..

What! Rock reaction was more louder than Austin? You joking right? Austin had the crowd going crazy loud when his music hit. Rock had them loud too but not like Austin. In late 1999 to 2002 yeah Rock had some loud noise. But Austin had crazy mad loud noise from late 1997 to 2003.

Rock was HEEL at the beginning of 1998 so of course fans loved Austin more
but by 1999 that changed.Rock had reactions parallel to Austin and on some
shows it was bigger.You can deny it but it's the truth..

Only reaction Rock can get when the crowd reaction was more louder was during his promo's when he is joking around. The Rock needed alot of catchphrases. Austin didn't have too many. But if you wanna talk entrance music and matches it would go to Austin. Well in the matches it was sometimes Rock. He needed to take ppl finishers and do a whole lot of flashy moves.

Rock got booed and cheered when he returned.He turned heel for the Hogan
feud..

He turn heel cause ppl was already booing him. They were booing him at Summerslam in his last match b4 he left.

Smackdown video games had Rock's catchphrases on it.
Ratings stayed consistent in 2000 without Austin being active the full year.
Foley and Rock elevated heel HHH..

Yes you are correct. But it took Austin to leave so The Rock can carry the ball

Austin was the man in 1998 and part of 1999 but then Rock got bigger and
bigger after that..

But still fans love Austin more. Fans respected Austin more. Rock got booed out the building when he faced Lesnar a heel Lesnar at that. To me Rock character made him seems like he wanted to be like stone cold. If stone cold faced Lesnar i dont think they will boo Austin.

And pro wrestling is scripted.Don't forget.

Oh yea i forgot,

 

[Carolina dude]

Smarky fans booed Rock because he was leaving.

It's the same reason Lesnar and Goldberg got booed in New York two years later except Rock returned and wasn't leaving for good.Rock got chants in that match too.

Well I didn't expect this thread to become so popular, especially with the amount of threads relating to who is bigger/better/more popular etc.....

The way I see it is as follows.

WM14 to just after Summerslam 98 - Austin is the man

Breakdown to Survivor Series 98 - Austin still the man, but in 2 short months The Rock is just behind him in terms of popularity

Survivor Series to the Raw after Backlash - Obviously Austin is the more popular, but The Rock grows to become a huge superstar

Raw after Backlash to Survivor Series 99 - The WWF portrays Austin as the man, but The Rock is just as popular, maybe even more so

Survivor Series 99 to Unforgiven 2000 - The Rock takes the WWF to new heights (although Triple H certainly helped too) and became the main focal point of the company

Unforgiven 2000 to WM17 - More interaction between the two than before, the two probably neck and neck

I wish that the WWF had the two feuded over the summer and autumn of 1999, when they were both red hot, that would of been the best time to see them head to head and see who was the most popular, WM17 isn't a fair comparison, the lead up to Mania saw the fans split 50/50, but Mania was in Texas, not fair to say Austin is more popular based on that.

Just my thoughts, hopefully more people will add their opinions.

I agree.

 

[reddevil69]

To me the three most famous wrestlers since it went national in 1984 is hogan, austin and rock. To me there have been a lot of bias comments here on stone cold's part. To me austin was in his prime from 97-01 and rock from 98-02 but thats not saying that austin wasnt big in 02, its just that, thats when the brand extension era started and new wrestlers and ones like hhh were finally given the top job.

Now austin from wrestlemania 13 to mid 1999 was the biggest superstar, but during august 97 to august 98, rock was the heel and even got worst reactions then vince when they were shouting rocky sucks and die rocky die. I honestly dont consider the rock a heel from november 98 to april 99 because the crowd really didnt wanna boo him and he was pretty much cheered for, even against austin at wm 15 and backlash 99. To me from mid 99 to november 99, rock and austin were equal in terms of popularity and if you dont believe this, then between august and december 99, rock was doing tag teams with mankind and was still getting pops as loud as austins and was still as popular. Then at the end of 99, PWI votes austin wrestler of the year and rock most popular wrestler of the year.

In 99 and 00 the ratings were around the same. In 2000, with no austin, rock was getting between 6.0 - 8.0 ratings, if austin was more popular then why didnt the ratings drop?, the ratings dropped between april-july 01 when rock left for hollywood. The ratings didnt drop because rock got bigger tv ratings, he did it in 2000 and got the highest ever raw rating in october 99 an 8.4 rating.

Austin in his best year in 98 got an average of a 5.0 rating, that was nothing close to rock's in his best year. I wont argue that austin sold more merchandise but rock got bigger tv ratings, and if you disagree give me damn good evidence. Do you reckon Triple H could have carried the business like the rock in 2000, hhh was main eventing as much as rock in that year but no chance was he drawing like rock.

At the end of 2000, rock got most popular wrestler of the year by PWI and best box office draw from Dave Meltzer. In 2001 and 02, they were equal to me but rock was doing what austin was doing in 98-99 in the sense that it was now him on the posters and video games. I mean rock had his own show smackdown and had his own PPV rock bottom.

To me austin was bigger from 97 to mid 99, they were equal from mid 99 to november 99. The rock was bigger from november 99, till austin came back and then they were equal and if anything rock was bigger, I mean if at that time austin was bigger than why wasnt it him vs hogan not rock, it is only a rumor that they were gonna make it austin vs hogan there is no proof of it. To me austin was the one that started the war to win for wwf but the rock ended it in 2000, when the wwf really killed wcw although they werent bought until 2001.

Arguments can be made but the truth is they are equal, and even though austin might be more important, it is very very very very very very very close.

The reason why wwe says austin is bigger is because he still has an excellent relationship with them while rock doesnt. Its like the same with bruno sammartino and the wwe. sammartino is probs the greatest ever world champion let alone wwe champion but his relationship with the wwe is shit, so wwe says that hogan is the greatest ever wwe champion.

TV ratings are one thing but Rock never drove ppv buy rates like Austin did. Vince McMahon was quoted as saying "Rock was never quite Stone Cold" for a reason. Austin made more money for the company than Rock did. Also, Rock had the high ratings in 2000 but that was because Stone cold led the charge and ushered in the boom for wrestling and those fans stuck around because they still enjoyed the product. Rock was over with them yes, but everyone knew it was a matter of time and Austin would be back.

And the single highest cable rating for a match ever was Austin vs. Taker for the WWF Title on RAW June 28 1999, it drew a 9.49 rating and a 17.1 share, 10,721,000 viewers.

as far as all these remarks about how Austin guest hosting or making an appearance doesn't bump ratings anymore all I can say is: no shit Sherlock.

The audience for wrestling now is half of what it was a decade ago, so do the math...if all of those people are not watching anymore that means they are not interested in the product, which means on Monday nights they are doing or watching something else. If I'm watching House or CSI how the hell am I gonna know that a wrestler that I once followed is going to be appearing on RAW next week if I can't see the announcement? WWE does not advertise on network TV so how is anyone going to be aware of Austin's appearance? If they're not following the product that means they are not going on internet sites either because they don't give a shit anymore so of course the millions of Austin fans that followed him five to ten years ago are not going tune in and spike ratings because they have no idea it's happening...it has nothing at all to do with Austin's popularity not being what it was.

If he was going to be on regularly and they were able to do something groundbreaking with his character, word would spread, people that watch now would tell their friends who stopped watching that they should check it out and if it was done properly people would start to tune in again, just like they did in 1997 after the down cycle from 1993-1996...alot of people who stopped watching regularly started tuning in again and it was in large part because of the rise of Austin.

 

[jayteeERA]

Smarky fans booed Rock because he was leaving.

It's the same reason Lesnar and Goldberg got booed in New York two years later except Rock returned and wasn't leaving for good.Rock got chants in that match too.

Wait im not finish yet. Even some of the smarky fans respect Austin. Why nobody booed Austin when he return back in 03? Why they booed the Rock when he returned? Even though Austin left the fans cause he couldn't have his way and i'll admit it was messed up that he did that. But ppl just had so much respect for Austin and that part of Austin is apart of his character. Rock couldn't get away with the stuff Austin did.

 

[Chris-16]

TV ratings are one thing but Rock never drove ppv buy rates like Austin did. Vince McMahon was quoted as saying "Rock was never quite Stone Cold" for a reason. Austin made more money for the company than Rock did. Also, Rock had the high ratings in 2000 but that was because Stone cold led the charge and ushered in the boom for wrestling and those fans stuck around because they still enjoyed the product. Rock was over with them yes, but everyone knew it was a matter of time and Austin would be back.

Once again you are being blind. The only true main eventers in 2000 after Foley "retired" earlier in the year were Rock and HHH, take Rock out and you better be sure those ratings from 2000 would've gone some notches. Undertaker returned in the middle of the year and he wasn't main eventing much (most of the main events he was in that year were tag matches and triple threats/fatal four ways, and the 6 man HIAC. Jericho and Angle were in the mid-card the majority of the year. Jericho's only main event program was with HHH for like a month and Angle only got pushed to the main event full time late in the year.

 

[reddevil69]

Once again you are being blind. The only true main eventers in 2000 after Foley "retired" earlier in the year were Rock and HHH, take Rock out and you better be sure those ratings from 2000 would've gone some notches. Undertaker returned in the middle of the year and he wasn't main eventing much (most of the main events he was in that year were tag matches and triple threats/fatal four ways, and the 6 man HIAC. Jericho and Angle were in the mid-card the majority of the year. Jericho's only main event program was with HHH for like a month and Angle only got pushed to the main event full time late in the year.

Still doesn't change the fact that Austin's buy rates and merchandise sales were higher than the Rock's. Austin drew more money than Rock and anyone else in the history of the business, period. He made Vince McMahon more money than anyone, and that includes Hogan, and Vince has confirmed that. I never said Rock wasn't a draw, and of course if he wasn't there in 2000 the numbers probably wouldn't have been what they were, I'm not disputing that. He just wasn't as big a draw as Austin.