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He's the biggest star int he biggest company while Danielson is the biggest star in an indy fed.
The biggest wrestler in the business since Austin/Rock, a man who is going to go down as an all time legend. Aguably the hottest thing going in the business today in John Cena vs some curtain jerker who if in the WWE would be there to carry Cena's bags from the arena to the airport. "The Champ" is gonna demolish him.
Cena has everything going for him as being the biggest star in the bigger promotion.
Cena is the top of the business right now, who even knows who Danielson is?
Who is the greatest wrestler in the world?
The guy who is number one in the number one company on earth, or the man who is number one of a company that is just in the top ten?
Being the top guy in the number 1 company is better than being top guy in a company who is the 3rd biggest atleast. Cena wins round 1. Danielson goes home here. Better luck next year.
Cena wins here. Sure Danielson is better on the mat, but Cena as many have said before me is the biggest star in the biggest company on earth. Cena will be one of the biggest legends of all time in a company that is number one on earth, while Danielson will only be the biggest star in a company that is at absolute most 3rd biggest.
Klunderbunker
CENAtion
Little Jerry Lawler
Mrs KB
TM
Ravishing Richard Rude
Fizzywink
Anyone aside from me notice the laughable pattern here? Getting on towards a dozen declarations of support for Cena, and thus far, almost nobody has managed to come up with a better reason that "He's a WWE main eventer".
Could somebody explain to me how exactly "being the biggest star in the biggest company" helps someone win a match? Especially given that we're not even in that company. My memory may be a little hazy from the previous tournament, but as I recall we didn't run it as the Wrestlezone 'who sells the most merchandise' tournament.
There are valid arguments for Cena to win here. He's bigger, stronger, and resistant to submissions. I'd argue that Danielson has considerably more experience against credible opponents of Cena's size than vice-versa.
However; if people are going to vote exclusively for the bigger name, and then justify it by saying "but he's a bigger name", then it pretty much takes away the entire point of this thing.
Danielson is quicker, more technically sound, more versatile, has intentional and independent experience. He has more ways to finish a match and can do things in the ring that (like it of not) John Cena can't. It might not be cool to preach about technical ability (flexing your biceps and telling cock jokes seems to be the in thing at the moment) but in a tournament based on kayfabe ability, I think it merits mentioning.
Of course there's a perfectly valid argument to be made for John Cena.
...
Somebody make it.
Gelgarin
The fact Danielson is 5'9" and under 200lbs, Cena can toss him around like a play thing. I'm not denying Danielson is a great wrestler, and can ground and pound Cena, put any hold he puts Cena in won't last. Danielson doesn't have anything that can put Cena away. Cena will have the crowd behind him too, as you said not many people watch ROH whilst everyone in a WWE arena knows Cena, and these days 95% love him. Cena hits the STF or Attitude Adjustment and it's over.
Okay.Of course there's a perfectly valid argument to be made for John Cena.
...
Somebody make it.
Brian Danielson has managed to have long and competitive matches with plenty of opponents bigger and more powerful than John Cena. Takeshi Morishima is 320lb, and a far more dangerous brawler than John Cena, and Danielson was able to have a perfectly competitive match with him without getting "tossed around like a play thing".
As for the arena, we're in WCW, a location where both man have never wrestled. That being said, I'll throw my money behind the man who's spent a lifetime appearing in different promotions under different circumstances, instead of the guy who's been safely contained inside the same umbrella organisation for most of his life.
Ah, I was mistaken with the arena, forgive me. Fair point but is Takeshi Morishima in the same league as Cena? I think not.
Maybe I was over the top with "tossed around like a play thing", it will be a long competitive match, but what can Danielson hit that will put Cena away? Danielson's submission will not work, Cena cannot be put away by submission. Cena can take beatings from the biggest, strongest wrestlers and still win. He can take everything from Danielson, and eventually will hit the Attitude Adjustment for the win. If yu can't put a wrestler away, you can not win a match.
It is a tough first round match for Cena, but he will progress.
If we're going with the "kayfabe" approach, then this is a no-brainer. Cena has already beaten Danielson in approximately 4 minutes, and did so before he was even HALF the worker that he is now. Since that match in 2003, we've seen Cena rise to the very top of the WWE, and put on some of the greatest matches, and overcome some of the greatest odds in years.
Cena beat Danielson in 2003, and has only gotten immensely better.
Now, if you want to go from a business model look, then Cena wins again. He's incredibly versatile when working with opponents (great matches against RVD, HBK, Lashley, Umaga, etc...that's a large variety of styles)
he's put on some of the best matches in the decades,
he plays a great character, and is so good that fans like him more than any other worker.
No matter HOW you slice this, Cena comes out the winner
So, basically, what you are saying is that the video pretty much KILLS your entire argument, as they have actually faced off once, and Cena won?Ahh Slyfox. And here I was thinking that you were going to take my side. (Go on, you played a big part in turning this forum into a Cena haven, £10 says you can't turn it back.)
I was hoping to draw somebody into a war of words, I'd forgotten about that bloody video. Anyhow, in a face saving attempt, I'll mention that Danielson gets far and away the majority of the offence there, so I don't think we can take it as an unshakable confirmation of this matches result.
Cena was actually much further along as a star than Danielson at this point. Cena was in the midst of his first main event push, whilst Danielson was still unknown to anybody not a die hard follower of the indy scene.
Since then both guys have moved forward a great deal, and since we have that lovely 'in their prime' defence clause, I'm going to lay that footage to rest.
You're one of the few. Hell, I remember Jim Ross the next night on Raw just singing its praises up and down all night long. That's the reason I wound up watching it in the first place.I thought his match with Lashley absolutely stunk
But not on the big shows. On Raw? Yes, just like everyone. On the PPV shows, he's money.Cena has also had his share of mediocre matches.
In contrast, with one recent example, I don't recall of a single match Danielson had in RoH that didn't blow the roof of the place
AAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAand the Ring of Honour crowd is considerably harder to please.
Performing bad matches with different opponents doesn't make you versatile, it makes you bad. Those matches I named were GOOD MATCHES. There's a difference.In terms of styles, Danielson's fought plenty of technicians, brawlers, powerhouses, heavyweights, cruiserweights and showmen. He's fought American style, and also held his own fighting puroresu. He's performed internationally for many different companies, and in terms of versatility, has John Cena banged to rights.
Then Cena wins this one in a walk, as there is NO ONE in wrestling who elicits as much response to his character in matches from as many fans as does Cena. No one.The only way to judge match quality is by the reaction of the crowd.
But, in professional wrestling, if we're not going by kayfabe standards, then how else do you measure the quality of a worker?As I recall, last year we used to stamp the words "not a popularity content" onto every poll.
So, basically, what you are saying is that the video pretty much KILLS your entire argument, as they have actually faced off once, and Cena won?
You're one of the few. Hell, I remember Jim Ross the next night on Raw just singing its praises up and down all night long. That's the reason I wound up watching it in the first place.
I haven't seen a Danielson match yet that DIDN'T suck. Hell, some of his most praised matches are terrible bouts. Take his match with Nigel from Unified. What a piss bucket match. Somewhere around these forums I did a big review of it and why it sucked. If you are really curious go find it. I've seen Danielson work with Morishima, Nigel, Spanky, and a couple others that I can't remember now. I've not ONCE seen a match that I thought was anything other than sub-part.
No offense, Gelgarin, but that's one of the silliest things I've ever read from you. ROH fans are sheep. They're going to blindly praise any match from one of their wrestling gods, regardless of the quality. ROh fans are simpletons. Do a couple unrealistic grapple exchanges, a couple high risk moves, and the ROH crowd loves you. Never mind whether or not your match incorporates anything in the way of logic or quality...those ROH fans are going to love you anyway.
Performing bad matches with different opponents doesn't make you versatile, it makes you bad. Those matches I named were GOOD MATCHES. There's a difference.
Then Cena wins this one in a walk, as there is NO ONE in wrestling who elicits as much response to his character in matches from as many fans as does Cena. No one.
Just because Danielson can make 200 pimply faced nerds who live in their mother's basement posting on chan boards ejaculate in their pants, doesn't make him a good worker. Put Danielson in front of 80,000 people like Cena has, and you'd hear crickets.
But, in professional wrestling, if we're not going by kayfabe standards, then how else do you measure the quality of a worker?
The whole point of wrestling is to entertain people to the point they are willing to fork over their hard earned dollars to watch you. Since Cena does that FAR better than Danielson, then Cena is the better worker.