WCW Boston: Round 1, Match 1: #4 John Cena vs. #61 Bryan Danielson

[NSL]

I'm going to go with Cena. I don't see any reason to go for Danielson, and the debate between Gelgarin and Sly, actually makes me want to agree with Sly.

Cena is a phenomenal wrestler, and has defeated much better men than Danielson has. I almost want to say this could be won with just the 5 Knuckle Shuffle, but we'll throw in an FU for good measure.

 

[Y 2 Jake]

I know for a fact that Brian Danielson knows every wrestling move ever invented. He also knows every counter. He's a ''technical'' wrestler. FU? Danielson will counter with some vicious elbows to the face. STFU? Danielson would do what other wrestlers, for some unknown reason do not, don't do. He's break out of it. How? you may well ask. Easy. He's simply put his hands through all that space that Cena leaves when he applies the STFU. Ever seen it? Of course you have .

See picture.

You just put your hand through the gap by the chin and break the hold. Of if he's applying it like he did on Batista he could put his hands anywhere he damn pleases.

Danielson has the Cattle Mutilation. I would never agrue that it's a great submission move. But it keeps people in their place. He puts it on, he keeps it on. And he would do till the end of time if needs be. The crowd would be fine with it. They're WCW fans. They've put up with 30 minute long Ric Flair Figure 4's.

Cena would submit. Not out of pain. But out of boredom. He's also got a PA, he can't be late.

 

[Hip2bsquare]

I was going to vote Cena over DDanielson here. Then I saw Slys argument with Gelgarin then I knew that Cena would have no trouble at all here with Danielson. No trouble whatsoever.

They have faced off once before and Cena got the win. Since then Cena has exploded to be the number one guy, in the number one company on the planet. Putting on great matches whith a whole host of opponents.

 

[Shocky]

John Cena, easily. I appreciate Bryan Danielson, and I enjoy what I've seen of his Ring of Honor work, but he's outmatched here. People are making out that John Cena is just a muscle bound guy that does power moves, when he has done exactly the opposite of that for the last couple years. He has proven he has stamina, and he has proven he can bust out technical wrestling when need be.

The Cattle Mutilation, drop John Cena? Laughable at best. Seriously, how in the hell would Danielson be able to apply that move to Cena to begin wiht. With that move applied, are you seriously suggesting that John Cena doesn't have the leg strength to simply stand up and drop Danielson on his head? You're talking about a man that can FU, Errr, Attitude Adjust the Big Show with relative ease, so how is a member of the barely 200 pound plus club going to be able to keep someone like Cena down?

 

[Y 2 Jake]

The Cattle Mutilation, drop John Cena?

Drop? Nope, Cena will be on the floor already.

Laughable at best. Seriously, how in the hell would Danielson be able to apply that move to Cena to begin wiht.

Like he ususally does.

With that move applied, are you seriously suggesting that John Cena doesn't have the leg strength to simply stand up and drop Danielson on his head?

Yes. Cena would be all confused. He's never been in the move before. Then it crosses his mind, ''wait, this wasn't in the bumper book of WWE approved moves''.

You're talking about a man that can FU, Errr, Attitude Adjust the Big Show with relative ease, so how is a member of the barely 200 pound plus club going to be able to keep someone like Cena down?

It's easier to pick up something that's standing. Just like it's easier to pick up a box that's stitting on a shelf as opposed to one that's on the floor. It's simple logic. I should know, I came up with it.

 

[FromTheSouth]

First of all, if Danielson were good enough to beat Cena, he would be in WWE. What is every wrestler's dream? Of course, it is to headline Wrestlemania. Everyone one of them. If he were good enough to do that, he would be in WWE. He would be beating down their doors.

Cena, on the other hand, headlines every Wrestlemania. He is the best in the business. He cannot be hurt long enough for Danielson to get one of his submission holds on him.

I don't care how much ROH marks like seeing three backflips and a donkey punch, but that shit impresses geeks, it doesn't injure John freaking Cena, and that sir, is why Cena wins in a two minute squash. Where's Barry Horowtiz when you need him?

 

[justinsayne]

First of all, if Danielson were good enough to beat Cena, he would be in WWE.

Seriously this argument is getting old and triesome, not to mention stupid, you are basically implying that the only wrestlers that could ever beat Cena are ones that are in WWE, do you see how fucking dumb that is!?

What is every wrestler's dream? Of course, it is to headline Wrestlemania. Everyone one of them. If he were good enough to do that, he would be in WWE. He would be beating down their doors.

Apparently not since Sting has never signed with WWE nor has any interested in ever signing with WWE, so that would lead on to beleive that he has little to no interest in headlining WM

Cena, on the other hand, headlines every Wrestlemania. He is the best in the business. He cannot be hurt long enough for Danielson to get one of his submission holds on him.

But he's only headlined 4 counting this coming one, 4 out of 25 is not every WM, and yes he can be hurt long enough, Danileson locks on a submission on Cenas neck and aggrevates that old injury he could put Cena out, also it's hard as hell to move if Danielson has you locked into Cattle Mutilation

I don't care how much ROH marks like seeing three backflips and a donkey punch, but that shit impresses geeks, it doesn't injure John freaking Cena, and that sir, is why Cena wins in a two minute squash. Where's Barry Horowtiz when you need him?

The irony here is that isn't Danielsons style at all, have you even watched the guy?

Seriously this should be the best debate in the tourny so far and the best the Chain Gang can do is, "Cena is in WWE and Danielson is in ROH so Cena is better and wins", WTF, surely there is someone who capable of a decent argument for Cena

 

[Thriller Ant]

Okay.

[youtube]nf-kiUcAdVI[/youtube]

This video shows you everything you need to see. Danielson gets some of his mat moves in here, but what happens after every one? Cena just overpowers him a different way each time. Technical ability may work against someone around your size or a super-heavyweight, but not a powerhouse like Cena who can literally throw you off of him every time you lock a move in. I'll say that Danielson lasts for 6 minutes this time before he gets his Attitude Adjusted, or he taps to the STF.

 

[Miko]

Danielson's technically sound, theres no arguing that. I wont let the fact that I find him boring hinder my argument. I'll just let the fact that technical wrestling hasnt helped anyone against John Cena, during his year long title run he's beaten Kurt Angle (people call him the greatest technical wrestler ever) and Chris Benoit. He made Benoit tap out to the STFU.

Seriously technical wrestling is no better then any other form of wrestling, it's just considered the most pure, Danielson goes for a submission but Cena just punches him in the mouth, add in the fact that there is very little the tiny in comparison Danielson could do that Cena couldnt power out of and I dont think he's got much of a chance against Cena.

 

[Cena's Little Helper]

I'm going to go with Danielson over Cena simply because I love The Cattle Mutilator. Also, everyone here should already know that I am more of a mark for wrestling that puts an emphasis on innovation and athleticism rather than entertainment. So, yeah, I'm more of a fan of wrestlers who rely on "flippys" to get themselves over. Moreover, this is in WCW rather than WWE. The last time I checked, WCW, even with Russo in charge, still put a lot of faith in their Cruiserweights. Had Danielson been around during the late 1990s, there's no doubt in my mind that this guy would have been just as popular as the likes of Eddie Guerrero, Chris Benoit, and Dean Malenko.

 

[Uncle Sam]

I'm going to go with Danielson over Cena simply because I love The Cattle Mutilator.

S'alright, I suppose.

So, yeah, I'm more of a fan of wrestlers who rely on "flippys" to get themselves over.

John Cena does more flippies than Danielson does.

Moreover, this is in WCW rather than WWE. The last time I checked, WCW, even with Russo in charge, still put a lot of faith in their Cruiserweights.

Not really. They definitely had a lot more faith in the likes of Golberg, Sting, Booker, Jarrett and Hogan than they did Mysterio, Jericho, Malenko, etc.

Had Danielson been around during the late 1990s, there's no doubt in my mind that this guy would have been just as popular as the likes of Eddie Guerrero, Chris Benoit, and Dean Malenko.

He wouldn't have had a chance of going over Cena's equivalents though, would he?

 

[Cena's Little Helper]

Not really. They definitely had a lot more faith in the likes of Golberg, Sting, Booker, Jarrett and Hogan than they did Mysterio, Jericho, Malenko, etc.

Yeah, they did. They kept cruiserweights and heavyweights separate for the most part. They even let the Cruiserweights have a go at the US Belt at times. Having faith in your Cruiserweights has nothing to do with giving them the World Heavyweight Championship. Having faith in them entails that you allow them to do their thing rather than use them as fodder for your super heavyweights and monster heels.

He wouldn't have had a chance of going over Cena's equivalents though, would he?

Who are Cena's equivalents? If you want to try and call me out, you're going to have to do better than this. I think you're the only one here who thinks glibness is witty.

 

[Bernkastel]

The kicker for this match is that's it's taking place in the WCW region. Now based now Cena's current success in the WWE, it could be guessed that Cena could have been a success in WCW as well, even during the Monday Night Wars era. I'm currently up in the air when it comes to Danielson. The man is regarded as the king of the Indy circuit, but I personally am untrusting of his ability to draw outside of the minor leagues, whether it be a major promotion in America, Japan, Mexico, whatever. The only major promotion I've ever heard Danielson draw for is ROH, which is a small achievement for someone that is claimed to be such a universal world draw.

I'd have to give this this match to Cena. If you were to put both Cena and Danielson into WCW say 10 - 15 years ago, I'd say Cena would have a much better chance of flourishing in the company than Danielson.

If this proposed match would be booked to take place in such a setting, I'd say Cena would be the one to get the win

 

[Cena's Little Helper]

The kicker for this match is that's it's taking place in the WCW region. Now based now Cena's current success in the WWE, it could be guessed that Cena could have been a success in WCW as well, even during the Monday Night Wars era. I'm currently up in the air when it comes to Danielson. The man is regarded as the king of the Indy circuit, but I personally am untrusting of his ability to draw outside of the minor leagues, whether it be a major promotion in America, Japan, Mexico, whatever. The only major promotion I've ever heard Danielson draw for is ROH, which is a small achievement for someone that is claimed to be such a universal world draw.

I'd have to give this this match to Cena. If you were to put both Cena and Danielson into WCW say 10 - 15 years ago, I'd say Cena would have a much better chance of flourishing in the company than Danielson.

If this proposed match would be booked to take place in such a setting, I'd say Cena would be the one to get the win

How is this exactly? 90% of the wrestlers that comprised WCW's roster during its ratings domination were either one of four things: WWF veterans, territory WCW veterans, foreign, or hot commodities from ECW. With the exception of Goldberg and DDP, WCW never really put much stock into the wrestlers they trained at the Power Plant, where Cena definitely would have come from should he have been in WCW.

On the other hand, Danielson, at this time, would have been huge in ECW. And, WCW would have picked him up from there in a heartbeat, just like they picked up the likes of Jericho and Mysterio, Jr., who definitely had much more illustrious careers in WCW than the likes of Sean O'Haire and Mark Jindrak.

 

[Bernkastel]

How is this exactly? 90% of the wrestlers that comprised WCW's roster during its ratings domination were either one of four things: WWF veterans, territory WCW veterans, foreign, or hot commodities from ECW. With the exception of Goldberg and DDP, WCW never really put much stock into the wrestlers they trained at the Power Plant, where Cena definitely would have come from should he have been in WCW.

On the other hand, Danielson, at this time, would have been huge in ECW. And, WCW would have picked him up from there in a heartbeat, just like they picked up the likes of Jericho and Mysterio, Jr., who definitely had much more illustrious careers in WCW than the likes of Sean O'Haire and Mark Jindrak.

Interesting... I seem to remember Jericho and Mysterio leaving the the company because they were unhappy with it. Cena has a natural talent, WCW would give him his shot and he'd run with it and succeed, just like he's done in the WWE. Now, Cena probably wouldn't be the top dog, he would probably do well to keep a handlehold on a main event spot, but I'd could easily see him as an upper mid carder participating in main event. Danielson on the other hand, I couldn't ever see him ever rising past the mid card. He lacks in too many departments for his athleticism to make up for it. Danielson doesn't have much of a look, doesn't have much of a personality, and can't perform to the ability that Cena is capable of. Because of that, I'd see Cena going much further in WCW than Danielson.

 

[Theo Mays]

While Cena may not be liked by most and I am in no part a fan of Cena. I don't hate the dude, but I can do without him. But the fact that John Cena is the face of the WWE and the best entertainer they have puts him in the driver seat for this match. Danielson can scrap with the best, but Cena is too powerful for Danielson to overcome. Danielson will get his shots in early, but Cena makes the essential comeback and ends it rather early.

 

[Ronin]

Cena will overcome the smaller opponent. Danielson has an impressive array of moves while Cena has a limited set, but in that limited set, there are some real heavy hitters. Cena gets hit hard and fast at the start, but bides his time, gets an opportunity, hits the Attitude Adjuster and walks away with the win.

 

[Father:_Polley]

Gonna just throw it out there. Yes, Danielson is talented, he knows how to entertain in the ring and deserves probably a little more credit than he gets...

BUT

Playing by the rules, it's Boston, crowd advantage goes to the WWE man. Cena also has the ability to get the crowd behind him when he needs it. To me, and I'm basing this off what I've seen, Danielson is good at the same, but less talented on the mic.
Weight, power and endurance have to follow suit. Danielson is athletic, but he doesn't match up with the brute force of Cena.
Athleticism - Cena is fast, but I'd give Danielson the edge on this aspect of his game.
Acheivements - This is where the crickets come out for Danielson fans i'm afraid. Yes, he's a big guy in the indies... that's like saying my clown loach is the bestest because it's bigger than the fish in my tank. End of the day, big fish in a big pond is better than the little pond.

Cena takes it.

 

[Cena's Little Helper]

Interesting... I seem to remember Jericho and Mysterio leaving the the company because they were unhappy with it.

From Chris Jericho's biography, A Lion's Tale: Around The World In Spandex:

Even though Paul couldn't pay a king's ransom, that $25 bonus might as well have been $5,000. It was a motivational tool that boosted my morale and made me proud to be a part of the company. Paul was notorious for bouncing checks, but I can honestly say that I had no problem cashing a check from Paul E. I also had pictures of him fornicating with a walrus, but that's a different story (Page 294).

***​

After my last match in ECW against Too Cold Scorpio, the crowd in the Arena started chanting "Please don't go." I'd been spared the "You sold out," chants because I think people were genuinely saddened at my departure. I know I was.

I had a tear in my eye as I grabbed the mike and cut an emotional promo praising the Arena, ECW, and all its fans. It was a genuinely bittersweet moment. If I could've stayed there forever and made good money in the process, I would've seriously considered it (Page 307).

How do you get that Jericho was unhappy with the company? I'll make sure to ask you the same question again when Mysterio, Jr.'s biography drops this later this year.

Cena has a natural talent, WCW would give him his shot and he'd run with it and succeed, just like he's done in the WWE. Now, Cena probably wouldn't be the top dog, he would probably do well to keep a handlehold on a main event spot, but I'd could easily see him as an upper mid carder participating in main event. Danielson on the other hand, I couldn't ever see him ever rising past the mid card. He lacks in too many departments for his athleticism to make up for it. Danielson doesn't have much of a look, doesn't have much of a personality, and can't perform to the ability that Cena is capable of. Because of that, I'd see Cena going much further in WCW than Danielson.

I think it's safe to say that WCW definitely valued in-ring talent much more than WWE does. Furthermore, I think the healthy cruiserweight division they maintained lends credence to my belief.

As much shit as I will get for saying this, I will go ahead and do so: in terms of in-ring work and looks, Cena doesn't bring much to the table. Three things account for Cena's success: Cena's work ethic, Cena's passion for the business, and the knack WWE has for public relations and marketing. WWE gave Cena a great opportunity, and he gladly and emphatically took it on. And, more power to him; it is great to know that someone with his virtues succeeded.

However, Cena being in WCW would have been a whole different story. I honestly believe that he would have been nothing more than a Scotty Riggs or, at best, a third member of Vicious And Delicious. There was just way too much for him to compete with there, whether it be proven WWF and territory veterans or innovative cruiserweights.

On the other hand, Danielson would have held his own with the likes of Malenko, Benoit, Jericho, and Mysterio, Jr. Furthermore, given the awe that his moves inspire today, they would have been even more impressive in WCW.

 

[Leeds Guy]

Cena wins here, he may be in for a fight but he will walk away victorious. Danielson's alright but he just got a tough round 1 opponent. Cena wins with the AA

 

[gd]

To Cena's surprise, he will be in for a fight, but his strength will prove too much in the end and the Champ advances.

 

[OIL]

Cena wins this and it's not close. Not at all. Cena has done so much more than Danielson in this industry that the match is quite laughable. Cena crushes him in every aspect. He's done more for the industry than Danielson too. He's the biggest superstar in the WWE now, and Danielson can't compete with that at all. He doesn't even come in close.

 

[Rusty]

Humiliation is the only way to describe this match. Now I don't watch or read up on ROH. If Danielson was that damn good, wouldn't he be in the WWE already? Meanwhile while he's been running around wrestling nobodies in indy feds, John Cena has been the biggest star in the biggest company. He's beaten basically everyone except the Undertaker, and that's only because he hasn't faced him yet in his prime.

WCW was a much bigger company than ROH. Danielson isn't used to the spotlight as hasn't beaten anybody in the WWE, the current biggest wrestling promotion. So there's no way in the world John Cena can lose this match. Only ROH marks would think otherwise. 3 minute squash.

 

[RVDgurl]

I am honestly shocked, but pleasantly surprised to see that at this point 9 other people have voted for my beloved Dragon (who's name is spelled wrong here- it breaks my heart). I am well aware that John Cena will win this match. Although I must say that it's ironic that a year ago at this time Slyfox was basically the only person here that thought Cena even deserved to live.

My vote for Bryan Danielson is not meant to take anything away from John Cena. I don't hate him and I don't think he's a terrible wrestler. I simply prefer Bryan Danielson. I like submission holds and the technical aspects of a match; both of which Danielson delivers in each and every match. As I've stated many times before, The American Dragon is by far my favorite wrestler in the business today. His wrestling style is fresh and combines old school technical wrestling with new school flair. I have never seen a Bryan Danielson match where the crowd wasn't eating out of the palm of his hand. Dragon performs with amazing intensity and is absolutely electric in the ring. Afterall, he is the best in the world, ya know.

 

[justinsayne]

Humiliation is the only way to describe this match. Now I don't watch or read up on ROH.

So basically you just admitted to not doing an research or anything going into this match and are basically blindly voting for you hero?

Guess looking up a few of his matches on Youtube is just to hard...

If Danielson was that damn good, wouldn't he be in the WWE already?

Danielson doesn't wrestle a WWE style, I beleive Jake described him best once by calling him a slow burn submission wrestler, WWE fans simply don't have the attention span to sit through on of his matches, WWE would try and change him and it just wouldn't work

Meanwhile while he's been running around wrestling nobodies in indy feds,

AJ Styles, Samoa Joe, and CM Punk are nobodies?, If I remember right all three have been world champs in either WWE or TNA and Danielson has beaten them

John Cena has been the biggest star in the biggest company. He's beaten basically everyone except the Undertaker, and that's only because he hasn't faced him yet in his prime.

But Kennedy has, just one more reason people should vote Kennedy over Miz, he's done something the great John Cena has failed to do so far, but that's for another thread

WCW was a much bigger company than ROH. Danielson isn't used to the spotlight as hasn't beaten anybody in the WWE, the current biggest wrestling promotion. So there's no way in the world John Cena can lose this match. Only ROH marks would think otherwise. 3 minute squash.

So you're going to fall back on that tired ass argument that just because Cena is in WWE he automatically wins in squash. LAME try again

I am honestly shocked, but pleasantly surprised to see that at this point 9 other people have voted for my beloved Dragon (who's name is spelled wrong here- it breaks my heart). I am well aware that John Cena will win this match. Although I must say that it's ironic that a year ago at this time Slyfox was basically the only person here that thought Cena even deserved to live.

My vote for Bryan Danielson is not meant to take anything away from John Cena. I don't hate him and I don't think he's a terrible wrestler. I simply prefer Bryan Danielson. I like submission holds and the technical aspects of a match; both of which Danielson delivers in each and every match. As I've stated many times before, The American Dragon is by far my favorite wrestler in the business today. His wrestling style is fresh and combines old school technical wrestling with new school flair. I have never seen a Bryan Danielson match where the crowd wasn't eating out of the palm of his hand. Dragon performs with amazing intensity and is absolutely electric in the ring. Afterall, he is the best in the world, ya know.

'Bout mother fucking time you get in here, though gotta admit I figured you provide a little more reason why Danielson would at least put up a fight in this match which he would, it's no secret I am not a fan of Danielson but fucking christ anyone thinking this match would be a squash is just kidding themselves, that and the fact that the best argument people seem to provide for Cena winning is that he's in WWE and Danielson is in ROH, and their apparent inability to at least look up a few matches on Youtube made me vote for Dragon