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Vince Russo Dragging TNA Down?
- Thread starter SpiralHands
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clifffside
Dark Match Jobber
I know it must be frustrating for Glenn to defend himself and TNA when there is obviously an agenda amongst the net to crap on things that they don't like. My take on this is simple. If you don't like the show, then don't watch it. If you don't like the show but still watch it, then you obviously are watching so you can bash it, which I think is a waste of time because your only adding to the show's viewership.
As for this Russo debate; it is an arguement that will forever rage on with both sides not wavering until one of two things happens
1.) TNA goes out of business and the Anti-Russo people say "I told you so"
2.) TNA continues to grow to the point where they compete with WWE and Pro-Russo people say "I told you so"
I don't see scenerio number one happening at all. I do however see scenerio happening someday, but it won't be entirely because of Vince Russo and it won't happen in the very near future.
Those are my 2 cents
As for this Russo debate; it is an arguement that will forever rage on with both sides not wavering until one of two things happens
1.) TNA goes out of business and the Anti-Russo people say "I told you so"
2.) TNA continues to grow to the point where they compete with WWE and Pro-Russo people say "I told you so"
I don't see scenerio number one happening at all. I do however see scenerio happening someday, but it won't be entirely because of Vince Russo and it won't happen in the very near future.
Those are my 2 cents
lol notice how inferno defends his credibility but not the fact that TNA is just unbelievably horrible. maybe because deep down he knows that the show is just plain bad but will not admit it. of course not, why would he badmouth his employer? kissass
He was defending himself because jackass AudioSlave said Meltzer has more credbility than him.
I truly want to understand why you guys think the TNA Product is so bad. Pretty much everything I hear is based on personal preference or traditonalist belief.
People watch the TNA show just to pick out bad things. Why not concentrate on the positives.
Things somebody might not like is liked by fans elsewhere. TNA has about 1.5 million fans in the United States while they have hundred thousands of fans internationally. If the product was that bad, which it isn't then why do so many fans like it. I don't want to hear insults you'd hear from Konnan about how TNA Fans are morons.
There are things I don't like in TNA, like the whole Super Eric thing.
My biggest complaints come in the form of:
-Bad Commercial Placement (not a creative problem)
-Not enough wrestling on iMPACT
-Not enough clean finishes
-Not enough build for big time matches
-Occasional stupid maneauvers but every company makes them.
Otherwise, I will defend TNA on any other creative problem they have because people put it out of proportion!
Leave it to The Disco Inferno (pause and absorb that atrocious moniker for a second... then laugh) to antagonize forum members in his narcissistic nature. So you get paid to come here and be a dick because you were an active wrestler at one time for WCW (albeit a forgetable one) so you're paid to come online and be a complete and total dick. And why? Because members of the internet community, in their infinite right as a consumer criticize said product (TNA) for its faults. Sure, it is your right to defend the product, but take a step back and look at it this way, "gg inferno."
Read JR.'s blog much? It's always a good read. People constantly criticize the WWE for their own faults but does Jim Ross, as a loyal and valued employee of the WWE go out of his way to be a complete and total ******** to the fans who will often criticize the product they spend money on for its sporadic shortcomings? No. Granted the IWC is not exactly the brightest crop out there and more often than not, just shit all over TNA for fuck's sake, it doesn't justify your temper tantrums and attempts to belittle other people's opinions. I wouldn't bank on it but it's highly possible the reason people here often bash TNA is because you so passionately defend their often mediocre booking in a manner with zero class. ...AND YOU'RE NOT EVEN AN IMPORTANT PART OF THE TNA TV PROGRAMMING. When was the last time you were even on Impact? When you embarrassed yourself by playing Shark Boy's dad, a character you'll defend to the grave, apparently, despite how unoriginal and lame it is?
News flash, it's a bit ironic that you demean anyone as a "follower." Aren't you a mark for TNA programming? Aren't you dangling off the preverbial balls of Jeff Jarrett and Vince Russo by defending this sometimes mediocre programming, often citing ratings as the almighty gospel that indicates what is compelling booking or not? You're not exactly a leader, Glenn. You're a follower so it's about time you dismounted the high horse. Maybe if you were less of a dick in your defenses, you'd actually garner some respect around here but instead, in your infinite attempt to be the cool heel or asshole you can be, you do things the hard way and hope, in what your own mind consider the brainless drones, will succumb to your infinite knowledge and admit they were wrong.
Take a step back and look at it this way... ever since Vince Russo came aboard TNA, the loyal TNA fanbase from the IWC have started this backlash due to the stupidity that ensued immediately after. Keep in mind this is the same fanbase that would pop for TNA and the great booking it had, from heel Jarrett Champion, to Christian's coming and the unforgetable X-Division feuds involving Joe, Styles and Daniels. Sure, the ratings increased but not by much and wouldn't they have inevitably as the company hired more known stars (former WWE talent), was advertised by Spike TV and ultimately got a second hour? Who's to say if Vince Russo (a terrible writer if left unchecked, look at the Attitude Era then look at his horrible stint in WCW, a company that couldn't control The Warrior, nor him) wasn't hired, the TNA product today would not be much better? Can you? If you do, please pull the crystal ball out of your ass, I'd like to take a peak.
Sure, that's a double-edged sword reasoning, you'll probably say "ERM, I DUNNO, HOW DO YOU KNOW IT WOULDN'T BE MUCH WORSE THAN SHARK BOY STEVE AUSTIN AND UNMASKED ABYSS WITH A FAMILY DRAMA REMINISCENT OF KANE/UNDERTAKER HUR HUR." With or without Russo, the rating would have reached 1.1 or whatever the hell they average now because wrestling fans would have tuned in for this fresh new company regardless of the comedic shtick that would go on. I know I did, while overlooking the horrible storylines. I enjoy watching the young new talent I can only see in TNA, but I can't for one second stomach the storylines with more plotholes than Terminator 3.
It is 2008, let's look at the current affairs in TNA; The Fallen Angel Christopher Daniels is playing Curry Man. Samoa Joe is two years too late in his World title reign after Kurt "Paul Laveque II" Angle came in and broke his undefeated streak (anybody remember when Joe was a force to be reckoned with ala Goldberg or Lesnar before Angle came in?), A.J Styles is Impact's Doink The Clown (without the make-up), a jobber is emulating the biggest wrestler of the attitude era, Petey Williams is now known as "Lil' Petey Pump", Eric Young is The Hurricane II (because we know how well the superhero gimmick worked in the WWE. oh wait, Gregory Helms doesn't wear a mask!), Abyss will return (unmasked, this is TNA repeating WWE's mistake by unmasking Kane so not only do they make their own mistakes, they like to repeat WWE's as well), and finally... who could forget? VKM's attempt to wage war on the WWE, only to be ignored because they are in an inferior company.
That's the product you're defending. Sure, there are pros I can count.
James Storm is getting over as a singles competitor, Bobby Roode has morphed into a great young heel, the women's division is thriving and... Joe is finally champion, that counts for something I suppose, even if it's all late.
Read JR.'s blog much? It's always a good read. People constantly criticize the WWE for their own faults but does Jim Ross, as a loyal and valued employee of the WWE go out of his way to be a complete and total ******** to the fans who will often criticize the product they spend money on for its sporadic shortcomings? No. Granted the IWC is not exactly the brightest crop out there and more often than not, just shit all over TNA for fuck's sake, it doesn't justify your temper tantrums and attempts to belittle other people's opinions. I wouldn't bank on it but it's highly possible the reason people here often bash TNA is because you so passionately defend their often mediocre booking in a manner with zero class. ...AND YOU'RE NOT EVEN AN IMPORTANT PART OF THE TNA TV PROGRAMMING. When was the last time you were even on Impact? When you embarrassed yourself by playing Shark Boy's dad, a character you'll defend to the grave, apparently, despite how unoriginal and lame it is?
News flash, it's a bit ironic that you demean anyone as a "follower." Aren't you a mark for TNA programming? Aren't you dangling off the preverbial balls of Jeff Jarrett and Vince Russo by defending this sometimes mediocre programming, often citing ratings as the almighty gospel that indicates what is compelling booking or not? You're not exactly a leader, Glenn. You're a follower so it's about time you dismounted the high horse. Maybe if you were less of a dick in your defenses, you'd actually garner some respect around here but instead, in your infinite attempt to be the cool heel or asshole you can be, you do things the hard way and hope, in what your own mind consider the brainless drones, will succumb to your infinite knowledge and admit they were wrong.
Take a step back and look at it this way... ever since Vince Russo came aboard TNA, the loyal TNA fanbase from the IWC have started this backlash due to the stupidity that ensued immediately after. Keep in mind this is the same fanbase that would pop for TNA and the great booking it had, from heel Jarrett Champion, to Christian's coming and the unforgetable X-Division feuds involving Joe, Styles and Daniels. Sure, the ratings increased but not by much and wouldn't they have inevitably as the company hired more known stars (former WWE talent), was advertised by Spike TV and ultimately got a second hour? Who's to say if Vince Russo (a terrible writer if left unchecked, look at the Attitude Era then look at his horrible stint in WCW, a company that couldn't control The Warrior, nor him) wasn't hired, the TNA product today would not be much better? Can you? If you do, please pull the crystal ball out of your ass, I'd like to take a peak.
Sure, that's a double-edged sword reasoning, you'll probably say "ERM, I DUNNO, HOW DO YOU KNOW IT WOULDN'T BE MUCH WORSE THAN SHARK BOY STEVE AUSTIN AND UNMASKED ABYSS WITH A FAMILY DRAMA REMINISCENT OF KANE/UNDERTAKER HUR HUR." With or without Russo, the rating would have reached 1.1 or whatever the hell they average now because wrestling fans would have tuned in for this fresh new company regardless of the comedic shtick that would go on. I know I did, while overlooking the horrible storylines. I enjoy watching the young new talent I can only see in TNA, but I can't for one second stomach the storylines with more plotholes than Terminator 3.
It is 2008, let's look at the current affairs in TNA; The Fallen Angel Christopher Daniels is playing Curry Man. Samoa Joe is two years too late in his World title reign after Kurt "Paul Laveque II" Angle came in and broke his undefeated streak (anybody remember when Joe was a force to be reckoned with ala Goldberg or Lesnar before Angle came in?), A.J Styles is Impact's Doink The Clown (without the make-up), a jobber is emulating the biggest wrestler of the attitude era, Petey Williams is now known as "Lil' Petey Pump", Eric Young is The Hurricane II (because we know how well the superhero gimmick worked in the WWE. oh wait, Gregory Helms doesn't wear a mask!), Abyss will return (unmasked, this is TNA repeating WWE's mistake by unmasking Kane so not only do they make their own mistakes, they like to repeat WWE's as well), and finally... who could forget? VKM's attempt to wage war on the WWE, only to be ignored because they are in an inferior company.
That's the product you're defending. Sure, there are pros I can count.
James Storm is getting over as a singles competitor, Bobby Roode has morphed into a great young heel, the women's division is thriving and... Joe is finally champion, that counts for something I suppose, even if it's all late.
Fuck you Glen Gibertti go suck a dick.
Wow, you must be a 13 year old. Even better you can read. What is worse is that you are allowed to get on the internet and talk like that.
No, let's not argue or debate him intelligently, let's tell him to suck a dick. How is he supposed to respond to that? Okay, I will (not really Glen)
Hey Glen! Why don't you just die. Seriously. You think you are king shit because you played a damn homo in WCW. Get off your damn faggy high horse and realize you are nothing. Nobody cares about you're worthless career. TNA is the worst product out there today, they will NEVER be a top product and they will never get a 2.0 rating. TNA will fold in a max of 4 years and you will be just another worthless nobody. Who will be desperate to take every booking he can get, If any at all. Please end you're damn worthless life. thank you.
Audioslave
Pre-Show Stalwart
Slyfox: If you can't see how someone's employment in a company invokes a bias that puts the validity and truth of their comments in question, well then, there's no use really talking to you.
Also, a note: I've never paid for one issue of Meltzer's newsletter. News and notes from his sheet generally get posted at various places on the internet and that's how this information is generally acquired.
However, we're talking about creative and so on and so forth. You've never run the creative department of a successful wrestling company in your life. TNA doesn't count, because they're still in the same creative rut that they've been for the past year or two. 1.0 - 1.1's galore. Neither does WCW, because by the time you apparently got into creative the company was putting it's first foot into the grave.
The people who have actually booked successful wrestling shows that brought in money, ratings or innovation to the business are guys like Bill Watts, Jim Cornette, Paul Heyman, Vince McMahon, Pat Patterson, Bischoff etc. Guys like that. You're not one of them, nor are you a writer or a Hollywood television producer. The same could be said for Russo ever since he left WWF, because he hasn't a clue as to what worked about his OWN booking and has relied on cheap, insulting, filler crap ever since he left WWF. So your authority on the creative aspects of wrestling is minimal at best.
I'll make a semi-compromise on one thing though: Maybe Meltzer's wrong on this, maybe he's right. The fact is that I, as a natural skeptic, will not take your stance as the absolute truth due to other factors. Maybe it is Jeff's vision of the show, but the content is straight out of Russo's playbook. Maybe what you're trying to say is that Russo's booking the show, but he's booking it to the vision of Jeff Jarrett. So if it legitimately is Jeff's vision, then he needs to be removed by Dixie and the company needs to find someone not named Vince Russo to replace him and push the company forwards rather than keeping it in stagnation and stupidity.
Also, a note: I've never paid for one issue of Meltzer's newsletter. News and notes from his sheet generally get posted at various places on the internet and that's how this information is generally acquired.
The thing is that you're not a pro athlete. You're basically an athletic entertainer in spandex. Your opinion on the quality of the actual show is like if Lindsay Lohan saying that her latest bomb of a movie is a great achievement of film when everyone that actually knows anything about film making (or just has good taste in movies) is stating the opposite. The only thing you can legitimately talk about is from the perspective of a wrestler going into a match and how to get the fans against you or on your side. And if I were to get into the business as a wrestler I would probably listen to you if you gave me tips on that type of shit.i imagine if a pro athelete were to talk about his sport then you would just discount it that just because he plays he doesn't know anything
However, we're talking about creative and so on and so forth. You've never run the creative department of a successful wrestling company in your life. TNA doesn't count, because they're still in the same creative rut that they've been for the past year or two. 1.0 - 1.1's galore. Neither does WCW, because by the time you apparently got into creative the company was putting it's first foot into the grave.
The people who have actually booked successful wrestling shows that brought in money, ratings or innovation to the business are guys like Bill Watts, Jim Cornette, Paul Heyman, Vince McMahon, Pat Patterson, Bischoff etc. Guys like that. You're not one of them, nor are you a writer or a Hollywood television producer. The same could be said for Russo ever since he left WWF, because he hasn't a clue as to what worked about his OWN booking and has relied on cheap, insulting, filler crap ever since he left WWF. So your authority on the creative aspects of wrestling is minimal at best.
Why would I listen to someone who I know hasn't actually seen the movie, especially if it's a movie I was interested in seeing? I'm a big fan of film and television and that's the type of entertainment that I'd put my money aside for these days. Why would I prefer the opinion of someone who didn't see a movie, especially if it's one that I thought looked to be interesting? I generally go to the beat of my own drum and watch whatever I feel like. Do I sometimes read reviews and take note of people's opinions? Yeah, but when I do I use that merely as a gauge to get a rounded idea of if a movie will appeal to me.You're the type of moron that would judge the movie based on the reviews from C, D, and E before you'd listen to A.
I know what you're trying to get at with the quote before this one. It's the whole "Well THE INTERNET~ hates TNA and you're a part of the internet, SO YOU ARE REQUIRED TO HATE TNA! This stuff isn't your honest, independent opinion!" Even though I'm not the typical IWF, because I like whatever I like regardless of the opinion of a few rubes on the internet. I'll never be able to convince you otherwise, nor would I care to waste my time doing that. Why? Because you're the Bill O'Reilly of internet wrestling columnists. Facts, logic, rationale, truth, etc. Throw that all out the window, especially if it disagrees with your stance.guys like you are the sole reason that the internet hurts the business, because you can't think for yourselves, and because you're a follower, and you are inclined to believe everything that you read that you pay for. boy, is that just plain 'ol dumb. you should just sit in front of the tv each week with your diaper and your dunce cap and suck your thumb while you watch the shows, because that's about how highly i think of your opinions.
I'll make a semi-compromise on one thing though: Maybe Meltzer's wrong on this, maybe he's right. The fact is that I, as a natural skeptic, will not take your stance as the absolute truth due to other factors. Maybe it is Jeff's vision of the show, but the content is straight out of Russo's playbook. Maybe what you're trying to say is that Russo's booking the show, but he's booking it to the vision of Jeff Jarrett. So if it legitimately is Jeff's vision, then he needs to be removed by Dixie and the company needs to find someone not named Vince Russo to replace him and push the company forwards rather than keeping it in stagnation and stupidity.
puckulence
Dark Match Jobber
first off glen gilbertti worls for tna so he would be a much more crdible source on it then meltzer. i didnt like the disco inferno gimmick and glen does come off as an ass in the majority of his columns but the truth is what it is. second meltzer is a dick that is probably just upset that this was the only way that he could make a name for himself in wrestling. third hasn't anyone read bischoff's book but me? bischoff says in his own words that part of wcw's failure was him not firing some people when he had the chance. he said time-warner took turner completely out of the equation and they started to kill wcw slowly but surely. bischoff and russo didnt get along but thats whatever. bischoff was actually fired before russo took over then brought back to help him out when it didn't look like russo could do the saving by himself. i have no problems with matches like the feast or fired match, i personaly thought it to be a good idea. the funny thing is the majority of people on here complaining will complain no matter what. they just like to bitch because in reality that's all they are is a bunch of whinny bitches that like to criticize everything for no reason. the bottom line is no one man is responsiablr for everything. russo is not solely responssible for the attitude era back then and he isn't solely responsible for tna's direction now
Audioslave
Pre-Show Stalwart
It's really funny how much TNA Kool Aid you are drinking. "It's just taste coming from a traditional standpoint, TNA is innovative and awesome and the future!~ andtheycantacceptit!!1"He was defending himself because jackass AudioSlave said Meltzer has more credbility than him.
Leave it to The Disco Inferno (pause and absorb that atrocious moniker for a second... then laugh) to antagonize forum members in his narcissistic nature. So you get paid to come here and be a dick because you were an active wrestler at one time for WCW (albeit a forgetable one) so you're paid to come online and be a complete and total dick. And why? Because members of the internet community, in their infinite right as a consumer criticize said product (TNA) for its faults. Sure, it is your right to defend the product, but take a step back and look at it this way, "gg inferno."
The Disco Inferno was a great heel that annoyed the fans. That is what it's supposed to do. You sound intelligent so we can refrain from launching insults at one another. I have criticized TNA for many things I didn't like. Glen was very respectful, because I was respectful to him. There is a difference between Constructive Criticism and Criticism. When you criticisize something based on "rumors" than you sound ignorant. You have all the right to constuctively criticize based on your like or dislike of a product, but make sure it's based off of what you see on your TV screen and not what you hear on the net. That's what likely pissed these guys off.
Read JR.'s blog much? It's always a good read. People constantly criticize the WWE for their own faults but does Jim Ross, as a loyal and valued employee of the WWE go out of his way to be a complete and total ******** to the fans who will often criticize the product they spend money on for its sporadic shortcomings? No. Granted the IWC is not exactly the brightest crop out there and more often than not, just shit all over TNA for fuck's sake, it doesn't justify your temper tantrums and attempts to belittle other people's opinions. I wouldn't bank on it but it's highly possible the reason people here often bash TNA is because you so passionately defend their often mediocre booking in a manner with zero class. ...AND YOU'RE NOT EVEN AN IMPORTANT PART OF THE TNA TV PROGRAMMING. When was the last time you were even on Impact? When you embarrassed yourself by playing Shark Boy's dad, a character you'll defend to the grave, apparently, despite how unoriginal and lame it is?
Jim Ross doesn't respond to all his feedback. I have sent him numerous E-Mails based on my dislike for the product. I wrote them without insulting anyone and he dodged the email. He ignores most of the angry insulting e-mails too.
He defends the booking because clowns on the internet throw out their opinions based on rumors from Dave Meltzer when in fact guys like Glen know more about what happens backstage than Dave Meltzer. TNA doesn't have a bad product, they just have a product you don't like.
You are honestly saying he can't have an opinion because he isn't a character onscreen. Why are you talking then?
Shark Boy is a character that is liked by a group of fans. His merchandise sells well, he gets good reactions at events. He is "paying homage" to Stone Cold through the character as a famous manager would say.
News flash, it's a bit ironic that you demean anyone as a "follower." Aren't you a mark for TNA programming? Aren't you dangling off the preverbial balls of Jeff Jarrett and Vince Russo by defending this sometimes mediocre programming, often citing ratings as the almighty gospel that indicates what is compelling booking or not? You're not exactly a leader, Glenn. You're a follower so it's about time you dismounted the high horse. Maybe if you were less of a dick in your defenses, you'd actually garner some respect around here but instead, in your infinite attempt to be the cool heel or asshole you can be, you do things the hard way and hope, in what your own mind consider the brainless drones, will succumb to your infinite knowledge and admit they were wrong.
I am sure Glen is looking for respect on an internet forum. Technically, Glen is a rebel since he is currently on a forum filled with Anti-TNA posters.
Take a step back and look at it this way... ever since Vince Russo came aboard TNA, the loyal TNA fanbase from the IWC have started this backlash due to the stupidity that ensued immediately after. Keep in mind this is the same fanbase that would pop for TNA and the great booking it had, from heel Jarrett Champion, to Christian's coming and the unforgetable X-Division feuds involving Joe, Styles and Daniels. Sure, the ratings increased but not by much and wouldn't they have inevitably as the company hired more known stars (former WWE talent), was advertised by Spike TV and ultimately got a second hour? Who's to say if Vince Russo (a terrible writer if left unchecked, look at the Attitude Era then look at his horrible stint in WCW, a company that couldn't control The Warrior, nor him) wasn't hired, the TNA product today would not be much better? Can you? If you do, please pull the crystal ball out of your ass, I'd like to take a peak.
Maybe TNA lost fans on the IWC, but they gained fans from the MWC (Mainstream Wrestling Community) which is what TNA Caters to.
Just because they got more stars doesn't mean the ratings would jump. Stars arriving would signify quick jumps on the ratings (like with Sting). What TNA needs is solid continuous growth. Adding a second hour could only add to the product but make the ratings more difficult to maintain. (Which they have done).
I do know that Vince Russo's WWF was better in my opinion than Vince Russo's WCW. It was likely because he was edited heavily which probably is needed to maintain a good product. If TNA could add an editor and a TV Director, the product would improve in my opinion.
Do you want to take a look at his ass or the crystal ball with shit on it? What is wrong with you?
Sure, that's a double-edged sword reasoning, you'll probably say "ERM, I DUNNO, HOW DO YOU KNOW IT WOULDN'T BE MUCH WORSE THAN SHARK BOY STEVE AUSTIN AND UNMASKED ABYSS WITH A FAMILY DRAMA REMINISCENT OF KANE/UNDERTAKER HUR HUR." With or without Russo, the rating would have reached 1.1 or whatever the hell they average now because wrestling fans would have tuned in for this fresh new company regardless of the comedic shtick that would go on. I know I did, while overlooking the horrible storylines. I enjoy watching the young new talent I can only see in TNA, but I can't for one second stomach the storylines with more plotholes than Terminator 3.
You can't always have serious storylines and pure wrestling. TNA was getting stale right before Vince came on board. The X Division was in shambles thanks to whoever was booking before. Things were getting repetitive. Maybe things would be better but things could be much worse. When Vince came on board he shook things up and created possibly the most entertaining period in TNA (November/December 2006). Stale characters like Matt Bentley, James Gang and Chris Sabin were getting complete makeovers and getting an actual direction. They had meaning to be there. AMW and LAX had an exciting feud. AJ became not only a good wrestler but an entertaining character. Had Vince Russo not come on board Abyss wouldn't have been World Champion and AMW would still be together (not a good thing because they were getting stale)
Like I said before, a Vince Russo TNA can work. I have heard rumors that Jeff Jarrett shoots down so many ideas from Russo. I think that if TNA used some of his other ideas and had someone like Jim Cornette be his editor, TNA would be extremely entertaining. A great booker and a great writer working together use a great roster and make a great product.
It is 2008, let's look at the current affairs in TNA; The Fallen Angel Christopher Daniels is playing Curry Man. Samoa Joe is two years too late in his World title reign after Kurt "Paul Laveque II" Angle came in and broke his undefeated streak (anybody remember when Joe was a force to be reckoned with ala Goldberg or Lesnar before Angle came in?), A.J Styles is Impact's Doink The Clown (without the make-up), a jobber is emulating the biggest wrestler of the attitude era, Petey Williams is now known as "Lil' Petey Pump", Eric Young is The Hurricane II (because we know how well the superhero gimmick worked in the WWE. oh wait, Gregory Helms doesn't wear a mask!), Abyss will return (unmasked, this is TNA repeating WWE's mistake by unmasking Kane so not only do they make their own mistakes, they like to repeat WWE's as well), and finally... who could forget? VKM's attempt to wage war on the WWE, only to be ignored because they are in an inferior company.
-A large group of people love the cult favorite known as Curry Man
-The money is in the chase. Buyrates will be much higher than that of Hard Justice 2007. Joe wasn't ready to be champion. (You have to change things up character-wise)
-AJ's character now has depth. When he turns face and goes out on his own he will be LOVED badly by the fans and he will be a more rounded wrestler
-People like Shark Boy, Stone Cold thinks he is funny. Comedy is important in Sports Entertainment.
-Petey Williams is actually getting a push, one that he hadn't received since 2004
-Super Eric is a good character in short doses and as long as he stays away from the title picture (messed that up)
-Nobody said Abyss is coming back unmasked. I heard he was coming back more of a monster. Him unmasking is right now just internet rumors.
-This actually brought attention to them. Remember the fans chanting TNA during the New Year's Revolution Press conference or during the Rosie O'Donnell/Donald Trump Match
That's the product you're defending. Sure, there are pros I can count.
James Storm is getting over as a singles competitor, Bobby Roode has morphed into a great young heel, the women's division is thriving and... Joe is finally champion, that counts for something I suppose, even if it's all late
I was worrying that you hated the TNA Product? Thankyou for your comments
The Disco Inferno was a great heel that annoyed the fans. That is what it's supposed to do. You sound intelligent so we can refrain from launching insults at one another. I have criticized TNA for many things I didn't like. Glen was very respectful, because I was respectful to him. There is a difference between Constructive Criticism and Criticism. When you criticisize something based on "rumors" than you sound ignorant. You have all the right to constuctively criticize based on your like or dislike of a product, but make sure it's based off of what you see on your TV screen and not what you hear on the net. That's what likely pissed these guys off.
Read JR.'s blog much? It's always a good read. People constantly criticize the WWE for their own faults but does Jim Ross, as a loyal and valued employee of the WWE go out of his way to be a complete and total ******** to the fans who will often criticize the product they spend money on for its sporadic shortcomings? No. Granted the IWC is not exactly the brightest crop out there and more often than not, just shit all over TNA for fuck's sake, it doesn't justify your temper tantrums and attempts to belittle other people's opinions. I wouldn't bank on it but it's highly possible the reason people here often bash TNA is because you so passionately defend their often mediocre booking in a manner with zero class. ...AND YOU'RE NOT EVEN AN IMPORTANT PART OF THE TNA TV PROGRAMMING. When was the last time you were even on Impact? When you embarrassed yourself by playing Shark Boy's dad, a character you'll defend to the grave, apparently, despite how unoriginal and lame it is?
Jim Ross doesn't respond to all his feedback. I have sent him numerous E-Mails based on my dislike for the product. I wrote them without insulting anyone and he dodged the email. He ignores most of the angry insulting e-mails too.
He defends the booking because clowns on the internet throw out their opinions based on rumors from Dave Meltzer when in fact guys like Glen know more about what happens backstage than Dave Meltzer. TNA doesn't have a bad product, they just have a product you don't like.
You are honestly saying he can't have an opinion because he isn't a character onscreen. Why are you talking then?
Shark Boy is a character that is liked by a group of fans. His merchandise sells well, he gets good reactions at events. He is "paying homage" to Stone Cold through the character as a famous manager would say.
News flash, it's a bit ironic that you demean anyone as a "follower." Aren't you a mark for TNA programming? Aren't you dangling off the preverbial balls of Jeff Jarrett and Vince Russo by defending this sometimes mediocre programming, often citing ratings as the almighty gospel that indicates what is compelling booking or not? You're not exactly a leader, Glenn. You're a follower so it's about time you dismounted the high horse. Maybe if you were less of a dick in your defenses, you'd actually garner some respect around here but instead, in your infinite attempt to be the cool heel or asshole you can be, you do things the hard way and hope, in what your own mind consider the brainless drones, will succumb to your infinite knowledge and admit they were wrong.
I am sure Glen is looking for respect on an internet forum. Technically, Glen is a rebel since he is currently on a forum filled with Anti-TNA posters.
Take a step back and look at it this way... ever since Vince Russo came aboard TNA, the loyal TNA fanbase from the IWC have started this backlash due to the stupidity that ensued immediately after. Keep in mind this is the same fanbase that would pop for TNA and the great booking it had, from heel Jarrett Champion, to Christian's coming and the unforgetable X-Division feuds involving Joe, Styles and Daniels. Sure, the ratings increased but not by much and wouldn't they have inevitably as the company hired more known stars (former WWE talent), was advertised by Spike TV and ultimately got a second hour? Who's to say if Vince Russo (a terrible writer if left unchecked, look at the Attitude Era then look at his horrible stint in WCW, a company that couldn't control The Warrior, nor him) wasn't hired, the TNA product today would not be much better? Can you? If you do, please pull the crystal ball out of your ass, I'd like to take a peak.
Maybe TNA lost fans on the IWC, but they gained fans from the MWC (Mainstream Wrestling Community) which is what TNA Caters to.
Just because they got more stars doesn't mean the ratings would jump. Stars arriving would signify quick jumps on the ratings (like with Sting). What TNA needs is solid continuous growth. Adding a second hour could only add to the product but make the ratings more difficult to maintain. (Which they have done).
I do know that Vince Russo's WWF was better in my opinion than Vince Russo's WCW. It was likely because he was edited heavily which probably is needed to maintain a good product. If TNA could add an editor and a TV Director, the product would improve in my opinion.
Do you want to take a look at his ass or the crystal ball with shit on it? What is wrong with you?
Sure, that's a double-edged sword reasoning, you'll probably say "ERM, I DUNNO, HOW DO YOU KNOW IT WOULDN'T BE MUCH WORSE THAN SHARK BOY STEVE AUSTIN AND UNMASKED ABYSS WITH A FAMILY DRAMA REMINISCENT OF KANE/UNDERTAKER HUR HUR." With or without Russo, the rating would have reached 1.1 or whatever the hell they average now because wrestling fans would have tuned in for this fresh new company regardless of the comedic shtick that would go on. I know I did, while overlooking the horrible storylines. I enjoy watching the young new talent I can only see in TNA, but I can't for one second stomach the storylines with more plotholes than Terminator 3.
You can't always have serious storylines and pure wrestling. TNA was getting stale right before Vince came on board. The X Division was in shambles thanks to whoever was booking before. Things were getting repetitive. Maybe things would be better but things could be much worse. When Vince came on board he shook things up and created possibly the most entertaining period in TNA (November/December 2006). Stale characters like Matt Bentley, James Gang and Chris Sabin were getting complete makeovers and getting an actual direction. They had meaning to be there. AMW and LAX had an exciting feud. AJ became not only a good wrestler but an entertaining character. Had Vince Russo not come on board Abyss wouldn't have been World Champion and AMW would still be together (not a good thing because they were getting stale)
Like I said before, a Vince Russo TNA can work. I have heard rumors that Jeff Jarrett shoots down so many ideas from Russo. I think that if TNA used some of his other ideas and had someone like Jim Cornette be his editor, TNA would be extremely entertaining. A great booker and a great writer working together use a great roster and make a great product.
It is 2008, let's look at the current affairs in TNA; The Fallen Angel Christopher Daniels is playing Curry Man. Samoa Joe is two years too late in his World title reign after Kurt "Paul Laveque II" Angle came in and broke his undefeated streak (anybody remember when Joe was a force to be reckoned with ala Goldberg or Lesnar before Angle came in?), A.J Styles is Impact's Doink The Clown (without the make-up), a jobber is emulating the biggest wrestler of the attitude era, Petey Williams is now known as "Lil' Petey Pump", Eric Young is The Hurricane II (because we know how well the superhero gimmick worked in the WWE. oh wait, Gregory Helms doesn't wear a mask!), Abyss will return (unmasked, this is TNA repeating WWE's mistake by unmasking Kane so not only do they make their own mistakes, they like to repeat WWE's as well), and finally... who could forget? VKM's attempt to wage war on the WWE, only to be ignored because they are in an inferior company.
-A large group of people love the cult favorite known as Curry Man
-The money is in the chase. Buyrates will be much higher than that of Hard Justice 2007. Joe wasn't ready to be champion. (You have to change things up character-wise)
-AJ's character now has depth. When he turns face and goes out on his own he will be LOVED badly by the fans and he will be a more rounded wrestler
-People like Shark Boy, Stone Cold thinks he is funny. Comedy is important in Sports Entertainment.
-Petey Williams is actually getting a push, one that he hadn't received since 2004
-Super Eric is a good character in short doses and as long as he stays away from the title picture (messed that up)
-Nobody said Abyss is coming back unmasked. I heard he was coming back more of a monster. Him unmasking is right now just internet rumors.
-This actually brought attention to them. Remember the fans chanting TNA during the New Year's Revolution Press conference or during the Rosie O'Donnell/Donald Trump Match
That's the product you're defending. Sure, there are pros I can count.
James Storm is getting over as a singles competitor, Bobby Roode has morphed into a great young heel, the women's division is thriving and... Joe is finally champion, that counts for something I suppose, even if it's all late
I was worrying that you hated the TNA Product? Thankyou for your comments
It's really funny how much TNA Kool Aid you are drinking. "It's just taste coming from a traditional standpoint, TNA is innovative and awesome and the future!~ andtheycantacceptit!!1"
I don't drink Kool Aid. When was the last time WWE or ROH innovated anything? At least TNA is trying. WWE invented the Elimination Chamber and the Beat the Clock Challenge most recently. Elimination Chamber came in 2002 while the BTC Challenge debuted in January 2005. TNA created the Ultimate X Match in 2003, the Lockdown concept in 2005, World's X Cup derived from America's X Cup in 2006, Fight for the Right, King of the Mountain and so much more. While they have created some bad matches they created some instant classics as well.
There are thing I would like to see more of in TNA. I want them to improve the X Divisions and Tag Team Divisions. Improve Production (commercial placement) and booking of matches. TNA still has many of the storylines they were using in 2005 but now they add more Sports Entertainment storylines which add depth to the product. I see TNA for its positives and not its negatives.
There are plenty of things you can do if you don't like the product. Don't watch it and watch something else. UFC, WWE, movies or a TV Show. Play videogames instead. TNA has iMPACT for 2 hours a week and there are plenty of people who like it. The majority of the TNA Fanbase is Mainstream with only a small portion as Internet Fans. They should cater to the majority and add in Internet References to make you feel special.
If Spike TV was really concerned about TNA they would set a deadline. I know I have worked with TV Companies who have done this. Should the ratings average go down to a certain level for a period of time then a dramatic and quick change of direction is needed. If TNA doesn't reach a certain rating average by a deadline then either focus groups need to be brought in or it could be the network's fault. I think Spike TV should say to TNA. "If you don't reach a 3.5 rating by November of this year than we need to see a change in direction".
TNA needs to understand that they need constant growth (they have had that so far) if they want to continue having a partnership with someone like Spike TV. Unless TNA is a dying brand (which they definitely are not since they are still the fastest growing brand in wrestling) they shouldn't even worry about Spike TV not renewing their contract with the network as another network will definitely pick them up.
Look at ECW which had ratings in the 2's. Now they are lucky to get 1.4s and they are under the WWE banner. TNA had 4% growth from January 2007 to January 2008.
i try to watch TNA but....i just cant. i watched the last impact and after seeing how 2 titles changed hands i gave up. especially after the tag-team title match,my exact words were "are you freaking kidding me?" after that i just couldn't watch anymore. WWE is by no means perfect but come on you know?
Elliott White
Dark Match Jobber
TNA is tough to watch for two hours. I'll admit to muting the TV so I don't get any storyline. These guys are working their hearts out week after week in the ring, but the storylines just don't create the dream. They are not believable and fun.
Even some of the WWE crap is at least believable. If it is too silly, at least it is fun to watch and elicits a good laugh.
TNA is just...Money in the Bank w/ Petey Williams? Why did Petey stomp JAy like nine times? Who gave Scott Steiner the authority to give Petey the title shot? Why can't AJ just be a regular guy? Like Rey Mysterio? Can't the guns just win one little match? Same with Rock and Rave. Just one little rollup victory to keep us guessing.
We want surprises that are planned and teased. Not random swerves.
Even some of the WWE crap is at least believable. If it is too silly, at least it is fun to watch and elicits a good laugh.
TNA is just...Money in the Bank w/ Petey Williams? Why did Petey stomp JAy like nine times? Who gave Scott Steiner the authority to give Petey the title shot? Why can't AJ just be a regular guy? Like Rey Mysterio? Can't the guns just win one little match? Same with Rock and Rave. Just one little rollup victory to keep us guessing.
We want surprises that are planned and teased. Not random swerves.
Damolisher
Dark Match Jobber
See, now, Glenn may know what he's talking about, but is there REALLY a need to do it in a way that talks down to people who says something contrary to what he knows/thinks? I mean, yo, we're wrestling fans, making stupid cracks, and being generally hostile is what we do best. He's been in the business long enough that he SHOULD know that by now.
Crippler4ever
Dark Match Jobber
Well whatever is going on TNA does suck now... I miss watching awesome matches! I'm pretty sure it started getting really bad right after bound for glory 2006. Which is sad cause that was Angle's debut as a guest ref for Sting vs Jarret. Is it so hard to ask a company to put wrestling first and storyline's and dumb gimmicks second like TNA used to do? They have all the talent in the world and the right ideas with the cool X-division matches.
Also who's idea was it to bring in Morgan, Tomko, Dudley's, etc.? Those are bad moves. I understand having name recognition and that's why TNA has Sting, Nash, Booker, Angle, Chrisian. That is enough. Knowbody remembers Morgan or Tomko with there WWE runs. And the Dudley's are washed up and really need to go away cause they hog so much precious time in which TNA could be having awesome matches going on instead.
Also who's idea was it to bring in Morgan, Tomko, Dudley's, etc.? Those are bad moves. I understand having name recognition and that's why TNA has Sting, Nash, Booker, Angle, Chrisian. That is enough. Knowbody remembers Morgan or Tomko with there WWE runs. And the Dudley's are washed up and really need to go away cause they hog so much precious time in which TNA could be having awesome matches going on instead.
Greenlight13
Getting Noticed By Management
Did i honestly read Gilberti correctly? Is he questioning that Paul Heyman was a genius?!? Heyman has an incredible mind for this business and when he says he could out-book anyone today i honestly believe him. His problem was his ambition, he wanted to do it all and didnt have the resources of a Bischoff/Russo/McMahon, and he never got over in WWE because Vince wanted to control him too much, you hand a company over to Heyman and trust him, he'll make it better.
Enough about that though and back to topic, as i already wrote, none of us know precisely what is who's idea and what isn't but i know whoever has been booking TNA for the last 6 months or so is doing so badly. Fight for the Right wasnt really entirely their fault because they had people dropping out like Rikishi but i guess it was better than the previous one.
Queen of the Cage was just plain bad and Cuffed in the Cage was horrible. Why does TNA feel they have to use absolutely every single member of their roster on PPVs? Sure i want to see Kaz, MCMG, LAX, Steiner, Petey and Rellik but i dont want to see 12 men inside a cage with no space to move and have them get handcuffed there so they just continue to take up space after they've been eliminated. The Queen in the Cage concept is bad because it isnt a match you can really care about, getting INTO the cage isnt something too exciting, sure the match itself wasnt bad, but they should have just some sort of Knockout Equivilent of the Xscape match.
Booking of contenders is also done badly, im confused, last time i checked, LAX were number one contenders as of Destination X. They then dont get their title shot at a PPV, but an episode of Impact over a month later and another team gets into the match with LAX just being brushed to the side in favor of the Super Eric gimmick and honestly, IS that over? Doesnt seem to be to me. Made everyone, myself included, laugh when he first did it, but i dont want it to be his regular gimmick because it is, well, silly.
Fans of Shark Boy and CurryMan, pleeeeeeeeeeease tell me why? Do you like to say KOOO-NICHIWA!!!! and see him dance? Surely you cant think that costume and hearing a man call another man HOT, SPICY and TASTES GREAT are both good things? I understand some people find a tiny dude who couldnt really wrestle anyway being the greatest wrestler of the 90's to be funny, but consistently? Are people popping for SHELL YEAH? everynight? Do they give a chuckle to the Clam Juice each episode? How about his promos that have got consistently worse since the first three or four? Or maybe it's the fact he is A BAD WRESTLER!!! At least Jay Lethal is decent, his gimmick is only enhancing his natural abilities, Shark Boy IS his gimmick and to me that cant sell,
But hey, maybe im just some IWC member who sits around *********ing to ROH (only ever seen one show and while it isnt amazing i was impressed) and gulping down the words of Dave Meltzer (never once read any of his work) saying the X-Division is the best thing about TNA (was true when it was booked properly with high quality stars, i dont know the DVD sales but the best of the x-division volumes must sell pretty well, oh and wasnt the Unbreakable 3-Way named match of the year?... oh and hasnt the match of the year almost always involved one or more X-Division stars?).... you're right Disco, you're always right.
Enough about that though and back to topic, as i already wrote, none of us know precisely what is who's idea and what isn't but i know whoever has been booking TNA for the last 6 months or so is doing so badly. Fight for the Right wasnt really entirely their fault because they had people dropping out like Rikishi but i guess it was better than the previous one.
Queen of the Cage was just plain bad and Cuffed in the Cage was horrible. Why does TNA feel they have to use absolutely every single member of their roster on PPVs? Sure i want to see Kaz, MCMG, LAX, Steiner, Petey and Rellik but i dont want to see 12 men inside a cage with no space to move and have them get handcuffed there so they just continue to take up space after they've been eliminated. The Queen in the Cage concept is bad because it isnt a match you can really care about, getting INTO the cage isnt something too exciting, sure the match itself wasnt bad, but they should have just some sort of Knockout Equivilent of the Xscape match.
Booking of contenders is also done badly, im confused, last time i checked, LAX were number one contenders as of Destination X. They then dont get their title shot at a PPV, but an episode of Impact over a month later and another team gets into the match with LAX just being brushed to the side in favor of the Super Eric gimmick and honestly, IS that over? Doesnt seem to be to me. Made everyone, myself included, laugh when he first did it, but i dont want it to be his regular gimmick because it is, well, silly.
Fans of Shark Boy and CurryMan, pleeeeeeeeeeease tell me why? Do you like to say KOOO-NICHIWA!!!! and see him dance? Surely you cant think that costume and hearing a man call another man HOT, SPICY and TASTES GREAT are both good things? I understand some people find a tiny dude who couldnt really wrestle anyway being the greatest wrestler of the 90's to be funny, but consistently? Are people popping for SHELL YEAH? everynight? Do they give a chuckle to the Clam Juice each episode? How about his promos that have got consistently worse since the first three or four? Or maybe it's the fact he is A BAD WRESTLER!!! At least Jay Lethal is decent, his gimmick is only enhancing his natural abilities, Shark Boy IS his gimmick and to me that cant sell,
But hey, maybe im just some IWC member who sits around *********ing to ROH (only ever seen one show and while it isnt amazing i was impressed) and gulping down the words of Dave Meltzer (never once read any of his work) saying the X-Division is the best thing about TNA (was true when it was booked properly with high quality stars, i dont know the DVD sales but the best of the x-division volumes must sell pretty well, oh and wasnt the Unbreakable 3-Way named match of the year?... oh and hasnt the match of the year almost always involved one or more X-Division stars?).... you're right Disco, you're always right.
Count me in as a TNA defender. Don't like the product? Stop watching!!
I only watch WWE for some wrestlers I like: Edge, and Flair, before he left. Sure, I don't like somethings on TNA Impact at times, but it beats seeing a non-talent dwarf get more airtime than guys who can work that get no airtime. Why TNA stills push NOA, I'm not sure, but they have a women's division that puts the "Divas" to shame in terms of having real wrestling ability, where you are awarded on your merits, not because Hefner wants you. Was Joe late in becoming champ? Maybe, but at least he has a chance here, as he does not have a body that Vince likes, and since he is samoan. . .well, Vince thinks they are all beasts and eat raw fish with there mouths dunked in a lake in 2008.
I guess it's like the whole homophobic cliche: most people who complain or overtly direct unusual amounts of hatred or speak against homosexuality must have insecure closet issues about there own sexuality--and since most internet fans are WWE fanboys that whine and bitch about TNA all the time. . . .well, you be the judge(they keep watching it!!!--Yes, you can use this, and, your welcome, Disco)
I only watch WWE for some wrestlers I like: Edge, and Flair, before he left. Sure, I don't like somethings on TNA Impact at times, but it beats seeing a non-talent dwarf get more airtime than guys who can work that get no airtime. Why TNA stills push NOA, I'm not sure, but they have a women's division that puts the "Divas" to shame in terms of having real wrestling ability, where you are awarded on your merits, not because Hefner wants you. Was Joe late in becoming champ? Maybe, but at least he has a chance here, as he does not have a body that Vince likes, and since he is samoan. . .well, Vince thinks they are all beasts and eat raw fish with there mouths dunked in a lake in 2008.
I guess it's like the whole homophobic cliche: most people who complain or overtly direct unusual amounts of hatred or speak against homosexuality must have insecure closet issues about there own sexuality--and since most internet fans are WWE fanboys that whine and bitch about TNA all the time. . . .well, you be the judge(they keep watching it!!!--Yes, you can use this, and, your welcome, Disco)
Yes, TNA has pros and cons... everything does, yes it is too comedic at this time, yes it is fine to defend TNA... but how do you defend Glen Gilbertti?
"You know, I'm a voter. Aren't you supposed to lie to me and kiss my butt?" - Peter Venkman (Bill Murray) Ghostbusters II
Glen you are a pompous asshole, you sit there and get all pissy whenever anyone challenges your credibility...look you were DISQO, you are screwed in finding people to believe your credibility, man.... that and your most memorable fued was with Jacquelyn The IWC is ruining wrestling? That is the definition of passing the buck - you blame the fans instead of looking to your own company to fix what's wrong with wrestling. You can't take any responsibility for wrestling today? You were part of it right?...right?
If Meltzer is so mischievous with his journalism then you wouldn't mind denying or confirming a report that came, a long time ago now, that you were caught in some sort of illegal gambling ring? Well true or false?
"You know, I'm a voter. Aren't you supposed to lie to me and kiss my butt?" - Peter Venkman (Bill Murray) Ghostbusters II
Glen you are a pompous asshole, you sit there and get all pissy whenever anyone challenges your credibility...look you were DISQO, you are screwed in finding people to believe your credibility, man.... that and your most memorable fued was with Jacquelyn The IWC is ruining wrestling? That is the definition of passing the buck - you blame the fans instead of looking to your own company to fix what's wrong with wrestling. You can't take any responsibility for wrestling today? You were part of it right?...right?
If Meltzer is so mischievous with his journalism then you wouldn't mind denying or confirming a report that came, a long time ago now, that you were caught in some sort of illegal gambling ring? Well true or false?
Damien Reign
Dark Match Jobber
The gambling story is Disco's Business, not yours!
Why does everyone complain about TNA? Simple fact: Don't like it, don't watch it. Every company goes through rough times and has to learn, which TNA is doing now. Right now TNA is at a way better point than WWE's, ECW's and WCW's weakest point and they all survived it.
Why does everyone complain about TNA? Simple fact: Don't like it, don't watch it. Every company goes through rough times and has to learn, which TNA is doing now. Right now TNA is at a way better point than WWE's, ECW's and WCW's weakest point and they all survived it.
Audioslave
Pre-Show Stalwart
Let me get the negative out of the way, so I can end this portion of my reply on a positive: Fight for the Right was fucking stupid. The whole reverse battle royal, switching around the briefcases ad nauseam, etc. King of the Mountain is another confusing mess of a match. So much so, the casual fans I know of that have seen it wind up rather confused by the rules. Reverse Battle Royals, Feast Or Fired, or whatever those things were. Those were kind of contrived and dumb.I don't drink Kool Aid. When was the last time WWE or ROH innovated anything? At least TNA is trying. WWE invented the Elimination Chamber and the Beat the Clock Challenge most recently. Elimination Chamber came in 2002 while the BTC Challenge debuted in January 2005. TNA created the Ultimate X Match in 2003, the Lockdown concept in 2005, World's X Cup derived from America's X Cup in 2006, Fight for the Right, King of the Mountain and so much more. While they have created some bad matches they created some instant classics as well.
The only thing they've innovated, if anything as far as matches, is Ultimate X. I love when companies come up with an entirely different type of gimmicked match that makes things fun to watch. It got off to a rough start, because they hadn't perfected the structure.. but yeah. I actually dig the concept. And I enjoyed the one where Kaz did that flippin' awesome diamond cutter on Chris Daniels while he was hanging from the X.
And Lockdown. I like the name of the PPV, I like that they tried to separate the PPV as a concept, but.. It really does overexpose cage matches. I mean you do that PPV and you blow your wad for the rest of the year. I think they'd do a much better service if they used the PPV as an annual Lethal Lockdown match and eliminated making the whole PPV into cage matches. I don't know. I do think the match itself needs to be polished somewhat, though.. because it just feels off when they do it. I can't explain it, really... but I don't care either way on this issue, mainly because it's an original concept that separates that PPV from the others. So good for them.
They really don't. None of those storylines are groundbreaking, innovative or even compelling. These aren't just my own sentiments since I've heard it echoed by other friends who are casual viewers, but.. in WWE and TNA, the storylines come across as being there just solely to exist and fill time, rather than be anything of substance. There's nothing in TNA that would make me say that it's even half as good as years past and I've watched wrestling for a long time. There's nothing as compelling, deep and visceral as the Savage/Roberts storyline. There's no deep, character-driven, exciting storylines going like the whole Austin, Hart Foundation and DX storyline of 1997. There's nothing in there that's as solid as even the lower card angles in WCW, much like Malenko/Jericho or Eddie/Chavo. There's nothing like the nWo, Horseman, or DX either, because the stables are vapid and boring. It's just nothing, really.but now they add more Sports Entertainment storylines which add depth to the product.
If I am a fan of Samoa Joe, Alex Shelley, Christian, Kurt Angle, AJ Styles, Matt Morgan.. where the fuck else am I going to go to watch them? This is the reason some of us criticize TNA, because they're not doing anything substantive with any of the members of their roster.There are plenty of things you can do if you don't like the product. Don't watch it and watch something else.
TNA's fanbase isn't mainstream, because the company itself isn't mainstream. They're casual wrestling fans, not casual fans like those that latched onto wrestling back in the late 90's because it was hot.UFC, WWE, movies or a TV Show. Play videogames instead. TNA has iMPACT for 2 hours a week and there are plenty of people who like it. The majority of the TNA Fanbase is Mainstream with only a small portion as Internet Fans.
I don't give a shit about NET REFERENCES~, and neither does anyone else. They're cute, yeah, but the people who criticize TNA are doing so because they want better fucking programming, why? Because it'll serve the whole company and the workers within all the better.They should cater to the majority and add in Internet References to make you feel special.
They do have a deadline though. That deadline is 2010. WWE's contract with USA comes up in 2010 as does TNA's with Spike TV. And if you don't think that they're going to be negotiating with BOTH stations, then you're dead wrong. If they wind up choosing Spike, then TNA is fucked. Spike will probably go after them hard due to how much the combo of Raw and UFC will add to their network.If Spike TV was really concerned about TNA they would set a deadline.
The fastest growing brand in wrestling? Measuring up against WHO? There's WWE.. and TNA.TNA needs to understand that they need constant growth (they have had that so far) if they want to continue having a partnership with someone like Spike TV. Unless TNA is a dying brand (which they definitely are not since they are still the fastest growing brand in wrestling) they shouldn't even worry about Spike TV not renewing their contract with the network as another network will definitely pick them up.
Damien Reign
Dark Match Jobber
Let me get the negative out of the way, so I can end this portion of my reply on a positive: Fight for the Right was fucking stupid. The whole reverse battle royal, switching around the briefcases ad nauseam, etc. King of the Mountain is another confusing mess of a match. So much so, the casual fans I know of that have seen it wind up rather confused by the rules. Reverse Battle Royals, Feast Or Fired, or whatever those things were. Those were kind of contrived and dumb.
I am going to step in for Talon since he got banned for some reason. I think the main problem you have with these matches isn't that their stupid but they are too complex. I agree that the Reverse Battle Royal didn't make sense yeah. I did enjoy the Feast or Fired thing as it set up three potential title matches for the future (a modified version of Money in the Bank). I can't tell you what to like or what your friends to like. All I can tell you is that I don't get confused by the rules. Maybe it's because guys like Talon and myself could have more intellect than people like you. I am not trying to insult you. I don't understand why some fans don't get the rules of the matches. It could be that they aren't clearly explained or that there is just too much to think about.
The only thing they've innovated, if anything as far as matches, is Ultimate X. I love when companies come up with an entirely different type of gimmicked match that makes things fun to watch. It got off to a rough start, because they hadn't perfected the structure.. but yeah. I actually dig the concept. And I enjoyed the one where Kaz did that flippin' awesome diamond cutter on Chris Daniels while he was hanging from the X.
Just because you don't like something doesn't mean it isn't there. I love Ultimate X as much as the next guy but you can't leave out King of the Mountain. You can't leave out Hangmen's Horror or the Match of 10,000 Tacks. The matches may not be well received by you, but they are there.
And Lockdown. I like the name of the PPV, I like that they tried to separate the PPV as a concept, but.. It really does overexpose cage matches. I mean you do that PPV and you blow your wad for the rest of the year. I think they'd do a much better service if they used the PPV as an annual Lethal Lockdown match and eliminated making the whole PPV into cage matches. I don't know. I do think the match itself needs to be polished somewhat, though.. because it just feels off when they do it. I can't explain it, really... but I don't care either way on this issue, mainly because it's an original concept that separates that PPV from the others. So good for them.
Maybe that is needed. I once again don't understand why people don't like an all-cage PPV. The thing they do to make Lockdown different is that they create different styles of cage matches like Cuffed in the Cage or the Queen of the Cage. These matches can't be done elsewhere.
I think the use of cage matches should only be done at Lockdown and ONCE in between August and December, if at all.
They really don't. None of those storylines are groundbreaking, innovative or even compelling. These aren't just my own sentiments since I've heard it echoed by other friends who are casual viewers, but.. in WWE and TNA, the storylines come across as being there just solely to exist and fill time, rather than be anything of substance. There's nothing in TNA that would make me say that it's even half as good as years past and I've watched wrestling for a long time. There's nothing as compelling, deep and visceral as the Savage/Roberts storyline. There's no deep, character-driven, exciting storylines going like the whole Austin, Hart Foundation and DX storyline of 1997. There's nothing in there that's as solid as even the lower card angles in WCW, much like Malenko/Jericho or Eddie/Chavo. There's nothing like the nWo, Horseman, or DX either, because the stables are vapid and boring. It's just nothing, really.
Storyline-wise, it is hard for a company to be original. What alot of these people are suggesting is that TNA move to a time when all the feuds were pretty much the same. I like storyline depth where they are fighting for different reasons or the characters are thrust into different situations.
I have only been watching since like 1998, and at that time I was watching WCW (who had little storylines). Alot of these storylines are new to me. I think as long as TNA provides storylines or feuds that are much more simple, it would help you guys
If I am a fan of Samoa Joe, Alex Shelley, Christian, Kurt Angle, AJ Styles, Matt Morgan.. where the fuck else am I going to go to watch them? This is the reason some of us criticize TNA, because they're not doing anything substantive with any of the members of their roster.
From what Samoa Joe, Christian Cage, Kurt Angle, AJ Styles and Matt Morgan have said, they are happy with the direction TNA is taking as it is fun for them. Joe has stated that he got bored with his badass character and AJ has said that he likes his new character. Freshening things up for these guys raises their morale. If things stayes the same like they were from 2004-2006, their morale would be lower and they would jump ship. Then TNA wouldn't even have them.
All these guys are different from a year ago. All have progressed. There is change that has been done
TNA's fanbase isn't mainstream, because the company itself isn't mainstream. They're casual wrestling fans, not casual fans like those that latched onto wrestling back in the late 90's because it was hot.
Sorry, casual fans. These fans don't read internet sites all the time. They just watch to enjoy the product, unlike alot of these guys who watch iMPACT and pick it apart or hear rumors from Dave Meltzer that change your opinion on a storyline.
I don't give a shit about NET REFERENCES~, and neither does anyone else. They're cute, yeah, but the people who criticize TNA are doing so because they want better fucking programming, why? Because it'll serve the whole company and the workers within all the better.
Individually, fans are nothing. As a fanbase, they are everything. Internet Fans don't provide the majority opinion that you say they do. Indy Fans may provide the money for PPVs but thats about it.
They do have a deadline though. That deadline is 2010. WWE's contract with USA comes up in 2010 as does TNA's with Spike TV. And if you don't think that they're going to be negotiating with BOTH stations, then you're dead wrong. If they wind up choosing Spike, then TNA is fucked. Spike will probably go after them hard due to how much the combo of Raw and UFC will add to their network.
If you honestly think TNA is going to be the same as it is now in over two years then there is something wrong with you.
There are plenty of other Networks interested in TNA. TNA will land another network if they leave Spike, its a guarantee
The fastest growing brand in wrestling? Measuring up against WHO? There's WWE.. and TNA.
Fastest growing brand in the history of wrestling. In under six years they got a Thursday Night, Primetime, 2 hour TV deal, acquired the best wrestler in the World, became a National Promotion and have begun touring. This and so much more.
I am going to step in for Talon since he got banned for some reason. I think the main problem you have with these matches isn't that their stupid but they are too complex. I agree that the Reverse Battle Royal didn't make sense yeah. I did enjoy the Feast or Fired thing as it set up three potential title matches for the future (a modified version of Money in the Bank). I can't tell you what to like or what your friends to like. All I can tell you is that I don't get confused by the rules. Maybe it's because guys like Talon and myself could have more intellect than people like you. I am not trying to insult you. I don't understand why some fans don't get the rules of the matches. It could be that they aren't clearly explained or that there is just too much to think about.
The only thing they've innovated, if anything as far as matches, is Ultimate X. I love when companies come up with an entirely different type of gimmicked match that makes things fun to watch. It got off to a rough start, because they hadn't perfected the structure.. but yeah. I actually dig the concept. And I enjoyed the one where Kaz did that flippin' awesome diamond cutter on Chris Daniels while he was hanging from the X.
Just because you don't like something doesn't mean it isn't there. I love Ultimate X as much as the next guy but you can't leave out King of the Mountain. You can't leave out Hangmen's Horror or the Match of 10,000 Tacks. The matches may not be well received by you, but they are there.
And Lockdown. I like the name of the PPV, I like that they tried to separate the PPV as a concept, but.. It really does overexpose cage matches. I mean you do that PPV and you blow your wad for the rest of the year. I think they'd do a much better service if they used the PPV as an annual Lethal Lockdown match and eliminated making the whole PPV into cage matches. I don't know. I do think the match itself needs to be polished somewhat, though.. because it just feels off when they do it. I can't explain it, really... but I don't care either way on this issue, mainly because it's an original concept that separates that PPV from the others. So good for them.
Maybe that is needed. I once again don't understand why people don't like an all-cage PPV. The thing they do to make Lockdown different is that they create different styles of cage matches like Cuffed in the Cage or the Queen of the Cage. These matches can't be done elsewhere.
I think the use of cage matches should only be done at Lockdown and ONCE in between August and December, if at all.
They really don't. None of those storylines are groundbreaking, innovative or even compelling. These aren't just my own sentiments since I've heard it echoed by other friends who are casual viewers, but.. in WWE and TNA, the storylines come across as being there just solely to exist and fill time, rather than be anything of substance. There's nothing in TNA that would make me say that it's even half as good as years past and I've watched wrestling for a long time. There's nothing as compelling, deep and visceral as the Savage/Roberts storyline. There's no deep, character-driven, exciting storylines going like the whole Austin, Hart Foundation and DX storyline of 1997. There's nothing in there that's as solid as even the lower card angles in WCW, much like Malenko/Jericho or Eddie/Chavo. There's nothing like the nWo, Horseman, or DX either, because the stables are vapid and boring. It's just nothing, really.
Storyline-wise, it is hard for a company to be original. What alot of these people are suggesting is that TNA move to a time when all the feuds were pretty much the same. I like storyline depth where they are fighting for different reasons or the characters are thrust into different situations.
I have only been watching since like 1998, and at that time I was watching WCW (who had little storylines). Alot of these storylines are new to me. I think as long as TNA provides storylines or feuds that are much more simple, it would help you guys
If I am a fan of Samoa Joe, Alex Shelley, Christian, Kurt Angle, AJ Styles, Matt Morgan.. where the fuck else am I going to go to watch them? This is the reason some of us criticize TNA, because they're not doing anything substantive with any of the members of their roster.
From what Samoa Joe, Christian Cage, Kurt Angle, AJ Styles and Matt Morgan have said, they are happy with the direction TNA is taking as it is fun for them. Joe has stated that he got bored with his badass character and AJ has said that he likes his new character. Freshening things up for these guys raises their morale. If things stayes the same like they were from 2004-2006, their morale would be lower and they would jump ship. Then TNA wouldn't even have them.
All these guys are different from a year ago. All have progressed. There is change that has been done
TNA's fanbase isn't mainstream, because the company itself isn't mainstream. They're casual wrestling fans, not casual fans like those that latched onto wrestling back in the late 90's because it was hot.
Sorry, casual fans. These fans don't read internet sites all the time. They just watch to enjoy the product, unlike alot of these guys who watch iMPACT and pick it apart or hear rumors from Dave Meltzer that change your opinion on a storyline.
I don't give a shit about NET REFERENCES~, and neither does anyone else. They're cute, yeah, but the people who criticize TNA are doing so because they want better fucking programming, why? Because it'll serve the whole company and the workers within all the better.
Individually, fans are nothing. As a fanbase, they are everything. Internet Fans don't provide the majority opinion that you say they do. Indy Fans may provide the money for PPVs but thats about it.
They do have a deadline though. That deadline is 2010. WWE's contract with USA comes up in 2010 as does TNA's with Spike TV. And if you don't think that they're going to be negotiating with BOTH stations, then you're dead wrong. If they wind up choosing Spike, then TNA is fucked. Spike will probably go after them hard due to how much the combo of Raw and UFC will add to their network.
If you honestly think TNA is going to be the same as it is now in over two years then there is something wrong with you.
There are plenty of other Networks interested in TNA. TNA will land another network if they leave Spike, its a guarantee
The fastest growing brand in wrestling? Measuring up against WHO? There's WWE.. and TNA.
Fastest growing brand in the history of wrestling. In under six years they got a Thursday Night, Primetime, 2 hour TV deal, acquired the best wrestler in the World, became a National Promotion and have begun touring. This and so much more.
ianfromlondon
Occasional Pre-Show
ok GLEN GILBERTTI is back writing crap about why we should believe him and what he says..
ok now lets see if im right,he is a part of the tna company right????
so why should we believe anything he writes since he works for the company
of course he is going to lie to make tna seem better than it is just like everyone that wors there so.......
how about you stop crying like a lil bi**h GILBERTTI and just admit your wrong because of course your going to lie to make tna seem better than it is
ok now lets see if im right,he is a part of the tna company right????
so why should we believe anything he writes since he works for the company
of course he is going to lie to make tna seem better than it is just like everyone that wors there so.......
how about you stop crying like a lil bi**h GILBERTTI and just admit your wrong because of course your going to lie to make tna seem better than it is
FoleyIsGod
Hardcore Legend
Fastest growing brand in the history of wrestling. In under six years they got a Thursday Night, Primetime, 2 hour TV deal, acquired the best wrestler in the World, became a National Promotion and have begun touring. This and so much more.
A lot has happened in those 6 years.
Its gone from a true alternate to the WWE to its bastardised clone brother.
If TNA really wants to be classed as an alternative, do stuff that is groundbreaking or can only be seen on TNA. Like Ultimate X for instance.
Be like oldschool ECW if possible. Im not on about the wild brawls and blood, but just be different to the WWE. Before they take TNA's ideas and talent
jimufctna24
Dark Match Winner
am not going to blaim just russo, mantel and jarret are just as much to blaim but ratings have stayed pretty much the same event though they got kurt angle and moved to prime time and there ppv buyrates have gone down as well how can u aquire the best worker in the world and have the best roster in wrestling and not grow in to a credible alternative is unacceptable tna was booked much better when scott damore was booking and that had its moments thanks to jarret having the belt for a million years even though he wasnt marketable or wanted by the fans in the role
Fan of wrestling
Dark Match Jobber
Glen, don't get worked up over him. Audio Slave is likely one of those guys who actually pay for the Wrestling Observer. Did you know the Observer awarded Doug West worst announcer of the year for 2007? Meltzer is really credible.
And Audioslave: Just because you don't like something doesn't mean other people don't like it. Many fans shit on matches like the Queen of the Cage Match or Feast or Fired or matches like that when in reality they make perfect sense.
I am not going to pretend like I know exactly what happens in booking meetings because my knowledge comes from a third party source. What I can say is what I like. I like the current TNA Product. Are there improvements that should be made,yes. Did I like other stuff TNA did in years past, YES.
TNA shouldn't have to cater to internet fans but more to casual fans. Ratings have increased a little since Russo arrived, mostly during the time no transitions were being made. Did you know TNA iMPACT is more popular in Australia than WWE. Look at the ratings, TNA has beaten not only ECW but Smackdown AND Raw as well. Discredit this all you want.
TNA is making a profit. They have added many new shows. Fans are leaving Live Shows happy. TNA is growing my friends. Enjoy the ride or move to the side!
I agree with you on some points. I live in Australia and TNA beat WWE once and that was the first week of the show, so to say TNA is more popular than WWE would be a lie. I like TNA currently, But of course there is room for improvement such as parnters teasing turns on each other every week. It's interesting but when you have 2 in one week it's over kill imo.
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