Vince Russo Dragging TNA Down?

[Audioslave]

"They're doing their best ratings ever!"

Know what's funny? I was right. The writer's strike is over and now they're back to doing those 1.0's they have been averaging over their entire tenure on television. Russo hasn't helped the promotion in any significant manner.

 

[misskim]

Russo isn't dragging TNA down at all, so what if the ratings isn't steadily climbing, imo TNA now has never been better. You guys are doing the EXACT same mistake as the WCW leaders did back when Russo came in, they expected him to come in and BAM ratings jump.

It does *NOT* work like that! Ratings climb after months or maybe years of GOOD steadily solid shows, feuds and stars, not over one night.

In my opinion Russo has been great, I will admit that the main event has been a cluster f*ck the last months and that might have turned people down but the main event is much better now with a good easy feud with Steiner, joe and Angle. But that's not the best thing.

Show of hands, how many here actually GAVE a crap about Shark boy some months ago? I know for sure I referred to him as the jobber of TNA. How many here gave a crap about Petey Williams? I know for sure I didn't.

What about Roxxi Laroux(sp)?Robert Roode? Russo's strength is that he is ableto come up with stuff for EVERYONE to do, and no matter if you LIKE their characters or not he IS putting the younger stars on the map whereas before him they were total nobodies. If TNA's ratings climb that's great but I won't expect it until they have had atleast a year of their current in my opinion awesome shows.

 

[Audioslave]

Russo isn't dragging TNA down at all, so what if the ratings isn't steadily climbing, imo TNA now has never been better. You guys are doing the EXACT same mistake as the WCW leaders did back when Russo came in, they expected him to come in and BAM ratings jump.

It does *NOT* work like that! Ratings climb after months or maybe years of GOOD steadily solid shows, feuds and stars, not over one night.

He's been with the company for A YEAR AND A FUCKING HALF and y'know what? Ratings are RIGHT back to 1.0's at and the buyrates are lower on average than WITHOUT him. He's had more than enough time to change things around and he hasn't done squat.

In my opinion Russo has been great, I will admit that the main event has been a cluster f*ck the last months and that might have turned people down but the main event is much better now with a good easy feud with Steiner, joe and Angle. But that's not the best thing.

You think the Williams/Steiner feud was the best thing they had going, so your opinion on quality has absolutely no merit.

Show of hands, how many here actually GAVE a crap about Shark boy some months ago? I know for sure I referred to him as the jobber of TNA. How many here gave a crap about Petey Williams? I know for sure I didn't.

And know what? People still don't care about Petey Williams.

What about Roxxi Laroux(sp)?Robert Roode? Russo's strength is that he is ableto come up with stuff for EVERYONE to do, and no matter if you LIKE their characters or not he IS putting the younger stars on the map whereas before him they were total nobodies. If TNA's ratings climb that's great but I won't expect it until they have had atleast a year of their current in my opinion awesome shows.

Russo's been booking the company in his style for well over a year and it hasn't made a dent in the ratings whatsoever. Again, like I said, they're back to sticking between 1.0 and 1.1 that they've been doing ever since they went to prime time.

 

[Total Impact]

I don’t know who to blame for TNA not being as good as it could be, but one thing that could be holding them back is doing old WWE gimmicks and storylines. Lets just take a look at the stolen gimmicks & storylines TNA is using right now that was done in the WWE before:

1. Black Machismo: Macho Man Randy Savage
2. “Stone Cold” Shark Boy: Stone Cold Steve Austin
3. SuperEric: The Hurricane/Charlie Hass(Changing outfits in the middle of the match)
4. Kurt/Karen/AJ Love Triangle: Randy/Elizabeth/Hogan in the 80’s and Triple H/Steph/Kurt.
5. Robert Rhoode: J.B.L.
6. Feast or Fired: Money in the Bank

To answer the question of well the fans like it, well TNA wrestles in front of one crowd most of the time and the guys come out of a “Heel” tunnel and a “Face” tunnel so the cheering and booing is not really the fans, but with they have been taught by TNA. I think that if Vince is the overall guy running TNA right now, then he is bringing TNA down with all these stupid WWE storylines done in the past. And Vince Russo was never the man that made the WWE, it was Vince McMahon, because as soon as he left the WWE along with Ed, WCW went down the ole and the WWE got better. Just listen to Bobby Heenan on Russo, he says it like it is, Russo had ideas, but McMahon made them better and everyone thought it was Russo when it was really McMahon who was the genius.

TNA was only good when Dusty Rhodes was booking, as you saw the X-Division seen as a real division, not just a comedy act. Tag Team wrestling was at it best and the overall wrestling product was at it highest and you had happier TNA fans as Dusty pushed the TNA homegrown talent and not all the WWE guys who will never bring TNA ratings as TNA will never get a WWE big name guy like Triple H, Cena or Undertaker, names that really matter.

So if Russo is the guy, he is draggin TNA down, because he is only good as a pitch man on a team, not writing the show, he needs someone to lead him. Hell the man put a company out of business and TNA wants him writing the show, I would understand it was Heyman, because ECW only went out because they lacked money, not because it suck, WCW went out because it sucked at the time it closed.

 

[Slyfox696]

"They're doing their best ratings ever!"

Know what's funny? I was right. The writer's strike is over and now they're back to doing those 1.0's they have been averaging over their entire tenure on television. Russo hasn't helped the promotion in any significant manner.

Their entire tenure on television eh?

Before:

2005
Date Rating
October 4, 2005 0.8
October 11, 2005 0.8
October 18, 2005 0.8
October 25, 2005 0.9
November 3, 2005 0.9
November 12, 2005 0.8
November 19, 2005 0.6
November 26, 2005 0.8
December 4, 2005 0.8
December 8, 2005 0.8
December 17, 2005 0.7
December 24, 2005 0.9
December 31, 2005 0.8

2006
Date Rating
January 7, 2006 0.9
January 14, 2006 0.8
January 21, 2006 0.9
January 28, 2006 1.1
February 4, 2006 0.7
February 11, 2006 0.8
February 18, 2006 0.7
February 25, 2006 0.9
March 4, 2006 0.7
March 11, 2006 0.7
March 18, 2006 0.9
March 25, 2006 0.9
April 1, 2006 0.6
April 8, 2006 1.0
April 13, 2006 1.1
April 20, 2006 0.9
April 27, 2006 0.8
May 4, 2006 0.9
May 11, 2006 1.0
May 18, 2006 1.1
May 25, 2006 1.2
June 1, 2006 1.1
June 8, 2006 1.0
June 15, 2006 0.8
June 22, 2006 1.1
June 29, 2006 1.1
July 6, 2006 1.0
July 13, 2006 0.9
July 20, 2006 0.8
July 27, 2006 0.8
August 2, 2006 0.8
August 9, 2006 ?.?
August 16, 2006 ?.?
August 23, 2006 0.8
August 30, 2006 0.8
September 7, 2006 0.7
September 14, 2006 0.7
September 21, 2006 ?.?
September 28, 2006 0.88
October 5, 2006 0.8
October 12, 2006 0.9
October 19, 2006 0.8
October 26, 2006 0.8
November 2, 2006 0.8
November 9, 2006 ?.?
November 16, 2006 1.0
November 23, 2006 0.9
November 30, 2006 1.0
December 7, 2006 1.0
December 14, 2006 1.2
December 21, 2006 1.1
December 28, 2006 0.9

After:

2007
Date Rating
January 4, 2007 1.1
January 11, 2007 1.1
January 18, 2007 1.1
January 24, 2007 0.8
January 31, 2007 1.0
February 8, 2007 1.1
February 15, 2007 0.6
February 22, 2007 1.0
March 1, 2007 1.1
March 8, 2007 1.0
March 15, 2007 1.1
March 22, 2007 1.0
March 29, 2007 1.0
April 5, 2007 0.9
April 12, 2007 1.1
April 19, 2007 1.1
April 26, 2007 1.0
May 3, 2007 1.0
May 10, 2007 1.0
May 17, 2007 1.0
May 24, 2007 1.0
May 31, 2007 0.9
June 7, 2007 ?.?
June 14, 2007 1.1
June 21, 2007 1.2
June 28, 2007 1.2
July 5, 2007 1.1
July 12, 2007 1.0
July 19, 2007 1.2
July 26, 2007 1.1
August 2, 2007 1.1
August 9, 2007 1.0
August 16, 2007 1.1
August 23, 2007 1.1
August 30, 2007 1.1
September 6, 2007 1.2
September 13, 2007 1.1
September 20, 2007 1.1
September 27, 2007 0.9
October 4, 2007 1.1
October 11, 2007 1.1
October 18, 2007 1.0
October 25, 2007 1.0
November 1, 2007 1.3
November 8, 2007 1.1
November 15, 2007 1.1
November 22, 2007 1.0
November 29, 2007 1.1
December 6, 2007 1.1
December 13, 2007 1.2
December 20, 2007 ?.?
December 27, 2007 1.1
March 6, 2008 1.2

2008
Date Rating
January 3, 2008 1.1
January 10, 2008 1.1
January 17, 2008 1.2
January 24, 2008 1.2
January 31, 2008 1.2
February 7, 2008 1.1
February 14, 2008 1.1
February 21, 2008 1.1
February 28, 2008 1.1
March 6, 2008 1.2
March 13, 2008 1.1
March 20, 2008 1.0
March 27, 2008 1.0
April 3, 2008 1.1
April 10, 2008 1.0



It was April 2006 when TNA got their Thursday night slot. It was October 25, 2006 when Russo joined the staff. Just eyeball the numbers, and you can see a difference. You're wrong. Finally, just because they've had a small lull, doesn't mean ratings won't go back up, especially as the summer season hits. Let's see where ratings go then.

and the buyrates are lower on average than WITHOUT him.

Really? How do you know this? Because TNA has NEVER released buyrates.

You're making stuff up, or you think Meltzer has a clue. One or the other.

He's had more than enough time to change things around and he hasn't done squat.

Maybe that's because he doesn't book the shows? Merely offers creative advice, and then takes the booking of Jarrett and Mantell and puts it into a working script?

You think the Williams/Steiner feud was the best thing they had going, so your opinion on quality has absolutely no merit.

The Petey/Steiner angle was tremendous. If you don't think so, then I'm not so certain you should be providing your opinion on booking.

And know what? People still don't care about Petey Williams.

False. They care so much more about the CHARACTER of Petey Williams, when before they only cared about seeing a Canadian Destroyer.

Russo's been booking the company in his style for well over a year and it hasn't made a dent in the ratings whatsoever.

Probably because he doesn't book. But, I'm sure Meltzer knows better than the President of the company.

3. SuperEric: The Hurricane/Charlie Hass(Changing outfits in the middle of the match)

Superheros were around long before Hurricane/Haas

4. Kurt/Karen/AJ Love Triangle: Randy/Elizabeth/Hogan in the 80’s and Triple H/Steph/Kurt.

You're right. The WWF created love triangles.

5. Robert Rhoode: J.B.L.

Exactly. Because no one has ever had a "money" gimmick before. Wait, what did you say DiBiase?

6. Feast or Fired: Money in the Bank

MITB is just the expansion of a ladder match, a match created before the WWF did it.

To answer the question of well the fans like it, well TNA wrestles in front of one crowd most of the time and the guys come out of a “Heel” tunnel and a “Face” tunnel so the cheering and booing is not really the fans, but with they have been taught by TNA.

Um...how else do you cheer faces and boo heels? The promotion puts one guy as the good guy and the other as the bad. They then write storylines to make the fans cheer good and boo bad.

I think that if Vince is the overall guy running TNA right now,

He's not.

TNA was only good when Dusty Rhodes was booking, as you saw the X-Division seen as a real division, not just a comedy act. Tag Team wrestling was at it best and the overall wrestling product was at it highest and you had happier TNA fans as Dusty pushed the TNA homegrown talent and not all the WWE guys who will never bring TNA ratings as TNA will never get a WWE big name guy like Triple H, Cena or Undertaker, names that really matter.

TNA was atrocious when Dusty was booking. How do I know? Because nobody watched them. They were even worse when D'Amore was booking. Now that it's just Jarrett and Mantell booking, the quality has gotten so much better.

As far as the WWE names into TNA goes, you do realize that's done to accomodate Spike TV, don't you? That they are the ones who constantly push for those names? And that TNA is just doing that to get their TV deal.

Hell the man put a company out of business

Not even CLOSE to being true. You are SOOO off base with that comment.

I would understand it was Heyman, because ECW only went out because they lacked money, not because it suck,

No no, ECW went out of business because of bad booking. If what you book never makes you money, then you're not a good booker. Plain and simple.

 

[Audioslave]

Their entire tenure on television eh?

Note the word: "averaging".

Those ratings that you have are very, very suspect. TNA has never once reached a 1.3 in it's entire existance, nor did they hit a 1.2 up until just this last Holiday season.

It was April 2006 when TNA got their Thursday night slot. It was October 25, 2006 when Russo joined the staff. Just eyeball the numbers, and you can see a difference. You're wrong. Finally, just because they've had a small lull, doesn't mean ratings won't go back up, especially as the summer season hits. Let's see where ratings go then.

Being on at 11 or whatever at night time for that entire first year probably had something to do with those .8's and .9's. Just like acquiring Kurt Angle and moving to prime time on the most watched night of television during the week has to do with the steady 1.0 - 1.1's.

Just like not having any new, first run, fresh opposition programming from NBC, ABC, CBS and Fox has to do with them cracking a 1.2 on two occasions. Fuck, I don't even think the networks were really running much, if any, repeats on Thursday nights either.

Really? How do you know this? Because TNA has NEVER released buyrates.

You're making stuff up, or you think Meltzer has a clue. One or the other.

Meltzer has his sources in the company and probably has sources within the PPV providers as well, so I have no reason not to think he doesn't have a clue.

Maybe that's because he doesn't book the shows? Merely offers creative advice, and then takes the booking of Jarrett and Mantell and puts it into a working script?

It's been said that he is the head booker of the show. And each show, along with gimmicks and so on and so forth go along with his traditional style and blueprint.

The Petey/Steiner angle was tremendous. If you don't think so, then I'm not so certain you should be providing your opinion on booking.

Are you for fucking real?

False. They care so much more about the CHARACTER of Petey Williams, when before they only cared about seeing a Canadian Destroyer.

No one really cared about Petey Williams before or after he had this "character". Just because they give him a gimmick doesn't automatically make anyone care.

Probably because he doesn't book. But, I'm sure Meltzer knows better than the President of the company.

Considering that Jeff's (or Dixie's, I have no idea which you're talking about) credibility is in question when he has absolutely no duty to be honest with stockholders and it's in his best interests to downplay what Russo's input is.. then yeah, I'll believe Meltzer (who has contacts on the inside) over either.

 

[AndySmithers]

Reading what people have to say, and my own thoughts. I say just fire the guy and get few new writers in. I think TNA needs fresh ideas. I think Russo is someone that came up with some great ideas in the past and been riding on them ever since. I don't think he has done anything great lately. But I could be wrong. I like the Petey and Stainer story, maybe he came up with that, but probably not...

 

[Slyfox696]

Note the word: "averaging".

Those ratings that you have are very, very suspect. TNA has never once reached a 1.3 in it's entire existance, nor did they hit a 1.2 up until just this last Holiday season.

Those ratings are rounded, I'm assuming. The 1.3 rating I believe was the number of viewers, a mistake on the sources part.

But, they have done 1.2 ratings before.

Being on at 11 or whatever at night time for that entire first year probably had something to do with those .8's and .9's. Just like acquiring Kurt Angle and moving to prime time on the most watched night of television during the week has to do with the steady 1.0 - 1.1's.

So, then, they have still created new fans.

I mean, just because they are on in a better spot doesn't automatically mean they'll get new fans, especially for a company like TNA. That means that they have still had new fans watch the show.

Meltzer has his sources in the company and probably has sources within the PPV providers as well, so I have no reason not to think he doesn't have a clue.

Meltzer's "sources" have been proven wrong, time and time again. Meltzer doesn't have a clue, he just writes things to get people to buy his Newsletter.

It's been said that he is the head booker of the show.

Yeah, by Meltzer. And that was in direct conflict of what Dixie Carter said.

So, who am I to believe? The President of TNA, or an internet wrestling fan who has been proven wrong time and time again?

Are you for fucking real?

Very much so.

No one really cared about Petey Williams before or after he had this "character". Just because they give him a gimmick doesn't automatically make anyone care.

You're right.

Which means that the fact that people do care about Williams says good things about the angle.

Considering that Jeff's (or Dixie's, I have no idea which you're talking about) credibility is in question when he has absolutely no duty to be honest with stockholders and it's in his best interests to downplay what Russo's input is.. then yeah, I'll believe Meltzer (who has contacts on the inside) over either.

Then you're just trying to justify what is wrong simply because you don't want to admit you're wrong.

I mean, you're taking the word of a guy who has been proven wrong time and time again, over the word of the people who actually run the company. Seriously. That makes absolutely zero sense. Why is it in TNA's best interest to downplay Russo's input? Hell, why would they do that, considering they already had come out and said he was booking before? I mean, why would they admit it then, and not now?

That makes no sense.

 

[AndySmithers]

I like Petey. I cant wait to see what TNA are going to do with him as the new X Devision champ. I was unsure about him before, but I like him now and I am a fan. And I love his finisher!

 

[dirtyshubb]

I loved the whole section where Petey beat Lethal down and won the Title, he cut a great promo and looked ruthless when giving him the CD after stamping on the case with his head in it, Great stuff and cant wait to see where they go with this.

 

[gg inferno]

i haven't been in the forums for awhile now, and i come back and i'm reading the same arguments. FOR THE RECORD FROM A SOURCE FAR MORE RELIABLE THAN MELTZER: Jeff Jarrett is the executive producer of the show. It's his vision we see every week. Russo, Dutch, and others help Jeff produce his vision, with Russo being the actual script writer. I hope that's easy enough for the melzterbots to understand.

ps I just posted a new article calling out the schmucks that post impact reviews on the net, and how stupid they sound to a guy like myself that has far more knowledge of this business than all of them combined.

 

[Slyfox696]

i haven't been in the forums for awhile now, and i come back and i'm reading the same arguments. FOR THE RECORD FROM A SOURCE FAR MORE RELIABLE THAN MELTZER: Jeff Jarrett is the executive producer of the show. It's his vision we see every week. Russo, Dutch, and others help Jeff produce his vision, with Russo being the actual script writer. I hope that's easy enough for the melzterbots to understand.

Yeah, but what do you know, right? You work for TNA, so obviously anything you say in contradiction to Meltzer is false and you simply covering up.

All joking aside, thanks for clearing that up.

ps I just posted a new article calling out the schmucks that post impact reviews on the net, and how stupid they sound to a guy like myself that has far more knowledge of this business than all of them combined.

And a wonderful article it is. I thoroughly enjoyed every word of it.

 

[Talon_DR]

The way I see it, TNA is the evolution of Sports Entertainment, which is the evolution of Pro Wrestling.

Examples: Six Sided Ring is the four sided ring evolved; X Division is the Cruiserweight Division evolved; Six Sides of Steel is the Cage Match evolved; Russo style writing is the evolution of Traditional Writing.

This is the reason in my opinion that so many fans hate TNA. TNA is not what they are used to, its not the company that they grew up watching. Traditional fans question why certain people win or why TNA uses so many gimmick matches. My answer: Because its different.

The difference between Pro Wrestling and Sports Entertainment is simple: Pro Wrestling is an athletic contest with storylines. Sports Entertainment is a show with wrestling. All in all you need both as storylines develop into matches which develop into storylines.

I watch TNA to be entertained. Every week I am entertained. I don't watch TNA for 20 minute wrestling matches (One is enough).

TNA is Wrestling version of a soap opera. The championships aren't superbowl rings, they are prestigious props to represent success and progress storylines (as well as making them more familiar). The wrestlers are performance actors portraying characters. That's how it works. You want pure wrestling, watch ROH. Find a tape on their website (even better now that the results of their HUGE ANNOUNCEMENT that they are 33% off).

Don't like the product, don't watch the product. If you watch then you can express your opinion but understand that all you are doing is helping TNA make decisions by helping the rating.

TNA is different from WWE. There are plenty of crossover fans who like WWE Style Entertainment that will watch TNA Entertainment. TNA offers better wrestling and actual depth to their storylines.

Look at History:
*WWF is the #1 wrestling company in the World. This is the new generation with mostly wrestling and a little storyline. WCW was pretty much pure wrestling with cartoony storylines.
*Then it happened, nWo happened in WCW. nWo was the main storyline in wrestling, WCW started beating WWF in ratings
*WWF had to fight back so they hire Vince Russo who takes them into a direction with EVEN MORE STORYLINES than ever before. WWF fights back and defeated a much better Wrestling Product in WCW

Do us all a favor, open your minds and "Cross the Line"

 

[Marty2Hotty]

i haven't been in the forums for awhile now, and i come back and i'm reading the same arguments. FOR THE RECORD FROM A SOURCE FAR MORE RELIABLE THAN MELTZER: Jeff Jarrett is the executive producer of the show. It's his vision we see every week. Russo, Dutch, and others help Jeff produce his vision, with Russo being the actual script writer. I hope that's easy enough for the melzterbots to understand.

ps I just posted a new article calling out the schmucks that post impact reviews on the net, and how stupid they sound to a guy like myself that has far more knowledge of this business than all of them combined.

i emailed vince/dixie saying you should help out writing and said you have more knowledge about all critics combined..

anyways... as for Jeff Jarrett being the "exec producer".. he's no Vince McMahon i can tell you that. At least McMahon used 95% of Russo's ideas.. If Russo (and Glenn) have a "vision", Jeff Jarrett is probably too chickenshit to think about using his ideas due to the "possible backlash" the internet gets

TNA pays way too much attention to the online critics.. the more they do so... they will never get out of 1.0

the only TWO people employed at TNA that can persuade Jeff otherwise is Vince Russo and glenn Gilberti

The other two that are not employed at TNA are: Mark Madden and Ed Ferrara

 

[Audioslave]

and how stupid they sound to a guy like myself that has far more knowledge of this business than all of them combined.

Just because you have EXPERIENCE in the business doesn't mean that the knowledge you have is worth more than a shit in a cesspool.

Yeah, but what do you know, right? You work for TNA, so obviously anything you say in contradiction to Meltzer is false and you simply covering up.

Yeah, because a person can really be objective when talking about a company that signs their paychecks every week. If it weren't for TNA, Glenn would still be running illegal gambling rings in Bumfuck, Georgia.

And how do you not understand such a simple concept? If you're working for someone and they're signing your paychecks, it becomes a bit harder to be critical of them unless they're treating you like shit. Glenn's safe in his position at TNA, because he's tight with Russo, Jeff and company. So he has absolutely no obligation to be truthful and fess up to Russo being the driving force behind creative, if that is indeed the case. So he's a lot more suspect than Meltzer is, who has the sources inside the company that can speak truthfully and anonymously without fear of losing their jobs.

Not that I want to make this comparison, because one's wrestling and the other is actual important news items. BUT.. there's a similarity between how Meltzer works and how actual journalists in the real world work: If a guy that's working for the current administration talks out about it freely and openly, they could lose their jobs among other things. So they go to journalists and reporters as sources. If I'm not mistaken, from there they crosscheck the viability and validity of this stuff with their OTHER sources and then report the story from there. Meltzer's probably gets info from a bunch of guys in that company. From there, one would assume, he crosschecks it with his other sources and then writes out the news in the observer.

Meltzer, nor reporters in general, are always 100% accurate.. but he's the most reliable guy out there for reporting inside news on the wrestling business and the companies therein.

The way I see it, TNA is the evolution of Sports Entertainment, which is the evolution of Pro Wrestling.

Examples: Six Sided Ring is the four sided ring evolved; X Division is the Cruiserweight Division evolved; Six Sides of Steel is the Cage Match evolved; Russo style writing is the evolution of Traditional Writing.

It's not an evolution of any kind of wrestling. If anything, it's a huge step backwards. Ridiculous gimmicks, stupid concepts (reverse battle royal, the whole Knockout thing just recently, etc), bad storylines, etc. Wrestling gets a bad reputation due to the type of shit that TNA has been pulling lately. And WWE aren't saints in this area either, but they seem to have been trying to tone that stupid shit down somewhat.

The X-Division is an incredibly vague concept (zomg NO LIMITS!~) that they should probably abandon, since they killed every single little thing that got it over in those first four or so years of TNA's existence. Gone are the action-packed matches with minimal storylines and now it's replaced with ridiculous gimmicks and nonsensical storylines (see Dudleys/Devine versus MCMGs/Lethal with the belt-swapping bullshit).

And Russo's writing isn't the evolution of Traditional wrestling. It's a bastardization of it. And Russo gets way too much credit. Heyman was booking Attitude-style before Russo was even a hack writer in WWF's magazine. In Russo's specific style of wrestling, the actual in ring stuff is given very little emphasis and there's more importance based on convoluted soap opera type of storylines that tend to lack continuity or sense. Title credibility, actual in-ring action, different styles of wrestling, etc. None of that is given any respect.

The actual evolution of professional wrestling is some compromise between NWO-era WCW, WWF 2000 and ECW. However there is none of that to be seen on today's wrestling television, because TNA is just a bunch of ridiculous ADD bullshit (for the most part) and WWE settled into a formula that has been working for them the past three years and is making them a boatload of money. Their ratings might not be what they were, but they pretty much always get between 3.0 and 4.0 and probably don't feel the need to shake things up at the moment.

And it's really weird how each and every one of you TNA supporters espouse the same type of taste in the kind of programming that gives wrestling a bad name.

 

[Father:_Polley]

i emailed vince/dixie saying you should help out writing and said you have more knowledge about all critics combined..

anyways... as for Jeff Jarrett being the "exec producer".. he's no Vince McMahon i can tell you that. At least McMahon used 95% of Russo's ideas.. If Russo (and Glenn) have a "vision", Jeff Jarrett is probably too chickenshit to think about using his ideas due to the "possible backlash" the internet gets

TNA pays way too much attention to the online critics.. the more they do so... they will never get out of 1.0

the only TWO people employed at TNA that can persuade Jeff otherwise is Vince Russo and glenn Gilberti

The other two that are not employed at TNA are: Mark Madden and Ed Ferrara

Vince mcmahon had a leprechaun illegitimate son for a while. I can't believe i'm saying this, but i prefer sharkboy to a leprechaun. and what are you complaining about marty, it's JJ who gives the goahead on all your favourite gimmicks.

and i've said this before, do you really think TNA goes with what the internet wants marty? Because really, there's not much point if non-internet viewers want to see something different. and correct me if i'm wrong, but haven't russo and ferrera not worked together since they lost booking of WCW because of a disagreement?

As for the topic of the post... Vince Russo, some of his ideas can be good, some can be crap. but if it sells, i suppose it works for business, even if I as a fan despise it.

 

[Marty2Hotty]

Vince mcmahon had a leprechaun illegitimate son for a while. I can't believe i'm saying this, but i prefer sharkboy to a leprechaun. and what are you complaining about marty, it's JJ who gives the goahead on all your favourite gimmicks.

and i've said this before, do you really think TNA goes with what the internet wants marty? Because really, there's not much point if non-internet viewers want to see something different. and correct me if i'm wrong, but haven't russo and ferrera not worked together since they lost booking of WCW because of a disagreement?

As for the topic of the post... Vince Russo, some of his ideas can be good, some can be crap. but if it sells, i suppose it works for business, even if I as a fan despise it.

i haven't watched wwe, but i do read about leprachauns and believe wwe has one.. i dont really care for wwe.

JJ does approve "some" Russo-esque segments.. but the overall direction for TNA is very tame. Although there are some entertaining moments, I dont think it's enough to grow a new audience at this time. I did say the shows were "incredible' for like 3 straight months during late 2007-early 2008.

The shows are very predictable wrestling shows with no edgy dialogue, action, segments that draw the viewers in. Best of Raw Vol 1 was awesome because the fans were HOT for everything that went on. The same emotion/passion doesn't really exist nowadays. Russo has the talent to really make the shows insanely awesome.. Gilbertti's input won't hurt either.. But I feel as though JJ is NOT a Vince McMahon and doesn't have the balls to push the envelope like McMahon did. JJ (and possibly Dixie - not her fault as she's new to the business) pays WAY too much attention to the net

Gilberti/Russo need to explain this shit to JJ. the irony is JJ was a part of the boom that was the attitude era, and it's a shame that he doesn't get it enough to make the shows crazy for 2008/spike

Polly.. i dont think TNA gives "everything" that the net wants. If they did, it'd be RoH. But all the predictable "i hate you, i want the belt" angles are very catered to the net.

I'll correct you on Vince/Ed. They did have differences but they reconciled.. and Ed even wrote the foreward to Vince's book. They also did a DVD together entitled "Ultimate Insiders" in 2005 that chronicled their times in WWF, WCW, TNA

Yeah, some of the stuff in WWF were crazy.. yamaguchi san. Val Venis, a pornstar, sleeping with yamaguchi's wife. He then cut a sausage and threatened to cut off Val's peepee. The fans were into all the edgyness, the characters, Austin's language, humour and asskicking.. The raunchy Sable stuff with Mero, The "dark" drama that was Undertaker/Kane, the evil boss that was McMahon.

This was just his WWF run. I loved his WCW run(s) as well.. but I don't want to get into another argument about Arquette, Tank, Russo, New Blood as this has been exhausted in probably 50000 threads already.

Bottom line.. Russo and Glenn need to talk Jeff into RECREATING this business in terms of entertainment and they need to stop listening to guys on the net who love to rate matches with a star rating.

Hell, bring in Madden and Ferrara. ALso bring in The Cat and Buff Bagwell (if they want to)

 

[Father:_Polley]

i can't help but think you're serious about buff bagwell. to be fair, it just made me laugh and ruined what i thought was a decent post. TNA's roster is fine. they've the mix of names and new talent to build upon

JJ approves some angles, probably because he thinks the others are awful. You'll probably disagree, but the booking you mentioned above with Tank Abbott cost Russo his job for a while it was so badly received, and Arquette was a joke. But anyway, enough about those. It's his job, his project, to make sure TNA doesn't put out ridiculous storylines and VR has been responsible for some doozies. Granted, so has every other booker and some of the garbage still reaches the screen

the thing about the hatred storyline is, that it's always been there, it's believable. If you don't like someone, you're naturally going to try to outcompete them. it may be an old gimmick, but you need to cater to all audiences. TNA's not stupid...it knows that if there's no realistic, believable storylines, fans who watch to see the action won't bother - Drop in ratings. At the same time, if there's no lighter threads, it becomes too serious and so people like EY need a spot on the roster to keep the casual fan who watches because it's bright and flashy (or you who watches for the comedy) entertained.

you have to see dude, there needs to be a balance between the serious and the light-hearted, otherwise you lose some of your audience, and appreciate that there will always be things you dont like. i still watch TNA despite hating some angles on at the minute

 

[Slyfox696]

Just because you have EXPERIENCE in the business doesn't mean that the knowledge you have is worth more than a shit in a cesspool.

It does mean that he works in TNA and thus probably knows better than Meltzer, who relies on second and third-hand information, about who is responsible for what you see on TV.

Yeah, because a person can really be objective when talking about a company that signs their paychecks every week. If it weren't for TNA, Glenn would still be running illegal gambling rings in Bumfuck, Georgia.

What does that have to do with the fact that both Gilbertti and Dixie Carter has said that Jarrett is the one responsible for what you see on TV?

You're telling me that Meltzer is more informed than the two of them? The fact you are resorting to calling them liars in favor of relying on a two-bit hack who has no credibility with the majority of the wrestling industry, shows just how desperate you are to paint Russo in a negative light.

And how do you not understand such a simple concept? If you're working for someone and they're signing your paychecks, it becomes a bit harder to be critical of them unless they're treating you like shit. Glenn's safe in his position at TNA, because he's tight with Russo, Jeff and company. So he has absolutely no obligation to be truthful and fess up to Russo being the driving force behind creative, if that is indeed the case. So he's a lot more suspect than Meltzer is, who has the sources inside the company that can speak truthfully and anonymously without fear of losing their jobs.

I love how you take the word of someone who relies on second and third hand information, who's sole motivation is to sell newsletters, over the people in the company who actually WORK for the company.

Especially considering TNA has already said that Russo was helping book before back in 2004. Didn't seem to bother them then to admit it. But, suddenly, now it does. You don't make sense.

Meltzer's probably gets info from a bunch of guys in that company. From there, one would assume, he crosschecks it with his other sources and then writes out the news in the observer.

AAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

The Wrestling Observer Newsletter is little more than wrestling's version of the National Inquirer. He's not this epitome of journalistic integrity that you are making him out to be.

I swear, you are the first diehard Dave Meltzer mark I've ever debated with.

Meltzer, nor reporters in general, are always 100% accurate.. but he's the most reliable guy out there for reporting inside news on the wrestling business and the companies therein.

Except that he's usually not accurate. That's the point.

 

[The Great Khali]

He's been dragging them down ever since he started working for the company,he's dead weight from a fondly remembered Attitude era that can't be resurrected.

TNA need to realise that imitating the WWE doesn't do them any favors,what they ought to be doing is concentrating on what they do which distinguishes them from the WWE and making that the focus point.

 

[gg inferno]

Just because you have EXPERIENCE in the business doesn't mean that the knowledge you have is worth more than a shit in a cesspool.


Yeah, because a person can really be objective when talking about a company that signs their paychecks every week. If it weren't for TNA, Glenn would still be running illegal gambling rings in Bumfuck, Georgia.

And how do you not understand such a simple concept? If you're working for someone and they're signing your paychecks, it becomes a bit harder to be critical of them unless they're treating you like shit. Glenn's safe in his position at TNA, because he's tight with Russo, Jeff and company. So he has absolutely no obligation to be truthful and fess up to Russo being the driving force behind creative, if that is indeed the case. So he's a lot more suspect than Meltzer is, who has the sources inside the company that can speak truthfully and anonymously without fear of losing their jobs.

Not that I want to make this comparison, because one's wrestling and the other is actual important news items. BUT.. there's a similarity between how Meltzer works and how actual journalists in the real world work: If a guy that's working for the current administration talks out about it freely and openly, they could lose their jobs among other things. So they go to journalists and reporters as sources. If I'm not mistaken, from there they crosscheck the viability and validity of this stuff with their OTHER sources and then report the story from there. Meltzer's probably gets info from a bunch of guys in that company. From there, one would assume, he crosschecks it with his other sources and then writes out the news in the observer.

Meltzer, nor reporters in general, are always 100% accurate.. but he's the most reliable guy out there for reporting inside news on the wrestling business and the companies therein.


It's not an evolution of any kind of wrestling. If anything, it's a huge step backwards. Ridiculous gimmicks, stupid concepts (reverse battle royal, the whole Knockout thing just recently, etc), bad storylines, etc. Wrestling gets a bad reputation due to the type of shit that TNA has been pulling lately. And WWE aren't saints in this area either, but they seem to have been trying to tone that stupid shit down somewhat.

The X-Division is an incredibly vague concept (zomg NO LIMITS!~) that they should probably abandon, since they killed every single little thing that got it over in those first four or so years of TNA's existence. Gone are the action-packed matches with minimal storylines and now it's replaced with ridiculous gimmicks and nonsensical storylines (see Dudleys/Devine versus MCMGs/Lethal with the belt-swapping bullshit).

And Russo's writing isn't the evolution of Traditional wrestling. It's a bastardization of it. And Russo gets way too much credit. Heyman was booking Attitude-style before Russo was even a hack writer in WWF's magazine. In Russo's specific style of wrestling, the actual in ring stuff is given very little emphasis and there's more importance based on convoluted soap opera type of storylines that tend to lack continuity or sense. Title credibility, actual in-ring action, different styles of wrestling, etc. None of that is given any respect.

The actual evolution of professional wrestling is some compromise between NWO-era WCW, WWF 2000 and ECW. However there is none of that to be seen on today's wrestling television, because TNA is just a bunch of ridiculous ADD bullshit (for the most part) and WWE settled into a formula that has been working for them the past three years and is making them a boatload of money. Their ratings might not be what they were, but they pretty much always get between 3.0 and 4.0 and probably don't feel the need to shake things up at the moment.

And it's really weird how each and every one of you TNA supporters espouse the same type of taste in the kind of programming that gives wrestling a bad name.

lol. i get it now. you've been subscribing to meltzer's sheet for years, so you feel compelled to defend the fact that you've been wasting all the money you've spent on it. that's understandable. but let's examine your idiotic statement that because i have experience in this business that it doesn't mean shit in a cesspool. i imagine if a pro athelete were to talk about his sport then you would just discount it that just because he plays he doesn't know anything. digest for a moment how really unintelligent you sound.
Two people go to see a movie. A and B. C hears about the movie from B, but didn't see it. D hears about it from C, but didn't see it. E hears about it from D, but didn't see it. You're the type of moron that would judge the movie based on the reviews from C, D, and E before you'd listen to A.
I have no reason to lie about anything i write. I could be the biggest stooge on the internet and come in here and tell you everything that goes on in tna, but i don't think alot of the stuff is anybody's business, hence my distaste for internet reporting. however, every now and then i'll come in to the forums and correct faulty reporting, and imbeciles like you will try to discredit me. go ahead and believe dave meltzer. he gets paid to provide CONTENT, no matter how true or UNTRUE it is. you read it, he gets paid. do you think he actually cares if it's true or not? why should he? he's getting your dollar regardless, and has you thinking he knows what he's talking about. the funny thing is, you'll take his words and use them and try to challenge myself, when the reality is that my knowledge is infinitely superior to yours on the subject matter. seriously, if we took our arguments to a court of law you'd probably be given the death penalty for being so stupid to think you can actually challenge my credibility and win. i get paid by this site to write an article each week and every now and then attend message board discussion. period. i don't get paid to lie. i've been offered to get paid to stooge before, and have respectfully declined. guys like you are the sole reason that the internet hurts the business, because you can't think for yourselves, and because you're a follower, and you are inclined to believe everything that you read that you pay for. boy, is that just plain 'ol dumb. you should just sit in front of the tv each week with your diaper and your dunce cap and suck your thumb while you watch the shows, because that's about how highly i think of your opinions.

 

[maddawg]

I don't care how many excuses you provide, how many damn numbers you pull out of your magician's hat, or how many hairs are on Glenn Gilbertti's ass. I don't like the storylines in TNA, plain and simple. I don't know if it's Russo's fault. I couldn't tell you if Vince Russo writes the whole script, if Jeff Jarrett is the executive producer, or if Glenn Gilbertti is the pivot man. I don't need to know all that behind the scenes bullshit. All I know is the bucket of gold that they are trying to sell me smells and looks more like a bucket of shit. The talent is definately there in TNA, but it's not utilized to its total ability. If TNA were clicking on all cylinders it would be a damn good show.

 

[Talon_DR]

lol. i get it now. you've been subscribing to meltzer's sheet for years, so you feel compelled to defend the fact that you've been wasting all the money you've spent on it. that's understandable. but let's examine your idiotic statement that because i have experience in this business that it doesn't mean shit in a cesspool. i imagine if a pro athelete were to talk about his sport then you would just discount it that just because he plays he doesn't know anything. digest for a moment how really unintelligent you sound.
Two people go to see a movie. A and B. C hears about the movie from B, but didn't see it. D hears about it from C, but didn't see it. E hears about it from D, but didn't see it. You're the type of moron that would judge the movie based on the reviews from C, D, and E before you'd listen to A.
I have no reason to lie about anything i write. I could be the biggest stooge on the internet and come in here and tell you everything that goes on in tna, but i don't think alot of the stuff is anybody's business, hence my distaste for internet reporting. however, every now and then i'll come in to the forums and correct faulty reporting, and imbeciles like you will try to discredit me. go ahead and believe dave meltzer. he gets paid to provide CONTENT, no matter how true or UNTRUE it is. you read it, he gets paid. do you think he actually cares if it's true or not? why should he? he's getting your dollar regardless, and has you thinking he knows what he's talking about. the funny thing is, you'll take his words and use them and try to challenge myself, when the reality is that my knowledge is infinitely superior to yours on the subject matter. seriously, if we took our arguments to a court of law you'd probably be given the death penalty for being so stupid to think you can actually challenge my credibility and win. i get paid by this site to write an article each week and every now and then attend message board discussion. period. i don't get paid to lie. i've been offered to get paid to stooge before, and have respectfully declined. guys like you are the sole reason that the internet hurts the business, because you can't think for yourselves, and because you're a follower, and you are inclined to believe everything that you read that you pay for. boy, is that just plain 'ol dumb. you should just sit in front of the tv each week with your diaper and your dunce cap and suck your thumb while you watch the shows, because that's about how highly i think of your opinions.

Glen, don't get worked up over him. Audio Slave is likely one of those guys who actually pay for the Wrestling Observer. Did you know the Observer awarded Doug West worst announcer of the year for 2007? Meltzer is really credible.

And Audioslave: Just because you don't like something doesn't mean other people don't like it. Many fans shit on matches like the Queen of the Cage Match or Feast or Fired or matches like that when in reality they make perfect sense.

I am not going to pretend like I know exactly what happens in booking meetings because my knowledge comes from a third party source. What I can say is what I like. I like the current TNA Product. Are there improvements that should be made,yes. Did I like other stuff TNA did in years past, YES.

TNA shouldn't have to cater to internet fans but more to casual fans. Ratings have increased a little since Russo arrived, mostly during the time no transitions were being made. Did you know TNA iMPACT is more popular in Australia than WWE. Look at the ratings, TNA has beaten not only ECW but Smackdown AND Raw as well. Discredit this all you want.

TNA is making a profit. They have added many new shows. Fans are leaving Live Shows happy. TNA is growing my friends. Enjoy the ride or move to the side!

 

[finney_com]

You know, this is the first time I have gotten on Gilberti's thread so I usually don't mess with chat rooms b/c usually I have found that there are alot of blow hards that think they can fix the state of wrestling or that they know what the hell they could have done to fix wrestling in the past. Here's what I know: WCW was waaay on it's way out before Russo came along. I am a 29 year old man and I have been a wrestling fan since about 87. I have always been a fan of WWF/E even during the mid-90's "dumb" gimmick era. I always thought that WCW/NWA (80's WCW) was just a cheaper version of wrestling. It just looked cheap, I always thought. Sure, the NWO stuff was kinda cool, but still the announcing was horrible, sans Bobby Heenan. (Always loved the Brain) I remember when I first joined my fraternity back in '97, there were some guys who were wrestling fans, WCW wrestling fans, mind you. They thought WWF was stupid and didn't really care for it. But I always stuck by them and to this day, they will tell you, I never bailed on them. The writing was on the wall. Russo was just the icing on the cake. I dont even need to go into the whole Arquette thing b/c that would be just wasting good space. It boils down to bad decisions, bad storylines, bad gimmicks, and a slew of suits that just didn't know what wrestling was. Period.

As far as TNA goes, great performers, horrible writing. If Jarrett is the one writing that shit, he needs to give it up and get back in the ring. I have not witnessed a wrestling show since WCW (2000 era) when I can turn on the t.v. one week and turn onthe t.v. the next week, and NOT know what the hell is going on. I tuned in a month or so ago and saw Christian and Rhyno going at each other. A week or so later, Rhyno was on Team Cage. WHAT??

Don't get me started on Kurt Angle. "Oh, I was working too much in WWE, Vince didn't respect my personal time!" Cry me a fucking river!! That's what you signed up for dipshit!! If you can't take the pressure, move to a wrestling show that will never compete. Oh, wait a minute, you did! I rate him right up there with Brock Lesnar. Lesnar was pushed like he was the second Hogan and what does he do? Leaves the company to pursue the NFL! FAILURE! "Well, I will try UFC! FAILURE! Please, how many guys would love to get the chance that Lesnar got or how many guys would give their nutsack to get to be in the spot Angle had?

Dont get me wrong, I have never been a pro-wrestler. But I damn sure know what is entertaining and can usually spot a good storyline or a break-out performer. I love wrestling and always will.

So, as a 20+ year fan let me spell it out for anyone who gives a damn: WCW was dead long before Russo. TNA will never compete with WWE due to horrible writing (and a six-sided ring. BUt that's another discussion for another time. Why do some company's think they can change something like the ring that will never be the norm. That's just stupid!) Jarrett, if you are writing that crap, then you need to give it up. You already have one of TNA's feet already in the ground!!

 

[Marty2Hotty]

audioslave.. do you really pay for meltzer's newsletter? if you do, i understand that you dont want to believe that you wasted all that money on bullshit news

As for TNA, Vince Russo and company need to think of a huge angle and make sure every week's programming gets people talking, like the attitude era did. TNA doesn't really create a buzz with their tame, safe wrestling shows. Sometimes TNA is entertaining, but they have to consistently deliver a great product that gets people talking. WWE obviously is boring bullshit...