Video Games Tourney hype thread
- Thread starter Lee
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Oh gods... seriously? Look, I don't want to dial my intellectual snobbery meter up any higher than necessary, but if you are going to call one of the most influential movies of all time "over-rated" whilst lauding Avatar as one of the best movies of it's generation then it is going to be very difficult for me to take you seriously.
I will never understand why the low brow audience insist on trying to denounce Citizen Kane, all they ever accomplish is making clear to the world that they don't understand what they are talking about. Sure, it doesn't have explosions, tits or expensive special effects which is apparently what you think represents quality in film-making, but that doesn't stop it being one of the most important, and one of the best, movies ever produced.
The American Film Institute, just about the biggest collection of people who know what they're talking about on the face of the planet have ranked Citizen Kane as the greatest movie ever produced on two separate occasions, a decade apart. Survey film critics (actual film critics - not ones who write for Nutz magazine) and Citizen Kane will come out time and time again as the number one film of all time. It has a 100% rating on Rotten Tomatoes making it one of the most critically successful films ever produced. It has also held up both commercially and as a work of genius for around seventy years... care to name some other films that have had the quality to last that long?
You seriously think we'll be talking about Avatar in sixty years time? Given that it's a unoriginal film that was completely dependent on its special effects in an era where special effects are advancing all the time I find it unlikely.
The critics think that Citizen Kane is one of the greatest films ever made.
The people in the industry think it is one of the greatest films ever made.
The general public think it is one of the greatest films ever made.
Not liking Citizen Kane is fine... but calling it overrated make you look like an idiot. Sorry, there's no nicer way of phrasing that.
Gods... where to start on the ignorant crap.
1) Try reading my post again, because I don't think you've properly understood it.
2) Tetris is not boring. Boring games do not sell 170,000,000 copies and survive multiple generations. Boring games do not regularly get branded the greatest game of all time.
3) Arguing that modern games are superior because they're on superior machines is one of the dumber things you've come out with. It also renders you something of a hypocrite given that you originally entered this discussion to criticize people for voting based on time period alone. Now you are suggesting to do exactly the same thing, just in the other direction. If newer = better for you then you're pretty much a lost cause when it comes to debate.
I'll explain this very simply. I already explained it once before but you missed it.
This tournament asks for the greatest game OF ALL TIME.
Exactly which time should they be good for? Your argument is so laughably counterproductive. By your logic this contest should contain only games produced for the current console generation, after-all, nothing pre Xbox 360 can hold up on a technical level. Hell, your logic renders any argument made for a game like Goldeneye, Mario 64, Ocarina of Time or Final Fantasy VII ******ed. I hope you're willing to practice what you preach when voting comes around.
Now I suspect I'm done with you. Your voting criteria is far more slanted than that of the people you originally tried to call out. It's quite apparent that you aren't actually interested in the merits of a reasoned debate and will just vote for your personal favorite every time, and at the end of the day... you think Citizen Kane is an overrated movie. There's just no reasoning with people like that.
Yeah, it wouldn't be like you to up your snobbery meter...
Anyway,
I find it actually offensive to me that I cannot have an opinion on anything without you saying that I am low-brow or anything else you care to throw at me. Here's the thing, I am not saying that it is boring because it doesn't have an explosion every 20 seconds. I have watched my fair share of movies that have been slow paced more intellectually balanced than Avatar. What I am saying is that I think Citizen Kane is over-rated and that is my right. I have watched the first 40 minutes of it and absolutely detested it. Then again, it seems as though I must be kinda stupid, huh? I mean, if I can't keep up with the plot and find it to be horribly over-rated, then I also live in a trailer park and sleep with my sister, right? Get a grip.
Oh no! The AFI have said that Citizen Kane is the best film of all time. Yet, I didn't see one person nominate it for a Zonie award in the other thread. Could it be that it is over-rated by people who review it after all? I know plenty of people that will denounce The Godfather and that movie has been critically loved since the very first moment it was released. You have no right to tell people what to judge a movie (of a game for that matter) on, so drop the pretentious nature of your posts.
Critics think that Citizen Kane is a good movie? Good for them
The general public think it is a good movie? I beg to differ. And even if they do, you don't hear of an awful lot of people who would list it as their favourite movie of all time.
And since I can judge a movie by myself, I can decide if it over-rated or not. Sorry but you trying to dictate to me makes you sound like an idiot.
I'd rather not read your posts again. It makes me angry to think that someone thinks they are better than me because of their choice of film. So, I am going to just read it the once.
Boring games most certainly do sell 70 million games, simply because Tetris has done it. Listen, I do not need to do the work when liking a game. Yes, I will go a certain amount of the way but if a game is literally about dropping and rotating blocks, then there is no way that I am going to like it. Here's a question, if Tetris was released now and had no releases beforehand, do you think it would sell 70,000,000 copies? I fucking think not.
I'm not arguing that ALL modern games are better than older ones. I still love playing Mario and Alex The Kid. Hell, eve Double Dragon gives me a lot of entertainment. Please don't think that you can twist my words against me like you would with some ****** in the TNA section. I like some games that were made more than 15 years ago just fine. But they have to be judged the exact same way as you would judge a game now-a-days if this tournament is to be fair. Never once did I say that I enjoy ALL new games over Mario. If you can find where I said for a fact that every single older game pales in comparison to any newer one, then go ahead and show me.
My argument is nothing like that. I find it funny that you think that I should read and comprehend your posts better and then pick and choose parts of mine that you can twist to suit yourself. I am not blind, I can see that games like Mario and Tetris have had a huge impact on the market and I am willing to judge them on that criteria. However, I will also be marking them on a criteria for enjoyment and Tetris and Pac-Man just don't cut it. Sorry but you have no say over that whatsoever.
As technology advances and games become much more immersive and entertaining, is it any wonder that games from 30 years ago are being pushed to the back-burners of people's minds? No, it's not. You are so stuck on me supposedly saying that ALL games made over 10 years are bad and that is just not what I am saying whatsoever. I will vote for plenty of older games. When I came into this thread, I was just warning some people that ALL OLDER GAMES ARE NOT BETTER THAN NEWER ONES. I don't subscribe to the opinion that ALL NEWER ONES ARE BETTER THAN OLDER ONES. What I am saying is that on a typical basis, they are much more entertaining in my opinion. I hope I have said my point enough that you have managed to comprehend it.
Your little slights against me are ridiculous. I call you out, have a reasonable debate with you and then you cut it off. How immature are you?
Well apparently me getting bored of the discussion has led to sulking, so I'll throw down for another round.
This is one of the most hypocritical statements I have ever encountered on this forum.
You start giving the classic "I am entitled to my own opinions" speech that everyone gives when they want to steer a debate away from a discussion of the facts, and then in the same breath declare a movie "over-rated".
Now normally I'd write this off as you simply misunderstanding the nature of something being over-rated, but since making assumption as to your intellect apparently annoys you I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and simply assume hypocrisy.
You say the film is over-rated... as in people rate it too highly. Given that you call it a horrible movie it's quite clear that you are talking about other people. In other words, other people are wrong when they call Citizen Kane a great film. How exactly is that not infringing on their God given rights in exactly the same way as you've just been lambasting me for?
And here we get to the rout of your problem (aside from being temperamental and hypocritical). You don't seem to have mastered the art of drawing a line between a personal preference and an objective statement.
You can dislike Citizen Kane. That's your right and nobody on the entire planet could give a shit. What you can't do is say that it's a bad film or that it's over rated, because it's not. It's commercial success, critical acclaim, unparalleled influence and mind blowing longevity prove that it is not. A person doesn't even have to have watched the blasted movie to work that out. Personal preference is totally fine, as long as you can get a handle on how much the rest of the world cares.
Don't enjoy Citizen Kane - good for you.
Think Citizen Kane is a bad film - you're ignorant.
You know those people we all hate. The ones who insist that John Cena is a bad wrestler because he's boring and only knows five moves? The ones who fly in the face of any kind of objective fact?
That's you.
That's exactly what you're doing here, to the letter.
So why did Tetris sell 170,000,000 copies?
Why did that many people willingly pay money for something that was going to bore them? Were they just all stupid or did they not know what Tetris was when they purchased it?
And because you don't like something that makes it boring. I may be an intellectual snob, but at least I don't try to pass of my minor whims as some kind of objective truth.
If Gears of War was released forty years in the future with no prior releases do you not think it would get laughed at? I fail to see your point.
That's a horrible way to refer to KB. He's a very good poster who actually debates with logic and reason as opposed to repeating "My opinion, my opinion" over and over again with his fingers in his ears.
Except you're not judging them by the same standard. You're being a hypocrite again.
There is absolutely no way in which the older Double Dragon games hold up when subjected to modern analysis. Graphics - Terrible. Sound - Terrible. Gameplay - Improved on every level.
You make the argument that nobody would buy Tetris if it was released today... how does EXACTLY THE SAME ARGUMENT not smack Double Dragon out of the water as well. Is there any chance of consistency from you in any area of this debate?
Sure.
There you go.
A modern game is superior to an old game because it is on a superior system and has superior technology at it's disposal. Now at the time I was working under the assumption that you weren't a hypocrite, and as such the only logical way to take that argument was as something that applied to every single modern game over every single classic.
Now in reality it's probably just an argument you want to pick and choose to try and justify your preferences, and as such is not something I have to care about any more.
And as such there is no point in anybody engaging you on any level at any point during this tournament. You've already made your mind up. That's why I was pulling out after my previous post. Reason and debate don't interest you, and as such you don't interest me.
Tootles.
This is one of the most hypocritical statements I have ever encountered on this forum.
You start giving the classic "I am entitled to my own opinions" speech that everyone gives when they want to steer a debate away from a discussion of the facts, and then in the same breath declare a movie "over-rated".
Now normally I'd write this off as you simply misunderstanding the nature of something being over-rated, but since making assumption as to your intellect apparently annoys you I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and simply assume hypocrisy.
You say the film is over-rated... as in people rate it too highly. Given that you call it a horrible movie it's quite clear that you are talking about other people. In other words, other people are wrong when they call Citizen Kane a great film. How exactly is that not infringing on their God given rights in exactly the same way as you've just been lambasting me for?
And here we get to the rout of your problem (aside from being temperamental and hypocritical). You don't seem to have mastered the art of drawing a line between a personal preference and an objective statement.
You can dislike Citizen Kane. That's your right and nobody on the entire planet could give a shit. What you can't do is say that it's a bad film or that it's over rated, because it's not. It's commercial success, critical acclaim, unparalleled influence and mind blowing longevity prove that it is not. A person doesn't even have to have watched the blasted movie to work that out. Personal preference is totally fine, as long as you can get a handle on how much the rest of the world cares.
Don't enjoy Citizen Kane - good for you.
Think Citizen Kane is a bad film - you're ignorant.
You know those people we all hate. The ones who insist that John Cena is a bad wrestler because he's boring and only knows five moves? The ones who fly in the face of any kind of objective fact?
That's you.
That's exactly what you're doing here, to the letter.
So why did Tetris sell 170,000,000 copies?
Why did that many people willingly pay money for something that was going to bore them? Were they just all stupid or did they not know what Tetris was when they purchased it?
And because you don't like something that makes it boring. I may be an intellectual snob, but at least I don't try to pass of my minor whims as some kind of objective truth.
If Gears of War was released forty years in the future with no prior releases do you not think it would get laughed at? I fail to see your point.
That's a horrible way to refer to KB. He's a very good poster who actually debates with logic and reason as opposed to repeating "My opinion, my opinion" over and over again with his fingers in his ears.
Except you're not judging them by the same standard. You're being a hypocrite again.
There is absolutely no way in which the older Double Dragon games hold up when subjected to modern analysis. Graphics - Terrible. Sound - Terrible. Gameplay - Improved on every level.
You make the argument that nobody would buy Tetris if it was released today... how does EXACTLY THE SAME ARGUMENT not smack Double Dragon out of the water as well. Is there any chance of consistency from you in any area of this debate?
Sure.
There you go.
A modern game is superior to an old game because it is on a superior system and has superior technology at it's disposal. Now at the time I was working under the assumption that you weren't a hypocrite, and as such the only logical way to take that argument was as something that applied to every single modern game over every single classic.
Now in reality it's probably just an argument you want to pick and choose to try and justify your preferences, and as such is not something I have to care about any more.
And as such there is no point in anybody engaging you on any level at any point during this tournament. You've already made your mind up. That's why I was pulling out after my previous post. Reason and debate don't interest you, and as such you don't interest me.
Tootles.
Stormtrooper
Championship Contender
I've never watched Citizen Kane, and don't really intend to (as it isn't something that I personally would enjoy), but to say it's overrated is just wrong. Just as wrong as comparing it to 2 Fast 2 Furious. They are totally different movies appealing to different people, and both sides know that and wouldn't expect them to co-mingle.
But who cares about movies. This is about Video Games. Here's a breakdown of this whole thing we got going on.
Dave thinks that Tetris is boring. That is his opinion, and he is entitled to it, even if others (like Gelgarin or myself) think he is incorrect. Maybe the best way to have explained this is Dave gets bored playing Tetris.
Gelgarin thinks that old games are better because of their technical limitations. He's entitled to his opinion, even if others (like Dave or myself) think he is incorrect. At the end of the day, the only thing that matters is how fun the game is. We're talking about video GAMES here, after all, and GAMES are supposed to be FUN.
But at the end of the day, does it really matter?
Super Mario 64 is gonna win this entire thing. In terms of fun, it is pretty much unrivaled. In terms of graphics, it was ahead of its time, and it still stands up somewhat to this very day. And it's in the perfect happy medium of this argument, as it's too old to be considered modern, but not old enough to be a relic of long ago (ie the 80's).
Finally, comparing graphics based on hardware is difficult. The only way I could really compare graphics cross-generation is how well they used the system they had, almost like a percentage. Mario 64 got as much as it could out of the N64, while maybe some other game didn't. To say "new games better because it looks better" isn't fair to the old games. On the other end, however, to say "of course it looks better, it's newer" isn't fair to the current games.
But who cares about movies. This is about Video Games. Here's a breakdown of this whole thing we got going on.
Dave thinks that Tetris is boring. That is his opinion, and he is entitled to it, even if others (like Gelgarin or myself) think he is incorrect. Maybe the best way to have explained this is Dave gets bored playing Tetris.
Gelgarin thinks that old games are better because of their technical limitations. He's entitled to his opinion, even if others (like Dave or myself) think he is incorrect. At the end of the day, the only thing that matters is how fun the game is. We're talking about video GAMES here, after all, and GAMES are supposed to be FUN.
But at the end of the day, does it really matter?
Super Mario 64 is gonna win this entire thing. In terms of fun, it is pretty much unrivaled. In terms of graphics, it was ahead of its time, and it still stands up somewhat to this very day. And it's in the perfect happy medium of this argument, as it's too old to be considered modern, but not old enough to be a relic of long ago (ie the 80's).
Finally, comparing graphics based on hardware is difficult. The only way I could really compare graphics cross-generation is how well they used the system they had, almost like a percentage. Mario 64 got as much as it could out of the N64, while maybe some other game didn't. To say "new games better because it looks better" isn't fair to the old games. On the other end, however, to say "of course it looks better, it's newer" isn't fair to the current games.
Mario 64 didn't really "get as much as it could out of the 64". That would be Conker's Bad Fur Day, which was amazing. Full voice work, no polygon fog, and great models and textures. Large game, too.
And I disagree with Lee's assessment that OOT doesn't stand the test of time graphically. Maybe it's because I usually play it on the Wii or on emulators, because they smooth the graphics and textures a little bit, but OOT still looks awesome (and Majora's Mask better).
Banjo-Tooie is another N64 game that looks great even today.
And I disagree with Lee's assessment that OOT doesn't stand the test of time graphically. Maybe it's because I usually play it on the Wii or on emulators, because they smooth the graphics and textures a little bit, but OOT still looks awesome (and Majora's Mask better).
Banjo-Tooie is another N64 game that looks great even today.
I nominated Treasure Island Dizzy. I imagine that will be getting one of my top 5 picks
FunKay the Inevitable
People Like Me, We Don't Play
I preparation for the Video Game tourney:
http://forums.wrestlezone.com/showthread.php?p=3097337#post3097337
http://forums.wrestlezone.com/showthread.php?p=3097337#post3097337
The Holy One
What's really good?
Wow, this thread has really taken off and I'm beginning another playthrough of Jet Set Radio Future. A very unique, great game too bad the sells didn't reflect that.
I'll be relentlessly defending the Final Fantasy series. Especially 4 and 7, should they make the cut. If only one FF does, I'll place my support behind it. I'll take on anyone who disagrees. 
Unless if Tales of Symphonia makes it in. That is the one and only time I will ever vote against any Final Fantasy game, is if it's up against Tales of Symphonia.
Unless if Tales of Symphonia makes it in. That is the one and only time I will ever vote against any Final Fantasy game, is if it's up against Tales of Symphonia.
Sure have. Not one of my favorites when weighted against the rest of the series, but still good all around fun game. I may or may not throw my support behind it, depends on how the brackets look and what it's up against.
Bro, i'm such a huge Golden Sun fan it's crazy. I haven't played the one on the DS for fear that it brings the series down, but the first two were un-paralleled. The sheer difficulty of Air's Rock was fucking crazy. Took me over a week for that part alone. I cannot sing that games praises enough man. I fucking forgot it on my list though which upsets me to no end. Easily in my top five favorite games of all time.
I'm planning on downloading and starting The Lost Age tomorrow, after I get the password for the team I assembled in Golden Sun of course. It'll be the first time I've played the game, though I went ahead and looked up a few spoilers because the whole storyline as a whole fascinates me.
My favorite battle was the one with Deadbeard, or whatever the name of the giant pirate guy is at the bottom of the Crossbones Island dungeon. The whole dungeon is awesome with all the puzzles, mini-bosses, and awesome loot you can get (I pretty much decked Garrett out in everything I found down there), and then you get to the toughest boss in the game (even tougher than the final dragon thing), and it's just a beast of a battle. He killed all my guys at least once, but I beat him on my first try. Thankfully I had almost every djinni and plenty of Waters of Life.
To say I'm excited to play it would be a massive understatement.
My favorite battle was the one with Deadbeard, or whatever the name of the giant pirate guy is at the bottom of the Crossbones Island dungeon. The whole dungeon is awesome with all the puzzles, mini-bosses, and awesome loot you can get (I pretty much decked Garrett out in everything I found down there), and then you get to the toughest boss in the game (even tougher than the final dragon thing), and it's just a beast of a battle. He killed all my guys at least once, but I beat him on my first try. Thankfully I had almost every djinni and plenty of Waters of Life.
To say I'm excited to play it would be a massive understatement.
Lee
Is it a bird? Is it a plane? No it's Supermod!
OK the deadline for your 50 has passed.
You have until 23:59 EST TONIGHT to send me the list of the games you want to give 5 extra points to.
Remember the rule, you can only send me five games, no more than one on the same console and if someone else has the same game in their list: tough it's a max of 5 extra points.
With that I'm also pleased to announce the non mod who will be helping us
You have until 23:59 EST TONIGHT to send me the list of the games you want to give 5 extra points to.
Remember the rule, you can only send me five games, no more than one on the same console and if someone else has the same game in their list: tough it's a max of 5 extra points.
With that I'm also pleased to announce the non mod who will be helping us
Fizzy
Stormtrooper
Championship Contender
with this bonus points deal, do you want us to post it here, or send it via private message?
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