Video Games Tourney hype thread

[Dave]

Just so everyone knows, Older does not necessarily mean better.

M'kay?

 

[The Doctor]

Super Mario Galaxy 2 is probably better than Super Mario 64.

 

[Gelgarin]

Just so everyone knows, Older does not necessarily mean better.

M'kay?

No, it just means that it can actually be judged on concepts such as legacy and influence. You know, actual arguments as opposed to "This is awesome, I love this game cos it's really good"

If a contemporary game can be shown to be original, revolutionary or genre transcending then it will get all the credit that is owed to it. I'll be pushing Demon's Souls as hard as anything this tournament. However if it is simply another version of something that was developed a decade ago then it does not deserve consideration over something that has achieved historical significance lasting almost thirty years. Similarly, no contemporary game even warrants consideration if an earlier title surpasses it. One of many reasons that FFX shouldn't be voted for.

Super Mario Galaxy 2 is probably better than Super Mario 64.

There is no maybe about it. Galaxy 2 is superior in pretty much every way. That being said, Mario 64 is the game that laid almost all of the groundwork for the entire platforming genre, and, controls aside, Galaxy does not travel very far from that.

It becomes a question of overall quality against originality and gaming significance. I'd give the nod to 64.

 

[Dave]

No, it just means that it can actually be judged on concepts such as legacy and influence. You know, actual arguments as opposed to "This is awesome, I love this game cos it's really good"

If a contemporary game can be shown to be original, revolutionary or genre transcending then it will get all the credit that is owed to it. I'll be pushing Demon's Souls as hard as anything this tournament. However if it is simply another version of something that was developed a decade ago then it does not deserve consideration over something that has achieved historical significance lasting almost thirty years. Similarly, no contemporary game even warrants consideration if an earlier title surpasses it. One of many reasons that FFX shouldn't be voted for.

We'll just have to see if this is the case, won't we?

Here's the thing though, there is only so many times that a genre can be busted wide open. Take Gears Of War for example. I have loved that game ever since it was released. It blew the thrid person shooter market out of the water and when it comes to playing that or Tetris, there is only one that I would rather be playing.

People have this mindset that because something is older, it is automatically better. Influence is a good thing to judge a game on but you need to have the same time frame for a game to be judged. In 10 years we could be looking back at Gears Of War and talking about in the same vein as Tetris.

You dig?

 

[Gelgarin]

We'll just have to see if this is the case, won't we?

We will see, and exactly what we will see is Gelgarin getting increasingly frustrated by his superior arguments being overlooked in favor of people voting for games they've actually played. *****.
I'm not fooling myself into thinking that I will win any of these arguments. If this forum wouldn't vote Lou Thesz over Big Van Vader then they are not going vote Elite over Halo 3 regardless of how strong the argument is.

Now for the record, nobody here has the mindset of "Older = Better", with the possible exception of myself, and even then that's only when my posts are filtered through a veil of incomprehension. My stance is that an inventive and original title that pioneered or redefined a genre is superior to an unoriginal, completely derivative contemporary remake, for much the same reason that Citizen Kane is superior to 2 Fast 2 Furious.

If you stood up in a film debate and started lauding the merits of 2 Fast 2 Furious or The Expendables over titles such as Gone with the Wind or Blade Runner then you would be correctly branded a whole host of impolite names. I fail to see why things should be different in a video games tournament just because it is a less cultured medium. On the whole classics achieve classic status for a reason.

You can present the argument that games have to be judged in the context of their time frame, which is fair enough. Then again, games also have to be judged in the context of their technology, and given that the Xbox360 is approximately 30,000 times more powerful than the ZX Spectrum it serves as a pretty hefty bitch-slap to the more modern titles.

As for Gears of War... much as I hate it, the original does deserve some credit for popularizing (not as good as pioneering, but still worth of praise) elements of the third person shooter. That being said, we will not be talking about Gears of War in the same way people talk about Tetris. For one, Gears of War is and has always been a past-time aimed exclusively at lowbrow males with small penises, and come the future I doubt many older people are going to want to admit enjoying it long enough to promote it. Secondly it won't be mentioned in the same breath as Tetris for the very simple reason that that's stupid. Tetris has managed to survive unchanged as a staple of the gaming industry for almost thirty years, Gears of War lost all of it's relevance in just under two years, after-which it had been almost universally cast aside in favor of new entries into the genre. The idea that in 2040 people are going to look back on it as anything more than a footnote on the development of the 3PS is laughable.

 

[Dave]

I will have a post in reply to this tomorrow. For now... Sleep.

 

[Gelgarin]

Good man. I can piss off happily now.

 

[Dave]

Yep. Far too late for me to be starting something at this point. Don't worry, your annihilation will come tomorrow.

 

[The Doctor]

Jet Force Gemini was one awesome third-person shooter.

 

[Muffin Top Merkley]

As for Gears of War... much as I hate it, the original does deserve some credit for popularizing (not as good as pioneering, but still worth of praise) elements of the third person shooter. That being said, we will not be talking about Gears of War in the same way people talk about Tetris. For one, Gears of War is and has always been a past-time aimed exclusively at lowbrow males with small penises, and come the future I doubt many older people are going to want to admit enjoying it long enough to promote it. Secondly it won't be mentioned in the same breath as Tetris for the very simple reason that that's stupid. Tetris has managed to survive unchanged as a staple of the gaming industry for almost thirty years, Gears of War lost all of it's relevance in just under two years, after-which it had been almost universally cast aside in favor of new entries into the genre. The idea that in 2040 people are going to look back on it as anything more than a footnote on the development of the 3PS is laughable.

To be fair, there are alot more games being released on a more frequent timeline now than there was when Tetris was released. That combined with the short attention span that the majority of people possess today, is part of the reasoning Gears of war gets played, then passed on.

 

[Gelgarin]

To be fair, there are alot more games being released on a more frequent timeline now than there was when Tetris was released.

I very much doubt this. The Sinclare Spectrum and similar consoles had a much, much lower development time for pretty much anything that wasn't Elite, and the result was much faster game releases. I certainly owned easily tn times as many Sinclare games as I do current generation titles, and that was back when I was seven years old with no disposable income.
95% of what go churned out was completely derivative dross and had no real value of any kind, but much like today, the real gems shine through and carve out a legacy.
Mario 64 will be looked back on by generations to come. So will Quake. So probably will Half Life and Portal. Gears wont. The original has already been pretty much forgotten about.

 

[Fizzy]

I dislike Portal.

 

[Stormtrooper]

they are not going vote Elite over Halo 3 regardless of how strong the argument is.

I really have never even heard of Elite prior to it being brought up here. However, I would vote for it in a heartbeat over the overrated pile of shit that is the Halo series. I won't, however, vote it over Mario 64, Ocarina of Time, Super Mario Bros, Portal/Orange Box, or Tetris (the games I am backing in this).

Now that I Wiki'd it (so I'd get a gist of what the game was, what it looked like, etc), I would definitely vote for it over Halo (and a good portion of games that will be in this tournament). Would I vote for it over a game I played and loved, maybe not, because I don't have the 1st hand experience with it.

I dislike Portal.

I dislike you.... just kidding, I don't have anything against you, I just disagree with your opinion. I love Portal, and it was one of the best games to be released in the past 5 years or so (if you include the entirety of the Orange Box as 1 game, then it ranks even better).

 

[Fizzy]

What was so good about it though? It was just a puzzle game. There were around four challenging levels in the game, and it took a few hours to beat the main game. The ending song was the best part of the entire game.

They got it right with Portal 2. So much better than the first.

 

[Stormtrooper]

I missed this post, as it was the last post on my previous page.

In fairness, the Mario franchise has pretty much had the entire genre to itself since 64. Every main Mario release has easily surpassed Mario 64, and aside from the Mario games, what else in there?

Are you saying there were no platformers made ever since 1996? Because I would strongly disagree. It may not be an over-saturated genre like Shooters or something, but there is competition.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Platform_game#Platformers_into_the_present

That Wiki article lists just a bunch of Mario's competition in the genre. Some include Sonic, Tomb Raider, Crash Bandicoot, Spyro, Banjo/Kazooie, etc.

 

[Stormtrooper]

What was so good about it though? It was just a puzzle game. There were around four challenging levels in the game, and it took a few hours to beat the main game. The ending song was the best part of the entire game.

1. It was a 3-d shooter-puzzle-platform game (which to my knowledge had never been done before). Not just a puzzle game.

2. It was more challenging then you are giving it credit for.

3. When you realize that it technically is only 1/5 of a game (Orange Box), it gains even more awesome.

4. The story/dialog in the game is awesome. And as you said the ending song was awesome as well.

They got it right with Portal 2. So much better than the first.

I wouldn't know. I haven't been able to play it yet. Being poor sucks ass. Haven't played that, Mortal Kombat, or any new games (excluding Super Street Fighter IV 3D which was a birthday present).

 

[Fizzy]

Lol a shooter... Technically it was a 3-D Puzzle Platform game with a gun as the main object of use. I never had a challenge in the game until I got to the last four puzzles. I may have been stumped from time to time, but never had real trouble. They released it as an independent title about a year after the Orange Box was released, and me being the fool I was bought it for twenty dollars. Waste of money right there. I will give you that the dialog was very good as was the portal gun sound, but I was never really impressed with it. Nothing ever gave me the "wow" factor in this game, and I became bored halfway through. It felt like a larger, better put together flash game. Very short game with some degree of difficulty in the challenge mode, but otherwise it didn't live up to the hype.

As for Portal 2, that I will concede is a must have. The multi-player is outstanding. One of the best multi-player games I have ever had the privilege of playing. Much longer, and more difficult than the first game with much more replay value. I don't have MK or SFIV, and don't plan on getting them. Was never a fan of those types of games.

 

[Lee]

I never got time to submit my list. Damn.

You've got until wednesday.

In fairness, the Mario franchise has pretty much had the entire genre to itself since 64. Every main Mario release has easily surpassed Mario 64, and aside from the Mario games, what else in there?

Aside from Sunshine, though the two galaxies are fantastic.

Because it's a really, really good game.

It's because people were voting AGAINST Mario not FOR Goldeneye (see Becker/Wes/Marquis 'campaign')

 

[jmt225]

I have about 30 games ready to be turned in. Coming up with 50 is fucking hard, lol. But I'll have a list with 50 names for you by Tuesday night for sure.

 

[Lee]

Like I said it's just the top 10 I need seeded and then the others are just a list, you can have anything from zero extra to 50.

 

[Lee]

For those who care I've added an extra rule for my own personal top 10 list. To stop my clear Nintendo Bias I can only have one game per nintendo console in my top 10. Some involves tactical voting (like JFG for my N64 option).

My list is as follows:

1) The Legend of Zelda: A link to the Past (SNES)
2) Super Mario Galaxy 2 (Wii)
3) Super Mario Bros 3 (NES)
4) Sonic The Hedgehog 2 (MD)
5) Jet Force Gemini (N64)
6) Dragon Quest VIII (PS2)
7) Okami (PS2)
8) Shining Force II (MD)
9) Mario Kart DS
10) Super Mario Land 2: The six golden coins (GB)

 

[Lee]

Ah fuck I just noticed a mistake on the main list. I've counted everyone who voted for mario 64 and everyone who voted for super mario 64 as two seperate games, time to merge the points. lol.

 

[Lee]

405 games excluding people's top 10s in so far:

Spoiler

007 Goldeneye (N64)
007 Nightfire (Gamecube)
Adiboo (PC)
Advance Wars - Dark Conflict (NDS)
Advance Wars (GBA)
Advance Wars 2 (GBA)
Aerofighters (Arcade)
Age of Empires 3
Air Combat (PlayStation)
Aladdin
Alex The Kidd
Alien vs. Predator
All-Star Baseball 2005
Animaniacs (Megadrive)
Army of Two: The 40th Day (PS3)
Assasin's Creed (X-Box 360)
Assassin's Creed II
Assassin's Creed: Brotherhood
Audiosurf (PC)
Avernum 3 (PC)
Back to Skool (ZX Specterum)
Backyard Baseball 2000
Banjo Kazooie
Banjo-Tooie (N64)
Batman Arkham Asylum (PS3)
Battletoads
Beijing 2008 (Various)
Bioshock
Black and White (PC)
Blue Dragon (X-Box 360)
Borderlands
Braid (PC)
Brian Lara Cricket (Megadrive)
Brigandine (PS1)
Burnout 3: Takedown
Call Of Duty (Various)
Call Of Duty 2: Big Red One
Call Of Duty 4: Modern Warfare
Call of Duty: Black Ops (Xbox 360)
Call Of Duty: Modern Warfare 2
Cannon Fodder (Commodore Amiga)
Castle Crashers (Xbox Live Arcade)
Castlevania - Dawn of Sorrow (NDS)
Castlevania: Symphony of the Night
Cave Story (Dsi)
Championship Manager 2 (PC)
Championship Manager 96/97 (PC)
Chessmaster - Grandmaster Edition (PC)
Choplifter (Mastersystem)
Chrono Trigger
Civilization II
Columns (Game Gear)
Comix Zone (Megadrive)
Command & Conquer: Red Alert 3 (PC)
Commander Keen (PC)
Conker's Bad Fur Day
Contra (NES)
Crash Bandicoot (PlayStation)
Crash Bandicoot 2: Cortex Strikes Back (PS1)
Crash Bandicoot 3: Warped (PS1)
Crazy Taxi
Crescendo (PC)
Daytona USA (SAT)
Dead Rising (X-Box)
Dead Space
Def Jam Vendetta (PS1)
Desert Strike (Megadrive)
Destruction Derby (PS)
Destruction Derby 2 (PS1)
Deus Ex
Deus Ex Machina (ZX Spectrum)
Devil May Cry (PS2)
Devil May Cry 3
Diablo 2
Diddy Kong Racing
Dig Dug (Arcade/PC)
Diskworld Noir (PC)
Dissidia: Final Fantasy (PSP)
Donkey Kong (Arcade)
Donkey Kong Country
Donkey Kong Country Returns (Wii)
Doom
Double Dragon
Dr Kawashima's Brain Training
Dr. Mario
Dragon Age Orgins
Dragon Ball Z Budokai 3 (PS2)
Dragon Quest VIII
Dragon Warrior Monsters
Driver (PlayStation)
Driver 2
Duck Hunt (NES)
Duck Tales
Duke Nukem
Duke Nukem 3D
Dynasty Warriors 4
EA MLB 05
EA NHL 2002
Ecco the Dolphin (Megadrive)
Elder Scrolls III: Morrowind (X-Box)
Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion
Empire Earth (PC)
Empire Earth 2
Escape from Monkey Island (PS2)
Eternal Darkness (GCube)
Everybody's Golf 2 (PS)
Fallout 3
Fatal Frame 2
Fear Effect (PS)
FIFA 08
FIFA 10
FIFA 98: Road to World Cup (Various)
Fight Night 4 (PS3)
Fight Night Round 2 (PS2)
Final Fantasy IV
Final Fantasy IX
Final Fantasy Tactics A2 (DS)
Final Fantasy Tactics Advance (GBA)
Final Fantasy VI
Final Fantasy VII
Final Fantasy VIII (Playstation)
Final Fantasy X
Final Fantasy: Crisis Core
Fire Emblem (GBA)
Fire Pro Wrestling Retunrs (PS2)
Football Manager 2006
Frogger
Gauntlet (N64)
Gears of War II
Ghostbusters (PS3)
Gitaroo Man (PS2)
Gizmos and Gadgets
God Of War
God of War 3 (PS3)
Golden Sun
Gran Turismo (PS)
Gran Turismo 3
Gran Turismo 4 (PS2)
Grand Theft Auto (PC/PSX)
Grand Theft Auto III
Grand Theft Auto San Andreas
Grand Theft Auto: Vice City
Guitar Hero 3
Gunstar Heroes
Half Life 2
Halo
Halo 2 (X-Box)
Halo Reach (Xbox 360)
Harvest Moon (GCN)
Harvest Moon 64 (N64)
Heatseeker (Wii)
Heavy Rain (PS3)
Hitman 2
Ico
Internation Superstar Soccer 2 (Gamecube)
ISS Pro Evolution 2 (Various)
Jak 2
Jak and Daxter: The Precursor's Legacy
Jet Force Gemini
Jet Set Radio Future (Xbox)
Jimmy White's Cueball (Megadrive)
Jonah Lomu Rugby (Megadrive)
Jurassic Park (Snes)
Just Cause 2
Kingdom Hearts
Kirby’s Dreamland 2
Left 4 Dead
Lego Star Wars II (PS2)
Lemmings (Megadrive)
Little Big Planet
LittleBigPlanet 2 (PS3)
Lords of Midnight (ZX Spectrum)
Lost Planet 2 (PS3)
Luigi's mansion.
Madden 07 (Various)
Madden 2004
Madden 2010
Madden NFL 11
Manhunt
Maniac Mansion (Multiplatform)
Marble Madness (NES)
Mario Kart 64
Mario Kart Advance (GBA)
Mario Kart DS
Mario Kart Wii (Wii of course)
Mario Party (N64)
Mario Party 2
Mario Party 4 (GCN)
Mario Tennis
Marvel Ultimate Alliance 2 (PS3)
Marvel vs. Capcom 2 (Arcade)
Marvel vs. Capcom 3
Mass Effect 2
Medal of Honor (PC)
Mega Man (NES)
Mega Man 2
Mega Man Battle Network 2 (GBA)
Mega Man Battle Network 6: Cybeast Gregar (GBA)
Mega Man Legends 2 (PS)
Mega Man: The Wily Wars (Megadrive)
Megaman (NES)
Mercenaries: Playground of Destruction (Various)
Metal Gear Solid
Metal Gear Solid 2
Metal Gear Solid 3: Snake Eater (PS2)
Mickey and Donalds World of Illusion (Megadrive)
Mighty Morphin Power Rangers: The Movie(SNES)
Mike Tysons Punchout (NES)
Minecraft
Mirror's Edge (PS3)
Mischief Makers (N64)
Mission Impossible
Monkey Island (PC)
Mortal Kombat (Megadrive)
Mortal Kombat 3
Mortal Kombat Armageddon
Mortal Kombat II (Arcade/Genesis/SNES)
Mortal Kombat: Deception
My World 2 (Acorn 3000)
Myst III (PC)
NBA 2K11 (PS3)
NBA Jam (NES)
NCAA College Football 2010 (Xbox 360)
Nebulus (Tower Toppler) (Atari)
Need for Speed Underground (PS2)
Need For Speed Underground 2 (PS2)
NHL 94 (SNES/Genesis)
Ninja Five-O (GBA)
No More Heroes (Wii)
Oddworld: Abe's Oddysee (PS1)
Oddworld: Stranger's Wrath (X-Box)
Okami
Olympic Gold Barcelona 92 (Megadrive)
Oregon Trail
Oregon Trail 3
Oregon Trail 5th Edition (PC)
Oregon Trail II
Pac Man
Pandemonium
Paper Mario (N64)
PaRappa The Rapper (Playstation)
Perfect Dark
Persona 3 (PS2)
Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney - Justice For All (Nintendo DS)
Pikmin (GC)
Plants vs. Zombies (PC)
Pokemon Black/White (DS)
Pokemon Blue, Red, and Yellow
Pokemon Emerald (GBA)
Pokemon Fire Red/Leaf Green
Pokemon Gold (GBC)
Pokemon Pinball (GBA)
Pokemon Platinum (DS)
Pokemon Sapphire (GBA)
Pokemon Stadium
Pokemon Stadium 2
Pong
Portal
Prince of Persia: Sands of Time (PS2)
Prince of Persia: The forgotten sands
Prince of Persia: The Two Thrones (PS2)
Pro Evolution Soccer 6 (Xbox 360)
Project Gotham Racing 3
Psychonauts (X-Box)
Putt-Putt Travels Through Time
R Type (C64)
Ratchet And Clank
Ratchet and Clank: Up Your Arsenal
Rayman
RBI Baseball (NES)
Red Dead Redemption
Resident Evil 4
Resident Evil II (PS)
Resident Evil: Outbreak
Ristar (Megadrive)
Road Rash (Megadrive)
Rock Band
Saints Row 2 (PS3)
Scarface (GCN)
Scott Pilgrim vs. The World: The Game (PS3/XB360)
Shadow of the Colossus
Shenmue
Shin Megami Tensei: Persona 3 (PS2)
Shining force II
Silent Hill
Silent Hill 2
Sim City (PC)
Sim City 2000
Sim Tower
Sly Cooper and the Thievius Racoonus (PS2)
Snowboard Kids (N64)
Socom (PS2)
Sonic CD (Sega CD)
Sonic the Hedgehog
Sonic The Hedgehog (8-bit version) (Game Gear)
Sonic the Hedgehog 2 (Genesis)
Soul Calibur 2 (Gamecube)
Space Invaders (Arcade)
Space Station Pheta (Apple Mac)
Spider-Man (SNES)
Spider-Man: Shattered Dimensions (PS3)
Splinter Cell
Splinter Cell Conviction (360)
Spyro 3: Year of the Dragon (PS1)
Spyro The Dragon
SSX On Tour (NGC)
Star Fox (N64)
Star Ocean: Till the End of Time
Star Trek: Birth of the Federation (PC)
Star Trek: Starfleet Academy (PC)
Star Wars - Kinights of the Old Republic (PC)
Star Wars Episode 1 Racer
Star Wars: Battlefront 2
Starcraft
Starcraft II
Street Fighter 2 (Super Nintendo)
Street Fighter 2 Turbo (Various)
Street Fighter 3rd Strike (DreamCast)
Street Fighter IV
Streets of Rage
Streets of Rage 2 (Megadrive)
Super Contra
Super Mario 64
Super Mario Bros
Super Mario Bos 3 (NES)
Super Mario Galaxy (Wii)
Super Mario Galaxy 2
Super Mario Kart
Super Mario Land 2: 6 Golden Coins (GB)
Super Mario Sunshine (Gamecube)
Super Mario World
Super Metroid
Super Monkey Ball (GCube)
Super Smash Bros
Super Smash Bros Brawl
Super Smash Bros Melee (GCN)
Super Street Fighter II (Arcade)
Syphon Filter (PS)
Tales of Symphonia (Gamecube)
Tecmo Bowl (NES)
Tecmo Super Bowl
Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles: Turtles in Time (Super NES)
Tekken 2
Tekken Tag Tournament (PS2)
Tenchu (PS)
Tetris (Game Boy)
The Hobbit (ZX Spectrum)
The Legend of Zelda (NES)
The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past
The Legend of Zelda: Four Swords Adventures (GC)
The Legend of Zelda: Link’s Awakening
The Legend of Zelda: Majora's Mask
The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time
The Legend of Zelda: The Wind Waker
The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess (GCube)
The Logical Journey of the Zombinies
The Sims
The Sims 2 (PC)
The Warriors (PS2)
The World Ends With You (NDS)
Theme Park (PS)
Time Crisis 2 (Arcade)
TimeSplitters: Future Perfect (PS2)
Tiny Toon’s Wacky Sports Adventure (Super Nintendo)
TMNT: Turtles in Time (Super Nintendo)
TOCA 2: Touring Cars (PlayStation)
Toejam and Earl (Megadrive)
Tomb Raider (PS)
Tomb Raider II (PSX)
Tony Hawk Pro Skater 2 (GBA/PS1)
Tony Hawk Pro Skater: Underground (PS2)
Tony Hawks Pro Skater (PS1/N64)
Total Carnage (Super Nintendo)
Total Extreem Wrestling 2010 (PC)
Treasure Island Dizzy (Commodore 64)
Turok 2
Twisted Metal (Playstation)
Twisted Metal III (PS)
Ultima V (PC)
Uncharted 2
Virtua Fighter 2 (SAT)
Wario Ware Inc.: Mega Microgame$ (GBA)
WarioWare Smooth Moves (Wii)
WCW/nWo Revenge
Wii Fit (Wii)
Wii Sports (Wii)
Wolfenstein
World of Warcraft
Worms
Wrestlefest (Arcade)
WWE Day of Reckoning (GC)
WWE Smackdown Here Comes the Pain
Wwe Smackdown Shut Your Mouth (PS2)
Wwe SmackDown vs RAW 2008 (PS2)
Wwe Smackdown! 2 (PS1)
wweSmackdown vs. Raw 2007
WWF Attitude (PlayStation)
WWF No Mercy
WWF Wrestlemania 2000
X-Men Legends 2
X-Men: Reign of Apocalypse
Yoshi’s Island
Zelda 2: Adventure of Link (NES)
Zero Tolerance (Megadrive)
Zombies Ate My Neighbors

 

[Dave]

We will see, and exactly what we will see is Gelgarin getting increasingly frustrated by his superior arguments being overlooked in favor of people voting for games they've actually played. *****.
I'm not fooling myself into thinking that I will win any of these arguments. If this forum wouldn't vote Lou Thesz over Big Van Vader then they are not going vote Elite over Halo 3 regardless of how strong the argument is.

Now for the record, nobody here has the mindset of "Older = Better", with the possible exception of myself, and even then that's only when my posts are filtered through a veil of incomprehension. My stance is that an inventive and original title that pioneered or redefined a genre is superior to an unoriginal, completely derivative contemporary remake, for much the same reason that Citizen Kane is superior to 2 Fast 2 Furious.

If you stood up in a film debate and started lauding the merits of 2 Fast 2 Furious or The Expendables over titles such as Gone with the Wind or Blade Runner then you would be correctly branded a whole host of impolite names. I fail to see why things should be different in a video games tournament just because it is a less cultured medium. On the whole classics achieve classic status for a reason.

You can present the argument that games have to be judged in the context of their time frame, which is fair enough. Then again, games also have to be judged in the context of their technology, and given that the Xbox360 is approximately 30,000 times more powerful than the ZX Spectrum it serves as a pretty hefty bitch-slap to the more modern titles.

As for Gears of War... much as I hate it, the original does deserve some credit for popularizing (not as good as pioneering, but still worth of praise) elements of the third person shooter. That being said, we will not be talking about Gears of War in the same way people talk about Tetris. For one, Gears of War is and has always been a past-time aimed exclusively at lowbrow males with small penises, and come the future I doubt many older people are going to want to admit enjoying it long enough to promote it. Secondly it won't be mentioned in the same breath as Tetris for the very simple reason that that's stupid. Tetris has managed to survive unchanged as a staple of the gaming industry for almost thirty years, Gears of War lost all of it's relevance in just under two years, after-which it had been almost universally cast aside in favor of new entries into the genre. The idea that in 2040 people are going to look back on it as anything more than a footnote on the development of the 3PS is laughable.

As far as Citizen Kane vs 2 Fast 2 Furious goes, I see what you have did there. You took a movie that no on really cares about and put it against one of the most over-rated movies of all time. A closer comparison is Citizen Kane against Avatar. Both of them are the finest pieces of work from their respective generations and that is why it should be so close.

Secondly, if games are going to be judged on their technology that was available at the time in a positive manner, then it needs to go the other way too. If you are going to say that Tetris was amazing because it was the best game of it's generation and was enthralling because it only had a limited amount of technology at it's disposal. If that is the case, then I can make the argument that Gears Of War is better than Tetris because it Gears is on a much superior system and has much better technology at it's disposal. I know that I would rather play a mediocre game from this generation that one of the games that people hang their hats on as being one of the most original games ever. I can only play Pac-Man for about 20 minutes before I get bored and Tetris may be the most boring game in existence.

I'll tell you what is laughable though, people glamorising older games simply because they were good for their time. If games are going to judged and placed against each other in a competitive manner, then technology and overall production value will come into play, at least in my argument. Do I feel bad about that? Do I hell.

 

[Lee]

Tetris is pretty much the sole reason hand held gaming exists today.