AegonTargaryen
Championship Contender
What a contentious discussion!
Regardless of what either side of the debaters claim, one has to have a neutral stand on this one. I disagree with the OP that he's a "pseudo-legend". Simultaneously, I have to agree with the essence of what the OP, ilapierre, and a few others have pointed out. HHH is a politicking, selfish, self-centred, egomaniacal SOB. It's a fact. It's a fact that isn't difficult to prove.
He was never at the level of Rock/Austin, and was always a background player. Ironically, a "B plus" player, the same epithet that they've bestowed on daniel bryan. He always got himself inserted into major storylines/factions/players. Brock Lesnar/CM Punk in recent years is a good example, as the OP/others have pointed out.
I also think he's not very original. This isn't something that others haven't claimed. Bret Hart was right when he said so. Sure, he had a persona, he had his DX Schtick, etc. He also had two catchphrases in the Era of catchphrases (Attitude Era). But do I think he was original, like how Austin and Rock were original, even though they prolliferated expletives and catchphrases like anything? No I don't. Just because you say "I am that damn good" and "The game", it doesn't add one bit to your talent. If anyone should've called themselves "The game", it should be a technically flawless and brilliant wrestler like Kurt Angle or Bret Hart. : )) : )) : )).
Did he put guys over? When it suited him, he did. Batista, Orton, and others. But he has also been an egomaniacal, self-serving, manipulative bastard for most of his career. I'd like to echo ilapierre when he made a brilliant distinction of how he pinned Brock and Punk, just before their reigns/milestones.
Finally, I think HHH has been/is/will always be a COPYCAT. It only emphasizes my prior point that he's unoriginal. Rock and Mankind steal the show at RR 1999 in a street fight or whatever it was. Fast forward to Royal Rumble 2000. It's HHH/Mick Foley. Wowwwwwww. HBK had two back-to-back matches with the Undertaker at WM? I'm going to have them too. Hell, I'll have a HIAC at WM.
I think the only reason HHH got over/got through with his mediocre talent was because he was positioned into those places, for whatsoever reason, and because of the guys he worked with, namely, Austin during Survivor Series 2000, The Rock throughout 1998 (When Rock was obviously far more talented and original than HHH could ever dream of being), and in 2000 when The Rock was a hot commodity, and when HHH was a boring, long-promo cutting, overrated heel.
It's really not that much of a mystery that HHH was/is a B level, mediocre wrestler with mediocre skills, but plenty of practical intelligence and politics that allowed him to carve his own niche and legacy. He was always an unoriginal spotlight stealer. Surrounded himself with HBK in 1997 when HBK was hot, Rock in 1998/2000 when THE ROCK was hot. Austin in 2000/2001. The only time when he was seemingly independent was 2002-2005 because he was the SOLE former champion from the attitude era with Batista, Flair and Orton to serve as his underlings. And obviously, in a situation like brand extention, without Rock and Austin, even a mediocre wrestler becomes a multiple-time champion and a "main-eventer".
His plus points are that he had a few "good matches" and speciality matches with almost every legend in this business, from Taker to HBK to Mick Foley to Kurt Angle. He was never an engaging or compelling talker, nor performer. But to deny him that credit and to say that he's not a legend would be a mistake. Legend, yeah. Original, No.
Regardless of what either side of the debaters claim, one has to have a neutral stand on this one. I disagree with the OP that he's a "pseudo-legend". Simultaneously, I have to agree with the essence of what the OP, ilapierre, and a few others have pointed out. HHH is a politicking, selfish, self-centred, egomaniacal SOB. It's a fact. It's a fact that isn't difficult to prove.
He was never at the level of Rock/Austin, and was always a background player. Ironically, a "B plus" player, the same epithet that they've bestowed on daniel bryan. He always got himself inserted into major storylines/factions/players. Brock Lesnar/CM Punk in recent years is a good example, as the OP/others have pointed out.
I also think he's not very original. This isn't something that others haven't claimed. Bret Hart was right when he said so. Sure, he had a persona, he had his DX Schtick, etc. He also had two catchphrases in the Era of catchphrases (Attitude Era). But do I think he was original, like how Austin and Rock were original, even though they prolliferated expletives and catchphrases like anything? No I don't. Just because you say "I am that damn good" and "The game", it doesn't add one bit to your talent. If anyone should've called themselves "The game", it should be a technically flawless and brilliant wrestler like Kurt Angle or Bret Hart. : )) : )) : )).
Did he put guys over? When it suited him, he did. Batista, Orton, and others. But he has also been an egomaniacal, self-serving, manipulative bastard for most of his career. I'd like to echo ilapierre when he made a brilliant distinction of how he pinned Brock and Punk, just before their reigns/milestones.
Finally, I think HHH has been/is/will always be a COPYCAT. It only emphasizes my prior point that he's unoriginal. Rock and Mankind steal the show at RR 1999 in a street fight or whatever it was. Fast forward to Royal Rumble 2000. It's HHH/Mick Foley. Wowwwwwww. HBK had two back-to-back matches with the Undertaker at WM? I'm going to have them too. Hell, I'll have a HIAC at WM.
I think the only reason HHH got over/got through with his mediocre talent was because he was positioned into those places, for whatsoever reason, and because of the guys he worked with, namely, Austin during Survivor Series 2000, The Rock throughout 1998 (When Rock was obviously far more talented and original than HHH could ever dream of being), and in 2000 when The Rock was a hot commodity, and when HHH was a boring, long-promo cutting, overrated heel.
It's really not that much of a mystery that HHH was/is a B level, mediocre wrestler with mediocre skills, but plenty of practical intelligence and politics that allowed him to carve his own niche and legacy. He was always an unoriginal spotlight stealer. Surrounded himself with HBK in 1997 when HBK was hot, Rock in 1998/2000 when THE ROCK was hot. Austin in 2000/2001. The only time when he was seemingly independent was 2002-2005 because he was the SOLE former champion from the attitude era with Batista, Flair and Orton to serve as his underlings. And obviously, in a situation like brand extention, without Rock and Austin, even a mediocre wrestler becomes a multiple-time champion and a "main-eventer".
His plus points are that he had a few "good matches" and speciality matches with almost every legend in this business, from Taker to HBK to Mick Foley to Kurt Angle. He was never an engaging or compelling talker, nor performer. But to deny him that credit and to say that he's not a legend would be a mistake. Legend, yeah. Original, No.
