I don't think DDP as a pick was so controversial just an opinion. The forum is about who u think is the best ever and - think he is one of them. Triple H is a good wrestler on paper but a wrestler IMO is a wrestler who can be in the midcard and still steal the show Triple H hasnt had that kind of career if he wasn't main eventing then his list of great matches would be a short list. But I do argee with the other pick with hogan and austin because they did put on a lot of good matches. If u watch wcw ddp had tons and main event caliber matches with raven chris benoit jeff jarrett the giant hogan sting and goldberg
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Top 5 EVAH
- Thread starter Mighty NorCal
- Start date
IrishCanadian25
Going on 10 years with WrestleZone
1. Hulk Hogan. Very little that can be said about the guy that people have not already brought up. I liked him as a kid (though not as much as many others) and I have a mix of spiteful disdain and pity for him now. But in terms of his mark on being great at what he did, he was. The man drew like nobody else, cut promos all his own, and more than almost anyone else in history he OWNED his character. That's important. Terry Bollea WAS Hulk Hogan - the character came to life, then became larger than.
2. Ric Flair. Yes, the man drew. He was a fantastic heel and put on some long and thrilling matches. To this day he stands as one of the most legendary promo men ever to step in the ring. He maintained ring-worthy athletic condition well into his 50's. He is one of the men around whom the business was built, and he was fantastic at it. Anybody who tries convincing me or anyone else that Flair wasn't great for whatever reason is full of shit. When I watched Wrestlemania at my usual bad this year and the ENTIRE place, even with some non-wrestling fans in attendance, stand and cheer - you cannot tell me he didn't have an impact as one of the greatest ever.
3. Shawn Michaels. It took much deliberation to put him on this list, but the facts stand for themselves. From his days in the AWA, Shawn worked is ass off putting on fantastic matches in front of small crowds. He didn't care. Michaels went out and didn't just work his matches - he had FUN doing so. He loved it. With so many people talking about wrestling as a business, Shawn shows his passion for it. Come on, how many pro athletes get hurt and just collect checks until they retire? Shawn came back from a back injury that would end any other pro athletes career and still performs at the highest level. He has "IT." He draws as a face or a heel, and he always gives EVERYTHING he has to the crowd and to his opponent.
4. Big Van Vader. Hands down, Leon White goes on my top 5 list. And it was either him or Andre, but when push comes to shove, Vader is the greatest Superheavyweight EVER to grace the ring. This man had it all. He was more powerful than even a lot of 450-pounders were. He was as agile as a 250-pounder, doing splashes, drop kicks, moonsaults, etc. He used the ring as well as anyone I've ever seen. If you didn't give EVERYTHING you had in the ring, he worked stiff and brutalized you to make sure you ALWAYS gave your all. He was well versed in high impact and power-based offense as well as technical mat wrestling (see: Japan vs Antonio Inoki). Despite the stereotypes about SHW's, Vader was as "in shape" as anyone ever was, putting on longer than average matches and willing 3- or 4-match tournaments in Japan. When Ric Fair hit WWF in the early 90's, Vader was the man who practically carried WCW as the top heel vs Sting and Simmons. This man only recently started getting the IWC respect he deserves in the WZ Tournament, and I'll be damned if I'll allow everyone to forget it.
5. Randy Savage. Tough choice here at #5. I understand people tossing The Undertaker on the list, because of his iconic loyalty to the WWF/E and its fans. But man, Savage was intense, athletic, and worked equally well as a face and as a heel. Here's a stat I looked up and developed myself - Only two men in Wrestlemania history have headlined back to back Wrestlemanias as a face at one and a heel at the other. Randy Savage at Wrestlemanias 4 and 5, and Shawn Michaels at Wrestlemanias 11 and 12. Savage worked equally well as a face or a heel, and is responsible for some of the greatest Wrestlemania Matches of all time: vs Steamboat (3), vs Warrior (7), vs Flair (8). He was powerful, he was agile, he could hit the top rope, he could hit the mat, and MAN could he ever cut a promo.
That is my short list of 5, though ask me again in 3 months and I'm sure I'll change something around. A short list without Austin is hard for me to look at, but NO I will not remove Vader.
2. Ric Flair. Yes, the man drew. He was a fantastic heel and put on some long and thrilling matches. To this day he stands as one of the most legendary promo men ever to step in the ring. He maintained ring-worthy athletic condition well into his 50's. He is one of the men around whom the business was built, and he was fantastic at it. Anybody who tries convincing me or anyone else that Flair wasn't great for whatever reason is full of shit. When I watched Wrestlemania at my usual bad this year and the ENTIRE place, even with some non-wrestling fans in attendance, stand and cheer - you cannot tell me he didn't have an impact as one of the greatest ever.
3. Shawn Michaels. It took much deliberation to put him on this list, but the facts stand for themselves. From his days in the AWA, Shawn worked is ass off putting on fantastic matches in front of small crowds. He didn't care. Michaels went out and didn't just work his matches - he had FUN doing so. He loved it. With so many people talking about wrestling as a business, Shawn shows his passion for it. Come on, how many pro athletes get hurt and just collect checks until they retire? Shawn came back from a back injury that would end any other pro athletes career and still performs at the highest level. He has "IT." He draws as a face or a heel, and he always gives EVERYTHING he has to the crowd and to his opponent.
4. Big Van Vader. Hands down, Leon White goes on my top 5 list. And it was either him or Andre, but when push comes to shove, Vader is the greatest Superheavyweight EVER to grace the ring. This man had it all. He was more powerful than even a lot of 450-pounders were. He was as agile as a 250-pounder, doing splashes, drop kicks, moonsaults, etc. He used the ring as well as anyone I've ever seen. If you didn't give EVERYTHING you had in the ring, he worked stiff and brutalized you to make sure you ALWAYS gave your all. He was well versed in high impact and power-based offense as well as technical mat wrestling (see: Japan vs Antonio Inoki). Despite the stereotypes about SHW's, Vader was as "in shape" as anyone ever was, putting on longer than average matches and willing 3- or 4-match tournaments in Japan. When Ric Fair hit WWF in the early 90's, Vader was the man who practically carried WCW as the top heel vs Sting and Simmons. This man only recently started getting the IWC respect he deserves in the WZ Tournament, and I'll be damned if I'll allow everyone to forget it.
5. Randy Savage. Tough choice here at #5. I understand people tossing The Undertaker on the list, because of his iconic loyalty to the WWF/E and its fans. But man, Savage was intense, athletic, and worked equally well as a face and as a heel. Here's a stat I looked up and developed myself - Only two men in Wrestlemania history have headlined back to back Wrestlemanias as a face at one and a heel at the other. Randy Savage at Wrestlemanias 4 and 5, and Shawn Michaels at Wrestlemanias 11 and 12. Savage worked equally well as a face or a heel, and is responsible for some of the greatest Wrestlemania Matches of all time: vs Steamboat (3), vs Warrior (7), vs Flair (8). He was powerful, he was agile, he could hit the top rope, he could hit the mat, and MAN could he ever cut a promo.
That is my short list of 5, though ask me again in 3 months and I'm sure I'll change something around. A short list without Austin is hard for me to look at, but NO I will not remove Vader.
Father:_Polley
Fun's my Chinese neighbour's name
1. I hate my self for it, but Hulk. I was never a big fan of his ring work, or him in general, but there's no denying the fact. this man drew like no other has or is doing. He was iconic and is probably the face people associate most with wrestling
2. The Rock - The fact is, the Rock is never going to be remembered for being a technical god in the ring. However, like the majority on this list, he more than atoned for that by being probably the best mic worker in recent years. He cut some of the funniest promos as a face, was able to turn the crowd on him like probably no-one else (except the hogan heel turn maybe). This is best seen by the fact he's famous outside of wrestling, people want him to act and he's actually known by his real name. No-one else has done that.
3. Sting - When you can make a name for yourself without ever touching the biggest name in the industry on multiple occassions, you know that you're doing something right. Sting is a draw no matter where he goes and everyone has been saying they'd love him in WWE. That's a sign you deserve to be rated as the best.
4. Ric Flair - he's been there, done it all, won it all. Ok, his ring work has been sloppy, but he survived a plane crash and still wrestled again. He's an icon and like hogan deserves the credit for being so
5. Vince McMahon- Odd choice, but this man has drawn more heat, been part of more high profile feuds, can still get pops and occasionally wrestles. the fact is, VKM is a master at manipulating crowds so that when he does get into the ring, straightaway it garners instant respect. Take VKM vs Shawn Michaels - match of the year despite the fact that there were more memorable matches that year. Why? Because Vince was a master at making the crowds sit up and take notice. Hell he made Umaga vs Bobby Lashley, a match devoid of all charisma into a big media event at WM simply because he and some wig wearing billionaire were involved.
Ask yourself...would DX, SCSA, Rock be half the men they were without Vince driving them towards it?
2. The Rock - The fact is, the Rock is never going to be remembered for being a technical god in the ring. However, like the majority on this list, he more than atoned for that by being probably the best mic worker in recent years. He cut some of the funniest promos as a face, was able to turn the crowd on him like probably no-one else (except the hogan heel turn maybe). This is best seen by the fact he's famous outside of wrestling, people want him to act and he's actually known by his real name. No-one else has done that.
3. Sting - When you can make a name for yourself without ever touching the biggest name in the industry on multiple occassions, you know that you're doing something right. Sting is a draw no matter where he goes and everyone has been saying they'd love him in WWE. That's a sign you deserve to be rated as the best.
4. Ric Flair - he's been there, done it all, won it all. Ok, his ring work has been sloppy, but he survived a plane crash and still wrestled again. He's an icon and like hogan deserves the credit for being so
5. Vince McMahon- Odd choice, but this man has drawn more heat, been part of more high profile feuds, can still get pops and occasionally wrestles. the fact is, VKM is a master at manipulating crowds so that when he does get into the ring, straightaway it garners instant respect. Take VKM vs Shawn Michaels - match of the year despite the fact that there were more memorable matches that year. Why? Because Vince was a master at making the crowds sit up and take notice. Hell he made Umaga vs Bobby Lashley, a match devoid of all charisma into a big media event at WM simply because he and some wig wearing billionaire were involved.
Ask yourself...would DX, SCSA, Rock be half the men they were without Vince driving them towards it?
my opinion on the top 5 ever in no particular order is
1. Ric flair
Ric Flair is dedicated to the buisness an excellent promoer and one of the best Wrestlers, he knows how to put on a great match.
2.H.B.K
Michaels has always put 110% percent into everything he does. his life is wrestling he can make almost every person he wrestles look good.
3.The immortal Hulk Hogan
Just like almost everyone on here it pains me to put him on the list but i know that WWE wouldnt be as big as what it is without him, He is the most over wrestler ever.
4.The Undertaker
He came in on the top and has been perched there ever since. He is another great that doesnt need a title to make him over his career and legacy overshines the belt.
5.Vince Mcmahon
He has to be on it imo. Vince is the ultimate heel, who do people hate more then thier boss? he is never afraid to put anyone over. and humilate himself for the fans. like the whole dx thing in 2006. some might say he wrestles just to stay in the spotlight i say he wrestles to entertain the crowds. and stay in the spotlight.
1. Ric flair
Ric Flair is dedicated to the buisness an excellent promoer and one of the best Wrestlers, he knows how to put on a great match.
2.H.B.K
Michaels has always put 110% percent into everything he does. his life is wrestling he can make almost every person he wrestles look good.
3.The immortal Hulk Hogan
Just like almost everyone on here it pains me to put him on the list but i know that WWE wouldnt be as big as what it is without him, He is the most over wrestler ever.
4.The Undertaker
He came in on the top and has been perched there ever since. He is another great that doesnt need a title to make him over his career and legacy overshines the belt.
5.Vince Mcmahon
He has to be on it imo. Vince is the ultimate heel, who do people hate more then thier boss? he is never afraid to put anyone over. and humilate himself for the fans. like the whole dx thing in 2006. some might say he wrestles just to stay in the spotlight i say he wrestles to entertain the crowds. and stay in the spotlight.
Here are my top 5 in no particurlar order becuase they all were good in different aspects of wrestling.
The Rock: this guy was pretty good in the ring but he was best known for his acting ability and mic skill. possibly the best wrestler on the mic ever.
Hulk Hogan: when people think of wrestling they think of Hulk he was the standard bearer of the buisness for two brilliant decades.
Steve Austin: probably the most popular superstar in the attitude era it was a shame his carrer was ended prematurely by that neck injury.
Ric Flair naitch may have retired but the 3 decades of memories will live on. WOOO!!
Vince Mcmahon without him the wwe would not be what it is today with his inventive fueds and brilliant business sense.
The Rock: this guy was pretty good in the ring but he was best known for his acting ability and mic skill. possibly the best wrestler on the mic ever.
Hulk Hogan: when people think of wrestling they think of Hulk he was the standard bearer of the buisness for two brilliant decades.
Steve Austin: probably the most popular superstar in the attitude era it was a shame his carrer was ended prematurely by that neck injury.
Ric Flair naitch may have retired but the 3 decades of memories will live on. WOOO!!
Vince Mcmahon without him the wwe would not be what it is today with his inventive fueds and brilliant business sense.
simpsons_fanatic742
WZPC Intercontinental Champion
My top 5 Superstars Ever:
1. Hulk Hogan - I understand alot of people's arguements on his in-ring abilities, but I do not agree with people not including him on their list. He is the biggest name superstar ever. If you ask people to name the first wrestler that comes to their head, most will say Hogan. He put wrestling on the map, made it mainstream. He has the biggest fan base ever with the Hulkamaniacs and the biggest draw in Hulkamania. Everyone was caught up in Hulkamania. He worked the mic great and his ring work was good enough. He was the face of wrestling and many believe he still is.
2. Stone Cold Steve Austin - He was everything Hogan was in terms of draw, just not to the same magnitude. He was however much different from Hogan. He was the take no shit, beer drinking, ass-kicking guy while Hogan stood for the good. Austin was the Attitude Era along with The Rock, he worked the mic with amazing skill and has had some memorable matches, along not the best in-ring worker. When the glass shattered, everyone was off their feet, even now it has the same affect.
3. The Undertaker - My favourite wrestler, but not on my list because of that. He is ultimately the greatest big man in WWF/WWE history (I love Andre, but not as big a draw as Undertaker). He has been on top forever and his gimmick has never become stale or boring (hard to say that about other people). His segments were mind-boggling, his entrances are second-to-none ad still bring a chill down my spine everytime. He is Mr. WrestleMania whether you think so or not because it's hard for Vince McMahon to keep one wrestler winning very match they have at the biggest PPV in WWF/WWE. His in-ring work is great and can have great matches with sub-par wrestlers.
4. The Rock - He was the Attitude Era with Austin, but didn't have the same affect. He was one of the best on the mic and cut epic promos. He was good in the ring and effective as both a heel and a face. He always held the crowd in his hand and still today the fans love mimicing his catchphrases whenever he speaks.
5. Shawn Michaels - It was either him or Bret Hart, but I picked Shawn because he lasted longer. He is a great in-ring wrestler bringing 5 star matches everytime, he is second only to Undertaker for the title of Mr. WrestleMania because he brings it every time and delivers every time. He was a good promo cutter and plays a great heel and face. His time in the first DX was awesome and drew huge. His gimmick has also not grown stale or boring and still draws huge pops from the crowd. He has been at the top forever and helped carry alot of superstars.
Bret Hart is a very, very, very close 5th, but because he didn't last as long as Michaels and because of his time in WCW, he did not make the list, but he was an amazing in-ring wrestler, had great mic skills, and drew huge with the crowd, and has one of the most memorable fueds with Michaels.
1. Hulk Hogan - I understand alot of people's arguements on his in-ring abilities, but I do not agree with people not including him on their list. He is the biggest name superstar ever. If you ask people to name the first wrestler that comes to their head, most will say Hogan. He put wrestling on the map, made it mainstream. He has the biggest fan base ever with the Hulkamaniacs and the biggest draw in Hulkamania. Everyone was caught up in Hulkamania. He worked the mic great and his ring work was good enough. He was the face of wrestling and many believe he still is.
2. Stone Cold Steve Austin - He was everything Hogan was in terms of draw, just not to the same magnitude. He was however much different from Hogan. He was the take no shit, beer drinking, ass-kicking guy while Hogan stood for the good. Austin was the Attitude Era along with The Rock, he worked the mic with amazing skill and has had some memorable matches, along not the best in-ring worker. When the glass shattered, everyone was off their feet, even now it has the same affect.
3. The Undertaker - My favourite wrestler, but not on my list because of that. He is ultimately the greatest big man in WWF/WWE history (I love Andre, but not as big a draw as Undertaker). He has been on top forever and his gimmick has never become stale or boring (hard to say that about other people). His segments were mind-boggling, his entrances are second-to-none ad still bring a chill down my spine everytime. He is Mr. WrestleMania whether you think so or not because it's hard for Vince McMahon to keep one wrestler winning very match they have at the biggest PPV in WWF/WWE. His in-ring work is great and can have great matches with sub-par wrestlers.
4. The Rock - He was the Attitude Era with Austin, but didn't have the same affect. He was one of the best on the mic and cut epic promos. He was good in the ring and effective as both a heel and a face. He always held the crowd in his hand and still today the fans love mimicing his catchphrases whenever he speaks.
5. Shawn Michaels - It was either him or Bret Hart, but I picked Shawn because he lasted longer. He is a great in-ring wrestler bringing 5 star matches everytime, he is second only to Undertaker for the title of Mr. WrestleMania because he brings it every time and delivers every time. He was a good promo cutter and plays a great heel and face. His time in the first DX was awesome and drew huge. His gimmick has also not grown stale or boring and still draws huge pops from the crowd. He has been at the top forever and helped carry alot of superstars.
Bret Hart is a very, very, very close 5th, but because he didn't last as long as Michaels and because of his time in WCW, he did not make the list, but he was an amazing in-ring wrestler, had great mic skills, and drew huge with the crowd, and has one of the most memorable fueds with Michaels.
I got something to say. How can people put Kurt Angle and The Rock on the list of the greatest wrestlers ever. That is a bunch of crap. When the Rock came to wrestling he sucked. After his feud with Farooq then he started doind something entertaining. It took him a while to be famous. Then he only stayed a few years and left to make movies. He doesn't even go by the name The Rock anymore. He is just Dwayne Johnson. As for Kurt Angle he needs to prove himself a little more before he can be an all-time great.
Father:_Polley
Fun's my Chinese neighbour's name
why shouldn't the rock be classed as the most influential? If you name the superstars which defined WWE in the Attitude era, Rock and Austin are the two that come to mind. Out of the two of them, Rock was the better guy on the mic and better at making the fans turn on him - Austin was getting cheered for a heel turn at WM. As for making movies, so what? the man was successful in the ring and had done it all. Why shouldn't he go and do something else. You'd do it too if you could.
As far as his ability - Hogan wasn't great, Cena not great, Austin pretty poor as well...all great performers. Charlie haas, ken shamrock, steve blackman...great athletes but never going to be considered the best. Why? Because it's not all about in-ring ability, it's actually not what makes you a hit. Fact is Trumike, wrestling isn't about wrestling...it's about drawing you in, and the best guys do that.
As for Angle, well you've just used
As far as his ability - Hogan wasn't great, Cena not great, Austin pretty poor as well...all great performers. Charlie haas, ken shamrock, steve blackman...great athletes but never going to be considered the best. Why? Because it's not all about in-ring ability, it's actually not what makes you a hit. Fact is Trumike, wrestling isn't about wrestling...it's about drawing you in, and the best guys do that.
As for Angle, well you've just used
, you can't say the same about Angle. He's won everything in every company he's been with. He's won an Olympic medal (with a broken freakin' neck).When the Rock came to wrestling he sucked
Mighty NorCal
SHALL WE BEGIN?
Everyone who is ranking HBK and Ric Flair towards the top is either a crack addict, or didnt read the rules. Neither guy drew shit, EVER. True, HBK may have the unfair stip of going against the NWO angle, but it doesnt change the fact that he never drew shit, was on top of the company for one of their WORST eras. And its been proven over and over and over that Flair has never drawn shit. Unless you cound crowds that came through the gate for free, drunk, at fairgorunds in bugaloosa georgia as a draw.
klunderbunker
Welcome to My (And Not Sly's) House
What about Bret's drawing ability? He was on top in 1995, parts of 1996 and was near the top in 1997, which were bad times for WWF. I don't know his numbers, but he never really seemed like a top draw either. In Canada he's an absolute god, but in America, while he was indeed an amazing in ring talent, he never really seemed like a big draw. I could be wrong though.
Father:_Polley
Fun's my Chinese neighbour's name
I agree Klunder. Bret was damn good in the ring, but he was never really a big draw in America. Canada the man is up there with God in how highly he is viewed, but he was never a big draw, and definately not in WCW
To Polley:Wanna_Cracker. How can someone say Ric Flair never made money. I mean come on. He sold out arenas around the world. People wanted to see him against his opponents. I mean when he was in Japan against Fujinami and everyone else. People wanted to see. They paid to see their rematch. When he went Puerto Rico he made money. Carlos Colon wanted him to keep coming back for a reason. Now the Rock was a good wrestler. He was great on the mic. But he wasn't and isn't a top 5 greatest ever. You are right I would make movies if I knew how. Good luck to him. He may be a top 10.
Mighty NorCal
SHALL WE BEGIN?
Bret wasnt a good draw in WCW, becuase he was used like shit. And 93 and 94 were better years for WWE than 96, when shawn was the end all be all. Bret Hart is 10X the international star Shawn ever was, or will be. Bret was the main lead of some extremely successfull overseas tours, some of the most successfull WWE has ever seen.
And im not saying HBK isnt great. Top 10 for sure. But you have people in here saying number 1, top 3, shit like that, and its just absurd.
And im not saying HBK isnt great. Top 10 for sure. But you have people in here saying number 1, top 3, shit like that, and its just absurd.
klunderbunker
Welcome to My (And Not Sly's) House
I agree on Bret in WCW and on the international scene, but Idk if I could put him in the top 5 ever. To me, he never seemed like he had that natural star quality or a high enough level of charisma. The only thing to me that holds him back are his mic skills. While he's adequate on the mic, he never really got to me on it. Not saying he was bad, but not my taste.
Father:_Polley
Fun's my Chinese neighbour's name
Emmm, if you check Ric Flair made my list and I didn't say anything about him not making money.
As for Rock, he's included on the basis that he was one of the top names during the age where wrestling was taken to a new level. Sacrilige maybe, but what has Hogan got that the rock hasn't apart from a longer career. Fact is, the Rock was the guy people wanted to see, along with Stone cold. He made the Attitude Era what it was.
To be honest, i'm more surprised no-one has commented on the Vince inclusion than the fact I put the Rock in
As for Rock, he's included on the basis that he was one of the top names during the age where wrestling was taken to a new level. Sacrilige maybe, but what has Hogan got that the rock hasn't apart from a longer career. Fact is, the Rock was the guy people wanted to see, along with Stone cold. He made the Attitude Era what it was.
To be honest, i'm more surprised no-one has commented on the Vince inclusion than the fact I put the Rock in
Bret wasnt a good draw in WCW, becuase he was used like shit. And 93 and 94 were better years for WWE than 96, when shawn was the end all be all. Bret Hart is 10X the international star Shawn ever was, or will be. Bret was the main lead of some extremely successfull overseas tours, some of the most successfull WWE has ever seen.
And im not saying HBK isnt great. Top 10 for sure. But you have people in here saying number 1, top 3, shit like that, and its just absurd.
Probably one of the best post ever. Shawn Michaels is the ultimate smark favorite. To be a real wrestling fan, you must say that Ric Flair and Shawn Michaels are the greatest two ever to be initiated into that club. Thankfully, I'm not a part of that club. Facts are facts, and Flair was never the draw his legend and his fans *cough Triple H* make him out to be. And Shawn Michaels, Michaels while great in the ring, has never been more then the number three guy in the company. When he was number one, ratings plummet. As much as his fans *Cough Triple H* will tell you other wise, Shawn Michaels is incredibly mediocre when it comes to being greatest of all time, those are just facts.
Mighty NorCal
SHALL WE BEGIN?
Go look at the promos during 97 KB. Seriously. You want promos??? THOSE ARE FUCKING PROMOS. I dont understand how so many people can give guys like Shane Douglas, and the Dudleys so much credit for searing heat promos, and then say Bret Hart was shit on the mic. You want searing, white hot, serious fucking buisness-there is about to be a riot right now fucking heat?? Check out his last heel run. I wanted to KILL his ass, and he was my favorite wrestler before he turned. Those times, that angle, and the whole year of 97, especially the summer, was amazing, and the apex of Bret on the mic.
Slim Pickns
Has Been Drafted To RAW
Bret Hart drew monsterous numbers worldwide. He absolutely crushes HBK in drawing power. During his Intercontinental Championship days, he would main event the overseas tours because he drew better than Randy Savage, the Ultimate Warrior, and even *gasp* Ric Flair.
Anyway you look at it, HBK tanked as WWF Champion. His reign drew horrible numbers and he was booed out of the building at times. Sid was getting some of the biggest pops as the heel. Even when he attacked Michaels 60 year old trainer to try and get heat back, the fans went nuts. The ratings didn't come back until, you guessed it, Bret Hart came back and Stone Cold took off. Both of those guys are a step above HBK.
Anyway you look at it, HBK tanked as WWF Champion. His reign drew horrible numbers and he was booed out of the building at times. Sid was getting some of the biggest pops as the heel. Even when he attacked Michaels 60 year old trainer to try and get heat back, the fans went nuts. The ratings didn't come back until, you guessed it, Bret Hart came back and Stone Cold took off. Both of those guys are a step above HBK.
You are right I meant that Ric Flair not making money for someone else. I apologize on that. But The Rock need Austin just as Austin need The Rock. But my thing is how long was Rock a main event guy. Not that many years. Not like some others. Austin was there with him and made more money and had more match of the year canidates than Rock. I like Vince. Good idea.
klunderbunker
Welcome to My (And Not Sly's) House
That's very true about HBK. Is he an amazing in ring performer? Yes. Is he a great with promos? Yes. Is he entertaining overall? Yes. Would I want him as the top man in my company? No. Not for longer than a few weeks at the most. In 1997-early 98, Michaels was WWF champion, but it was Austin that was clearly the top guy around. Michaels was just there as a heel, but when Austin showed up, no matter what he did, the people simply responded to him. You could see that Michaels was going to be used as a stepping stone for him. He just never has been the top guy around, as he always seems to be the ultimate jobber. Like everyone else has said, top 10 easily, but not top 5.
Slim Pickns
Has Been Drafted To RAW
Go look at the promos during 97 KB. Seriously. You want promos??? THOSE ARE FUCKING PROMOS. I dont understand how so many people can give guys like Shane Douglas, and the Dudleys so much credit for searing heat promos, and then say Bret Hart was shit on the mic. You want searing, white hot, serious fucking buisness-there is about to be a riot right now fucking heat?? Check out his last heel run. I wanted to KILL his ass, and he was my favorite wrestler before he turned. Those times, that angle, and the whole year of 97, especially the summer, was amazing, and the apex of Bret on the mic.
Wow, NorCal is on yet again. I feel sorry for anyone who didn't get to experience this time in wrestling. Its honestly, looking back, the most fun my friends and I have had watching wrestling. We hated Bret, even after we spent the last decade cheering him. I threw away my Hitman shirt (kept the shades) because he became my least favorite for bashing my country and beating USA reps in matches. His promos were amazing, he didn't have to resort to immature jokes like HHH either. Anyone who calls Hart bland needs to watch this, compare it to anything DX has done, and shut up.
klunderbunker
Welcome to My (And Not Sly's) House
Go look at the promos during 97 KB. Seriously. You want promos??? THOSE ARE FUCKING PROMOS. I dont understand how so many people can give guys like Shane Douglas, and the Dudleys so much credit for searing heat promos, and then say Bret Hart was shit on the mic. You want searing, white hot, serious fucking buisness-there is about to be a riot right now fucking heat?? Check out his last heel run. I wanted to KILL his ass, and he was my favorite wrestler before he turned. Those times, that angle, and the whole year of 97, especially the summer, was amazing, and the apex of Bret on the mic.
Oh no questions or arguments from me on these. Those are some of the best heel lines and speeches of all time. But I'm talking about overall, I never really responded to him save for that summer. In WCW, his career is beyond forgetable, but then again all of those years in the entire company are. His stuff with the Hart Foundation always seemed to be overshadowed by the Anvil's over the top style. It wasn't until 93-94 that he got on the mic, and he was mainly feuding with Diesel, Yoko and Owen in those times. In those years, I remember one great promo from him just before his cage match with Owen. To me he was always good, but save for 97 never great.
Mighty NorCal
SHALL WE BEGIN?
I always loved him on the mic. I mean, just becuase he doesnt have a bunch of whack ass catch phrases that were most likely scripted in the first place, he came, he said what he needed to say, and was right on. Serious buisness. And i mean, you cant expect much else from the character. I mean, he was supposed to be a respectable, throwback, excellent ring general. What was he supposed to do, stand there and scream like a crazy person, like Warrior did??? HBK benifits from having a flashier character, therefore had more "entertaining" promos. Bret Hart was always VERY good on the mic, and is vastly underrated in this regard
Father:_Polley
Fun's my Chinese neighbour's name
You are right I meant that Ric Flair not making money for someone else. I apologize on that. But The Rock need Austin just as Austin need The Rock. But my thing is how long was Rock a main event guy. Not that many years. Not like some others. Austin was there with him and made more money and had more match of the year canidates than Rock. I like Vince. Good idea.
Oh I don't think either of them would have made it without the other. There's no denying that both of these men (along with HHH and Undertaker) were responsible for carrying that Era of WWE through to what it was. As I stated in my initial list, my reason for picking Rock was simply because he was better at playing either a heel or face far better than Austin who despite acting heel most of his careers, he could never carry it as he was so popular and against VKM. To me, the Rock was better at evoking hatred than SCSA. Add to that, Austin was out for quite a while during his peak and Rock wasn't.
Ok, he left before many wanted, but he did everything he could. All he lacks is the years
klunderbunker
Welcome to My (And Not Sly's) House
Hmm, that's a good point. He was the Excellence of Execution after all, so it wouldn't make much sense to have him talking like Austin or Rock. He had one catchphrase and it worked for him. The seriousness was a part of his character and it fit great. I'll have to go back and watch some of his pre 97 stuff. I do remember some of his stuff with Austin in 96-early 97 and those were always great to me also. I think Bret is at his best on the mic as a heel, but much like Jericho, needs someone to bounce off of.
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