Lol this is funny nor cal because it seems like everyonr think drawing makes great wrestlers. There is a difference yes we know hogan and austin drew more than hbk and flair but that doesn't make them better in ring competitors. Hogans opponents put hogan over and his charisma other than that his wrestling ability is average. You can name many different wrestlers who had better matches and more talented wrestling wise than hogan. He never went outside his confort zone to me he is legend indeed but not the best. Ill give props to austin cuz one he never clained to be the best wrestler but the one thing he wasn't was boring in the ring and played to his strengths. Flair is similiar to hogan in in ring ability but not the same success so I wouldn't say he is better. Here's who I think top hogan just in ring ability HBK bret hart chris benoit undertaker chris jericho DDP Sting rick rude Kurt hennig vader kurt angle owen hart stone cold the rock and the list goes on. I'm a hogan fan and believe he is a pioneer but can't claim he is the best to ever lace their boots
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Top 5 EVAH
- Thread starter Mighty NorCal
- Start date
Mighty NorCal
SHALL WE BEGIN?
This is funny Image, as it appears you are another who has been worked by the industry, and by the IWC. Allow me to explain something for you *Dons the slyfox sweater vest*
Pro wrestling....isnt real. Its a show. and a Buisness. Buisnesses main objective, is to make money. How do you make money?? By having a great draw. So therefore, if you are a superior draw, you are the superior talent. Wrestling is a live action theatre, for lack of a better term. Its about getting people emotionally invested, and making them care about your character, about how well you act out your character. I could go into a ring and do drop toe holds, and arm drags, and asai moonsaults al night, but no one will give a fuck, or pay to see me do it. And as Slim has brought up, your argument is actually a pro Hogan argument. All those other guys could go in there and put on 30 minute clinics on how to do fake wrestling moves, and not make any money. Yet Hogan could simply walk into an arena, do some punches, some slams, and waggle his finger, and get ten times a reaction out of the crowd, and make ten times the money. Getting a reaction from the crowd, and thus, making money, is what pro wrestling is ALL ABOUT. You can have whatever biased "smart" opinions you would like, but thats the truth, end all be all, end of story.
All those guys you named above, besides Austin, probably havent made the same amount of money COMBINED as Hogan has, nor have they had nearthe influence. The amount of moves done isnt even close to what makes a wrestler a great wrestler, and to claim so is over analizying, and silly. Hogan preformed matches just exactly as his character should have.
Pro wrestling....isnt real. Its a show. and a Buisness. Buisnesses main objective, is to make money. How do you make money?? By having a great draw. So therefore, if you are a superior draw, you are the superior talent. Wrestling is a live action theatre, for lack of a better term. Its about getting people emotionally invested, and making them care about your character, about how well you act out your character. I could go into a ring and do drop toe holds, and arm drags, and asai moonsaults al night, but no one will give a fuck, or pay to see me do it. And as Slim has brought up, your argument is actually a pro Hogan argument. All those other guys could go in there and put on 30 minute clinics on how to do fake wrestling moves, and not make any money. Yet Hogan could simply walk into an arena, do some punches, some slams, and waggle his finger, and get ten times a reaction out of the crowd, and make ten times the money. Getting a reaction from the crowd, and thus, making money, is what pro wrestling is ALL ABOUT. You can have whatever biased "smart" opinions you would like, but thats the truth, end all be all, end of story.
All those guys you named above, besides Austin, probably havent made the same amount of money COMBINED as Hogan has, nor have they had nearthe influence. The amount of moves done isnt even close to what makes a wrestler a great wrestler, and to claim so is over analizying, and silly. Hogan preformed matches just exactly as his character should have.
IrishCanadian25
Going on 10 years with WrestleZone
IC, dont think I cant see right through your purposefull attempt to drag me out simply for the purpose of us having a go. Punk
It's Monday, I am bored and I am at work, so I needed to find somebody who was at least half my intellectual equal. Since that didn't pan out, you were the next best option.
Kidding, I really need a good debate today.Sadly, you won't give me one.
We agree a lot after all, and your overall post takes into account how I largely feel. I can understand someone putting Flair over Austin, because Austin drew dick as "Stunning" Steve or as a Hollywood Blonde. But to put Flair or HBK over Hogan would be absurd, and while I don't feel it would be evidence of drug abuse, it would certainly be uber-smarky.
100% times over agree. The match was booked at a HUGE Wrestlemania and in truth, it wasn't even the Main Event. Hell, it really was booked as #4 on the totem pole below: The WHC Match, the WWE Title Match, and Big Show vs Mayweather. Now, the Flair vs Michaels match may have been the most anticipated, but it wasn't the main event, and it wasn't the #1 draw for the show.
As a matter of fact, WM24 finished BEHIND WM23 in total buys, and that is WITH the match involving the end of Ric Flair's career! What does that say about their drawing power?!
I disagree winged eagle I don't think hbk over stoled like its hyped up to be. hogan yes he did matches with taker yes he did but the thing is it make it comical and entertaining and made it look like he was getting dominated. The hogan oversell was to make hogan look bad cuz of the politics. Comparing bret fighting bulldog to hbk fighting lets say chris masters who is horrible is a joke. Bret was wrestling a average skilled wrestler while hbk was wrestling trash. Ok answer this how realistic was it for yokozuna to job to bret when suddenly out of nowhere he just falls and bret gets the title. And the austin matxh he had he stole prefectly to make stunner look like it was a legitimate move if hbk oversells then the rock is the king of overselling moves. Face facts hbk matches as a whole are usually the best on the card period
Nor cal you seem very intelligent but your arguement is weak. Its common knowledge that pro wrestling is entertainment and a money maker but you always have to realize that the fans in the 80s and early 90s are different from the fans of late 90s into the 2000s. As the business evolved so did the moves and the wrestlers. If hogan started his career later would be as over as is today? And make a comment about him play his gimmick by keeping his moves simple please hogan did not want to work harder than he had to. its like saying bret vs shawn at wrestlemania was less entertaining then hogan vs warrior. I'm sorry I don't jump on the hogan train so easily like some people do but I believe hogan was at the right place at the right time plus had a very good marketing engine and he is overrated performance wise. No one expects him to so techinical but explain why wrestlers like undertaker can evolve their style passed punches and kicks showing that even old dogs can learn new tricks. It not only improves the wrestler but makes more money because it brings more new fans and paints a picture that other fans didn't know he was capable of. A match that has two great wrestlers in the ring is more of money maker of a hogan maktch that predictable and repetitive
Mighty NorCal
SHALL WE BEGIN?
Um, Hogan Vs Warrior WAS more entertaining than Shawn Vs Bret. Shawn Vs Bret was one of the most eye gougingly boring matches ever. Please dont be another mark gushing over the technical skill of two guys laying on top of each other for 45 minutes as "entertaining". Warrior Vs Hogan was one of the most epic showdowns off all time, and the crowd in absolute full throat from start to finish.
HUlk HOgan is vastly UNDERRATED preformance wise, if anything. His in ring preformance was excellent. Please direct me to any HUlk Hogan match were he botches a lot of moves?? None. Please direct me to anything else Hogan couldve done in the ring which wouldve coincided with his character??? Is the 6' 8" 315 pound Hulk Hogan suppose to be doing enziguri's??? Hurrcarana's??? He was a brawling type wrestler, So He brawled. The UNdertaker is a very poor comparison, becuase one, He has no real discernable style, therefore allowing him to branch, and adapt new styles. Two, the Undertaker has never been the companies top draw, or a good one, even during his title runs. NOT EVEN CLOSE to Hogan in that respect. HBK vs Bret didnt draw shit even CLOSE to any of the Big Hogan matches. You have been worked by the buisness telling you that guys who have technical styles and who use submission wrestling are automatically "better" than guys like Hogan, which is simply silly. You think they are better "wrestlers" becuase the WWE has invested so much time into getting you to belive that. Although we will all never know, since this is not the olympics, this is Pro Wrestling. And Hulk Hogan is FAR above any other in the game of PRO WRESTLING
HUlk HOgan is vastly UNDERRATED preformance wise, if anything. His in ring preformance was excellent. Please direct me to any HUlk Hogan match were he botches a lot of moves?? None. Please direct me to anything else Hogan couldve done in the ring which wouldve coincided with his character??? Is the 6' 8" 315 pound Hulk Hogan suppose to be doing enziguri's??? Hurrcarana's??? He was a brawling type wrestler, So He brawled. The UNdertaker is a very poor comparison, becuase one, He has no real discernable style, therefore allowing him to branch, and adapt new styles. Two, the Undertaker has never been the companies top draw, or a good one, even during his title runs. NOT EVEN CLOSE to Hogan in that respect. HBK vs Bret didnt draw shit even CLOSE to any of the Big Hogan matches. You have been worked by the buisness telling you that guys who have technical styles and who use submission wrestling are automatically "better" than guys like Hogan, which is simply silly. You think they are better "wrestlers" becuase the WWE has invested so much time into getting you to belive that. Although we will all never know, since this is not the olympics, this is Pro Wrestling. And Hulk Hogan is FAR above any other in the game of PRO WRESTLING
Wooooow..... I'm fucking shocked at the lack of love for Bruno Sammartino in this thread. The dude has every thing in terms of being a box office draw, legacy and overall credibility. Sure, Bruno may not have made as much money as Hogan did, but Bruno sold out Madison Square Garden more times than ANYONE, and Bruno filled houses everywhere he wrestled during his era.
Also, unlike most top draws ever in this business, Bruno got where he got with hard work and honesty, and as far as I can tell, he never had to screw anyone over to remain on top. Moreover, the fact that his two title reigns managed to last well over a decade speaks loudly enough.
So, with that said, I would rank Hogan 1st for obvious reasons (plenty of good posters have already explained why this man currently deserves the billing), Bruno 2nd, Bret Hart 3rd, Flair 4th, and HBK 5th.
However, let me say that if Cena can somehow bring another boom period during his era, twenty years from now he should be looked at as the greatest to ever lace up the fucking boots. The dude is already awesome, but he's lacking those big box office numbers to be considered one of the greatest. But Cena has AT LEAST ten more years left in him, and even though it's going to be hard in today's day and age to do so, I really think he'll eventually lead WWE back to 'boom' like numbers within a few more years.
Also, unlike most top draws ever in this business, Bruno got where he got with hard work and honesty, and as far as I can tell, he never had to screw anyone over to remain on top. Moreover, the fact that his two title reigns managed to last well over a decade speaks loudly enough.
So, with that said, I would rank Hogan 1st for obvious reasons (plenty of good posters have already explained why this man currently deserves the billing), Bruno 2nd, Bret Hart 3rd, Flair 4th, and HBK 5th.
However, let me say that if Cena can somehow bring another boom period during his era, twenty years from now he should be looked at as the greatest to ever lace up the fucking boots. The dude is already awesome, but he's lacking those big box office numbers to be considered one of the greatest. But Cena has AT LEAST ten more years left in him, and even though it's going to be hard in today's day and age to do so, I really think he'll eventually lead WWE back to 'boom' like numbers within a few more years.
Lol now that you mention it remember the match hogan had with warrior in wcw? That ending was completely terrible and the match was botched when he tried to light the paper. His match with sting at starcade was the worse match I have ever seen by him after all that hype. He couldn't even has sting win cleanly. I think you have me all wrong I never believe just because you are a techincal wrestler doesn't make you better we know hogan is a brawler that's fine but if you going to be one make your move set creative. Fancy moves don't make the wrestler but for 20 plus years the same hulking up the same boot to face same legdrop u think that's so entertaining? Its not like the guy got better with age he got worse and stiff. I don't think is the worse thing since khali but I don't think he is underrated either. He has accomplished a lot but that mainly cuz of politicing and holding wrestlers down not because of overall skill. And second undertaker is always and forever be a brawler just because he has some submissions and a high risk move doesn't mean he not a brawler. That's like saying flair is a submission wrestler cuz he has the figure four. I'm not brainwashed at all I think you need to talk to all the hulkmanaics who would never see a weakness in their hero
Mighty NorCal
SHALL WE BEGIN?
Now, sir, we are grasping at straws. Are you really going to run down Sting Vs Hogan?? The biggest most successfull angle that WCW EVER HAD?? And one of the biggest in wrestling HISTORY?? Once again. Drawing power. And i said direct me to a wrestling move Hogan botched. Please dont say you are trying to imply lighting a peice of wax paper on fire is a wrestling move. And yes, I do think the hulk up and boot to the face is entertaining, even as overused as it had been. And you know something? So DO MILLIONS OF PEOPLE WHO PAY TO SEE HOGAN WRESTLE.
he6rt6gr6m
Dark Match Winner
(he6rt6gr6m is heartagram with 6's instead of the letter a.
)Now, Im all for a reply that is going to display why Hulk Hogan isnt a good wrestler, however this reply seems to show you are bitter about Hogans backstage attitude in WCW.
His political power made him very disliked backstage, and, indeed, in front of the curtain when it became public.
He made Sting look bad twice in the WCW Tenure. If you recall Starrcade, he made sure he didnt do a clean "job" to Sting, because Sting "wasnt in his league" or whatever, and then at Halloween Havoc '99 he again showed his stroke by not appearing when scheduled in Entrances, and appearing in street clothes, and lying down for Sting to pin him.
Then he had the balls to turn around and give a speech to Russo about how "this damn company is in the shape its in, because of bull shit like this..." referring to Jeff Jarrett lying down in the ring for him to get the World Title.
Again, apparently, that was Hogan using his power, saying he wanted the title, and that Jarrett should do a clean job to Hogan.
At that point, though, Hogan was really bad. I mean, seriously, he couldnt wrestle, and he wasnt the top draw in WCW anymore (not that there were many) yet he still wanted a title run, even though the Cheating Jeff Jarrett angle was working well.
So, to put that into the equation is unfair. Sure, he had power, stroke, and used it to his full advantage, but its not right to count that against the guy who single handed made Pro Wrestling a 6-12m Viewers a week Prime Time show.
I still dont think he was a great Wrestler, but I do know he made Wrestling what it is today... good and bad...
Both replies to my staements I appreciate but think about this if a wrestle is showcase more than other wrestlers wouldn't you assume he is the better wrestler? Its like showing a commercial over and over again eventually people wants the product you are selling because they are the most familiar with it and I think that's the case with hogan. If this was the list of biggest draws there wouldn't be a arguement about hogan but best matches of all time hogan has a few because on paper its get but when you see it it doesn't live up to the hype. I meation wcw because if I'm going to evaluate hogan it has to be his whole career just not the time he was in his prime. The point being made is the hype of hogans matches make many fans watch and think it was great not the match itself. When you see it when it happens great but when you look back it wasn't as entertaining as you though it was. Answer this how many matches without the title being on the line has hogan had that were consdered the best? Other than rock vs hogan I can't think of any. If you say hogan vs kidman I will pass out lol. Ill add one more wcw/wwe favorites fingerpoke of doom now that was quality lol. Last but not least do you think the only reason the match with hbk was hype so much was just because of hogan or maybe shawn had something to do with it too lol.
I'm gonna name my top five wrestlers of all time in four different areas:technical abilities,high flyers,hardcore,mic skills,and draw.
Top Five technical Abilites
Ric Flair-He has forgotten more moves than most people will ever learn.He is the true master of the figure four.He put on so many great matches it's hard to keep track.He was unbelievable.
Bret Hart-He was a truly amazing wrestler in all aspects.He did things wrestlers today dream about doing.And his match with Shawn Michaels at Mania was a masterpiece.People still talk about it.
Dean Malenko-The man of 1,000 holds.It wasn't a far-fetched gimmick.He may have actually known that many holds in reality.I really enjoy watching some of his matches with Benoit.
Chris Benoit-Whether or not you agree with his actions out of the ring(and I hope you don't),You have got to love the show he put on in the ring.He was another technical great.
Kurt Angle-He doesn't have many bad matches.He is a former olympic gold medalist.He kinows his technical wrestling and can put on a great match.
Honorable Mention:HBK,Bryan Danielson,Christopher Daniels,Jushin Liger,Eddie Guerrero,Terry Funk
top five high flyers
Jeff Hardy-He has done some spots and has put on high-flying fast-paced matches I still talk about.A truly amazing athlete in all ways.Plus he can wrestle.
Rey Misterio Jr.-An athletic high-flying superstar who excites me whenever he steps into the squared circle.I don't think there is a bad match on his DVD,which I happen to own.
Matt Hardy-Not as big of a risk-taker as his brother but still.Some of his ladder match action is amazing.
Edge-Gets a nod because of his mastering the TLC and ladder matches.He showed us how much of a risk-taker he can be and is an overall great wrestler.
Shelton Benjamin-His MITB ladder work is great.He can put on a great match with a lot of exciting action.
Honorable Mentions-Chris Jericho,Sabu,RVD,Matt Sydal,Jack Evans,Matt Cross
Hardcore
Terry Funk-Do I need to say anything.He is the one and only Hardcore Legend.May I give you example:ECW Born to be Wired 1997.He can wrestle,too.
Mick Foley/Cactus Jack-Some of his matches with Terry Funk were shocking.He has put on some awesome hardcore matches over the years.And can also wrestle.
Mad Man Pondo-The mad man from the Realm of Pain knows how to go hardcore.The man has wrestled in barbed wire,broken glass,and everything else.A true hardcore wrestler.
Sabu-Suicidal,Homicidal,Genocidal Death-Defying maniac.He injured himself for the fans.What a truly amazing wrestling career he has had.
Ian Rotten-Went hardcore with the best of them and came back for more.From IWA to ECW,he did so much.
Honorable Mention-Brain Damage,The Necro Butcher,The Juggulator,RVD,Axl Rotten,The Sandman,Tommy Dreamer
Top Five on the mic
Ric Flair-I'm not gonna say anything.If you don't know you are not a wrestling fan.
The Rock-The most electrifying man in Sports Entertainment.Nothing else to be said.
Stone Cold-Cut good promos in ECW and had great segments with everybody in WWE.
Triple H-He cuts the some of the most intense,hardcore promos ever.
Chris Jericho-He just has a natural way of being able to work magic on the mic.
Honorable Mention-John Cena,Mr.Kennedy,MVP
Biggest Draw
Hulk Hogan-The man made wrestling into what it is today.He had it all.
Stone Cold-He also had it all.They all came to see Stone Cold.
Rock-Look at mic skills.
The Undertaker-The Deadman has always got over.The gimmick and ability won over the fans.
Ric Flair-He was the greatest ever.The fans came to see him and the Horsemen
Honorable Mention:The rest of the Horsemen,Cena,The rest of the NWO,Sting,DX
Top Five technical Abilites
Ric Flair-He has forgotten more moves than most people will ever learn.He is the true master of the figure four.He put on so many great matches it's hard to keep track.He was unbelievable.
Bret Hart-He was a truly amazing wrestler in all aspects.He did things wrestlers today dream about doing.And his match with Shawn Michaels at Mania was a masterpiece.People still talk about it.
Dean Malenko-The man of 1,000 holds.It wasn't a far-fetched gimmick.He may have actually known that many holds in reality.I really enjoy watching some of his matches with Benoit.
Chris Benoit-Whether or not you agree with his actions out of the ring(and I hope you don't),You have got to love the show he put on in the ring.He was another technical great.
Kurt Angle-He doesn't have many bad matches.He is a former olympic gold medalist.He kinows his technical wrestling and can put on a great match.
Honorable Mention:HBK,Bryan Danielson,Christopher Daniels,Jushin Liger,Eddie Guerrero,Terry Funk
top five high flyers
Jeff Hardy-He has done some spots and has put on high-flying fast-paced matches I still talk about.A truly amazing athlete in all ways.Plus he can wrestle.
Rey Misterio Jr.-An athletic high-flying superstar who excites me whenever he steps into the squared circle.I don't think there is a bad match on his DVD,which I happen to own.
Matt Hardy-Not as big of a risk-taker as his brother but still.Some of his ladder match action is amazing.
Edge-Gets a nod because of his mastering the TLC and ladder matches.He showed us how much of a risk-taker he can be and is an overall great wrestler.
Shelton Benjamin-His MITB ladder work is great.He can put on a great match with a lot of exciting action.
Honorable Mentions-Chris Jericho,Sabu,RVD,Matt Sydal,Jack Evans,Matt Cross
Hardcore
Terry Funk-Do I need to say anything.He is the one and only Hardcore Legend.May I give you example:ECW Born to be Wired 1997.He can wrestle,too.
Mick Foley/Cactus Jack-Some of his matches with Terry Funk were shocking.He has put on some awesome hardcore matches over the years.And can also wrestle.
Mad Man Pondo-The mad man from the Realm of Pain knows how to go hardcore.The man has wrestled in barbed wire,broken glass,and everything else.A true hardcore wrestler.
Sabu-Suicidal,Homicidal,Genocidal Death-Defying maniac.He injured himself for the fans.What a truly amazing wrestling career he has had.
Ian Rotten-Went hardcore with the best of them and came back for more.From IWA to ECW,he did so much.
Honorable Mention-Brain Damage,The Necro Butcher,The Juggulator,RVD,Axl Rotten,The Sandman,Tommy Dreamer
Top Five on the mic
Ric Flair-I'm not gonna say anything.If you don't know you are not a wrestling fan.
The Rock-The most electrifying man in Sports Entertainment.Nothing else to be said.
Stone Cold-Cut good promos in ECW and had great segments with everybody in WWE.
Triple H-He cuts the some of the most intense,hardcore promos ever.
Chris Jericho-He just has a natural way of being able to work magic on the mic.
Honorable Mention-John Cena,Mr.Kennedy,MVP
Biggest Draw
Hulk Hogan-The man made wrestling into what it is today.He had it all.
Stone Cold-He also had it all.They all came to see Stone Cold.
Rock-Look at mic skills.
The Undertaker-The Deadman has always got over.The gimmick and ability won over the fans.
Ric Flair-He was the greatest ever.The fans came to see him and the Horsemen
Honorable Mention:The rest of the Horsemen,Cena,The rest of the NWO,Sting,DX