The *Official* John Cena Thread

[Kyphael]

No, I support the theory of the fans being a part of the product, and not trying to be above it. For what reason could you possibly cheer someone who cheap shots people, tries to end their careers, and tells fans to go fuck themselves (in a manner of speaking)? If it was a real life fighter, people would hate him. So why do you cheer Randy Orton in wrestling?

I do dislike heels such as JBL and Vince McMahon (especially because he likes to think he knows what I like better than I do, much like you) but heels such as Edge and Randy Orton, who are generally rebellious and do not follow the rules I can relate to, because I’m not very different from them. I don’t always play by the book, so why would I cheer for some goody two shoes like John Cena when I can’t relate to the character?

The answer is because you want to prove that you know more about wrestling than you really do. And I don't have time nor the patience to put up with people who seem to think I give a damn about how smart they are to the business.

I don’t boo Cena because I think I’m above the business, I boo him because I find his character boring as hell and there ain’t a Goddamn thing he has ever said that appealed to me and I’m not going to act like an idiot and cheer for him just because I’m supposed to, according to all you Cena marks or because the WWE would like me to. If the WWE doesn’t like it; tough, they better start taking proper precautions to make sure only Cena marks can buy tickets to their events from now on. Otherwise, I’d like to see any other mark try to tell me, or convince me to act differently.

They also ENCOURAGE their fans to cheer for the good guys and boo the bad guys.

So, if you want to use this as your argument, you need to consider your hypocrisy.

I could care less what they encourage and do not encourage. If they want me to cheer for their heroes, they better damn well make sure they are writing them well because I’m not getting any discounts when it comes to spending hard-earned cash. If the heels are the only characters on their shows who, in my opinion, are written well or entertain me, then that is who I will root for in hopes they can beat that straight-laced, sorry excuse for journeyman called John Cena, even if I know it won’t happen.

You don't think that Chris Jericho wants people to boo him, or that Rey Mysterio wants people to cheer him?

I can stand to cheer for Mysterio, because half the time, the words that come out of his mouth aren’t a complete and utter pile of trash and sucking up. Not that he’s any good on the microphone to begin with but at least he has the in-ring skills to still whirl a crowd to compensate for it, something Cena and even Batista sorely lack. Batista has the charisma, he can tell a decent enough story in the ring but he's still bland. Batista is only ever as good as his partner.

No, they don't demand it. But, it is certainly implied, and has been for decades. Only since fans became idiots...ahem, smarks...did this become a problem.

If the internet exposed the business and it annoys you so much that it did, why do you frequent it? Is it some sort of crusade to try and convince people to follow the status quo? Things will NEVER be the same. You and the whole WWE can whine, moan and cry about it, or do something drastic to change the current product to increase more viewership and make more money. Meanwhile, I’ll cheer for the crop of entertainers that actually entertain me, not act like I’m cheering for a guy I find boring. I have nothing to gain and only my self-respect to lose. Hell, even in Star wars, I always rooted for the Sith, only because Luke Skywalker was a whiny little douche, much like Anakin before he turned to the dark side.

I wish they would. That would make the show better for those of us who understand the TRUE meaning of fan interaction in wrestling. Unlike people like you, who think that laying down $45 means you can act like an idiot.

Better in what way? Since when has it been great for everyone to act the same? The very show you are watching is full of characters that disagree with each other, have different opinions and often clash with one another. In your mind, how would it be great for just everyone to act and think the same way? Is predictability suddenly in nowadays? We as human beings are constantly in conflict with one another. That is why we write stories about characters in conflict with one another as well; this is what excites us, it's all inside us. Without conflict, things are at a stand still. If the “WWE Universe” all acted and thought the same way, the show would be like a run on John Cena promo. That was a zing.

Yes, and it is those people who have totally missed the point as to what professional wrestling is all about.

It’s about entertainment and the so-called “face” of the WWE fails to entertain me, so why should I tell myself he’s any good when he bores the lights out of me? Just to jump on the band wagon and fit in? I’ve never cared much for fitting in, which explains why I relate to heels better.

 

[Rusty]

Kyphael, I'm going to type this post in hope that you don't reply. I tried to give you facts and evidence for my points, while you only gave me your personal opinion and basically based everything on your opinion. You may think Cena sucks, but just remember that just because you think he sucks, it doesn't mean he should turn heel or change character just because you want him to.

He has become the biggest success within the company over the past few years. There is absolutely NO denying that. I'm not forcing you to like John Cena. My intention was to basically "educate" you on what makes a good face and a good entertainer. Even people that don't like Cena's character, still have the sense of knowledge to know that he is the best in the business today as well as being the top performer and entertainer in the company. Nobody tells a story in the ring, like John Cena.

You even admitted yourself that you've never liked the typical hero. While that certainly is a unique opinion, it just doesn't mean heroes suck or that they are boring. Also, me and Slyfox aren't jumping on any 'bandwagon' here because we have been Cena fans for a long time. While you may not want to admit it, you are indeed a smark. The only thing that makes you different from the average smark, is that you haven't used the "5 moves argument". You obviously took this argument more seriously than what I did. You forgot my initial intention and you got off track a few times.

Babyfaces and heels have their separate roles in wrestling. Getting a big reaction, means shit all to them if they don't receive enough cheers or boos depending on their character. Just remember, when you and others boo faces such as Cena, he takes offence to that. If everyone voiced their opinion in the WWE and didn't listen to what the WWE wanted them to do, it would be fairly difficult to configure the heels from the faces. As Sly mentioned, it is a priveledge that you get the chance to be in the arena watching these guys perform and it's a priveledge that they give you the opportunity to boo their heels and cheer their faces. If you don't obey that, then that's your problem. But the whole purpose of the WWE's storylines, is to tell a story through the 'bad guys' and the 'good guys' disagreeing and eventually wrestling one another. Without the typical heel and the typical face, there would be no WWE.

It's comments such as these that made me realize that we are just going around in circles and that you obviously don't understand my points very well:

Thank God Edge is champion over on SmackDown.

SO WHAT? They’re booing and cheering for who THEY want and as consumers, it is their right and no one has the right to tell them any different. You’re a foolish asshole for even trying.

Yeah and I’m not trying to purge the world of heroes, this is all fiction anyway. I’m just hoping heroes can be written better so I don’t have to grind my teeth every time one of them opens their mouth.

Again, I understand he lost this year but the manner of which they had him return from injury and beat the champion who was on a roll cleanly, then destroy him the next night makes him look indestructible all over again.

Yes, a man once had a vision of a perfect world as well and his name was Adolf Hitler. Extreme comparison, I know, but you are so adamant about convincing “smarks” to cheer heroes and boo villains that it’s scary.

I’m not criticizing the Cena character for this past week alone, only because I know this is the trend that will follow for months to come. Cena will continue to most likely than not, be booked as invincible, which makes for very piss poor television.

Please don't reply and all I ask is for you to realize what my overall intention was.

 

[Slyfox696]

I do dislike heels such as JBL and Vince McMahon (especially because he likes to think he knows what I like better than I do, much like you) but heels such as Edge and Randy Orton, who are generally rebellious and do not follow the rules I can relate to, because I’m not very different from them. I don’t always play by the book, so why would I cheer for some goody two shoes like John Cena when I can’t relate to the character?

That's ridiculous.

That's like saying you cheered for the big Russian in Rocky 4, because he took steroids, and booed Rocky because he was the patriotic American underdog. It's stupid.

And that's not even taking into consideration the sheer hypocrisy you show when you cheer those heels you "respect".

I don’t boo Cena because I think I’m above the business, I boo him because I find his character boring as hell

Then that is EXACTLY why you boo Cena; because you think you are above the business. You just said it yourself. The fans aren't supposed to sit in the crowd and evaluate a character. What the fuck is that? You're supposed to sit in the crowd and support Good vs. Evil. Don't you know anything about wrestling? No? Then I'll explain.

Professional wrestling, at it's very core, is an art of entertainment. The art comes not from moves being done, but rather a story being told. It's like a movie. And, just like in most movies, in most wrestling stories, you have Good vs. Evil. Good represents the best side of humanity. Sometimes flawed, always battling, but usually persevering. Evil represents that which we wish not to become. Cheaters, loathers, whiners, crybabies...all characteristics that good human beings try to avoid. Thus, when you watch wrestling, the whole purpose is for Good to battle Evil, and for you to emotionally invest yourself in support of Good to vanquish Evil. If you are watching wrestling for any other reason than that, then you are completely missing the boat.

So, when you say that you watch wrestling, to support the side of Evil, what you are really saying is that you just might be an asshole. Why would you be an asshole? Because, deep down, no one WANTS to be Evil. Sure, people try to be cool and pretend their Evil, but no one really wants to be. Even someone like Adolf Hitler, which you mentioned earlier, didn't do the things he did to be Evil, he did them in order to save his country and his people. Yes, he was completely off his rocker, but his intent wasn't pure evil. And thus, when you watch wrestling and cheer for the heels, that says to me you're not really interested in professional wrestling, as much as you are interested in trying to make people think you are cool.

Combine that with the fact the audience isn't suppose to cheer and boo based on what they perceive a character to be (considering wrestling wants you to believe it's real), and you now understand why your booing of John Cena is done because you think you are above the show, not a part of it.

and there ain’t a Goddamn thing he has ever said that appealed to me and I’m not going to act like an idiot and cheer for him just because I’m supposed to

That's fine. I don't care if you DON'T cheer him. Just sit on your hands and do nothing. But when you BOO him, then that is you trying to be above the show, and you doing nothing but showing your own ignorance toward professional wrestling.

Otherwise, I’d like to see any other mark try to tell me, or convince me to act differently.

You don't even understand what professional wrestling is about, and you want to use words like "mark". Do you even know the definition of a "mark"?

I could care less what they encourage and do not encourage.

What do you mean you "couldn't care less" about what they encourage? YOU WERE THE ONE WHO JUST BROUGHT IT UP. Allow me to serve you a refresher.

The WWE product, unlike a play, any play, ENCOURAGES their fanbase to be loud, otherwise the matches the athletes put on become stale.

See, you were just using what the WWE encouraged as a platform from which to base your theory it's ok to boo faces and cheer heels. So, why now when it's not as fortuitous that the WWE encourages their fans, do you suddenly not care?

You need to do a better job of remembering your own posts, and not make contradictions.

If the heels are the only characters on their shows who, in my opinion, are written well or entertain me, then that is who I will root for

I talked earlier about the hypocrisy you show by cheering the heel you respected. Let's delve further into that.

You say that if you like/respect a heel's work, you're going to cheer for him, and there's nothing the WWE can do about it. Let's take this line of thinking for a ride.

If you REALLY respected the work the heel was doing, wouldn't you BOO the heel? After all, that is what the heel is trying for, isn't it? Doesn't he want you to boo him? Wouldn't a sign of a heel doing a good job be that he gets booed? So, really, when you do the OPPOSITE of what a heel wants you to do, isn't that really being DISRESPECTFUL to the job the heel is doing?

So, really, by cheering a heel, you are again trying to show you are above the show and not a part of it, by taking away from those you say you like and respect. Those heels WANT you to boo them...so why are you being so disrespectful to the job they are doing, a job which you say they are doing well?

That, my friend, is called hypocrisy.

in hopes they can beat that straight-laced, sorry excuse for journeyman called John Cena, even if I know it won’t happen.

A journeyman John Cena.

OK, I'll bite. How is John Cena, who became World Champion only 7 years after breaking into the business, and 5 years on TV, a guy who is the biggest draw around, and who is only 31 years old...how is he considered a "journeyman".

I would love to hear this.

I can stand to cheer for Mysterio, because half the time, the words that come out of his mouth aren’t a complete and utter pile of trash and sucking up. Not that he’s any good on the microphone to begin with but at least he has the in-ring skills to still whirl a crowd to compensate for it, something Cena and even Batista sorely lack. Batista has the charisma, he can tell a decent enough story in the ring but he's still bland. Batista is only ever as good as his partner.

Wait wait...Mysterio's promos are better than Cena's?

What show have you been watching? The ONLY thing Mysterio ever says on the mic is the "goody two-shoes" comments. At least Cena sometimes goes more adult, Mysterio never does.

And, you don't even understand the point of professional wrestling, so who are you to say that Cena and Batista don't have in-ring skills? Besides that, you're completely wrong. Cena is arguably the best wrestler in the world today, and Batista is a very solid wrestler when he is healthy and his partner isn't sandbagging him (like Booker T did).

If the internet exposed the business and it annoys you so much that it did, why do you frequent it?

This has NOTHING to do with what I said.

Allow me to break it down in simpler terms, so that you might have a chance to understand.

I'm not talking about how I react after becoming smarter to the business, I'm talking about how the self-absorbed people like you react after becoming smarter to the business. People like you who think they are above the show, and don't understand their proper place in it. People like you for whom the phrase "a little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing" most certainly applies.

You don't have the first clue about professional wrestling. That is completely obvious, just from reading your posts here. You don't understand what it's about, what the purpose is, what it means to be good, etc. You don't even come close, and it's obvious. And yet, because you label yourself a "smark", you think that makes you some kind of a higher level fan, which you then use to push your (wrongful) elitist attitude around, praising heels and booing faces, while never realizing just how ridiculous you are when doing so.

People like you are why wrestlers don't take wrestling fans seriously. Because you think you know much more than you really do.

Is it some sort of crusade to try and convince people to follow the status quo?

No, I post on the Internet about wrestling because I enjoy wrestling, and I enjoy trying to teach other people about the true meaning of professional wrestling. While I can't come close to reaching all of the misguided people like yourself, I at least can try and educate those who do come to me.

I have nothing to gain and only my self-respect to lose.

Lose your self-respect? What the fuck are you talking about? How will you lose your self-respect by watching an entertainment program? See, it's statements like these which show you take yourself WAY to seriously, and are too worried about being "cool" and not as worried as you are about doing your part to better the product.

Hell, even in Star wars, I always rooted for the Sith, only because Luke Skywalker was a whiny little douche, much like Anakin before he turned to the dark side.

I don't even know what to say to this bundle of nonsense.

Better in what way? Since when has it been great for everyone to act the same?

Royal Rumble 1990. Watch it, and then get back to me. And then tell me that there wasn't an engaging presence, getting you caught up in the drama of the match. And tell me that engaging presence wasn't because of the crowd's involvement.

It’s about entertainment and the so-called “face” of the WWE fails to entertain me, so why should I tell myself he’s any good when he bores the lights out of me? Just to jump on the band wagon and fit in? I’ve never cared much for fitting in, which explains why I relate to heels better.

And see, once again, comments like this prove my original point that you try to be ABOVE the show, not part of it.

All you have done, in this post, is prove my point and show you don't really understand professional wrestling. And that you have the mentality of a 16 year old. Maybe when you grow up, you can understand some of the deeper, more abstract, happenings in wrestling, the forces which TRULY make wrestling an enjoyable show.

 

[Kyphael]

Sincerely, the following post is not sarcasm, I'm not trying to pro-long this debate anymore than it already has, I'm getting a headache just trying to imagine what I would even say.

I can bow out and admit when I lost a debate and/or argument. I contradicted myself along the way, it's a fault I have, often getting heated and taking arguments such as these too seriously just because I'm trying to win. Funny thing is, I've been watching wrestling since 2000 and I thought I understood what it was all about; good vs. evil but obviously I still have a LOT to learn. Professional wrestling, what it is today is a breed of many things and what I know, from basic story-telling I study and write isn't quite enough to understand the business; well maybe now I do understand it a bit better. Maybe the fact that I genuinely always prefer darker characters (for the corrupt and villainous aspect of it, not because I want to be so evil myself) makes it harder for me to completely grasp professional wrestling, because I symathize with the villains so much. You said yourself, Hitler did evil things but in his mind, they weren't evil at all.

I've always cheered heels because I wanted to go against the faces, not to comform but I never thought about it like that; a heel doesn't want to be cheered. Thanks for clarifying that. I don't know if I'll start booing heels though, I can't help but support them, maybe just because I prefer the way their characters are written. I guess that makes me a smark. I'm into story-telling, writing a novel myself where the dark forces dominate much of the story. I believe good, true good, must suffer at all times, because that's where the drama lies, only for the tirumph to be truly liberating and fulfilling, even for myself after writing such horrible things for so long, it's like a feeling of relief washing over me. I don't think John Cena or many of WWE's faces suffer enough, but that doesn't change the fact that booing them is wrong.

Oh, and I referred to John Cena as a journeman because he is the hero of the show. His career up to now has paralleled the hero's journey; a young man with a dream set out to become one of the greatest WWE Champions of his time and that he has. Perhaps with little hurtles along the way, I didn't always agree with the way he was written, but I certainly won't boo him anymore.

 

[IrishCanadian25]

Sly, I have a conundrum I'd like you to tackle for me, then. Correct me if I am wrong (since I didn't have the patience to read the 10 or so pages I missed) but you are saying the following:

1. The job of the fan is to be entertained, and to support the side of "good" vs the side of "evil."

2. A fan who cheers the evil character or boos the good character is making a statement that they are "above the business" and would better serve that wrestler by sitting on their hands and not making a sound. Or better yet, show that heel wrestler you like them by booing them mercilessly, allowing them to be successful at the role they are playing.

Is that correct? Is that basically what you are going for?

There's a reason I am asking this question, because I want to make sure I react to the right points, lest I end up like Kypheal here...

Sly just answered YES to these points in the Bar Room, which brings me to this:

Two of the most epic occurances in recent professional wrestling history, also two of the most profitable, were:

1. Steve Austin at WrestleMania 13 surviving the Submission Match with Bret Hart, and the fans deciding to cheer him and boo Hart. The result of this reaction by the fans to "be above the business" was the greatest double turn in wrestling history - and the birth of Stone Cold Steve Austin as the 2nd greatest draw in wrestling history, as well as the start of th 2nd wrestling boom.

2. Hollywood Hogan staring down the Rock, only for the fans to go wild at the return of Hogan, despite a rabid heel persona. The result? A spine tingling posedown, and one of the greatest moments in WrestleMania history. This also meant the return of the Red and Yellow, and jump start in fanship, a boost in merch sales, and a far better character than a retread of the nWo would have been.

Sly, if fans followed your "rules of wrestling" and only booed the heels and cheered the faces as dictated, these two events would never have happened. Austin may not have been what he became, and Hogan may have ended his WWE career in a played out nWo persona.

How do you explain that?

 

[Super Crazy]

John Cena. What can someone say about this man that hasn't been said over 1,000,000 times already. Cena is the workhorse of today's industry and he sure as hell is one of the best wrestlers there is today. Cena cuts amazing promos and shares his story not only through his promos, but also through his ring work. When he steps out on that stage, you instantly feel his emotions until the minute that last bell rings after the 3 count. Now now, I admit, I've been back and forth with Cena and liking and disliking him. But I've been doing some debating with myself and come to realize, that he is just like Stone Cold or the Rock in the Attitude Era, he is the BIG draw for the company. All of these fans who just go out there and boo him, it's because you don't understand the meaning behind it all, and I don't just mean his character, I mean his work ethic and everything. I mean seriously, the man gets a herniated disc in his neck, and is back in three months? Who else could pull that off? The way Cena works night in and night out become a better wrestler and better entertainer, it's surprising, and that is why he's risen through the ranks so quickly to a Grade A Champion. The younger guys who don't give a damn at all, they should learn from him. Now, now ,Sly, before you come back to read my post and pick that apart. I would like to attempt to defend that statement. I'm not saying that all these younger up and comers don't all just not care. I'm saying that none of them have the work ethic or want to learn about the industry and learn from the past. They all just seem to want to go out there and do their own thing. Now back to Cena, I'm so sick of hearing all these comments about Cena sucking and not being the best and how people can't mesh with his character. You don't have to mesh with someone's character they portray to a respect a man and his work. Seriously, to all you people out there who say you are true fans of the business, just give it a rest. Just because all of you run your mouths on this forum, the product isn't going to change. Cena will be around for a long time, and be a top contender if not constantly a Champion for years to come. Cena sells, and not just because of his merchandise, the REAL fans, they understand how things work and they realize how great of a worker he is. So my question to all of you is, why can't you see that too?

 

[RBH]

I am going to ask Sly another question. Who has John Cena NOT faced yet that you would like to see him face, straight out one on one for pride or title? Clearly Cena is the best draw right now and to see him go one on one with anyone would draw ratings but if Cena were to have a high profile match, many people have speculated that they would like to see Austin-Cena just to sort of pass the torch. (for the record, I never said that, just people I have heard). I know from the past that you might have liked Cena-Hogan (but Hogan and WWE are not talking right now). I just believe that Cena should be given new feuds for the year of 2009 instead of the same (Orton) I mean Orton vs Cena is nice and all but its been done to death. After Cena ends his program with Jericho, I wont want to see that for a long while.

 

[Slyfox696]

Sly, I have a conundrum I'd like you to tackle for me, then. Correct me if I am wrong (since I didn't have the patience to read the 10 or so pages I missed) but you are saying the following:

1. The job of the fan is to be entertained, and to support the side of "good" vs the side of "evil."

2. A fan who cheers the evil character or boos the good character is making a statement that they are "above the business" and would better serve that wrestler by sitting on their hands and not making a sound. Or better yet, show that heel wrestler you like them by booing them mercilessly, allowing them to be successful at the role they are playing.

Is that correct? Is that basically what you are going for?

There's a reason I am asking this question, because I want to make sure I react to the right points, lest I end up like Kypheal here...

Sly just answered YES to these points in the Bar Room, which brings me to this:

Two of the most epic occurances in recent professional wrestling history, also two of the most profitable, were:

1. Steve Austin at WrestleMania 13 surviving the Submission Match with Bret Hart, and the fans deciding to cheer him and boo Hart. The result of this reaction by the fans to "be above the business" was the greatest double turn in wrestling history - and the birth of Stone Cold Steve Austin as the 2nd greatest draw in wrestling history, as well as the start of th 2nd wrestling boom.

2. Hollywood Hogan staring down the Rock, only for the fans to go wild at the return of Hogan, despite a rabid heel persona. The result? A spine tingling posedown, and one of the greatest moments in WrestleMania history. This also meant the return of the Red and Yellow, and jump start in fanship, a boost in merch sales, and a far better character than a retread of the nWo would have been.

Sly, if fans followed your "rules of wrestling" and only booed the heels and cheered the faces as dictated, these two events would never have happened. Austin may not have been what he became, and Hogan may have ended his WWE career in a played out nWo persona.

How do you explain that?

In both of those cases, IC, those turns were not unplanned. At Wrestlemania 13, the match was designed as the double turn, as fans had already begun cheering Stone Cold. The match was layed out, in a manner that would make fans boo Hart and cheer Stone Cold. That wasn't a case of the fans necessarily dictating who they were cheering/booing, it was the WWE urging them in the direction they wanted.

The same goes for Hogan vs. Rock, and the build-up to that. And we know this to be true due to the aftermath, where Hall and Nash attack Hogan. In both cases, the fans were still going along with what the WWF/E had planned/wanted.

But, let's say for argument's sake, those weren't planned and intended. The point you are trying to make is that special moments can happen when the crowd reacts contrary to what they should. That might be, but I'd rather take 364 days of wrestling where wrestling fans do what they should, instead of hoping for that special moment where it all clicks together. Take a match like the Royal Rumble 1990. The fans were incredibly into the match, and their fervor for the faces and heels was amazing...and it lent to some AMAZING moments. It gave DiBiase mega heel heat, Jake Roberts an incredible reaction on his way to the ring, the place exploding when Warrior eliminated DiBiase, and a near explosion when Hogan and Warrior faced off.

For every case that you can find where a wrongful crowd made a memorable moment, I GUARANTEE I can find a memorable moment where a good crowd made a memorable moment. I mean, how great would Sting taking out the nWo have been if the crowd would have been booing Sting as he did it? I bet we wouldn't remember it with such fondness today, do you?

 

[IrishCanadian25]

In both of those cases, IC, those turns were not unplanned. At Wrestlemania 13, the match was designed as the double turn, as fans had already begun cheering Stone Cold. The match was layed out, in a manner that would make fans boo Hart and cheer Stone Cold. That wasn't a case of the fans necessarily dictating who they were cheering/booing, it was the WWE urging them in the direction they wanted.

The same goes for Hogan vs. Rock, and the build-up to that. And we know this to be true due to the aftermath, where Hall and Nash attack Hogan. In both cases, the fans were still going along with what the WWF/E had planned/wanted.

But, let's say for argument's sake, those weren't planned and intended. The point you are trying to make is that special moments can happen when the crowd reacts contrary to what they should. That might be, but I'd rather take 364 days of wrestling where wrestling fans do what they should, instead of hoping for that special moment where it all clicks together. Take a match like the Royal Rumble 1990. The fans were incredibly into the match, and their fervor for the faces and heels was amazing...and it lent to some AMAZING moments. It gave DiBiase mega heel heat, Jake Roberts an incredible reaction on his way to the ring, the place exploding when Warrior eliminated DiBiase, and a near explosion when Hogan and Warrior faced off.

For every case that you can find where a wrongful crowd made a memorable moment, I GUARANTEE I can find a memorable moment where a good crowd made a memorable moment. I mean, how great would Sting taking out the nWo have been if the crowd would have been booing Sting as he did it? I bet we wouldn't remember it with such fondness today, do you?

I'm certainly not saying that you can't find far MORE moments where fans did what you claim they are supposed to vs those in which they acted in a contrarian manner. Hogan vs Andre. Foley winning the WWF Title from The Rock on Monday Night Raw with DX and Austin interfering. But still...

I have to question your logic on the two moments I presented. WWF was still marketing Bret Hart as the clean cut, fresh faced, technically sound champion. Now, I concede that WWF may have realized the cultural swing towards the rebel and away from the innocent hero, and obviously the finish to the match was booked in such a way as to put Austin over as a face, but the crowd was REACTING with the Austin 3:16 signs, and on every DVD you watch, WWF management clearly states that was unexpected, and dictated the direction of the business.

As for Rock / Hogan, I have a starkly different recollection of the build of that feud than you do. I recall Hogan driving the truck into the Rock's car, where he expected The Rock to be, in an attempt to take him out. That's a pure heel move against the biggest face in the business. I refuse to accept that Hogan's face turn was planned. He was being booked as a mega-heel for the weeks leading up to WrestleMania X8, but fans decided to get behind Hogan for nostalgic value. If fans weren't enticed to think and react as they saw fit, those moments certainly wouldn't be remembered with the fondness we speak of them today.

 

[DetectiveZelix]

My thing with Cena is, look at the rock or rocky maivia in 97 when the fans were screaming die rocky die, wwe diodnt plan to make rocky heel until they heard all the die rocky die chants and all of the negative signs and at the time rocky ffought for the fans and was a goody two shoes, so with the "smarks" booing Rocky's goody two shoe character it allowed Rocky tobecome the rock which made him one of the infamous heels in the WWF which led to him being the real peioples champion and so and so, too me that was what was happening to cena but wwe refused to make him heel thus disappointing so many fans that would have liked to see it, i think the fans wouldnt mind a little kiss my ass action form cena, and badass attitude, hes too soft IMO, not as a wrestler but as a character he gets too patriotic and it gets ugly, Austin wasnt patriotic he did ask the fans to give him a hell yeah but he didnt come out saying i love you guys and im gonna be your hero, he was strait badasss all the way through

 

[RBH]

As I have said previously, I believe that they are booking Cena much better than they did 2 years ago. I like that Jericho got the up on him this past monday night. Now it leaves the possibility of Cena going back after him the next week. I just like consistency andbalance in the storylines and we are getting that in the Cena-Y2J feud and that is what is benefiting him. He is fine in the role he is and is getting cheered by almost everyone these days.

 

[mccannman]

ok im not gonna go on saying cena sucks cause he doesnt,everyone knows he lacks extreme when it comes to wrestling,but his mic skills or good and his overall passion is amazing,but i never though he should have even one the wwe title,the fact is cena is a kids favorite like hogan was ,eats your vitimins and all that crap,i dont think theres room for that in wwe,cena popularity to becoming champ was his rapper gimmic,and i believe hes still living off that,the reason people his age and teens dont like cena,is because he isnt REAL hes only saying wat u wanta hear,doing wat he thinks you want hes not independent in his own mind,i mean take his return it was like he never left,came back same look dressiing like a fan,and talking for 10 mins how he loves them.this is why people like orton cause face or heel orton doesnt give a crap wat people think of him ,only what he thinks of him. so all in all cena doesnt suck but if he ever wants real fans hes needs to be more real and well of course improve in the ring,and if u say he can then your just lieing to yourself,watch bryan danielson or many others if you want to know what wrestling really is

 

[Azrael Cain]

John Cena won me over the moment he stepped through the curtain in 2002. His look, his charisma, his desire and his attitude was a breath of fresh air, and I told myself "I've got to keep an eye on this man." And he shined during his heel days on SmackDown and as the United States champion.

I will admit that I think the WWE jumped the gun with John, but to his credit he made the best out of the situation and proved himself. And ever since the jumping of the gun, he has been chastised and criticized non-stop by everyone on the IWC. I will admit that when his reign as World Champion dragged on, I was a little uneasy but mostly because it was the "same old crap," as so many signatures often point out. And even the non IWC fans got sick of him...

...but, Cena's work ethic and determination and desire cannot be matched or disputed. He is a rarity in the industry for someone his age. Let me repeat that: he is 31 years old and his desire and love for the business is unmatched and unrivaled. John Cena is a rarity. And with that said, I respect and admire him as a person. I've also come to respect him as a wrestler.

Cena's promo on the Dec 1 episode of Raw was monumental. It was amazing, and it legitimized him and helped him shed whatever was left of a "gimmick" he may have had. What we are getting now is John Cena - the person, not John Cena the wrestler. And he has carved out a niche for himself, and has said it himself: "I love these people, whether they boo me or cheer me. They pay to see me, and they will get what they paid for." And that type of mentality and attitude I cannot hate or criticize.

In the end, it comes down to the fact that Cena = money. Whether you hate the man or love him, he brings in the dollar dollar bill into the WWE. And that is why he is champion now. And while I would have loved for him to chase the belt and truly overcome, and truly legitimize himself as a "People's Hero," I can forgive and understand why he won it back.

 

[klunderbunker]

Now I've never been a Cena fan and I've never claimed to be, but to me there's no doubt that Cena has improved Raw ggreatly since he's returned. He is the absolute best in the company right now and he deserves to be on top. The ratings clearly indicate that I'm not alone in this thought process either. The feud that he has with Jericho is elevating Jericho as well, who flopped as champion, just like he always has. WWE as a whole is going up right now, and I think the primary reason is Cena. He brings that main event feel to his matches and the shows that he's on. I still don't like him, but I respect him more and more every week.

 

[RkoLegend]

i dont like John cena or what ever he is not entertainer, and i think in wrestling company
need have good wrestling and good mic talk, if the wrestler have this, he have the crowd.
but this what i think, i can wrong, he need learnd from Edge

 

[Shocky]

i dont like John cena or what ever he is not entertainer, and i think in wrestling company
need have good wrestling and good mic talk, if the wrestler have this, he have the crowd.
but this what i think, i can wrong, he need learnd from Edge

Oh boy. See kids, this is why you stay in school. The English language is your friend. Typing in txt tlk iznt kewl.

So I'll Dissect it for the common man, because you all know, I'm cool like that.

i dont like John cena or what ever he is not entertainer,

I believe he was saying, I do not like John Cena, because he is not an entertainer, or simply put Czena Sux.

i think in wrestling company
need have good wrestling and good mic talk, if the wrestler have this, he have the crowd.,

Shocky Says: I think for a wrestling company, a good wrestler has more then five moves of doom, and can cuta a good promo, if he can do this, he has the support of the smarks.

Shocky's Take: Yes, because as we all know, the guy that cuts the best promos in the business obviously isn't good enough. It's obvious that Cena sucks because the 30 or 40 people in the crowd that still think it's the Attitude Era and want to boo Cena are the people to listen to. It has nothign to do with them being the vocal minority.

but this what i think, i can wrong, he need learnd from Edge

Shocky Says: This is my opinion, but I could be wrong. If Cena wanted to be good, he should learn from Edge.

Shocky's Take: Well, your opinion is your opinion, but it's probably wrong. Nothing wrong with Edge, but Cena isn't an Edge-esque wrestler. Edge works a different style, oh yeah, because he's a heel.

 

[ventriloquist]

I think cena is good... im a cena fan because of how he shows his personality in and out the ring]. I admire him because of that. I just saw a video diary of cena on wwe. Its awesome. He's a kind dude unlike any other wrestler. I think you guys should watch it.Shows what the true meaning of being a wrestling superstar is. I like the part of where a cab driver stops and greets 'em and when poses for pictures with the kids..

i dont like John cena or what ever he is not entertainer, and i think in wrestling company
need have good wrestling and good mic talk, if the wrestler have this, he have the crowd.
but this what i think, i can wrong, he need learnd from Edge

Excuse me but I disagree, in my opinion, i think he is a good entertainer. Today, you see that he is the most charismatic wrestling superstar.. He's "charismatic" then maybe those audiences look at him as entertaining. If youre charismatic then youre entertaining..

Chris jericho and john cena's rivalry today is giving raw high ratings. Now maybe thats a statement that proves to us that cena indeed is a charismatic wrestler

 

[OIL]

John Cena has really proved why he is the biggest superstar in the wrestling industry since his return. He really has helped to re-invent RAW. His matches are entertaining and his promo's are the best in the business. Anyone who bitches about him being the World Heavyweight Champion really should give it a rest, and actually go and see what a good job he does as champion. Obviously, we don't want another year long run, but, if it's done well enough with the right storylines then why not?

 

[klunderbunker]

Something that I really have liked about Cena in the last two weeks has been the way the booking for him has gone. It's kind of a throwback to the 80s/Attitude Era. Cena has been put into the mixed tag against Glamarella and then last night the ten man tag. Neither of these matches were meant to be taken too seriously and it let the people have a thrill by seeing the world champion wrestle. The title wasn't a factor at all, yet he still was able to look dominant. Part of the issue I have with WWE is everything has to seemingly top the last week. Putting Cena in matches like he's been in the last 2 weeks have been a nice break. Not too serious, but just enough to make it fun.

 

[Milkyway!]

Something that I really have liked about Cena in the last two weeks has been the way the booking for him has gone. It's kind of a throwback to the 80s/Attitude Era. Cena has been put into the mixed tag against Glamarella and then last night the ten man tag. Neither of these matches were meant to be taken too seriously and it let the people have a thrill by seeing the world champion wrestle. The title wasn't a factor at all, yet he still was able to look dominant. Part of the issue I have with WWE is everything has to seemingly top the last week. Putting Cena in matches like he's been in the last 2 weeks have been a nice break. Not too serious, but just enough to make it fun.

I think this is the first time I've ever agreed with you. But, the way they are booking him right now, is amazing. While, it was fun, and laid-back to watch. I think Cena needs a really hot fued to get going. He can do it with Jericho, I remember before Jericho got fired. He locked in the Walls of Jericho, I was jumping up and down screaming at the TV for Cena not to tap. Thats when I really loved Cena. I've kinda gotten bored because hes not had a really good fued since Orton punted his dad in the head. IMO.

 

[SuperKick36]

I think Cena and Cryme Tyme need to create a stable.

Why? They have similar Gimmicks, Cryme Tyme would be able to back Cena and visa versa, and having two guy's in Cena's corner would make his character stronger.

On the downside, it could take away Cena's "superhero I'm invincible and I'm all by myself" part of his gimmick. But why can't he have some side-kicks?

 

[Lee]

I think Cena and Cryme Tyme need to create a stable.

Why? They have similar Gimmicks, Cryme Tyme would be able to back Cena and visa versa, and having two guy's in Cena's corner would make his character stronger.

On the downside, it could take away Cena's "superhero I'm invincible and I'm all by myself" part of his gimmick. But why can't he have some side-kicks?

Or maybe the fact that they did this this time last year and really it didn't go anywhere?

I'd liek to ask why you think Cena needs a stable because in my opinion Cena doesn't need a stable or any cronies.

What's the point in a stable?
To have guys watching your back a technique used by heels...well he's not a heel now is he? Then you have a stable to get someone over. Does Cena need to get over? NO he's pretty much the most over person in the company, so does he need a stable? NO

 

[klunderbunker]

The thing is that was tried before and it worked just ok. Cryme Tyme and Cena are people that click together ok but not as anything huge. With Cena as the champion already and the monster face there would be no need to put him in a stable at the moment. When Hogan was friends with Big Boss Man, Tugboat or anyone else, they were just loosely associated. That could be ok, but I'd stay away from anything official. Cena works much better doing his me against the world thing as it makes him look like the superface that they want him to be. Could work but I wouldn't go full speed with it.

 

[Jageroth]

John cena uses the same dam moves every match. He builds up steam hulks out and goes nuts. Here it goes.......

He hits the jumping spin neckbreaker, hits the off the top leg drop....hits his basterdized blue thunder power bomb.....the five knuckle shuffle. then the fu.

Same thing everynight, sometimes he uses the stfu to mix it up. Its boring....its just a longer version of hulking up. He needs to go back to fcw and learn some new move sets.

 

[Jane]

I get that he is popular and a good wrestler and all of that, but I am sick of him being in every single title match. He rarely has a feud that doesn't center around the title. I don't hate him and he must make money, but I am bored out of my mind with him coming out every night holding that title. How did he even get it this time? Back from injury and instantly thrust into the title shot, cutting Jericho's reign short, I might add, and then dominating. I'm just bored of him. I don't exactly want him to face Orton at Wrestlemania as it's been done to death, but if that's the case, Orton better win or else... uhh.. I'll be mad.