[Official] John Cena Thread

[Slyfox696]

Yes, but as you yourself have told me in the past, it is the fans that buy the tickets and the merchandise and come to the live events.

Exactly. And more people buy tickets, merchandise and come to the shows for Cena than for anyone else. So, obviously he CAN wrestle.

So the fact that even some of them are chanting 'you can't wrestle' is significant.

Why? Are their opinions more valid than Kurt Angle, Chris Jericho, Vince McMahon, Bret Hart, Ric Flair, and Hulk Hogan?

Look, we all have our own opinions of who we like and who we don't, but most of us don't come of as self righteous as you have in this thread. Saying that because you cheer for Cena and I cheer for guys like Edge, who are in fact very good performers, you are so much smarter than the rest of us and that we are idiots.

I never said that.

I just said that Cena is a better wrestler, and that all facts support my statement.

I don't 'hate' Cena as much as others do. When he was a heel or balancing the line between bad and good, I did like his work. But I wish the WWE would stop making him into one of those 'say your prayers and eat your vitamins' types of faces that he is these days or making it look like he is unbeatable. Fans get restless with that gimmick as you have seen in the past year. He should go back to hitting guys with his chain and not being sorry for it like he did a few years back.

Why should his character regress? Isn't the whole point of "character development" to actually develop? His character now is different than it was years ago, and it should be. Hell, his character is different now than it was a year and a half ago.

The problem with that is the majority of his fanbase is no older than 13 these days.

And the majority of his haters are in the 16-24 male demographic.

And yet, no matter how old you are, or what gender you are, more people come to see Cena, either to win or lose, than anyone else in the company. And that's undisputable.

 

[Monkey_Mania]

Really? Your asking who is better?

Its definitly John Cena. Cena is the better entertainer, the better promo man, and a hell of a lot better draw. God im getting so sick of people saying Cena doesnt know very many moves. SO WHAT!?!?! He makes them work. Matts a decent worker but nowhere in John Cena's League. Matts slightly and I use that word loosely, he is slightly entertaining, a very average promo guy, and he couldnt draw a fly to garbage. Maybe if you would have asked who is better "Jeff Hardy or John Cena" it would have been closer, but it still wouldnt turn out in your favor.

 

[motorcitymaniac]

I am not a "Cena fanatic", but I do like the guy. He has had a lot of very good matches and is very good at promos. He is certainly not my favorite guy, but he gets way too much crap from a lot of people. To be at the level that he is right now, in the main event/title picture every time, you have to be doing something right.

 

[DerringerEagle]

And the majority of his haters are in the 16-24 male demographic.

And yet, no matter how old you are, or what gender you are, more people come to see Cena, either to win or lose, than anyone else in the company. And that's undisputable.[/QUOTE]

Undisputable how? Did you take a poll of every fan who has been to see a WWE show in the past few years? I'm sure just as many people come to see HHH or HBK as they do Cena. I won't deny the guy is popular(or a popular target) but that is the opinion of one John Cena fan. That doesn't make it the truth.

 

[Slyfox696]

Undisputable how? Did you take a poll of every fan who has been to see a WWE show in the past few years? I'm sure just as many people come to see HHH or HBK as they do Cena. I won't deny the guy is popular(or a popular target) but that is the opinion of one John Cena fan. That doesn't make it the truth.

The truth is found in PPV buys, individual segment ratings, merchandise, and house show attendance. The WWE gets information on individual Raw segments, and John Cena scores higher than anyone on Raw consistently. When John Cena became the phenomen he did, live event attendance jumped significantly...oh, and HHH and HBK don't work house shows. John Cena merchandise makes a large percent of merchandise sales. For example, in 2004, he made up 20% of merchandise sales for the WWE by himself...as a midcarder on Smackdown. Now he's a prominent player, and has a ton of merchandise dedicated to him...how much do you think he's moving now?

Everything supports my statement. The average Raw rating in 2004 was a 3.7. That was before Cena. The average Raw rating in 2005 with Cena was a 3.8. The average Raw rating in 2006 was a 3.9. Before Chris Benoit, the average Raw rating in 2007 was a 3.9. Even after Benoit AND the steroid scandal, the average Raw rating in 2007 with John Cena as champion was a 3.7. When Cena got injured, Orton's reign drew an average 3.3. And I think Triple H's current reign has only seen 3.3 one time...when John Cena was on for a large part of the show.

Those are cold hard facts. And support for my statement.

 

[IrishCanadian25]

I will now stand side by side with SlyFox against those who hate John Cena under the foolish "he can't wrestle" pretense. No longer will Sly carry the flag alone.

What Sly has been saying to everyone for the last year was very recently echoed to me by Al Snow and Bill DeMott at the WZ Fan Slam. The point of professional wrestling, in and of itself, is NOT to go out and wrestle the "5-Star Match." The point is to go out and WORK insofar as to draw as much money and earn as much of a crowd pop as possible in your position on the card. Whether John Cena is the curtain jerker or the main event, the man draws money and fans - and he earns a crowd pop.

Whether he draws a 12-year-old boy to cheer him and wear his chain gang t-shirt or a 35-year-old man who shows up to boo the shit out of him is immaterial - those two tickets cost the same amount of money. Al Snow explained to me that a 30-second segment on Raw costs $360,000 in TV time to produce, not including the fixed costs such as building rent, concession costs, insurance, lighting, etc. The entire reason Cena is there is because he brings more fans out than Matt Hardy or Shelton Benjamin combined!

Great matches are well and good in the end, but they are not the reason for professional wrestling. If you tune in to see Cena lose to someone, hoping he gets a beat down, IT IS STILL CENA WHO DRAWS YOU TO WATCH, NO MATTER YOUR AGE, GENDER, RACE, SOCIO-ECONOMIC BRACKET, OR ANYTHING ELSE!

And polling fans is a ludicrous popularity contest - the fact that someone on these boards even suggested that as a viable litmus test is insane. Ratings, PPV sales, Merchandise. THAT is what Vince McMahon is looking for, and THAT is what earns John Cena his spot - it sure as hell isn't chain wrestling or high spots.

Bill DeMott said in no uncertain terms that the downfall of a wrestler and of wrestling in general is when talent stops looking at drawing money and having their match make sense as the goal, and starts seeking the approval of the "smart" fans. Prior to WrestleMania 3, neither Hulk Hogan NOR Andre the Giant could hit the top rope, chain wrestler, or climb a ladder effectively. But those two still sold out the Pontiac Silverdome. THAT is the reason WrestleMania 3 drew the way it did! NOBODY KNEW SAVAGE AND STEAMBOAT WERE GOING TO DO A "5-STAR MATCH," SO THEY WERE NOT THE DRAW!!! Cena is the draw now, along with HHH and to a lesser extent, Edge. (Edge did have some impressive ratings numbers during his short RAW title run a few years back, though it was partially fueled by a feud with...you guessed it...John Cena!)

You can't battle back monetary stats, facts, and figures with "...but he sucks because he only does 5 or 6 moves." That's crap, and we will poke more holes in it than a Criss Angel laying on spiked fence.

 

[DJ]

Amen Slyfox and IC.

If it wasn't for Cena,RAW wouldn't be getting 3.3-7 .Cena is like Hogan-he draws in the new genaration of fans as Hogan did and as Austin did.He sells merch and keeps the company rolling.I am not saying hes keeping the company alive but hes helping quite alot.

Can Cena Wrestle?Hell yeah.His match with HBK in london was of the chain,His I Quit match with JBL was also a good effort and His recent brawl with Umaga was also another fine effort.Say what you will but this man never gives up.When ever he has a bad match he'll try study on how to improve.A real student of the sport.

 

[kingrko]

John Cena may not have a ton of moves, but I think it's just because Vince thinks those moves will always sell. Not true! That STFU hasn't been used lately, and hopefully it's done! It doesn't even look like it hurts! Hopefully Cena can get a lot quicker in the ring and get a different finisher to replace the STFU. His FU is okay but last time on Raw the impact didn't look that great. I do like that whole top rope fame-aser he's got, and I think that'd make a better finisher than the STFU.

 

[OverkillInc_Rage]

I respect the hell out of John Cena, That doesn't mean I like him or his character but I do respect him a lot. I have been a big time Cena Hater and for all the reasons most do hate him. I origionally didn't like him because I thought he acted like a stupid wigger plain and simple, I also liked what someone else said about " He was never at a low point, he never seemed to have to struggle through anything, or really push to get where he wanted" They made the example of Bret Hart with the 5 or 6 moves of doom, we watched Bret come from the dungeon and training and so on, tag competition, singles, ic picture, and up to WWF world. We saw him struggle and suffer and climbto the top, not so with Cena. It was like one day in 03 he got a title and was never without one for the next 5 years. that got old. For a while I thought there were other guys who deserved to be champ more than him but the point and fact remains that everything IrishCanadian25 said was true. It is all about who produces the most money and as said it is a bad thing for business when the talent starts worrying about appealing to the smart fans and so on. So John Cena's fan base is all 8 year olds and 13 year old girls who think he's sooo hot. They are fans. Besides John Cena is a pretty humble guy, he knows that the fans hate him, he know all of that but still puts on the best match he can day in and out. I like the fact that he dropped the title, his injury was real but he was loosing it to Orton anyways, It gave orton a chance to be the biggest heel for a while, and made him look good and bad in a way. I loved his title reign, I thought it was great, he cheated, dq'd, anything, and kept his title. I also loved watching Triple H beat him for it, Finally The Game reclaims what is rightfuly his. After making him loose at WM 5 years in a row, I think he earned this title reign. I mean really Main eventing 5 wrestlmania, or close to main event, and loosing everytime, that's bullshit. He deserves his title, I just wish he would bring out a new one that didn't look so ridiculous. Since Cena has been out a while and not such a huge part of the title sceen, I've been getting to like him more. It wasn't that I didn't like him, I just couldn't stand him for being the guy on top that wins no matter what. If he was Hogan it would be different but it got old fast watching everyone loose to John Cena. I think that hurts the value of the other guys.

 

[HBK-aholic]

John Cena bores the hell out of me, and even I have to go with Cena here. Like him or not, he is great for the buesiness, and that's something Cena haters need to understand. On a personal preference level, I really dislike him. He doesn't entertain me, which is the reason I watch the WWE.

I haven't seen the official figures, but it doesn't take a genius to work out how much Cena draws, and that he has a huge fan base. Cena is Hogan on a smaller level. He's a role model to kids, the sort parents love their children looking up to. And as long as he's doing that for the WWe, Hardy will never be seen as better.

I used to be a big Matt Hardy fan, and on a personal preference I'd put him over Cena. However lately he has also become stale. I'm hoping the draft will do something good for him, give him some new opportunities, feuds etc.

 

[Shocky]

LOL this thread is incredibly ridiculous. Matt freaking Hardy??? What the hell has the guy done in his career instead of cater to his marks on the Matt Hardy Show online? The guy is nothing more then a career mid carder at best. I like Matt Hardy, but let's be realistic, in every single way, shape and form, he doesn't come close to Cena at all.

Cena is 31, has done more then the greats of the company at his age, he is a proven draw, the best pusher of merchandise in the company, and has put on great matches the last 2 years. Cena is better then anyone on the roster of the WWE, let alone Matt Hardy.

Please, don't hide behind the poll, there are 13 of you that voted for Matt. Make it public and defend your vote, if you can.

 

[Slim Pickns]

Where the hell did this come from? How do you compare Matt Hardy to John Cena? More importantly, how is the poll almost tied?

Matt Hardy isn't worthy of taking John Cena's dog's stool sample to his vet. Seriously, he won the US Title and the belts prestiege instantly went to nothing taking MVP's momentum with it. I'm fairly convinced no one will be able to put Matt over because most people just don't give a damn. He could beat HHH, Cena, and Taker all in a row and still not get anywhere. He has career mid card written all over him.

John Cena on the other hand, is the opposite. He lost at Mania and Backlash both times getting pinned, and still had loads of momentum and seemed credible. He is the WWE's biggest draw and people only bash him because he's successful. Cena wins, no contest.

 

[IrishCanadian25]

Which one of these wrestlers do you think is better.My choice is Matt Hardy.I will give you two simple reasons why.

*Matt knows more and better moves than Cena:I would say Cena only knows 18 or 19 while Matt knows at least 25 or 30.Matt also uses more moves on a regular basis than Cena and those moves look better and are more believable than Cena's.I mean Cena's finisher is a fireman's carry.It's elevated,but still.

*Matt cares more about the buissness.I am not saying John doesn't care,but Matt has wrestled since he was a small kid.He promoted OMEGA and busts his ass to put on a good match night in and night out.He works extremely hard to do his best.

I am trying my hardest not to flame you right now. This is the worst post ever. Spam is better than this.

Wrestling is not now, nor has it EVER been about the # of moves you can perform. It is about drawing fans and drawing money. Cena does that nightly. Matt Hardy has never done that. And I like Hardy! But he's not a draw.

Do me a favor. List the 18 or 19 moves Cena knows, and THEN list the 25-30 that Matt knows, since you obviously keep a log. THEN tell me what it is about the 7-12 move difference that makes Matt Hardy so much better than John Cena. I'll wait.

Hardy's finisher is a leg drop that people regularly kick out of. It also takes forever to set up. Austin's finisher was a lazy half snap mare. The Rock used a running elbow drop. Priot to the ankle lock, Kurt Angle used a glorified twisting hip toss and named it "The Angle Slam." Hogan used a running leg drop, Warrior a big splash. Get a history lesson - there was wrestling more than 5 years ago.

If you think Matt cares MORE about the business than Cena, you need to up your dosage. Cena works harder than ANYONE else in the business right now on overseas tours, meeting with troops, being the one of the list for sick kids at the Make A Wish Foundation, etc. Matt Hardy writes in a fucking blog. If Matt cared so much about the business, he would have kept his mouth shut about the issues with he, Edge, and Lita. But he was selfish - opting to use the internet to destroy the careers of two people who'd wronged him personally. Cena doesn't pull that shit - because HE cares about the reputations of the other guys in the locker room! BECAUSE IF THEY ARE SUCCESSFUL AND THEY DRAW MONEY, THEN HE IS SUCCESSFUL AND DRAWS MONEY!!!

I am seething at this right now, I am leaving this thread to avoid getting too angry.

 

[Uncle Phatso]

Allright and you wonder why people don't like you you. Lets look at some of the facts right here.

Matt hardy: Tag champ a couple times, And a us champ. Big fucking woopie. The only thing people really remember him for was the hardy boys. That hell and back long fucking gone bro. He had a sort of succesfull tag team with jeff and gangreal in the brood or whatever the fuck it was called. See how long its been I cant member the name or how to spell gangreals name. And I loved the dude. From that point on, He's been a fucking leach on wwe. I love the dude, But serously lets get real unless they repackage the dude he's going no ware and no ware fast. He allmost fucks up his carrier by publicly bashing edge and lita. Allmost ending his medicore cash cow he calls a job. And over what a ulgy bitch leaving him? I'm not gay but matt could do better 10 fold. And after that what did he really do? See I can't really remember what the fuck he did after that up intill he was handed the tagg gold with jeff. Riding his fucking coatails. Really his biggest claim to fame, 1 The hardy boys, 2 getting punted by randy orton. Thats about it.

Now lets take a look at John cena.

He comes in a starts to rap, Cool shit havent really seen that before. Starts a fucking fude with undertaker as a rookie. A fucking rookie taking on the undetaker. And do I get to mention that he got to slap steph's ass? She has a butter face, But a nice ass and a wonderfull pair of tits. Lets keep on moving here before I go look up some steph pictures and go at it. Really he's just what wwe needs at the moment. He's allways been a constant draw. He's fucking done things that no one else does he fucking fu'ed the big show. Not new big show, Big fat i'm gonna eat you with a fucking side of mashed potatoes big show. If i remember right he rap battled him one time and john came back with oh i'm sorry I couldent understand you your chokin on your neck fat. But anyways back to the draw part of it He's kinda stale at times and I am kinda glad to see him possibly go to smackdown in few hours because he's done everything he can on raw. He's beaten edge,hhh, 2 men in umaga and kali that others couldent. Fucking jbl and the list goes on. But really cena > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Than hardy both of them any damn day of the fucking week.

 

[travis_touchdown]

Matt knows more and better moves than Cena:I would say Cena only knows 18 or 19 while Matt knows at least 25 or 30.

The “[insert random wrestler] has [insert random single digit number] moves” argument is weak, and does not efficiently aid an argument against a wrestler.

Professional wrestling is NOT real. It’s sports entertainment. The amount of moves a wrestler has knowledge of will not affect the outcome.

Taking this into account, why would thirty maneuvers be more useful than nineteen during a scripted match? And no, “believability” is not a reason.

Matt cares more about the buissness.

No

I don’t understand why you would bother justifying that statement. You cannot rationally argue that a man who receives a small fan reaction works harder than a man who consistently receives a much larger one. It’s illogical and screams “biased statement.”

 

[twisterwrw929]

I don’t understand why you would bother justifying that statement. You cannot rationally argue that a man who receives a small fan reaction works harder than a man who consistently receives a much larger one. It’s illogical and screams “biased statement.”

The fan base of a wrestler has nothing to do with how hard they are working, that is a ridiculous comment. I do agree with everything else you had to say about the situation though.

I'm not saying Matt is a bad wrestler, but he is very boring, and that makes it hard to care about anything he is doing, whether its a match or an entire angle. I'm not personally a Cena fan, but John Cena is obviously way better, way more charismatic, a much bigger draw, and way more important to WWE and wrestling all together.

 

[twisterwrw929]

Edit:

Cena has the ability to draw fan interest and maintain it. How does that not take effort?

I'm not saying that Cena isn't a hard worker, or that he doesn't put forth the effort to be the best. You first said that because Cena has more fans, he must work harder, and because Matt Hardy wasn't as popular he doesn't work as hard. While I do think that John Cena is one of the hardest workers in the business if not the hardest worker, I'm just saying that because he has more fans doesn't necessarily mean he's a harder worker.

 

[Skillz]

Who are the 18 people who voted for Matt Hardy? Please speak up because I would love to hear your reasoning. It must be the same guy with 18 different accounts or something, because I just cannot believe so many people would think Hardy is better than Cena. The fact that this question is even being asked is a complete joke.

Cena is the best pro wrestler this industry has seen since Austin and Rock. He is a great draw, a great champion, a great worker, a great storyteller, very charismatic, has great mic skills, and is more over than anyone in the business. What else do you need in a wrestler? He is a million times better than Hardy could ever dream to be.

 

[Crimson Bonez]

im pretty sure the 18 ppl who voted for matt are the typical "i hate cena" ppl, which doesnt justify how matt is better, to me for some1 to even compare the two is rediculous basing it off some1's move set and making up ridiculous facts, its ben said by ppl who work for the business they say themselves that cena is/is 1 of the hardest working stars in the business. And even if matt is just a mid-carder, there are mid-carders that are known for doing alot of things, besides the hardys the only thing i member with matt is the whole lita/edge thing. look at kennedy, mid carder beat what 6, 7, 8 former world champs in a yr or 2 being a rookie mid-cardeer thats 1 for starters, bobby lashey was only in buis for a couple years, in the battle of buillionaire match made vince shave head, had a suscessful fued with umaga being the 2nd man to pin him, broke down the steel cage wall by jumping on it, winning the 1st extreme elimination chamber, etc., shelton benjamin has ben a mid-carder a long time hes known for his athletism, doing x division type moves, his MITB matchs which are always good, even being wwe's most under-rated wreslter for what 3 yrs, the list goes on, so even though hes amid-carder matt hardy isnt really a big name in wwe compared to somebody like cena he aint nothing thats just my opinion.

 

[Matt Phoenix]

Dude, seriously WTF?! I am going to comment on you then give an opinion at the end

*Matt knows more and better moves than Cena:I would say Cena only knows 18 or 19 while Matt knows at least 25 or 30.Matt also uses more moves on a regular basis than Cena and those moves look better and are more believable than Cena's.I mean Cena's finisher is a fireman's carry.It's elevated,but still.

Ok, well I know at least 60+ from my days of watching wrestling, not to mention playing SvsR. So therefore I am at least twice as good as Matt Hardy, maybe even three times better. Hell by that logic every poster on WZ is better than Matt Hardy.
I shall write my latest discovery another way for you because it is funny.
Every Poster on WZ > Matt Hardy but Me > 3 Matt Hardy's

*Matt cares more about the buissness.I am not saying John doesn't care,but Matt has wrestled since he was a small kid.He promoted OMEGA and busts his ass to put on a good match night in and night out.He works extremely hard to do his best.

IC25 covered this by bringing up the Edge, Lita Matt saga and did a much better job than I will do so I will leave you to read his comments.

But anyway, there is simply no way to compare the two. Cena, as already pointed has headlined WM on several occasions, Matt is US champ. I could continue with accomplishments until the cows come home but i dont want to, but you get the drift.

On a personal level I would take Raw with John Cena and only John Cena than have to watch matt hardy on SD for 24 minutes.
Cena is the better performer, better entertainer, way better looking, more decorated, more muscley and has been the companies go-to-guy for many years now. Seriously if matt hardy was fired today I personally wouldnt even notice.

In Summary John Cena > matt hardy

 

[travis_touchdown]

I'm not saying that Cena isn't a hard worker, or that he doesn't put forth the effort to be the best. You first said that because Cena has more fans, he must work harder, and because Matt Hardy wasn't as popular he doesn't work as hard. While I do think that John Cena is one of the hardest workers in the business if not the hardest worker, I'm just saying that because he has more fans doesn't necessarily mean he's a harder worker.

I think there might be a misunderstanding.

that a man who receives a small fan reaction works harder than a man who consistently receives a much larger one

I’m not making any distinctions when I use the term “fan.” If you believed that to be the case then I apologize for the lack of clarity.

However, I’m referring to his ability to generate fan interest and maintain it.

 

[wrestlingfanart]

You want to know why John Cena is over. Look how many people responded to this thread. Cena brings out a reaction from people. Good or bad, and thats why he deserves his spot. I don't care if the guy paid his dues as much as a Ric Flair or Steve Austin. He is over and that is all that matters. All that being said. I'm not a fan of John Cena the "good guy". I was a huge fan of John Cena in OVW when he played the cocky heel. The man is a natural heel. I wish the WWE brass would realize the money (in ratings and PPV buys) that a heel Cena would bring. But they will keep him a good guy because 8 year old boys buy his t-shirts and merchandise.

 

[Dalkonian]

You want to know why John Cena is over. Look how many people responded to this thread. Cena brings out a reaction from people. Good or bad, and thats why he deserves his spot. I don't care if the guy paid his dues as much as a Ric Flair or Steve Austin. He is over and that is all that matters. All that being said. I'm not a fan of John Cena the "good guy". I was a huge fan of John Cena in OVW when he played the cocky heel. The man is a natural heel. I wish the WWE brass would realize the money (in ratings and PPV buys) that a heel Cena would bring. But they will keep him a good guy because 8 year old boys buy his t-shirts and merchandise.

I agree. I actually enjoyed the heel Cena when he first debuted. After they turned him face, he lost the edginess that made him likable in the first place to me, and he became boring and stale. If they could've turned him face without making him lose his brashy side, then maybe I'd like him a bit more, but they changed his character so much after he went face that it wasn't the same Cena anymore. I personally think a heel turn is exactly what Cena needs, but of course WWE creative won't run with it.

 

[TimAH]

how about that. Another great promo from cena on monday. How can you go wrong with such a classic line like take off your diaper? I think Cena is getting worse and worse as the time goes by. JBL is poopy? come on shouldnt his character at least act older than 10?

 

[slickman123]

okay the cena character officially sucks 100% now did anyone see his promo on raw this week? he went on and on blabbing on he was like the ultimate warrior on crack i didnt understand a word of his promo he was using random lines which didn't even make sense he was getting hyped up over his huge match of the century against JBL yh like we never seen that before, give me a break. well done wwe for making this guy look like a fool his promos are boring and bizarre come on turn him heel hes to bloody stale i dont care how much merchandise he sells.