The *Official* John Cena Thread
- Thread starter Slyfox696
- Start date
killcenanow
European Champion since July 2002
Alright, I've seen enough. As tempted as I am to just leave a blank box and let my name and sig say it all, or just throw together a slew of obscenities in his direction. I figure this thread is highly lacking the opposing viewpoint. One in which the anti-Cena side explain themselves well enough to not have some other guy rip out a quote and counter-point it to death.
It is a given he makes a lot of money for the company.
It is given he must know some wrestling or else wouldn't have been hired.
It is a given he actually cares a lot about the company.
It is a given ("I can't say I never took them”
that he took steroids.
It is a given his rapping skills were pathetic, full of cliché’s, old jokes, and effortless rhymes.
It is a given his white rapper gimmick was at least 3 years past the social prime for such a thing, and that’s for when it first came out.
It is a given Cena was never a marine (only hung out with them for a day.) Not a given: that movie was terrible and unfortunately his acting skills won’t likely allow him to see his way out the way the rock did.
It is a given: Most children will pick out the guy who the WWE sells to them as the guy they'll like. A whole generation of Hulk fans could attest to that (yes indeed not all of you. Some of you went for Dibiase, I, myself, went for Hart in the Anti America story)
It is a given the women fans are generally more concerned with his physical appearance (such is the society that I must say what should be an understood thing "some of you ladies like him for other reasons" blah blah blah)
It is a Given how long he had the belt was not his call.
It is a Given that management limits his move set for him for whatever reason.
It is a given what he says is scripted.
That finally out of the way, here's why I hate the fucking prick and I can only guess the fellow haters of Cena will pick and chose which things they agree with me on. I hate his look. This is his fault. His body screams out the window "Hey you know how that whole steroid problems a big deal, well I get to keep doing it ne ner ne ner neeee neerr" I hate his limited by others move set and his full one. His executions of the expanded and reduced versions are mediocre at best. He does screw up and a lot. You want video evidence? I give you his entire career. If he's in a match more than 10 minutes the ********er dun fucked up at least once. I bring to you that YOU don't pay close attention. I have a keen eye, I mean, I spotted technical wrestling errors in the Taker Michaels WM 25 match that most seemed to feel either; weren't mistakes or marked out so bad they ignored it or didn't notice. I hate him on the mic. When he rapped, it was 4 years too late to use material 20 years too old. His marine persona, I get your promoting a movie but god damn it you’re not a fucking marine. To me it’s a huge disrespect to the nation’s MOST skilled armed forces to be parodied by WWE's "Nebraska's national guard" of a wrestler. His current gimmick’s speech is choppy, monotone, and flavorless. Yeah, he isn’t a good wrestler either, folks aside from screwing up and indeed being carried (Edge Orton HBK and even Umaga carried his ass.) HBK was pissed as hell about their WM match quoted to say "fucking guy wouldn't sell the leg, I was working on it for almost half an hour" that’s one of the WWE's own complaining about his abilities. Watch the match again. Look at the real life frustration Shawn starts showing about half way into the match. I've seen his other moves hell the defenders only list like 20ish when trying to show off how "good" he is. I've seen him use a couple dozen others but he isn’t smooth, ok, smooth is everything in the ring. He struggles, I can’t count how many times on Raw he'd start trying to do a submission move and get lost on how to pull it off and not for lack of co-operation, the other wrestler isn’t just feeding him their arm they're waiving it at him. So here’s how it is either, you’re a) blinded by lust? or b) Vince McMahon has achieved the goal of making you the viewer expect less and accept the new standards as good or c) It is a given Your standards are way too low. Seeing how some of you DARE attempt to group him in with the likes of Benoit, Hart, Michaels, and Angle it suggests you have seen quality wrestlers yet can’t distinguish them from Cena. The Brooklyn Brawler should take offense to being compared to Cena. To compare Cena to the Actual greats in either technical wrestling: Hart et al, Brawling: Foley, Austin, Taker, Flying: Jeff Hardy, RVD, Rey Mysterio, or mic skills, Rock, Flair, Hogan is more than a disrespect to those wrestlers it is an insult to any wrestling fan who actually pays attention to talent and goes to shows to see them and buy their shirts hoping that even a dollar goes to that guy to let him know Hey I'm a fan of yours, YOU have earned my respect and I am paying to see you do what you are among the best at. You Cena supporters who insist he is almost as good as them or as good or even better than them you people insult the fans who know what the hell it is they’re watching and can actually tell when a quality guy is out there and when a guy who never should have made it past the minor leagues and only did because they knew his looks and ability to memorize speeches would sell shirts to an exceeding amount of casual wrestling fans who are either too young to recall what talent is or too old and adapted to the new standards, is out there. In fear that I would go on endlessly, I'll start wrapping it up here, I really thought the IWC was smarter than this. Luckily at least it’s a 50/50 shot where as at a wrestling event it’s against me 30/70. I'm sure at least one of you will dissect part of this thing and dispute it. On issues that are actually arguable like HBK/Undertaker vs Hbk/Angle who's wrestlemania match was better both sides can have a good argument but this one, this topic, I lose faith in humanity a little more anytime anyone sticks up for Cena. It’s ignorant plain and simple. At that I will fight ignorance with some of my own as I won’t humor the discussion anymore nor will I likely respond to anything directed at me on the matter. Go ahead shred my post with one of your own, but this is my only effort at trying to get some sane thinking rolling. Perhaps Ron White was right after all, "you can't fix stupid."
It is a given he makes a lot of money for the company.
It is given he must know some wrestling or else wouldn't have been hired.
It is a given he actually cares a lot about the company.
It is a given ("I can't say I never took them”
that he took steroids. It is a given his rapping skills were pathetic, full of cliché’s, old jokes, and effortless rhymes.
It is a given his white rapper gimmick was at least 3 years past the social prime for such a thing, and that’s for when it first came out.
It is a given Cena was never a marine (only hung out with them for a day.) Not a given: that movie was terrible and unfortunately his acting skills won’t likely allow him to see his way out the way the rock did.
It is a given: Most children will pick out the guy who the WWE sells to them as the guy they'll like. A whole generation of Hulk fans could attest to that (yes indeed not all of you. Some of you went for Dibiase, I, myself, went for Hart in the Anti America story)
It is a given the women fans are generally more concerned with his physical appearance (such is the society that I must say what should be an understood thing "some of you ladies like him for other reasons" blah blah blah)
It is a Given how long he had the belt was not his call.
It is a Given that management limits his move set for him for whatever reason.
It is a given what he says is scripted.
That finally out of the way, here's why I hate the fucking prick and I can only guess the fellow haters of Cena will pick and chose which things they agree with me on. I hate his look. This is his fault. His body screams out the window "Hey you know how that whole steroid problems a big deal, well I get to keep doing it ne ner ne ner neeee neerr" I hate his limited by others move set and his full one. His executions of the expanded and reduced versions are mediocre at best. He does screw up and a lot. You want video evidence? I give you his entire career. If he's in a match more than 10 minutes the ********er dun fucked up at least once. I bring to you that YOU don't pay close attention. I have a keen eye, I mean, I spotted technical wrestling errors in the Taker Michaels WM 25 match that most seemed to feel either; weren't mistakes or marked out so bad they ignored it or didn't notice. I hate him on the mic. When he rapped, it was 4 years too late to use material 20 years too old. His marine persona, I get your promoting a movie but god damn it you’re not a fucking marine. To me it’s a huge disrespect to the nation’s MOST skilled armed forces to be parodied by WWE's "Nebraska's national guard" of a wrestler. His current gimmick’s speech is choppy, monotone, and flavorless. Yeah, he isn’t a good wrestler either, folks aside from screwing up and indeed being carried (Edge Orton HBK and even Umaga carried his ass.) HBK was pissed as hell about their WM match quoted to say "fucking guy wouldn't sell the leg, I was working on it for almost half an hour" that’s one of the WWE's own complaining about his abilities. Watch the match again. Look at the real life frustration Shawn starts showing about half way into the match. I've seen his other moves hell the defenders only list like 20ish when trying to show off how "good" he is. I've seen him use a couple dozen others but he isn’t smooth, ok, smooth is everything in the ring. He struggles, I can’t count how many times on Raw he'd start trying to do a submission move and get lost on how to pull it off and not for lack of co-operation, the other wrestler isn’t just feeding him their arm they're waiving it at him. So here’s how it is either, you’re a) blinded by lust? or b) Vince McMahon has achieved the goal of making you the viewer expect less and accept the new standards as good or c) It is a given Your standards are way too low. Seeing how some of you DARE attempt to group him in with the likes of Benoit, Hart, Michaels, and Angle it suggests you have seen quality wrestlers yet can’t distinguish them from Cena. The Brooklyn Brawler should take offense to being compared to Cena. To compare Cena to the Actual greats in either technical wrestling: Hart et al, Brawling: Foley, Austin, Taker, Flying: Jeff Hardy, RVD, Rey Mysterio, or mic skills, Rock, Flair, Hogan is more than a disrespect to those wrestlers it is an insult to any wrestling fan who actually pays attention to talent and goes to shows to see them and buy their shirts hoping that even a dollar goes to that guy to let him know Hey I'm a fan of yours, YOU have earned my respect and I am paying to see you do what you are among the best at. You Cena supporters who insist he is almost as good as them or as good or even better than them you people insult the fans who know what the hell it is they’re watching and can actually tell when a quality guy is out there and when a guy who never should have made it past the minor leagues and only did because they knew his looks and ability to memorize speeches would sell shirts to an exceeding amount of casual wrestling fans who are either too young to recall what talent is or too old and adapted to the new standards, is out there. In fear that I would go on endlessly, I'll start wrapping it up here, I really thought the IWC was smarter than this. Luckily at least it’s a 50/50 shot where as at a wrestling event it’s against me 30/70. I'm sure at least one of you will dissect part of this thing and dispute it. On issues that are actually arguable like HBK/Undertaker vs Hbk/Angle who's wrestlemania match was better both sides can have a good argument but this one, this topic, I lose faith in humanity a little more anytime anyone sticks up for Cena. It’s ignorant plain and simple. At that I will fight ignorance with some of my own as I won’t humor the discussion anymore nor will I likely respond to anything directed at me on the matter. Go ahead shred my post with one of your own, but this is my only effort at trying to get some sane thinking rolling. Perhaps Ron White was right after all, "you can't fix stupid."
You hate someone and call them a prick when you've never met them?
Give me evidence he still takes them. He probably did in his teens, as he was a body builder. However, there is no evidence that he does still take them. I bet you wish you looked like him.
I think you are implying that Cena's moveset is as bad as your grammar. I honestly have no idea what you're trying to get at here.
Yet give no video evidence? He has had plenty of quality matches. He got a good match out of the Great Khali for fucks sake. Care to tell what these fuck ups are.
Oh, so you're better than me then? Thanks for that.
I think he's by far the best babyface on the mic.
He isn't a good technical wrestler. He is a superb professional wrestler.
One match, that is all you can think of? Yeah, he didn't sell that well int that one match, headlining WrestleMania where nerves will kick in the most. One mistake in his career. He hasn't fucked up since.
Cena is smooth, smooth is everything yet Cena struggles? What the hell is this?
Examples? Thought not.
Yep, ooh how I love his pecks.
Hahaha. New standards are bad are they? Recent match ups are much higher quality than the old matches.
We're all sorry for not being as high and mighty as you.
I wouldn't dare group Cena with Benoit. Cena is leagues ahead of him. He is up there with Hart, Michaels and Angle without a doubt. Unless you are meaning technical wrestler, then duh. Cena isn't a technical wrestler.
Yeah, being compared to someone better than you. I'd be pissed too!
Cena isn't a technicla wrestler.
Below Austin, above Foley level with Undertaker.
He's not a high flyer.
Well The Rock, Flair and Hogan are three of the best ever, Cena is the best now. It is personal opinion which is better.
That is the longest sentence in the world, well done. I fell asleep by the end of it, but are you implying people who like Cena aren't real wrestling fans? Because YOU don't like his style? Is that like saying people who like a certain sports team because they play an attacking style means they are not a real fan if you prefer defensive tactics?
Oh thank fuck, my eyes are hurting.
Nope, just as clever as you.
Duh, that is what you are meant to do on a forum. Would you prefer me to read it and have a conversation with my dog about why your post is stupid?
People murder, steal and cheat but that is acceptable, supporting Cena "OMG HUMANITY IS A DISGRACE". I'd love it if you were Prime Minister.
Because you realise you have no comeback and you points are stupid? Come on, debating is what you are meant to do on here.
just be thankful it was a poster as shit as me. If it were slyfox, SavageTaker or Rusty you would have had to go into hiding o cover your embarrassment.
SavageTaker
Everybody Has A Price!
This is going to be fun.
That’s not a given. That is an opinion of yours. Not everyone feels the same way and I know some people who aren’t even wrestling fans who thought the movie was good.
You want a prick? Look no further because a prick is what Shawn Michaels was in the 90’s. John Cena is not a prick. Do you even know the definition of prick? I think your answer would be no.
Except he doesn’t do steroids.
Oh, that must suck for you then.
Good god you have some horrible grammar. Do you know what a punctuation mark is?
That’s not a given. That is an opinion of yours. Not everyone feels the same way and I know some people who aren’t even wrestling fans who thought the movie was good.
You want a prick? Look no further because a prick is what Shawn Michaels was in the 90’s. John Cena is not a prick. Do you even know the definition of prick? I think your answer would be no.
Except he doesn’t do steroids.
Show me a bunch of videos of him messing up a lot. Then I might believe you in your statement of him messing up a lot. Wait there’s a problem there isn’t a lot of videos of him messing up. Meaning your complete statement is wrong and I guarantee you, you will not find a video of him messing up a lot.
This is completely false.
Are we talking about the same wrestler? I think you’re confused.
So, how is this relevant at all?
Too bad you hate one of the best on the mic the WWE currently has.
You are laughable. He wasn’t carried in any of those matches. I really think you are confused. I like Umaga but to say he carried John Cena is completely false.
I doubt HBK saying anything like that. Unless you get some evidence then there’s no reason to believe your claims.
Maybe he was doing it on purpose. It makes the match look better when it looks like he is frustrated because he can’t keep John Cena down.
Are you serious? He does this on purpose to emphasize the fact that it’s not so easy to put The Big Show on an STF.
Not really.
You’re wrong.
You just seem to not be able to get anything right.
Those who dare attempt to group him with the wrestlers you mentioned are the “Cena Haters”. Anyways, Cena is at a higher league than all of those wrestlers.
Why would he?
I am not insulting myself. I know what the hell it is that I’m watching. I can also tell a quality guy is out there such as John Cena.
At least I’m glad I’m not losing faith in humanity. Also, I am not ignorant. You seem to be the ignorant one here.
Oh, that must suck for you then.
Good god you have some horrible grammar. Do you know what a punctuation mark is?
How come people want to compare a wrestler with a brawler's moveset like Cena to technical wrestlers like Hart and Benoit. It's like comparing a Volkswagen Beetle to a fucking Bentley, for christ's sake!
Cena is not technical. hell the fact that someone actually compared him to high flyer is beyond belief. Fact of the matter is, Cena is controversial because if people aren't praising his ability to get good matches out of his fellow superstarts (again, HBK vs. Cena on RAW, Swagger vs. Cena), they're critizicing his move sets or his work on the stick (his jugular CAN be seen when he gets passionate).
I just los faith in the parents of Killcenanow for procreating and bringing forth this spawn. =(. man Ron White was right, you can't fix stupid....because stupid is forever!
Cena is not technical. hell the fact that someone actually compared him to high flyer is beyond belief. Fact of the matter is, Cena is controversial because if people aren't praising his ability to get good matches out of his fellow superstarts (again, HBK vs. Cena on RAW, Swagger vs. Cena), they're critizicing his move sets or his work on the stick (his jugular CAN be seen when he gets passionate).
I just los faith in the parents of Killcenanow for procreating and bringing forth this spawn. =(. man Ron White was right, you can't fix stupid....because stupid is forever!
To be honest, it is simply impossible to have a real discussion about John Cena because like 90% of all Cena haters are simply not able to base their accusations on facts.
I´ve read several posts in this thread that have only one simple message
"If you like Cena you aren´t a real wrestling fan and you can fuck yourself"
I understand that it is much easier to simply state rather than discuss and back your statements up but hell , nobody said that it is wrong to dislike Cena, you can hate him all day beacuse nobody wants to change someones opinion here, if it happens ok that´s fine but that isn´t the point of this thread, the title of this thread is
"Why John Cena is one of the best wrestlers and entertainers there is today"
And not
"Why all of humanity has to like cena"
A forum is there to discuss and give your opinion not to offend or to convert someone into liking Cena or whatever. Geez
If you dislike Cena ok but somebody shouldn´t run around and tell the people that their opinions are useless and meaningless just because they disagree.
I´ve read several posts in this thread that have only one simple message
"If you like Cena you aren´t a real wrestling fan and you can fuck yourself"
I understand that it is much easier to simply state rather than discuss and back your statements up but hell , nobody said that it is wrong to dislike Cena, you can hate him all day beacuse nobody wants to change someones opinion here, if it happens ok that´s fine but that isn´t the point of this thread, the title of this thread is
"Why John Cena is one of the best wrestlers and entertainers there is today"
And not
"Why all of humanity has to like cena"
A forum is there to discuss and give your opinion not to offend or to convert someone into liking Cena or whatever. Geez
If you dislike Cena ok but somebody shouldn´t run around and tell the people that their opinions are useless and meaningless just because they disagree.
ratedrko13
Dark Match Winner
see i dont need to show proof, we all know it. I totally agree and for anyone who does want proof well its been under your damn nose for years. Cena sucks and is sloppy.
Thing i hate most is people say he's entertaining yet he cant bring people in to theater seats or buy his damn rap albums. Hell i went to the store a couple weeks ago and the only wrestling shirts they had were cena. cena gets crammed down peoples throats and thats why i think he sucks. He has a 80 percent winning percentage if not more, and no its not because he's the best. They just believe that if he keeps winning sooner or later he will win over with "All" the fans. Which is not true at all.
Little Jerry Lawler
Sigmund Freud On Ritalin And Roids
First, I want you to find or buy a dictionary (preferrably the latter) and look up the word "paragraph". Know what it means and apply it to your posts.
Edge, Orton, and Umaga have not carried Cena. Edge's best matches have been against Cena. Orton has trouble having a good match against anybody these days and Umaga had some of his best matches against Cena. Nobody can sell merchandise like him and that's why Vince likes him so much because he can make money.
His rap gimmick ended four years ago so I don't know why people not buying his rap albums has a part in this now. Cena is or will be the best in his generation just like Austin and Hogan were in theirs and that is no sign of disrespect. I want video evidence that he "fucks up" after 10 minutes and if you can't, your words aren't worth the computer you typed it on.
Remember, P-A-R-A-G-R-A-P-H.
SavageTaker
Everybody Has A Price!
For a minute I thought this was your post. If you don't mind please use the quote tags so people won't get confused and think that you copied and paste everything someone else wrote.
So you're going to not show any prove of your argument because you think everyone knows it, when in fact not everyone does.
I still want some prove. When I see his matches he is not sloppy and when something sloppy happens in the match it's not his fault most of the times. What every "Cena Hater" is doing is like Uncle Sam would say "clutching at straws." You say he is sloppy when it comes to him wrestling in a ring yet you don't show any prove of it so what you are trying to basically doing is trying to find reasons why he sucks but you don't back it up.
How is him not being the biggest box office draw or having the highest amount of rap albums sold revelant? We are talking about his professional wrestling career here. Not his acting or rap career. If I wanted to talk about his acting or rap career I would have gone and made a thread in the appropriate forums. But I didn't because I'm not talking about either of those careers.
Which just proves how much people want to buy his merchandise. They only get wrestling shirts with Cena because that's what sells. Also, don't try bringing in the "Only the kids buy those shirts" thing because there's plenty of adults both female and male that buy his shirts and other merchandise.
He gets "crammed down peoples throats" according to you because a lot of people want to see him and they pay their hard earned money. It would be a completely different story if no one paid to see him and he was still getting according to you "crammed down peoples throats.
This is the WWE where the babyfaces are favored over the heels. If you want the heels to be the ones favored and have the higher percentage of winning their matches then you are watching the wrong program. If you want this then go and watch some old WCW videos or tapes and you'll probably like the heels being the dominant ones.
Care to explain why it isn't true? It has worked many times in the past so why wouldn't it work now?
This argument ends now. Your user name implis you are an Orton fan. He is the wrestler shoved down our throats the most. Orton has been in every main event on Raw since the week before the Royal Rumble. For months the show was centred around him whilst Cena was on Smackdown with Edge and Show. He is getting title match after title match and cuts a promo every week, usually for about 10+ minutes.
Edge has won or lost a title match at every PPV since Survivor Series.
Jeff Hardy was in every title match on Smackdown for three or four months even though he lost most.
HHH has been in the title scene for nine years.
Now let's look at Cena since his return at Survivor Series. He won the title in his hometown against Chris Jericho. He then defended it against Chris Jericho on a PPV remembered for Hardy's win. His Rumble feud was with JBL, yet the real feud was JBL vs HBK, Cena was an afterthought. At NWO he was removed from the EC match after three minutes.
At WrestleMania he won the "B" Main Event in a match where the feud was Edge vs Big Show. At Backlash he defended in a match with Edge which he lost. He has then been in a mid card feud with Big Show and a secondary one with The Miz. How is he shoved down our throats? Edge and Orton are the two who ar emost shoved in our faces and no one ever complains. Cena is being underused at the moment. Your argument is the stupidest one around at the moment, worse than the five moves of doom one.
Black Snow
Getting Noticed By Management
Be fair. While I totally agree with you on principle it does go both ways. I'm not specifically talking about this thread but I see just as many Cena fans act in a similar fashion to how you just described a lot of Cena haters.
That's what annoys me the most. There are so many fans out there who don't understand the middle ground or how to have a civil discussion. I see people talking about how "true" wrestling fans can't possibly like Cena and how he's the worst wrestler in history. Then on the other side of the aisle I see people saying that Cena is the greatest technician of all time and how he captivates all of the "true" fans.
I don't see why people can't realize that the true (as is in most cases) somewhere in the middle. 2009 is pretty much like 2005. Cena gets pretty much a 50/50 reaction no matter where he is. He's polarizing and neither side is any more right than the other.
As long as someone can have an intelligent conversation I don't care if they agree with me or completely oppose all of my points of view.
SavageTaker
Everybody Has A Price!
None of the “Cena Defenders” have stated that John Cena is the greatest technician when it comes to pro-wrestling. It’s the “Cena Haters” that have been bringing up great technical wrestlers such as Bret Hart, Kurt Angle, and Chris Benoit to try and compare to John Cena. They’ve also tried comparing Cena to high flyers like Jeff Hardy. In reality that is absurd because no one is trying to compare John Cena to great technical wrestlers or high flyers other then the "Cena Haters". The one thing those wrestlers have over Cena is that they are good at that style and happen to be better technical wrestlers or high flyers but other than being better at that style they don’t beat John Cena in any other aspect of pro-wrestling like mic skills, drawing power, e.t.c.
The year 2009 is not pretty much like 2005 for John Cena. In 2005 nearly all people in an arena were cheering for the babyface John Cena. When things started to really change and the crowd reaction was 50/50 was in 2006 at Wrestlemania 22. At Wrestlemania’s main event people decided to act “cool” by booing the intended baby face who was John Cena and cheer for Triple H.
I don’t mind people disagreeing with me either because I know and understand not everyone will want to agree with me. But what bothers me is that people will say things such as “John Cena is sloppy in the ring” or “John Cena has been sloppy in the ring his entire career” yet they can’t back-up their claims with video evidence or any type of evidence for that matter. They like to state things yet when they are confronted they have nothing to say to prove they are right, so instead they go and state some thing else yet the problem remains that they don’t find any evidence to back-up their arguments/claims. It would be a completely different story if they could show me some prove that they are right, but sense they can't the same "story" will remain.
nthomas504
Pre-Show Stalwart
I like John Cena to be honest. But I really dislike his gimmick, I loved his rapper gimmick, it was original, and just good entertainment. But his gimmick has turned into a nonsense soldier who just wins every match he's in except the ones that really matter anymore. Cena needs a gimmick makeover really quick. He needs to tell a few jokes more often, he needs to have a purpose besides winning titles (Randy's is to build the best legacy of any superstar, Triple H's is to prove that he is the best ever, Edge's is to win at all cost) what exactly is Cena's point, HUSTLE, LOYALTY, RESPECT. He needs something to strive for.
I own a set of balls
Occasional Pre-Show
Well I'm no Cena fan so I say he sucks, for teh obvious reasons. His wigger gimmick is really annoying, he only uses 4-6 moves, and he's just straight up annoying. But I will say he has pretty good mic skills and is a huge hit with the kiddies!
That put a grin on my face.
Your "for teh obvious reasons" to me is "for the most over-used and lamest reasons".
His wigger gimmick is LONG gone. The last time he even resorted to it by a little was his feud with K-Fed during late 2006 and maybe early 2007 (correct me if I'm wrong, I'm pretty sure it was in 2006, not so sure about 2007), which was 2-3 years ago. You're bagging on something that is far over, and Cena will never use that gimmick again, because according to him, "the times are changing".
4-6 moves? This is the most common and most ridiculous fact that the Cena-hating bandwagon uses. A "WWE superstar" doesn't need good technical abilities to be successful or called a good superstar. Why? Because WWE hardly even call their employees that perform in-ring wrestlers. They're simply entertainers or just actors. You're saying an actor needs to learn good wrestling abilities simply to act and entertain the crowd? Don't get me wrong, wrestling moves in wrestling promotions are still important, but now a days, it isn't as important as being dexterous on the microphone.
And for the "he's just straight up annoying". Opinions differ on this topic. I personally don't find him very entertaining, because his mic work just simply isn't good enough to entertain me. He comes out every week trying to promote his skills on the microphone (I'll admit it he's the best they got right now), but I can see where you're coming from about him being annoying (meaning that he comes out doing the same type of things every week). But, I have heard other wise, with people simply adored and fascinated about his skills on the microphone. Therefore, opinions differ on this topic.
The sad part is that Cena has more than just 4-6 moves in repitoire. Outside his usual pattern of moves he does in every match, and pretty much every main eventer has a pattern, he has used various moves in a lot of matches. Basically, John Cena is a better wrestler than what he gets credited for.
What gets me is that people are still using the same weakass anti-Cena arguments, though. None of them are factual. He is not a "wigger". He can wrestle. He has fans who aren't just people with vaginas or have a bedtime of 9:00 pm. People just want somebody to moan, groan, whine, and bitch about because The Rock and Steve Austin left and they can't accept that fact so they want to hate on Cena for being the new top guy.
Ok, I gotta get in on this. So far I have been reading a 28 page war. Wow. This may seem long, but hear me out.
When I voted, I voted that I hated the character but respected the man. John Cena has my respect.
I was on the hate wagon for years. Then I realized it was just the way he was booked to do things that made me hate him. But some things have scarred his image for life, and might have been a combination of his own ideas between himself and the writing staff.
When John Cena first took the WWE championship, he/writing staff did something that pissed me right off. Cena came out on Smackdown with a new championship belt. One that had a new design...You know the one, its sold at all the shows. Its shinny! The middle spins! Word life! This was a desicration of the title I respected. Gone was the proud title that Bret Hart, HBK, The Undertaker, and all the greats before had held. Now it was a glammed up shinny spinning piece of BLING. IT REMINDED ME OF THE CHEAPEST LAS VEGAS HOOKER YOU CAN POSSIBLY FIND. Tacky. Fake. Tacky/Fake = Cena for me at that point. What a terrible move. But I know what creative was trying to do. They were trying to recreate a rebellious Stone Cold Steve Austin moment (like Austin did with the flaming skull title), and it failed. But no other champion changed the appearance of the title (minus Edge, but that wasn't a change, just a centrepiece replacement). Not even the great HHH changed it when he had it. And it still hasn't changed. Boo. BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO. Sadly, children get their parents to buy that belt, because ITS SHINY! IT SPINS! Does it glow in the dark too? Give it some flashing lights...urgh.
I didn't like Cena's rap. But whatever, he is catering to an audience and there is no be-all-end-all for musical taste. Cena has talent, that is a fact. But many people mistake his music as some cheap Eminem rippoff and add some blind hate. He has talent. But then he changed his theme song to his current one. Over the years I have surveyed other wrestling people, who think he may have one of the most annoying entrance musics in history. Don't get me wrong, there are terrible wrestler theme music's out there, but his is the most dominant, only because he has been in the main event picture for so long.
As a sidenote, I have to admit: I was definitely screaming "Thank You Edge" at One Night Stand, finally having RVD win the title. Because there, Cena was beaten (cheated, but beaten), by the voices of the haters. Then he won it back (from Edge, after). The boos returned.
When The Marine came out, it was the timing of the movie that hurt it the most. You had the highest anti-american sentiment at that point. America was feeling bad about itself too. Then this movie came out. That hate, that low pride, made The Marine look like nothing more than a propoganda movie. That hate was transferred on to him, indirectly. The Cena character came out, saluted the WWE crowds...bad move X2. John Cena never served a day in the Marine Corp, correct? Fake X2.
Last character mistake: Winning the Royal Rumble and coming back from injury. As soon as Cena's music hit, I thought "Oh sh*t, he's going to win....NOOOOO!!!" And he did. Then he used the title shot before Wrestlemania and missed Wrestlemania because he was injured again. He even lost the match. What a waste. Someone else should have been given the ball. That was a creative mistake. But not Cena's. He tried to get back from injury because he loved the industry. I don't think he ever wanted to win it, he was just handed the ball as soon as WWE creative saw him. Bad move X3.
So, with that being said, to me this is the overall problem people have with John Cena the character: He is the face. He always has been. All characters in WWE have flipped back and forth over time between face and heel. He has not since he went face. To switch gives a variety of opponents and matches. And he won't. The WWE makes too much money off what he can sell as a face. Great men in wrestling are made because of this. It is cathartic when a bad guy goes good. It is just as shocking/entertaining as when someone turns heel. There have been no turns. There has been no variety. His opponents may differ, but we will not have Face vs. Face feuds in WWE. So, we always have to go with Cena. That is being force fed. Like someone is choosing our favorite for us/the audience.
On that note, I hope Miz beats Cena, cleanly. Yes, cleanly. So it makes Cena flip out because he lost to a nobody. Make him turn heel. Make him show weakness. It is what we have been waiting for, so we can relate to him when he finally turns face again. If you can't identify with a hero, how can you like him? Vince himself said that the wrestlers are all shades of grey. There is no grey in Cena's character.
But I can't hate him, the person. He loves the industry. He loves the business. He loves the fans. He is a good person. He can perform incredible feats of strength and agility. He is a team player and a franchise man. He can entertain, he can wrestle (but must lose the hesitation in the UCan'tSeeMe to 5 knuckle shuffle move, it makes all his opponents look bad and stupid...sorry). He has talent, period.
Last note, last thought: Cena must face The Rock. He must get him into that ring, somehow. Cena must face the Rock because Cena has only fought the current-era greats minus HBK and Flair. He must defeat the previous generation to take the torch of the new one. Stone Cold, Bret Hart, Hogan, Savage, and all the other greats are gone. They are trying to make new greats, but The Rock holds the only torch, because he refuses to give it. Get it Cena. And what a match it would be.
Thanks for reading!
When I voted, I voted that I hated the character but respected the man. John Cena has my respect.
I was on the hate wagon for years. Then I realized it was just the way he was booked to do things that made me hate him. But some things have scarred his image for life, and might have been a combination of his own ideas between himself and the writing staff.
When John Cena first took the WWE championship, he/writing staff did something that pissed me right off. Cena came out on Smackdown with a new championship belt. One that had a new design...You know the one, its sold at all the shows. Its shinny! The middle spins! Word life! This was a desicration of the title I respected. Gone was the proud title that Bret Hart, HBK, The Undertaker, and all the greats before had held. Now it was a glammed up shinny spinning piece of BLING. IT REMINDED ME OF THE CHEAPEST LAS VEGAS HOOKER YOU CAN POSSIBLY FIND. Tacky. Fake. Tacky/Fake = Cena for me at that point. What a terrible move. But I know what creative was trying to do. They were trying to recreate a rebellious Stone Cold Steve Austin moment (like Austin did with the flaming skull title), and it failed. But no other champion changed the appearance of the title (minus Edge, but that wasn't a change, just a centrepiece replacement). Not even the great HHH changed it when he had it. And it still hasn't changed. Boo. BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO. Sadly, children get their parents to buy that belt, because ITS SHINY! IT SPINS! Does it glow in the dark too? Give it some flashing lights...urgh.
I didn't like Cena's rap. But whatever, he is catering to an audience and there is no be-all-end-all for musical taste. Cena has talent, that is a fact. But many people mistake his music as some cheap Eminem rippoff and add some blind hate. He has talent. But then he changed his theme song to his current one. Over the years I have surveyed other wrestling people, who think he may have one of the most annoying entrance musics in history. Don't get me wrong, there are terrible wrestler theme music's out there, but his is the most dominant, only because he has been in the main event picture for so long.
As a sidenote, I have to admit: I was definitely screaming "Thank You Edge" at One Night Stand, finally having RVD win the title. Because there, Cena was beaten (cheated, but beaten), by the voices of the haters. Then he won it back (from Edge, after). The boos returned.
When The Marine came out, it was the timing of the movie that hurt it the most. You had the highest anti-american sentiment at that point. America was feeling bad about itself too. Then this movie came out. That hate, that low pride, made The Marine look like nothing more than a propoganda movie. That hate was transferred on to him, indirectly. The Cena character came out, saluted the WWE crowds...bad move X2. John Cena never served a day in the Marine Corp, correct? Fake X2.
Last character mistake: Winning the Royal Rumble and coming back from injury. As soon as Cena's music hit, I thought "Oh sh*t, he's going to win....NOOOOO!!!" And he did. Then he used the title shot before Wrestlemania and missed Wrestlemania because he was injured again. He even lost the match. What a waste. Someone else should have been given the ball. That was a creative mistake. But not Cena's. He tried to get back from injury because he loved the industry. I don't think he ever wanted to win it, he was just handed the ball as soon as WWE creative saw him. Bad move X3.
So, with that being said, to me this is the overall problem people have with John Cena the character: He is the face. He always has been. All characters in WWE have flipped back and forth over time between face and heel. He has not since he went face. To switch gives a variety of opponents and matches. And he won't. The WWE makes too much money off what he can sell as a face. Great men in wrestling are made because of this. It is cathartic when a bad guy goes good. It is just as shocking/entertaining as when someone turns heel. There have been no turns. There has been no variety. His opponents may differ, but we will not have Face vs. Face feuds in WWE. So, we always have to go with Cena. That is being force fed. Like someone is choosing our favorite for us/the audience.
On that note, I hope Miz beats Cena, cleanly. Yes, cleanly. So it makes Cena flip out because he lost to a nobody. Make him turn heel. Make him show weakness. It is what we have been waiting for, so we can relate to him when he finally turns face again. If you can't identify with a hero, how can you like him? Vince himself said that the wrestlers are all shades of grey. There is no grey in Cena's character.
But I can't hate him, the person. He loves the industry. He loves the business. He loves the fans. He is a good person. He can perform incredible feats of strength and agility. He is a team player and a franchise man. He can entertain, he can wrestle (but must lose the hesitation in the UCan'tSeeMe to 5 knuckle shuffle move, it makes all his opponents look bad and stupid...sorry). He has talent, period.
Last note, last thought: Cena must face The Rock. He must get him into that ring, somehow. Cena must face the Rock because Cena has only fought the current-era greats minus HBK and Flair. He must defeat the previous generation to take the torch of the new one. Stone Cold, Bret Hart, Hogan, Savage, and all the other greats are gone. They are trying to make new greats, but The Rock holds the only torch, because he refuses to give it. Get it Cena. And what a match it would be.
Thanks for reading!
Biggest Triple H Fan Ever
The biggest Triple H fan ever
I red some of the posts. First, I understand I'm in the minority when it comes to cena fans. But I've been reading the same things over and over. "His moveset is limited","his character is stupid","he wins too much". First, cena does have a much better move set than most people claim. If you don't beleive me, watch WM 22 or 23. Second, his character is a very good role model for kids. Third, the only reason he wins so much is because he's booked to. So what I'm saying is, Cena is very good.
I'm a new user of the forums, I was just browsing through some of the topics and this one kinda caught my eye. Anyway just thought I'd give my opinion. To me Cena is definately not one of the best wrestlers or entertainers there is today. However I do believe that when you look at the fact that the WWE is now targeting kids and becoming a more family friendly show then Cena is a perfect fit. Lets face it, Cena is luved by children and Vince is using Cena as basically a money making machine with all the merch that Cena is selling to them. So whilst I'm not a Cena fan and I do believe that SavageTaker does make a good point to a certain extent. Personally I liked Cena before when he was a heel and really had some attitude. After he turned face, I really got sick of him but yes I know his only doing his job too.
Oh. I make long posts aaaaall the time. Really. They're filled with really dry, sarcastic humor. You should read one when it's about this post. I dunno, I laugh.
As he should. He's a grand ole company man.
Well, yes. Booking does all that. Tis why they're creative. That's what they do.
Well, first of all. I think you're giving Cena more creative credit than he deserves. Creative did all that.
Secondly, he was a gangster. A thug. He made that belt different because his gimmick wanted a belt with some bling. That, and kids like to get their parents to buy shiny things. I've always said, cover a poo in sparkles and you'll get more than one person to stop and see if it stinks.
And, honestly, it wasn't a desecration to your precious title. It was a change that was in line with a gimmick. Something HBK, Hart, Taker, all the greats would completely understand. And it's not like that change completely wiped the lineage from that belt. I mean really.
They were going with a gimmick. It's what Creative is known to do. You know, give their Pro Wrestlers gimmicks and stick with what works. I don't see a problem with it at all. And the more kids that buy it, the more money they have to pay the mid and low carders no one really cares about. (Read: Benjamin)
Well. First of all. You didn't like his rap. Can't knock you for that.
Secondly, I love your "I've been polling wrestling fans" line. Like you're some Harvard educated statistician. Lulz. And it gives you the right to completely come up with a random fan base that doesn't like his theme song.
Oh, you were one of the smarky crowd members. Well, thanks for ruining the moment. Edge was supposed to getting booed. He's a heel, he wants you to boo. You complete gave him the shaft by chanting that. Give yourself a pat on the back for ruining Edge's job.
1) People didn't like the government. They never once said "We don't like the troops." The Republicans might have been slinging it around like shit at everyone who didn't like the Patriot Act, but i guarantee you dislike about the Iraq War did not give Cena any heat. Preposterous.
2) If I hear one more "Cena's not a Marine!?!?!?!" I'm gonna crack. If you don't like Cena's Marine gimmick, call bullshit on Orton's "Pyschopathic" gimmick, Kane's "Hell dude" thing, and Taker's UNDEAD gimmick. Fucking hypocrisy.
If he missed Mania, he couldn't have lost the match. You're making no sense.
Unless you mean the fact that he lost Mania. That's cool, it's called a swerve.
They built Orton at the expense of Cena. Not a bad move. Good move. Very good move. They were building the heel they wanted to carry Raw for the next few years. Twould be silly to make him lose to Cena. Especially if he was injured and would have to be out.
I'm sure it's not Cena's choice. It's creative's.
Secondly, Hardy has always been Face. Don't remember people complaining he only knows 5 moves, or people being smarky assholes and booing Hardy just because.
Also, Edge has been a Heel for how long now??!!?!? I don't see one person dogging Edge because his character won't flip. It's because he's a Heel, he's a credible one at that. Same with Cena, except substitute Face for Heel.
Someone is choosing who is on your screen. It's called the paying public. They love, love, love Cena. So McMahon is giving them what they want. And that's more face Cena.
You may not like him as Face, but that's immaterial. The vast majority do. And your ticket fee is nothing compared to their millions. Sorry.
Also, I go once again to Edge. Edge has been Heel for how long? What you say about Cena applies to Edge. You're not hear dogging Edge.
Oh. You mean like when he snapped and starting going crazy over Orton attacking his father? You can't mean that. It'd ruin your point.
Yay. Someone understands what the point of Pro-Wrestling is. Entertainment. Score.
The Rock isn't coming back. He's got a rather lucrative movie career. It isn't happening. Never ever. And Cena doesn't need it to. Cena is plenty over without it.
killcenanow
European Champion since July 2002
Okay folks I'm going to man up and I'm going to do it on the very thread I over reacted on.
Firstly, John Cena is a respectable person outside of the ring. I saw a bit on him putting on a TGIF servers work uniform and talking to some sick kids. and he's always doing that kind of thing so I will no longer continue to bash him in as a person on the whole and will keep it to just him as a wrestler/tv persona.
I apologize for being so overdramatic as to say I lost faith in humanity that fans would like him..thats like saying the worlds coming to an end because people think Steve Carrell is funny. So what if he is a terrible comedian and so what if John Cena is a god awful wrestler it doesn't mean people cant like them. So pardon my over dramatic post.
The point that I should have stuck is that I am bothered that some think that he should be considered in such high regard. A point that I didn't even make last time was that perhaps critics should calm down with the whole considering him one of the greatest is that he's only been around for 7 years. I could hope most people could at least understand the real greats don't get the respect they get with out being in the business for much longer than that unless something tragic happens.
Seeing how it is a main focal point of my original post I may as well be up front about it. I think he is a sloppy wrestler. I said you could look at his whole career to see it. I stand by that point. He isn't necessarily so sloppy as to completely botch entire matches but rather can create more than his fair share of mid match awkward moments and create in ring confusion. Usually it doesn't even get to that level. Mostly it sticks with a very choppy match devoid of smoothness on his part. As far as lacking video evidence If i were on trail here I would start recording every raw and meticulously go through all the matches he has on my dvd's and write down all of it for you. I'm not on trail and as much as I enjoy these discussions, I can't say I have much of a life, but its not close enough to me having no life where I would go to that much effort to try and sway your opinions when no such change of heart would take place regardless of my efforts.
You are going to stick to your opinions. If I showed you one video chances are you'd give him an excuse or bitch that I only have "1" video and that game would have to continue. I hope I'm not the only one who doesn't have that kind of time on there hands.
I hate technology!
so maybe a name change is in order, as much as it stands out, it no longer is an accurate portrayal of my feeling towards the guy.
perhaps Tonya Harding Cena lol
Firstly, John Cena is a respectable person outside of the ring. I saw a bit on him putting on a TGIF servers work uniform and talking to some sick kids. and he's always doing that kind of thing so I will no longer continue to bash him in as a person on the whole and will keep it to just him as a wrestler/tv persona.
I apologize for being so overdramatic as to say I lost faith in humanity that fans would like him..thats like saying the worlds coming to an end because people think Steve Carrell is funny. So what if he is a terrible comedian and so what if John Cena is a god awful wrestler it doesn't mean people cant like them. So pardon my over dramatic post.
The point that I should have stuck is that I am bothered that some think that he should be considered in such high regard. A point that I didn't even make last time was that perhaps critics should calm down with the whole considering him one of the greatest is that he's only been around for 7 years. I could hope most people could at least understand the real greats don't get the respect they get with out being in the business for much longer than that unless something tragic happens.
Seeing how it is a main focal point of my original post I may as well be up front about it. I think he is a sloppy wrestler. I said you could look at his whole career to see it. I stand by that point. He isn't necessarily so sloppy as to completely botch entire matches but rather can create more than his fair share of mid match awkward moments and create in ring confusion. Usually it doesn't even get to that level. Mostly it sticks with a very choppy match devoid of smoothness on his part. As far as lacking video evidence If i were on trail here I would start recording every raw and meticulously go through all the matches he has on my dvd's and write down all of it for you. I'm not on trail and as much as I enjoy these discussions, I can't say I have much of a life, but its not close enough to me having no life where I would go to that much effort to try and sway your opinions when no such change of heart would take place regardless of my efforts.
You are going to stick to your opinions. If I showed you one video chances are you'd give him an excuse or bitch that I only have "1" video and that game would have to continue. I hope I'm not the only one who doesn't have that kind of time on there hands.
I hate technology!
so maybe a name change is in order, as much as it stands out, it no longer is an accurate portrayal of my feeling towards the guy.
perhaps Tonya Harding Cena lol
Like many others there's no way I would agree Cena is the best wrestler going around. However he still is young and does have the opportunity to get his in ring work sorted out and good luck to him for that. I don't think being the best wrestler is what makes Cena popular at all. The thing is with him that its really kids that love him because he has this sorta superman kinda style which obviously kids are going to love. On top of that his making Vince alot of money with all this merchandise his selling to kids and obviously telling more kids tickets etc. Looking at the WWE roster, I'd say there are so many other better in ring performers but in ring talent alone I guess isn't enough for children and it's children who the WWE is targeting so therefore WWE is going to give their target market what they want and make Cena the main guy. So having said that I think Cena does a good job to entertain kids and to that extent it makes him a great entertainer. Even though I hate this PG era and hate the WWE being more family friendly, I can still admit that Cena is the perfect fit for the WWE at the moment. I don't like Cena but I understand what his there to do and good on him for that.
While that's your opinion, allow me to disagree with you. Cena has improved his work in the ring tremendously over the past 2 years. He has become one of the better workers in the ring. He knows how to put on a great match. He has all the tools necessary to do so. Now is he a great technical wrestler? No, but he doesn't have to be. Austin was the same way.
You may be right, but I don't think so. I know that many posters on here have come to enjoy Cena's matches more so then a lot of other wrestlers matches. While all Kids may like Cena, not all Cena fans are kids. Many adults have come to like him for his match quality. Which as of late has been constantly the best.
Cena bring in a lot of money. He sells things, and it's not just kids that are buying them. He sells ppv tickets, buys. He sells a lot more than just merchandise. Can you name one guy on the roster in the last 6 months that has been a harder worker than Cena? Or one that has put on constantly as good matches?
So having said that I think Cena does a good job to entertain kids and to that extent it makes him a great entertainer. Even though I hate this PG era and hate the WWE being more family friendly, I can still admit that Cena is the perfect fit for the WWE at the moment. I don't like Cena but I understand what his there to do and good on him for that.[/QUOTE]
When thinking of someone that reaches the children I think of one man, Rey Mysterio. Rey has always been geared towards the kids, look at his entrance going down and picking kids and going to say a word with them. I think Cena does a good job to entertain all of the fans. I understand that you don't like him, but everyone is going to have people who don't like them. I just don't think Cena is marketed the way that you make him out to be. I have my opinion you have yours I respect yours.
His ring work sorted out? What ring work would that be? The ring work that he uses to put millions of people into the seats? Or the ring work he uses to draw thousands of PPV buys? Or the ring work that makes people cheer the roof off of the arena? Hmmm. I think his ring work is just fine.
If you're going to use the kid argument, make it correctly. It's "Little kids who idolize Cena and overweight chicks who just wanna have sex with Cena."
And to attack the point, more than just children or women like Cena. Grown men do. I, for one, am grown. I like him. And I know of a lot of other people who do as well. They're called the paying public that go to WWE shows and mega-pop when Cena so much as peaks past the curtain.
And that's what makes him a great pro-wrestler. Pro-wrestlers are supposed to get asses in the seats and merch sold. That's what Cena does, so he's a great pro-wrestler. Better than 96% of the roster.
Like whom?
My point is, to have to good ring skills as a pro-wrestler you simply have to:
A) Get the crowd to care.
--Which Cena has done.
B) Not injure your opponent.
---Cena has never injured his opponent. Kudos.
That's about it. I'd like to know who in the WWE does more to get the crowd in their seats whose name isn't Taker, Triple H, or HBK.
Superstar=Entertainer=Pro-Wrestler
If he's a good entertainer, it follows that he's got good ring skills as a Pro-Wrestler. Just sayin'
Well, he's not going to hook every fan. But to say he doesn't have good ring skills is ludicrous.
No one really pays attention to over-reacting Cena haters. It's fine.
You bashed him as a person? That's silly. Didn't know you had a personal relationship with Cena to the point where you could bash him.
But you're apologizing for it, so you obviously know the failure in logic you committed.
Cena a god-awful wrestler? Since when? Since the last time he sold all those tickets, merchandise, and PPVs? Or the last time he got the crowd to think that the relatively unknown Jack Swagger would beat him? Or the last time he got people to care about a Big Show match? Or the last time he got people to believe fucking Miz could beat him?
Unless you're operating under the faulty assumption only technical wrestlers are any good, Cena should be at the top of your list of great Pro-Wrestlers.
So, we can't point out his epic amounts of awesome, but you can say he sucks all you want? That's not fair. It's a double standard. Hypocrisy, if you will.
Refusing to offer evidence with the "I have no life" excuse. Never heard that one before. So now you can go around complaining about how Cena is a choppy, no talent wrestler without offering a single match as proof. Might work with others, but I'm not going with it.
Every wrestler is allowed a few horrible matches. Hell, Taker is allowed hundreds. Ever see his first years? Bleh.
To say that Cena must make every match perfect is silly. But to say that he botches every match is just as wrong. He's not Benjamin.
Well, the "killcenanow" name is really just a target on your back that I have to aim for now. Because your statements have no point or logic to them. And that name? Really?
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