RIP Kanyon

[X]

Even if he was mentally sick for his entire life, he still made choices. Mental illness doesn't force you to abuse drugs. I can be a contributing factor sure, but in the end those choices were made by him and him alone. Unfortunate that mental illness exists, but I'm not going to mourn over a man who chose to take his life in that direction. My bestfriend contemplated suicide years ago because of his depression. He said that he didn;t go through with it because he realized that he can make his own life what he wants it to be and that you can fight depression. He didn't blame anyone or anything for choices he had made. Man makes his own choices regardless of outside interference.

Then your best friend obviously wasn't suffering from as severe of a case of mental illness as this man was Armbar. I'm not saying depression or mental illness is impossible to overcome, just that those who haven't seen it and struggled with it really do not understand what leads a person to these thoughts and actions.

Why shouldn't we have sympathy for a talented young man who unfortunately passed away today, most likely from taking his own life? That's a damn shame, of course he should be mourned like anyone else should be.

 

[Slyfox696]

Yeah, because drug addicts really have a choice that their parents freaking beat them as kids and therefore have attachment disorders making them feel utterly alone and unable to trust anyone.

The schizophrenic guy really has a choice that he thinks aliens are trying to steal his thoughts.

The guy who has been to war who freaking saw all of his friends get killed by a suicide bomber and as a result developed a pretty brutal case of Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder really has a choice about that happening. Furthermore, I guess he has a choice not to drink himself into a stupor, although if he didn't, he would constantly be reliving the moment in his mind.

Yeah, Sly. Screw those guys.

Your post is far more insulting and patronizing to those people than my ever could be, saying they are weak-minded and weak-willed people, who lack choices and who are controlled by events they can't help.

That's just bullshit. None of those people HAVE to rely on an addiction to drugs, they do so because it's easy, it's convenient, and it's a way to hide from their problems. Do I feel bad for the problems those people have? Sure, absolutely. I feel bad for my cousin who literally had to watch his own mother die in his living room due to breast cancer at the age of 12.

But I don't feel bad when those people turn to unmoderated drug use as the answer. My cousin? He doesn't do drugs...you not think watching your mother die in your living room can't fuck you up? Everyone in life goes through issues, some obviously more devastating than others.

But no one HAS to become addicted to drugs, and to say these people had no choice is as insulting as it is false.

 

[X]

Yeah, I'm firmly with Ricky on this one. I don't think you truly understand the nature of mental illness and drug addicition Sly.

 

[Slyfox696]

Anyone who thinks he "brought this upon himself" or any other person who chooses suicide and/or self-medication with drugs is pretty ignorant. Hopefully none of my future patients encounter your insecurities and make them feel judged for feeling like crap.

Wait, MY insecurities? For believing people have free choice of mind to decide whether or not to do something that is known to cause irrevocable damage to your body and mind?

That's just fucking stupid Ricky, even for you.

Why shouldn't we have sympathy for a talented young man who unfortunately passed away today, most likely from taking his own life? That's a damn shame, of course he should be mourned like anyone else should be.

Why should we have sympathy, when he chose the drugs, and he chose to take his life?

He wasn't murdered, no one forced the Xanax (or whatever it was) down his throat...he made conscious decisions the whole to shape his life's course.

 

[Via Armbar]

Yeah, because drug addicts really have a choice that their parents freaking beat them as kids and therefore have attachment disorders making them feel utterly alone and unable to trust anyone.

The schizophrenic guy really has a choice that he thinks aliens are trying to steal his thoughts.

The guy who has been to war who freaking saw all of his friends get killed by a suicide bomber and as a result developed a pretty brutal case of Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder really has a choice about that happening. Furthermore, I guess he has a choice not to drink himself into a stupor, although if he didn't, he would constantly be reliving the moment in his mind.

Yeah, Sly. Screw those guys.

The difference is that you can control your hands from picking up a bottle and needle and shooting up. You can't control your brain and what it thinks. I'm sure you'll say ''but mental illness IS in the brain'' and obviously I would agree with that. Doing drugs isn't hardwired into your brain until you make the decision to do them in the first place. People may be predisposed to the desire of certain highs and alchoholism, but still whether or not that made that initial step into drug dependancy is choice we all have. Nobody is being controlled physically here, nobody is being forced to do these things.
My father was abusive and a heroin addict, and yet I know the difference between him and I.

 

[X]

Because why shouldn't we feel sorrow that Kanyon was miserable enough to think that suicide was his only course of action?

 

[Slyfox696]

Yeah, I'm firmly with Ricky on this one. I don't think you truly understand the nature of mental illness and drug addicition Sly.

What a crock of shit. EVERYONE has an internal locus of control, but people like you choose to ignore it, and blame your actions on outside influences, the external locus of control. Obviously there are things people cannot control, but the decision to abuse drugs is not one of them. That is a conscious decision that a person makes, and to say otherwise is just ridiculous.

 

[Slyfox696]

Because why shouldn't we feel sorrow that Kanyon was miserable enough to think that suicide was his only course of action?

Because, most likely, the cause of that mindset was drug-induced, a pattern of thinking and behavior shaped, most likely, by years of drug abuse.

Why should I feel bad when a man consciously decided to take drugs he knew would wreck his mind and body?

 

[Steamboat Ricky]

Your post is far more insulting and patronizing to those people than my ever could be, saying they are weak-minded and weak-willed people, who lack choices and who are controlled by events they can't help.

That's just bullshit. None of those people HAVE to rely on an addiction to drugs, they do so because it's easy, it's convenient, and it's a way to hide from their problems. Do I feel bad for the problems those people have? Sure, absolutely. I feel bad for my cousin who literally had to watch his own mother die in his living room due to breast cancer at the age of 12.

But I don't feel bad when those people turn to unmoderated drug use as the answer. My cousin? He doesn't do drugs...you not think watching your mother die in your living room can't fuck you up? Everyone in life goes through issues, some obviously more devastating than others.

But no one HAS to become addicted to drugs, and to say these people had no choice is as insulting as it is false.

Clearly I said that they are weak-minded people.

Some people are mentally ill (psychotic) do not have control over their minds and thus, how could they CHOOSE to do anything? Even if they did, why would they choose that? Does that make them bad people?

Mental illness is a physical ailment. It's not just mind over matter. Often, the need to alleviate particular feelings is SO important that long-term thoughts do not even come into play. All that they can think about trying to alleviate thoughts/feelings.

 

[Via Armbar]

Then your best friend obviously wasn't suffering from as severe of a case of mental illness as this man was Armbar. I'm not saying depression or mental illness is impossible to overcome, just that those who haven't seen it and struggled with it really do not understand what leads a person to these thoughts and actions.

Why shouldn't we have sympathy for a talented young man who unfortunately passed away today, most likely from taking his own life? That's a damn shame, of course he should be mourned like anyone else should be.

So he just had a weak form of depression? His depression wasn't as bad as those who couldn't make their own decisions like he did? That seems very selective of you X. I'm sure that there are many forms and severities of depression, but to say that the decision to not kill himself was based soley of of his ''weaker depression'' is absurd. He made that choice, not his depression or apparently lack thereof.

People can mourn in their own way. That's why I said it's a shame to lose a talented wrestler. I personally didn't know the man so I can't say anything about him being missed on any other level.

 

[Steamboat Ricky]

Wait, MY insecurities? For believing people have free choice of mind to decide whether or not to do something that is known to cause irrevocable damage to your body and mind?

That's just fucking stupid Ricky, even for you.


Why should we have sympathy, when he chose the drugs, and he chose to take his life?

He wasn't murdered, no one forced the Xanax (or whatever it was) down his throat...he made conscious decisions the whole to shape his life's course.

Very debatable.

 

[Via Armbar]

Clearly I said that they are weak-minded people.

Some people are mentally ill (psychotic) do not have control over their minds and thus, how could they CHOOSE to do anything? Even if they did, why would they choose that? Does that make them bad people?

Mental illness is a physical ailment. It's not just mind over matter. Often, the need to alleviate particular feelings is SO important that long-term thoughts do not even come into play. All that they can think about trying to alleviate thoughts/feelings.

A physical ailment? Yes. One that takes over all functions of the moving body and forces pills down ones throat? I'v never heard of that. I agree with how strong the feeling is, the NEED to do drugs. This still doesn't change the fact that they will need to make a decision at some point in time to physically pick up a needle and shoot up. And who said they would bad people? I only ever stated that they were at fault for bad choices they've made.

I do have sympathy for people that have to combat things they aren't in control over. I don't have sympathy for people that made bad choices regardless of anything else.

 

[It's...Baylariat!]

As a person who battled depression, I can safely say that I never once wanted to turn to drugs. I knew, even as a man who was depressed and considered ending his own life, that drug use would not help, but exacerbate the issues I had. The only solution to me getting better was to see a therapist and to get my issues out in an open forum. I never once considered drug use as an option.

And making excuses for drug use? No. Not buying it. I've been around drug addicts most of my life. It's a choice. It's a choice to crush up a pill and snort it. It's a choice to smack yourself silly because you can't get high enough. It's a choice to find a way to nearly alienate every person in your family. So X and Ricky, I understand mourning the guy's death because he was someone who entertained us, but for overdosing? No. He was plenty able to get help. The fact that he possibly thought suicide and drugs were the solution to his problems were on him. Not anyone else.

It's tragic, but that doesn't make it a logical reason to die.

 

[Via Armbar]

Very debatable.

Umm...no. Nobody picked up a bottle of pills and forced them down his throat. There are no voodoo acts going on here. His hands didn't gain a mind of their own and force pills down his throat in his sleep. There are outside forces working in the form of mental depression obviously, but this isn't case of alien body snatchers here. No matter what mental short falls he may have had that influenced his decisions, they were still HIS decisions. How is that debatable?

 

[X]

What the fuck is wrong with you people? We shouldn't feel bad that someone was not strong enough to help themselves and they succumbed to their own demons?

Seriously, get the fuck out of here with that bullshit. No one is telling you guys have to feel bad, but stop trying to make it sound like we shouldn't care, we're allowed to care if we want to. Christ.

 

[Steamboat Ricky]

Do any of you understand the concept of being delusional? When someone is delusional, he or she does not have a sound concept of reality. Thus, the use of drugs is more understandable.

Wow, these people's lives are in shambles...let's crucify them for having problems.

 

[klunderbunker]

If I remember right, WWE offered all former employees, of which Kanyon was one, free rehab. So, he had a drug addiction that he brought on himself by taking the first pill, was offered a chance to get professional help completely free of charge and didn't, and gave up on life, hurting his friends and family in the process.

And I'm supposed to feel sorry for him. Right.

 

[X]

Continuing to show you really aren't understanding what Ricky and myself are saying KB, way to go.

 

[Via Armbar]

Not saying nobody should feel bad. Just explaining why I personally don't. I said it already but aparently it needs reiterating: it sucks we lost a talented performer. I also feel for any family he may have. Obviously suicide is a shitty thing to happen. I never argued any of that. I just can't bring myself to mourn over somebody who was a prodcut of their own choices.

 

[klunderbunker]

Continuing to show you really aren't understanding what Ricky and myself are saying KB, way to go.

I understand completely. It's deplorable when the person isn't famous. Tell me X, if this happened to some crackhead in south Philly, would you feel the same way? Something tells me you wouldn't.

 

[Via Armbar]

Do any of you understand the concept of being delusional? When someone is delusional, he or she does not have a sound concept of reality. Thus, the use of drugs is more understandable.

Wow, these people's lives are in shambles...let's crucify them for having problems.

I'm not sure who that was directed towards because I don't see anywhere somebody saying they should be crucified. I'm pretty sure Sly, KB and myself were explaining why we wouldn't be upset over these happenings. I completely understand why drugs don't seem so bad to people battling depression. They seem like an outlet, a way out. I get that. I never argued the appeal of drugs in those situations. I simply said that actually doing the drugs is a choice.

 

[X]

I understand completely. It's deplorable when the person isn't famous. Tell me X, if this happened to some crackhead in south Philly, would you feel the same way? Something tells me you wouldn't.

Did that crackhead in Philly entertain me on my television set as a child? No, so obviously the one who did is going to evoke a stronger reaction from me KB.

What you're not getting though, is the fact that these "choices" they make to drown themselves in these drugs and kill themselves are not always made with a healthy mind. Do you not understand the concept of a delusional mind? Why shouldn't we feel sorry for him? You don't feel sorry for him, that's fine, go to another thread then.

 

[Steamboat Ricky]

KB, do you realize how dehumanizing that sounds? No one is telling you that you SHOULD feel bad for Kanyon. If I ever communicated that, it was not intended. But to say that because he did drugs and/or was mentally ill that he is not WORTHY of anyone's sympathy is cruel.

This whole conversation reminds me of Lord of the Rings:

Pity? It was pity that stayed Bilbo's hand. Many that live deserve death. Some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them, Frodo? Do not be too eager to deal out death in judgment. Even the very wise cannot see all ends. My heart tells me that Gollum has some part to play yet, for good or ill before this is over. The pity of Bilbo may rule the fate of many.

You guys have no idea what it is like to be Chris Kanyon, so give the guy a freaking break.

 

[klunderbunker]

Did that crackhead in Philly entertain me on my television set as a child? No, so obviously the one who did is going to evoke a stronger reaction from me KB.

What you're not getting though, is the fact that these "choices" they make to drown themselves in these drugs and kill themselves are not always made with a healthy mind. Do you not understand the concept of a delusional mind? Why shouldn't we feel sorry for him? You don't feel sorry for him, that's fine, go to another thread then.

Then lock him in a fucking sanitarium. If he has a mental illness, I don't want him on the streets. If he's got something wrong with him, lock him up.

 

[klunderbunker]

KB, do you realize how dehumanizing that sounds? No one is telling you that you SHOULD feel bad for Kanyon. If I ever communicated that, it was not intended. But to say that because he did drugs and/or was mentally ill that he is not WORTHY of anyone's sympathy is cruel.

This whole conversation reminds me of Lord of the Rings:



You guys have no idea what it is like to be Chris Kanyon, so give the guy a freaking break.

Screw dehuminazation. No one, I repeat NO ONE, made him take a single pill. Sure it's sad that he died, but to even imply this is anyone's fault but his is a joke.