[Official] John Cena Thread

[Satan's Hockey]

I was at that SummerSlam 02 in Long Island, the Rock got booed because everyone was pissed off that he was leaving. They didn't boo him cause they thought he sucked, they booed him cause they were frustrated and disappointed that he would rather do movies than wrestle.

 

[HBK-aholic]

but he still gets a reaction from the majority of the crowd.

Most wrestlers get a reaction. The point is a lot of people argue Cena is good at working the audience. Obviously not from recent events.

then why not lose it and regain it? Orton doesnt deserve a longer run, he was made too look week throughout his title run

And you think Cena deserves the championship back?

Cena will probably work a limited schedule so he can be fully healed when WM rolls around.

Because that's what we want our champion doing
He's already won the Rumble and got a championship match booked for a few weeks time. He's not exactly lying low and fully recovering.

he is a great performer in todays WWE. His booking is pathetic, but that doesnt take away from Cena as a person, it makes his move set limited, but he still grasps and entertains the majority of the crowd.

The crowd hate him. He is a better performer than a lot of them, but it didn't warrant the championship for that long.

they are consistent on a monthly PPV basis.

why give off good matches on free tv?

But at the same time, they should give their all in every match, PPV or not.

that is ridiculous, average performers are not on top of the business for the better part of two years. The blind hate for Cena is ridiculous. The man sells, he entertains, and he does a little more than that. Yep, average performers can get a good match out of a 7 ft+ monster who is immobile ...

I said he's had a few good matches, but generally, he doesn't deserve the championship again, especially from the fact this face is getting booed. that's not working the crowd.

but it could result in a DQ, or it could be a triple threat match..

Yes with HHH, aren't we excited..?
Cena is going to be given a huge push until he gets the championship back. Orton being champion, he had no one caring that he was made to look weak, however to Cena, everything was done to make sure he wasn't made to look weak.

Yes he earned his title match, he won the rumble, therefore earning his title shot at WM..thats what happens when you win the RR. therefore he earned it

Yes because coming in at 30, not wrestling for about 4 months and just returning to booing fans warrants that win.

how he was the champ before he left. How do you want him to earn it? by going through every superstar and burying them in the process? I dont think so.

He should have got a title shot anyway, everyone gets one. But he shouldn't have won the Rumble.

Mr McMahon knows that, he isnt dumb, but Mr McMahon also knows that it is a reaction from the majority of the fans, people pay to cheer him, and people pay to boo him.. no matter which way you look at it, they are paying to watch him

Your argument has changed because now you have to admit he isn't as good at working the crowd as everyone said. If he was he'd have turned those boos into cheers.

LMAO are you being serious? People don't pay to boo Cena. If they don't like him they won't pay for him, but it won't stop them going to cheer on the other stars.

that is ridiculous, they are champs because they are on top of the biggest wrestling promotion in America. I also believe that interview was After Angle and the WWE had their falling out, so he could have been bitter, without ever showing any emotion.

He said it, there's nothing anyone can do to go against that. Maybe he just knows wrestling?

He is getting a crowd reaction from the majority of the fans. Honestly, how many times do i have to say that? He gets a reaction from the fans, people pay to cheer, or boo, but no matter which way you look at it he is getting a reaction from almost every fan in attnedance.

Most wrestlers do. But people DO NOT pay to boo him. I'm sure soon you'll say more people watched the Rumble because of Cena returning. Yet we didn't know.

 

[Slyfox696]

His 4 star matches aren't consistent. He has good matches at PPV's and a few on Raw, but other than that he's an average performer, but few people see that due to their blind love for him.

They're not consistent? Tell me dear, which PPV match of Cena's wasn't good?

Are you going to deny that Shawn Michaels always has great matches at Wrestlemania?

Yes, and Tito Santana, Tatanka, and Vince McMahon would all have to agree.

LOL even other wrestlers such as Kurt Angle have said Cena isn't one of the best wrestlers. You honestly think the championship symbolises a lot anymore? Well it doesn't symbolise who the best wrestler is.

And wrestlers like Chris Jericho, Hulk Hogan, and Bret Hart have said Cena is one of the best wrestlers. Funny how you consistently ignore that.

And, if you think Kurt Angle can hold a candle to any one of those three in terms of in-ring ability, then I don't know what to tell you.

I said he's had a few good matches, but generally, he doesn't deserve the championship again, especially from the fact this face is getting booed. that's not working the crowd.

That's not working the crowd? How do you figure?

You still don't know what working the crowd means, do you?

Your argument has changed because now you have to admit he isn't as good at working the crowd as everyone said. If he was he'd have turned those boos into cheers.

What does working the crowd have to do with cheers or boos?

LMAO are you being serious? People don't pay to boo Cena. If they don't like him they won't pay for him, but it won't stop them going to cheer on the other stars.

Well, then, if people don't pay to boo Cena, then Cena haters are MUCH less prominent than you make them out to be and Cena fans are MUCH greater in number than Cena haters. Because Cena is the number one draw, and at this point, there is no disputing that.

He said it, there's nothing anyone can do to go against that. Maybe he just knows wrestling?

Yeah, there's plenty to go against that. The words of Hulk Hogan, Bret Hart and Chris Jericho, all of whom have said Cena is a good wrestler. And all three of them have accomplished far more than what Angle could ever dream of in professional wrestling.

 

[dirtyshubb]

And wrestlers like Chris Jericho, Hulk Hogan, and Bret Hart have said Cena is one of the best wrestlers. Funny how you consistently ignore that.

And, if you think Kurt Angle can hold a candle to any one of those three in terms of in-ring ability, then I don't know what to tell you.

I think the problem with this argument is that it depends on what you consider good in-ring ability is, i mean fair enough with the Bret Hart comments, he will always be known as one of the best performers but saying Hogan or Y2J (as much as i like him) is better than Angle is quite frankly shocking, especially Hogan. Hulk will go down as the wrestler who helped change wrestling but i think most people know he only has his status today because of his charisma and not ability.

That's not working the crowd? How do you figure?

Okay i understand what you mean that getting booed or cheered isnt fully what working the crowd is but i think the point is Cena is a FACE, and before anyone says 'but they describe him as someone you either love or hate' they might try to use that to explain the boos but his character is still pushed as a face, yet he gets the complete opposite reaction from, at times, most of the fans in an arena.
One of the main aspects of working the crowd is to get a desired response which depends on being a face or heel and for the WWE's top face to get so much negative responses means no matter how well he has paced the match or tried to steer the crowds reaction a certain direction he has failed.

Now i dont mind Cena but him winning the Rumble was a complete waste of the event, i think a better option would have been to have (lesser of 2 evils) HHH win the rumble and have Cena show up and ruin his celebrations by announcing he will be using his rematch clause at NWO. Instead we have the sole reason for the Rumble now has no meaning!

 

[Slyfox696]

I think the problem with this argument is that it depends on what you consider good in-ring ability is, i mean fair enough with the Bret Hart comments, he will always be known as one of the best performers but saying Hogan or Y2J (as much as i like him) is better than Angle is quite frankly shocking, especially Hogan. Hulk will go down as the wrestler who helped change wrestling but i think most people know he only has his status today because of his charisma and not ability.

Kurt Angle is incredibly overrated, simply because he was a former Olympic wrestler and came in with a gimmick of a "technical wrestler". Thus, people seem to think he's good because he technical wrestles. Professional wrestling encompasses MANY styles, not just one.

Hulk Hogan has his status because he knew how to make fans care. He did that by being great in the ring. Wrestling style does not determine quality of wrestler, but how well one works that style, and how much he can get people to care about him. Which is why Hogan, and Cena, are both so darn good. And I think the fact that Hart, Hogan and Jericho, who all worked different styles of wrestling all praise him shows that Cena is good. It's not like he is praised by just one style of wrestling. Hart, Hogan, and Jericho encompass various styles.

Okay i understand what you mean that getting booed or cheered isnt fully what working the crowd is but i think the point is Cena is a FACE, and before anyone says 'but they describe him as someone you either love or hate' they might try to use that to explain the boos but his character is still pushed as a face, yet he gets the complete opposite reaction from, at times, most of the fans in an arena.
One of the main aspects of working the crowd is to get a desired response which depends on being a face or heel and for the WWE's top face to get so much negative responses means no matter how well he has paced the match or tried to steer the crowds reaction a certain direction he has failed.

Working the crowd is creating the illusion of what you see on the show is real, and to draw the crowd into your matches and care about your character. It's the opposite of a shoot, if that helps clarify.

Cena's negative fan reaction is not indicative of his ability in the ring, as nothing he does in the ring goes away from the babyface format. His negative reaction comes from the fact that many fans have been worked by the professional business to believe that technical based wrestlers are quality wrestlers, and any wrestler who is successful for reasons other than a technical or submission based style is solely due to factors other than skill. That's been a kayfabe position of professional wrestling for forever. Those fans who boo him do so, in my opinion, on the fact they've been worked (at least those who do not think he is good in the ring), and not because what he does in the ring entices the crowd to boo him.

Did that make sense?

Now i dont mind Cena but him winning the Rumble was a complete waste of the event, i think a better option would have been to have (lesser of 2 evils) HHH win the rumble and have Cena show up and ruin his celebrations by announcing he will be using his rematch clause at NWO. Instead we have the sole reason for the Rumble now has no meaning!

Well, I'm not sure Cena has a rematch clause as he never actually got beat for the title. Instead he had to give it up. But yeah, if he did have a rematch clause, then I would agree with you, in that they could have had this same match without having Cena win the Rumble. I hadn't thought about that.

 

[dirtyshubb]

Kurt Angle is incredibly overrated, simply because he was a former Olympic wrestler and came in with a gimmick of a "technical wrestler". Thus, people seem to think he's good because he technical wrestles. Professional wrestling encompasses MANY styles, not just one.

I agree that having a mat based/technical style doesnt mean that you are automaticaly a great wrestler, you are right we need many styles otherwise wrestling would just be boring.

I would disagree with you on Angle, he has to be in my opinion the person who has taken to pro wrestling the most naturally, going from a sceptic to joing the WWE and having the best rookie yeah imaginable. Its just a shame that he will never be spoken in the same breath as Hogan, Austin, The Rock by non wrestling viewers because i think he does deserve it.

Cena's negative fan reaction is not indicative of his ability in the ring, as nothing he does in the ring goes away from the babyface format. His negative reaction comes from the fact that many fans have been worked by the professional business to believe that technical based wrestlers are quality wrestlers, and any wrestler who is successful for reasons other than a technical or submission based style is solely due to factors other than skill. That's been a kayfabe position of professional wrestling for forever. Those fans who boo him do so, in my opinion, on the fact they've been worked (at least those who do not think he is good in the ring), and not because what he does in the ring entices the crowd to boo him.

That all made sense, dont worry

Maybe i didnt explain my meaning well enough. When i said Cena fails as a face i didnt mean because of his ability to be a face in the ring, its not entirely his fault because you do get the Cena bashers that do it just for the sake of it, but i feel because of the reactions he gets unless he pulls out a very good match (which he has at times) he is doomed when trying to work the fans because he doesnt really have a hope of changing their views.

Why is it like this? Well i think that is a combination of oversaturation of his character, bad booking with his move set, and i know a few people will dissagree but his matches can be very predictable (not all).
A big aspect that i feel hinders him is his punches because lest face it when you are a brawler your bread and butter is punches and if you dont have that convincing enough than its very hard to bring fans back to your side.

The biggest aspect would have to be him domminating the main event for so long. I know he draws but at the same time he pushes a lot of people away, merchandise sales may go up but ratings have shown that there isnt a dramatic rise or fall depending on Cena being in the main event.

I just feel that we, as well as Cena could have benifited from a break to let the haters and the people who do just hate him for the sake of it forget about him for a bit. They could have let us put Cena into the back of our minds and then brought him back with maybe an altered move set and a slightly altered character, nothing too dramatic just enough to keep his return fresh and then gone on from there. Instead he is back early and yes it was a huge shock but that shock wont last and the fans will just go back to how it was before he left.

Hope i explained a bit better this time

 

[Papa Shango]

I applaud HBK-aholic for finding such respectable source as Kurt Angle. Oh, wait, no he's not. Why? Because he buries every person he's ever worked with!! Since leaving WWE, Kurt Angle has buried the following people in interviews:
1.John Cena
2.Triple H
3.Hulk Hogan
4.Brock Lesnar
5.HBK SHAWN MICHAELS
It's really easy to quote Kurt Angle when trying to reason why a wrestler is bad. That's because Kurt Angle thinks he's the only good thing to ever happen to professional wrestling, because he is delusional... because he is crazy. And Cena's not even the one who's gotten ripped into the most by him. Angle says he was brought into the program in 2005 to make Cena look better than he actually was, and that he feels that Cena's, and Lesnar's, runs at the top should have been his. He's never said anything completely damaging about Cena. He has however, gone on to say that he has absolutely no repsect for HHH or HBK as either performers or people. I'll take Angle's opinion on other wrestlers a bit more seriously when you can find me a single time, when he publicly put over another wrestler in an interview... OTHER than Eddie Guerrero after his death. I have for more reason to respect the words of Hogan, Hart, and Y2J over the words of Angle. What reason do they have to put over Cena? Hogan and Hart? Cena's not their contemporary. For the most part, neither of these guys have any need to give thier opinions on todays current wrestlers. Jericho? Jericho has as much reason to be bitter towards Cena as Angle. Cena took Jericho's spot in WWE. But as Y2J was on his way out, he encouraged Cena, he put him over. Even Shawn Michaels has said that Cena is the future of the business, and was more than willing to do his job at WM23. Angle is a broken, bitter old man whose words MUST be taken with a grain of salt. Find me an objective source, who has no real axe to grind, who can simply put into words why Cena does not deserve the success he has gotten, and then MAYBE I'll have reason to take your argument seriously. But until then, your argument is as hollow as almost every other Anti-Cena Mark on this forum.

 

[BooCocky]

Most wrestlers get a reaction. The point is a lot of people argue Cena is good at working the audience. Obviously not from recent events.

thats ridiculous, did you see the reaction he got this past Monday? The crowd was either cheering, or yelling you suck. The crowd was not dead when Cena entered the ring, and if you think it was, that is ridiculous.

And you think Cena deserves the championship back?

duh, he never lost it in the first place, and it could be a continuation of his last storyline

Because that's what we want our champion doing
He's already won the Rumble and got a championship match booked for a few weeks time. He's not exactly lying low and fully recovering.

He will work a limited schedule until Wrestlemania, and after WM he will probably go on his full time schedule. UT will probably win at WM, and he will become champion, and he works a limited schedule to my understanding, and no one complains about him.

The crowd hate him. He is a better performer than a lot of them, but it didn't warrant the championship for that long.

Why? When you are the best you get the best.

But at the same time, they should give their all in every match, PPV or not.

Why? Then no one will order PPV's if they can see the same matches on TV. its a business move.. Again that McMahon is no dummy.

Yes with HHH, aren't we excited..?
Cena is going to be given a huge push until he gets the championship back. Orton being champion, he had no one caring that he was made to look weak, however to Cena, everything was done to make sure he wasn't made to look weak.

Explain? Cena came back won the Rumble, he entered at 30, so he spent the least time in the ring, so he didnt make everyone look weak. Orton looked weak the moment after he was granted the championship.

Yes because coming in at 30, not wrestling for about 4 months and just returning to booing fans warrants that win.

thats probably what Mr McMahon wanted, he probably knew it was going to happen that is why he did it... BTW he was out for a little over 3 months...

He should have got a title shot anyway, everyone gets one. But he shouldn't have won the Rumble.

this makes no sense, do you want him to return on a Monday night? So when he returns he buries everyone in his path to gain a title shot? He won the Royal Rumble and it was a good move, because he mainly eliminated Upper Mid Carders. and Main Eventers on their respective brands

Your argument has changed because now you have to admit he isn't as good at working the crowd as everyone said. If he was he'd have turned those boos into cheers.

and how isnt that working the crowd?

LMAO are you being serious? People don't pay to boo Cena. If they don't like him they won't pay for him, but it won't stop them going to cheer on the other stars.

this is one the most ridiculous things i have ever read... JR said he best, when they are paying their hard earned cash to watch the show, they can cheer or boo who they want..... When Hulk Hogan became a heel when he joined the NWO, people paid to boo him and see if he will lose every Monday, and every PPV.

He said it, there's nothing anyone can do to go against that. Maybe he just knows wrestling?

but yet Jericho, Hart, and Hogan said he is a good wrestler. But hey, they dont no what they are talking about

Most wrestlers do. But people DO NOT pay to boo him. I'm sure soon you'll say more people watched the Rumble because of Cena returning. Yet we didn't know.

People watched the rumble to see who is going to win the Rumble, and when Cena returned it put the icing on the cake. The difference between Cena, and Funaki is, the crowd actually buys a lot of Cena merchandise, and they pay to boo or cheer Cena. They dont pay to see Funaki get squahed in three minutes

 

[X]

You don't remember correctly, because I never said that.

I'm sorry about that then, must of been someone else.

No, not always. Artists can have varying reasons to release albums. Sometimes for musical gain, sometimes for money, sometimes just to fill a deal.

Ummm....artists don't release their own albums Slyfox. Not unless they own a record company (or subdivision), or they're releasing it independently out of their damn basement. Record companies release albums, and they do for one reason: money. The record business is as much of a BUSINESS as wrestling is Sly. And if an artist can release an album for "musical gain" then why can't a wrestler be considered great for his artistic ability as well?Because putting together a great match is an art form.

Do you not understand that the only way to objectively define what makes it good art is by what appeals to the masses, as that is the sole purpose of professional wrestling? I mean, if I go out and paint a flower on my roof and call it art and think it's the greatest thing ever, does it mean it's good art? Nope.

That, by far, is the most ignorant thing I've ever heard you say Slyfox, and could not be more wrong.

Van Gogh was not even slightly popular as an artist until after he died. Does that mean his paintings weren't good because he wasn't popular? When is art EVER popular? It hasn't been for the last 200 years, and if you think that art is about popularity, then you clearly know jack shit about what art is.

When wrestling fans begin to appreciate wrestlers because they do circus moves, that'll be the day professional wrestling will die. I can go to the circus and see a lot cooler things that watching 200 pound ugly men in tights do flips. If I want to see athleticism, I'll watch an NBA basketball guy. If I want entertainment that simulates the struggle between good and evil, with characters that I care about, and who portray that struggle through the illusion of an athletic contest, then I'll watch professional wrestling.

Then I guess wrestling is dead and buried, because every single wrestling fan from the age of 5 to 55 enjoys watching shows of athleticism by wrestlers. Except for you apparently. But the other 99.9% of wrestling fans enjoy that. Thats why they go crazy every time Jeff Hardy does the swanton. If you think fans don't enjoy shows of athleticism, than you clearly don't know much about wrestling fans.

And you just toss off wrestlers as "200 pound ugly men in tights". First off, how many wrestlers weigh 200 pounds? 5 out of 500? Just the CWs? And who's to judge their looks? Most wrestlers seem rather well featured to me.

And it's not just "flips". If you think that shit is easy, go try it yourself. NBA players could never do what guys like Shelton Benjamin can do. And you know why? Because Shelton Benjamin is a better athlete then a basketball player. He's mort athletic then Kobe Bryant, Tim Duncan, all of em. I'd like to see any NBA player jump from the mat to the top rope in one perfect little leap. I'll guarantee you they wouldn't be able to do half of the things wrestlers do.

Sorry Slyfox, but you sir are the biggest smark of 'em all. And to be criticizing us for judging wrestlers on their athletic ability, when you judge them on their selling ability, is ridiculous. When will you ever realize that Vince McMahon could get any muscled guy off the street, throw him in that ring with the same character as Cena and make him the "mega babyface", and it would be the same thing as Cena? Anyone could do that. If you have muscles and are slightly attractive, congratulations, you can be the WWE's biggest face. The fans like who Vince TELLS them to like.

Seriously Slyfox, stop. Stop talking to me and everyone else here as though we were your 8 year old child, we aren't fucking morons. Stop being so condescending.

 

[Stunner 3:16]

John Cena...worst face of all time...killing wrestling in my opinion...he has ok mic skills and can not perform in the ring...the only reason is has been so over with the fans is because that's the guy Vince picked to usher in the new ear of wrestling with a new fan base: women and children...if you think about it...those are the only people that like and cheer for him...you don't see the typically 18-35 demographic on the camera when he comes out...His conditioning helps but Vince is saying I want to put the belt on this guy to keep people watching to see when he will lose the belt, to who and how...he keeps people guessing and pissed off...When he came out on Sunday I was pissed and when HHH's feet hit the floor I picked up my stuff and left...

 

[Slyfox696]

I'm sorry about that then, must of been someone else.

No problem.

Ummm....artists don't release their own albums Slyfox. Not unless they own a record company (or subdivision), or they're releasing it independently out of their damn basement. Record companies release albums, and they do for one reason: money. The record business is as much of a BUSINESS as wrestling is Sly. And if an artist can release an album for "musical gain" then why can't a wrestler be considered great for his artistic ability as well?Because putting together a great match is an art form.

No, because artists still have free license to create any music they wish. It's not like wrestling. In wrestling, the workers are contracted and are expected to do as told. In music, record companies contract musicians, but leave the music decision up to the band. Completely different.

Van Gogh was not even slightly popular as an artist until after he died. Does that mean his paintings weren't good because he wasn't popular? When is art EVER popular? It hasn't been for the last 200 years, and if you think that art is about popularity, then you clearly know jack shit about what art is.

You don't get it, and I don't know how to make it any more clear.

Wrestling is an entertainment medium. It exists solely on the basis of entertainment value. If it's not entertaining, it's dead. You can't continue to make "wrestling art" if you don't have any money, because you can't afford it. The ART in wrestling is being able to work matches that entertain a large fanbase and create revenue. That's how you tell a wrestler is good. Wrestling is entirely predicated upon appealing to a fanbase. Painting is not, which is where you parallel fails. Wrestling appeals to people because it has to. Wrestling has to have people, paintings do not.

I don't know how to explain it any further than that.

Then I guess wrestling is dead and buried, because every single wrestling fan from the age of 5 to 55 enjoys watching shows of athleticism by wrestlers. Except for you apparently. But the other 99.9% of wrestling fans enjoy that. Thats why they go crazy every time Jeff Hardy does the swanton. If you think fans don't enjoy shows of athleticism, than you clearly don't know much about wrestling fans.

Then John Cena must be the most athletic man in wrestling, because there is no doubt he's the biggest draw. And if the only thing fans like is athleticism, then John Cena must be the most athletic man in wrestling.

By your standards.

And it's not just "flips". If you think that shit is easy, go try it yourself. NBA players could never do what guys like Shelton Benjamin can do. And you know why? Because Shelton Benjamin is a better athlete then a basketball player. He's mort athletic then Kobe Bryant, Tim Duncan, all of em. I'd like to see any NBA player jump from the mat to the top rope in one perfect little leap. I'll guarantee you they wouldn't be able to do half of the things wrestlers do.

I'd like to see Shelton Benjamin dunk a basketball. I'd like to see Charlie Haas guard Allen Iverson. I'd like to see Triple H line up at fullback and block Shawn Merriman. I'd like to see...well you get my point.

I'm not saying wrestlers are not athletic. I never said that. I'm saying that to watch professional wrestling simply for athleticism is entirely missing the boat on what makes professional wrestling good. Obviously, unless you want to tell me that John Cena is the most athletic wrestler in the world right now, fans don't watch wrestling simply because of athletic ability.

Sorry Slyfox, but you sir are the biggest smark of 'em all. And to be criticizing us for judging wrestlers on their athletic ability, when you judge them on their selling ability, is ridiculous.

No no...I don't judge them on their selling ability. VINCE MCMAHON judges them on their selling ability. And their selling ability is indicative of their wrestling ability. How do I know this? Because no one pays to watch someone who is a bad wrestler and is boring. Do you?

When will you ever realize that Vince McMahon could get any muscled guy off the street, throw him in that ring with the same character as Cena and make him the "mega babyface", and it would be the same thing as Cena?

Never, because that is completely stupid. If that's all it took, then how come every wrestling in the WWE doesn't get that treatment? How come the WWE doesn't just go hire every bodybuilder they can find and have them wrestle? Apparently all it takes is muscles and a character to be a mega draw. How come guys like Cena come around so rarely?

Seriously, you prided yourself earlier on being objective about Cena. Use some of that objectivity here. You're not making sense at all.

The fans like who Vince TELLS them to like.

Bullshit. Never. Vince McMahon puts those who draw in important positions, and those who do not in unimportant positions. Vince McMahon is a seller, the fans are the buyers. And when the buyers want a certain commodity, McMahon gives it to them. It's basic economics.

Seriously Slyfox, stop. Stop talking to me and everyone else here as though we were your 8 year old child, we aren't fucking morons. Stop being so condescending.

Quit saying ignorant things and maybe I will? I mean, I have Wes trying to prove Cena's not a draw, when every bit of evidence is to the contrary, people saying that Cena only has 5 moves when I can list about 13 off the top of my head in 10 seconds, I have people saying that Cena can't wrestle (which makes no sense considering his occupation), I have you saying that anyone can do what Cena does while ignoring the fact that if this were true than there should be a million Cenas running around the WWE.

Some people in here don't understand basic business principles and concepts, and refuse to believe them even when I slap them in the face with them. How else am I supposed to react?

 

[figure4]

No matter how much peole rant and rave about how much John Cena sucks, on the basis of accomplishments, acclaim, and star power, Cena is one of the greatest champions of all time. These people forget that John Cena is a character created by Vince McMahon. They act like he books himself and decides he's going to win most of his matches, wear what he wears and say what he says. He is a character, just like Triple H, just like HBK, just like Mrrrrrrrr. Kenneddddyyyy (Kennedy). And just because he is THE MAN (just like Trips was from 02-05, just as Austin/Rock were from 97-01, just as Bret/HBK were from 94-97), he is the subject of so much hatred. That's fine and healthy.

But to not respect Cena is ignorant and pathetic. He gives his life, body and time to entertain us, does more traveling/promoting than any other top guy in any other sport (Tiger Woods, LeBron James, Tom Brady) and makes considerably less money.

If you do not like Cena, that's fine. But to criticize the way he does his job in the ring is just plain ignorant. For most of us on here the closest we've come to grappling in a wrestling ring is playing SmackDown vs. RAW on PS2. You Cena-haters who call yourselves "fans" need to step your game up, and shut the hell up. It's been three years and Vince McMahon hasn't listened yet.

 

[Lil Wes]

I'm only going by what I strongly disagree with in this post. The other things were you just ranting.

No matter how much peole rant and rave about how much John Cena sucks, on the basis of accomplishments, acclaim, and star power, Cena is one of the greatest champions of all time.

LMFAO!

In the words of the greatness that is Booker T. Tell me you did not just say that.

Please explain to me how in the blue hell John Cena is anything compared to the likes of Hogan, Austin, Rock, Flair, Sting, Michaels, Triple H, Taker and more.

But to not respect Cena is ignorant and pathetic. He gives his life, body and time to entertain us, does more traveling/promoting than any other top guy in any other sport (Tiger Woods, LeBron James, Tom Brady) and makes considerably less money.

I've said this 1000000 times. We as fans should respect everyone from Funaki---Batista---Cena----Austin for the show they at least try to put on, but some are just better than others.

In that scenario, Austin is better than all. And lots are better than Cena. At least IMO.

You Cena-haters who call yourselves "fans" need to step your game up, and shut the hell up. It's been three years and Vince McMahon hasn't listened yet.

A) We are fans or we wouldn't be on this board.

B) Who gives a flying fuck what you Cena marks think about are opinions? I sure as hell don't. I don't like him, I think he is tremendously overrated by his fans. He is the champion in an era that is bad if not worse than 94-97 with zero competition whatsoever. He's not great like you and others make him out to be.

C) We should all know Vince isn't listening by now but why should we care? If we don't like that character they are trying to put together with Cena. Then we should show it. Which is why he is constantly jeered nowadays and even was before just not as bad.

 

[Slasher]

I like Cena, this hate towards him is just getting out of control, the guy busts his ass off to try and entertain us but all he gets a whole bunch of people who think there cool and chant "cena sucks"

Call me a "mark" or whatever I really dont care, Ill still be a cena fan.

 

[Jus2ezy]

im new to this board, and I knew I was going to see something referring to Cena and how much he sucks.. which is terrible, when Cena was out you missed him.. all u Cena haters you missed him. Cena has 5 moves of doom oooohhh and u know each one and love watching them. Why? Because Cena gives you the best mic work, and very high entertaining matches.. Vince didnt make him the Champ and so huge of a star for nothing..

I honestly think you people boo Cena for Fun.. like you really like him like your in the Crowd with a Cena shirt on, but since the people around u are boo'n him you join in..

Cena will be WWE champ @ No way out and long ass his arm holds up he will be the TOP Dawg in the WWE. so deal with it and stop B****'n!

 

[HLOTN]

I really love Cena haters. I'm not a fan of sorts, but you're all so defensive. None of you actually seem to back up your statements. It just seems as though everyone has jumped on the bandwagon which has been running for too long now. The panto of booing Cena isn't that interesting anymore. In fact, it would be more interesting for him to be cheered universally.

"A) We are fans or we wouldn't be on this board.

B) Who gives a flying fuck what you Cena marks think about are opinions? I sure as hell don't. I don't like him, I think he is tremendously overrated by his fans. He is the champion in an era that is bad if not worse than 94-97 with zero competition whatsoever. He's not great like you and others make him out to be.

C) We should all know Vince isn't listening by now but why should we care? If we don't like that character they are trying to put together with Cena. Then we should show it. Which is why he is constantly jeered nowadays and even was before just not as bad."

This is what I'm talking about. If you don't want to debate and can't handle people actually disagreeing with you about Cena, don't.

Oh, and Cena marks? I'm not a Cena "mark" at all and I'm sticking up for him. You Cena haters are not the masses, even though you think you are. Sure he gets jeered throughout the arenas, but whenever he wins the cheers outcry the boos. He's the biggest draw the company has which is why Vince is a smart man to ignore the small percentage of Cena haters (and yes, it is a small percentage). One of my old friends went to Raw twice last year, and he and his friend told me they booed Cena just for fun. For a lot of people, it's all panto. If the apparent Cena haters WERE the majority of WWE's fans, he would not be as big as he is today.

 

[HBK-aholic]

im new to this board, and I knew I was going to see something referring to Cena and how much he sucks..

Yep you were right. Want to know why? Because Cena does suck.

which is terrible, when Cena was out you missed him.. all u Cena haters you missed him. Cena has 5 moves of doom oooohhh and u know each one and love watching them.

Ya I don't think I did miss him. In fact I loved WWE more than I had in the last few years.

Of course we know the moves, We're FANS.

Why? Because Cena gives you the best mic work, and very high entertaining matches.. Vince didnt make him the Champ and so huge of a star for nothing..

Cena was champ cos he makes Vince money. That's it.

I honestly think you people boo Cena for Fun.. like you really like him like your in the Crowd with a Cena shirt on, but since the people around u are boo'n him you join in..

Wow I think I'd be depressed if I owned a Cena shirt. I boo Cena because he deserves it. Hell I went to a house show a few months ago that he wasn't even at and we still booed him. We boo him because we don't like him, we don't agree with the oush, and think he'll never be as good as people seem to try and tell us.

Cena will be WWE champ @ No way out and long ass his arm holds up he will be the TOP Dawg in the WWE. so deal with it and stop B****'n!

Cena will most likely be champ. Not because he deserves it, but because he didn't deserve the Rumble win and he won that. Because he didn't deserve the championship for so long but he got that too.

I'll say what I like, because I think you're very ignorant and I don't like it. I think you should deal with not coming on here and trying to talk about what it seems you know nothing about. Actually, it's a good job you're here, we can teach you right from wrong

 

[Slyfox696]

Yep you were right. Want to know why? Because Cena does suck.

And yet, you are one of the minority who thinks that. But, clearly, even though most people disagree with you, including those who are in the actual wrestling business and are famous for wrestling, are wrong and you are right.

Do you realize how conceited your position makes you?

Cena was champ cos he makes Vince money. That's it.

And why did he make Vince money? Because he was good. It's not hard to understand, yet you seem to still be struggling with it.

Cena will most likely be champ. Not because he deserves it, but because he didn't deserve the Rumble win and he won that. Because he didn't deserve the championship for so long but he got that too.

Why wouldn't the biggest draw in the company deserve the top belt? Do you intentionally try to make yourself look ignorant to the ways of the wrestling business? Hell, forget the wrestling business, do you understand anything about business in the free market economy in general? At all?

I'll say what I like, because I think you're very ignorant and I don't like it. I think you should deal with not coming on here and trying to talk about what it seems you know nothing about.

He/she made twice as much sense as I've ever seen you make in a topic about Cena.

Actually, it's a good job you're here, we can teach you right from wrong

Why would he want to listen to you, when your understanding of professional wrestling is so obviously limited?

You better stick with me HBK-aholic. After I'm done with you, then maybe you'll learn a little bit about what wrestling is really about. Thank goodness that I'm here to teach YOU right from wrong.

 

[Lil Wes]

I really love Cena haters.

I really hate Cena marks.

I'm not a fan of sorts, but you're all so defensive.

Lolz, Cena marks are the most defensive fans I've ever seen on any board.

None of you actually seem to back up your statements.

Read back 40-50 pages ago, and I've seen plenty of statements backed up just recently.

Most of it's a matter of opinions that you and other idiots think they can change by providing us with the same "well he draws" arguements. Why should I or anyone else give a fuck if Cena draws? I shouldn't that's for WWE not me. I want to be entertained, Cena doesn't do that for me with his mediocre mic skills and mid-card wrestling ability.

It just seems as though everyone has jumped on the bandwagon which has been running for too long now.

The longer Cena is anywhere near that title, the longer that bandwagon will live.

The panto of booing Cena isn't that interesting anymore. In fact, it would be more interesting for him to be cheered universally.

It's interesting because the superhero babyface is getting heel heat.

Did you see his return to RAW and the Rumble? Massive heat for Cena.

"A) We are fans or we wouldn't be on this board.

B) Who gives a flying fuck what you Cena marks think about are opinions? I sure as hell don't. I don't like him, I think he is tremendously overrated by his fans. He is the champion in an era that is bad if not worse than 94-97 with zero competition whatsoever. He's not great like you and others make him out to be.

C) We should all know Vince isn't listening by now but why should we care? If we don't like that character they are trying to put together with Cena. Then we should show it. Which is why he is constantly jeered nowadays and even was before just not as bad."

Learn to use the quote tags.

This is what I'm talking about. If you don't want to debate and can't handle people actually disagreeing with you about Cena, don't.

Lolz, this shows your a n00b. I've been debating over Cena since I got here in July...LMAO

Sly has no problem debating those quotes, in fact he probably will, so why are your whining?

Oh, and Cena marks? I'm not a Cena "mark" at all and I'm sticking up for him.

Mark.

You Cena haters are not the masses, even though you think you are.

From the sounds of MSG and wherever the fuck they were on RAW. It sounds like it's getting bigger.

Sure he gets jeered throughout the arenas, but whenever he wins the cheers outcry the boos.

Cheers of women and children, Cena's main fanbase.

They do it for like 5 seconds and ya' know what I hear afterwards? Crickets.

Watch some of 07's PPV's and notice what I mean.

*Prepares for Sly or another Cena lover to think otherwise..

He's the biggest draw the company has which is why Vince is a smart man to ignore the small percentage of Cena haters (and yes, it is a small percentage).

Triple H could outdraw Cena IMO. He probably does.

One of my old friends went to Raw twice last year, and he and his friend told me they booed Cena just for fun.

Yeah and my dog went to a house show and barked for Cena's entrance...

For a lot of people, it's all panto. If the apparent Cena haters WERE the majority of WWE's fans, he would not be as big as he is today.

I disagree. That is just another lame statement made by the lovers. They don't boo him to be "cool". They boo him because they are FUCKING SICK OF HIM.

It's really not that hard to understand.

 

[HLOTN]

LOL I'm a "n00b" am I? I was around during the days of Sun Tzu and such, so I wouldn't suggest that. I've been browsing the site again for a while and decided to return, just out of sheer boredom.

This is the problem with Cena haters. You're clearly a Cena hater. You've become far more aggressive and defensive than I ever did. That's because I don't have a dying passion to promote Cena because I'm not a "mark" (that term never fails to amuse me). His marks may be defensive, but I am not one of them. Oh, and I like quoting the way I do. It's worked for a number of years now, so why the fuck should I change it for you because you think I'm new to this board? Believe me, I'm anything but new

I would check back and see your comments on Cena since "JULY" but I can't be bothered - especially if all your posts are as hideous as the last.

You dislike Cena, fine. But you're the minority. Cena makes WWE money, and whether people boo or cheer him, at least he garners a reception.

 

[Slyfox696]

I really hate Cena marks.

I still think you're jealous. Come out of the closet Wes. I got a Chain Gang shirt for you already made up. And on the back, I have the emblem of the Mizzou Tiger.

Read back 40-50 pages ago, and I've seen plenty of statements backed up just recently.

You realize that not everyone has the same number of posts per page? In fact, I recommend extending posts per page as it slows down the number of times you have to go to new page.

Most of it's a matter of opinions that you and other idiots think they can change by providing us with the same "well he draws" arguements. Why should I or anyone else give a fuck if Cena draws? I shouldn't that's for WWE not me. I want to be entertained, Cena doesn't do that for me with his mediocre mic skills and mid-card wrestling ability.

Because there's a difference in personal taste and quality.

Personally, you don't like Cena, just like I don't like spinach. But that doesn't mean that spinach isn't good for me, or that John Cena isn't a good wrestler.

How do we determine if he's a good wrestler? By the fact he does draw so well. Which is why you should care about the drawing argument, when you are debating the quality of Cena.

The longer Cena is anywhere near that title, the longer that bandwagon will live.

Which only goes to show how little of Cena's haters hate him because of his ability, but rather the things that are out of Cena's hands.

Lolz, this shows your a n00b. I've been debating over Cena since I got here in July...LMAO

And yet, he/she does a very good job and seems to understand wrestling better than over half of the people who post on the board.

Cheers of women and children, Cena's main fanbase.

Which is a larger demographic than Cena's critics...which is usually contained simply to adolescent males.

So, Cena appeals to a larger demographic AND there are more Cena fans than haters...interesting...

They do it for like 5 seconds and ya' know what I hear afterwards? Crickets.

Watch some of 07's PPV's and notice what I mean.

*Prepares for Sly or another Cena lover to think otherwise..

Yes...just listen to the crickets in this match...

[youtube]PcxK4BSHISE[/youtube]

In fact, those crickets are so obvious that one guy is literally holding his ears after Cena wins.

Triple H could outdraw Cena IMO. He probably does.

Meh...I doubt it. But neither one of them probably are significantly bigger than the other.

I disagree. That is just another lame statement made by the lovers. They don't boo him to be "cool". They boo him because they are FUCKING SICK OF HIM.

Sick of him? He's been gone since October! How can you be sick of someone who hasn't been around for 4 months?

 

[Lil Wes]

LOL I'm a "n00b" am I? I was around during the days of Sun Tzu and such, so I wouldn't suggest that. I've been browsing the site again for a while and decided to return, just out of sheer boredom.

Lolz, You obviously have no idea how to use the quote tags, go figure.

Plus, your 20 posts are astonishing.

This is the problem with Cena haters. You're clearly a Cena hater.

Of course I am.

You've become far more aggressive and defensive than I ever did.

I know. I have E-Bi Polar.

That's because I don't have a dying passion to promote Cena because I'm not a "mark" (that term never fails to amuse me). His marks may be defensive, but I am not one of them. Oh, and I like quoting the way I do. It's worked for a number of years now, so why the fuck should I change it for you because you think I'm new to this board? Believe me, I'm anything but new

Ok.

I would check back and see your comments on Cena since "JULY" but I can't be bothered - especially if all your posts are as hideous as the last.

My posts are hideous. I'll even tell you that.

You dislike Cena, fine. But you're the minority. Cena makes WWE money, and whether people boo or cheer him, at least he garners a reception.

Same lame arguements I've heard forever. Please feel free to debate something I haven't went over.

Most of it's a matter of opinions that you and other idiots think they can change by providing us with the same "well he draws" arguements. Why should I or anyone else give a fuck if Cena draws? I shouldn't that's for WWE not me. I want to be entertained, Cena doesn't do that for me with his mediocre mic skills and mid-card wrestling ability.

Triple H could outdraw Cena IMO. He probably does.

I disagree. That is just another lame statement made by the lovers. They don't boo him to be "cool". They boo him because they are FUCKING SICK OF HIM.

It's really not that hard to understand.

"A) We are fans or we wouldn't be on this board.

B) Who gives a flying fuck what you Cena marks think about are opinions? I sure as hell don't. I don't like him, I think he is tremendously overrated by his fans. He is the champion in an era that is bad if not worse than 94-97 with zero competition whatsoever. He's not great like you and others make him out to be.

C) We should all know Vince isn't listening by now but why should we care? If we don't like that character they are trying to put together with Cena. Then we should show it. Which is why he is constantly jeered nowadays and even was before just not as bad."

^^

Talk about me not wanting to debate, Why can't you instead of ranting and raveing about how you were here when SZTSUUSO was here?

 

[HBK-aholic]

HBK-aholic, you amplify everything that is wrong with Cena haters. All of your comments are bias and opinionated. As sly said, you're clearly oblivious to the world of business altogether.

If my comments are opiniated what the hell are yours?

Sly classes me as preferring added qualities not understanding the business. I think it's just him who doesn't like anything that isn't strictly 'written down' about the WWE.

You're in the minority, don't forget that

That minority seems to be growing recently.

Btw I love how you didn't actually reply to anything I said to you, yet left Sly to do it. Great debater you are (Y).

And yet, you are one of the minority who thinks that. But, clearly, even though most people disagree with you, including those who are in the actual wrestling business and are famous for wrestling, are wrong and you are right.

Do you realize how conceited your position makes you?

Do you realise how ignorant everything you say makes you?

I didn't say they were wrong, because I, unlike you, allow people to have their own opinions.

And why did he make Vince money? Because he was good. It's not hard to understand, yet you seem to still be struggling with it.

But at the end of the day, making money isn't the only thing that makes someone good. We've had this debate too many times before..

Why wouldn't the biggest draw in the company deserve the top belt? Do you intentionally try to make yourself look ignorant to the ways of the wrestling business? Hell, forget the wrestling business, do you understand anything about business in the free market economy in general? At all?

Sly why don't you listen to yourself? People understand that Vince's main priority is money. We understand that. Yet just because we see more than that, and like something extra in our favourite wrestlers you hate it. You don't understand the joy of wrestling because all you see is money.

He/she made twice as much sense as I've ever seen you make in a topic about Cena.

Because they agreed with you?

Why would he want to listen to you, when your understanding of professional wrestling is so obviously limited?

I'd actually say it was wider than yours, seeings as I understand everything, yet still have my own opinions.

You better stick with me HBK-aholic. After I'm done with you, then maybe you'll learn a little bit about what wrestling is really about. Thank goodness that I'm here to teach YOU right from wrong.

You've taught me nothing except how ignorant you can be when it comes to Cena and the WWE for that matter. And the day I agree with you is the day I lose all faith in humanity.

 

[Hyorinmaru]

I said it before and i'll say it again. The reason I don't like Cena is because all his matches are the same. He gets pounded on like a piece of meat the entire match and then hits the same 5 moves and ends up winning. Just look at his WM21 match against JBL. Bradshaw dominates the entire match, Cena basically 'Hulks Up' hits his 5 moves of doom and wins the WWE title. I don't like wrestlers like this and that includes Hogan.

 

[HLOTN]

Total Package:

You know, I wasn't raving about how I was here before until you commented on how I'm a n00b. You really are the most moronic poster I've ever come across on any board, and that's saying something. I see you have the stupid forum gimmick of tough guy, which is hilariously childish. Grow up and stop blabbering on about post counts for christ's sake.

HBK-aholic:

I actually didn't see your reply, so I can't apolagise. Plus, I don't want to because... I dont want to.

"If my comments are opiniated what the hell are yours?"

I am opinionated, but at least I'm objective. I dislike Batista, but I can accept why he's still main eventing.

"Sly classes me as preferring added qualities not understanding the business. I think it's just him who doesn't like anything that isn't strictly 'written down' about the WWE."

No, you really don't seem to realise Cena makes them the most money so that's why they run with him on top. It's been said a million times sure, but thats only because Cena haters can't take in what's being said.

"That minority seems to be growing recently."

OK, well when Cena stops being a top draw and sellings buckets of merch you win. At the moment, you're nowhere near.

"Do you realise how ignorant everything you say makes you?

I didn't say they were wrong, because I, unlike you, allow people to have their own opinions."

I agree that it's good for people to form their own opinions. If people didn't, the world would be boring. Its the way you express your opinion that appears as though your Cena hatred clouds all of your judgement.

"But at the end of the day, making money isn't the only thing that makes someone good. We've had this debate too many times before.."

No it's not the only factor that makes Cena good, but it sure as hell explains why he's te top guy in the company. Do you get that?

"Sly why don't you listen to yourself? People understand that Vince's main priority is money. We understand that. Yet just because we see more than that, and like something extra in our favourite wrestlers you hate it. You don't understand the joy of wrestling because all you see is money."

But you all bitch and complain that Cena is on top and always give different solutions, opposing wrestlers who could fill his spot in the ME. The fact is, no-one (at the moment) can fill his shoes.

"I'd actually say it was wider than yours, seeings as I understand everything, yet still have my own opinions."

Good to hear you have your opinions, but let's not let that stop you from being objective now, shall we?

"You've taught me nothing except how ignorant you can be when it comes to Cena and the WWE for that matter. And the day I agree with you is the day I lose all faith in humanity."

I'm sure he gave up on getting you to agree with him along time ago.

EDIT WES: Since you obviously don't know how to use quote tags[QUOTE ][/QUOTE ], I fixed it so others could understand the post. That is all.