Well as much as I want to agree with You X, I think after last night and the initial crowd reaction, Cena is over more then you want to realize. The "boo" "yeah" is not an effective spot, and I think most people do it just to play along. It's the new "you suck", "what" or "boring(lance Storm style). The initial reaction Cena got was strong. Even the hardcore Smarks in MSG marked out for the guy like no other. Cena is certainly over and more over then most people are willing to admit.
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Well as much as I want to agree with You X, I think after last night and the initial crowd reaction, Cena is over more then you want to realize. The "boo" "yeah" is not an effective spot, and I think most people do it just to play along. It's the new "you suck", "what" or "boring(lance Storm style). The initial reaction Cena got was strong. Even the hardcore Smarks in MSG marked out for the guy like no other. Cena is certainly over and more over then most people are willing to admit.
i think the big pop was outta shock...like 'oh my god wrestling actually fooled us!' but then the realization that it was cena set in and the rightful boos started..it woulda been more awesome for the big show to come out...i just hate him even more for actually winning....look what has happened while hes gone...jeff hardy got a shot at the title of all people...somebody else had it right when they said no one can even remember cena lost cleanly..even the undertaker of all people has lost cleanly...the 'good guy' has got to lose sometimes..it makes the story even better...hes vanilla ice to me in a nut shell..i dont think ive ever liked him for his wanna be black rapper crap hes got goin on...the best thing for him would be to turn completely heal..not that would be cool
See the bolded part right there is exactly the problem and trouble the WWE is in right now. The only person available was Jeff Hardy. Unlike most of the teenagers or fans that have watched under ten years, I can give two shits about a guy that has had zero good non gimmick matches getting a push towards the gold. The guy is terrible and was simply filling a spot that he didn't deserve to be in.
Losing cleanly, why does Cena need to lose cleanly at this point. Dig up some old tapes of heel Cena, he lost a ton, and cleanly back then. I can name them all off if you really like. Hogan didn't lose cleanly from 84 to 90, and guess what, when he lost cleanly, it was a big fucking deal. Cena is in the middle of his run, there is no need for the guy to job cleanly, plain and simple. He is the franchise player of the WWE. Him and Randy Orton are the future of the company, and they are going to put on one hell of a match.
How can people not be excited. A main event of Wrestlemania minus Triple H or Shawn Michaels. That's a dream come true. It' time for the the WWE to quit investing so much in these older guys. Trips, Taker, HBK, they are all on the downside of their career. It's time to pass the torch to the gusy like Cena, Orton and Edge. It's time for the young guys to shit or get off the pot when it comes to main eventing Wrestlemania. Having a guy like Trips, HBK and Taker in that spot, while appealing for name value, is safe. For me, I don't want my Wrestlemania to be safe. I want to see some hungry young bastards in there ready to steal the show. Orton vs. Cena is going to be that match.
I've constantly said that Hogan had way fewer moves than Cena, yet people drool and piss their pants whenever "Real American" starts to play, and beg for another Hogan return/title run. And its sad that people cant even respect the man for coming back 3-4 months ahead of expectations from a career-threatening injury
I respenct Cena coming back and risking another injury but I am not looking forward at all to the Cena-Orton buildup to Mania. I was entertained by the Orton/Hardy feud as I thought it was written well, but if Cena-Orton are going to go back and forth on the microphone for the next 3 months and get 15 minutes to start the show it's going to be a long three months. I think both are decent wrestlers but both are stale to me right now.
Tsk tsk tsk Shocky my man, what's happened dude? Did you just say Orton vs. Cena will steal the show at Wrestlemania? I mean, first off, even if it was the best match of the night a main event can't really "steal the show" considering its a main event.
But secondly, and more importantly...who cares? Who wants to see John Cena vs. Randy Orton at Wrestlemania? I can save America the next 3 monthes with the next three words: John Cena Wins. There you go. Now you didn't have to waste 3 monthes of your time knowing full god damn well whos going to win.
I'm sorry---I don't dislike John Cena in matches. I dislike the John Cena character. And the John Cena character makes it so that no wrestling match involving him is ever in the slightest bit dramatic. At all. Because the same thing will always happen---kinda like with Hogan in the 80s and 90s, but atleast then it was new and fresh. Now it's stale as all hell. We all know what will happen---and anyone who is atleast 12 years old and DOESN'T know what will happen, is a god damn idiot. John Cena wins. Always. Always. Always.
And wheres the fun in that? It's like betting on a fixed boxing match---you know the result, so theres no fun or drama involved.
If the WWE is courting towards that ever so profitable 6-12 year olds market, then keep pumping the Cena character up like he is now. It's safe, a guaranteed money-maker, no risks involved at all. And it's also boring as allmighty fuck. The best wrestling television of all time has come from taking risks, from being unpredictable, and even if it occassionaly results in mistakes (god knows there were some shitty angles in the Attitude era to go along with all the great matches; Meat anyone? Beaver Cleaver?) but damnit atleast it was fun. Wheres the fun in being safe here?
I don't dislike John Cena. I actually think he's a pretty talented guy, he's solid stuff on the mic, and capable enough in the ring.
I just despise how his character is portrayed. Because it's boring; and frankly its also insulting to anyone over the age of 12.
While it is certainly frustrating as an older fan of the product, you can't deny that the WWE is moving it's way back to child friendly programming. Take a look at the crowd shots. You'll notice more and mroe it's focusing on the children in the crowd once again. I don't watch WWE nearly as much as I used to, so when i watch a pay per view, the child images stand out like a sore thumb.
Like it or not, this is the direction that the company is going in. Is it frustrating that they are putting a child friendly product on at 9 pm ET, you bet your ass, but it's one of those things, you have to either get on board or not watch it. I don't watch except for pay per views, and those are usually on DVD. For the audience that the WWE is trying to attract now, John Cena is their guy, simple. I may not like it, or agree with it, but what can you do.
But to argue Cena and Orton and that Cena is going to win and wins allt he time, fair enough. But how come, and I mark out for the guy more then anyone, no one complains about the Undertaker and 15-0. We've been on the fast track to Edge vs. Undertaker at Mania since May, but is anyone going to complain in two months when the Undertaker wins and goes 16-0, I doubt it.
Slim Pickns
Has Been Drafted To RAW
Its not all about who wins, the point is that the fued and match will be entertaining, not to you obviously, but to most of us. It will get most peoples attention, even the Cena haters who will whine the whole time about how he will always win. I'm not saying you personally will do this (I'm not going to pretend I know anyone on this board) but most of the Cena haters end up giving him more attention than his fans. All this is good for the WWE. Cena is getting noticed for everything he does, more than anyone else on the roster.
No you're totally right Shocky, it is (for the most part) the same deal with the Undertaker and his Wrestlemania streak.
But that came out of coincidence. The WWE didn't decide 15 years ago "Hey, incase this cartoon character bad guy we have here who nobody expects to last more then a cup of coffee here hits it big, lets make sure he's undefeated every year at Wrestlemania". No one in the WWE even made mention to it until around 2001-02. And since then they've carried on with that.
But two things make that situation vastly different from Cena's.
1: The Undertaker is not, nor has he been, the main face or heel for the WWE for almost 6 years now. Not since his mean streak with the Undisputed title that saw him defeat guys like Hogan. He's not in the spotlight all the time like John Cena is. John Cena is, unfortunately, the WWE's biggest star right now.
2: The Undertaker still loses quite a few times a year. Much, much, much more then Cena does for that matter. Granted, Cena is a younger talent, and Taker is at that stage where he should be putting younger guys over, but I still wouldn't say that this is a fair assumption.
Besides, the Undertaker is a veteran with two decades worth of experience. He's been wrestling since Cena was in his diapers. Once Cena's got a decade under his belt, he can go right ahead and squash guy after guy.
Entertaining? You find predictability entertaining? So, you like watching movies when you already know the ending too I guess? The match itself could be entertaining, but thats about as far as this feud will go in the "entertainment" factor. And I'm not a Cena hater. I have no problem with the man John Cena. I'm a WWE Writer hater I guess if anything, because they're the ones that have pushed John Cena to be more unstoppable than the Terminator meets the Iron Giant.
And getting attention doesn't equate to some sort of moral victory here. The Nazi movement gets a lot of attention, doesn't say jack shit about Nazis though does it?
Anyways, William Regal just totally fucked up his promo on RAW, so I'm going to go enjoy that for the maybe 20 minutes of RAW that won't involve Cena-Orton. And wow I thought that terrible pop song was Umaga's new theme song for a second there on that No Way Out video package. (ROFL at how much bigger the crowd popped for Jeff Hardy appearing on the titan tron compared to Cena's entrance)
But that came out of coincidence. The WWE didn't decide 15 years ago "Hey, incase this cartoon character bad guy we have here who nobody expects to last more then a cup of coffee here hits it big, lets make sure he's undefeated every year at Wrestlemania". No one in the WWE even made mention to it until around 2001-02. And since then they've carried on with that.
But two things make that situation vastly different from Cena's.
1: The Undertaker is not, nor has he been, the main face or heel for the WWE for almost 6 years now. Not since his mean streak with the Undisputed title that saw him defeat guys like Hogan. He's not in the spotlight all the time like John Cena is. John Cena is, unfortunately, the WWE's biggest star right now.
2: The Undertaker still loses quite a few times a year. Much, much, much more then Cena does for that matter. Granted, Cena is a younger talent, and Taker is at that stage where he should be putting younger guys over, but I still wouldn't say that this is a fair assumption.
Besides, the Undertaker is a veteran with two decades worth of experience. He's been wrestling since Cena was in his diapers. Once Cena's got a decade under his belt, he can go right ahead and squash guy after guy.
Entertaining? You find predictability entertaining? So, you like watching movies when you already know the ending too I guess? The match itself could be entertaining, but thats about as far as this feud will go in the "entertainment" factor. And I'm not a Cena hater. I have no problem with the man John Cena. I'm a WWE Writer hater I guess if anything, because they're the ones that have pushed John Cena to be more unstoppable than the Terminator meets the Iron Giant.
And getting attention doesn't equate to some sort of moral victory here. The Nazi movement gets a lot of attention, doesn't say jack shit about Nazis though does it?
Anyways, William Regal just totally fucked up his promo on RAW, so I'm going to go enjoy that for the maybe 20 minutes of RAW that won't involve Cena-Orton. And wow I thought that terrible pop song was Umaga's new theme song for a second there on that No Way Out video package. (ROFL at how much bigger the crowd popped for Jeff Hardy appearing on the titan tron compared to Cena's entrance)
HBK-aholic
Shawn Michaels ❤
I aren't denying him coming back was a great trick by the WWE. And everyone complained they didn't want HHH to win. But Cena shouldn't have come back to that. It's just showed a lot of fans things aren't going to change this time around.
That is because he never lost it through pin fall or submission
I'm not saying he isn't entitled to a rematch. But I think everyone has already planned out the events of what will happen, and will probably be right.
Am I talking about reasons I hate Cena? No, I'm talking about reasons I hate him winning the rumble, just like I would anyone who had come back from that injury to do so.
Right, because I've never said this before..
The reason I hate Cena, is because he's boring, in the ring and out of it. When he first started out I was a Cena fan. I thought his gimmick was new and the WWE needed it. Then he changed. His gimmick now, is nothing. Look at the way he entered the Rumble, people who act like that on the streets are the people that make others just laugh at them because they think they look good doing that. I know I do. His style inside the ring, is nothing new. I aren't going to use the '5 moves' argument because a lot of great wrestlers only have that amount of moves, yet the way they put them together is a lot more entertaining.
Ya well stars don't usually come back to a win at the Royal Rumble either.
Him coming back was a good idea I aren't saying it wasn't. He just didn't deserve the win. When he won, a face is meant to have a huge mahority of the crowd cheering him, so that you can brely hear the boos. Those boos were visible that night. Therefore he isn't as good as his fans say he is at working the audience.
Cena hardly has long feuds. Look at the Shawn V Kennedy feud recently, it's a really goood new feud amd Kennedy has done really well in it. Orton HHH, another Legend V Legend Killer matchw ould be sure to draw. It doesn't HAVE to be that he backed out for that reason. That's not a fact, and unless you site a source where he's actually said that few people will accept it as one. WWE doesn't need Cena like everyone likes to think.
he is the best in the business right now, he draws, yaddy yaddy yaddy. There is not a wrestler in that locker room who can match john in the ring. He is the best in the world today, and he will be the best until someone dethrones him... Cena is a good entertainer because of his passion, his physchology, his selling, and his ability to grasp the crowd... that is why he is the best, it isnt because he plays a super hero
There's not a wrestler that can match him in the ring? Lmao seriously?! You're using his in ring ability as something good about him now? I've always understood gfans saying he draws, makes money etc but I can't seriously believe people think Cena is good in the ring, and not only good, the best? Is Cena the only person you watch wrestle?
I'm sure I tried using passion as an example about Shawn before and you tried to say it was invalid and brought football into it.
If Mr McMahon can't hear the boos that were so clearly heard on the TV, maybe he's dumber than that.
Satan's Hockey
Pre-Show Stalwart
I guess it sounded different on tv than it did live. I was at MSG for the Rumble as well as Raw tonight in Philly. At MSG there were a ton of boos as soon as his music hit, maybe it didn't come across well on tv but there were tons of people in my section who had looks of disgust on so of couse they aren't going to show that. Also when Cena won there were a lot of people pissed off around me and outside the garden there were tonsssss of people chanting Cena sucks. Also don't judge what you see on tv as to what is really going on because I just watched Cena do the opening of Raw and it was a lot different than what was going on there. The WWE cameras show you bunch of kids and people with Welcome Back John Cena signs but there were people in my section giving him the finger and booing the hell out of him but you won't ever see a close up of a guy giving a middle finger to him. I also didn't buy tickets to go boo John Cena, I don't even buy tickets to see John Cena at all, he just happens to be at the shows in my eyes. I go to see the other guys I actually enjoy watching and I go because it's the WWE and I have been going to shows forever and I will continue to do so if Cena is there or not.
Why don't you que up the video of Summerslam 2002. See if you hear any boos there. Or Wrestlemania 18. See if you here them there.
You mean like Kennedy over HBK? Or Edge over Batista? Or Orton over Hardy? Or Orton over Jericho? Or Orton over HBK? Or Chavo over Punk? Or...I don't know. Heels go over quite a bit.
Well, for sure on Raw in London against HBK.
If you are saying there was no drama in the RVD match, or the Umaga match, or the HBK match, or the Lashley match, or the Orton match, then you're not being fair. Everytime Cena wrestled one of them (except perhaps for Umaga) the IWC boards would come alive with expecation and anticipation of whether Cena was finally going to go down. Hell, I know boards that were overwhelmingly predicting that Khali would take down Cena. To say there was no drama and the match ending was predictable is completely unfair, as when the matches happened there was a complete opposite going on.
Except we know that HBK was an asshole back in the day. He admits it. Show me anything that suggests the same of Cena. And, how do you fake a torn pectoral muscle anyway?
No, because your statement just made absolutely no sense. You could have the same thing about HHH and I would have felt the same way. You can't fake a torn pectoral muscle. The WWE would know. And, it's not like Cena has ever had a problem getting beat before. It's not like Cena hasn't lost (to RVD, Edge, HBK clean on Raw). And all reports have always stated that Cena and Orton are pretty good friends and usually work well together. So, there's really no basis for saying that Cena would do something like that.
I understood completely what you were saying and what you were responding to. I'm pretty sure I even acknowledged that in my post.
You said there was a chance that Cena might have faked an injury just to get out of having a match with Orton. You said that you didn't believe that was the case, but that if it was that would make Cena a lowlife. You said there was at least the possibility. I was responding to you saying there was a responsibility and explaining why it was nearly impossible.
Change? Who needs in when Cena works?
Maybe Cena will lose cleanly? It could make Orton look really really strong. After all since October he has been made to look weak
That is hate that actually makes no sense, the man never lost to Orton. Cena came back from an injury in like 4 months, after he was suppose to be out close to 1 full year
It is a gimmick, I guarantee you he doesn't walk down the streets of Massachusetts throwing up word life signs unless he is in charcter. How is he boring? Everyone blames his moves, that isn't him, that is booking.
Yeah because a guy that puts up consistent 4 star matches is not entertaining
your point? Biggest face in the company headlining WM (possibly) seems like a good business decision
He never lost. Instead he could have came back on a Raw, got put in the title hunt without winning anything. But he won the rumble so he earned his spot
not necessarily, faces get booed, and get cheered, all that matters is, Cena is getting the hwole crowd to either cheer, or yell "you suck". He gets a full crowd reaction, not many wrestlers can say that.
Meh, that feud is over i believe, and it showed signs of continuing in the rumble. But do you want this type of match headlining the biggest ppv of em all? Wait why am i asking, it has Shawn Michaels in it, it must be gold
then why has it been scraped 3 or 4 times?
Yes. yes they do, he draws, I believed that was proven in the Cena love thread in the LD.... Go their and find it...
Yeah because a guy with no in ring ability is not capable of putting on consistent 4 star matches
.. Why does he have good, solid matches week in and week out? It isnt because he is a talent less hack..... Cena is one of the best wrestlers in the world today. Champion for the better part of two years, he puts on consistent 4 star matches, he was the champ in the biggest wrestling promotion in the world.what does passion have to do with the real aspects of professional football?I'm sure I tried using passion as an example about Shawn before and you tried to say it was invalid and brought football into it.
I have said this all ready, he is getting a full, let me repeat, a full crowd reaction, not many superstars can say that.
Yeah because a guy that puts up consistent 4 star matches is not entertaining
Yeah because a guy with no in ring ability is not capable of putting on consistent 4 star matches
Brian, What the fuck are you talking about?
Consistent 4 star matches, ROFLMAO. Do you even know what a 4 star match is? No. Because Cena has had (1) only 1 deserving 4 star match and that was with HBK in London. Anything else is bullshit IMO. He's had some other good matches with Lashley and Orton but they were not 4 star matches, don't kid yourself Brian. 3 at best.
Hell even his feuds aren't worth 4 stars. The Umaga, HBK and Lashley feuds bored me shitless until the matches they decided to pull out of their ass. The Orton feud was one of the best I've seen from Cena but was booked piss poor at Unforgiven.
Also what is this about he "has good solid matches week in and week out'? Do you even watch the show? I think not. I see better mid card and squash matches than a Cena RAW main event. 1 because they are usually booked poorly and 2 it's just a way too make Cena look like he overcomes all odds at the next PPV.
So I have no clue what you are talking about here.
I think the matches were 4 star matches. So does Dave Meltzer. So did Jim Ross. So did almost every fan in the arena at the GAB.
So, obviously, there are plenty of people who thought the Cena vs. Lashley was a 4 star affair.
Wait...i thought you said before that his Raw matches were all the same? Where he gets beat down, comes back and wins the match. So, how can he win all the Raw matches, and be made to look like he has such a struggle and odds to overcome? I'm thinking you may be contradicting yourself.
He does have solid matches week in and week out. And I've been watching Raw since you were in diapers. Can you explain exactly how the matches are bad, and booked poorly?
Slim Pickns
Has Been Drafted To RAW
You cannot say that you know for sure what the ending of the fued will bring. You said before that Cena was going to win the title at Wrestlemania. Well, now we know that the title match is taking place at No Way Out and Vince may change this as well. People watch wrestling to be entertained and the majority of us are entertained by Cena. If you want to compare it to movies, look how many people saw National Treasure 2 since it opened. How many of them do you think went in their saying, "I wonder if Ben Gates will find the Treasure?" Not many, they just wanted to be entertained. Even the people who boo Cena give him attention, if the didn't, he'd be main eventing Heat against Charlie Haas on WWE.com instead of Headlining WrestleMania against HHH and HBK.
Comparing Cena to Nazi's? Now you are going a little far. Wrestling is about entertainment, and people are entertained by Cena. The Nazi party was a facist movement trying to turn Germany into a world superpower. These two things are not related at all.
Sly you're starting to not even care what other people say anymore. Did I or did I not JUST FRIGGIN SAY that the Rock got booed big time at Wrestlemania 18? That was because he was facing THE MOST POPULAR MAN IN WRESTLING HISTORY.
First off, the Rock got a huge pop when he came out at Summerslam 2002. Don't believe me? Watch the video.
[youtube]nDcJNQ1NOrc[/youtube]
Secondly, did you happen to stop to think that maybe those people were booing the Rock because of the fact that everyone and their mother knew that this was the Rock's last match in WWE for a while? That he was leaving again to do more movies? You don't think the fans were pissed off about that? Besides the boos are minor at best, nothing compared to the heat that John Cena draws from a crowd.
You've got a point ther Sly, I'll admit that. Maybe heels do win more then I think, just doesn't seem that way everytime a heel gets within a 100 mile radius of the Golden Boy, John Cena.
Yeah Sly, thats actually exactly what I'm saying. The only match out of those that involved drama was the RVD match, and that was only because of the location of the match. Cena vs. Umaga...dramatic? Cena vs. Lashley dramatic? Excuse me? Lashley is garbage, utter garbage, and if anyone thinks elsewise they're simply a moron. He's as intimidating as my grandmother. Who's been dead for the last 25 years. Cena vs. Orton? More crapola...Cena vs. Umaga? You serious? John Cena, as the underdog character. Wonder who will come out on top in that feud.
Oh we do know this huh? Damn, how many times did you hang out with HBK again Sly? I think it's pretty ignorant to say how someone acts when you've never even met them. And you completely misconstrued what he was saying, he was in no way saying that Cena did fake that injury, he was just bringing up the coincidences to both situations. Both champions dropped the belt due to injuries. He wasn't seriously suggesting John Cena faked his injury, so calm down.
So you, Dave Meltzer, and Jim Ross' opinion is more valid and important than someone elses? And whos the judge of that, you Sly? Come on man, thats downright asshole-territory.
And I guess if the majority like it, it must be good. Isn't that how things usually work in life, right? The most popular album in the country is usually the greatest album available at that time right? The most popular people in school are generally the best people right? Popularity doesn't equal quality. The moment you start believing that is the moment you've lost sight of whats truly important in life.
And why do you have to keep acting dumb to people? You know damn well what he's referring to when he says that John Cena is the underdog. Thats the role he's built up for every god damn week on television. You're trying to tell me theres anymore of an underdog thing to do then enter the biggest match of the year (Royal Rumble) with a bad injury that hasn't fully healed? Thats what they're playing it up as, just like the 20,000 times before that. Theres not a single PPV buildup where Cena isn't made to look like a punk bitch in, only to miraculiously come to save the day at the PPV main events. Unless of course he's just squashing someone.
Where exactly did I compare Cena to Nazis? I didn't, at all. I mentioned the two in the same post, thats about as far as the connection went. It was a simple statement, that didn't compare either to the other.
You're missing your own point. You said that Rock never got booed as the mega babyface. I'm showing you that he did.
Well, I think most people would agree that Orton would have gone over Cena had Cena not gotten hurt. Which would have given Orton a huge push for being the guy who brought down Cena.
You need to watch the matches again, and review threads from the time the matches happen. Because the matches were very intense and exciting, with the crowd on the edge of their seat. And people talked about how they thought THIS would be the time someone would beat Cena. Just go back and watch the matches and review the threads.
Yes, we do. He said so, in his book. He talked about how he was childish and difficult to get along with and didn't care what anyone thought of him. That's called being an asshole.
I'm not saying he is now, just that he was. I have a lot of respect for him now.
Well, HBK was the one who said it, and I'm pretty certain HBK was around Michaels every day of his life...
No, I didn't misconstrue what he was saying. Go back and read the whole discussion again.
You misunderstood. Wes made it sounds as if those matches had no shot at being a 4 star match. My point was that many many people feel that it was, and to criticize Brian for saying they are 4 star matches is ridiculous, because many many people feel the same.
No, just in professional wrestling, where the sole purpose is to entertain the majority, in order to have the majority pay to be entertained by it.
In wrestling, yes, it does. Because that's the whole point.
We're not talking about life, we're talking about professional wrestling.
What's dumb is when people bash Cena for getting beat, AND bash him for winning. They bash him for being superior to others, and bash him when he makes them look superior. They bash him for putting guys over, and bash him for "burying" guys. That's what is dumb. People who bitch about John Cena don't really have any point usually, they are just going to bitch.
People bitch about his character, and yet his character has changed no less than 3 times since he won the belt at Wrestlemania 21. People bitch about his moveset, despite the fact he has added numerous moves like the Blockbuster, STFU, top rope legdrop etc to his repetoire. People bitch that all of his matches are the same, and yet when asked to describe how his match with Lashley was like his match with HBK on Raw, or how his Raw match with HBK is like his match with Umaga, or his Umaga match is like his match with RVD, they can't do it. Because his matches aren't the same, people just don't want to be bothered by that. That's what is dumb.
What's dumb is the fact that people say John Cena isn't any good when he's one of, if not THE top dog in the WWE, the biggest wrestling promotion in the world, with a 70 years history. These same people presume they understand what makes a quality wrestler more than Vince McMahon, who has single-handily monopoloized the wrestlnig busines, and who feels Cena is a good worker. These people think they know more than Hulk Hogan, the biggest draw in wrestling, who has endorsed Cena and his ability. They think they know more than Bret Hart, who has gone on record a couple of times endorsing John Cena. These people think they understand more about the wrestling business and what makes a good wrestler than Chris Jericho does, whose quote in my sig, given in PWI magazine, tells you exactly what Jericho feels about Cena.
What's dumb is how a bunch of teenagers go around claiming that Cena only appeals to "kids", when many of them aren't even of legal age yet. What's dumb is how Cena has put on a lot of good matches with a variety of wrestlers using a various number of styles, and people still claim that he is a bad wrestler.
What's dumb is how people claim to be wrestling fans, and then act like they don't enjoy anything about wrestling.
That's what's dumb.
Slim Pickns
Has Been Drafted To RAW
I said Cena gets everyones attention everytime he does something, you responded with sodid Nazi's. That is not the same thing at all. Ok, you didn't call Cena a Nazi but you did compare the world of professional wrestling to the Nazi movement. Thats a bit of a stretch, Cena gets attention which brings ratings anyway you look at it.
If you call the Rock in the summer of 2002 "mega babyface", than he sure did. If you call that though, you'd be mistaken.
The only one of those people you mentioned who people thought had a solid chance of beating Cena for the title was HBK, and that was it. Go back to the threads yourself, because I don't remember a whole clamoring of people saying "CENA IS TOTALLY GONNA LOSE TO UMAGA, ITS TOTALLY OBVIOUS!". Most of those matches were shit. Cena-HBK at WM23 is very overrated. It's average, not WM main event material at all. It compares to say, the title match of WM 11. It should have been so much better then what it was. Umaga-Cena was a pretty good match, I'll give him that, but I didn't expect for even the slightest second that Umaga would win, no way man not at all. Same with the rest of 'em.
The same book which so many people, including you if I remember correctly, have said is full of bullshit? The same book where HBK lies continuously about how amazing he is apparently right? So if it's positive, its a lie, if it's negative, it's true. Gotcha. Perfect logic. And when did not caring what anyone thought of him equate to being an asshole? Isn't that what most of our Hollywood heroes are? Arnold, Stallone, and every other badass action star is the same character. What makes us hold these guys up to a pedestal, then criticize HBK for both of them having the same beliefs?
Oh and the sole purpose of album being recorded isn't to make money? Why else would studios release them?
Have you forgotten about the artistic expression that wrestling can provide? Apparently so. The way two men can make you care about them for no good reason? The way they can amaze you when they do some crazy move and you think to yourself "HOLY SHIT is that guy athletic". You've forgotten about, as ECW used to put it, the SPORT of professional wrestling. Granted it's a taste for the minority, but that minority is very vocal and strong, and god damnit Sly we aren't going away just because you don't agree with out opinions.
So is spending so much time defending a fake-fighter who you don't know, and in all likelihood would be laughed at by the general public for liking. Because for all the things you say about how great John Cena matches are, you don't seem like you enjoy wrestling much at all. You look at wrestling from the exact same critical smark standpoint that people like me do, you just like to think that you're more just in your view because you happen to be a super critic smark for wrestlers who suceed monetarily and as the result of large pushes. So don't act like you're better then us Sly man, you're much better then that, and you're a good guy. But atleast we smarks admit that we're smarks.
You don't remember correctly, because I never said that.
No, the fact he was childish and difficult to get along with, and didn't care if people thought that was wrong is what makes him an asshole.
No, not always. Artists can have varying reasons to release albums. Sometimes for musical gain, sometimes for money, sometimes just to fill a deal.
Do you not understand that the only way to objectively define what makes it good art is by what appeals to the masses, as that is the sole purpose of professional wrestling? I mean, if I go out and paint a flower on my roof and call it art and think it's the greatest thing ever, does it mean it's good art? Nope.
You will never care about a wrestler for no good reason. If you care about a wrestler, then that means they have done a decent job of entertaining you. The more people who care about a wrestler, the more people who have been entertained, which means the higher quality the worker is.
When wrestling fans begin to appreciate wrestlers because they do circus moves, that'll be the day professional wrestling will die. I can go to the circus and see a lot cooler things that watching 200 pound ugly men in tights do flips. If I want to see athleticism, I'll watch an NBA basketball guy. If I want entertainment that simulates the struggle between good and evil, with characters that I care about, and who portray that struggle through the illusion of an athletic contest, then I'll watch professional wrestling.
Professional wrestling is not a sport. When there is no competition between the two sides who are facing each other, it is not a sport.
How is that dumb? I defend why I enjoy watching him and why others enjoy watching him?
But that doesn't matter, right? Because popularity doesn't make for quality? Isn't that what you said?
Sure I like wrestling. I watch it all the time. And if I don't like something (ROH for example) I don't watch it. I like the WWE. I defend the WWE as much as anyone here. Sure there are some overrated talentless hacks like Kennedy that I cannot stand, but for the most part I enjoy it.
When have I ever said anything bad about the WWE, that would make you think that I don't enjoy wrestling?
No, I think if one thing has proven true, time and again, it's that I don't look at wrestling from the same viewpoint as others. I look at it objectively, whereas others have these biased notions of whats good and what is not.
Now, I know that sounds entirely arrogant, so let me explain, because I don't mean that to be as bad as it sounds. Generally, if you'll look at the majority of my posts, with the exception of Cena and Hogan, I rarely put my two cents in about how I feel about a wrestler. Generally what I do is explain if they are good or bad and WHY they are in the position they are in. People look at the WWE's decision and criticize them based on their own personal tastes. I look at the WWE's decision and do so from more of a business outlook to determine WHY they make those decisions, and when doing so, generally understand those decisions.
Take for example the Rumble. Most IWC members look at that and criticize the WWE, because they don't like Cena and don't think he's good. I look at that and say that it was a great decision, not because I like Cena, but because Cena is one of their biggest moneymakers, and the WWE obviously wants to get a shot in the arm financially and in viewership. That is what sets me apart from the general IWC. I generally put aside personal feelings in my post and try to remain objective as possible. And while I like John Cena, objectively speaking, the case can easily be made he's one of the best in the world. And so, I go and explain why.
I also like Shelton Benjamin, but you don't exactly see me going around telling everyone he deserves a major push and puts on great matches, do you?
I hope that made sense.
I hate the term smarks (even though I'm aware I do use it), just because so many people who label themselves as such are anything but a smark. A smark means someone who is smart to the business (understands it) but still allows themselves to be worked by the wrestlers during a show. There are very few smarks around, as there are very few who truly understand the business, and those who do usually don't allow themselves to be worked, but rather try to pass their knowledge off and act superior to the show.
The ECW One Night Stand crowd is a prime example of people thinking they are a lot smarter than they really are, and who do not allow themselves to enjoy the show, but rather think themselves superior to the show.
Slyfox, still protecting the WWE's golden boy huh? You know, I thought that this thread was dead, but it looks like the circle will continue.
I give props to the WWE and to John Cena for what happened at the Royal Rumble. It was unexpected and it was entertaining. I didn't expect to see Cena until after Wrestlemania. I have to, once more, applaud Cena on his passion and work ethic for professional wrestling. To come back from an injury that isn't fully healed yet. Outstanding. I just hope that he didn't jump the gun and get's injured again.
Now that I have the respect out of the way. Everyone knows that I can't stand this wrestler. Once again, he comes back and defies all odds and has emerged once more as the messiah of professional wrestling. As soon as his music hit and I realized that I wasn't having a nightmare, I changed my Rumble pick from HHH to John Cena, because let's face it, the return of John Cena means the return of predictability and that means that every big match that Cena has, he is going to win.
I was just starting to get into the new story lines and the new entertainment value on Raw. I enjoyed the new title contenders and the new title matches. With Cena back, however, we go back to the last 2 yrs of Raw.
Let me tell you what I think the title scene will be on Raw for the next couple of months. Cena will win at No Way Out along with HHH. It will be Cena and HHH, once again, at Wrestlemania, but wait. Randy Orton get's a rematch clause. So Wrestlmania will dawn a triple threat match between John Cena, HHH, and Randy Orton. John Cena the winner of course.
I give props to the WWE and to John Cena for what happened at the Royal Rumble. It was unexpected and it was entertaining. I didn't expect to see Cena until after Wrestlemania. I have to, once more, applaud Cena on his passion and work ethic for professional wrestling. To come back from an injury that isn't fully healed yet. Outstanding. I just hope that he didn't jump the gun and get's injured again.
Now that I have the respect out of the way. Everyone knows that I can't stand this wrestler. Once again, he comes back and defies all odds and has emerged once more as the messiah of professional wrestling. As soon as his music hit and I realized that I wasn't having a nightmare, I changed my Rumble pick from HHH to John Cena, because let's face it, the return of John Cena means the return of predictability and that means that every big match that Cena has, he is going to win.
I was just starting to get into the new story lines and the new entertainment value on Raw. I enjoyed the new title contenders and the new title matches. With Cena back, however, we go back to the last 2 yrs of Raw.
Let me tell you what I think the title scene will be on Raw for the next couple of months. Cena will win at No Way Out along with HHH. It will be Cena and HHH, once again, at Wrestlemania, but wait. Randy Orton get's a rematch clause. So Wrestlmania will dawn a triple threat match between John Cena, HHH, and Randy Orton. John Cena the winner of course.
HBK-aholic
Shawn Michaels ❤
Cena doesn't work as well as everyone seems to think though. He's supposed to be the companies biggest face, yet there are audiable boos going on.
Cena? Lose the championship match? I doubt it but I hope so, Orton deserves a longer reign and one where he can look better.
Well I think that's where the rumour of him not really being injured becomes involved. And anyway if he should have been out for that long I don't think it's wise to throw him into the championship position.
HE is boring. A great wrestler can sell us any gimmick and make us enjoy it. Cena can't do that as well as everyone thought it seems.
Yeah because a guy that puts up consistent 4 star matches is not entertaining
His 4 star matches aren't consistent. He has good matches at PPV's and a few on Raw, but other than that he's an average performer, but few people see that due to their blind love for him.
Isn't it at NWO now?
You call what he did earning it? LMAO. Before you were saying he didn't have to face that much good talent..
Anyway, yes everyone generally wins their returning match, but the returning match isn't usually in a Royal Rumble after doing nothing to earn it.
No he doesn't. The crowd is mixed. All the time. And he's a face! He shouldn't be getting chants of Cena sucks if he's that good.
Meh, that feud is over i believe, and it showed signs of continuing in the rumble. But do you want this type of match headlining the biggest ppv of em all? Wait why am i asking, it has Shawn Michaels in it, it must be gold
Are you going to deny that Shawn Michaels always has great matches at Wrestlemania? Very few people will ever say that, because even those that hate him know when he's out-performed everyone. It's not a perfect WM match, and it certainly wouldn't main event, but it was a good feud so I wouldn't complain if this is the way they went.
Is there any proof of this?
Becase you can't tell me? Cena is not needed that much. YEs he is a big part of the WWE, but there were times were the main person was all the WWE had, but now we have people who may not be carrying championship, but are still great at their job.
Yeah because a guy with no in ring ability is not capable of putting on consistent 4 star matches
LOL even other wrestlers such as Kurt Angle have said Cena isn't one of the best wrestlers. You honestly think the championship symbolises a lot anymore? Well it doesn't symbolise who the best wrestler is.
[/QUOTE]I have said this all ready, he is getting a full, let me repeat, a full crowd reaction, not many superstars can say that.[/QUOTE]
No, he isn't. The crowd are mixed, look at them. The only difference is, suddenly a lot of people have come to their senses about Cena. He shou;d be turned into a heel now.
but he still gets a reaction from the majority of the crowd.
then why not lose it and regain it? Orton doesnt deserve a longer run, he was made too look week throughout his title run
Cena will probably work a limited schedule so he can be fully healed when WM rolls around.
he is a great performer in todays WWE. His booking is pathetic, but that doesnt take away from Cena as a person, it makes his move set limited, but he still grasps and entertains the majority of the crowd.
they are consistent on a monthly PPV basis.
why give off good matches on free tv?
that is ridiculous, average performers are not on top of the business for the better part of two years. The blind hate for Cena is ridiculous. The man sells, he entertains, and he does a little more than that. Yep, average performers can get a good match out of a 7 ft+ monster who is immobile
...but it could result in a DQ, or it could be a triple threat match..
Yes he earned his title match, he won the rumble, therefore earning his title shot at WM..thats what happens when you win the RR. therefore he earned it
how he was the champ before he left. How do you want him to earn it? by going through every superstar and burying them in the process? I dont think so.
Mr McMahon knows that, he isnt dumb, but Mr McMahon also knows that it is a reaction from the majority of the fans, people pay to cheer him, and people pay to boo him.. no matter which way you look at it, they are paying to watch him
Take WZ and Ryan Clark for what they are worth. they can be accurate, and what not, but hey, cant be perfect...
http://wrestlezone.com/article.php?articleid=203519095
I believe it was last paragraph, and towards the bottom.
Who? For every Austin their was a Rock? For every HHH title reign their was the Rock, Austin, Angle, and so forth, and Hogan had, Andre, the Macho Man and many others
that is ridiculous, they are champs because they are on top of the biggest wrestling promotion in America. I also believe that interview was After Angle and the WWE had their falling out, so he could have been bitter, without ever showing any emotion.
He is getting a crowd reaction from the majority of the fans. Honestly, how many times do i have to say that? He gets a reaction from the fans, people pay to cheer, or boo, but no matter which way you look at it he is getting a reaction from almost every fan in attnedance.
Sly I agree with you 100%.. u make some excellent points for example JOHN CENA IS THE TOP DOG OF THE COMPANY!!! His matches arent the same and Cena has more moves than 5. Cena bashers really have to think of different things to bash him other than '5 moves of doom', 'holds wwe title 4 too long' and 'faked injury'. The scars he showed on Raw proved his injury was for real!
LIke Sly said... other great wrestlers have complamented Cena on his work. Obviously that proves that Cena can and HAS put on a great match. He is the top dog... not because Vince loves him but because he can wrestle, he has the look(body wise and facial) and he has passion for this business he respects so much.
Sly, Im a teenager myself and I dont think Cena only appeals to kids. Im a Cena fan and even IF he only appealed to 'KIDS', I would still be a Cena fan and nothing is going to change that.
The guy came back after less than FOUR MONTHS, when we were told he would be back from 6-8 months. Now thats what I call PASSION, whether you like him or hate him... you have to respect the guy.
The one thing I hate... is how Cena vs Orton is @ NWO and not Wrestlemania 24. That totally degrades the Royal Rumble especially coz we were told the winner GOES TO WM24. But thats a topic for a different forum....
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