[Official] John Cena Thread

[Slyfox696]

The women only like him cause they think hes handsome and the kids will like whoever vince tells them to like

So? What's the problem? Not that I agree with you, but who cares?

a show for WRESTLING FANS is being ruined by a fuckwit like cena because of it, that is our problem with john cena , how can you not get that?

Silly me. I did not realize that professional wrestling was real. I thought it was a medium of entertainment, in which the goal is to entertain people however they might do it, in order to make the greatest profit possible.

You seem like the person that would prefer watching collegiate wrestling. Because that is for REAL WRESTLING fans.

the guy has had the wwe title for a total of 24 months ie 2 fucking years!

Actually, it's been 21 out of 24 months.

and even at that it wouldnt be so bad if it was spread out but its been constant cena down our throats for almost two and half years , in that time there has only been one ppv where he wasnt wrstling for the wwe title,

Now see, if you are going to bash the guy, at least get your facts straight.

No Way Out 2007 - John Cena and Shawn Michaels vs. Batista and Undertaker
Armageddon 2006 - Batista and John Cena vs. Finlay and King Booker

There's two PPVs off the top of my head without even trying.


And, why wouldn't he be wrestling for the WWE title? He's the WWE champion. Non-title matches on PPV these days just don't work on a consistent basis.

but if you base champions on their mike skills then why have batista , lashley, mysterio etc. been champions? there is no way to get around the fact that cena is backed by mcmahon and thats is the ONLy reason that he has had a long title reign , he in no way shape or form deserved a single bit of it.

And, why do you think he is backed by Vince McMahon? Take a long moment to contemplate that.

 

[JasonMezza]

Regardless of how much i hate it, Cena makes money for the WWE. That is why he is at the top.
His belt, his dress sense, all of these are WWE's best selling products over the past two years thats why he is at the top, Aside from the DX reunion Cena makes more money for Vince than any other superstar at this time.

Also the reason Cena has had the title so long is because of RVD if he had not of got busted he would have been WWE champion well into the early part of 2007 without the Edge transitional crap. RVD was going to be the face of WWE and ECW BUT he blew it and Cena was given it.

 

[robwylde90]

So? What's the problem? Not that I agree with you, but who cares?


Silly me. I did not realize that professional wrestling was real. I thought it was a medium of entertainment, in which the goal is to entertain people however they might do it, in order to make the greatest profit possible.

You seem like the person that would prefer watching collegiate wrestling. Because that is for REAL WRESTLING fans.


Actually, it's been 21 out of 24 months.


Now see, if you are going to bash the guy, at least get your facts straight.

No Way Out 2007 - John Cena and Shawn Michaels vs. Batista and Undertaker
Armageddon 2006 - Batista and John Cena vs. Finlay and King Booker

There's two PPVs off the top of my head without even trying.


And, why wouldn't he be wrestling for the WWE title? He's the WWE champion. Non-title matches on PPV these days just don't work on a consistent basis.


And, why do you think he is backed by Vince McMahon? Take a long moment to contemplate that.

Hmm lets see, for starters its entertainment through wrestling for wrestling fans, obv people who dont like wrestling wont be entertained.

I didnt say 24 constant months , but if you add up all his title reigns he has had the wwe for a total of 2 years , a 10 month reign from march 2005 to january 2006, a 5 month reign from january 2006 to june 2006 and at least a 9 month reign from september 2006 to the present.

Ok let me rephrase , in the past 2 years there has only been 1 ppv in which there was a wwe title match and he wasnt in it , better?

My problem with that is that cena is either constantly defending or challenging for the wwe title and its boring as hell .

Hes backed by vince because he has the bodybuilder type body that vince loves , and with a thimble-full of mike skills on top. By god i really had to contemplate that for a long time didnt I?

 

[Slyfox696]

Hmm lets see, for starters its entertainment through wrestling for wrestling fans, obv people who dont like wrestling wont be entertained.

No, it's entertainment through live acting. It is a mimicry of wrestling. Do not confuse the two. If it was real wrestling, then it would not be scripted. And, John Cena entertains the hell out of most people, whether because they like him or don't. People still pay to watch him.

I didnt say 24 constant months , but if you add up all his title reigns he has had the wwe for a total of 2 years , a 10 month reign from march 2005 to january 2006, a 5 month reign from january 2006 to june 2006 and at least a 9 month reign from september 2006 to the present.

Which just proves how great he is. *shrugs* Maybe if there were some better wrestlers, or at least other wrestlers who wanted the belt, then he wouldn't be champion for so long.

Ok let me rephrase , in the past 2 years there has only been 1 ppv in which there was a wwe title match and he wasnt in it , better?

My problem with that is that cena is either constantly defending or challenging for the wwe title and its boring as hell .

Why is it boring as hell? I mean, HBK is on every single episode of Raw and is on every PPV, is that boring as hell as well? HBK was on TV as much as Cena was, and many times more so, so that must have bored you as well correct?

Hes backed by vince because he has the bodybuilder type body that vince loves , and with a thimble-full of mike skills on top. By god i really had to contemplate that for a long time didnt I?

I don't know if you did or not, but maybe you should have contemplated longer. Because you obviously did not come to the root of the REAL reason he's backed by Vince. I mean, there have been a ton of guys with a bodybuilder type body that have come and gone in the WWE. So, why is John Cena different?

Contemplate some more, and get back to me.

 

[robwylde90]

No, it's entertainment through live acting. It is a mimicry of wrestling. Do not confuse the two. If it was real wrestling, then it would not be scripted. And, John Cena entertains the hell out of most people, whether because they like him or don't. People still pay to watch him.


Which just proves how great he is. *shrugs* Maybe if there were some better wrestlers, or at least other wrestlers who wanted the belt, then he wouldn't be champion for so long.


Why is it boring as hell? I mean, HBK is on every single episode of Raw and is on every PPV, is that boring as hell as well? HBK was on TV as much as Cena was, and many times more so, so that must have bored you as well correct?


I don't know if you did or not, but maybe you should have contemplated longer. Because you obviously did not come to the root of the REAL reason he's backed by Vince. I mean, there have been a ton of guys with a bodybuilder type body that have come and gone in the WWE. So, why is John Cena different?

Contemplate some more, and get back to me.

Hmm lets see, what does WWE stand for? world WRESTLING entertainment , it is entertainment based on wrestling even if it is scripted, and really iv got to tell you , he doesn't "entertain the hell out of" the majority of people, maybe you've missed most of the past 2 years but in pretty much every city the WWE gooes to , at least half the crowd hate him. How can he entertain people who hate him exactly? The last time i checked he just annoyed the hell out of them.

So your telling me that having one champion for a ridiculous period of time doesnt get stale after a while? your telling me that the repetitive superman combacks dont bore people? mayeb you should try thinking that one over again buddy.

and finally i already alluded to what makes cena different , a small amount of promo ability, thats why vince has jumped on him like white on rice. so really are you telling us all that any bodybuilder type who has even slightest mike skills should be a world champion for an exponential amount of time? get back to me buddy I'm actually enjoying this lol cause you do have some alright points.

 

[goleafsgo23]

Hmm lets see, what does WWE stand for? world WRESTLING entertainment , it is entertainment based on wrestling even if it is scripted, and really iv got to tell you , he doesn't "entertain the hell out of" the majority of people, maybe you've missed most of the past 2 years but in pretty much every city the WWE gooes to , at least half the crowd hate him. How can he entertain people who hate him exactly? The last time i checked he just annoyed the hell out of them.

So your telling me that having one champion for a ridiculous period of time doesnt get stale after a while? your telling me that the repetitive superman combacks dont bore people? mayeb you should try thinking that one over again buddy.

and finally i already alluded to what makes cena different , a small amount of promo ability, thats why vince has jumped on him like white on rice. so really are you telling us all that any bodybuilder type who has even slightest mike skills should be a world champion for an exponential amount of time? get back to me buddy I'm actually enjoying this lol cause you do have some alright points.

To your first point, I am going to allude back to the fact that Cena's matches always have the atmosphere of sports rivalry, whether it would be negative or negative and positive. The fact that the fans are so passionate about having a change in champions, showing they don't like him, or for the others that do like him, there is always some kind of reaction towards him. Never will you hear: "Lets go _____" followed by "_____ Sucks!" when it isn't directed towards John Cena. And yes, the WWE does stand for World WRESTLING Entertainment, but it also does emphasize more on the Entertainment aspect. The WWE is more focused on the drama aspect of the storylines rather than the wrestling. Why do you think there are 4 (bad) matches on RAW in a 2 hour time span? (aired, not including dark matches). It's all about the storyline and build up for the upcoming pay-per-view. That's why if you noticed Cena getting beat up by Khali in the events leading before Judgement Day or One Night Stand, they WWE wanted the viewers to think that John Cena will not overcome the odds.

As for the long period that Cena has had the title, I will again allude to the fact that there is no one on the RAW roster who is main-event status YET. This is why there is a WWE draft on Monday. Simply there is no one for John Cena to switch the title to, and there is no one who is simply worthy yet in the WWE's eyes of imaging the company. My theory is that Mr. Kennedy is in that spotlight, but due to his injury, that may be a little postponed.

 

[Capt. Charisma]

i have a 6-pack, can do a sholdertakle, can wear a T-shirt and 3-quater lengths, do shit raps, do over the top interviews and say how I will never back down
can i be wwe champ?!

Slyfox why do you always have to be so arrogant, "Actually, it's been 21 out of 24 months." Now see, if you are going to bash the guy, at least get your facts straight."... etc etc.

You just sidestep the argument and come back with 'stats' which dont actualy disprove the guys argument, although I will say well done for possibly been the first person who says Cena isnt a shit wrestler/entertainer who doesnt site his main reason for this as his Win record, or the fact he is 'cool'. Seriously though stop trying sooo hard and wasting your time by trying to dig up stats or whatever to prove how 'good' Cena is or even merely that he isnt awful because he is fooking shocking, try finding a stat which says John Cena is a 100% good wrestler...

 

[ThaCandyMan]

Well I think Cena has impressive Mic skills. I think Cena would be better off as a heel. But god for bid if the WWE would upset all the young children and women i mean girls in genrel. John Cena reminds me of Vanilla Ice. I JUST CANT STAND JOHN CENA> Mr. Kennedy Needs to come to raw and take that tittle, Or at least bring Edge back to raw and send that punk Cena packing.

 

[kennyg9]

John Cena is going no where apparently most of you dont understand good business. Top Star = Top Show which means John Cena = RAW that is just plain smart. The wrestling aspect is as much as the entertainment aspect these days. And i dont care what anyone says, during a Cena match the crowd is the most alive. Not during a HBK, undertaker, edge, orton, kennedy, whoever you want to say , When John Cena is out there there is a buzz in the arena and he brings the entertainment aspect and his wrestiling is getting better. But answer me this if you were Vince and you ran the WWE and Cena was your #1 guy with selling and popularity and everything else would you honestly risk injury to him. I dont think so so get off the guys case cauuse he is being protected and its very obvious and the moves he does arent that bad and he is adding to his move set more now than the past. Just get off the guys case and let him be cause if you truely love wrestling and the WWE you should all be thankful for him cause wihtout him the WWE would be in a bad way with popularity and exposure.

 

[ThaCandyMan]

I agree to that Kennyg9, It's just that some changes have to be made! NOW! Somthing diffrent to RAW Somthing Diffrent for smackdown. I wouldnt mind seeing Cena on Smackdown, Thats when I like John Cena now hes just a corprate kiss #$$!

 

[Slyfox696]

i have a 6-pack, can do a sholdertakle, can wear a T-shirt and 3-quater lengths, do shit raps, do over the top interviews and say how I will never back down
can i be wwe champ?!

I don't know. Do you bring in millions of dollars a year to your company? Do thousands of fans flock to the arena to cheer or boo you? Are mainstream television shows asking you to participate in their talk show? If the answer is "no" to any and all of these, I'm going to go out on a limb and say your chances of being the WWE champ are not good.

Slyfox why do you always have to be so arrogant, "Actually, it's been 21 out of 24 months." Now see, if you are going to bash the guy, at least get your facts straight."... etc etc.

How is asking people to tell the truth and not make up fictitious "facts" being arrogant?

You just sidestep the argument and come back with 'stats' which dont actualy disprove the guys argument,

There has yet to be a point, that I have not addressed. Maybe not to your satisfaction, but I've addressed just about everything. If you feel there is a point, I have not addressed, please post it, and I will be happy to get back to you.

My 'stats', as you call them, are the reasons why John Cena is champion. The are indisputable facts, cited from WWE's corporate website itself. They are the reason that John Cena is champion.

although I will say well done for possibly been the first person who says Cena isnt a shit wrestler/entertainer who doesnt site his main reason for this as his Win record, or the fact he is 'cool'.

Thank you.

Seriously though stop trying sooo hard and wasting your time by trying to dig up stats or whatever to prove how 'good' Cena is or even merely that he isnt awful

The thing is, I don't have to try hard at all. I've been doing this over Cena for so long now, there is hardly a credible argument that I haven't seen. For example, I was told the other day he makes a poor champion because, among other reasons, "he's short". It is not difficult at all, and I love the debate. I love debating things with people, and there is never a shortage of debates on Cena.

try finding a stat which says John Cena is a 100% good wrestler...

You show me three universally accepted objective criteria on what makes a "100% good wrestler", and then we'll talk.

 

[iluvjc23]

Just because John Cena has original moves and not the same boring ass moves as teh other superstars does not make him a bad wrestler. i mean the FU cant really hurt someone that bad but the STFU is a good move. Im so sick of people dissing him because they know they will never be as good as cena. Cena faces every challenge that is put in front of him and he represents teh best form of a champion. I hope that he conutinues to face every challenge and if he loses the championship so what he still is one hell of a wrestler and if u cant face the facts than dont talk about him

 

[Shadowmancer]

Actually John Cena doesn't have an original move in his entire aresenal but that is beside the point. First off I put down I don't either Like him or Hate him, But I am pissed off at the amount of time he has spent as a straight laced Face, the last time they tried it in Rocky Maivia, you may know him as the Rock. The last time a Straight Laced two-dimensional character got over to the extent that Vinnie Mac wants Cena to get over is Hulk Hogan. While I will say that Cena is todays Hulk Hogan in terms of being on top, Im not meaning Backstage as the only negative thing I have heard about Cena is the Ron Killings thing. But that is different. Slyfox you can't deny that Cena's character is just Two-dimensional, the stuff he did as a Heel when he was on Smackdown ain't there anymore, two-dimensional character= boring, that now that I think about it is my main problem with Cena. When he has the belt he becomes 2-Dimensional. This is why if we have to have Cena in the Main Event have him chasing, I found his stuff when he was without the belt to be far more entertaining then when he has the belt. There is more depth to his character. That is why for the most part Heel Champs work better, as their characters have to be more complex. I still don't like Cena's lack of ability in move selection during a match especially the end, but that is cause it got stale. If he stopped it for a few months people would lighten up on that front. Personally I think there should be a heel turn by Cena, which would help emmensly (Sp?) in actually making him worthy of being Champ. Not in terms of Merchandise sales but it would be more interesting than the superman routine, It would also show he has more to his Identity with the belt. This is just thinking about it right now, but this won't happen because it would impact so heavily on Merchandise sales (His stuff is the majority of WWEs Merch) that they won't risk it. That is a fact because you will get mothers of Children going "Hes the bad guy so you won't get any of his stuff" This is just true of what the parents would do, It is pretty much based off the Idea of raising your children in the Good way.

 

[Uncle Sam]

Face facts? What, you mean face the facts that John Cena is just so ahead of his time we just can't percieve his awesomeness? Don't make me laugh, Jeff freakin' Hardy has a more innovative moveset than Cena and he's nothing more than a spot monkey. There's also nothing original about the F-U, it's just a Fireman's Carry Powerslam, nothing special. Same goes for the WTFU (or, as some choose to call it, the STFU), which is merely a Stepover Toehold Sleeper. I have to admit that the STFU is a rather fitting move, as he's rather skilled at putting me to sleep.

OK, Cena draws. Or maybe he doesn't, who the hell knows? He hasn't moved out of the same goddamn position long enough for people to see how it affected the company. I'll admit this much, Cena has big name recognition and if you put his name up in lights you'll definitely get much more attention than if you advertised, oh, let's say, Nigel McGuinness.

Let's stop sidestepping what is obvious to any real wrestling fan with half a braincell, shall we? Cena sucks. I hate to sound so simple, but that's the most basic form I could put my argument in - Cena sucks. Cena marks that are afraid to watch any wrestling outside of the Raw main event may be oblivious to this, but that's the blatant truth. He's mediocre in every single aspect. All he does is, as many know, the "same old shit". It is boring. Jesus, I get more excited watching an Eric Young promo than I do watching Cena in a whole match. Gee, I wonder which insurmountable odds he'll overcome next? Perhaps we'll see him make a comeback of sorts. I'm so excited I think I've wet my pants. It's time people stopped sidestepping the issue with stats and saying, "Oh, but he can work the mic well" (no, he can't) or, "But he draws, doesn't he?" (yes, but I'm sure others could draw even more, given the chance".

The facts are - at risk of sounding incredibly simple - Cena sucks.

 

[Slyfox696]

Actually John Cena doesn't have an original move in his entire aresenal but that is beside the point. First off I put down I don't either Like him or Hate him, But I am pissed off at the amount of time he has spent as a straight laced Face, the last time they tried it in Rocky Maivia, you may know him as the Rock. The last time a Straight Laced two-dimensional character got over to the extent that Vinnie Mac wants Cena to get over is Hulk Hogan. While I will say that Cena is todays Hulk Hogan in terms of being on top, Im not meaning Backstage as the only negative thing I have heard about Cena is the Ron Killings thing. But that is different. Slyfox you can't deny that Cena's character is just Two-dimensional, the stuff he did as a Heel when he was on Smackdown ain't there anymore, two-dimensional character= boring, that now that I think about it is my main problem with Cena. When he has the belt he becomes 2-Dimensional. This is why if we have to have Cena in the Main Event have him chasing, I found his stuff when he was without the belt to be far more entertaining then when he has the belt. There is more depth to his character. That is why for the most part Heel Champs work better, as their characters have to be more complex. I still don't like Cena's lack of ability in move selection during a match especially the end, but that is cause it got stale. If he stopped it for a few months people would lighten up on that front. Personally I think there should be a heel turn by Cena, which would help emmensly (Sp?) in actually making him worthy of being Champ. Not in terms of Merchandise sales but it would be more interesting than the superman routine, It would also show he has more to his Identity with the belt. This is just thinking about it right now, but this won't happen because it would impact so heavily on Merchandise sales (His stuff is the majority of WWEs Merch) that they won't risk it. That is a fact because you will get mothers of Children going "Hes the bad guy so you won't get any of his stuff" This is just true of what the parents would do, It is pretty much based off the Idea of raising your children in the Good way.

Well, you know, I can live with that criticism of Cena. It doesn't bother me, and I enjoy the man, but I can at least understand that kind of criticism as opposed to others which I feel are less than truthful.

I enjoy the Cena character. Unlike many people apparently, I enjoy watching the embodiment of good defeat the forces of evil. I like watching the good guy, the role model, the American icon. Just like it never gets stale for movie-goers, it never gets stale for me.

Personal differences there.

Same goes for the WTFU (or, as some choose to call it, the STFU), which is merely a Stepover Toehold Sleeper. I have to admit that the STFU is a rather fitting move, as he's rather skilled at putting me to sleep.

I'm not really sure if you were trying to be funny there, or you just have the ability of a 2 year old to avoid sleep. Because if a move makes you fall asleep in 10 seconds, then something has to be a little off.

OK, Cena draws. Or maybe he doesn't, who the hell knows?

The WWE? *shrugs*

Cena sucks. I hate to sound so simple, but that's the most basic form I could put my argument in - Cena sucks.

Why do you feel so?

Cena marks that are afraid to watch any wrestling outside of the Raw main event may be oblivious to this, but that's the blatant truth.

I could be wrong, but I have this nagging suspicion I've probably seen more wrestling in my lifetime than you have.

All he does is, as many know, the "same old shit".

So does Ric Flair, RVD, HBK and a host of others. They must suck too correct?

It's time people stopped sidestepping the issue with stats and saying, "Oh, but he can work the mic well" (no, he can't) or, "But he draws, doesn't he?" (yes, but I'm sure others could draw even more, given the chance".

You are wrong. Unlike some subjective criteria as to what makes a good in-ring performer, facts such as drawing and moneymaking determine who is on top, and who is champion. This goes for any promotion in the history of wrestling. Promotions put the guys who are going to draw the best and are going to make the most money at the top of the card.

People need to realize that subjective criteria as "good worker" doesn't determine whether they are on top or not. It never has, and never will. No promotion in the world goes by the philosophy. They never have and never will. Thus, my stats are completely relevant as to why he should remain on top.

 

[Uncle Sam]

I'm not really sure if you were trying to be funny there, or you just have the ability of a 2 year old to avoid sleep. Because if a move makes you fall asleep in 10 seconds, then something has to be a little off.

Yes, I was "trying to be funny". I take it I didn't succeed then, LOL.

The WWE? *shrugs*

I don't get where you're coming from. My point was - or should've been, before I got a little distracted - that I'm sure there must be people on the roster that can draw better than him. I may be wrong, but I'm sure Edge, Triple H and Shawn Michaels must be up there.

Why do you feel so?

I see my point of "Cena sucks" was a little invalid without proper reasons being provided. I'll try to set that right then. Cena, for me and many others I have conversed with, was already flat when he was introduced into the main roster with his rapper gimmick. Ironically, I think it won Gimmick of the Year. For me, he was already overly characterised before his relatively mediocre wrestling skills became apparent.

I could be wrong, but I have this nagging suspicion I've probably seen more wrestling in my lifetime than you have.

Perhaps, but I wasn't referring to you when I made the comment about "Raw main event fans". I was referring to people such as iluvjc23. I didn't mean any offence by it, it's just how he/she came across with his/her post. And also how many others have come across to me.

So does Ric Flair, RVD, HBK and a host of others. They must suck too correct?

Well, no. Shawn Michaels consistently puts on good matches, seeing as his "same old shit" was pretty entertaining to start with and still entertains fans after all these years, Cena's "SOS" fails to do this. Besides, when it comes to big matches, HBK will usually pull something new out of the bag. And, if it's not new, it's still pretty spectacular. RVD, well, the same goes for HBK. Ric Flair... he does suck, to a certain degree. I was never really a fan of his. Still, he's not shoved down our throats nearly as consistently as Cena, is he? No-one is.

You are wrong. Unlike some subjective criteria as to what makes a good in-ring performer, facts such as drawing and moneymaking determine who is on top, and who is champion. This goes for any promotion in the history of wrestling. Promotions put the guys who are going to draw the best and are going to make the most money at the top of the card.

People need to realize that subjective criteria as "good worker" doesn't determine whether they are on top or not. It never has, and never will. No promotion in the world goes by the philosophy. They never have and never will. Thus, my stats are completely relevant as to why he should remain on top.

Hmmm, this is where you might have trapped me. I agree that the man who draws most will usually end up on top, I don't think I ever disputed that. My point was, or was trying to be, Cena draws because he is on top, not vice versa. I have a sneaking suspicion that if you put, say Triple H or Shawn Michaels on top, they'd draw more than Cena. If you're WWE Champion, you're bound to draw, it's inevitable. Of course, other superstars who aren't WWE Champion and haven't been pushed so ridiculously hard and don't have such a ridiculous amount of exposure won't draw as much. It's just logical.

 

[The Champ]

Wow, it seems that whatever forum I may visit, Slyfox696 is always right there defending Cena.

Yes, I was "trying to be funny". I take it I didn't succeed then, LOL.

No, you didn't.

I don't get where you're coming from. My point was - or should've been, before I got a little distracted - that I'm sure there must be people on the roster that can draw better than him. I may be wrong, but I'm sure Edge, Triple H and Shawn Michaels must be up there.

None of those guys are as over with female fans and kids as Cena is. Most aren't as over with male fans as Cena, either. Plus, Edge is already the champion of another brand, so he really shouldn't be in this discussion.

I see my point of "Cena sucks" was a little invalid without proper reasons being provided. I'll try to set that right then. Cena, for me and many others I have conversed with, was already flat when he was introduced into the main roster with his rapper gimmick. Ironically, I think it won Gimmick of the Year. For me, he was already overly characterised before his relatively mediocre wrestling skills became apparent.

What relatively mediocre wrestling skills? Did you even watch his match on Raw against HBK? Or his LMS match with Umaga? Watch those two matches and then tell me that his wrestling skills are mediocre. If you want me to name more, I will.

Well, no. Shawn Michaels consistently puts on good matches, seeing as his "same old shit" was pretty entertaining to start with and still entertains fans after all these years, Cena's "SOS" fails to do this. Besides, when it comes to big matches, HBK will usually pull something new out of the bag. And, if it's not new, it's still pretty spectacular. RVD, well, the same goes for HBK. Ric Flair... he does suck, to a certain degree. I was never really a fan of his. Still, he's not shoved down our throats nearly as consistently as Cena, is he? No-one is.

RVD is a spot monkey. I enjoy his matches, but he relies mostly on high-risk spots to make them exciting. As for HBK, do you see him carrying Umaga to classic matches? Do you see him carrying Khali to decent matches? I didn't think so.

Hmmm, this is where you might have trapped me. I agree that the man who draws most will usually end up on top, I don't think I ever disputed that. My point was, or was trying to be, Cena draws because he is on top, not vice versa. I have a sneaking suspicion that if you put, say Triple H or Shawn Michaels on top, they'd draw more than Cena. If you're WWE Champion, you're bound to draw, it's inevitable. Of course, other superstars who aren't WWE Champion and haven't been pushed so ridiculously hard and don't have such a ridiculous amount of exposure won't draw as much. It's just logical.

Like I said above, those guys don't draw as much as Cena. When it's all said and done, Cena will be remembered in the class with Rocky, Austin, and Hogan as the most successful and popular wrestlers of all time.

 

[hbk&triple h]

Most aren't as over with male fans as Cena, either.

Some thing must be wrong with this statement.Oh I know its the fact that its wrong.For example, Summerslam 06.He was facing Edge in his hometown and the crowd still cheered for Edge.Wrestlemania 22.You tell me that Cena had more of a fanbase there than he did Triple H.I dont think so.Wrestlemania 23.A lot of people cheered for HbK.And when Cena won people started leaving immediately.I was there.And the whole way out all you heard was people bitching about how he won again.

What relatively mediocre wrestling skills? Did you even watch his match on Raw against HBK? Or his LMS match with Umaga? Watch those two matches and then tell me that his wrestling skills are mediocre. If you want me to name more, I will.

Sorry to burst your bubble but Shawn carried him in that match.And his LMS match was only good probably because the fact that this match did have a stipulation to it.

RVD is a spot monkey. I enjoy his matches, but he relies mostly on high-risk spots to make them exciting. As for HBK, do you see him carrying Umaga to classic matches? Do you see him carrying Khali to decent matches? I didn't think so.

Shawn Michales can have a good match with Umaga anyday.If you take away any of the stipulations Cena will never have a good match with Umaga.Ever.Cena did not have a decent match with Khali.Judgement Day blew.And One Night Stand was barely credible thanks to the fact of the stipulation.

Like I said above, those guys don't draw as much as Cena. When it's all said and done, Cena will be remembered in the class with Rocky, Austin, and Hogan as the most successful and popular wrestlers of all time.

Some thing must be wrong with this statement.Oh I know its the fact that its wrong.For example, Summerslam 06.He was facing Edge in his hometown and the crowd still cheered for Edge.Wrestlemania 22.You tell me that Cena had more of a fanbase there than he did Triple H.I dont think so.Wrestlemania 23.A lot of people cheered for HbK.And when Cena won people started leaving immediately.I was there.And the whole way out all you heard was people bitching about how he won again.

Sorry to burst your bubble but Shawn carried him in that match.And his LMS match was only good probably because the fact that this match did have a stipulation to it.

Shawn Michales can have a good match with Umaga anyday.If you take away any of the stipulations Cena will never have a good match with Umaga.Ever.Cena did not have a decent match with Khali.Judgement Day blew.And One Night Stand was barely credible thanks to the fact of the stipulation.

Cena is never going to be considered great because for one plain fact.He isnt great.He never has and never will be.Hogan put WWE on the map.Cena hasn't done anything like that.Rock has given us amazing and hilarious promos and has given us some of the greatest rivalries we have ever seen.Tell me one good Cena rivalry.Austin had his own damn Era and is twice as much over with the fans than Cena.As Cena ever had his own Era.I dont think so.

 

[The Champ]

Cena is never going to be considered great because for one plain fact.He isnt great.He never has and never will be.

Go tell that to all the people who buy his merchandise and cheer for him every week.

Hogan put WWE on the map.Cena hasn't done anything like that.

How the fuck can Cena put WWE on the map when they're already the biggest wrestling federation in the world?

Rock has given us amazing and hilarious promos

Promos weren't as scripted when Rocky was around.

and has given us some of the greatest rivalries we have ever seen.Tell me one good Cena rivalry.

Good Cena rivalries:

-Cena vs. Taker
-Cena vs. Angle
-Cena vs. HHH
-Cena vs. Jericho
-Cena vs. Edge
-Cena vs. HBK

Austin had his own damn Era and is twice as much over with the fans than Cena.As Cena ever had his own Era.I dont think so.

Uh, this is Cena's era right now. And I said that Cena would be in that class when it's all said and done. I never said that he was there yet.

 

[hbk&triple h]

Go tell that to all the people who buy his merchandise and cheer for him every week.

How the fuck can Cena put WWE on the map when they're already the biggest wrestling federation in the world?

Promos weren't as scripted when Rocky was around.

Good Cena rivalries:

-Cena vs. Taker
-Cena vs. Angle
-Cena vs. HHH
-Cena vs. Jericho
-Cena vs. Edge
-Cena vs. HBK

Uh, this is Cena's era right now. And I said that Cena would be in that class when it's all said and done. I never said that he was there yet.

Just because he can sell merchandise doesn't make him great.Any champion can sell merchandise.Cena is just over with the little kids who have their parents buy them the damn thing.

I was directing the whole Hogan thing because in the end you said that he will be in the same class as them.Hogan put WWE where they are so how can Cena be in that same class.

No I think the fact is that the Rock went out there and did his thing.Cena goes out there and says the same damn thing every week.

The only one of that rivalry that I think was good was Taker because it had a good storyline and an OK matchup.

 

[The Champ]

Some thing must be wrong with this statement.Oh I know its the fact that its wrong.For example, Summerslam 06.He was facing Edge in his hometown and the crowd still cheered for Edge.Wrestlemania 22.You tell me that Cena had more of a fanbase there than he did Triple H.I dont think so.Wrestlemania 23.A lot of people cheered for HbK.And when Cena won people started leaving immediately.I was there.And the whole way out all you heard was people bitching about how he won again.

You're naming the few examples that Cena has been booed. Most of the time, he gets cheered like crazy. And whether he gets cheered or booed, he always gets a bigger reaction than anybody else on the roster.

Sorry to burst your bubble but Shawn carried him in that match.And his LMS match was only good probably because the fact that this match did have a stipulation to it.

No, he didn't. Cena did his part to make that match great. It wasn't all HBK. And even with a stipulation, it takes a lot to carry Umaga to a match like that.

Shawn Michales can have a good match with Umaga anyday.

But has he? I didn't think so.

If you take away any of the stipulations Cena will never have a good match with Umaga.Ever.

His match at NYR against Umaga was decent.

Cena did not have a decent match with Khali.Judgement Day blew.And One Night Stand was barely credible thanks to the fact of the stipulation.

Judgment Day was much better than most people expected. And, like with Umaga, it takes a lot to get a good match out of Khali even with a stipulation.

Just because he can sell merchandise doesn't make him great.Any champion can sell merchandise.Cena is just over with the little kids who have their parents buy them the damn thing.

How much merchandise has Lashley sold? Any? Does he even have more than one t-shirt?

I was directing the whole Hogan thing because in the end you said that he will be in the same class as them.Hogan put WWE where they are so how can Cena be in that same class.

By becoming as popular as Hogan was. Which he may achieve eventually.

No I think the fact is that the Rock went out there and did his thing.Cena goes out there and says the same damn thing every week.

Like I said, WWE allowed Rocky to go out there and do his thing. They don't give Cena the same freedom that Rocky had.

The only one of that rivalry that I think was good was Taker because it had a good storyline and an OK matchup.

You didn't think that Cena's debut match against Angle was any good? You didn't think that the Rock vs. Rap angle with Jericho was good? You didn't think that his drawn-out feud with Edge had many good matches in it? Come on now.

 

[X]

Wow, it seems that whatever forum I may visit, Slyfox696 is always right there defending Cena.

No, you didn't.

None of those guys are as over with female fans and kids as Cena is. Most aren't as over with male fans as Cena, either. Plus, Edge is already the champion of another brand, so he really shouldn't be in this discussion.

What relatively mediocre wrestling skills? Did you even watch his match on Raw against HBK? Or his LMS match with Umaga? Watch those two matches and then tell me that his wrestling skills are mediocre. If you want me to name more, I will.

RVD is a spot monkey. I enjoy his matches, but he relies mostly on high-risk spots to make them exciting. As for HBK, do you see him carrying Umaga to classic matches? Do you see him carrying Khali to decent matches? I didn't think so.

Like I said above, those guys don't draw as much as Cena. When it's all said and done, Cena will be remembered in the class with Rocky, Austin, and Hogan as the most successful and popular wrestlers of all time.

I don't think I could ever possibly disagree more with a poster, on anything, ever.

First off, I will guarantee that Edge is much popular with the male base, as is probably any other wrestler, then Cena is. With the little kids and the moms, sure, yep, he's number one. Just like Hogan was number one with every kid holding up a yellow foam finger and their mom schilling out money for the Hulkamania T-Shirts. Cena is probably one of if not the most unpopular wrestler with the male base of 16-30. Ever.

Next, you'll have to excuse me, as I almost shit myself in laughter upon reading that you claim Cena vs. Umaga is a "classic" match. Really? That's a classic match? What demented fantasy world do you live in where Umaga vs. John Cena is considered a classic? That match was entertaining for one and only one factor and that is the hardcore aspect, something that has been becoming less and less frequent in the WWE. Even when comparing it to other gimmick matches, its absolute drivel. If that is what the fans of today or anyone considers a classic match, then I'll just take my old NWA tapes and go bury myself in the back with them.

The laughter continued even louder as I read that you deemed Khali-Cena as anything other then complete and utter shit. Those two matches are honestly the two worst matches in the history of wrestling. I'm not even kidding you. Seriously, think of any match, ever, and it's better. Gerald Brisco vs. Pat Patterson in an Evening Gown match you say? Better then Khali-Cena. Hogan vs. Warrior II at HH98 you say? Twenty times better then Khali-Cena. Whats that? David Flair vs. Kimberly Paige? Why that was a MOTR five star classic compared to Cena-Khali!

And finally you claim that Cena will be as big a name as Austin, Rock, or Hogan. Simply laughable. Tell me one person who doesn't watch wrestling who has any fucking clue who John Cena is, meanwhile my sister who has never watched wrestling in her life knows who Rock, Hogan and even Austin are. Further more---just no. WWE's ratings are not nearly high enough nor is the company nearly mainstream enough at the moment for any of it's top starts to be considered transcendent.

John Cena simply put in my opinion is the Anti-Christ of quality wrestling.

 

[hbk&triple h]

You're naming the few examples that Cena has been booed. Most of the time, he gets cheered like crazy. And whether he gets cheered or booed, he always gets a bigger reaction than anybody else on the roster.

No, he didn't. Cena did his part to make that match great. It wasn't all HBK. And even with a stipulation, it takes a lot to carry Umaga to a match like that.

But has he? I didn't think so.

His match at NYR against Umaga was decent.

Judgment Day was much better than most people expected. And, like with Umaga, it takes a lot to get a good match out of Khali even with a stipulation.

He might have gotten cheered more than anybody else but by Summerslam 2005 people were already turning on Cena.He is only cheered like crazy when he is facing the biggest monster heel on the roster.If its anyone else they don't cheer for Cena much.

He might have added a little bit to the match but that was the first time we saw a match like that from Cena.Happened to be Shawn, one of the best people at carrying other, being Cenas opponent.Ironic.

He hasnt because he has never really had a match with Umaga.The two matches he had where with interference from Vince McMahon so we couldn't really get what we wanted out of the match.Trust me Shawn can do amazing things in a match with umaga.

From my point of view the match at New Year Revolution was not good.But if you liked it I guess its just your opinion on the match.

The match at judgement day was still horrible.Most people knew it was going to be bad.Umaga is actually a great worker for his size.

 

[The Champ]

I don't think I could ever possibly disagree more with a poster, on anything, ever.

First off, I will guarantee that Edge is much popular with the male base, as is probably any other wrestler, then Cena is. With the little kids and the moms, sure, yep, he's number one. Just like Hogan was number one with every kid holding up a yellow foam finger and their mom schilling out money for the Hulkamania T-Shirts. Cena is probably one of if not the most unpopular wrestler with the male base of 16-30. Ever.

Next, you'll have to excuse me, as I almost shit myself in laughter upon reading that you claim Cena vs. Umaga is a "classic" match. Really? That's a classic match? What demented fantasy world do you live in where Umaga vs. John Cena is considered a classic? That match was entertaining for one and only one factor and that is the hardcore aspect, something that has been becoming less and less frequent in the WWE. Even when comparing it to other gimmick matches, its absolute drivel. If that is what the fans of today or anyone considers a classic match, then I'll just take my old NWA tapes and go bury myself in the back with them.

The laughter continued even louder as I read that you deemed Khali-Cena as anything other then complete and utter shit. Those two matches are honestly the two worst matches in the history of wrestling. I'm not even kidding you. Seriously, think of any match, ever, and it's better. Gerald Brisco vs. Pat Patterson in an Evening Gown match you say? Better then Khali-Cena. Hogan vs. Warrior II at HH98 you say? Twenty times better then Khali-Cena. Whats that? David Flair vs. Kimberly Paige? Why that was a MOTR five star classic compared to Cena-Khali!

And finally you claim that Cena will be as big a name as Austin, Rock, or Hogan. Simply laughable. Tell me one person who doesn't watch wrestling who has any fucking clue who John Cena is, meanwhile my sister who has never watched wrestling in her life knows who Rock, Hogan and even Austin are. Further more---just no. WWE's ratings are not nearly high enough nor is the company nearly mainstream enough at the moment for any of it's top starts to be considered transcendent.

John Cena simply put in my opinion is the Anti-Christ of quality wrestling.

I can't take your post seriously if you claim that those matches are anywhere close to Cena-Khali. And most fans thought that Cena/Umaga was a great match, myself included. Was it a five star classic? No. But it was an extremely entertaining and fun match that many people enjoyed.

And I'm not fooled by your "expand on your posts" bullshit. I know that the only reason that you warned me for this post is because you disagree.

 

[hbk&triple h]

I don't think I could ever possibly disagree more with a poster, on anything, ever.

First off, I will guarantee that Edge is much popular with the male base, as is probably any other wrestler, then Cena is. With the little kids and the moms, sure, yep, he's number one. Just like Hogan was number one with every kid holding up a yellow foam finger and their mom schilling out money for the Hulkamania T-Shirts. Cena is probably one of if not the most unpopular wrestler with the male base of 16-30. Ever.

Next, you'll have to excuse me, as I almost shit myself in laughter upon reading that you claim Cena vs. Umaga is a "classic" match. Really? That's a classic match? What demented fantasy world do you live in where Umaga vs. John Cena is considered a classic? That match was entertaining for one and only one factor and that is the hardcore aspect, something that has been becoming less and less frequent in the WWE. Even when comparing it to other gimmick matches, its absolute drivel. If that is what the fans of today or anyone considers a classic match, then I'll just take my old NWA tapes and go bury myself in the back with them.

The laughter continued even louder as I read that you deemed Khali-Cena as anything other then complete and utter shit. Those two matches are honestly the two worst matches in the history of wrestling. I'm not even kidding you. Seriously, think of any match, ever, and it's better. Gerald Brisco vs. Pat Patterson in an Evening Gown match you say? Better then Khali-Cena. Hogan vs. Warrior II at HH98 you say? Twenty times better then Khali-Cena. Whats that? David Flair vs. Kimberly Paige? Why that was a MOTR five star classic compared to Cena-Khali!

And finally you claim that Cena will be as big a name as Austin, Rock, or Hogan. Simply laughable. Tell me one person who doesn't watch wrestling who has any fucking clue who John Cena is, meanwhile my sister who has never watched wrestling in her life knows who Rock, Hogan and even Austin are. Further more---just no. WWE's ratings are not nearly high enough nor is the company nearly mainstream enough at the moment for any of it's top starts to be considered transcendent.

John Cena simply put in my opinion is the Anti-Christ of quality wrestling.

Thank you X.Me and The Champ have been arguing this for a little bit.

The Champ to me you kind of sound like one of those 12 year old kids obsessed with Cena.

Hey those matches are somewhat more decent than Khali and Cena.