[Official] John Cena Thread

[X]

I fell asleep in the middle of the Cena and HBK match to be honest. Not so much because of the match boring me or anything, I was just beat and tired as hell. Anybody got a link to this match if its been uploaded on any of the video sites yet? I'd like to check it out...oh wait I could always check out the replay in badly dubbed Spanish on the Spanish channel...

From what I saw, it was pretty decent, I just couldn't believe they stretched it out as long as they did. They went the full hour? Damn. That right there I will give Cena a rep for.

 

[figure4]

^^What was that? You, xfearbefore, not bashing my boy John Cena? Wow, I'm shocked. You know I had to tease you about that.

 

[SiciliazMan85]

i even have to admit that Cena did pretty good, but i will add, it was just the sleepers and headlocks that made him look good, lol (to the Cena fans) anyways, as it ended the week before WM 23 HBK got the upperhand on Cena only for Cena to win at WM 23. if history repeats itself, which it really doesnt fail to do with Mr. McMahon, once again HBK got the upperhand the week before Backlash, so more than likely Cena's gonna take it at Backlash, unless Edge or Orton take it...if you read HBK's lips at the end of the match, he grabs Cena's title and says (talking about the WWE Championship) "I dont need it, I just proved a point." so that pretty much sums it up...HBK probably wont be winning the title.

 

[wrestling247]

its a shame they dont have cena doing these kind of matches more ofter because i think he proved that he can really hold his own but it does take two to tango. If you think about it cena has had great matches with edge and hbk whenever it was cena v edge i was looking forward to it because i found that the really clicked in the ring and made everything look great. The same as with hbk they have had great matches like at mania and very possibly this years Match of the year with their one hour long match last night. If cena droped the baby face gimmick and was a semi heel i think he would get a better reaction from the fans.

 

[watchingandwaiting]

It was only the sleepers and the headlocks? Really? Personally, I thought there was a little more to the match than just that. A little bit of ring psychology..a few new/newish moves...good execution...

I think this match showed that even though a lot of Cena's matches have been formulaic and light on wrestling, Cena still does have the potential to put on a great match under the right circumstances. Maybe, if he's given the chance in terms of his booking, he might develop into someone who can give a match the quality of last night's on occasion. I don't think he'll ever be the Shawn Michaels/Chris Benoit/etc type who can bring someone else to that level, but I do believe that he can raise his game when paired with the right person.

 

[Prax]

Well that's the thing, he doesn't have the technical skills of the wrestlers Watching mentioned, but that shouldn't prevent him from becoming a big name in the business... a lot of guys who made it to the top didn't have the in-ring skills that others did necessarily, but they made it to the top because of other reasons... mainly because they could draw.

And Cena can draw, he's proven that. He won't bring WWE to the level that Austin or Hogan brought it to, but he hasn't really driven away any large amount of fans (despite the overwhelming negative response to his push). You guys have to admit, he creates controversy and he causes a stir among us, he causes us to talk and discuss WWE.

Like Eric Bischoff said... Controversy Creates Cash.

And like Vince McMahon always says... no publicity is bad publicity.

And Cena does all those things. Personally, I'm never going to stop watching WWE because I hate one specific wrestler, that's silly, even if he is in the main event. The reason why WWE would ever start losing it's viewers is because the show in general is beginning to lack substance and entertainment value in a lot of places (and that's the case right now... something that can't be attributed to Cena in any wya, I don't think).

I'll leave you with a question: If the IWC existed when Hogan was at the top, don't you think there would be this kind of negative reaction to him, just like there is for Cena? I actually think there would be. In fact I think it would be exactly the same thing...

 

[OverniteCelebrityLM]

Anyone know what the song was playing during the Cena-Michaels video package from Raw on Monday night was? Or where I could find that video? I can't find the thread I started that was asking the question so I don't know if it was ever answered. If the thread got deleted, it'd be nice to know why.

 

[Prax]

It was probably either merged with the ask a question thread, as that's where it belongs... if it was deleted someone might've already asked the question, but I can't tell you for sure.

I have no idea what the song was. I wasn't even paying attention to it... what kind of song was it?

 

[OverniteCelebrityLM]

It was a slow guitar instrumental. Hopefully WWE will post it sometime on there site. It was a great video no matter what song was used.

 

[Prax]

Yeah, now I remember, I looked over the tape. Yeah it was a great way to get the feud over a little more wasn't it... and follow that with a 45 minute match I don't think anyone expected.

And people say Cena sucks... pfft! He got overnitecelebrity excited! lol

 

[Downward Spiral]

I think with the hour-long main event on Raw, much of it was just stop and start wrestling that never really got off the ground until the end of it. To me it was the same old stuff we see from Cena with a little more variety, but only a little. The restholds absolutely killed the quality this match could have had and that's what is stopping Cena from getting respect from diehards. If Cena can't have a match that doesn't resort him to stopping and resting or putting headlock after headlock after headlock on, he's not going to impress anyone.

This was just a drawn out and repeated same-old-shit match from my view and the few spots they had did little to stop the boredom factor from creeping in. The false finishes were just overused time after time and I got sick of seeing the FU attempted and countered and the Sweet Chin Music countered. These false finishes are good if they are used sparingly and are made different in each one. It's just a lack of creativity in the match there. Shawn Michaels carried Cena for most of this match and really, for the first 10 minutes, nothing at all gave the viewer something to bite into. Sure, Cena can continue saving the 'best' for last in his matches but the problem is, he just gets too predictable in the start, when the critical period of telling whether the match is going to be good or a dud happens.

I would like to find what moves Cena supposedly showed in this match that makes people believe that he is actually learning. In fact, one review from a Cena mark said that after Cena used the bearhug, that "Wow, if this isn't showing that Cena knows way more moves than people give him credit for, they must be morons' and I almost laugh. If ANYONE believes that a move like a bearhug constitutes a compliment on a wrestlers 'vast' moveset, that person needs to have a short stay with a qualified person who actually has some form of grey matter in the space that dust floats around in that persons head.

The match was hardly a showing that Cena is improving or that Cena can wrestle a decent match because it was just a prolonged Cena-standard match that had a few exciting aspects to it but was otherwise just a dull rest-fest. Michaels is getting old, and too old in some people's view, but I've got to say that he performed far better than Cena in that match and his selling compared to Cena's was the equivalent of a man being tortured to a man being attacked by a speck of dust. I don't think the match was that well worked and commercials haunted it, as well as Cena's lack of selling and repeated moveset. I haven't changed 1 bit on my stance with Cena because an hour long match doesn't make a good match because while it may look good for someone who just sees the hour long mark, what counts is how the match was performed and Cena was just unable to carry on a match for that long and it showed. Yeah, they are bound to need restholds in a match that long, but Cena pulled about 100 out of his hat in the first 20 minutes, after repeated drop toeholds that we can see in any ordinary match. I give him credit for the ending though, but I just can't commend the whole match.

Cena lost though in this match and for once, it was clean and I hope the WWE see that they can have him lose a match without losing his credibility, and they also weakened the FU's credibility. From my recollection, I only remember HHH and Michaels kicking out of the FU, although someone like the Big Show and Umaga could have as well, and it's this kicking out that will add interest in a match. But like I've said, learning moves doesn't help Cena's credibility, and I didn't even see many 'new' moves that were decent anyway, so that's why I don't think that match warranted much praise for Cena. Yeah it was an hour long match, but it was just too slow for my taste, but I was glad to see Cena lose for once as that needs to happen for him.

 

[figure4]

Downward Spiral, shut the hell up. That was a very good match on Monday night. Unless you got two cruiserweights, all 40-plus minute matches are moderate-to-slow-paced. Go watch 10 40-plus minute matches and give me one that doesn't apply a lot of restholds. Please, enlighten me.

That's what's wrong with the business these days anyway, instead of the fans just shutting up and enjoying and appreciating the fact that two guys are in the ring pouring their hearts out for damn-near an hour, we want to be American Idol judges and criticize every move. HBK carried Cena? Well, it still takes two to tango, my friend. Damn, give the man some credit already.

If you don't like Cena, that's fine, but all this bitching about same-old shit and wrestling ability, fuck that, he just proved the other night that he can go an hour, and you sat there and watched it, so let it be. Damn. You don't have to watch it if you don't want to. The crowd didn't chant boring, nobody booed because the match was so long, and Cena and Michaels layed it all on the line. If Cena had a different gimmick, then yea, it'd be okay to expect him to be a little more technically sound. But he has the 'brawler', 'fighter' gimmick, so making his moveset limited and his style a little 'unorthodox' makes the gimmick work a little bit better. Why would you expect 'Stone Cold' Steve Austin to be doing wristlocks and leglocks and belly-to-back suplexes. No, Stone Cold raises hell and kicks ass, so he punches and kicks and stomps mudholes in people. Steve Austin of the Hollywood Blondes, yea, he was technically sound. Becasue that was a part of his gimmick. You have to perform the style of wrestling that best suits your gimmick. When Cena first came in WWE, before his turn to the rapper-thug gimmick, he was going move for move with Kurt Angle, believe it or not. But soon as he switched his gimmick, he switched his style. Everybody can't be technically sound. If Vinnie Mac wanted him to be that way, then he would demote him and make him learn to be that way. But he doesn't. So appreciate the fact that he was a part of one of the best matches we've seen this year. If you don't like it, don't watch it.

 

[Punisher1205]

Downward Spiral, shut the hell up. That post sucked. That was a very good match on Monday night. Go watch 10 40-plus minute matches and give me one that doesn't apply a lot of restholds. Please, do that.

That's what's wrong with the business these days anyway, instead of the fans just shutting up and enjoying and appreciating the fact that two guys are in the ring pouring their hearts out for damn-near an hour, we want to be American Idol judges and criticize every move. HBK carried Cena? Well, it still takes two to tango, my friend. Damn, give the man some credit already.

If you don't like Cena, then fine, hate him, whatever. But all this bitching about same-old shit and wrestling ability, fuck that, he just proved the other night that he can go an hour, and you sat there and watched it, so let it be. Damn. You don't have to watch it if you don't want to.

Bravo dude, Bravo... your point is exactly why i stopped reading any spoilers or possible plans for future feudes and matches, because if you just sit down, and watch the match, and let yourself be pulled all around and let yourself be fooled, wrestling is so much more exciting, I hate when people try to analyze wrestling ability... because honestly wrestling ability, while important, isnt as important as Intensity... look at shelton benjamine... or randy orton... then look at guys like Batista, Goldberg, Cena, The Hardyz... these boys, while not technical wrestling gods, have the intensity to pull in the crowd. and thats what really matters.

 

[Ryukuma]

Downward Spiral, shut the hell up. That was a very good match on Monday night. Unless you got two cruiserweights, all 40-plus minute matches are moderate-to-slow-paced. Go watch 10 40-plus minute matches and give me one that doesn't apply a lot of restholds. Please, enlighten me.

bravo, you speak the truth in all you said, people really have to stop comparing everyone to chris benoit or shawn michaels, or whoever else. Thats the main problem with these forum talkers nowadays

 

[Prax]

Yeah I agree with Figure4, it's just the same old shit coming from the mouths of the Cena haters. They're trying to compare them to the best technical wrestlers when obviously that's not Cena's gimmick.

And DS, I strongly suggest you gets your hands on any 45 to 60 minute long match... from the new age Iron Man matches, but especially the 60 minute Flair matches that are on his DVDs. Even the best of the best use extended amounts of rest holds... that's how long matches like that work, the most physically fit can't even wrestle 45 minutes straight without practically dying in that ring, and you're expecting Cean to wrestle an upbeat pace for most of the match? It's completely ridiculous.

I found they both did an excellent job at telling a story on Monday night in that ring. You don't need crazy moves and constant suplexes or slams or whatever to make it a good match. I was really absorbed into the match, and it was truly an epic match... to say anything else would mean you really, truly can't be pleased.

All the Cena haters need to stop reading Wrestlezone and all the spoilers, it isn't helping them at all.

 

[A.J.]

I will agree with DS to a point. It pains me much but i can give the devil some justice he did well on RAW. Though before i can truly get off Cena's back for lack of skills i need to see him be in charge of a lengthly match and see hows it goes. I know it takes two to tango and all the other cliche stuff people been saying, but still HBK was calling majority of the shots. If cena can carry a match like that with a Carlito or just another mid-carder then i'll get off his back since he be the main one calling the shots in the ring.

They did an alright job telling the story of the match, and the ending was great as they finally let Cena lose without any interference or a DQ and did nothing to damage his creditability as it was clean to a legend like HBK.

I'm still not sold on him but and thats a big but he showed some skill.

P.S. I know Prax you asked this before but if the IWC was around before Hogan might have the same heat.

 

[figure4]

Shit, if I'm in the ring with Shawn Michaels, whether I am John Cena or Chris Benoit or Kurt Angle, I'm going to let him call the shots in the match. It would be my honor to let him carry me in a good match. Especially if it gives me credibility as a performer.

 

[X]

Okay, well I finally saw that match from Monday.

And it sucked. Like usual.

Honestly, why again is this supposed to be a good match? Because Cena was able to go 40+ minutes? Just because a match is long, that doesn't make it good. Jesus that was almost as bad as their Wrestlemania match, the only saving grace being the fact that they actually put HBK over.

I don't ever expect Cena to wrestle on par with guys like Benoit or Angle, I expect Cena to be able to wrestle to the point that maybe I can watch one of his matches without going to sleep halfway in. I had to keep waking myself up in the middle of the match, I was just drifting off because it was boring my eyes out of my skull. I give props to Cena for being able to go that long, because I personally didn't think he could, but what is all this bullshit all of you guys are talking as though this one match has proved Cena's skills. The match was pure shit, honestly, there was nothing exciting about it. I would say I got about maybe three or four minutes of actual good wrestling in that entire match. The rest was rest holds. I understand all long matches uses rest holds, but for christs sake atleast when HBK and Bret were doing a bunch of rest holds in the Iron Man match they spiced it up with all different kinds of moves.

Further more figure4, don't ever tell someone to shut the hell up simply because they disagree with you. That's what leads to warnings which leads to bannings.

Honestly can someone tell me what was appealing about this match? I really don't understand why everyone is raving about it.

And the argument that everyone keeps bringing up saying oh, well, it doesn't matter because Cena has proven he draws. Really, he has now? How the fuck did he do that? Last time I checked RAW and PPV's weren't each called The John Cena show. If anything you could say HBK draws the crowds, hell THATS who the fans cheer for, not Cena. And Cena draws, really? Then why is it that WWE's ratings have done nothing but go into the shitter ever since he beat Edge at Unforgiven? Edge won the title, and ratings dipped up for a while there, as soon as he lost it the ratings have dropped terribly. All this bullshit about how you need a guy like Cena to be champ because he draws is absolute horseshit, the only thing Cena has ever drawed is merchandise money, and thats partly because they have more Cena merchandise then any other wrestler or stable. Benoit achieved much higher ratings when he was champ then Cena did, so out goes that argument you guys keep bringing up.

You guys need to face reality sooner or later: Cena can't wrestle, he never could, and at this rate it doesn't appear he ever will be able to adequately. I'm pretty sure Balls Mahoney could've pulled off more moves and a better match with HBK on Monday.

 

[figure4]

I don't get in your business, so you don't get in mine. I'll be figure4, and you be xfearbefore. Ok?

In the words of Ric Flair: "Learn to love it, and learn to live with it." The match was fine. It doesn't matter what Cena does, you'll never like him so what. If the match the other day didn't rub you the right way, then nothing will.

 

[X]

I wasn't getting into your business, I was simply advising you not to flame somebody, especially a very well respected poster. I've made the same mistake several times, I was only trying to help you bud.

And I don't have any bias against John Cena, when he first came into the WWE I thought, hey, this guys got some talent. He's got some nice mic work and he can handle himself pretty well in the ring. Cena then decided to take any talent he had, and flush it down the toilet. I have seen many, many matches like the one Monday night featuring some of my favorite wrestlers, whether it be Funk or Flair or HBK. I still thought those matches sucked. I'm not out to get Cena, I'm out to get good wrestling that's worth me tuning into a product.

Trust me, I would be the first man to come on here posting an I Love John Cena thread if he 1: Went back to a wrestling school to learn more, 2: Applied what he learned, and 3: Put on a good match. The thing is, I don't see that ever happening. He's definately not going to get more training now, and the odds of him putting on a good match become slimmer and slimmer with each passing day that brings guys like HBK and Taker to their retirement. The only time Cena entertains is when he's being carried, honestly could you name one good match Cena had that he wasn't carried all the way through by a far more experienced wrestler?

Bottom line is, if it walks like a duck, talks like a duck, and looks like a duck, it's a motherfuckin' duck. And no matter how many ways you try and tell me it's a seagull, I know it's a fucking duck.

 

[figure4]

Even very well-respected posters have stupid posts. I wouldn't flame somebody unless I felt it necessary. If I get banned, it's my own fault. But at least whenver I make a claim, even if it's unpopular, I try to justify it. DS didn't with that post.

You don't like Cena. You are biased against him. You said the match SUCKED. You didn't say 'I didn't think it was that good' or 'I didn't really like it'. That sounds like bias to me. Sure, HBK may have called the shots, but that is because HBK is a pro and he really cared about making Cena look good while going over in the process, and if you really watch the match then you can see that. Just because the match bored you doesn't mean it sucked...it didn't bore the people in the crowd (unless those boos were edited out of the broadcast). A lot of great matches can be boring to watch. But that doesn't mean its not a good match.

 

[Shocky]

Figure 4, Xfear is just looking out for ya. He disagrees with you, but you bring good stuff to the table, no one wants to see you get banned over something stupid like flaming a g-mod, that's all.

I dunno, i'm still not impressed after monday night. It was a modest matchup at best. Again, the rest holds discussion has come up, but when it is relied upon too many times, it does drag the match down. Watch the Rock/Triple H Iron man match. That was a damn impressive match especially from a guy that "couldn't go" the hour in the Rock. That's going to be your comparision. The Rock drew big ratings, but was never over and got respect until he pulled off the hour. Now to say a 30 minute match, remember this match was taped 6 hours ahead of times, so you don't know how the match was edited to make it look longer, takes Cena to another level, I'm not sure.

This debate will never end. Cena had a an ok match with Kurt Angle. WE can go back and forth all day over why Cena is on top, but numbers don't lie. Cena's time on top of the WWE world has shown he is an average drawing champion. This huge myth around, Oh Cena outdraws everyone, is just that, a myth. The big thing on why McMahon thought numbers for Raw were down was because they were on Spike and not getting properly promoted. We are almost to two years of being back on USA, and #'s are still lower then what they were on Spike TV. Cena is a good champion for kids, but guess what, kids aren't watching tv from 9-11 on a school night.

We can bring Hogan up all the time, or even Kevin Nash. Most people realize, Hogan can't wrestle, but you can't compare what Hulk Hogan did to what John Cena is doing. Hogan showed up once, maybe twice a month on TV. You paid to see Hulk Hogan. Hogan was not overexposed like a John Cena. People dealt with Hogan, because you got Hogan in moderation. Hogan worked in WCW every week, because people tuned into watch him get his ass whooped. Would people sing a different tune if Cena were a heel?, maybe.
The bottom line is, this is 2007, not 1985, not 1995. WWE bought out WCW and ECW, and in that buying out process, they absorbed those fans. We xpect a champion that can put on those type of matches everynight, like a Ric Flair, Shawn Michaels, Triple H. The Belt should mean something. Putting on a halfway decent match every 3 years is not what being the champion on the #1 show in the #1 company is all about.

 

[figure4]

True, I feel you, bro.

More of Cena's matches have been half-decent, but Cena haters/dislikers chew me up whenever I say that, so I won't even go there.

I mean, from 2002-2004, they ran Triple H ragged as the top guy in WWE. So, they decided to let Cena/Batista grip the torch, thus begin a new era in WWE. I've said it time and time again, that three years is the cut-off point. This is the third year. Cena may not even retain at Backlash...if so, he'll probably be the one to put Kennedy over for the title, and WWE will probably go in a different direction from there. Look, I agree that it's not 85 or 95 or the glorious years from late 97-02, but this is still professional wrestling. After you watch it long enough, you've pretty much seen all there is to see in this business. Cena unfortunately was thrust to the top spot behind guys like Triple H, Stone Cold Steve Austin, and The Rock. Even if he was technically sound, he would still be met with disdain by a lot of people, just because of the path that these guys led for him. Fans get tired of all champions...it's just that unfortunately, fans tired of Cena a little bit earlier than they do most guys they put out there. But because he's been able to illicit such a strong reaction--whether positive or negative--it's made him an even bigger star, as stupid as that may sound.

But you said kids ain't stayin up to watch RAW from 9-11? Shiiit, I remember the talk of Tuesday mornings in elementary school was what Stone Cold did last night, or pondering what poon-tang pie was. Those were the days, man. Kids love this shit. Of course WWE's target demographic is not kids, but having the whole good-guy bad-guy aspect of wrestling appeals to kids moreso than adults, because it makes their favorite wrestlers appear like superheroes and the heels as villains. I went to RAW a few months back with one of my boys and this little kid was literally trying to fight my friend because he was an Edge-head and he said Cena sucks. Funny shit.

 

[SiciliazMan85]

Anyone know what the song was playing during the Cena-Michaels video package from Raw on Monday night was? Or where I could find that video? I can't find the thread I started that was asking the question so I don't know if it was ever answered. If the thread got deleted, it'd be nice to know why.

dude, i asked the same question in the "ask a question thread" i thought that was an awesome song and like you, im trying to find the video or even song to it but i cant, and no-one can answer it. it sucks.

 

[X]

Listen, it was just my opinion that the match sucked, I in no way was calling my opinion a fact.

I was simply saying that this match was not anywhere near the kind of match that people should be raving about. If people really think this is good wrestling, then please do yourself a favor and go buy as much ROH or even some TNA as you can, and you will see modern great wrestling. The match may have been entertaining to some, but guess what, no matter how many times you call wrestling Sports-Entertainment, it's still wrestling, and people still tune in expecting to be excited by the WRESTLING. Imagine if WWE decided to have a show with absolutely no wrestling on it? Just promos and backstage interaction? I imagine the ratings would be less then a 0.5. Sure, the entertainment factor and storylines obviously help a lot in the product and are one of the cornerstones of this business, but without the wrestling, it's just another soap opera. Cena impressed me on Monday, I have said that, because I for one didn't think he had it in him to even go that long. But to call this match like its irrefutable evidence of Cena's worth is bullshit. I see better wrestling every week on iMPACT! in the opening bout then I did in that match. And once again, HBK just carried the guy the entire time.

If you're being carried through out all of your matches, it doesn't matter how good the match was, because you were still being carried and the credit still belongs to the guy who carried you.

I'm not out to change anyones mind on Cena, I understand people love him or hate him or are indifferent to him and thats how it's going to be, I'm just stating my personal opinion on the matter.

And like I said, I really don't have any bias against Cena. You all just assume I do because I'm constantly bashing the guys work ethic. I loathe the guys work ethic, but could care less about John Cena the human being. Hell, I even rented the Marine to check it out in hopes of a classic Steven Seagal style action movie cheese-fest, and I'll admit I got just that. I enjoyed the movie, though obviously I won't be rooting for it to take home Best Picture at the Oscars this year, I still enjoyed it simply because I for one enjoy just watching things blow up, people getting messed up, and good action like that. Not to mention Cena's acting was so bad me and my buddies couldn't help but chuckle at it.

Trust me figure4, the day Cena puts on a good match, I will be the first one to change my custom title to "John Cena luver 4 lyfe".