{Merged} Kobashi / Luther Aftermath Thread

[Mr. Steve]

wait, Kobashi lost?

FUCK!

yeah, I got no argument to account for what I've said

 

[Slyfox696]

Unfortunately half of the people you just named I know for a fact have seen very little of Kobashi's work Sly, so no, I think several of the well-known posters who voted for HBK would not have been able to present a sound argument. A word fort, sure, but a a sound argument? No.

Who says you have to have seen Kobashi's work to present a sound argument? I've seen Kobashi's work, but the post I plan to write has nothing to do with his work.

 

[X]

Are you saying you don't like America, you commie traitor?

 

[IrishCanadian25]

It's a shame Kobashi lost, but fact is, that had to be one of the best fantasy wrestling tournament matches we've ever cooked up on the forums. Ever.

 

[X]

Who says you have to have seen Kobashi's work to present a sound argument? I've seen Kobashi's work, but the post I plan to write has nothing to do with his work.

...Are you serious? I'm fairly certain to present a sound argument you'd actually need to be familiar with the subject you're arguing. Not having seen much if any of Kobashi's work would mean, by definition, that you're uneducated on the topic or at the very least not familiar with it. You could come up with a word-fort argument for strictly debate purposes, sure, but if you haven't even seen Kobashi's work than how can your argument be taken seriously? It can't. That's like arguing for why the Rolling Stones are better than the Beatles without ever having listened to a Beatles album.

 

[X]

It's a shame Kobashi lost, but fact is, that had to be one of the best fantasy wrestling tournament matches we've ever cooked up on the forums. Ever.

It would have been if, again, a decent argument for HBK had been mounted. Kobashi supporters dominated that thread from start to finish and he still lost. I hate when that happens.

 

[Slyfox696]

...Are you serious? I'm fairly certain to present a sound argument you'd actually need to be familiar with the subject you're arguing. Not having seen much if any of Kobashi's work would mean, by definition, that you're uneducated on the topic or at the very least not familiar with it. You could come up with a word-fort argument for strictly debate purposes, sure, but if you haven't even seen Kobashi's work than how can your argument be taken seriously? It can't. That's like arguing for why the Rolling Stones are better than the Beatles without ever having listened to a Beatles album.

Let me ask you this. Have you ever seen Babe Ruth play baseball? How about Mario Mendoza? I'm going to guess "no" on both accounts.

But do you think you could tell me who was the better player? Of course you could.


You don't have to see someone's work to be able to present a sound argument. I promise.

 

[Uncle Sam]

It would have been if, again, a decent argument for HBK had been mounted. Kobashi supporters dominated that thread from start to finish and he still lost. I hate when that happens.

Were you not there for Undertaker/Edge? Best pro-Edge argument was "Uh, he's lost so much to The Undertaker that he's, uh, due a win?"

 

[X]

Were you not there for Undertaker/Edge? Best pro-Edge argument was "Uh, he's lost so much to The Undertaker that he's, uh, due a win?"

I was, and that irked me then as well.

 

[Razor]

You know for someone who prides himself on being so articulate and intelligent, you sure aren't displaying those qualities in your argument against Kobashi. Which can be summed up as "I like America".

There are 46 Communists in this forum. Good thing they game themselves away by voting for Kobashi. Now Sly can ban their America-hating asses. Will they ever learn?

 

[Cena's Little Helper]

Let me ask you this. Have you ever seen Babe Ruth play baseball? How about Mario Mendoza? I'm going to guess "no" on both accounts.

But do you think you could tell me who was the better player? Of course you could.


You don't have to see someone's work to be able to present a sound argument. I promise.

What are you talking about? You've taken "seen somebody's work" in its most literal sense. Even if I have never seen Babe Ruth play, I can read statistics, I can see what accolades he has been given, I can look at pricing guides to see how much his baseball cards are worth, and I can watch a eponymous biopic starring John Goodman. There is absolutely no way that you could reasonably argue against someone without having a clue who they are, which was the case here.

 

[Slyfox696]

What are you talking about? You've taken "seen somebody's work" in its most literal sense. Even if I have never seen Babe Ruth play, I can read statistics, I can see what accolades he has been given, I can look at pricing guides to see how much his baseball cards are worth, and I can watch a eponymous biopic starring John Goodman. There is absolutely no way that you could reasonably argue against someone without having a clue who they are, which was the case here.

And I can do the same thing with Kobashi, as well as use common sense.

It works the same way.

 

[Cena's Little Helper]

And I can do the same thing with Kobashi, as well as use common sense.

It works the same way.

Wait, what are you arguing here? I'm trying to argue that at least a working knowledge of Kobashi was necessary to make an informed and reasonable vote. I'm not denying that you could have put forth a good argument for Michaels; I'm arguing that, in order for you to put forth a good argument for why Michaels would win against Kobashi, you'd need to be informed about both wrestlers.

 

[Shadowmancer]

people voted for Shawn Michaels because he is in the WWE and on their TV screens regularly. And has been on their screens for just over 20 years. Kobashi wrestles in Japan which is not shown on everyones tv screens therefore people vote for shawn Michaels on the assumption of if you work in the United States you are the best workers in the world.

 

[One Punch Doug Crashin]

people voted for Shawn Michaels because he is in the WWE and on their TV screens regularly. And has been on their screens for just over 20 years. Kobashi wrestles in Japan which is not shown on everyones tv screens therefore people vote for shawn Michaels on the assumption of if you work in the United States you are the best workers in the world.

^^^^ this

 

[Slyfox696]

Wait, what are you arguing here? I'm trying to argue that at least a working knowledge of Kobashi was necessary to make an informed and reasonable vote. I'm not denying that you could have put forth a good argument for Michaels; I'm arguing that, in order for you to put forth a good argument for why Michaels would win against Kobashi, you'd need to be informed about both wrestlers.

I'm arguing that you don't have to have watched a bunch of Kobashi matches to make a sound argument for HBK.

 

[X]

No, but you need to atleast be familiar with who he is. You need to know his legacy/importance. You don't have to watch a 9000 hour long compilation of his matches, but atleast Wiki the damn man people.

 

[Slyfox696]

No, but you need to atleast be familiar with who he is. You need to know his legacy/importance. You don't have to watch a 9000 hour long compilation of his matches, but atleast Wiki the damn man people.

You have to know his name and importance, I'll grant you. But not really much more, in order to make an informed sound argument.

 

[klunderbunker]

I know of Kobashi and I know of his importance and legacy. I've seen more than a few of his matches and I went with Shawn. Why Shawn you ask? Who has made more of a career out of overcoming the odds in a match where he's the underdog, as he would be here.

 

[Cena's Little Helper]

I'm arguing that you don't have to have watched a bunch of Kobashi matches to make a sound argument for HBK.

All right. But, we're in agreement that, in order to say that Michaels would beat Kobashi, you need to know who Kobashi is?

 

[X]

I know of Kobashi and I know of his importance and legacy. I've seen more than a few of his matches and I went with Shawn. Why Shawn you ask? Who has made more of a career out of overcoming the odds in a match where he's the underdog, as he would be here.

You have GOT to be kidding me KB. Kobashi is arguably the greatest underdog ever. He made a career off of it. It's how he rose to fame. He was the upset kid who made a name for himself rising from the ranks of a jobber to a multiple World Champion and pulling wins over some of the biggest names in Japanese wrestling history from Jumbo Tsuruta to Stan Hansen to Genichiro Tenryu.

 

[Slyfox696]

All right. But, we're in agreement that, in order to say that Michaels would beat Kobashi, you need to know who Kobashi is?

You have to at least be familiar with the man. But if they lined up 100 Americans and 2 Japanese wrestlers, you shouldn't be required to figure out who Kobashi is.

 

[X]

Just for fun, I'm going to run down a list of some of the biggest names that both HBK and Kobashi have defeated. I realize it's over now and HBK has won, but I'm bored, so sue me.

HBK
Bret Hart
Razor Ramon
Triple H
Chris Benoit
Vader
Ric Flair
Curt Hennig
Chris Jericho
Kurt Angle

Kobashi
Giant Baba
Jumbo Tsuruta
Genichiro Tenryu
Stan Hansen
Dr. Death Steve Williams
Mitsuharu Misawa
Toshiaki Kawada
Vader
Jun Akiyama
Kensuke Sasaki
Terry Gordy
Akira Taue
Naomichi Marufuji
Terry Funk
Dory Funk
Samoa Joe


Looks pretty even to me. In fact I'd give Kobashi the edge. I can't think of anyone HBK has defeated that could stack up to a man who's beaten Baba, Jumbo, Misawa, Vader, and the Funk brothers.

 

[Slyfox696]

Just for fun, I'm going to run down a list of some of the biggest names that both HBK and Kobashi have defeated. I realize it's over now and HBK has won, but I'm bored, so sue me.

HBK
Bret Hart
Razor Ramon
Triple H
Chris Benoit
Vader
Ric Flair
Curt Hennig
Chris Jericho
Kurt Angle

Kobashi
Giant Baba
Jumbo Tsuruta
Genichiro Tenryu
Stan Hansen
Dr. Death Steve Williams
Mitsuharu Misawa
Toshiaki Kawada
Vader
Jun Akiyama
Kensuke Sasaki
Terry Gordy
Akira Taue
Naomichi Marufuji
Terry Funk
Dory Funk
Samoa Joe


Looks pretty even to me. In fact I'd give Kobashi the edge. I can't think of anyone HBK has defeated that could stack up to a man who's beaten Baba, Jumbo, Misawa, Vader, and the Funk brothers.

Just saying.

 

[X]

Just saying.

Lol yeah I know I did realize he was on both lists, but the Vader of Japan is a MUCH bigger win than the Vader of the WWF in 1996. Vader was a bit of a joke in the WWF. In Japan he was the motherfuckin' legend killer who destroyed the likes of Antonio Inoki and Stan Hansen while his eyeball popped out of his head and he just shoved it back in.

Vader in Japan was a much bigger deal and a much bigger win than the Vader of the WWF.