**MERGED** All Ryback Discussion (Keep all of it in here!!)

[PowerHouse]

To the idiots on this forum who want to right away blame Ryback for the Swaggers crappy back body drop. Watch AGAIN!!!!!! Swagger gives a half assed hop. Ryback did what he could to try and make the move work. The Back body drop isn't all on Ryback to make the move work Swagger has to do his part and last night he didnt do his part to make the move happen how it should have. I really find it hilarious how some on here are convinced that Ryback is dangerous to work with. Because you heard on DIRT SHEETS that there was A RUMOR that people felt he was dangerous. Yet Vince McMahon loves this guy and wants him pushed. The same Vince who pulled Brodus Clay off TV about a year and a half ago cause he felt Brodus was to dangerous and was going to hurt someone and wanted him to refine his in ring skills befor putting him back on T.V. I hate to break it to many of you here who think you have all the answers and know everything. But Ryback is fine in the ring. Can someone please tell me when Swagger became considered one of the best workers?? Quite frankly Swagger isn't that good at all. Ryback is still improving is he great No but he is getting better and better.

 

[♠Spades â™]

I see everyone here is either blaming Ryback or Swagger but maybe the fault lies on both sides. If Swagger had hit the turnbuckle in a different angle, maybe none of this would have happened, than again, maybe Ryback should have positioned himself better after Swagger hit the turnbuckle. I just feel that in situations like these, its a two way street, it takes two people to have a match.

 

[rge2010]

But in the eyes of the large proportion of the IWC it has to be Rybacks fault? He's big, muscular, cant cut a promo and is getting pushed!!!!

Swagger on the other hand is a 'legit wrestler' with 'credentials'. It has to be Rybacks fault!!!

 

[The Dragon Saga]

What you deserve and what you get are not always the same thing.

Not really. Daniel Bryan deserved to be a star, and now he is. CM Punk deserved to be WWE Champion, and now he is. John Cena deserves to the top guy, and now he is. Most people reek what they sow in pro-wrestling, Ryback deserves to be pushed based off the fact he is doing what WWE are telling him and its working. If you don't like him, don't watch him, simple.

He gets as many, if not more 'Goldberg' chants than 'Feed Me More' chants...

No he doesn't. He originally gained loud Goldberg chants, and why? Because most wrestling fans are fickle and believe they know all. What comparisons does Ryback have to Goldberg? Very few, but due to the fact he is bald, the manner of his push and how they share three moves, wrestling fans jump like idiots. Now they're getting behind him. There was a very feint "Goldberg" chant the past two weeks on Raw, there were very loud "Feed Me More" chants, if you believe the chants are of equal volume, much like you need to learn proper grammar, you need to get your ears checked.

Also, pro-wrestling booking and the way the WWE 'write' their storylines are two different things. The age-old concept of booking is gone in the most visual form of the industry; just ask Jim Cornette.

Ask Jim Cornette? Despite my fondness of Jim, he is pretty delusional. Most of what he says must be taken with a grain of salt due to his bitterness toward his former employer - and I'm a huge Ring of Honor fan, so it isn't easy for me to say that, but I live in reality. Modern pro-wrestling booking shows us all you need are the support of the fans. CM Punk, Daniel Bryan, Sheamus, Randy Orton, Dolph Ziggler and others are prime examples. May take them a few goes, but once they connect with the audience, they're on a fast track to a successful career. Zack Ryder doesn't count however, as Zack Ryder plays an underdog character and having him win as much as they did last winter makes his character redundant. It's better to hold him back and rile fans up, cause he'll gain much more support.

Also, the irony of 'your an idiot' is simply fantastic!!!!

I agree, the irony being you attempted to take my comment out of context, but due to your lack of an education you used apostrophes instead of quotation marks. So allow me to reiterate by quoting myself, "your an idiot."

 

[THTRobtaylor]

As I mentioned, both are to blame... but the problem is you are asking guys already wary of Ryback's safety to work fast spots as it's "his thing". At worst Swagger would be guilty of letting that wariness get the better of him.

WWE has been lucky in the last 25 years that the injuries that were most serious were not caused by people with bad reps. D.Lo, Owen being examples of guys who every talent trusted implicitly, and something still went wrong.

The last guy someone with a botch rep hurt someone was Jannetty on Charles Austin. That cost WWE $26m dollars...and Jannetty (who wasn't 100% to blame either as Austin was green and not properlly vetted) the best of his career. Swagger is not being pushed, but in terms of ability he is light years ahead of Ryback. He should be, he's been around 5 years longer!

So how does someone in that locker room approach this now? Reports were no one wanted to work with Ryback? After last night, that may well intensify. So WWE is then gonna have to start telling people to work with him, if they aren't already. That means IF or WHEN it goes wrong and they get hurt, it ain't 26m... more like $100m cos WWE didn't ensure their safety?

Do they say "erm no thanks" when they get slated for Ryback and get future endeavoured? Only to show up on all the talk shows when he kills or maims someone.

That moment summed up the risk. You can say Swagger has equal blame at best... but it illustrated that a) talent is not happy working with him and b) he is not safe enough for the speed he is trying to work. They are making safety an issue for the kids show, but what about on RAW? I was stunned nothing was done to Ziggler over Barrett's injury other than reward him (which was 100% Ziggler's fault and totally unsafe).

I don't hate Ryback, he could be a good member of the roster, but Vince is forcing it too hard, all it takes is one person to get hurt and Ryback is done.

 

[DylanSnapp]

Clearly most of you don't know how a back body drop is executed. Ryback did his job. Bend down post on Swaggers thighs and lift. Swagger's job is to give a little hop, post high with his arms off Ryback's shoulders to the peak(for the highest drop) and flip. Allowing Ryback's arms on his thigh to help, a little, on the rotation. It's quite obvious Swagger didn't post off of Ryback's shoulders to get any height thus flying forward. Swagger's fault. Could've been an accident but it's still Swagger's fault.

 

[johnnyvictory]

Went back and looked at the match, and that was a nasty backdrop. Swagger is lucky as hell. In wrestling you have to trust your opponent to keep you safe, and thats just not on Rybacks mind in his matches. He just wants the move to look powerful and for his opponent to take a big bump. They already kept him off TV because he was unsafe, and here we go again. It just sucks when the best performers are pushed aside for guys with "the look."

 

[Miz_Mark]

Not really. Daniel Bryan deserved to be a star, and now he is. CM Punk deserved to be WWE Champion, and now he is. John Cena deserves to the top guy, and now he is. Most people reek what they sow in pro-wrestling, Ryback deserves to be pushed based off the fact he is doing what WWE are telling him and its working. If you don't like him, don't watch him, simple.



No he doesn't. He originally gained loud Goldberg chants, and why? Because most wrestling fans are fickle and believe they know all. What comparisons does Ryback have to Goldberg? Very few, but due to the fact he is bald, the manner of his push and how they share three moves, wrestling fans jump like idiots. Now they're getting behind him. There was a very feint "Goldberg" chant the past two weeks on Raw, there were very loud "Feed Me More" chants, if you believe the chants are of equal volume, much like you need to learn proper grammar, you need to get your ears checked.



Ask Jim Cornette? Despite my fondness of Jim, he is pretty delusional. Most of what he says must be taken with a grain of salt due to his bitterness toward his former employer - and I'm a huge Ring of Honor fan, so it isn't easy for me to say that, but I live in reality. Modern pro-wrestling booking shows us all you need are the support of the fans. CM Punk, Daniel Bryan, Sheamus, Randy Orton, Dolph Ziggler and others are prime examples. May take them a few goes, but once they connect with the audience, they're on a fast track to a successful career. Zack Ryder doesn't count however, as Zack Ryder plays an underdog character and having him win as much as they did last winter makes his character redundant. It's better to hold him back and rile fans up, cause he'll gain much more support.



I agree, the irony being you attempted to take my comment out of context, but due to your lack of an education you used apostrophes instead of quotation marks. So allow me to reiterate by quoting myself, "your an idiot."

First of all, I agree with you on just about everything. Ryback was not to be blamed for this botched move, he's over like a bastard, he gets far more and louder Feed Me More chants than Goldberg chants, and I do not expect this to hinder him at all, nor to I think it should...

Having said that, mocking your detractor for using apostrophes makes you look like a monstrous jackass, because you entirely miss the point. It's "you're an idiot." Meaning you are an idiot. "your an idiot" means the idiot that belongs to you.

 

[rvdangelhhh]

Holy Crap! I cannot stand the Jack Swagger character. I have really liked Ryback even though he is a blatant Goldberg ripoff. No problem. After seeing that backbody drop last night I found myself screaming at the tv: "What is wrong with you?! That man (Swagger) is a husband and a father!!!" I didn't see any remorse in Skipp's eyes either. He needs to go if he cannot take care of his opponents in the ring. Mick Foley always said that was one thing he always loved about working with HHH. The man knew how to take care of the guy he was performing with so they could make more money together in future matches.

 

[closet_fan]

After watching Ryback last night, it is easy to see why many of the bacjstage talent has been fearful of working with him. He rushes EVERYTHING, shows no attempts to protect the guys he is working with and hell, if you want to talk about specifics, he damn near broke Swaggers neck on Raw last night. Now, how can they continue to build a guy as a monster when he is unsafe in the ring? Sooner of later he will hurt someone badly with his wreckless approach to ring work.

So, I guess my question is, does anyone else think Ryback needs to be back on the training circuit rather than making weekly TV slots? To me, one guys push isn;t worth endangering the rest of the locker room. Let's face it, if Ryback didn't look like he did, he would be right out the door.

I was watching that match and I was thinking that I wouldn't have been shocked to hear Swagger suffered a concussion. I know the mat is padded, but he was really slamming his head hard.

I don't pay attention to any of Ryback's matches. But after watching last night's, I don't blame anyone for not wanting to work with him. He's pretty bad.

And it's weird because the crowd seemed into him, but then the Goldberg chants started up again.

 

[ultramattman]

What you deserve and what you get are not always the same thing. Also, as for crowd reaction, you can't just pick and choose. He gets as many, if not more 'Goldberg' chants than 'Feed Me More' chants... is this his gimmick working? I'd hate to see it failing.

If you want to see an example of this gimmick failing, look no further than Tensai. Dead quiet when he's in the ring. THAT is your gimmick failing. Who cares if some people are chanting 'Goldberg'? It's still reaction, and reaction means you care.

The crowd last night was going NUTS for Ryback. I couldn't believe how loud it was.

 

[TheLoneCharles]

Watching it on TV, it looked very awkward before the move took place. Swagger seemed to lose speed as he approached Ryback and then Ryback did an awkward lifting motion. I always thought the execution of the back body drop is the person receiving it has to catapult themselves, and the person giving one helps with the launch. I think they both awkwardly timed the move.

 

[The 1-2-3 Killam]

Miz misses one catch in a match, and immediately the "he's so unsafe, job his ass!" threads popped up. It happens every time there's a major botch that could have hurt somebody. Ryback is generally safe in the ring, and I'm not sure where you're getting your information about Superstars not wanting to work with him, but I've actually heard some pretty positive things coming from the locker room.

Remember when he was tossing around two guys at a time? Not a single injury report came out of those matches. He has no record of being hard to work with, stiff, or green in the ring. You're mistaking character and gimmick for wanting something to be wrong with him.

Swagger didn't help him a whole with that move; regardless that's probably the first time I've seen Ryback come close to hurting somebody. You want to talk about risk, why the hell is Sin Cara still out there? Even Brodus Clay is still a hell of a lot more green than Ryback.

His progression has been fantastic, and you're hearing the fan reception increase week after week. THat live crowd loved him last night! Now that they have the clothesline aligned with his "feed me more" chant, they'll have more to catch on to. I'm so sick of hearing "get this guy in a proper feud" or "who cares about jobbers?" That's the point, you're not supposed to care about the no-names he was being fed. All they needed to do was make it look like he's a powerhouse; they obviously succeeded. Then he finally got a short feud with an undercard tag team from NXT and Superstars, and defeated them. Then he got a short feud with Jinder Mahal, another NXT and Superstars guy that's been given a small push over there. And now he has a win over a midcard Raw talent and former US and World Champion.

The point of all the jobbers was to peak your interest BEFORE he started taking out recognizable talent. They're trying to avoid him getting over-used and the fans bitching about "jobbing" guys that "deserve his push". Ryback's build has been slow, classic and brilliant. He's not dangerous, and I'm excited to see where he goes.

 

[Skinsley]

I watched that match with a friend today and I even said that Swagger would probably be the one to get in trouble for this match even though Ryback is clearly Green as grass.

Send him back to NXT for god sakes, or atleast let him practice with his next victim behind the scenes for a while...that match was ridiculous. (and the crowd said Marella and Slater was "boring"...one of the most solid matches on the card)

 

[PowerHouse]

This thread is why the IWC is so looked down upon. We have people on this thread pretending to know more about Pro Wrestling and how things are worked in the ring than performers who do the moves. Some are saying Vince is pushing Ryback to hard and that Ryback belong on NXT. So now Vince doesnt know what he is doing. If you understand a back body drop you know Swagger screwed the move up for himself. Its not like Ryback didnt try to elevate him with the Back body drop. Then you have someone saying Ryback didnt even look concerned. Since when are they supposed to break character over something like that. Its not Rybacks job to break character and ask Swagger if he is ok in the middle of the ring. Goldberg ended Bret Harts career with a Superkick he didnt break character over it. Brock Lesnar nearly kill A train with an F5 he didnt break character over that. When Sid broke his leg in his match against Scott Stieneri didnt see Stiener break character and ask Sid how he was. Nash never looked concerned when he botched his powerbomb on The Giant in WCW and nearly broke his neck. Some of you CHILDREN need to step away from the keyboard and stop trying to analyze every move of Ryback and then act asif you know how he should be booked and where he should be.

Fact is he was brought back to TV cause once he healed from his injury cause they liked his in ring work. If he was dangerous he wouldn't be on RAW week in and week out or on Smackdown. Any performer can make a mistake, it doesn't make then dangerous to work with. If any of you here who think Ryback is dangerous were or are fans of Goldberg then you are a fan of the most dangerous and careless worker in a long time.

 

[Vincent Michaels]

To me it looked like Swagger didn't even try to rotate his body in the air and land on his back, which was likely caused by a combination of him being too tall and not giving himself enough momentum to really go completely over Ryback's shoulder(he tried with a small jump beforehand but then he didn't leave himself enough room to do the full jump clean afterwards). You can even tell Ryback noticed this since he moved sideways with the throw so Swagger would have enough room to tuck his head in(which he did attempt), but he didn't have enough time so we got the akward landing. To me it was just a fluke thing and anyone who tries to use this to peg Ryback as "unsafe" and "green" is an idiot.

 

[abarela067]

The botch was Ryback's fault completely... After he shot Swagger into the turnbuckle he failed to bend down low enough for Swagger to hop and get the rotation necessary to complete the back body drop successsfully... Also, its obvious that Ryback has gotten used to working with talent smaller than Swagger, with the exception of Reks... Ryback was working the match too quickly and trying to make himself look more powerful than he is.. He needs to take his time, especially when he workng with bigger superstars to ensure that spots are done correctly and safely..

 

[HBsam31]

I just watched this a few times over and Ryback isn't the only one to blame here, but it didn't look like he gave any help at all. Ryback didn't get down low enough, and he didn't help much with his arms either. It was scary none the less. Instead of having him go back to training, maybe they just need someone to work with him a bit before his matches. I can't imagine what would have happened if he dumped Orton or Cena on their heads like that. I would hate to someone get seriously injured because of something like that happening.

 

[richunclescrooge]

To me this looks like Ryback's fault. People can say whatever they want but I'll call it like I see it.

Ryback got fully under Swagger, that was perfectly fine. Swagger posted on Ryback's back, again so far so good.

Then Swagger gets in the air and Ryback has his hands on Swagger's thighs, Ryback is standing straight up but his elbows are still at his sides! Swagger has no support and is basically holding himself up.

At that point I can only assume in Swagger's head he was thinking that he was not going to get any kind of help with the rotation, so he let his hands go to protect himself on the fall down. Good thing he did too.

Once Ryback starts to give Swagger a bit of a boost he also turns 90 degrees toward the camera. It seems he realized he was not able to get Swagger fully up in the air but tries to help him with the rotation as he is going down.

Conclusion: Ryback should have given Swagger a bigger boost much earlier for him to be able to get full rotation in the backdrop.

 

[CuddleBuns84]

Well first and foremost....

This isn't the first time a botch move like that occurred. If you take a look at Taker vs. Kane WM 20. You will notice 3/4 of the match a similar mistake. Oh yea... Kane and Taker are consider two of the best workers in the industry.

It's a simple botch, where yes. Two are to blame. But no need to quit feeding him. He needs some meaningful feuds. Hell, he has more TV time then the US title holder. Strap that thing on, and let him destroy.

The crowd is enjoying, and you will have a more credible mid-card title.

 

[lazeric]

Like everybody else I too watched the match and I do agree with the majority of ppl who put the blame on both guys. A back body drop is a dangerous move in its self but adding in the fact that Jack is a bigger guy and Ryback is used to fighting muppet babies it adds so much more danger to the move. As far as sending Ryback down to train more IMO that's a severe case of character suicide. For all his flaws the guy is in the top 10 of most over guys in the WWE and to take him off tv now would destroy all of his current momentum. I think he just needs some in ring time with some who can groom him. A veteran like Finlay, Goldust, or William Regal would be perfect as a mentor because they are great teachers and can so him how to safely operate in the ring.

 

[Fansince1992]

Simple answer , they could just stop Ryback using a Backdrop against his opponents. Give Ryback a move like a Gorilla Press Slam instead. Ryback has the size and strength to do this move on any size opponent (well maybe not Big Show or Great Khali) I think this move is a lot safer than a Backdrop, and it looks and suits someone like Ryback a lot more than a Backdrop.

If you saw when Ryback faced Jinder Mahal. The Backdrop on Mahal was executed perfectly. Jinder seemed to put a lot more effort into the move than Swagger did. Maybe Ryback got complacent and thought Swagger would do the same. Swagger looked Knackered when he hit the turnbuckle before the backdrop. Ryback may of winded him and Swagger wasn't ready to take the backdrop at that moment.

 

[MrMojoRisin]

It almost looked to me like Swagger wasn't expecting a backdrop at that moment. He's selling the throw into the turnbuckle a little, and Ryback's there within a couple of steps to backdrop him. It just seems like an odd time to be doing that spot. It's hard for the guy getting thrown to build any momentum when they're in that close.

He did the same in close backdrop with Mahal a week earlier, but Mahal's a lot lighter than Swagger and it's easier to do that move in tight against a lighter guy. I'm thinking Ryback just thought he could handle the heavier Swagger easier than he was actually able to.

Swagger could have helped himself better, but again, I don't think he's expecting that spot until the last moment when he sees Ryback put his arm up in the air to call it.

I'm chalking that up to bad spot calling on Ryback's part, although in fairness to him, he's been working with much lighter guys for months now, and probably just thought he could do more than he actually can. Lesson learned and at least no one was hurt.

 

[MINISTRYrising]

I think everybody has a good point on this one. its not just Rybacks fault, but at the same time Ryback needs to be thinking a bit more before peforming these moves. So going back and getting a bit more training would not hurt. Have him Get taken out by Big Show then after a few months have him come back bigger and better then before.

 

[The Dragon Saga]

I think everybody has a good point on this one. its not just Rybacks fault, but at the same time Ryback needs to be thinking a bit more before peforming these moves. So going back and getting a bit more training would not hurt. Have him Get taken out by Big Show then after a few months have him come back bigger and better then before.

Yeah.

Take him out of action, derail the reactions hes been getting, stop the "Feed Me More" chants dead in their tracks and kill any momentum the Ryback character has. That right there is obviously the intelligent, sensible and smart thing to do. Sense the sarcasm there?