IMPACT Wrestling LD for 08.18.11

[It's Damn Real!]

Decent show. AJ Styles vs. RVD was getting pretty good until the ending, it's all setting up the RVD vs. Jerry Lynn angle but to get a clean finish from it would have made it a pretty good bout.

Overall though, Ric Flair stole the show tonight in my eyes. Dude was on fire every time he was on camera - don't care if he was ninety-seven years old, using a walker with a colostamy bag attatched to his hip, he's still the man.

This times 1,000,000.

Same for Sting, IMO. I already said in the thread on this in the TNA section that these two could be wrestling a match for the last Jell-O cup in the retirement home and I'd still mark the fuck out.

 

[Y-2-Jay]

This show was pretty shitty but of course the tna marks are gonna say it was ok.

I am not a TNA mark and i thought it was ok.

 

[hatehabsforever]

I thought it was a pretty good show. It's the first time in a while that I actually lasted the whole two hours. Plenty of ******ed crap that I didn't like, but there was some quality stuff interspersed in there too.

Still can't figure out why Crimson is not on the BFG poster, I think that guy has potential.

 

[Rising Savior]

And of course the TNA haters are gonna say it was shit. Welcome to the never-changing world of the weekly TNA LD. You'll fit in just fine here.

I call it like I see it and yeah the show was pretty shitty. Nothing great at all and no I'm not a hater just telling it like it is mark.

 

[It's Damn Real!]

I thought it was a pretty good show. It's the first time in a while that I actually lasted the whole two hours. Plenty of ******ed crap that I didn't like, but there was some quality stuff interspersed in there too.

Still can't figure out why Crimson is not on the BFG poster, I think that guy has potential.

Because he isn't a name yet. Potential doesn't sell tickets. Names do.

I call it like I see it and yeah the show was pretty shitty. Nothing great at all and no I'm not a hater just telling it like it is mark.

LOL. I love when people use that term like they think they're going to upset the other person.

You know what you should do? Get back to whining about everything. You were more entertaining that way. Your lousy insults do nothing for you.

 

[Coco]

I'm considering boycotting until Van Dam goes back to matching black tape on both hands. No doubt this will register dramatically in the ratings.

 

[hatehabsforever]

Because he isn't a name yet. Potential doesn't sell tickets. Names do.

I wasn't buying that argument in the other thread earlier in the week, and I'm not buying it now. Fact of the matter is that at this stage of the game, no one on the TNA roster is going to sell tickets. That's been obvious since the start of the Hogan regime nearly two years ago. Sure, they'll garner a little nostalgic interest, but the buy rates will still likely suck.

That being said, why not put one of their promising young superstars on the poster? He was great tonight, far better than anyone else on the show, albeit promo only and no match. I have far more interest in seeing Crimson/Angle than Sting/Flair. Even if he's not featured prominently, put his face on there somewhere. He will be in the title match aft all.

I thought the guy was good on the mic, he was intense, stood up courageously to Angle, and I don't consider his look "generic". But if your company doesn't have faith enough in you to put you on the poster because you allegedly won't draw, that's a problem.

And don't even get me started on Styles' omission.

 

[It's Damn Real!]

I wasn't buying that argument in the other thread earlier in the week, and I'm not buying it now. Fact of the matter is that at this stage of the game, no one on the TNA roster is going to sell tickets. That's been obvious since the start of the Hogan regime nearly two years ago. Sure, they'll garner a little nostalgic interest, but the buy rates will still likely suck.

No, that is not fact. That is opinion, and yours at that.

Last I checked they were selling thousands of tickets to Bound For Glory events the last few years and the main matches in them almost always featured Sting and Kurt Angle which means Sting and Kurt Angle draw.

Buy rates are not the only indicator of draw. The gate matters, as do t-shirt sales and a lot of other elements. TNA's financials are private, but I'd bet a valuable body part that Kurt Angle or Sting shirts sell out much faster and in larger numbers than Crimson's.

That being said, why not put one of their promising young superstars on the poster? He was great tonight, far better than anyone else on the show, albeit promo only and no match. I have far more interest in seeing Crimson/Angle than Sting/Flair. Even if he's not featured prominently, put his face on there somewhere. He will be in the title match aft all.

Says who? He hasn't won anything yet, and even if he does, the concept of the poster is to sell casual fans, which means featuring the most well-known stars of the company, not guys with "potential". Potential doesn't sell. Names do.

People buy RVD's t-shirts because he's RVD. Jesse Nese, I'm sure, could do a five-star frog splash, too, but if TNA made t-shirts for him I highly doubt anyone would be spending money to buy front row tickets to see him. Why? Because Nese isn't a name. RVD is.

I thought the guy was good on the mic, he was intense, stood up courageously to Angle, and I don't consider his look "generic". But if your company doesn't have faith enough in you to put you on the poster because you allegedly won't draw, that's a problem.

And don't even get me started on Styles' omission.

No, it's not, because Crimson is being built, which means it's a process. When the WWE was pushing Cena through he roof it was still HHH on the posters selling the brand until Cena made his mark. The same will happen in TNA with guys like Sting and Angle until guys like Crimson make a name for themselves.

 

[Rising Savior]

LOL. I love when people use that term like they think they're going to upset the other person. You know what you should do? Get back to whining about everything. You were more entertaining that way. Your lousy insults do nothing for you.

Ooooohhhhh I'm a whiner, oooohhhhh I'm a complainer, ooooohhhh my whining and complaining is so entertaining. What I saw tonight was a pretty shitty show that I didn't like. But it's okay IDR because you like shit everything Tna does you love because your head is so far shoved up Tna's ass as a mark that your used to seeing shit all the time so it doesn't bother you. You see shit you say um good I see shit I complain.

 

[It's Damn Real!]

There he is! That's the Rising Savior we'll come to know and love.

 

[Rising Savior]

There he is! That's the Rising Savior we'll come to know and love.

Wow praise from the Almighty IDR that must really mean something around here.

 

[JJYanks121]

Didn't see the show yet but on the habs/IDR debate, I love ya IDR but you are so dead wrong it's not even funny.

I hope this works but if it doesn't I'll edit it. It's the Wrestlemania 21 poster which was a show that was main evented by two "no names" that would be the two new faces of the WWE. Neither were huge YET and neither were known draws YET but BOTH appear on the poster. Care to guess why? Because their match was the marquee of the show. Thus, you market your top matches, not just guys who used to matter because some people might recognize them.

Thing is, I don't think Crimson is going to be in the main event and that's why he's not on the poster. I think he's the first casualty of Angle's quest and Bobby Roode is the one who ends it by winning the BFG series and winning the title. At least I think that's a better direction to go and would explain the poster. If Crimson is in the main event (and don't tell me Hogan/Sting is the main event because it shouldn't be), then he absolutely 100 percent belongs on the poster. We'll pick this up when we know the matchups but I gotta side with habs at this point, even if he is a baaaston guy.

 

[hatehabsforever]

No, that is not fact. That is opinion, and yours at that.

Last I checked they were selling thousands of tickets to Bound For Glory events the last few years and the main matches in them almost always featured Sting and Kurt Angle which means Sting and Kurt Angle draw.

Buy rates are not the only indicator of draw. The gate matters, as do t-shirt sales and a lot of other elements. TNA's financials are private, but I'd bet a valuable body part that Kurt Angle or Sting shirts sell out much faster and in larger numbers than Crimson's.

Maybe I should not have used the word "fact," because you are correct, it is merely my opinion. A correct opinion, but opinion nonetheless.

Selling thousands of tickets does not necessarily mean that Sting and Angle draw. It means that TNA has a die hard core fan base, albeit small in relative terms, who will go see anyone. And I think they would come out to BFG featuring some new blood too. Let's face it, you are amongst this core fan base, and I think you'd come out for Gunner and Crimson and the like wouldn't you? Let's face it, you have Crimson in your sig, not Hogan or Flair. I think you sell the core fan base a little short. They may have questionable taste in pro wrestling ( ), but they're not idiots ( although some dizzier guys on here sometimes make me think otherwise). WWE has shown that if you feature and push young guys, people will come on board. No need to continue to force feed us with nostalgia.

Says who? He hasn't won anything yet, and even if he does, the concept of the poster is to sell casual fans, which means featuring the most well-known stars of the company, not guys with "potential". Potential doesn't sell. Names do.

But potential will never develop into stars if not pushed and featured. You are correct that he hasn't won anything yet but he has to be seen as a strong candidate to win the BFG series. I'm not saying he has to be featured more prominently than the old guys, but I am saying that he has to be on there somewhere, as does Styles. This poster would make me think, if I were a casual fan, that this is a company that is not moving forward into the next decade, but instead is stuck in the 1990's, and that would do nothing to draw me in. Sure, put these fogies on the poster somewhere, but give me a reason to be invested in the company, for this event and moving forward..

People buy RVD's t-shirts because he's RVD. Jesse Nese, I'm sure, could do a five-star frog splash, too, but if TNA made t-shirts for him I highly doubt anyone would be spending money to buy front row tickets to see him. Why? Because Nese isn't a name. RVD is.

Irrelevant to the discussion at hand. Nese is not being suggested as worthy of prominence on the poster, I'm not even certain who he is, I think he is probably one of those X-division guys who we saw last night for two minutes. And we only saw him for 2 minutes because we were being force fed 3 or 4 meaningless Flair segments, and horrible Knockout drivel. People will continue to buy t-shirts for RVD, and Flair, and Angle, and Hogan, but they're never going to buy Crimson t-shirts if they keep him in these guys' shadows. Crimson is being touted as a possible opponent for a Goldberg showdown, yet it appears that the TNA brass still don't think he is worthy of high profile. Indicative of what I always say about TNA: myopic vision, always looking to just the next PPV, but never beyond.

No, it's not, because Crimson is being built, which means it's a process. When the WWE was pushing Cena through he roof it was still HHH on the posters selling the brand until Cena made his mark. The same will happen in TNA with guys like Sting and Angle until guys like Crimson make a name for themselves.

He is being built, and I appreciate it is a process, but it doesn't have to occur at a snail's pace. That's not to say he has to be pushed too soon and too fast (like some WWE guys have been, I'll save you the effort of saying it), but for Christ sake, if he is the next big thing, the next big Goldberg-esque monster, put the guy on the poster. When Cena was being pushed, it was still Triple H on the poster because he was still a young and relevant superstar. It's not like Cena was being kept off the posters while Jake Roberts and Jimmy Snuka were front and centre to lure in casual fans with nostalgia. And Cena moved to the forefront pretty quickly because the WWE brass saw something in him and went with it. It could have failed, although obviously it didn't. They saw a budding superstar and it wasn't too long before he was front and centre on the posters. This is what should be happening with Crimson. Take off the blinders, TNA, and see what you potentially have, and go with it. It may not pay immediate dividends, but it will if you give it a chance.

 

[Slyfox696]

Maybe I should not have used the word "fact," because you are correct, it is merely my opinion. A correct opinion, but opinion nonetheless.

Not really. An opinion which predicts the future can never be correct, merely historically accurate and a reasonable hypothesis for the future. In 1996, if you had said Steve Austin would never sell tickets, that would have been your opinion, historically accurate, but completely wrong.

Selling thousands of tickets does not necessarily mean that Sting and Angle draw. It means that TNA has a die hard core fan base, albeit small in relative terms, who will go see anyone. And I think they would come out to BFG featuring some new blood too. Let's face it, you are amongst this core fan base, and I think you'd come out for Gunner and Crimson and the like wouldn't you?

Not right now I wouldn't. But I would come out to watch Sting and AJ Styles and I'm sure many others would go for Hogan, Flair and Angle.

WWE has shown that if you feature and push young guys, people will come on board. No need to continue to force feed us with nostalgia.

This is inaccurate as well. The WWE has shown if you feature and push the correct guys, people will come on board. But Jack Swagger, John Morrison, and the like prove just featuring and pushing young guys will not always bring people on board. In fact, the single greatest way to get a wrestler over with fans is not a push, but rather long-term exposure in front of an audience. The longer you work in front of an audience, the more likely they are to accept you.

But potential will never develop into stars if not pushed and featured. You are correct that he hasn't won anything yet but he has to be seen as a strong candidate to win the BFG series. I'm not saying he has to be featured more prominently than the old guys, but I am saying that he has to be on there somewhere, as does Styles. This poster would make me think, if I were a casual fan, that this is a company that is not moving forward into the next decade, but instead is stuck in the 1990's, and that would do nothing to draw me in. Sure, put these fogies on the poster somewhere, but give me a reason to be invested in the company, for this event and moving forward..

The biggest show of the year is not about featuring unproven guys, it's about putting on your most exciting, most thrilling, most interesting and best event possible. It doesn't matter who it features, as long as it features wrestlers people care about in matches they want to see.

As for the particular discussion on Crimson, I haven't watched him enough to tell one way or another. I just thought I'd throw some facts into the discussion.

 

[It's Damn Real!]

Maybe I should not have used the word "fact," because you are correct, it is merely my opinion. A correct opinion, but opinion nonetheless.

So he substitutes "fact" with "correct opinion" as if there is any defining difference between the two.

Selling thousands of tickets does not necessarily mean that Sting and Angle draw. It means that TNA has a die hard core fan base, albeit small in relative terms, who will go see anyone. And I think they would come out to BFG featuring some new blood too. Let's face it, you are amongst this core fan base, and I think you'd come out for Gunner and Crimson and the like wouldn't you? Let's face it, you have Crimson in your sig, not Hogan or Flair. I think you sell the core fan base a little short. They may have questionable taste in pro wrestling ( ), but they're not idiots ( although some dizzier guys on here sometimes make me think otherwise). WWE has shown that if you feature and push young guys, people will come on board. No need to continue to force feed us with nostalgia.

LOL. Actually, selling thousands of tickets does mean Sting and Angle draw. It's exactly what it means, in fact. TNA's "die hard" fan base live in Orlando and Tennessee. The rest of the country where they tour are simply fans. You are marginalizing the entire argument by labeling them all "die hard" to somehow prove they would buy tickets even if Shark Boy v. Curry Man was the main event, which is quite disingenuous and frankly impossible for you to know. That said, I'd venture a healthy guess that very few tickets would be sold to an event that was completely devoid of Angle, Sting and the rest of the veterans on the roster. A very healthy one at that too, if you go by the reported draws for many of their house shows that Angle, Sting and the vets don't work.

The die hards? Yeah, they'll show, but you won't have nearly the same gate draw as you would if those vets were on the show.

As to your more direct questions, no, I would not come out to see Gunner or Crimson. I'd come out to see Sting, Angle, Flair and Hogan and then be happy that Crimson, Styles, etc. were also on the card. The last PPV I went to was Hard Justice in 2007 or 2008 when Booker T was main eventing. Why'd I go? To see Sting, Booker T and Christian Cage.

As to your comment about WWE showing you can push young guys, you conveniently forget that WWE is a brand with 20 years worth of legacy and history to help sell bags of dog shit labeled as Vince's Brownies. It doesn't matter who they put out there — with the WWE machine behind anyone, he/she can get over because they are being put into a dominant position in a company who's fans aren't half as volatile or unforgiving as TNA's can be. So no, WWE has not proven that you can push young stars and fans will show. They've proven that they can push young stars and their fans will show.

But potential will never develop into stars if not pushed and featured. You are correct that he hasn't won anything yet but he has to be seen as a strong candidate to win the BFG series. I'm not saying he has to be featured more prominently than the old guys, but I am saying that he has to be on there somewhere, as does Styles. This poster would make me think, if I were a casual fan, that this is a company that is not moving forward into the next decade, but instead is stuck in the 1990's, and that would do nothing to draw me in. Sure, put these fogies on the poster somewhere, but give me a reason to be invested in the company, for this event and moving forward..

Who is not pushing and featuring him? He's been given an undefeated streak, is being put into a prominent program with Kurt f'n Angle and has wins over a number of "names" in TNA. Now all of a sudden because he's not on a poster he's not being pushed or featured? My how black and white that is...

Again, names sell tickets, potential does not. AJ Styles is not a name. Crimson is not a name. Gunner is not a name. Hulk Hogan is a name. Ric Flair is a name. Rob Vam Dam is a name. Kurt Angle is a name. These are the guys you want on the poster. The guys who's faces spark instant recognition and who's name will pique the interest of fans who obviously know who they are but may not know they are still wrestling in TNA.

This is the biggest show of the year. You don't fuck around and experiment with "potential" at a time like this. Worry about that for one of the more meaningless PPV's like Final Resolution.

Irrelevant to the discussion at hand. Nese is not being suggested as worthy of prominence on the poster, I'm not even certain who he is, I think he is probably one of those X-division guys who we saw last night for two minutes. And we only saw him for 2 minutes because we were being force fed 3 or 4 meaningless Flair segments, and horrible Knockout drivel. People will continue to buy t-shirts for RVD, and Flair, and Angle, and Hogan, but they're never going to buy Crimson t-shirts if they keep him in these guys' shadows. Crimson is being touted as a possible opponent for a Goldberg showdown, yet it appears that the TNA brass still don't think he is worthy of high profile. Indicative of what I always say about TNA: myopic vision, always looking to just the next PPV, but never beyond.

No, plenty relevant to the discussion at hand, but I'll shore if up for you:

Who do you think sells more t-shirts — Crimson or Rob Van Dam? Crimson or Sting? Crimson or Kurt Angle?

But that's hilarious you think he's not thought of as high profile... he's in a feud with the single greatest wrestler on the roster who also happens to be a veteran and a multi-time World Champion, but what good would Angle do for Crimson's career? Put him on the Bound For Glory poster otherwise he's not being pushed!

He is being built, and I appreciate it is a process, but it doesn't have to occur at a snail's pace. That's not to say he has to be pushed too soon and too fast (like some WWE guys have been, I'll save you the effort of saying it), but for Christ sake, if he is the next big thing, the next big Goldberg-esque monster, put the guy on the poster. When Cena was being pushed, it was still Triple H on the poster because he was still a young and relevant superstar. It's not like Cena was being kept off the posters while Jake Roberts and Jimmy Snuka were front and centre to lure in casual fans with nostalgia. And Cena moved to the forefront pretty quickly because the WWE brass saw something in him and went with it. It could have failed, although obviously it didn't. They saw a budding superstar and it wasn't too long before he was front and centre on the posters. This is what should be happening with Crimson. Take off the blinders, TNA, and see what you potentially have, and go with it. It may not pay immediate dividends, but it will if you give it a chance.

You obviously don't if you can get this up in arms over him not being on a damn poster.

But that's funny, Kurt Angle and Sting are now retired Hall-of-Famers? I take it neither can go in the ring anymore, since you are obviously comparing them to men who can't. That argument is horseshit because the comparison is way off base. HHH was not "young" when Cena was being pushed. He was a veteran, just like Angle. You marginalize every point when it works in your favor, man.

 

[The Dragon Saga]

I'm sure many others would go for Hogan, Flair and Angle.

I know I would. Especially Flair and Angle; not as much for Hogan, but he'd be a nice treat.

 

[hatehabsforever]

Not really. An opinion which predicts the future can never be correct, merely historically accurate and a reasonable hypothesis for the future. In 1996, if you had said Steve Austin would never sell tickets, that would have been your opinion, historically accurate, but completely wrong.

And here, silly me, I thought an opinion could never be wrong . Frankly this was just yanking IDR's chain a little, as I'm sure he knows, as we frequently debate the few pros and numerous cons of TNA. This is my opinion, so obviously I think it is correct, otherwise I wouldn't state it. I guess only time will tell.

Not right now I wouldn't. But I would come out to watch Sting and AJ Styles and I'm sure many others would go for Hogan, Flair and Angle.

Purely conjecture on my part, but I would love to know which group would comprise the larger number: the number of casual fans who will tune in specifically to see Hogan and Flair, or the number of fans who will tune out specifically because they are being featured, and likely main eventing, in 2011. I know which group I fall into, and I would postulate that it is the bigger group than the nostalgia buffs, and I think the BFG numbers will prove it. I guess we'll see.

This is inaccurate as well. The WWE has shown if you feature and push the correct guys, people will come on board. But Jack Swagger, John Morrison, and the like prove just featuring and pushing young guys will not always bring people on board. In fact, the single greatest way to get a wrestler over with fans is not a push, but rather long-term exposure in front of an audience. The longer you work in front of an audience, the more likely they are to accept you.

Point taken with Swagger, but let's face it, not all pushes will work out. They tried Swagger, it didn't work out, back to the mid card, and that's that. Still waiting for the push for JoMo, although I think they missed the boat here and it's too late to push him now. What I am saying is if they are going to have Crimson tear through the ranks in an unbeaten streak, and speculate him as an opponent for Goldberg, they must see at least something in him. This is at least worthy of somewhere on the poster. I'm not saying he should be the focal point, or that the fogies shouldn't be there at all, I'm simply saying that he and Styles belong on there somewhere. Sure, give him a gradual exposure to the spotlight, but be sure to expose him, rather than omitting him altogether.

The biggest show of the year is not about featuring unproven guys, it's about putting on your most exciting, most thrilling, most interesting and best event possible. It doesn't matter who it features, as long as it features wrestlers people care about in matches they want to see.

As for the particular discussion on Crimson, I haven't watched him enough to tell one way or another. I just thought I'd throw some facts into the discussion.

I never suggested featuring him, all I said was put the guy on the poster. If he is going to be the potential future, at least put him in the corner of the poster, somewhat associated with Angle, who he should be facing in the main event. Are you telling me that Hogan, Flair, and Sting will provide anything "exciting, thrilling, or interesting?". Don't put on the same blinders that the TNA brass appear to wear. Look behind BFG. If BFG is the biggest event of the year, why not feature someone who can still walk and talk.

 

[JJYanks121]

Wow, thanks for including me in the discussion guys. So glad my thoughts mean something...........

Anywhoozer, I'm still siding with habs here, but not necessarily on the "it has to be Crimson" thing. I'm just vehemently opposed to this idea that "names draw" and you can't draw with new guys. Heck, it's that attitude that allowed the WWF to stomp a mudhole into WCW's proverbial ass.

Let's talk 1998-1999 where the tides change. While WCW was putting "names" on every poster, trotting out Hogan, Nash, brought back Warrior, Randy Savage, etc, but there was a problem. By this time, everyone had seen the old guys. These old guys were around all the time and this "nostalgia sells" thing, it dries up. People have paid to see them once, they won't all the time. At the same time, the WWF was stripping itself of former stars, leaving literally one superstar that was ever a champion anywhere meaningful (The Undertaker). The guys that were selling Pay Per Views and were on the posters were Steve Austin, Kane, the new Mr. McMahon character, then The Rock, Mankind, and Triple H. Not one was truly a "name" before 1998, but yet WWF business was rising to heights never seen before while WCW was sinking faster than ODB's tits once she takes her bra off. Why?

Pretty simply, people get tired of the same names. You hear it from plenty of people that they tire of John Cena today since he's been main eventing since 2005. It's not about age which is a common misconception, but about "main event age" in the sense that "how long have you been doing it?" CM Punk is a year or two younger than Cena, and while both are young, Punk is much hotter at the moment because it's new and fresh to have him there. Batista was basically the same age as Triple H in 2005 when he was put over, but it wasn't about putting over a "young guy", it was about putting over a "new guy". Now, the new guy can't be at an age where his body won't allow him to be productive, but you always have to be looking towards the future. That's what habs is saying and he's right.

At what point will the Crimson's, Roode's, Morgan's, Gunner's, and the like be "draws"? Certainly tough when your shows don't sell a ton to begin with right? But those shows are "selling" based on telling fans to check out guys they grew up on, not to check out the future of the business. You say that it's nice to have those guys on the card but you came for the names, but what if the WWF had a few names like a Hennig, Savage, and whatever, and they main evented those names and put them as their selling points in 1998? What if instead of Rock vs. Austin at WM15, you had Savage vs. Barry Windham because those guys DRAW since they have a legacy in the business? You'd have Rock and Austin on the card........in the midcard, but they wouldn't be stars because they aren't established. That logic is so flawed, it's not even funny.

You have to build towards the future and you always have to think that way. Yes, there will be flops along the way. I'm talking to you Jack Swagger and Vladimir Koslov. However, for every flop, there is a success, but that only happens if you allow a crowd to get behind a guy, see that this is happening, and subsequently give the guy the ball to run with. If you say that "he's not a draw" and label him that way, how can he ever become one?

So here's how this pertains to the argument at hand. You have Crimson who is being touted as a big deal moving forward. However,, we don't know yet whether he will havea prominent role in BFG or not. For all we know, Angle will injure him at No Surrender and he won't even compete on the show. If he does though, and he is in the main event, he belongs on the poster. There's not excuse for not having the guys in your top two matches on the card, none. If he's not in one of those matches, it's no big deal and he doesn't need to be on there. That's why Styles isn't on it. We won't get into it, but Styles sure as shit ain't main eventing so he hasn't earned that spot. I said it before and I'll say it again, the guys who are main eventing belong on the poster and if Crimson is main eventing and he's not on there, that's embarassing. My guess at this point though is that he's not. We shall see in few weeks though.

 

[It's Damn Real!]

Roode and Storm are already on the poster.

 

[X]

I'm going to laugh my fucking ass off when Hogan gets back in the ring and then immediately injures himself. I'm going to cry with delicious laughter.

Watching the show now. X-Division gauntlet was fun but too quick and the gauntlet gimmick never really works. Loved seeing all the new blood in there though. Christ I wish they'd just boot half the fuckin' roster they have right now and give those new guys TV time to get over and do their thing instead.

Flair's promo was amazing as always. Him and Sting wrestling again though? Yeah, that's going to flat out suck. These guys wrestled ten years ago for some nostalgia and it was bad then, now it's going to just be embarrassing to watch.

Angle as a heel...makes no sense. Like half the shit in this company. Just another ******ed swerve attempt.

 

[Gelgarin]

Yeah, so I watched the show. Good show. Flair was the undeniable highlight, unbelievable entertainment value.

 

[hatehabsforever]

LOL. Actually, selling thousands of tickets does mean Sting and Angle draw. It's exactly what it means, in fact. TNA's "die hard" fan base live in Orlando and Tennessee. The rest of the country where they tour are simply fans. You are marginalizing the entire argument by labeling them all "die hard" to somehow prove they would buy tickets even if Shark Boy v. Curry Man was the main event, which is quite disingenuous and frankly impossible for you to know. That said, I'd venture a healthy guess that very few tickets would be sold to an event that was completely devoid of Angle, Sting and the rest of the veterans on the roster. A very healthy one at that too, if you go by the reported draws for many of their house shows that Angle, Sting and the vets don't work.

I don't recall stating that Sting or Angle don't draw. My point was more along the lines of not having to fall back upon guys like these exclusively to draw. Use them as a draw, but start to build upon other guys as a draw. Angle has been a draw for some time now. Sting has been a proven draw for even longer. And Flair and Hogan have been drawing for a really really long time. For emphasis, let me repeat, a REALLY long time. No one is suggesting they aren't a draw, that would be silly. I just don't think that TNA can continue to depend upon nostalgic tools to draw into the future. Let's face it, Hogan and Flair are probably going to stop wrestling at some point in the next decade or two. They need someone to come behind them. Time to start building up someone else. Someone like AJ Styles or Crimson. That's all I'm saying. Put the fogies on the card, but for the love of Jesus, not in the main event, and not front and centre on the poster.

The die hards? Yeah, they'll show, but you won't have nearly the same gate draw as you would if those vets were on the show.

Again, keep the vets on the show, just don't have the entire show be about them as they've been doing for decades.

As to your more direct questions, no, I would not come out to see Gunner or Crimson. I'd come out to see Sting, Angle, Flair and Hogan and then be happy that Crimson, Styles, etc. were also on the card. The last PPV I went to was Hard Justice in 2007 or 2008 when Booker T was main eventing. Why'd I go? To see Sting, Booker T and Christian Cage.

Let me draw an analogy. I live in eastern Canada in a city which is too small to feature a PPV or an episode of RAW, SD, or even iMPACT. We get house shows, but that's about it, and they are sporadic. If I want to see live
pro wrestling, I have to go find it, because it isn't coming to me.

Some group is currently touring called CWI (I think). They are coming to our region, or possibly have already been here, not sure. They are featuring Hogan, Scott Steiner, Tatanka, Jake Roberts, and a few other relics. When my friends approached me to go see them, my knee jerk reaction was no. No interest in seeing old guys past their primes. Now if they were coming, along with Styles, Crimson, or some new blood like this, I'd be first in line. Sort of the reverse reaction to you. I'd go see these young guys, and enjoy a trip down memory line while there, rather than the reverse.

I posed the question to Sly and I'll put it to you. Which is the bigger number, the number of casual fans who will come out specifically because of Hogan and Flair, or the number of fans who will avoid the event specifically because of them?

As to your comment about WWE showing you can push young guys, you conveniently forget that WWE is a brand with 20 years worth of legacy and history to help sell bags of dog shit labeled as Vince's Brownies. It doesn't matter who they put out there — with the WWE machine behind anyone, he/she can get over because they are being put into a dominant position in a company who's fans aren't half as volatile or unforgiving as TNA's can be. So no, WWE has not proven that you can push young stars and fans will show. They've proven that they can push young stars and their fans will show.

Typical TNA negativity and rhetoric. Sure it's true, but that doesn't mean that TNA cannot at least try to improve itself on a go forward basis by pushing youth over nostalgia.

Who is not pushing and featuring him? He's been given an undefeated streak, is being put into a prominent program with Kurt f'n Angle and has wins over a number of "names" in TNA. Now all of a sudden because he's not on a poster he's not being pushed or featured? My how black and white that is...

I didn't say they weren't pushing or featuring him at all. By your own earlier admission, they don't get a lot of broad range appeal on Spike TV or in the impact zone. If they want to show to a greater audience and attract casual viewership, they have to feature him on their biggest PPV of

This is the biggest show of the year. You don't fuck around and experiment with "potential" at a time like this. Worry about that for one of the more meaningless PPV's like Final Resolution.

The thing is, if you don't utilize the biggest PPV of the year to avail of the opportunity to showcase your developing talent, they aren't even going to tune in to the more meaningless PPV's.

You obviously don't if you can get this up in arms over him not being on a damn poster.

Trust me I am hardly up in arms over it as I am not watching regardless. I haven't watched a TNA PPV since BFG last year, and I don't see that changing anytime soon.

But that's funny, Kurt Angle and Sting are now retired Hall-of-Famers? I take it neither can go in the ring anymore, since you are obviously comparing them to men who can't. That argument is horseshit because the comparison is way off base. HHH was not "young" when Cena was being pushed. He was a veteran, just like Angle. You marginalize every point when it works in your favor, man.

I have no issue with Angle or even Sting, the focus of my criticism has been Hogan and Flair, guys who are clearly too old and should be nowhere near the inside of the ring.

 

[X]

RVD/Styles was going well enough until the finish. Nothing extraordinary though. I'm totally down to see him and Lynn face off at Bound For Glory in a hardcore match. That should be a lot of fun if that's where they're headed.

 

[X]

Two more random observations:

1) Crimson is awful on the mic. Keep the mic far, far away from him from now on.
2) Kurt Angle as a heel still doesn't make any fucking sense at all. I'm down to see him run through the young roster in TNA, but for fuck's sake TNA, put some god damn thought into it before you turn one of your biggest guys face or heel. Don't just do it just for the sake of "Oh he's been face for like 6 months, that's too long, must turn him heel now for an awesome SWERVE! Everyone loves SWERVES! SWERVE! SWERVE SWERRRRVVVEEEEEEESSSS!"

God I wish a piano would just fall out of the sky and kill Russo. And Hogan. Bischoff....eh, he can stay I guess.

 

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Okay, just finished the show. Mexican America with the tag belts? It's nice they're finally off of Beer Money, but man, what a terrible team to give them to. The match itself was the typical half-thought out overbooked mess of an Impact main event. Someone needs to explain to me why the fuck Mexican America would align themselves with a white man who is very clearly mocking their entire culture and way of life, the one thing their entire group and stable is supposed to be about. And what does Jarrett have against Beer Money? But no, more importantly, WHY THE FUCK WOULD MEXICAN AMERICA WANT JEFF JARRETT'S HELP?! Are they supposed to be mentally ******ed or something?

Show was decent at points, the wrestling was nice in the gauntlet and I liked a few of the segments (mainly those involving Flair being batshit crazy AKA Ric Flair) but overall not a very strong effort. Definitely not the worst Impact I've seen in the last 6 months, but not exactly good either. Mediocre would be the appropriate word I think.