General WWE Complaining & PG Rating Thread

[yoshi_doce2006]

Vince doesn't like anything he didn't create. He will never do anything with the ECW brand other than what he is doing with it now because he didn't create it. He leaves Christian buried not because Christian isn't one of the top 10 performers in North America but because he doesn't like Christian and he had great success in his time with the WWE but he showed what he could really do in TNA. Yea Vince created the character but it was TNA that showcased it. Vince didn't like that. If Vince was smart about Christian he would have put Christian on Smackdown and pushed his ass to the moon to compete with Hardy, Edge, and Punk. But since Christian became a big name elsewhere he will be buried for the forseeable future.

Then you have Randy Orton. His character is the worst to hold a world title I have seen in years. His gimmick is dull, creative has made his mic skills non-existent, his style is stale and if you want to be honest about it he couldn't carry his father's jock when it comes to overall skill in the ring. However Vince CREATED Randy Orton and because he created the guy and put so much into him when he was young Vince will push his ass to the moon.

In the 90's you had small stars and jobbers like Stunning Steve Austin, Oz, Damien Stryker, and Terra Ryzing in WCW. When Vince got ahold of them he created megastars called Stone Cold Steve Austin, Diesel, Edge, and Triple H out of them.

As you recall Dusty Rhodes, one of the biggest stars in the history of Wrestling never won a WWE title. Ric Flair won 2 World Championships only because he was the biggest star in the business at the time that was not named Hulk Hogan.

If Vince doesn't feel comfortable pushing MVP, Kofi, the Miz, and those young guys he has got to swallow his pride and let guys that were successful elsewhere like Christian go to Raw and give his product a fresh look. Otherwise Raw will continue to plummet. he did it when he first bought the company and he should do it now if he feels those he created are not ready.

 

[The Brain]

They made Extreme Championship Wrestling, which was a fantastic product with the extremeness, to Extremely Crappy Wrestling, which is like plain old boring wrestling matches and promos, but seems a little interesting with Christian on the product and Hart Dynasty. The original ECW was awesome, why did they take it away?

Let me bring up the Donald Trump thing, he sucks. He's just a freaking popularity magnet to the WWE. Everybody knows it's a freakin storyline. EVERYBODY.

The original ECW has been gone for nearly a decade now. It's time to let it go. Paul Heyman caught lightning in a bottle. It was the right time in wrestling and society in general for that type of promotion to succeed. For the first time in three years I think the current ECW is a decent show. It serves a good purpose getting some young talent valuable experience working on tv before getting called up to one of the bigger shows. They just shouldn't call it ECW.

Doesn't EVERYBODY know that EVERYTHING on WWE is a storyline?

 

[JohnnyB41]

GAAAHHHH.....I am soo tired of everyone complaining about WWE. People, if you dont like it, dont watch it. Its really that easy. I've always been a fan and always will be. I love WWE and TNA and will continue to watch both, no matter how bad it gets, because I just love wrestling. Now I have some things to say about all the negativity.

So the best show is on fridays....couldve sworn all I've been hearing is people want more wrestling and less shitty storylines.

So what ECW isnt that great...thats why its only an hour long, and features newcomers and mid-card veterans. Its not supposed to be wrestlemania-caliber every week.

Raw does not suck....its far from it. Sure we have seen HHH vs Orton a lot, but there is a reason for that....they are the best right now. Nobody bitched about austin vs mcmahon at every ppv.

Kennedy and umaga were fired because they were useless. Why would WWE need a great talking injury-prone ok at best wrestler and generic guy from somoa # 57?

I for one do NOT miss the cruiserweights. Give me a kofi vs regal match over jimmy wang yang vs jamie noble every day.

I LOVE the trump storyline. It is unexpected, fresh, and nobody has any clue where it will go.

Those are my opinions folks....just the thoughts of a life long fan.

 

[ratedrko13]

i agree with (The Brain) about ecw, it serves its purpose for the new talent. Yet they shouldnt call it ecw. I thought this weeks raw was pretty good, yet its been slow lately. Otherwise i like wwe right now, to an extent!

 

[RKOhead84]

JOHNNYB41 THANK YOU!!!!!!! its as simple as that. dont watch it. we all know wwe isnt as great as it could be right now, but week in week out writing about it on here is not going to change anything. ive been a wwe fan hogan vs warriot VI and im not about to give up on it now. anyone remember the years before the attitude era? nothing stays on top forever. give it time, and before you know it, wwe will be back on top.

 

[Blifferd221]

raw is at its best in a while, i dont know why people are still complaining about it. alot of major things happened on raw this past monday and yet people are still complaining. idk why... i would seriously like to know why

 

[The Love Song Writer]

I disagree with anything that suggests ECW is boring that's a good solid hour of wrestling. Not one hour of wrestling another 30 mins of promos and 30 mins of Raw hype like smackdown. It's also not 1 and a half hours of repetitive bullshit like Raw is thank god for Santino and the Miz saving this show for me

 

[JohnnyB41]

Im not encouraging people to not watch wrestling, though I know it seems that way. I want everyone to watch it and enjoy it. Im just sayin that if youre watching it just to find something wrong with it, then dont. Id much rather see someone watch and then talk about how to make it better than always focus on the negative.

 

[CuddleBuns84]

Vince always has big mistakes but always finds a way to get over the hump, and create something powerful to get pass those mistakes. Yes, the WCW invasion didn't go over to well, but then he delivered the Rock vs. Hogan at Wrestlemania. The XFL suck hard, but it was only for one season, it broke even, and Vince called it quits, and was able to get those guys some money. Donald Trump was pretty big in the USFL, and those guys didn't see a dime over Trump got screwed by the jury. So overall, what is Vince's biggest mistake? This a tough one, because his mistakes haven't cost that much money, and his company is pacing 1 billion a year... WWE Films! My goodness, these are cheesy and horrible films! And they throw in WWE superstars into this films that could have a chance! If Vince would just hire regular actors for these films, and make it something for up and coming actors, then he could produce 15 films a year, and market some hot sexy actresses, and take on some tough projects!

 

[ipswichicon80]

smackdown and ECW appearer to be in good shape. The main problem I have with WWE is the Raw main event scene. Let's look at the end of last weeks Raw. Randy Orton injures Batastia. outgoing GM Vickie(and why was she treated so badly after being the best GM since Bishoff?, Was it really necessecery?I hate when WWE does crap like this) makes a ruling that if big Dave fails to answer the ten count he forfits the title to Orton. So at the end of the show Orton waits in the ring, and, when Batista doesn't show instructs the ref to start a ten count. The ref does and when he gets to 9 the ambulance appears. So he stops the count, despite the fact Batista is not in the ring and couldn't make it there before the ref gets to ten. Then the door opens and it's Triple H. So Batistia isn't in the areana and is not going to be able to answer the count. The ref still doesn't finish the count.why?Maybe he feels the same way wwe creative does. Namely that who the champion is irrealevent compared to the return of Triple H after, what, 6 weeks. So the show goes off air and no one knows who the champion is! Then the following week they repeat the footage, including Vickies ruling, and then show us that ruling was not ahered to, and hold up the title. No explanation was givien as to why Orton did not win the title by forfit.

They could have simply got Vince to say he had overuled the outgoing GM, but they didn't bother. I expect this sort of silly booking from TNA not WWE.

Donald Trump has bought raw! I'll ignore all the reasons why this doesn't make any sense(the WWE title is on a show the WWE no longer owns, ok now I'll ignore them). The PG rating indicates the show is now being booked more to appeal to kids IE People who have no idea who Donald Trump is. He has only appeared in one WWE stroryline so is not really over with the 18-34 demographic of wrestling fans. So what's the point of having him as owner if half of your audience doesn't know who he is and the other half don't care about him? It's just being done for main stream attetion and short term gain, and IMO will not improve the product. WWE seems obbsessed with short term gain at the moment, what with a new champion being crowned almost every month(I believe the the world title's have changed hands 12 times this year, 8 since mania and thats not counting the ECW title).

 

[ratedrko13]

well i don't hate it but i could see some things change but that's not my decision. Alot of people think the wwe sucks right now, but why?
I think ecw is good for developmental talent and that smackdown has some real wrestling going on, not to mention raw's upcoming surprises with trump and wwe getting new writers. I am not saying that wwe is perfect but i don't think it sucks, but give me your take!

 

[Ambiguous Turd]

Poll Results as of right now, out of the current sample of 119 people:



Apathetic towards product: 50 (42%)

Very Dissatisfied with product: 41 (34%)

Very Satisfied with product: 28 (24%)



So, we have the majority of the sample who are neither satisfied or dissatisfied with the product, and don't feel very strongly about it one way or another. 42% of the sample.

34% of the sample are extremely dissatisfied with the product overall. The clear majority of upset fans are Attitude Era fans, however the Hogan Era fans interestingly enough, are right behind them. We don't have a very large sample of New Generation fans to base their opinions on.

Only 24% of the sample can say with confidence that they are Very Satisfied with what they see on TV today.


Now, where as I feel a sample of 100 people is decent, I would prefer to have at least a sample of 150, or even 200 people. But, 100 is at least respectable.

Over the Internet, I see a lot of very vociferous fans doing their best to shout down the detractors to the product, seemingly making it seem like the number of people who are thrilled with today's product is bigger than what it really is. Hopefully this sample will perhaps put some things in perspective with these people, because clearly, contrary to their own beliefs, they are not the majority of fans. They aren't even in the Middle of the pack. They are the Minority of fans.

When you tell the detractors that "We are the problem", the sample seems to imply otherwise, and that the people who are "Very Satisfied" with the product are indeed the odd ones out.

So when people criticize the product of how it can be improved upon, perhaps the Very Satisfied crowd should take a little more humble approach to some of the people making the suggestions, as opposed to shouting down opinions, and exclaiming how the product is so much better today, when clearly the majority of people actually disagree with that viewpoint.

Again, it is interesting to note that the second most dissatisfied group of fans are the Hogan Era fans. I see supporters of today's PG Era try to make comparisons between this Era and the Hogan Era, and with me being one of those disgruntled Hogan Era fans, I can say with absolute certainty that today's Era is nothing like the Hogan Era.

I can deal with the Hogan Era, as I loved it. I can deal with the Attitude Era, as I loved that, as well. The Post Attitude Era was okay, but not as good as the Attitude Era, in my view. I can even tolerate the New Generation Era. However, this current Era is by far my least favorite Era since I began watching wrestling. And the reason I feel that is, is because it isn't entertaining anymore.

The things that used to entertain me throughout the Eras is all gone.

This particular Era, as I've stated many times, is a cross between Ring of Honor and WCW. This Era is designed and is catered towards people who watch wrestling STRICTLY for the wrestling itself. No storylines are needed. No gimmicks or characters are really needed (just personalities like we have today). All you have to do to satisfy fans of this Era is put two people in the ring and let them have a good match.

And that doesn't appeal to me. That wasn't why I started watching wrestling and not why I became a fan of wrestling.

I became a fans of wrestling because of the characters and gimmicks. I became a fan of wrestling because of the storylines (which most people on the roster were at least involved in some sort of feud in the Hogan Era, although the Attitude Era had the most involved storylines of all the Eras). I became a fan of wrestling because of the people behind the headsets who entertained me. People like Gorilla Monsoon, Jesse Ventura, Vince Mcmahon, and Bobby Heenan. You could always count on those 4 working together to make you laugh and have a great time, overall. I became a fan because of the ringside managers who you could always count on to interject themselves in a match, only to get theirs at the end of the match.

I became a fan because of the variety of feuds that were given to us, as opposed to the same boring feuds being recycled over and over and over again. How many times do we need to see Triple H take on Orton and John Cena wrestle Edge? It is always the same small group of guys in the Main Event all the time. At least in the Hogan Era, where Hogan was the draw and was typically always in the Main Event, at least his opponents varied and he didn't go back and wrestle someone in a feud who he had already feuded with.

Where as I like the idea of separate Rosters, and differentiating the tone of the product offered on each of those shows ... the current WWE does not have enough stars to maintain two main rosters at this point in time. Raw is suffering from a major lack of heels. It is Orton, and his two lackeys, who aren't even Main Eventers. And that is about all Raw has for heels.

Smackdown isn't much better. We have Jericho (who has been relegated back to the Midcard) and Edge as the Main Event heels, with Jericho floating back and forth. Tweener CM Punk. Then we have Taker (who only wrestles Part Time) and Jeff Hardy (who may be leaving) as the Main Event.

WWE is in bad shape at the moment, but they definitely don't have the talent depth to support Roster Splits at this particular moment.


I think the next poll we should concentrate on is to define what exactly the WWE fans who are not satisfied with the PG Era do not enjoy about this particular Era ... so we can start focusing on where WWE is losing these fans.

Ironically enough, this is stuff WWE should be doing. But we all know Vince McMahon's philosophy ... "If you have a problem with my product, you are the problem. I'm right and you're wrong."

 

[Alex(Killer Of Dreams & Legends)]

Okay Every one knows that Raw is Lacking something Right now . But what is It ?
Is it the Lack of Main eventers ? ( no raw is pretty set on that )

Is it the Lack of creativeness ? ( could be because the whole title scene has been predictable but the Trump angle could be something good )

Is it the Lack of Heels? ( I think this is it cause if you look at it besides orton who is the other big heel. The big show , and as you can see the bookers don't like him that much ex specially if he keeps loosing to cena and takes every ones finishing move this past monday without executing his own. So where dose Raw go if Orton gets Hurt ? We are stuck with the Big show in the title picture . But i think that they can solve this in many ways , push the miz more or turn mvp heel)

what are your thoughts what does raw lack?

 

[Paradox]

You are on to something with the heels. There is no way that I want to see Big Show as the main Heel on raw. Yeah he looked good last week, but that's the first time that he's looked good in a long time.

To be honest after this last week, I'm wondering were they are going to with with somethings, but for the most part I'm happy.(Besides Triple H vs Orton.) The only thing that I think is lacking is a midcard feud. Hardy is back to being healthy so maybe Hardy Kingston feud could work, or Kendrick, he's not doing anything.

I think they have gold with Cena vs Miz. I really think that they will push Miz to ME and make him the next big heel. And a feud with Cena is just the thing to do it.

Your right it does seem to be lacking something... when does HBK come back again?

 

[The Mizard of Oz]

RAW is SET on main eventers?

With Michaels and Boretista injured, I count only three (Orton, HHH, Cena). I really don't consider the Big Show to be a credible main eventer, and the fact that a guy that jobs every pay-per-view was the fourth guy in the Fatal Four Way Monday should tell one all they need to know about the RAW main event scene.

The return of HBK will help the main event scene, but even then, it will be 3 faces and only one heel. Orton's act is already tiresome. They need to elevate someone like the Miz. A feud with Cena gives them the perfect opportunity to do that, assuming they do it right. This Monday was NOT a good sign, as they SHOULD have had Miz eliminate Cena from the battle royal.

I really don't see many other heel options that could look like credible main eventers. The Big Show is pretty much buried...Priceless has a LONG way to go, as we've been watching them do nothing but get their asses handed to them for months.

Two ideas that I do have are Kane and Goldust. Why bring Kane back on SmackDown? They need him far less than RAW does. Bring him back, have him destroy everyone for a few weeks, or months, and he will be a believable, legitimate heel. No more jobbing him to mid-carders. He has to squash mid-carders if he's to have any credibility.

As for Goldust, have him grow tired of being a joke, beat the everloving shit out of Hornswaggle, and then revert back to his sadistic, homoerotic gimmick that he broke into the WWF with. RAW doesn't just need more heels...it needs INTERESTING heels.

 

[D-Man]

RAW is SET on main eventers?

With Michaels and Boretista injured, I count only three (Orton, HHH, Cena). I really don't consider the Big Show to be a credible main eventer, and the fact that a guy that jobs every pay-per-view was the fourth guy in the Fatal Four Way Monday should tell one all they need to know about the RAW main event scene.

The return of HBK will help the main event scene, but even then, it will be 3 faces and only one heel. Orton's act is already tiresome. They need to elevate someone like the Miz. A feud with Cena gives them the perfect opportunity to do that, assuming they do it right. This Monday was NOT a good sign, as they SHOULD have had Miz eliminate Cena from the battle royal.

I really don't see many other heel options that could look like credible main eventers. The Big Show is pretty much buried...Priceless has a LONG way to go, as we've been watching them do nothing but get their asses handed to them for months.

Two ideas that I do have are Kane and Goldust. Why bring Kane back on SmackDown? They need him far less than RAW does. Bring him back, have him destroy everyone for a few weeks, or months, and he will be a believable, legitimate heel. No more jobbing him to mid-carders. He has to squash mid-carders if he's to have any credibility.

As for Goldust, have him grow tired of being a joke, beat the everloving shit out of Hornswaggle, and then revert back to his sadistic, homoerotic gimmick that he broke into the WWF with. RAW doesn't just need more heels...it needs INTERESTING heels.

Wait a minute... WHAT?!? Goldust?!?

First of all, I love how another Orton-hater is voicing their opinion about how he should be send back to the showers and no longer in the main event scene. It just baffles me how much people despise Orton, yet he is such an effective heel. And if you disagree, just LISTEN to the crowd when his music hits. The boos are deafening, hence a great heel. I could give two shits if all of you people think his promos are boring. The fact of the matter is that he is a great ring technician, he handles the main event scene well, he is extremely effective in his mannerisms and facial expressions, he can easily hang with the best faces on Raw, and he has a total-package look and physique. The guy is a credible main event heel. If all of you would get your heads out of your asses and look at those characteristics, you'd all realize that he draws major money. Everyone wants to see get him get his ass kicked and they'll all pay the money to see it.

Secondly, you're a Batista hater, as well. Just to keep this one short, look at my above paragraph about Orton, turn it into a conversation about an uber-face on Raw, and that should say it all. The guy is ripped, the crowd goes crazy for him, his mic skills are tolerable, and he is a legitimate contender. People want to pay money to see him kick Randy Orton's ass. He's a credible main event babyface and he draws money.

The Miz will eventually have his time and get elevated to the main event scene, but he has to work his way up first. I think the WWE is doing a TREMENDOUS job in slowly building him up to be a truly hated heel. The guy oozes charisma and has all of the tools necessary to become a credible main event heel, but the WWE can't just throw him up there just because some people are "bored of Randy Orton". If they shove the Miz down our throats as a main event heel too early, the crowd will lose interest in him and he'll fall flat and become stale immediately. Have some patience...

Remember everyone, the WWE is in a rebuiling phase right now. They are building stars for the future and preparing all of us for a new era of professional wrestling. This process isn't going to be filled with moonlight and roses... there will be bumps along the way. To make an omelette you have to break some eggs. Even though the WWE is going through dozens of eggs right now, I know that a killer omelette is coming our way in due time. But, until then, we all need to tolerate what we're watching or CHANGE THE FUCKING CHANNEL.

 

[Ambiguous Turd]

Remember everyone, the WWE is in a rebuiling phase right now.

If Vince did his job all along, and was continuously grooming new stars the whole time, while providing focus on the midcard, we wouldn't have this awkward "rebuilding phase" right now, in which he is rushing to get new talent propelled to the Main Event, as quickly as possible.

People like Bret Hart, Shawn Michaels, and Steve Austin were given virtually seemless transitions to the Main Event, without it being as awkward as what they are going through today. Why? Because Vince did a fantastic job concentrating on the Mid card and developing his talent when they were going through the ranks. Which ultimately led to those guys very smoothly blending in with the Main Event. Unlike today where we see the Miz being pushed to the moon out of nowhere, simply due to a lack of heels on Raw.

That's why when WWE detractors complain about Vince not focusing as much on the Midcard or as much on Tag Team wrestling for new stars, they aren't just griping about this stuff for their health. If Vince concentrated on both of these divisions with new stars, his Main Eventers would enter that division a lot more smoothly, as compared to what he is trying to do today.

Even though the WWE is going through dozens of eggs right now, I know that a killer omelette is coming our way in due time.

You know, or you "hope"? I see no killer omelette of any kind, and actually see this as false hope. I see absolutely nothing special in the Main Eventers being groomed that can get them anywhere near the success of a Shawn Michaels, Undertaker, Steve Austin, or even a Triple H and John Cena.

I like Morrison, but he just isn't a Shawn Michaels. I like MVP, but he is definitely not in and nor do I see him even having the potential to reach even Cena's league. CM Punk, you can hear the crickets chirping when he comes out.

And the real problem is that Vince doesn't give the fans enough reasons to actually care one way or another about these talents. The way he used to do that is through storylines like in the Attitude Era, or through their gimmicks, like he did in the Hogan Era. But now, since we have done away with gimmicks AND storylines, that is my opinion why there are so many apathetic wrestling fans.

None of that has anything to do with the "rebuilding" process you mentioned. Rather, it has to do with the Creative process in place, on the part of Vince. If Vince wanted to make that "rebuilding process" you reference successful, he would actually work towards putting those names in storylines and expand their characters to get people to actually care about them.

You can compete in 5 matches, 50 matches, 100 matches, or 100,000 matches. None of that means diddly squat, unless you find a way to get the talent to connect with the fans. So that is why I think that "rebuilding process" line used by so many people is in some ways true, but still not being effectively executed by Vince to actually make a difference ... since he still is NOT doing things to get the fans to actually care about these people.

But, until then, we all need to tolerate what we're watching or CHANGE THE FUCKING CHANNEL.

And CHANGING THE CHANNEL, isn't a bad thing either, people. Remember that and don't feel bad or guilty if that is what you feel the need to do. My own personal opinion is if you want to see the product go in a different direction, then this is actually the very best thing you could possibly do.

 

[The Mizard of Oz]

Wait a minute... WHAT?!? Goldust?!?

And what's wrong with that idea? The man can still wrestle, still has great mic skills, and is somehow moderately over even though he's currently a comedy character that hangs out with a midget. Goldust, circa 1995, was a GREAT heel. And if they allowed him to go back to that persona, he'd be a great heel today.

First of all, I love how another Orton-hater is voicing their opinion about how he should be send back to the showers and no longer in the main event scene. It just baffles me how much people despise Orton, yet he is such an effective heel. And if you disagree, just LISTEN to the crowd when his music hits. The boos are deafening, hence a great heel. I could give two shits if all of you people think his promos are boring. The fact of the matter is that he is a great ring technician, he handles the main event scene well, he is extremely effective in his mannerisms and facial expressions, he can easily hang with the best faces on Raw, and he has a total-package look and physique. The guy is a credible main event heel. If all of you would get your heads out of your asses and look at those characteristics, you'd all realize that he draws major money. Everyone wants to see get him get his ass kicked and they'll all pay the money to see it.

What negative thing did I say about Randy Orton? Not a damn thing in that particular post. But, on the topic of Orton, he has been booked like shit since WrestleMania. Why would someone pay to see him get his ass kicked whenever they can see it for free every Monday night? Even with two other men fighting by his side, he's gotten his ass kicked by a 60-year old retired wrestler and a 40+ year old non-wrestler that's the son of his boss. What happened to the sadistic, badass Randy Orton that handcuffed Triple H to the ropes and then destroyed and kissed his wife? THAT Randy Orton will draw money. The Randy Orton that does nothing but get his ass kicked WILL NOT.

Secondly, you're a Batista hater, as well. Just to keep this one short, look at my above paragraph about Orton, turn it into a conversation about an uber-face on Raw, and that should say it all. The guy is ripped, the crowd goes crazy for him, his mic skills are tolerable, and he is a legitimate contender. People want to pay money to see him kick Randy Orton's ass. He's a credible main event babyface and he draws money.

An injury prone behemoth with very little ring skills and no charisma whatsoever. He's Ahmed Johnson with friends in high places. Ahmed was pretty over too. Doesn't make him a good wrestler. And I would actually argue that Batista's many injuries have SAVED his spot. The fans get sick of Cena, who has infinitely more mic and in-ring skills than Batista. Maybe the fans would turn on Batista if they saw him more than four months a year.

The Miz will eventually have his time and get elevated to the main event scene, but he has to work his way up first. I think the WWE is doing a TREMENDOUS job in slowly building him up to be a truly hated heel. The guy oozes charisma and has all of the tools necessary to become a credible main event heel, but the WWE can't just throw him up there just because some people are "bored of Randy Orton". If they shove the Miz down our throats as a main event heel too early, the crowd will lose interest in him and he'll fall flat and become stale immediately. Have some patience...

Randy Orton is the only main event heel they have. Is there another heel on RAW, besides the Big Show, that even GETS a reaction when his music plays? The Miz is their only choice.

Remember everyone, the WWE is in a rebuiling phase right now. They are building stars for the future and preparing all of us for a new era of professional wrestling. This process isn't going to be filled with moonlight and roses... there will be bumps along the way. To make an omelette you have to break some eggs. Even though the WWE is going through dozens of eggs right now, I know that a killer omelette is coming our way in due time. But, until then, we all need to tolerate what we're watching or CHANGE THE FUCKING CHANNEL.

I really don't get how you arrive at this conclusion. The only new star they are building (correctly) is the Miz. And I guess Kofi as well, though I don't ever see him as a headliner. Priceless has been booked to look like jobbers with famous last names for months now. It's basically the same old shit every week. And running the same old shit week after week is NOT how you build new stars. It's how you stay stagnant.

 

[ChristianforWWEchampion]

right now,i think that ecw is better than raw...raw has all the main eventers(except edge)on one place which makes it boring...why mvp,matt or miz don't get a chance at wwe title.that will make raw better and fresher...i wish that cena hhh orton and others battle for ic and tag team titles and mvp,kofi,matt and other midcarders battle for wwe title...or even better send show hhh orton cena batista to ecw and christian swagger bourne and hart dynasty to raw

 

[Ambiguous Turd]

This is a very interesting commentary that I found on another board, that was posted on 411mania.com. It brings to the spotlight the very things I, and many others, have been echoing about the current product. And I think it holds merit. And that is why when the IWC gets mad at me for critiquing the WWE, when they absolutely love the current WWE, I don't get discouraged. Because I know the numbers speak for themselves and that the IWC, generally speaking, does not speak for the Casuals.

My only disagreement is WWE changing directions on all of its shows, as I feel that there should be one wrestling show for fans who want "just the wrestling" should be able to enjoy.

But the question is for which show should that be?

Raw has to go back to at least somewhat resembling what it used to be. If Vince wants ratings back in the 4's on a regular basis, like he used to have, there is just no other way. He has to give the fans what they want. So I do advocate the edgy programming returning to Raw, and to have that show storyline-based.

Smackdown, I would like to see as a product that represents the Hogan Era and 80's style of wrestling. Traditional Faces and Heels. Managers brought back. Face/Heel Commentator teams. Tag Team Wrestling brought back to prominence (actually, I would like that across the board). And gear the show towards Families. This show would have storylines, but the characters, especially on this show, should go back to gimmicks. No, not TL Hopper or The Goon. But gimmicks like The Big Boss Man, Mr. Perfect, The Model Rick Martel, Brutus the Barber Beefcake, and characters like that.

Therefore, both the Main Shows are representative of what is generally considered to be the two most popular Eras in wrestling: The Hogan Era and The Attitude Era. That way, Smackdown can keep its PG rating.

But where to incorporate the "wrestling" program to make the IWC "ROH" fans happy? My vision for ECW would be a Cruiserweight/Lucha Libre-style brand, as opposed to a show just featuring "traditional wrestling". And I think that would still appeal to the fans who want "just wrestling". But I don't know if that is enough for them or not. I suppose it's possible that Smackdown could remain as it is today, but I still don't think that program would be as successful as if it resembled programming from the Hogan Era. Whichever draws the higher ratings, I suppose.

But I think it's about time for some concessions to be made. Wrestling-Oriented shows DO NOT draw. It may be popular amongst the IWC, but they do not draw amongst the Mainstream.

Anyway, here is the commentary.

The IWC is Happy. Vince is Not.



The IWC is euphoric. But if ratings don't improve, things could get ugly.

In my opinion, WWE programming is awesome at the moment. Smackdown, ECW, and WWE Superstars are great wrestling shows. And much of that is due to the outcome of the WWE Draft. Smackdown was given such stars as Rey Mysterio, CM Punk, Chris Jericho, and John Morrison. They have joined Edge and Jeff Hardy to form a modern day version of the Smackdown Six. And if you think Smackdown has a good roster now, it'll be even better when The Undertaker returns.

The same goes for ECW. They may not have the star power of Smackdown or Raw. But they have the right pieces in place to produce quality wrestling matches. Swagger, Christian, Finlay, Kidd, Smith, and Bourne have given fans plenty to cheer about. Even Dreamer, Henry, and Kozlov have performed well since the Draft. ECW is generally well-liked by the persnickety IWC. Some members of that community have even called it the best show around.

WWE Superstars has already given fans a few match of the week bouts… and it's only been around since April. It is a reliable and solid "wrestling" show.

IWC fans are finally getting what they've wanted for years. They're getting wrestling. They're getting long matches. New stars are being built. The main event scene is fluid. The IWC wants parity in wrestling; WWE's Tuesday, Thursday, and Friday night shows are giving it to them.

Smackdown especially has drawn nearly universal acclaim from internet wrestling fans. Every week, the show just keeps getting better and better. The IWC finally seems to be warming up to the WWE. However…

There's a problem…


Ratings



Nobody is watching those shows! While Raw has remained consistent since the Draft, WWE's other three "wrestling-oriented" broadcasts have drawn subpar ratings. Smackdown rarely exceeds 2.0, ECW has been trending downward (often below a 1.3), and WWE Superstars consistently scores in the .9 range. Those numbers have to be unsettling for WWE's top brass.

Here's something to keep in mind...

Raw is WWE's "entertainment" program. It reliably draws in the 3's, and occasionally in the 4's. On some weeks, the other three wrestling shows combined struggle to get as many viewers as Raw. Yes, there are many factors that affect ratings. But so far, "wrestling" programming has not delivered. The quality of the shows has improved in the eyes of the IWC. But if WWE judges success by ratings... our favorite wrestling shows have failed miserably.

Does that mean those shows will change? I hope not! But it may only be a matter of time before Smackdown, Superstars, and ECW take on a zanier Raw-like tone.

Bottom line...

If Vince McMahon concludes that "wrestling" doesn't draw, we may see WWE's non-flagship shows go in a different direction.

More Food For Thought

It's kind of funny that ratings fall when the IWC is happy. Should that tell us something?

I know what it tells me: The IWC wants one thing, the general wrestling fanbase wants another. Both groups want drama, but that's the only thing they share in common. The IWC wants the drama to come from wrestling matches. The general wrestling fanbase don't always believe that the best stories are told in a match. They prefer a soap-opera style. They like long promos, backstage segments, and swerves. For them, matches serve a purpose... but only as a means to an end. If a match doesn't serve a storyline purpose, the general fanbase tends to tune out. I've even heard fans bust out the "boring" chants during 4 star matches.

For the IWC fan, a match is usually an end in itself. Matches don't need to advance a storyline. That is probably the key, fundamental difference between the IWC and the general wrestling fanbase. The IWC wants the wrestlers to shut up and wrestle, and everyone else wants the opposite.

My final observation: Raw is drawing in viewers, and appealing to a broad fanbase. Shows like Smackdown are drawing in less people, and appealing to a narrow fansbase. Something has to give. And unfortunately, I don't think McMahon will continue to produce IWC-friendly TV if the ratings continue to plummet.

www.411mania.com

 

[Chadmw]

Earlier in this thread I had made a post about the 3 hour raw and how superstars were already jumping from brand to brand, And used Edge confronting Vicky and the ECW and Smackdown belts being defended on Raw.


Now almost everyone who responded said don't worry about it, it was just a special 1 time thing. It will be a long time before you see this happen again, blah blah blah.

And I was willing to agree that if it was only a one time thing, it was no big deal. But here we are again 3 weeks later and they had a 6 man tag match involving smackdown superstars, which was basically used to promote the PPV matches coming up this weekend.

But see how quickly it becomes a one time thing to "an only special events' to eventually whenever the WWE feels like doing it.

If they have to use Raw to promote Smackdown PPV matches, mainly because there are not enough episodes between PPV's to promote them, maybe it is time to end the brand split

 

[RH23]

I wish Goldust would go back to his heel persona that he had back in the 90's but I don't think that his character would "fit" into what the PG Era is about. Anyways Raw's lack of heels is a problem, but the main problem is as Lord Sidious said, Vince doesn't concentrate on the mid card and tag team division.

If you look at who was currently in the main event scene on Smackdown, Edge and Jeff Hardy, they came from the tag team division then onto the mid card for a while then eventually the main event scene. This made the transition much more smooth because these two worked their way up for a long time and weren't pushed to the moon or shoved down our throats like some that are today.

 

[betajsmith]

I enjoy the wwe matches for the most part. Altough I hate it when they lay on the ground for too long. I feel like they're trying to take a break or something. Althogh I loved seeing the big show suplex on monday. That was cool.

 

[S prince]

In recent years, especially very recently, Vince McMahon and the WWE creative have become fully aware of internet spoilers and how us readers/fans know whats going to happen or what the creative plans are in the future. As a result, they decide to throw a curveball and scrap those plans, just to throw us fans off and "attempt" to surprise us with something else instead. Recent examples include:

Raw GM: Pretty sure everyone on this site and others were dead set on Ric Flair being the new GM, but instead they put Trump in there.

Christian as the Jeff Hardy attacker, but no, tried to throw us off.


Basically, my beef is, the curveballs and surprises that VKM and WWE tries to throw at us, really aren't very good at all. Instead, how about they frigon listen to us loyal fans and our ideas and honor them. Have an HBK vs. John Morrison feud. Everyone wants it. Have John Cena and CM Punk turn heel. Have Edge turn face. Frigon release Batista or have him turn heel. Give pushes to Kendrick, Benjamin, R-Truth,Santino. Majority of us want it! Right?

Damn sure I'd be more excited about Raw/Smackdown if our threads about our ideas actually became a reality.

 

[Steamboat Ricky]

Seriously...like every other thread created is about how to fix WWE. Why? The product has vastly improved since Mania, Raw pulled a 4.8 last week, and Smackdown is stacked and consistently provides quality entertainment week after week. Extreme Rules, despite having a treacherous name, was a pretty solid PPV with the exception of Cena/Show.

Why why why does it need fixing? It's pretty entertaining right now, in my opinion.