General WWE Complaining & PG Rating Thread

[Milkyway!]

Okay, it's hard to respect you're stance when you're stating you're opinions as facts. not everyone agrees that the product is geat, in fact most of us seem rather displeased with it, especially Raw. After one of the most illogically written shows I have ever seen, I dont see how anyone could put that episode anywhere but the trash compactor in they're memory bank.

*Yawn* It was a good episode, the point of wrestling is to be able to dispose of belief. If you think of this logically, the entire show shouldn't exsist. Its all fake, the wrestling, etc. Let yourself be entertained, and stop trying to act like a critic, because in all honestly, that was a good RAW.

I'm thrilled Batista will be out of my line of sight for the next few months, especially after how horribly he sold his arm, if this man didnt have muscles, I swear he'd be working at Denny's.

But he does work at the WWE, he does have charisma. Batista is an ash of his former flame, back in his prime (2 years ago) He was on fire. He oozed charisma about like dairy cows produce milk.

By the way, don't refer to yourself in the third person, we already think so little of you intellectually, you've got little ground to lose.

By the way, WHO the fuck are you? I did the whole third person thing for a comic relief. KKTHXBAI

Okay, thee is no way that absurd episode came aywhere near the level of entertainment of the Austin/mcmahon situation.

No, it didn't. But thats not what I said either. I said the WWE hasn't put out a better RAW since then. Learn to read.

It was poorly thought out and a complete waste of an oppurtunity to give us something good.

Not really. Overall it was a good RAW. I for one, am one who enjoys the Santino skits, hes an amazing comic relief. The oddities stable is putting out good matches, especially Golddust. The Miz is quickly rising to the top, and hes fueding with John Cena, a guy that could give a 2 year old credibility. The only criticism I could possibly give the WWE right now, is that The Big Show is boring.

i don't know what they look for in they're writing staff but I would think someonewho can derive a logical storyline, at the very least would be in they're requisites.

Yes because its really illigogical. Explain to me what happened on last weeks RAW that was illogical, I'm begging.

Best injury angle you have ever seen? You dont watch much wrestling do you?

Nope, I just spend 3-9 hours a day watching matches, posting on wrestlezone, and reading about all the storylines.

i

like the Miz, but he is a nice mid card wrestler, but he will never be the FOCAL point of any WWE show, just a reliable heel presence for years to come IMO.

What you're saying is silly. Miz is quickly rising in the ranks, and if they would put him in a match, and actually book him to look strong, Miz would be a main event wrestler right then and there. His promos are amazing, and hes got quite the large amount of charisma as of late too. Hes quite funny, and some of the things he says are priceless.

He will eventually get squashed by Cena, thats how Vince does things.

Nice, you can see the future. When will I die? What will my children be like? Is my wife going to be hot? >.> Vince is unpredictable, and he doesn't even write all the bookings. People act as if he doesn't have a table of bookers giving him ideas. He will run with this, hopefully.

He may outsmart Cena but he will never really be portrayed to hold his own, thats only consistent with the character they have created.

Once again, you can see the future. Cena is booked to overcome the odds, etc. They don't like to make their top face in the company look weak, send a complaint. If they do this correctly, Cena can come out with the win, with Miz getting a HUGE rub, and possibly a few pinfall victories as well.

No competition right now? they're a bunch of wormy little heels who get beat up by any main eventer until they have a chance to swarm on them.

Wormy little heels, does that make any since? Isn't that the entire point of being a heel? To be wormy. Do anything and everything to get the victory. I mean come on, it wouldn't make any since for Orton to have Priceless backing him up, and they not swarm whomever Orton is fueding to keep the title. They build Orton to be able to hold the title, and then have Priceless as backup. Its, an ace up his sleeve so to speak.

orton has already lost to Batista, been beaten to a pulp by triple H several times, lost his title and been beaten down by a 60 year old man.

Lol. They took the title off Orton for some reason, in a 7 minute squash. Thats the ONLY thing I can possibly think of as to the WWE doing something stupid in the past couple weeks. Thats the only time Orton really has been put down, and looked like hes not a credible champion. With HHH it was a simple fued, Orton has beaten him to a pulp several times as well. I don't recall Flair and Orton ever actually fighting. Orton did punch and beat the hell out of Flair until Batista came out for the save.

ted and cody JUST got a signifigant match last week. How is this dominant?

*Yawn* You don't watch superstars do you? They've been having great matches with the Colons there since the debut of Superstars. Priceless has had several matches with the Colons, and has had several one on one matches with them as well. Yet, when they faced them again this past week is the only significant match? Very interesting indeed.

First off, I dont know where you see amazing in anyone of these young guys you are speaking of.

Most of the younger guys are green, and still oozing more charisma than most of the older guys did when they first enterened the business. Come on now, allow them some time, each and everyone of them I listed, shows some potential.

Because half of the guys you listed are already full on established and mostly set in there veteran places. Edge, Hardy, Christian, Jericho are all in they're mid to late 30's, they were leading the new generation ten years ago and while they are all great in they're own ways, are by no means a substance provider for your "new generation arguement".

By the standards Flair set, they still have a good 30 years in the wrestling business. So, yes, they could be, and will be in the company 5-10 years as long as they keep their health.

You're the reason Vince keeps rolling out this awful product. You think he's trying, you think they're demolishing competition that isn't even there anymore. I don't like TNA, but I really hope this company makes a dent and gives Vince a reason to try somewhere down the line.

The reason TNA can't build, is because WWE puts out 5-10fold the shows TNA does. I mean come on, at least the WWE isn't booked by men with ADD. Vince is putting on a great product at the moment, and theres nothing really wrong with it, other than the fact that theres abunch of fools out there stuck in the attitude era.

Okay, i'm gonna try and pretend that you din't just say the WWE is more innovative than the ECW of old. Everything the WWE did creatively that flourished, somene did first, not only ECW. The WWe has the money to take an Idea and make it seem innovative even to people who have seen the same ideas at they're inception, but that hardly makes them innovative. The things they do try that are creative, are usually the bad side of that spectrum.

Yes, Hardy and Edge didn't just have one of the best ladder matches ever this past Sunday. Cena didn't get thrown through the batman signal after the best (personal) last man standing match I have ever seen. Orton didn't RKO a woman, and then kiss her, in front of her husband, and then hit her husband with a sledgehammer only to punt him in the face. Jericho didn't hit a 60 year old man with a video camera. ECW was trash, it was just spot after spot, that anyone can do. The only thing I can't do they did, was balance on the back of a chair like Sabu used to do. I wouldn't do it personally because I don't have the brains of a monkey, but who the heck can't jump through a flaming table while someone is on it? Hit someone with dull barbwire? Come on, thats just illogical (See what I did there?) that any of them lived.

I mean if you like Festus, Hornswoggle, the hog pen match (now and from the 90's), Goldust, Santina, the gobledy gooker, and The Boogeyman then i would say you're the last one to enter a discussion on innovation.

Hornswoggle could be over the line, but I just love midgets. Fetus is a decent wrestler, using a gimmick I've never heard of/seen. The Hog Pen match was pointless. The Boogeyman still wrestles? Santina is funny. Goldust is one hell of a wrestler. Gobledy Gooker was like 10 years ago, what the hell?

If the product was good in a general opinion, I'm sure you would see a change in that trend. Opinions are opinions, and the fact that there is more bad then good these days should make that fairly clear to you about the overall appeal of the show.

The product is good in a general opinion. Thats why million of people watch it each week. If not, no one would watch it at all. You people just like to complain a lot, which is really nearve racking to those who can actually enjoy something without having to hear cursing, see blood, hear sexual comments, see the occational nipslip, etc.

 

[Mighty NorCal]

PG Era (my complaints)


Top Babyface is heavily booed in many markets

No more Gimmicks/Characters- Only Personalities ... and boring ones at that

Very, VERY few storylines anymore. Most shows have no storylines, anymore. The action is pretty much ONLY about challenging for a title or vying for #1 Contendership with a title.

Enthusiasm Level of the Audience is Very Poor compared to prior Eras

Focus ONLY on the Main Event

Elimination of Face/Heel Commentary teams

Commentators reduced to a bland, boring commentary style, in which they are told not to get excited anymore. Results in commentary very comparable to Golf Commentary.

A Tag Team Division that has been destroyed, despite having 4 television programs to air them on.

***Too much focus on the wrestling across the board on their shows. The drawback in this is that instead of using time to build storylines to increase interest in the feuds, they use that time to increase the match lengths. Therefore, people don't care when two superstars wrestle on PPV, since chances are, you've already seen them wrestle for free on TV more than a dozen times already, and they didn't properly build up the feud via storylines. Instead, they are relying on wrestling on TV, to sell more wrestling on PPV's.

Comedy that isn't funny, in the least.

No more Managers at Ringside. This, as others have pointed out, is a lot more important than people think. Not only did these characters provide more interesting personalities to keep the viewers interested, however they also provided numerous variations in match finishes, which has now been taken away. Interfering behind the ref's back, the chance to see managers take bumps after the matches (to the crowd's delight), all of which has been taken away.

No debut vignettes for incoming talent to help people care about them (once in a blue moon like Kizarny will pop up)

Er. I dunno about "booed heavily" or "many markets". If its Cena your on about, I mean. He isnt the WWEs top face though, Jeff Hardy is. Triple H as well. The reactions are about 80% pro Cena regardless of were they go.

Yea, there is some blandness to the characters. What do you expect though? when they try to introduce characters, they get shit on for it. Thank your attitude era for that.

Personally I dont find anything wrong with that at all. Its old school style booking, more legitimate. A lot fo the time, back in the Hogan era, it was all about the title, or hatred of the man carrying the title. Same thing now. I understand your want for more complex storylines though, as thats what we grew accustomed to during the attitude era. Like I said though, thats an exception, not a rule. The booking and storylines now arent much different at all to the Hogan era.

Yea, the crowds are utter shit nowadays. No clue on that one.

Id say the focus on the mid card has been steadily improving since the onset of 2009. The IC title tournament, the IC title being on WM, the US title being hotly contested, and both belts being on very capable, high profile preformers (well...was...now Kofi has the US title, but thats sorta the way it goes....legit, legit, young push, young push, so on and so forth). The mid card was shit for a pretty good while. I think to say such a thing is a tad overdramatic now, seeing as how we have been seeing VERY strong PPVs every show since WM25.

Well, you act like heel commentators grow on trees. Look at what they have to work with? No much at all. I mean. you got what you got.

I too, am absolutely baffled at the tag title situation. It has somehow STEEPLY declined since the title have been unified. I loved the teams of old as well. Lack of talent or something. No ideer.

I agree with you on too much wrestling on the weekly programs. TOTALLY agree. Thing is, you dont do that, and then you get people on this very same website crying out in the streets that they want wrestling, and not a soap opera. I think they need to get a better balance. They are working towards it I belive though.

RTruth was given Vingettes as well. Tons of them, and they were damn well done. Thing is though, they arent really needed. Its what they have ECW for. By the time the guys debut on SD or RAW, the fans are already familure with them. A few vingettes of the guys in action wouldnt hurt I suppose, but there are enough tri branded things going on for guys to grab face time.

 

[Ambiguous Turd]

*Yawn* It was a good episode, the point of wrestling is to be able to dispose of belief. If you think of this logically, the entire show shouldn't exist. Its all fake, the wrestling, etc. Let yourself be entertained, and stop trying to act like a critic, because in all honestly, that was a good RAW.

Perhaps not all of us are entertained by only the wrestling. What about those of us who want to be entertained by the wrestling, AND gimmicks/characters, as well as intriguing storylines? Those are the very things WWE has given us since the 1980's, which has been taken away.

Your idea for what is good, is not the same as everyone else's. And the biggest problem I take with your postings is the exact same thing that Infant Finite called you out on ... your opinions ARE NOT facts, yet you profess them like they are.

Even in our very own poll on here, you can clearly see that a majority of people in the sample are apathetic to the product today. Then, they are followed by the people who are Very Disappointed with the product. The people who like the product, are in the minority.

I think what we have is a lot of people who are watching out of blind loyalty, that aren't really excited by the product, at all. I think they watch, in hopes that things will get better, yet they continue allowing themselves to be disappointed week after week.

The enthusiasm level shows in the live crowds, and that level is absolutely nothing compared to prior Eras.

No, it didn't. But thats not what I said either. I said the WWE hasn't put out a better RAW since then. Learn to read.

Give me a break. There have been far better Raws even when Austin was long gone off the Roster. Nothing, absolutely nothing in this day and age will ever come close to being Great compared to the Raws of the past.

Also, I think it's sad when even internally, the feeling about WWE amongst its employees is that Raw is extremely stale and boring. And the product is utterly horrendous.

It's easy to do what you do and come on here and say "No, you're wrong. Raw is absolutely fantastic. It is the best it has ever been. It's exciting!! It's entertaining!!! It is Must-See TV. You are all simply wrong!"

See how easy that was. Now, does that mean that I am necessarily correct? Of course not. I would say that anyone who says those things are absolutely delusional and out-of-touch with the audience and general consensus of the product.

Not really. Overall it was a good RAW. I for one, am one who enjoys the Santino skits, hes an amazing comic relief. The oddities stable is putting out good matches, especially Golddust. The Miz is quickly rising to the top, and hes fueding with John Cena, a guy that could give a 2 year old credibility. The only criticism I could possibly give the WWE right now, is that The Big Show is boring.

If that's the only criticism you can find about today's product, then I feel sorry for you. Although I will give you this much, yes the Big Show is incredibly boring. Unfortunately, he isn't the only thing that's boring. There are so many other things that are unfortunately boring, as well.

What you're saying is silly. Miz is quickly rising in the ranks, and if they would put him in a match, and actually book him to look strong, Miz would be a main event wrestler right then and there. His promos are amazing, and hes got quite the large amount of charisma as of late too. Hes quite funny, and some of the things he says are priceless.

I do like the Miz, however what exactly has he said that you would consider to be "Priceless" (compared to someone like The Rock, for instance?)

Vince is unpredictable.

Vince is quite predictable. At one point he was unpredictable, but today he and his product are actually quite predictable. And I doubt you will find many people willing to take your side on that argument.

The reason TNA can't build, is because WWE puts out 5-10fold the shows TNA does. I mean come on, at least the WWE isn't booked by men with ADD.

The reason TNA can't build is because their marketing team absolutely sucks. And I think it's a shame that Carter actually has a Marketing Background. It certainly doesn't show.

However, TNA does beat Superstars and routinely beats ECW in the ratings.

Vince is putting on a great product at the moment, and theres nothing really wrong with it, other than the fact that theres abunch of fools out there stuck in the attitude era.

If you go to that poll in the other thread, you will see according to the sample, it isn't only the Attitude Era fans that are upset. The Hogan Era fans are also very upset.

I think the fools out there are actually those that think their opinions are God. The fact is that what I have seen transpire is over the years, a bunch of very vociferous, mouthy, loud-mouth fans that at some point, interjected themselves as supposedly the voice of what all wrestling fans want AND what all wrestling fans "Should like" (according to them). WRONG!!

If the product sucks, then I am going to say that the product sucks. I am not going to give blind loyalty to a company, simply because it was a part of my childhood.

People don't like to be told by others what they should and should not be liking. That is why Vince is having a hard time with a lot of his fanbase these days not embracing his vision.

I don't however, think the PG rating is the sole reason the product sucks, like a lot of people do. I think it plays a part in it, because the talent is very restricted in getting over with the audience, and that is very visible in today's product. However, I simply think Vince has abandoned all effort he once put into characters and storylines. And that is primarily why I think his product is awful.

There are no more gimmicks. Only personalities.

There are no more storylines. Only people chasing the title and competing for the thrill of competing. That isn't exciting to the rest of us. Maybe it is to you, but it isn't to the rest of us who speak up about it. And that's why I no longer watch it, but rather, simply read the Newsboards.

Orton didn't RKO a woman, and then kiss her, in front of her husband, and then hit her husband with a sledgehammer only to punt him in the face.

And that's fine and dandy if they keep his character consistent. One week, he's psycho Orton. Next week, he's chickenshit Orton. One week, he has IED. The next week, he doesn't and admit it was all a work. So I guess all those psychotic glances he was giving on Raw with Stephanie was all a work, then, too. That is what is illogical and piss-poor writing.


Hornswoggle could be over the line, but I just love midgets. Fetus is a decent wrestler, using a gimmick I've never heard of/seen. The Hog Pen match was pointless. The Boogeyman still wrestles? Santina is funny. Goldust is one hell of a wrestler. Gobledy Gooker was like 10 years ago, what the hell?

The product is good in a general opinion. Thats why million of people watch it each week.

I think a lot of people simply watch out of habit. The product is not good, or else so many people wouldn't be apathetic towards it. We can say the product is very average at the moment. Although, the only reason I say it's "Average" is because it does have somewhat of a following. Although, like I said that I suspected, I think a lot of people watch simply out of blind loyalty and aren't really all that thrilled with the product.

The only problem is that when push comes to shove, and if WWE has to change their ways because the audiences and ratings begin deteriorating even more ... then you will be the first person to say "Well, this is just great!! WWE is now moving in the right direction to correct the problem, because their product was stale and boring! Now, we are going to get a better WWE than ever before!!!!"

You seemingly like to pretend you are a little WWE PR employee. Everything is ALWAYS great!! If you can't find absolutely anything wrong with today's product, other than one single wrestler, that being the Big Show, is boring .... than many will question your credibility as a poster, as opposed to simply being a WWE mark.

If not, no one would watch it at all. You people just like to complain a lot, which is really nearve racking to those who can actually enjoy something without having to hear cursing, see blood, hear sexual comments, see the occational nipslip, etc.

Well, that's the problem when WWE presents two totally different products over the years, and expects its fans to majically conform to both. It isn't realistic.

Your constant blind loyalty and obnoxious praising of all things WWE is equally nerve-wracking and annoying to those of us who want to see a product that resembles what the company used to give us.

You have heard a lot of complaints, I realize. Perhaps the smart thing for WWE to do is give you a show that you like, and give us a show that we like. Therefore, all the little children can play nice in the sandbox. I guess that concept is too novel, though.

 

[Mighty NorCal]

Hogan may have been in the title scene for a long period of time, but: a) he didn't fight the same people over and over again; b) he was just the icing on a very appetizing cake.

goes back to the oversaturation argument. I dont think the product is shit necessarily, just possibly that there is too much of it. I mean, when you only have to fill 4 PPV main events in a year, its not too tough to make it 4 different matches. On the other hand, when you have to fill 28 different PPV ME matches (14 PPVs, two main brands) then its going to make it decidedly more difficult to fill the matches with different guys right?

 

[ipswichicon80]

OK I am just going to ramble about what my problem with WWE today is.
1.) The PG rating. My problem is not with the lack of blood or the lack on bra and panties matches it's with the CREATIVE DIRECTION! John Cenav should turn heel. Fact! From a business point of view I understand why he's not. He is in films and sells a shitload of merchendise. But from a creative point of view it's been missed oppturinty after missed oppturnity to turn him heel. Screw the "he get's a 100% reaction" argument you think the mums and kids wouldn't boo the guy for turning his back on them? As a heel he would still get a 100% reaction.
2.) Same old faces: Batastia.Orton,Triple H,Edge, Taker, Cena, Big Show. These are the only people who have competied for the title for the past four years. With the exception of: Jeff Hardy(rumored to be leaving) klithcow(is that how you say it, I don't care the guy is useless) and the great Kahli.Why are we seeing triple H vs Orton for the 100th time? Because new stars haven't been made.

 

[The Todd]

1.) The PG rating. My problem is not with the lack of blood or the lack on bra and panties matches it's with the CREATIVE DIRECTION!

What has that got to do with the PG rating? The PG rating is not a problem at all.

John Cenav should turn heel. Fact!

Saying "fact" after everything makes you seem like a complete fool. Ask Rafa Benitez. Your opinion is not a fact.

From a business point of view I understand why he's not. He is in films and sells a shitload of merchendise. But from a creative point of view it's been missed oppturinty after missed oppturnity to turn him heel.

How? How is it a missed opportunity. He draws as a face and he has amazing heels to work with, and Big Show. He is the top face. Who do you replace him with? If you mean fresh feuds, if he turns heel he has HHH and Batista. They've both been done. Let him have a programme with The Miz and then he can have a go at beating Legacy three on one.

[/quote]Screw the "he get's a 100% reaction" argument you think the mums and kids wouldn't boo the guy for turning his back on them? As a heel he would still get a 100% reaction.[/quote]
Who gets 100% reaction? No one does in WWE due to twatty smarks, especially now Vickie Guerrero's gone. Many people have said they would "mark out" if Cena turned heel. What use is that if those who were booing him now cheer him?

2.) Same old faces: Batastia.Orton,Triple H,Edge, Taker, Cena, Big Show. These are the only people who have competied for the title for the past four years.

Forgive me for pointing out the obvious but isn't CM Punk the champion now? Let's look at the last year only. ReyRey was in the EC at NWO, Kane was, Knox was. Chris Jericho was the champion on Raw, twice. He faught HBK for the title. Before that CM Punk and JBL feuded over it.

On Smackdown, Jeff was the main focus all year, for the first time in his career, he is now the most popular wrestler. The scramble involved MVP, Shelton and TBK. Not wwe's fault all three got the chance and failed.

With the exception of: Jeff Hardy(rumored to be leaving) klithcow(is that how you say it, I don't care the guy is useless) and the great Kahli.

And the ones I mentioned.

Why are we seeing triple H vs Orton for the 100th time? Because new stars haven't been made.

They haven't. I've already mentioned Jeff. CM Punk is on the push of his life. Jericho has returned and become a great character. Evan Bourne and Jack Swagger have unlimited potential thanks to their pushes on ECW. Kofi Kingston is doing well. John Morrison and The Miz are another two examples. Dolph Ziggler is primes for big things. Mike Knox and R-Truth have potential.

They are grooming plenty of future stars. It takes time to get them ready. If you rush them, like TBK, they end up jobbing to Hornswoggle. There is no need to rush them. The Rock, Stone Cold, HHH, they all took years and plenty of character tweaks to reach the big time. The beauty is watching them get to the top.

 

[OIL]

The only problem I have with the WWE atm is that for the world titles, it's pretty much the same people in the main events. it's starting to bug me. i like how they're mixing in MVP now, and Kennedy was gonna be in there too until he got released.

if the WWE could mix up a few more people into the main event scene, then i'd be really interested again. also, pick up the women's division a little. just give them a proper storyline. other than that, i'm happy with the WWE.

 

[ipswichicon80]

What has that got to do with the PG rating? The PG rating is not a problem at all.

It's about the creative deirection pandering to the women and childerns market, not to the market of wrestling fans. The PG rating in itself is, I agree not a problem, it's the creative direction that it takes the company.

Saying "fact" after everything makes you seem like a complete fool. Ask Rafa Benitez. Your opinion is not a fact.

Hmm. Agreed. I apoligise for this as I hate when people represent opinions as facts, my bad.

How? How is it a missed opportunity. He draws as a face and he has amazing heels to work with, and Big Show. He is the top face. Who do you replace him with? If you mean fresh feuds, if he turns heel he has HHH and Batista. They've both been done. Let him have a programme with The Miz and then he can have a go at beating Legacy three on one.
I'm talking creativly. As stated from a business point of view I understand it. However if he turned heel, logic dictates that those who cheer him now will pay money to see him get his ass kicked. He could draw much better as a heel IMO.

Who gets 100% reaction? No one does in WWE due to twatty smarks, especially now Vickie Guerrero's gone. Many people have said they would "mark out" if Cena turned heel. What use is that if those who were booing him now cheer him?
I disagree that the same people who boo Cena now would cheer for him. His character is,imo,the main reason he is booed. He is a white meat baby face, devoid of any attitude who, personally,I find quite annoying. Turning him heel and giving him back his edge(which is how he got over originally,before being stripped of his raps,"conterverstial" sounding holds, and any personality) would, when turned back to a face, get the correct reaction from the fans.That's 100% cheers. Also, would it kill him to apply the STF propely and give his punches some sort of realisim? Just a thought.

Forgive me for pointing out the obvious but isn't CM Punk the champion now? Let's look at the last year only. ReyRey was in the EC at NWO, Kane was, Knox was. Chris Jericho was the champion on Raw, twice. He faught HBK for the title. Before that CM Punk and JBL feuded over it.

On Smackdown, Jeff was the main focus all year, for the first time in his career, he is now the most popular wrestler. The scramble involved MVP, Shelton and TBK. Not wwe's fault all three got the chance and failed.


Being in a 6 man match for the title on one card does not make you in the main event picture. That's like claiming everyone in the royal rumble was in the main event picture because they had a shot to wrestle in the main event at mania. In my book this does not constitute "being given a chance".
The problem with pushing someone like Jeff Hardy(and I am a fan) is they can never put the belt on him and plan long term because he is unrealiable. he was in the middle of a huge push(which many thought would lead to a MITB win) when he was suspended for a wellness voliation.
CM Punk was not pushed as a creabile champ last time. I'll wait and see if WWE makes the right moves this time. I hope so.
There were other people invovled in the main event spots but in the main it was the people I've mentioned in my last post. Did JBL need to be in the world tittle picture? Did Jericho? They were already big stars. Where are the new young names in the picture(with the exception of punk)? This is my problem,no new stars are being made.



They haven't. I've already mentioned Jeff. CM Punk is on the push of his life. Jericho has returned and become a great character. Evan Bourne and Jack Swagger have unlimited potential thanks to their pushes on ECW. Kofi Kingston is doing well. John Morrison and The Miz are another two examples. Dolph Ziggler is primes for big things. Mike Knox and R-Truth have potential.

They are grooming plenty of future stars. It takes time to get them ready. If you rush them, like TBK, they end up jobbing to Hornswoggle. There is no need to rush them. The Rock, Stone Cold, HHH, they all took years and plenty of character tweaks to reach the big time. The beauty is watching them get to the top.

Jeff and Y2j are not young stars. I agree people have poteniel but how long has WWE got? Alot of it's headliners have one eye on retirement or reduced sheculdes. It took Jeff years to break the "glass celing" now it looks likley he will retire soon due to injuries. All that time spent pushing him over the past couple of years could be wasted. Why? because it took them too long to push him.

 

[Ambiguous Turd]

Jeff and Y2j are not young stars. I agree people have poteniel but how long has WWE got? Alot of it's headliners have one eye on retirement or reduced sheculdes. It took Jeff years to break the "glass celing" now it looks likley he will retire soon due to injuries. All that time spent pushing him over the past couple of years could be wasted. Why? because it took them too long to push him.

I too have to chuckle at Jericho trying to be named a "new star" in this argument. I seemed to recall him Main Eventing 7 years ago at Wrestlemania 18, yet apparently he is a "New Star" to some people when they are trying to make a point.

Yes, it does take time to groom new stars, but like you said, the problem is WWE waited too long.

Furthermore, is anyone going to tell me with a straight face that they see CM Punk's and MVP's future being on the same level of success as a Shawn Michaels, John Cena, Undertaker, Triple H, etc.?

The problem sadly isn't with them. It's not their fault they can't draw to the degree the current Main Event stars do. The problem is that Creative has made the product so dull and boring, that it has pissed off numerous customers, so that they really could care less about the product. That's why you have so many fans sitting at WWE events like a bunch of quiet, little drones. They're there. But their excitement level is about as excited as watching paint dry compared to the prior Eras.

 

[ipswichicon80]

I too have to chuckle at Jericho trying to be named a "new star" in this argument. I seemed to recall him Main Eventing 7 years ago at Wrestlemania 18, yet apparently he is a "New Star" to some people when they are trying to make a point.

Yes, it does take time to groom new stars, but like you said, the problem is WWE waited too long.

Furthermore, is anyone going to tell me with a straight face that they see CM Punk's and MVP's future being on the same level of success as a Shawn Michaels, John Cena, Undertaker, Triple H, etc.?

The problem sadly isn't with them. It's not their fault they can't draw to the degree the current Main Event stars do. The problem is that Creative has made the product so dull and boring, that it has pissed off numerous customers, so that they really could care less about the product. That's why you have so many fans sitting at WWE events like a bunch of quiet, little drones. They're there. But their excitement level is about as excited as watching paint dry compared to the prior Eras.

I agree. Also due to there rigid thinking a lot of guys wrestle the same way, as there interviews are scripted by the same people they sound the same. There is no way for these guys to get over because they all wrestle and sound the same.How are they supposed to stand out. Cena has gotton a massive push,and been booked like he's superman. That's how he's stayed over. All the things that got him over in the first place have been stripped from his character. That's why I believe a heel turn would be good for him and if WWE were to book someone in a simaliar way (IE winning 95% of there matches against headliners) he could easily be replaced. I beleive that Cena probaly would like a heel turn. He's been a face since SS 03, almost 6 years! That's a long time in todays business when switches occuar (too) regularly.

 

[The Todd]

I too have to chuckle at Jericho trying to be named a "new star" in this argument. I seemed to recall him Main Eventing 7 years ago at Wrestlemania 18, yet apparently he is a "New Star" to some people when they are trying to make a point.

Where did I say he was a new star? I was listing those who have been in the Main Event that the other fella didn't mention.

Furthermore, is anyone going to tell me with a straight face that they see CM Punk's and MVP's future being on the same level of success as a Shawn Michaels, John Cena, Undertaker, Triple H, etc.?

Can you tell me with a straight face that you thought Cena would be likened to Hulk Hogan when he was a white rapper?

The problem sadly isn't with them.It's not their fault they can't draw to the degree the current Main Event stars do.

To a degree it is. John Morrison has done brilliantly since his babyface push, the fans are right on his side. MVP, for instance, has lost his fans since the push. Yes creative have tweaked his character but it is up to MVP to challenge creative to change his character. Stone Cold's character wasn't a creative decision, it was Steve himself. There is nothing to stop them pitching ideas.

Jeff and Y2j are not young stars. I agree people have poteniel but how long has WWE got?

Again, I didn't say they were young. I listed those not in your list.

Alot of it's headliners have one eye on retirement or reduced sheculdes.

Yes, so they are slowly making the replacements. There is no use in rushing them.

It took Jeff years to break the "glass celing" now it looks likley he will retire soon due to injuries. All that time spent pushing him over the past couple of years could be wasted. Why? because it took them too long to push him.

They tried pushing him earlier and he failed a drugs test. That is his fault. He came back and proved he had changed, then he got his push. It wasn't creatives fault.

 

[ipswichicon80]

They tried pushing him earlier and he failed a drugs test. That is his fault. He came back and proved he had changed, then he got his push. It wasn't creatives fault.[/QUOTE]

Yes that was in 2008, after he'd been wrestling for years. My point is it took almost ten years for him to make it. It didn't take Cena that long because he has recevied a sustained push, which few people seem to get. Let's take CM Punk. Cashed in MITB won the title, was made to look inferoir to his oppoents, then gave up the title in a match he wasn't even allowed to particapate in. Then got forgotton about untill this years MITB match. After that he lost on two concecutive PPV's. Before picking up a winning a cashing in the title again. That is not a sustained push. Guy's like Punk,Carlito,Benjemin, Morrison could be big stars if givien proper pushes, instead they're put in throw away fueds and forgotton about.

 

[Ambiguous Turd]

Where did I say he was a new star? I was listing those who have been in the Main Event that the other fella didn't mention.

Where did I say that I was responding directly to you? I made a general statement that I chuckle at those that do claim that Jericho is some new star that WWE has created all of a sudden, when he was in the Main Event at Mania 18.

Can you tell me with a straight face that you thought Cena would be likened to Hulk Hogan when he was a white rapper?

I wouldn't have thought WWE would have made that attempt, however they did. And you know what? That attempt has failed miserably, and is overwhelmingly rejected by the WWE fanbase. Clearly, John Cena is no Hulk Hogan, is no where near Hulk Hogan's league, shouldn't even be compared to Hulk Hogan.

My opinion was that they should have kept him in the Rapper role, while giving him a huge push to the Main Event. And I think he should still be in the Rapper role today. If they would have done that, combined with the push he received, I think he very well could have been the next Big Hogan or Austin, if done correctly.

But, they chose to water him down, and the business suffered as a whole.

To a degree it is. John Morrison has done brilliantly since his babyface push, the fans are right on his side. MVP, for instance, has lost his fans since the push. Yes creative have tweaked his character but it is up to MVP to challenge creative to change his character. Stone Cold's character wasn't a creative decision, it was Steve himself. There is nothing to stop them pitching ideas.

Give me a break about Austin and it not being a Creative decision. Austin may very well have come up with the idea for his character, but are you telling me that he could have done the Stone Cold Steve Austin character if the programming was restricted to a PG rating? You wouldn't have even seen that character if the rating was what it is today. Or, if they attempted it with Austin saying he was simply going to "kick people's butts" on a weekly basis, then he wouldn't have enjoyed anywhere near the same degree to success that he did, with the leeway in the rating he was given.

So yes, the personalities are very much restricted by what they can and can't do, and much of that is completely out of their control. Finding ways to get over with the audience with the current content limitations with the current rating is proving to be extremely difficult for WWE, hence the dead crowds at the shows and overall deteriorating interest in the product.

 

[The Todd]

Yes that was in 2008, after he'd been wrestling for years. My point is it took almost ten years for him to make it.

He had a mini push in 2002 with the ladder match with the Undertaker, then after that he failed his first drug test, was released and spent three years away from the WWE. So he basically ruined his whole momentum with that and had to start again.

It didn't take Cena that long because he has recevied a sustained push, which few people seem to get.

Still took him two years to get the win, and that was at a time when WWE were pushing new superstars very quickly. Rock, Austin, Lesnar, Hogan had all gone and Cena and Batista got the big pushes. They weren't the main eventers when those were still competing. You have to wait until the rest leave before they are in the top two or three of the company.

Let's take CM Punk. Cashed in MITB won the title, was made to look inferoir to his oppoents, then gave up the title in a match he wasn't even allowed to particapate in.

It came a year too early for him. he wasn't believable as a champion then, now he is. If Hardy hadn't got suspended, Punk wouldn't have won that MitB. That was a perfect example of pushing someone too quick.

Then got forgotton about untill this years MITB match. After that he lost on two concecutive PPV's.

To two monsters where he looked competitive. He then beat Umaga cleanly twice before cashing in. He isn't meant to be a strong champion though, hence the supposed heel turn.

Guy's like Punk,Carlito,Benjemin, Morrison could be big stars if givien proper pushes, instead they're put in throw away fueds and forgotton about.

Punk is the biggest talking point in WWE at the moment, Morrison is handling his push very well, Carlito has to wait his turn after badmouthing the company and Shelton doesn't deserve a main event push at all.

 

[The Todd]

Where did I say that I was responding directly to you? I made a general statement that I chuckle at those that do claim that Jericho is some new star that WWE has created all of a sudden, when he was in the Main Event at Mania 18.

Fair enough.

[uote]I wouldn't have thought WWE would have made that attempt, however they did. And you know what? That attempt has failed miserably, and is overwhelmingly rejected by the WWE fanbase. Clearly, John Cena is no Hulk Hogan, is no where near Hulk Hogan's league, shouldn't even be compared to Hulk Hogan.[/quote]
He is the main attraction of the company so of course he gets compared to the other faces of the company from other era's. He is always compared to Hogan, Hart, HBK, Austin, Rock, HHH, Lesnar etc. And of course he is no Hogan, no one ever will be. However, he is definitely up there with the best in the company. My point is you never thought Cena's push would happen, but it did. Therefore it is entirely plausible CM Punk will one day be the top man in the company.

Give me a break about Austin and it not being a Creative decision. Austin may very well have come up with the idea for his character, but are you telling me that he could have done the Stone Cold Steve Austin character if the programming was restricted to a PG rating?

It is a different era. Of course the Austin character wouldn't have worked now. It worked at the time, and Austin knew that. There is othing to stop the superstars of today finding out what the audience wants and then attempt to create it.

So yes, the personalities are very much restricted by what they can and can't do, and much of that is completely out of their control. Finding ways to get over with the audience with the current content limitations with the current rating is proving to be extremely difficult for WWE, hence the dead crowds at the shows and overall deteriorating interest in the product.

Then they should actually research what their audiences want then. If you worked for a company and weren't been given the chance to prove yourself, would you make the effort to prove to your boss you deserved that promotion by going the extra mile? If you are ambitious you do. The superstars should give it a go.

 

[ipswichicon80]

As I mentioned in a earlier post Punk lost his next two PPV matches after mania. Apparently this was because he had the nerve to ask questions about his character. The problem is people don't complain and offer ideas because they see others getting buried for it. BTW this is one of the things that annoys me about WWE, they punish people(usually to the detriment of the company,as well as the individual) simply for questioning where they're character is going.They did the same to Carlito after he complained. Maybe if they listiened to the wrestlers more, or if they don't want to go along with thier idea just say thanks but no thanks and not bury them for daring to want a creative influence on thier character, more would step forward and the product would almost certainly improve.

 

[Ambiguous Turd]

He is the main attraction of the company so of course he gets compared to the other faces of the company from other era's. He is always compared to Hogan, Hart, HBK, Austin, Rock, HHH, Lesnar etc. And of course he is no Hogan, no one ever will be. However, he is definitely up there with the best in the company. My point is you never thought Cena's push would happen, but it did. Therefore it is entirely plausible CM Punk will one day be the top man in the company.

Yes it is possible. However, it is not just possible, but likely, that CM Punk will be one of the least popular main attractions in WWE history. And judging by his quiet reactions in many arenas, I think that is a very real possibility.

It simply is that interest in the product is deteriorating. Cena is holding up the fort, but as acknowledged, he certainly isn't getting anywhere near the ovations his predecessors received. And I don't see Punk getting the enthusiasm that Cena gets, be it cheers or boos. In many cases, he gets an apathetic reaction from the crowds.

Again, I think the person most responsible for that is Vince McMahon. He is not giving the audience any reason to actually cheer a majority of the Faces or Heels. They are just there, and that's about it.

It is a different era. Of course the Austin character wouldn't have worked now. It worked at the time, and Austin knew that. There is nothing to stop the superstars of today finding out what the audience wants and then attempt to create it.

Is that the Superstars' primary job or is that Creative's job? If it is the Superstars' job, then I have to ask what good it is even having a Creative department in this company?

Now, sure, talent can come up with ideas, but if you have Vince rejecting them and conditioning his talent with the mentality that "only Vince and his Creative department are the ones that should be coming up with character ideas", then what good does it do .... especially, considering his ideas have been lousy, these past few years?

A further point I would like to make is, what if the audience themselves wants another edgy character to be the WWE's marquee character? That is what my intuition tells me, which explains why Cena gets very mixed reactions and isn't enjoying the success of his predecessors. I think we live in a day and age where the fans still want someone along the lines of an Austin or Rock in the Main Event, but Vince isn't giving it to them.

So if that is true, this would boil down to Vince not giving the fans what they want, because his business ideologies are more important than what his fans want. That is basically what all this boils down to, I believe, and that Vince is trying to recondition his fans to think the way he wants them to think. The only problem I see is that fans are rejecting this, as people don't like to be told what to think in this day and age. And again, this is why you have less than enthusiastic crowds coming to WWE events.

Then they should actually research what their audiences want then. If you worked for a company and weren't been given the chance to prove yourself, would you make the effort to prove to your boss you deserved that promotion by going the extra mile? If you are ambitious you do. The superstars should give it a go.

In most businesses, yes. WWE is different, as I don't see any sign that Vince encourages his talent to think of ideas on their own. Hell, we heard the latest report out of Creative that if someone even utters something that Vince doesn't agree with (like turning Cena heel), they are embarrassed in front of the entire room and given a tongue-lashing. That is why people are discouraged to actually do this, for fear of getting on Vince's bad side.

So, it really is a pointless case, in their eyes.

The bottom-line problem with today's product is that new leadership is needed behind the scenes. Vince's involvement in the Creative team needs to come to an end. But it doesn't appear the man's ego will allow for it to happen, as he has too much pride to admit that perhaps the business passed him by. So, instead of being true to himself, he'll continue to destroy the business ... operating under the mentality that "everyone else is wrong and I'm right!"

And that's fine. I'm enjoying this little crash course he's on.

 

[tru fan]

I think that one of the biggest mistakes the WWE made was when the ECW teamed up with WCW in the invasion story. They should have kept the brands divided. Since DDP claimed to be the people’s champion, he should have faced the rock. I would have loved to see NWO vs. DX in a rivalry, and I would have loved to see Bill Goldberg involved in the story. Kronik was not used enough and I wish they would bring back the cruiserweight belt.

 

[Legacy]

My first ppv was No Way Out 2005. Personally I am not a fan of Pg. Pg takes the fun and the "cutting edge / in your face" style out of it. I used to find wrestling as a rebellious type of show. But know it is all lets all be friends and instead of setting you on fire I am going to put you in a headlock. I didn't watch the product or have the slightest on interest about pro wrestling back in the Attitude Era, but I have watched some of the videos and I believe that it is so much better than the Pg show we have today. But I still watch for some reason

 

[Razor]

I just now saw this one. I must be going blind or something. But here goes:

To add a comment about the six sided ring in regards to the comments made by Monroe, I will point out that TNA has barely reached the level of the incredibly boring ECW.

Actually, I would say that ECW isn't that boring. Sure, it only really has Christian and Swagger as the heavy hitters, and sure, the storylines and characters aren't that developed. But dammit, what do you expect from almost an entire roster of up and comers? And I would wager TNA hasn't even started to scrape ECW's non-boringness (no, that's not a word).

When I think of competing with WWE I think of this, "How did WCW do it?"

Oh, you mean fail. And fail hard. Only this time Vince isn't going to buy out most of the wrestlers' contracts and have them work for him. He's turning them out.

They did it by copying the WWE format and making it better.

Didn't WCW start the Attitude Era with NWO? I'd say the WWE copied WCW. ..and made it better.

They put on a live show (not taped like TNA where the spoilers are all over the internet).

Smackdown and ECW are taped. They're doing just fine for a show on a obscure station and a show with really no big draws, respectively.

They used the same ring. Over time they brought in familiar people. They put on solid PPVs.

Ring doesn't really matter if you use it right. Familiar people works if they're any good. Sadly, the WWE rejects TNA has been bringing in don't really cut the mustard, so to speak. Solid PPVs? TNA could do that if anything they ever did make any sense.

The thing that TNA could do that they haven't is bring in the tons of experienced talent for a long term deal and have them put over guys like Styles.

So. Hire 10 or 15 well-off talent just to job? That's a horrible investment of millions of dollars. Especially for 3 or 4 wrestlers to get over. That's..just really bad.

But having one or two guys come in here and there with no storyline just doesn't work. It's like watching a flea jump all around a floor... you don't know where it's going to end up which isn't good because it's not entertaining.

I suppose I follow the metaphor. Though I would have gone with an out of control car. That woulda ended up in a car wreck, which is really apt considering you're speaking of TNA.

They need to get a Monday night show and let people do what all of did during the Raw/Nitro era and flip back and forth between channels.

Lulz. A Monday TNA show would die a quick and violent death. Why would I flip from one entertaining show to TNA? That's like flipping from The Colbert Report to Rock of Love with Bret Michaels. Horrible idea.

Do the show live and generate interest by having continuity and bringing guys like Sid, Buff Bagwell, and others who've recently been mentioned as potentially coming back.

What the fuck is with your love affair for Psycho Sid. He wasn't that good. He definitely isn't good enough to save TNA, or breathe new life into the WWE. Shut up about Psycho Sid. Please.

The current plan has not worked in seven years, and until they do something different... the result will be the same.

Oh, you're speaking of TNA. So years of profit and PPVs and a new 2-hour time slot isn't improving? Damn. What is then?

Get rid of the ring, and bring in Bischoff. Get that Monday night show and go head to head with Raw before Angle follows Christian and jumps back to WWE.

Bischoff isn't a God. He can't fix that shit. A Monday night show will spell disaster, and who says WWE wants Angle back? Pfft.

What those guys are realizing is that they are not even being given the opportunity to truly compete.

They are in a fake wrestling company. Oh, unless you're speaking of competing against the WWE. Then they really should not have gone to TNA if they were really wanting to do that. Shoulda joined MMA.

 

[Shocky]

I have one, again. Triple H vs. Randy Orton, you know, not like it hasn't been done to death already over the last 2 months, let alone last 2 years, let alone 5 years, but now this is just getting flat out ridiculous. Not only have we lost count of how many times these two have faced each other, but now I'm losing track of how many damn times they've faced each other in a Last Man Standing Match. Seriously, this is the Third such gimmick match taht these two have had with each other, that I can think of. It's lazy fucking booking, and a glaring spotlight of whats wrong witht he WWE.

 

[Dirty Spamchez]

The WWE is going down the drain right now. It is completely boring with the storylines and whatnot. Raw has become the B show. Smackdown has become the A show. They're ruining everything for themselves and it'll all backfire on them sooner or later. They made Extreme Championship Wrestling, which was a fantastic product with the extremeness, to Extremely Crappy Wrestling, which is like plain old boring wrestling matches and promos, but seems a little interesting with Christian on the product and Hart Dynasty. The original ECW was awesome, why did they take it away? Because of new talents? Fucking ******s. The WWE doesn't think when they make decisions. There is nothing Extreme about "Extreme Championship Wrestling" anymore. They have completely killed the brand. Their A show right now is SmackDown but they don't realize that it is. They put so much focus on the "flagship show", Raw, when it completely sucks right now. Another huge mistake that they're making is letting go big names like Kennedy, Umaga (Even though they had a legit reason). What are they gonna do next, let go Big Show? Another HUGE mistake is letting the cruiserweights stay off the cards and terminating the cruiserweight championship. The cruiserweights are the best entertainers and competitors in the WWE. They put on the best show. Jimmy Wang Yang for example. They put him to job to Drew McIntyre in a dark match. Was' up wit' dat'? Let me bring up the Donald Trump thing, he sucks. He's just a freaking popularity magnet to the WWE. Everybody knows it's a freakin storyline. EVERYBODY. And what the hell is the creative team used for? Why don't they fire them to save some money. The superstars still ask for their own feuds/stroylines. And what's up with the WWE Title picture? Triple H vs Randy Orton... VIXX? It's becoming EXTREMELY boring watching these two go at it for almost 5 years already, especially in Last Man Standing matches. Give the title to MVP, Big Show... Even John Cena for G-d's sake. It's getting pointless watching these two get a win over eachother every other time they meet.

Now, I would like to ask you, what are your thoughts?

 

[Sharpshooter51]

I agree with you!

If I were booking things on Raw right now, I would have had MVP win the battle royal last night for #1 contendership just to see what could happen next. (I personally have never been a fan of MVP, I just don't see anything interesting in him, but I respect him]

then I'd have MVP take the title from Orton so HHH and Orton could have a Cell match to conclude the feud.

While I'm at it, Cena and Miz would begin an actual feud with Miz scoring cheap wins over Cena

and I'd have Kofi Regal and Matt Hardy feud over the US Title with the intent of pushing Matt Hardy [a personal fav of mine] to the WWE Title picture in October/November

 

[Blifferd221]

ageof...
your right ecw is extremely boring. even with with christian there, it doesnt help the entire show. cuz it overall sucks.
i dont really watch smackdown cuz i never have the time on fridays which sucks cuz jerichos on the show. but i read the spoilers....
i do disagree with you on stating that raw is bad.
RAW has the best wrestlers, its live, and is where all the excitment is.
also vince mcmahon only appears on raw.
they do need to chill with cena and orton... seeing them do the same crap gets very tiring, and i shouldnt feel that way with orton. orton is legit, but losing the title then getting it bad again gotta stoop.
watch also i bet you the bash will get bo buys, due to the fact that there was just a 3 hour special, then commerical free with a wwe title match last man standing, right before.

 

[InstantPhenomenal]

I disagree with some parts and agree with some parts. RAW has become the B show because of bad comedy skits. Now on the other hand i like this new ECW somewhat. ECW happens to be a little interesting. They have good wrestlers. But comparing this ECW to the old ECW is like comparing Batista's mic skills to The Rock's. The answer is "WTF"