General WWE Complaining & PG Rating Thread

[Cena's Little Helper]

I did forget those three.

Also, like I said, its more of a situation of programming oversaturation than anything. I also enjoy how you avoided telling me what exactly is so piss poor about the current programming, in your opinion. Im still waiting on that, TSnugs.

Thing is, you still have a much larger ME scene than ever, and its ever changing, via the draft. So I dont see how it can be called stale in comparison to eras past. Oversaturation of programming? fair enough.

So, please. PLEASE. What is so piss poor aboit todays current product?

What makes today's product so piss-poor is that there are essentially no story lines. If I remember correctly, there were only three really compelling feuds/factions last year: Shawn Michaels/HBK, La Familia/The Undertaker, and Glamarella. I honestly can't think of much else, bro.

For example, don't get me wrong, I think your favorite wrestler at the moment, John Cena, deserves to be in the main event. But, shouldn't we at least be able to answer the question, "Why is John Cena in the main event?" And, shouldn't we have a better answer than, "Because he sells merchandise?" Kayfabe, WWE gives me no reason as to why John Cena should constantly be fighting for the championship, or, for that matter, why Batista should be as well. Why is this?

Were the story lines of the Attitude Era raunchy and in poor taste? Undoubtedly, they were. But, they helped to keep things fresh and they allowed us to sympathize with the wrestlers by giving them a motive for their actions. For example, by the beginning of 1999, the Austin/McMahon saga had pretty much reached its climax, seeing as how Austin was now taking on a whole faction in The Corporation. So, how do they give closure to this feud (remember, closure is key here, and it is something that is sorely missed in today's product)? They introduce The Ministry of Darkness, with its leader, The Undertaker, having aspirations to take over McMahon's company. In hindsight, the emergence of The Ministry of Darkness allowed for three things: first, it ended McMahon's feud with Austin in a very plausible manner; second, it allowed a couple of The Corporation's members to turn face (or at least to 'tweeners) when Shane took over The Corporation; third, it planted the seeds for the McMahon-Helmsley faction that would come later in the year.

So, with these examples, I hope I have shown you why, relatively speaking, the product right now is piss-poor. In WWE, the entertainment is just as important as the wrestling; I think we can agree on that. Why then, does it fail to deliver on this?

 

[Mighty NorCal]

What makes today's product so piss-poor is that there are essentially no story lines. If I remember correctly, there were only three really compelling feuds/factions last year: Shawn Michaels/HBK, La Familia/The Undertaker, and Glamarella. I honestly can't think of much else, bro.

For example, don't get me wrong, I think your favorite wrestler at the moment, John Cena, deserves to be in the main event. But, shouldn't we at least be able to answer the question, "Why is John Cena in the main event?" And, shouldn't we have a better answer than, "Because he sells merchandise?" Kayfabe, WWE gives me no reason as to why John Cena should constantly be fighting for the championship, or, for that matter, why Batista should be as well. Why is this?



So, with these examples, I hope I have shown you why, relatively speaking, the product right now is piss-poor. In WWE, the entertainment is just as important as the wrestling; I think we can agree on that. Why then, does it fail to deliver on this?

Thank goodness. Someone with something tangible, that might actually be able to be passed off for an actual reason. Thankyou TSnugs

While I can semi agree with you on a lack of major storylines, I have to dissent and say there ARE storylines, they just arent nearly as bombastic as the ones in the attitude era. We are now seeing things cenetering more just aorund the title, beating one another for it. Which were the storylines back in the day, The Hogan days I mean. I mean....why was Hulk Hogan constantly fighting for the title? Ultimate Warrior? Bret Hart? Undertaker? same shit.

Bastista and Cena are title contenders becuase they lost their titles in under dubious conditions, and they win matches against high profile competition. Thats why Cena has been feuding with Show. Batista was put in the spot he has been in the last couple months becuase of the fact it was Orton who put him out in the first place, y'know?

More subtle, yes. Lack thereof? hardly. IMO. Yes, I agree you need to have entertaining storylines, at the same time though, I guess I dont feel I need overly complex storylines for them to be entertaining. "hey i dont like you, and I want to win the belt, so im gonna kick your ass" is fine enough for me.

You miss the complex mutli layered storylines of The Attitude era then. Fair enough. I still maintain however that those things were pretty isolated to that certain era of time. I dont feel like the storylines were overly complex back in the Hogan Days or The New Generation.

 

[Milkyway!]

Screw all this PG rating is going to be the end of the WWE crap. I'm about dadgum tired of it. Screw the bashing of everything on RAW, or ECW, they are both great shows. This is Milk's rant on how terrible everyones arguements have been as of late as to why the WWE sucks. Theres been at least 15 threads on all this hate for the WWE. The WWE deserves love. Milk, now shows WWE the love and respect they deserve by me.

Raw just put on one of the best Raw's I've ever seen since McMahon peed his pants when Austin fired that "Bang" gun at him. Yet I STILL saw people say that it was a horrible RAW, that wasn't very entertaining. Yet, the best injury angle I have ever seen happened. HHH returned, which was sorda a shock.

1. The Miz

The Miz got over even more than he normally did. This man is rising through the ranks faster than NASCAR drivers go 1/4 of a mile. His promos are simply amazing, and he was deffinetely one of the main vocal point of Raw for me this past Monday. Creative has done a wonderful job at booking him, and will continue to do so in my opinion. As long as they don't make Cena squash him when they actually wrestle. This could be Fued of the Year, no doupt.

2. Legacy

Legacy is a heel stable, with no compition right now. Yet everyone is continually complaining about how horrible they are. Even though they have one of the greatest superstars in all of the WWE at the moment, Randy Orton. And two men that are the future of the WWE. Furthermore, everything they have done, has been very heelish, and has been done in a very professional manner. Making me actually believe their constant beatdowns on everyone, is actually taking place. And at times making me actually hate my favorite wrestlers.

3. The Future of the business

Honestly? The future of the business is looking amazing right now. With Randy Orton, John Cena, Ted Dibiase, Kofi Kingston, MVP, Chris Jericho, Evan Bourne, John Morrison, Matt Hardy, Jeff Hardy, Edge, Christian, etc leading the newer generation in, and letting the old generation out. The WWE is in great hands. These few men can tell stories like no other, put on matches, and most have fairly nice charisma. How in the hell is the future of the WWE jeopradized when beaten down Undertaker, Shawn Michaels, and Batista leave. If anything it will do better. The few suprise appearances here and there, will cause merchandise to spike, and make people want to atend more of those mens hometown shows in hopes to see a little suprise appearance. This also allows new faces to step into certain scenes on screen, and off stage.

4. The WWE

Is the best wrestling business in the world today. No one can match the income they are making, the shows they are putting out, and the talent they have. I'm willing to say WWE is winning by a HUGE margin when it comes to any sort of compitition. So Vince isn't as in touch with the croud as he used to be? It doesn't mean hes writing shows for only himself. Hes trying, and his creative is doing a fine job as well. All things in the wrestling world are hit and miss. Sometimes, they rely on what they know might work, and you complain. Other times they take risks, try new things, and when they do, you complain.

5. PG rating

Is one of the best things, in my eyes, to ever happen to the WWE. The overall product hasn't changed much. But the fact is, blading is no longer a need due to no blood on pg rating television. Fuck, we've not really lost anything other than that. I've seen more innovative stuff in the WWE than I saw in the 5 years I watched ECW. Theres no need to complain about anything when it comes to the PG rating, because we've honestly lost nothing, other than blood. The loss of blood, is a gain in the wrestlers life. Actual blading can be dangerous, and severely cut a mans life if done wrong, or too much blood is lost during the course of the match. Its a dangerous process, and isn't needed by any means necassary.


So come the hell on what do you want? Are you going to constantly nag, and complain about horirble the wrestling world is? As you continually watch it, and continually post on wrestling forums about such manners? Its not like the WWE actually reads your posts anyways. You're only making the IWC look worse and worse at each passing day. Theres a reason "Exclude me from the IWC" threads exsist here on this forum. No one really wants to hear constant bitching, and complaining by any means neccassary. We're all here to debate one another, have some fun, and yeah point out our likes and dislikes of the wrestling business. But as of late, everyone has just gone to far. And I'd love to know why, or the reasoning behind such things.

 

[NtraintoBrooklyn]

ok i agree that the wwe will be in good hands in the future with guys like swagger,cena,evan bourne and the rest of them
BUT!
i have to disagree with everything else

the pg rating sucks i dont know about anybody else but i love violence,sex,and suggestive language on my programming
i started watch wwf/e in 1997 because it was so fucking entertaining i mean we had dx the oddities job squad sexual chocolate nation of domination the corporation stone cold the rock bra and panties matches,hell in the cell and hardcore matches
they would push the bar every week
i mean we had undertaker sacraficing humans every week for crying out loud
now it seems like we have to deal with hornswoggle dancing in the ring with kids or rey mysterio hugging babies in the front row, im not even gonna mention cenas stupid "fair" 2009 hulkamania gimmick
point blank the fans will continue to complain until something is done about it
we miss the real wwe
we dont care what the rating is as long as it goes back to something that grown adults can enjoy
sucks that we all have to suffer because linda mcmahon works for the board of ed.............smh

 

[The Todd]

the pg rating sucks i dont know about anybody else but i love violence,sex,and suggestive language on my programming

Well there's plenty of programming that does that. How would wwe be better off if they did that? they NEED kids to buy the merchandise. They can't watch a programme that has all that stuff in.

i started watch wwf/e in 1997 because it was so fucking entertaining

That wasn't a "normal" time for wrestling. It was aimed at kids before then. They were desperate then for ratings, now it's about money.

sexual chocolate

That was good?

bra and panties matches

Is it really hard to search for porn?

hell in the cell and hardcore matches

They are better off scarcely used like nowadays. There's more skill in a regular wrestling match rather than a spotfest.

i mean we had undertaker sacraficing humans every week for crying out loud

Just watch horror films for crying out loud. Wrestling doesn't need that.

now it seems like we have to deal with hornswoggle dancing in the ring with kids or rey mysterio hugging babies in the front row

So roughly three minutes out of six hours of programming a week you don't like. You fail to mention the brilliant match ups on Smackdown every week, the entertaining promos on Raw and the youngsters shining on ECW and Superstars.

im not even gonna mention cenas stupid "fair" 2009 hulkamania gimmick

Oh yeah, the most entertaining, most over, biggest superstar on the show. Very stupid.

point blank the fans will continue to complain until something is done about it

No, the fans still stuck in the attitude era will do. Plenty of fans enjoy the product. You don't speak for everyone.

we miss the real wwe

Get a tv that works then. If not, dailymotion and youtube are your best bet.

we dont care what the rating is as long as it goes back to something that grown adults can enjoy

Well Vince does care with ratings, and more importantly money, and he cares more about his target audience than you.

 

[SavageTaker]

The Attitude Era fans who believe and are in agreement that the PG Rating in the WWE is ruining wrestling are in my opinion wrong.

I started watching wrestling in the Attitude Era and I won't lie, I liked and enjoyed that era. But I am different than a lot of the fans from the Attitude Era. I realize that things can't always be the same forever and that's why I realize things need to change in wrestling for it to not get stale and boring. The PG rating did just that. Thanks to the PG Rating we are entering a new era in professional wrestling. This new era is going to be just like how the Hogan era was. It is going to target the kids until they reach a certain age. Once they reach that age the era is going to change again to something similar to what the Attitude Era was. It’s called a cycle and it happens in wrestling all the time. The PG Rating is getting kids to become fans of wrestling. Once those kids reach that certain age the WWE is going to change what they are doing to make sure wrestling is still interesting and those kids remain fans. In my opinion this is going to do more good for the wrestling industry long term than it will do harm.

Now with that in mind I have been able to move on from the Attitude Era unlike some other fans from the Attitude Era. I understand the business and I actually like and enjoy the product we get today. Yes, there is times that I will roll my eyes and question some of the different things done, but I am willing to look past those things and it they don’t lessen my enjoyment of today’s product.

I am going to go brand by brand and state the things that I like about each of them and I will only focus on their positives and not the negatives on each brand.

I am going to start with ECW. I like how I am able to see talent grow and develop on ECW and when someone moves on to bigger and better things I will be glad to be able to say that I saw Jack Swagger wrestle when he was just a rookie in the business. I also like that on ECW they are featuring some very good and solid matches week in and week out. The wrestlers are also given a nice amount of time for their matches which I think will help them in the future. Overall, I like what they are doing with the ECW brand and I can’t wait until some of the wrestlers are on either Smackdown or Raw in the main events fighting for the World Titles.

Now, Smackdown, my favorite brand. I really like that they have a nice mixture of talent. They have some veterans and they also have some rookies. I think it is a nice blend of people on the brand. I also like some of the feuds they currently have going. I am really liking the Mysterio and Jericho feud thus far. I am also liking how the main event scene is looking. As of right now I am really intrigued as to how things are going to be in the main event since CM Punk won the World Heavyweight Champion. Other than those 2 things I like everything else going on too. The matches are usually good and entertaining. I can’t wait to see some of the things that are going to happen on Smackdown.

Now as far as Raw goes I’m actually liking some of the things happening there too. Like Smackdown they also have a nice blend of talent. They have a few veterans but they also have a couple of rookies that they are building up. Thus far I have enjoyed seeing some of these rookies and can’t wait to see what the future holds for them. I am also liking the development of Legacy. Even though people say they get beat up by everyone week in and week out, I say you have to start somewhere right? I know if I was in their position I would prefer getting a chance to main event on Raw and get beat up by the top talent than not being sure if I am even going to be on the show that night. I am also somewhat intrigued as to what is going to happen in the main event now that Batista is out with and injury and Triple H has returned.

In summation, I am really enjoying and liking a lot of the things that are going on right now. I can’t wait to see some of the things that are going to happen in the WWE. I agree with you Milky in your assessment that the WWE is awesome right now and at this point I think the WWE’s future is looking bright

 

[NtraintoBrooklyn]

well done sir
ill admit smackdown is still very entertaining
i cant take that away from them
and you really think cena is the most over, and entertaining wrestler in the wwe right now?>
he gets booed at the garden everytime and is limited to about 5 moves besides kicks and punches
cena was entertaining from 2002-2004 more so as a heel
and yes sexual chocolate was funny

all im saying is that im a grown fuckin man
if wwe is truly targeting males between 14-35 then they need to step it up again
and no im not stuck in the attitude era im stuck in the tv-14 era where we can all talk like adults and not worry about covering our childrens ears ALL THE TIME

the wrestling is great in fact the matches have been better than i can remember im not complaining about the actual sport
i just miss the great promos,hardcore action, vulgar comedy and the occasional nipple slip
i that so wrong?
cant wwe just make a show that targets kids
its simple
wwe superstars every thursday 3 matches
dj gabriel vs zack ryder
hornswoggle vs jimmy wang yang
and in the main event john cena vs cm punk
for the wwe kids championship lol

im probably gonna get shitted on for saying all this but come on there has to be millions who aggree with me

 

[unique.enigma.666]

I completely agree with you man. I don't have the chance to watch it on telly because I don't have sky sports but if I can find the full shows I watch them via youtube and they do a great job. There are 2 other things the PG rating means we dont get to see or hear one is swearing. Fuck me I don't care at all, I dont care whether they swear or not. The other is the divas posing for Playboy Magazine. If you want to see naked women watch porn. Back onto WWE and your thread, you're completely right in making this thread because as you said people on here just post threads against WWE.

What I like is how they're not just pushing Morrison, Miz has had his fair shot in the spotlight recently aswell. He is annoying but so was Cena not long after his heel turn in '03. Miz can be a future US Champ sometime in the near future, hes being used properly as is Morrison whose had an awesome run since he first debuted, multi time tag team champion, ECW Champ, IC Champ. I like Legacy right now, the beatdown they done on Batista was priceless (pardon the pun), great way to write an injured guy from telly, which lead to Hunter's return at the end of the night which was great. Priceless becoming no. 1 contenders for the Unified Titles is a great idea aswell, they can make something great of a feud from Colons/Priceless, maybes end it in a ladder match at SummerSlam. SD! In my opinion is the best show right about now, even with 'Taker off our screens for the time being its doing amazingly well, Jeff is my alltime favourite guy, I wish he would've remained WHC, but with plans on turning Punk heel, I wont complain, in past feds hes made a great heel. This Rey/Y2J feud has been great aswell, giving the IC Title more prestige by being defended 2 PPV's in a row, with a potential third is great. The commentators aswell, Grisham and JR make a great team. As for ECW, I'm liking it, its gonna take me a bit longer to get into the Hart Dynasty faction because this weeks ECW was the first one I really sat down and watched in a long time, but they're impressive, Natalya as there mouthpiece is great, gives her more of a role, what I'd like to see however is the stable moved to Raw to feud with Legacy, imagine the feud leading up to a classic Survivor Series match? But whatever they do from here on in should be sweet.

 

[Little Jerry Lawler]

well done sir
ill admit smackdown is still very entertaining
i cant take that away from them
and you really think cena is the most over, and entertaining wrestler in the wwe right now?>
he gets booed at the garden everytime and is limited to about 5 moves besides kicks and punches
cena was entertaining from 2002-2004 more so as a heel
and yes sexual chocolate was funny

all im saying is that im a grown fuckin man
if wwe is truly targeting males between 14-35 then they need to step it up again
and no im not stuck in the attitude era im stuck in the tv-14 era where we can all talk like adults and not worry about covering our childrens ears ALL THE TIME

the wrestling is great in fact the matches have been better than i can remember im not complaining about the actual sport
i just miss the great promos,hardcore action, vulgar comedy and the occasional nipple slip
i that so wrong?
cant wwe just make a show that targets kids
its simple
wwe superstars every thursday 3 matches
dj gabriel vs zack ryder
hornswoggle vs jimmy wang yang
and in the main event john cena vs cm punk
for the wwe kids championship lol

im probably gonna get shitted on for saying all this but come on there has to be millions who aggree with me

Here we go again with the five moves concerning Cena. It doesn't matter how many moves you do, it's how you work matches and the crowd entertained. Shelton does more moves than Cena so are you telling me than he is better?

Mark Henry hasn't done anything in his career worth noting so Sexual Chocolate is just a big nothing to me. If you want the occasional nipple slip or vulgar language, go to your nearest strip club or watch some old Attitude Era episodes of RAW because PG is here to stay and there's nothing wrong with that.

 

[JenovasWitness]

oh boy i give up...........
it just sucks that we have to suffer because linda mcmahon wants to protect her career

I think Linda McMahon is pretty secure where she is, PG-rating not withstanding.

This is a good business decision by Vince and the WWE. It was what turned the WWF into a mainstream business back in the '80s. Hulk Hogan was a kid friendly hero that parents were not afraid to expose to their children. Therefore, instead of just one dude buying a ticket, a hot dog, a beer and a T-shirt at a WWF show, you had an entire family coming, buying dinner, buying foam fingers and title belts for the kids, etc.

The wider your audience, the more revenue that you will generate and the more successful you become. This is about MONEY because this is a BUSINESS. Does Vince care that the fan boys are unhappy that his wrestlers are refraining from saying the word ass on TV and that there are no softcore porn Diva matches? Hell no. And he is wise to not limit himself in that way.

As for hardcore matches, Hell in a Cell, etc. Lance Storm makes very good and credible comments about Booking 101. These types of matches have their place, at the end of a long and heated feud so that the confrontation can be settled once and for all. That makes these types of matches special must-see attractions that will generate PPV buys which equals a suvvessful wrestling company. Too many of these types of matches and the product just becomes a watered down, can-you-top-this spot fest.

WWE is going down the right road to secure it's future. There are several superstars that are stepping up to take the place of our favourite superstars from times gone by. There are several positives that we miss out on if all we do is fixate on what we perceive to be negatives.

 

[King Patrick Star]

I must say, I agree with the Milkyway!!! The WWE is awesome for every single reason he stated. There is nothing wrong with the WWE. What’s wrong is us as fans just always want one of two things, either we want something different, or we want something more. The WWE right now is putting out 4 shows, 6 hours of entertainment per week. That is roughly between 24 to 30 hours a week of Sports and Entertainment. Take that and add 3 to 4 hours a month for a PPV and you have 27 to 34 hours a month, plus the once in a blue moon special, whether it be a 3 hour Raw, or a Saturday Night’s Main Event and you have a lot of exposure for one month.

This PG rating cry that a lot of you are doing is really not necessary. The WWE is trying to sell a product. Adults are smart (or at least should be) enough to not “waste” money. Kids, on the other hand, want to buy everything. If I had a something to sell, don’t you think it would be easier to target the ones who “want this” and “want that” rather than someone who has to think, “Do I really want that or should I use my $20 on something more useful??” If the product “sucks”, like some of you say, then just turn it off and stop talking about it, or watch Orlando Championship Wrestling, better known as the “Alternative”.

Another point I want to make is directed towards the people who “compare” the Red show to the Blue show. I hate to repeat myself, but face it, Monday is the day where today’s stars shine. Raw is the flagship show and that’s why all the “Names” are there. Smackdown, although not proven or stated, is the 3rd stage breeding ground for the WWE. In case you don’t realize this, ECW would be the 2nd stage and FCW would be the 1st. Yes there are stars with name value on Smackdown, but people in this industry do not strive to work on Tuesdays. Believe me, why would anyone shoot for 2nd place??

As far as the future of the business, I truly believe, the only chance in history for the WWE to go bankrupt was right before Mick Foley won the WWE Title on Raw. WCW was the only company that could have taken them out for good, but guess what, we didn’t see Eric on Raw on March 2001, we saw Shane on Nitro.

 

[Hacksaw Highway]

I for one haven't suffered from the rating. Smack Down is the best best it's been in quite a while, and ECW is on another up-swing after going downhill back before No Way Out. Raw has been quite boring for me lately, mostly due to my dislike of Legacy, Batista, the Santina/Vicki feud and the burrying of Big Show. However, Raw does have plenty good, too. Miz, who I've liked since his original heel turn on Smack Down like 2 yaers ago, is finally showing that he's worthy of a huge push. The return of Triple H is also huge news, love him or hate him he's a damn good wrestler who can only improve the product. I miss the blood somewhat, blood is so effective when used properly, but it's by no means important enough to make or break a show for me. All in all, the PG rating is just fine.

 

[Viola Moonlight]

Ohkay...

I have said before that PG ratings should be lifted, but I have to agree with some aspects stated. The WWE is doing fine as a BUSINESS to make MONEY, however the purpose of the BUSINESS besides MONEY is sorta meh...

The future is good... no the future is f'n fantastic. Lets just hope WWE's creative, management & bookers dont screw the wrestlers over & the wrestlers smarten up & dont screw the WWE.

Legacy is actually not booked as it should. They are starting to do something but meh... They should of built up Priceless a lot more into the uppermid card before joining RKO. However, lets hope all will be well in the end.

If the WWE starts to fix up the small leaks in their ship, then I will start watching again permanetly. But I will say this, the show Superstars is wasting away good potential fueds in one short match. Get rid of that show and focus more on the other shows.

 

[CH David]

Ok like SavageTaker, I myself grew up with the Attitude Era, and still think it was amazing. But I agree that PG is probably the best bet right now. The only thing I would add to it, since it is PG now, just come back with those tv promos saying "Kids, don't try this at home". Just to add to the safety of the programming and keeping kids safe. Eh that was a little bit of a tangent.

But Milkyway, I agree with you on all of it. Miz is awesome and one of the main reasons that I watch Raw, because this thing with Cena he has going is very entertaining. I just hope they don't squash him in their inevitable matchup. Legacy is the other reason I watch, as Orton is awesome IMO, and I like seeing DiBiase and Rhodes growing and maturing right now.

But you also asked what I want. And it isn't much, but all I want is there to be new feuds. I thought on Raw the feud between Cena and Miz would officially kick off, but Big Show comes out. I thought they were done with that at Extreme Rules. If it turns out to be a big feud between all three to start, I will retract my complaints about Show still going against Cena. And I would like the same for Orton, get some new blood going against him instead of either Triple H, Batista, and Shane for that matter.

 

[jerseydevil]

I think what alot of people complaining about the "PG" rating and being stuck on the Attitude Era are forgetting is that what Vince and the WWE are doing are just grooming the next generation of fans. When we were kinds back in the 80's/early 90's the superstars were more cartoon/superhero type characters and as we got older thats when the Attitude Era started with more "real" or "adult" themed stars.

Wrestling goes in cycles...in another 5 years or so when the kids that Cena and the others are marketed towards are older and have their own disposable income, I'm sure we will see a change in the product. Its just going to take some time for the next Austin, Rock, DX, nWo to develop

 

[avi01]

Bah I`d just say WWE has its ups and downs.
Yeah I`m a huge fan of the attitude era but I watch today`s product for what it is. Yeah PG rating, kinda remove some very entertaining stuff out there but doesn`t necessary mean they can`t put a good show under PG. They absolutely can. Thing is that recently, the simply aren`t.
WWE is not that awesome imo but certainly far from unwatchable. When compared to 98-2001, today`s WWE will always loose. But again things changed, players changed. But there`s a lot of problem in WWE today but it still has its good part.
Take Smack Down for example. Many may disagree, but imo Smack Down is the real deal. This show feels fresh to me. On the other hand, RAW is a bore fest and that`s supposed to be the A-Brand.
ECW? Wouldn`t even bother. Don`t get me wrong, it is a decent show but I`m also a huge fan of the original ECW. So seriously, I see this as a joke. Change the name then yeah but right now, this one is laughable to me.
Now the players. First the heels. WWE can`t complain about this. Orton, Jericho and Edge are brilliant. However faces, they are failing. Cena is like JR would say controversial. They push him down the viewers throats and fans tend to get tired of him often. Same for HHH tbh. He really gets tiring...specially as a face.Batista? Give me a break. The two faces I really like are well Taker and Michaels. Addtoo that some re-hashed feuds like Evolution break up. Meh.

So WWE is not that awesome. It won`t be as good as in its glory days. But it is a watchable product imo. However there`s so much fixing to do but unfortunately they doesn`t seem to realize it. I do believe the death of WCW brought the worse out of WWE. I wished WCW was still here, bringing some strong competition and getting the best out of WWE.

 

[The Todd]

well done sir

Thank you

ill admit smackdown is still very entertaining
i cant take that away from them

That's good. If raw really pisses you off just watch Smackdown.

and you really think cena is the most over, and entertaining wrestler in the wwe right now?>

Yep

he gets booed at the garden everytime

Not by everyone though. MSG is one of the most smarkiest places the WWE go. No babyface gets a brilliant reaction there. All around the country Cena's pop is consistently in the top three of the night.

and is limited to about 5 moves besides kicks and punches

This is the worst arguement in the history of arguments. Hulk Hogan had one. The Rock had five. Austin had three. HBK has five. HHH has four. Batista has four. Hell no one has more than five unless you count sleeper holds, headlocks etc.

cena was entertaining from 2002-2004 more so as a heel

He wasn't as marketable though. That is what is important. Many people find modern day Cena entertaining.

and yes sexual chocolate was funny

Your opinion. I bet it isn't in many peoples.

all im saying is that im a grown fuckin man

Hey, me too! Well, in this country I am. Might not be in your country. Who knows?

if wwe is truly targeting males between 14-35 then they need to step it up again

Well i'm sure it is about age 6-35. If it was 14 it would be tv-14 (Ithink that's what it's called in the US). They're doing fine.

and no im not stuck in the attitude era im stuck in the tv-14 era where we can all talk like adults and not worry about covering our childrens ears ALL THE TIME

Not wwe's fault that the world is too politically correct now.

the wrestling is great in fact the matches have been better than i can remember im not complaining about the actual sport

Good 'cos you're right, the match ups now are sublime.

i just miss the great promos,hardcore action, vulgar comedy and the occasional nipple slip

Cena, Jericho and Edge consistently deliver great promos. Hardcore action is too overrated. I enjoy it more when it is used sporadically. You want vulgar comedy? There's plenty of that on tv or at local theaters. It was never brilliant anyway. Nipple slip? Really?

i that so wrong?

No. Except for the nip slip stuff. Nipples aren't hard to find.

cant wwe just make a show that targets kids

They do. Four of them a week.

its simple
wwe superstars every thursday 3 matches
dj gabriel vs zack ryder
hornswoggle vs jimmy wang yang
and in the main event john cena vs cm punk
for the wwe kids championship lol

What a line up! Problem is not even kids care about Wang Yang, Ryder and Gabriel. Hornswoggle is for kids, but it's for 20 seconds per episode. Is it hard to ignore? And Cena is cared about by everyone, that's why it is so loud when he is in action. And Punk's character is currently the most interesting. Is he face? Is he heel?

im probably gonna get shitted on for saying all this but come on there has to be millions who aggree with me

There will be millions who disagree.

 

[DeadMan5000]

First of all, who cares who is more marketable in the WWE? You guys sound like youre part or the creative team. You guys can't do nothing about it whether you like it or not. Shelton Benjamin to me is really entertaining to watch, where as Cena to me is like watching paint dry.

I have been watching wrestling for a while. Its not like I just started watching 2 years ago. I have watched for 14 years.

 

[The Todd]

First of all, who cares who is more marketable in the WWE?

WWE is a business. If they push non-marketable wrestlers they will lose fans, lose money, and go bankrupt meaning we won't have wrestling to watch. THAT is why.

You guys sound like youre part or the creative team. You guys can't do nothing about it whether you like it or not.

And so do people who say Shelton should be pushed. Where's the fun if you don't act like you're part of creative?

Shelton Benjamin to me is really entertaining to watch, where as Cena to me is like watching paint dry.

The guy who portrays the come from the jaws of defeat to win is less entertaining than a guy who loses five minute matches all year and jumps off a ladder at WrestleMania?

I have been watching wrestling for a while. Its not like I just started watching 2 years ago. I have watched for 14 years.

Congratulations. What are you trying to get at? Because you've watched more than me I am not entitled to an opinion. You have aired yours, it has gotten picked apart. It's what happens on a forum.

 

[Milkyway!]

and you really think cena is the most over, and entertaining wrestler in the wwe right now?>

That is what he said, isn't it? Prove to me that John Cena isn't the best worker in the business, most entertaining, and the biggest draw right now, and I'll or anyone else with half a brain will gladly tell you John Cena is in the top 5 best superstars to ever grace us in the WWE. Simple as that.

he gets booed at the garden everytime and is limited to about 5 moves besides kicks and punches

Are we talking about the same MSG here? Or like, FTS's garden in texas? Because I'm telling you right now, I've never heard such a thing. Cena gets cheers at the garden everytime. The only time I really can't recall him getting uber chants (Since hes turned into a big star of course) is because it was considered "cool" to hate John Cena. Which was obsurd in the first place.

ROFLMFAO REALLY???? FIVE FUCKING MOVES???? John Cena is the best professional wrestler in the world right now, par none. Son, let me tell you a few things about a man named Hulk Hogan. His move set consisted of, a slam, and a leg drop. With some punches. Of course, I'm not denying the fact that Hulk Hogan could wrestle, just look at some of his Saturday night main event matches, he could wrestle. The fans didn't want to see him wrestle. Now lets relate this to John Cena, wait, you following me? I hope so. John Cena is like Hulk Hogan in that he does what the croud wants him to do, and knows what the croud wants. The croud, eats out of John Cena's hands more often than not. Technical wrestlers are good to watch, but your heroes Austin, and The Rock proved, 5 moves, can make a match.

cena was entertaining from 2002-2004 more so as a heel

Cena has been entertaining since day 1 honestly. Today hes still proving that with every match he put on. Every promo he cuts.

all im saying is that im a grown fuckin man

ZOMG yay for you!

if wwe is truly targeting males between 14-35 then they need to step it up again

Not really, they are doing just fine where they going with this. Some of it may even be a little unauthodox for the PG rating.

and no im not stuck in the attitude era im stuck in the tv-14 era where we can all talk like adults and not worry about covering our childrens ears ALL THE TIME

I'm just going to pretend I'm flying an airplane, and try to make sense as to what you just said. WEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE, OH I GOT IT! Its a show targeted at children. Not 14 year olds. Children are a key part of socioty, and if we paint a picture that its okay for them to go around cursing, beating people until they bleed, and telling their teachers to go eat some pie, then theres going to be something seriously wrong with tomorrows world. These new wrestling days, we don't have to worry about that, at all.

This also has the chance to pull women into the wrestling fanbase. I don't know a single woman that doesn't look like a male, that watches the WWE, outside of ones who look like males, outside of this forum. I don't know about you, but most females enjoy seeing hot men, I.E. John Cena. But they don't really feel like going through the steps of gruesome blood, nasty talk, and the like, to see him wrestle. Now they can enjoy the same form of entertainment, for the exact same reason we can.

the wrestling is great in fact the matches have been better than i can remember im not complaining about the actual sport

Then shut the hell up, and stop complaining about the nasty stuff. This sport is about WRESTLING. Thats why is called World WRESTLING Entertainment. Don't get me wrong, entertainment, is a large part of the show, but not in the way you attitude era fans see it as.

i just miss the great promos,hardcore action, vulgar comedy and the occasional nipple slip
i that so wrong?

Theres still great promos, if you watched Extreme Rules, theres still hardcore action, they are targeting CHILDREN if you want your children to watch vulger comedy and possibly repeat it, then carry on, and seriously pull up your search engine and just type "Porn" if you want it that bad.

 

[RVDgurl]

Ya know, the WWE is kinda awesome. I could go into how Legacy is the best faction in all of wrestling right now. Or how Chris Jericho is so damn good it almost makes his opponents look bad. Or how CM Punk is ready to win over all the non believers (if they actually go through with a heel turn). But I'm gonna just throw out one thing that makes the WWE awesome right now:

ECW - Hands down the best thing about the company. ECW has a total roster of, what, about 12 or 13 guys? Yep. And they make it work. Christian, Jack Swagger, Tommy Dreamer, Evan Bourne, Tyson Kidd, Nattie Neidhart and David Hart Smith are all worth tuning in for. These names (with the exception of Dreamer) are the future of the company. That's pretty fucking exciting. And let's not forget that the WWE's best combination of announcer's call ECW home. That's right- JR, Cole and the King have nothing on Matt Striker. I hated him as a wrestler- but holy shit- this guy is entertaining as the voice of ECW.

 

[Razor]

Screw all this PG rating is going to be the end of the WWE crap. I'm about dadgum tired of it. Screw the bashing of everything on RAW, or ECW, they are both great shows. This is Milk's rant on how terrible everyones arguements have been as of late as to why the WWE sucks. Theres been at least 15 threads on all this hate for the WWE. The WWE deserves love. Milk, now shows WWE the love and respect they deserve by me.

So. We're getting a thread about how the WWE doesn't suck. Score. Wasn't there a few of these yesterday? I kid, I kid.

Raw just put on one of the best Raw's I've ever seen since McMahon peed his pants when Austin fired that "Bang" gun at him. Yet I STILL saw people say that it was a horrible RAW, that wasn't very entertaining. Yet, the best injury angle I have ever seen happened. HHH returned, which was sorda a shock.

You thought yesterday's was one of the most entertaining? OK. I suppose that'd be legit. At least you didn't pick the one 2 weeks ago. Abysmal, that was. It was the first Raw in 3 years I almost changed the channel on.

1. The Miz

The Miz got over even more than he normally did. This man is rising through the ranks faster than NASCAR drivers go 1/4 of a mile. His promos are simply amazing, and he was deffinetely one of the main vocal point of Raw for me this past Monday. Creative has done a wonderful job at booking him, and will continue to do so in my opinion. As long as they don't make Cena squash him when they actually wrestle. This could be Fued of the Year, no doupt.

I gotta say, Miz isn't doing anything. He had the crowd with him for 2 minutes of his last promo. After that, they didn't care anymore. Everyone seems to think the Miz is doing great because he's dissing Cena. There's a difference between saying what you wanna hear and being good on the mic.
This is not going to be Feud of the Year. Reserve that for the Jericho/Undertaker feud I'm waiting for.

And since when has Cena ever squashed someone in a match? Even when he goes over Cena makes them look great. Did you see Swagger vs. Cena a few months ago? Cena is going to make Miz look like gold.

2. Legacy

Legacy is a heel stable, with no compition right now. Yet everyone is continually complaining about how horrible they are. Even though they have one of the greatest superstars in all of the WWE at the moment, Randy Orton. And two men that are the future of the WWE. Furthermore, everything they have done, has been very heelish, and has been done in a very professional manner. Making me actually believe their constant beatdowns on everyone, is actually taking place. And at times making me actually hate my favorite wrestlers.

Lulz, Orton one of the greatest. Please, what makes him the greatest? Looking like he's constantly constipated? Being really angry? Pausing every three words? I know heels are supposed to take their time, getting the crowd anxious and what not, but damn. This goes past heel promo into horrible promo. Sorry, but Orton is the one thing I hate in the WWE right now. And not because he's a heel.

And Legacy is a heel stable. They should be beating everyone down 3 to 1. But it's when Priceless does nothing but looking angry that I'm forced to say "Why am I afraid of them?" and when they get squashed by Shane McMahon, then turn around and try to look strong against Batista, it doesn't make much sense. I'm just sayin'. Though I don't hate on Legacy for Priceless. They're starting to do something. I hate on them because of Orton.

3. The Future of the business

Honestly? The future of the business is looking amazing right now. With Randy Orton, John Cena, Ted Dibiase, Kofi Kingston, MVP, Chris Jericho, Evan Bourne, John Morrison, Matt Hardy, Jeff Hardy, Edge, Christian, etc leading the newer generation in, and letting the old generation out. The WWE is in great hands. These few men can tell stories like no other, put on matches, and most have fairly nice charisma. How in the hell is the future of the WWE jeopradized when beaten down Undertaker, Shawn Michaels, and Batista leave. If anything it will do better. The few suprise appearances here and there, will cause merchandise to spike, and make people want to atend more of those mens hometown shows in hopes to see a little suprise appearance. This also allows new faces to step into certain scenes on screen, and off stage.

I gotcha here. I won't whine about Orton anymore in this post. That no-ratings asshole.

4. The WWE

Is the best wrestling business in the world today. No one can match the income they are making, the shows they are putting out, and the talent they have. I'm willing to say WWE is winning by a HUGE margin when it comes to any sort of compitition. So Vince isn't as in touch with the croud as he used to be? It doesn't mean hes writing shows for only himself. Hes trying, and his creative is doing a fine job as well. All things in the wrestling world are hit and miss. Sometimes, they rely on what they know might work, and you complain. Other times they take risks, try new things, and when they do, you complain

.

Vince is totally in touch with the crowd today. That's why he's making the money he's making, getting the ratings he's getting.

5. PG rating

Is one of the best things, in my eyes, to ever happen to the WWE. The overall product hasn't changed much. But the fact is, blading is no longer a need due to no blood on pg rating television. Fuck, we've not really lost anything other than that. I've seen more innovative stuff in the WWE than I saw in the 5 years I watched ECW. Theres no need to complain about anything when it comes to the PG rating, because we've honestly lost nothing, other than blood. The loss of blood, is a gain in the wrestlers life. Actual blading can be dangerous, and severely cut a mans life if done wrong, or too much blood is lost during the course of the match. Its a dangerous process, and isn't needed by any means necassary.

The only people who complain about the PG rating are those who wanna see sex, drugs, and violence on everything they watch. The reason teh WWE isn't pandering to them is because once they mature, you've lost them. The PG rating is the best thing they could do. They'll keep the kids, they'll keep the parents, and they'll keep the adults who are watching because it's what they do. No one is going to stop watching because Jericho didn't blade when he got punched in that spot or because Mark Henry didn't go Sexual Chocolate all over Natalya.

So come the hell on what do you want? Are you going to constantly nag, and complain about horirble the wrestling world is? As you continually watch it, and continually post on wrestling forums about such manners? Its not like the WWE actually reads your posts anyways. You're only making the IWC look worse and worse at each passing day. Theres a reason "Exclude me from the IWC" threads exsist here on this forum. No one really wants to hear constant bitching, and complaining by any means neccassary. We're all here to debate one another, have some fun, and yeah point out our likes and dislikes of the wrestling business. But as of late, everyone has just gone to far. And I'd love to know why, or the reasoning behind such things.

I don't like constant bitching either. Especially from the people who continuously threaten "I'm not watching this anymore!"...but continue. Or the people who constantly want a Flaming Table Barbed Wire Battle Royal.

And besides, we really only differ on Orton. That's because I hate the waste of main-event space that he is. I can't see what's so great about him for the life of me.

 

[Ambiguous Turd]

and see, this is what im not getting. How? whats so different? You have main eventers that are established and steady, mostly pure wrestling (although I would certainley not say thats the case with RAW)

tell me whats so different with the way things are done now, and how they were done in the Hogan and new generation eras? I see the exact same basics to be honest. I really dont get how its so much different, or worse. Your a smart guy. Enlighten me, please.

Before I continue, let's pause and take a look at the poll. We are currently looking at 81 participants, and I am hoping to at least get 19 more, so we can at least have a sample of 100 people.

Forget about the Era one began watching for just a moment, and let's examine how many people are Satisfied with the current product.

Out of 81 people:


Very Satisfied: 22
Apathetic: 30
Very Dissatisfied: 29


So according to the sample, the people who are Satisfied with the Product are the minority. Most people are Apathetic to the Product. And the Runner Up are those that are Very Dissatisfied with the product. And those people aren't just the Attitude Era fans, but also the Hogan Era Fans, as well. Very interesting.

I think this should be a clear sign to those fans that love today's product, that not as many people find today's product as enjoyable as you think. Rather, they are apathetic to the product or Dissatisfied with it altogether. Why do they watch? Out of blind loyalty, perhaps? They've watched for years, and it was a part of their childhood, and they hate to tune it off, altogether? Those would be my logical guesses. But I certainly wouldn't take their viewership for granted, like Vince seems to be doing.

Alright, and to give you the response you asked for last night. Ironically enough, these are the same arguments I have made over and over and over again on the Forum. So it isn't anything new. And some of my arguments completely echo Murfish's arguments, as he sees a lot of the same things I see.

Now, like I suggested yesterday, let's take a look at some of the things that were featured in each of the different Eras and compare that to what we see today. I am not saying that I need ALL of these elements to return, as some elements such as # of PPV's conflict between Eras thus making it impossible, however hopefully, this will provide a better picture of SOME of the elements I am looking for to be included in today's Era:

Hogan Era

Interesting Characters/Gimmicks

Prominence on Main Event

Prominence on Mid_Card

Prominence on Tag Team Wrestling

Ringside Managers- (this one is a biggie for me)

Face/Heel Broadcasting Teams

Broadcasting Teams that created excitement with the product.

One WWE President

4-5 PPV's a year, thus creating more prominence with PPV's

Obnoxious and Fan-Favorite Interviewers: Brother Love and Mean Gene

Comedy: Thanks to Bobby Heenan

Enthusiastic Crowds

A clear cut babyface that 95% of the crowd cheered for, overwhelmingly

Blood- (although, personally I wish WWE would start using capsules and simply try to keep it hush/hush from everyone ... Obviously, this is much safer than blading)

Debut Vignettes to help give character depth to new talent

TV consisted of a lot of jobber matches, and preserved the big matches for the PPV's

New Generation Era

This was the Era that began the use of the Entrance Lights and Individualized Entrances, along with very limited pyro. However the quality and effort put into them was far superior back then, compared to what we even see today.

Ringside Managers

Focus on all aspects of the card, similar to the Hogan Era

Some of the characters and gimmicks became even more complex- Goldust, Waylon Mercy, etc. (Although I was not a fan of the lame gimmicks (TL Hopper, The Goon, etc.)

Debut Vignettes to help give character depth to new talent

TV consisted of a lot of jobber matches, and preserved the bigger matches for the PPV's

One WWE President

Attitude Era

Again, a clear cut babyface that 95% of the crowd cheered for overwhelmingly

TV that focused on storylines while PPV's focused on the matches

Very, VERY enthusiastic crowds

An Era which tapped into Pop Culture

Intriguing characters and Gimmicks

Era of complex storylines that pushed the envelope

Sexuality from Divas

Elimination of Managers (again, a Negative for me)

Cursing, which added to the intensity of the feuds

Feuds/Storylines that went out on location, as opposed to staying confined to the arenas

Violence (similar to what you would see in a TV Action/Drama)

Focus on Tag Team Wrestling, however the Focus on the Mid-card seemed to begin waivering.

Debut Vignettes to help give character depth to new talent

Typically, One Authority Figure (Vince)

PG Era (my complaints)


Top Babyface is heavily booed in many markets

No more Gimmicks/Characters- Only Personalities ... and boring ones at that

Very, VERY few storylines anymore. Most shows have no storylines, anymore. The action is pretty much ONLY about challenging for a title or vying for #1 Contendership with a title.

Enthusiasm Level of the Audience is Very Poor compared to prior Eras

Focus ONLY on the Main Event

Elimination of Face/Heel Commentary teams

Commentators reduced to a bland, boring commentary style, in which they are told not to get excited anymore. Results in commentary very comparable to Golf Commentary.

A Tag Team Division that has been destroyed, despite having 4 television programs to air them on.

***Too much focus on the wrestling across the board on their shows. The drawback in this is that instead of using time to build storylines to increase interest in the feuds, they use that time to increase the match lengths. Therefore, people don't care when two superstars wrestle on PPV, since chances are, you've already seen them wrestle for free on TV more than a dozen times already, and they didn't properly build up the feud via storylines. Instead, they are relying on wrestling on TV, to sell more wrestling on PPV's.

Comedy that isn't funny, in the least.

No more Managers at Ringside. This, as others have pointed out, is a lot more important than people think. Not only did these characters provide more interesting personalities to keep the viewers interested, however they also provided numerous variations in match finishes, which has now been taken away. Interfering behind the ref's back, the chance to see managers take bumps after the matches (to the crowd's delight), all of which has been taken away.

No debut vignettes for incoming talent to help people care about them (once in a blue moon like Kizarny will pop up)

It's a lot of differences. And they are big differences. With the two largest dissatisfied groups being the Hogan Era fans AND the Attitude Era fans. But again, it looks like it's not JUST the Attitude Era fans that are pissed. And the most apathetic group seems to be the Post-Attitude Era fans.

 

[The Infant Finite]

Screw all this PG rating is going to be the end of the WWE crap. I'm about dadgum tired of it. Screw the bashing of everything on RAW, or ECW, they are both great shows. This is Milk's rant on how terrible everyones arguements have been as of late as to why the WWE sucks. Theres been at least 15 threads on all this hate for the WWE. The WWE deserves love. Milk, now shows WWE the love and respect they deserve by me.

Okay, it's hard to respect you're stance when you're stating you're opinions as facts. not everyone agrees that the product is geat, in fact most of us seem rather displeased with it, especially Raw. After one of the most illogically written shows I have ever seen, I dont see how anyone could put that episode anywhere but the trash compactor in they're memory bank.
I'm thrilled Batista will be out of my line of sight for the next few months, especially after how horribly he sold his arm, if this man didnt have muscles, I swear he'd be working at Denny's.
By the way, don't refer to yourself in the third person, we already think so little of you intellectually, you've got little ground to lose.

Raw just put on one of the best Raw's I've ever seen since McMahon peed his pants when Austin fired that "Bang" gun at him. Yet I STILL saw people say that it was a horrible RAW, that wasn't very entertaining. Yet, the best injury angle I have ever seen happened. HHH returned, which was sorda a shock.

Okay, thee is no way that absurd episode came aywhere near the level of entertainment of the Austin/mcmahon situation. It was poorly thought out and a complete waste of an oppurtunity to give us something good. i don't know what they look for in they're writing staff but I would think someonewho can derive a logical storyline, at the very least would be in they're requisites. Best injury angle you have ever seen? You dont watch much wrestling do you?

1. The Miz

The Miz got over even more than he normally did. This man is rising through the ranks faster than NASCAR drivers go 1/4 of a mile. His promos are simply amazing, and he was deffinetely one of the main vocal point of Raw for me this past Monday. Creative has done a wonderful job at booking him, and will continue to do so in my opinion. As long as they don't make Cena squash him when they actually wrestle. This could be Fued of the Year,no doupt

i like the Miz, but he is a nice mid card wrestler, but he will never be the FOCAL point of any WWE show, just a reliable heel presence for years to come IMO. He will eventually get squashed by Cena, thats how Vince does things. He may outsmart Cena but he will never really be portrayed to hold his own, thats only consistent with the character they have created.


[/QUOTE]2. Legacy


Legacy is a heel stable, with no compition right now. Yet everyone is continually complaining about how horrible they are. Even though they have one of the greatest superstars in all of the WWE at the moment, Randy Orton. And two men that are the future of the WWE. Furthermore, everything they have done, has been very heelish, and has been done in a very professional manner. Making me actually believe their constant beatdowns on everyone, is actually taking place. And at times making me actually hate my favorite wrestlers.[/QUOTE]


No competition right now? they're a bunch of wormy little heels who get beat up by any main eventer until they have a chance to swarm on them. orton has already lost to Batista, been beaten to a pulp by triple H several times, lost his title and been beaten down by a 60 year old man. ted and cody JUST got a signifigant match last week. How is this dominant?

3. The Future of the business

Honestly? The future of the business is looking amazing right now. With Randy Orton, John Cena, Ted Dibiase, Kofi Kingston, MVP, Chris Jericho, Evan Bourne, John Morrison, Matt Hardy, Jeff Hardy, Edge, Christian, etc leading the newer generation in, and letting the old generation out. The WWE is in great hands. These few men can tell stories like no other, put on matches, and most have fairly nice charisma. How in the hell is the future of the WWE jeopradized when beaten down Undertaker, Shawn Michaels, and Batista leave. If anything it will do better. The few suprise appearances here and there, will cause merchandise to spike, and make people want to atend more of those mens hometown shows in hopes to see a little suprise appearance. This also allows new faces to step into certain scenes on screen, and off stage.

First off, I dont know where you see amazing in anyone of these young guys you are speaking of. Because half of the guys you listed are already full on established and mostly set in there veteran places. Edge, Hardy, Christian, Jericho are all in they're mid to late 30's, they were leading the new generation ten years ago and while they are all great in they're own ways, are by no means a substance provider for your "new generation arguement".
As for the young guys you spoke of, Morrison is great, bourne has potential and Kofi does as well, other than that who stands out atm? Those three are great but just like th rest of this new generation, they have trouble telling a story in that ring. Cena , while i'm not a fan, does his job well in most aspects. he may be bland and unspectacular as a preformer, but he's solid not a shitstorm worker the likes of Bastista. Orton is a big cause for the ratings issus on Raw and Vince is starting to realize it, if you find him a compelling chracter , then you are easily captivated. Would you like a balloon animal?

4. The WWE

Is the best wrestling business in the world today. No one can match the income they are making, the shows they are putting out, and the talent they have. I'm willing to say WWE is winning by a HUGE margin when it comes to any sort of compitition. So Vince isn't as in touch with the croud as he used to be? It doesn't mean hes writing shows for only himself. Hes trying, and his creative is doing a fine job as well. All things in the wrestling world are hit and miss. Sometimes, they rely on what they know might work, and you complain. Other times they take risks, try new things, and when they do, you complain.

You're the reason Vince keeps rolling out this awful product. You think he's trying, you think they're demolishing competition that isn't even there anymore. I don't like TNA, but I really hope this company makes a dent and gives Vince a reason to try somewhere down the line.

5. PG rating

Is one of the best things, in my eyes, to ever happen to the WWE. The overall product hasn't changed much. But the fact is, blading is no longer a need due to no blood on pg rating television. Fuck, we've not really lost anything other than that. I've seen more innovative stuff in the WWE than I saw in the 5 years I watched ECW. Theres no need to complain about anything when it comes to the PG rating, because we've honestly lost nothing, other than blood. The loss of blood, is a gain in the wrestlers life. Actual blading can be dangerous, and severely cut a mans life if done wrong, or too much blood is lost during the course of the match. Its a dangerous process, and isn't needed by any means necassary.

Okay, i'm gonna try and pretend that you din't just say the WWE is more innovative than the ECW of old. Everything the WWE did creatively that flourished, somene did first, not only ECW. The WWe has the money to take an Idea and make it seem innovative even to people who have seen the same ideas at they're inception, but that hardly makes them innovative. The things they do try that are creative, are usually the bad side of that spectrum.
I mean if you like Festus, Hornswoggle, the hog pen match (now and from the 90's), Goldust, Santina, the gobledy gooker, and The Boogeyman then i would say you're the last one to enter a discussion on innovation.

So come the hell on what do you want? Are you going to constantly nag, and complain about horirble the wrestling world is? As you continually watch it, and continually post on wrestling forums about such manners? Its not like the WWE actually reads your posts anyways. You're only making the IWC look worse and worse at each passing day. Theres a reason "Exclude me from the IWC" threads exsist here on this forum. No one really wants to hear constant bitching, and complaining by any means neccassary. We're all here to debate one another, have some fun, and yeah point out our likes and dislikes of the wrestling business. But as of late, everyone has just gone to far. And I'd love to know why, or the reasoning behind such things.

If the product was good in a general opinion, I'm sure you would see a change in that trend. Opinions are opinions, and the fact that there is more bad then good these days should make that fairly clear to you about the overall appeal of the show.

 

[Cena's Little Helper]

Thank goodness. Someone with something tangible, that might actually be able to be passed off for an actual reason. Thankyou TSnugs

While I can semi agree with you on a lack of major storylines, I have to dissent and say there ARE storylines, they just arent nearly as bombastic as the ones in the attitude era. We are now seeing things cenetering more just aorund the title, beating one another for it. Which were the storylines back in the day, The Hogan days I mean. I mean....why was Hulk Hogan constantly fighting for the title? Ultimate Warrior? Bret Hart? Undertaker? same shit.

Bastista and Cena are title contenders becuase they lost their titles in under dubious conditions, and they win matches against high profile competition. Thats why Cena has been feuding with Show. Batista was put in the spot he has been in the last couple months becuase of the fact it was Orton who put him out in the first place, y'know?

More subtle, yes. Lack thereof? hardly. IMO. Yes, I agree you need to have entertaining storylines, at the same time though, I guess I dont feel I need overly complex storylines for them to be entertaining. "hey i dont like you, and I want to win the belt, so im gonna kick your ass" is fine enough for me.

You miss the complex mutli layered storylines of The Attitude era then. Fair enough. I still maintain however that those things were pretty isolated to that certain era of time. I dont feel like the storylines were overly complex back in the Hogan Days or The New Generation.

The one bad thing that I can say about the Attitude Era was that there were far less gimmicks than there were during Hogan's Era and the New Generation. I mean, there were a few, but it was mainly people being themselves and having no interesting back story that could gradually be revealed. However, the bookers were able to make up for this with great story lines.

With today's product, you not only have a lack of gimmicks, but you also have no good story lines (I happen to think that complexity is key, as it keeps things fresh, keeps the viewer thinking, and allows for more than two wrestlers to be involved in an angle, so we'll have to agree to disagree on what a good storyline entails). Furthermore, there is pretty much no focus on the under card whatsoever.

Hogan may have been in the title scene for a long period of time, but: a) he didn't fight the same people over and over again; b) he was just the icing on a very appetizing cake.