General WWE Complaining & PG Rating Thread

[HBK-aholic]

see,now ur just personal insulting me because you cant counter my statement

No, it's just that you seem to be acting like you want someone to.

.face it lady,its been the same old same old for almost 5 years and its just boring and stale now.

The WWE has been improving in recent years actually the PG era is in no way as bad as you think, you're just suffering from being in the era of it being cool to hate everything. People complain about the same stars being in the main event - the WWE gives Swagger a shot, people complain then. People complain about Triple H being in Main event, they change that to tag-team work, and people complain.

only a child would like this current show

I've already explained that the numbers YOU gave dispute this.

and cena(an asshole that ruined wwe with his fake rapper marine only knos 5 moves bullshit)

This is what I meant by you asking to be insulted. I need to believe you're joking for my own sanity.

they need to learn how to appreciate real wrestlers like hhh,hbk,the rock,stone Cold steve austin,and matt hardy.

Triple H - numerous world titles, main event shots and TV time - how do they not appreciate him?
Shawn - Booked credibly, has great matches, doesn't want to be champion so he's not given the shot often - his choice.
The Rock and Austin - When was the last time we saw them?
Matt Hardy - Have you heard the crowds reaction to him?

 

[Big Ol' Buckta AIDS]

I think making the show PG was one of the dumbest things WWE has ever done. Why are they being money hungry? It shows they don't care for the fans anymore as long as they get money from little kids who don't even understand the whole point of wrestling. When people like Bret Hart return, it's big for us WRESTLING fans. But what's the point when you've lost all your fans and the kids don't even know who Bret Hart is. Think about it. Blood is such a important factor in wrestling. It brings intensity and drama to the match. If we didn't have blood when Bret Hart had Austin in the sharpshooter, and Austin was bleeding all over his face, it would have been pure BS if there wasn't any blood. Think about that.

Hmmmm ok there buddy relax. Why are they being money hungry? They are a company their first job is to make money first, entertain second.

It shows they don't care for the fans anymore as long as they get money from little kids who don't even understand the whole point of wrestling.

No, It shows that they are changing their fan base. Again, the WWE is a company, and in a company the most important thing is to make money, and they are going where the money is. And while i do agree that it is definatly making for a less than steller product, you gotta understand why they are doing it.

When people like Bret Hart return, it's big for us WRESTLING fans. But what's the point when you've lost all your fans and the kids don't even know who Bret Hart is.

true. But in this day and age, it isn't that hard to find clips of Bret Hart online. I garantee you there was some kid out there that went out and researched Hart when Dennis miller mentioned him a couple of weeks back.

Blood is such a important factor in wrestling.

Is the the fact they took blood out of the WWE going overboard? absouluty. But to say is an important factor is a gross overstatement. Athletic and techinical ability should always come first when talking about important factors in a match. Prime examples of this ( just from this year would be HBK V Taker, and Angle Wolfe on impact a week ago)

If we didn't have blood when Bret Hart had Austin in the sharpshooter, and Austin was bleeding all over his face, it would have been pure BS if there wasn't any blood.

Well if there wasn't any blood, it's not like we would have been expecting it, and we certainly wouldn't be disapointed over the fact that that there wasn't any blood, that was a great match in its own right, and would have gone down as a classic even if there wasn't any.

 

[farlance]

Ok this post is not to judge what is PG or not when it comes to WWE. Nor is it what they should put on their programming, or take away to make it "PG" but more to question the reason to be PG in the first place. I'm sure there is some standard that WWE has to follow to keep it PG but if they are really trying to appeal to the younger crowd, they story lines dont fit in my mind.

Ok so they get rid of bleeding, and the diva's wear more cloths, make John Cena superman like, shove Hornswaggle down our throats and your PG. But.....

They still have 2 guys crotch chopping telling people to suck it, they have women teasing other women about being fat little piggies, they teach you that your supposed to boo someone who is strait edge and speaks against pain killers and alcohol. Thats not PG under my standard.

I got no problems with these story lines, but I don't see the point or really see that much of an effort for WWE to get parents to want these kids to watch their programming. Plus if the parents arent paying attention anyway and WWE isnt going for their approval whats the point in trying to be PG.

Its just this on the fence crap that irks me. This all around PG feel, but PG-14 storylines. I dont see the point, why not just be PG-14 and go all out and do what they do best. Bring back blood gushing hell in a cell, bring back a diva in Playboy every year.

 

[ColdPlay3r]

Hmmmm ok there buddy relax. Why are they being money hungry? They are a company their first job is to make money first, entertain second.

and what if there is no one left to entertain, how will they make money?

to make money the company needs to fulfill their objectives and in this case it is to entertain, the wwe (im sure i dont need to tell you what it stands for) top priority is entertainment

They still have 2 guys crotch chopping telling people to suck it, they have women teasing other women about being fat little piggies, they teach you that your supposed to boo someone who is strait edge and speaks against pain killers and alcohol. Thats not PG under my standard.

then you need to get out more mate.

 

[TRAVISLILLER]

I truly feel that it is just making WWE look like it's being made a sissy promotion. I mean the whole stopping of the match for blood with the Christian vs. Benjamin ladder match at TLC. That made me mad beyond all recognition. It finally made me fed up with the whole PG crap. I can only deal with the WWE going so far. I can deal with no blading, and some of this whole dramatic stupid kiddy storylines, but when it comes to a point that they stop matches for blood, and can't even have an interesting storyline I just want the monday night wars back, so WWE will actually try to be interesting to the kids that grew up watching the attitude era. I'm not sure what gave Vince the brilliant idea to go PG, but it seems to be from the same part of his brain as the XFL!

 

[Suneeboy]

1/4/10 was a huge blow to the PG Era. TNA basically said fuck your toys, fuck your merchandise, wrestling is not about that. Wrestling is about TV Ratings, and PPV buys, and adults watch TV on Monday Nights, and adults buy pay per views, because they pay the cable bill with their hard earned money that they earned going to work!

Grown men and women don't watch 40 year old's run around with midgets. We watch Kurt Angle vs. AJ Styles. The PG era just shows how out of touch Vince is. He thinks Cena is cool, Mysterio is cool, DX is cool...no, those characters are dorks, and no one who can generate a dollar in this country is going to go for that. The crowds are dead, the shows are boring, and the matches are repetitive.

If you want to really get kids, you get them characters they want to emulate. Celebrity type characters. Rappers, rock stars, actors, larger than life characters who fans feel are real people. It's so funny how history repeats itself. The Hurricane, Santino, Hornswaggle, Evan Bourne getting squashed....same type of stuff that was going down when WCW rose to the top.

The PG Era is an experiment failed man.

 

[TRAVISLILLER]

1/4/10 was a huge blow to the PG Era. TNA basically said fuck your toys, fuck your merchandise, wrestling is not about that. Wrestling is about TV Ratings, and PPV buys, and adults watch TV on Monday Nights, and adults buy pay per views, because they pay the cable bill with their hard earned money that they earned going to work!

Grown men and women don't watch 40 year old's run around with midgets. We watch Kurt Angle vs. AJ Styles. The PG era just shows how out of touch Vince is. He thinks Cena is cool, Mysterio is cool, DX is cool...no, those characters are dorks, and no one who can generate a dollar in this country is going to go for that. The crowds are dead, the shows are boring, and the matches are repetitive.

If you want to really get kids, you get them characters they want to emulate. Celebrity type characters. Rappers, rock stars, actors, larger than life characters who fans feel are real people. It's so funny how history repeats itself. The Hurricane, Santino, Hornswaggle, Evan Bourne getting squashed....same type of stuff that was going down when WCW rose to the top.

The PG Era is an experiment failed man.

Amen, couldn't be said better as it is a failed experiment. Wrestling is about fighting (blood, weapons) and it's about good matches(like AJ styles, Angle) not midgets running around and people like Santino being stupid every week, that's not wrestling thats like a SNL thing

 

[The Champ]

I really need someone to explain to me why we need crude humor and blood to enjoy a wrestling product. We still have awesome characters such as Jericho and Punk, the latter of whom isn't anywhere close to "PG" in terms of what he preaches about. Actually, the fact that he's a heel suggests to kids that they should be doing drugs and drinking, which isn't exactly the smartest message for the WWE to be sending.

Also, last year we had a storyline where Randy Orton attacked an old man and a woman just to get a shot at Triple H's title. Kicking a 60 year old in the skull isn't exactly childish in my book. We also have DX using the term "Suck it" on a regular basis, along with characters like Cryme Tyme who constantly steal things, auction them off to make some quick cash, and get cheered for it. Real PG.

Some of you just ask for way too much. Wrestling is not South Park, it doesn't have to be too adult to be successful, and the adult elements are definitely still there. At the same time, branding their product as PG suggests to parents that it's appropriate for their kids to be watching. Those kids are the ones who don't know how to use the internet to watch the shows illegally, and beg their parents to buy them every month. Those same kids are constantly buying merchandise to show off to their friends, because they want to be like their idol. WWE can also attract more sponsors because of their product looking family friendly instead of trashy.

All of this ultimately leads to the money, which is the goal of any kind of business, to make money. And as we've seen in the past, and we're still seeing today, they can still push the envelope to a certain degree. It's a balance, and the scale is in the right place for the WWE right now. And personally, I'm still enjoying the product wholeheartedly, despite the lack of "asshole" chants or breast fondling. That stuff just really isn't that important to me in a wrestling show, and there are plenty of other forms of entertainment where I can get them.

 

[Ambiguous Turd]

I really need someone to explain to me why we need crude humor and blood to enjoy a wrestling product.

Because we want it. Why do people need or want crude humor in movies or TV? Because they just do.

When you quit trying to think you can change fans' minds about what type of product they want out of wrestling, then you can better cope with this.

The bottom line is that neither you or Vince are able to tell fans in this day and age what "they should be liking". Those days are long gone and thanks to the Internet, we have better means of communicating with other fans. Because of this, we have minds of our own and can think for ourselves now, instead of being spoon fed by Vince whatever he gives us.

Stop trying to tell fans what they should be wanting and liking out of wrestling, Champ. The fans are the customers here and that is the way most businesses around the world operate. Businesses listen to their customers. Not the other way around. Plain and simple.

We still have awesome characters such as Jericho and Punk, the latter of whom isn't anywhere close to "PG" in terms of what he preaches about.

You are also badly misinformed what constitutes an actual "PG Rating" for Television.

I believe I posted it before, but here it is again, so you can't try to misinform anyone else what it actually is, so people can see the words in black and white:

TV-PG

(Parental Guidance Suggested -- This program contains material that parents may find unsuitable for younger children.)


TV-PG.

This rating signifies that the program may be unsuitable for younger children without the guidance of a parent. Many parents may want to watch it with their younger children. Various game shows and most reality shows are rated TV-PG for their suggestive dialog, suggestive humor, and/or coarse language.

Some prime-time sitcoms such as Everybody Loves Raymond, Fresh Prince of Bel-Air, The Simpsons, Futurama (on FOX and adult swim airings), and Seinfeld usually air with a TV-PG rating. Recently, Cartoon Network has been using the PG rating outside of their Adult Swim line-up to rate shows that may contain suggestive dialogue, crude humor, or scary elements, such as Total Drama Island, 6teen, and reruns of Goosebumps (on FOX, Goosebumps was rated TV-Y7 for scary/disturbing content).

Also, on Nickelodeon, Invader Zim is also rated TV-PG when uncut. The uncut MTV airings of The Ren & Stimpy Show are rated PG. Many feature films rated PG and some movies originally rated PG-13 and R are edited for content in order to earn a TV-PG rating when shown on broadcast and cable television. On August 1st, 2008 WWE programming went to this rating to appeal to a wider range of sponsors.

The TV-PG rating may be accompanied by one or more of the following sub-ratings:

* D for some suggestive dialogue
* L for infrequent coarse language
* S for some sexual situations
* V for moderate violence

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TV_Parental_Guidelines

I hope you read over that very carefully, because these definitions are going to be referred back to in your post below.

Actually, the fact that he's a heel suggests to kids that they should be doing drugs and drinking, which isn't exactly the smartest message for the WWE to be sending.

So what you are suggesting is that the CM Punk persona is really TV-14 material? Interesting theory. Let's check that one out too, while we are at it.

TV-14

(Parents Strongly Cautioned -- This program contains some material that many parents would find unsuitable for children under 14 years of age.)
TV-14-V.png

Parents are strongly urged to exercise greater care in monitoring this program and are cautioned against letting children of any age watch unattended. This rating may be accompanied by any of the following sub-ratings:

* D for intensely suggestive dialogue
* L for strong coarse language
* S for intense sexual situations
* V for intense violence

Many programs that air after 9:00 pm are rated TV-14, including late-night staples like The Tonight Show and Saturday Night Live. Certain PG-13 or R-rated feature films are rated TV-14 when edited for broadcast.

Adult-oriented cartoons, such as Family Guy, The Cleveland Show, syndicated reruns of South Park, American Dad, some select episodes of The Simpsons [3], and most of the shows in Cartoon Network's Adult Swim line-up have been given the TV-14 rating due to crude, suggestive humor, coarse language, graphic violence, or subject matter considered too strong to be rated TV-PG.

Anime series Bleach and Inuyasha alternatively switch betweeen a TV-PG and TV-14 rating. On Comedy Central airings of Futurama, it is given a TV-14 rating although in reality it deserves a TV-PG rating most of the time. Too some programs are cataloged TV-14 like CSI: Crime Scene Investigation or Grey's Anatomy, for excessive violence, some coarse language or simply strong sexual content.

Live programming like televised awards ceremonies, concerts, and some specials will be issued a general TV-14 rating, because of the possibility that profanity or suggestive dialogue may occur.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TV_Parental_Guidelines

Nope. Didn't see anything about drug references there, either. If I had to wager, it would fall under "Suggestive dialogue". In that case, you have to ask whether or not the dialogue is "Intense" or "Mildly suggested".

If you see someone getting injected with drugs, I would say that it is "intensely suggested". If not, I would say that it is "Mildly Suggested".

So that is TV-PG D for Dialogue.

Besides that, even cartoons now have drug references. Actually, I can even remember back to the Power Rangers where they had an occasional drug reference in that, as well.

Also, last year we had a storyline where Randy Orton attacked an old man and a woman just to get a shot at Triple H's title. Kicking a 60 year old in the skull isn't exactly childish in my book.

You are trying to blur the lines between Rated PG and Rated G. Rated PG is not Rated G.

Randy Orton kicking an old man in the skull and DDT'ing a woman falls under TV-PG V for "Moderate Violence". It is NOT "Intense Violence" so please don't even try to go there.

Someone getting tortured perhaps like in 24 to extract information, would constitute V for Intense Violence. If you think what you saw between Orton and Friends was "Intense Violence" Champ, then I'm sorry, but you really need to toughen yourself up a little bit.

Let's continue:

We also have DX using the term "Suck it" on a regular basi

s,

TV PG S: Mild "Sexual" Situations. You don't see any sex or even simulated sex going on like when Candice Michelle and Triple H were given implied Oral Sex back in 2006 under the picnic table.

along with characters like Cryme Tyme who constantly steal things, auction them off to make some quick cash, and get cheered for it.

Really? When is the last time they stole something, Champ? That's one of the things I complain about WWE taking away from them, because they were far more over with the audience when they were allowed to do it as opposed to when they weren't.

Besides any of that, even if they did steal something, are you telling me that you have NEVER seen a PG rated program where somebody stole something, Champ? Unbelievable. It never ends with you.

That would be Rated PG for "Suggestive humor", btw.

Real PG.

Yes, it actually is. I can see you are the type of fan that wants to believe that Vince is actually putting on a TV-14 program with a PG Rating, because perhaps you think it is cool or something, but in reality and as you can see, he is well within the definition of a PG rating on his program.

Your definitions for what constitutes a PG rating, and what you attempt to apply a TV-14 rating to is simply not accurate, with respect to the definitions here in Black and White.

Some of you just ask for way too much. Wrestling is not South Park,

Wrestling is whatever the fans want it to be. As time goes by and the fans want something different, it should change in order to be as profitable as possible.

You can't seem to grasp the mentality that fans don't like to be told what they should be liking in order to do what's best for WWE's corporate goals. That does not work anymore.

Fans have been dying for some competition to come along for years now to actually give them what they want, and as you can see from the rave reviews that TNA got last night, they seem to be providing these fans with the content they want, by actually catering to their adult interests.

As you know, I have always advocated that wrestling cater 2 different programs to different target audiences to be successful. One for adults and one for families, children, and those that are too sensitive like yourself for older teen/adult programming. You aren't going to get away with telling adults and older teens these days what they should be liking because they care more about themselves as opposed to what makes Vince money. And rightfully so.

They are the customer, therefore they dictate. Not the other way around.

it doesn't have to be too adult to be successful, and the adult elements are definitely still there.

No, they really aren't. It's not adult enough for the adults that want more.

At the same time, branding their product as PG suggests to parents that it's appropriate for their kids to be watching. Those kids are the ones who don't know how to use the internet to watch the shows illegally, and beg their parents to buy them every month. Those same kids are constantly buying merchandise to show off to their friends, because they want to be like their idol. WWE can also attract more sponsors because of their product looking family friendly instead of trashy.

That's fine and dandy. Adults that want more Adult content than what Vince is giving us with his PG rated programming should care about that because ......... ????

All of this ultimately leads to the money, which is the goal of any kind of business, to make money.

Did the Attitude Era not make money for Vince and make him profitable? If I recall, the Attitude Era helped turn Vince into a Billionaire, as the popularity of the company sky-rocketed to the point where he took the company public where he achieved this goal.

The bottom line is that he took risks to make himself a Billionaire. And now that he's achieved that and doesn't feel like he has competition, he doesn't want to take risks anymore with the programming, or push the envelope.

That has been less than impressive to the fans.

And as we've seen in the past, and we're still seeing today, they can still push the envelope to a certain degree. It's a balance, and the scale is in the right place for the WWE right now.

I'm glad it is in the right place for the WWE. It apparently isn't in the right place for a lot of fans out there, though. And they are going to go to another wrestling company, if one can provide the content that they seek.

You and many others out there have this undying need to want to be loyal to the WWE which I whole-heartedly admit, I do not comprehend.

And personally, I'm still enjoying the product wholeheartedly, despite the lack of "asshole" chants or breast fondling. That stuff just really isn't that important to me in a wrestling show, and there are plenty of other forms of entertainment where I can get them.

And that is fine for you. For many others out there, what they want if you care, is some wrestling mixed with some older teen to adult-oriented programming. That is what they want. But you don't care what they want. Then, you act all surprised when you see people bash the WWE or want to get their entertainment from another wrestling company that will provide this stuff.

The problem is your beliefs that everyone should like the WWE because "it has the WWE initials next to the company". It doesn't work that way, Champ. Not anymore. At least not with everyone.

 

[The Champ]

That whole post was really a complete misinterpretation of what I was trying to say. I really don't care what the official criteria for the ratings are. My point was that under the PG rating, they can still do suggestive things without going too overboard, which you actually helped proved for me. So thanks for that one. As for your other point, I get that you want the adult stuff because that's what you're interested in, and that's fine.

I'm not trying to tell you that you shouldn't like that stuff. But WWE is trying to cater to multiple audiences here, not just one. Like I said before, the entire idea behind the PG rating is to get more family friendly while still trying to maintain their adult audiences. I see plenty of adults and children every time I attend a WWE event, so apparently, it's working. Also, I realize that you don't care about the kids, believe me, you've made that clear enough over the time I've known you. But you certainly didn't deny that they account for a large amount of the money that the WWE makes, and once again, that's their goal as a company. I'm not denying that they can be lazy sometimes, I certainly acknowledge that the writing is not perfect and they could be trying harder to make the show entertaining. At the same time, they do not need to change the rating to make the show acceptable for all audiences. They just need to come up with better ideas and storylines.

The thing I mentioned about Orton and Triple H, that was one of the best Mania storyline buildups in years. It pushed the envelope without going too far, while keeping the fans entertained and engaged every single week, and everyone wanted to see Triple H get his hands on the bastard that attacked the poor McMahons. Sure, the entire thing was basically ruined by a shit match at WrestleMania, but the point is that they are capable of these moments of brilliance, while still keeping their initiative and making tons of money.

In addition, attempting to bring the Attitude Era back isn't really going to change anything, because wrestling's just not that big anymore, and the two biggest stars from that era are long gone. Maybe TNA can one day provide some real competition, and if and when that day comes, WWE might have to up their game a little bit. I certainly wouldn't mind it. But for right now, the direction that they are taking is the right one, and I do not see their creative failures as a direct result of this initiative.

 

[Coco]

Because we want it. Why do people need or want crude humor in movies or TV? Because they just do.

Do they really?

I see a far larger market for family entertainment these days than I do for the 14+ action/adventure nonsense you constantly claim to advocate. Family friendly movies topped the 2009 box office. You may like to parade around telling everyone that you belong to the majority demographic when it comes to WWE television, but they've long since won that battle. It's something you like to harp on constantly, how nobody can think for themself and turn away from the EVIL Vince McMahon and WWE. You're demo is already hooked on the whatever Vince has put in the drinking water. Enough of that. It can't be overlooked that Vince would be irresponsible not to try to take a bite out of that family friendly pie. Since he already has your demo hook, line, and sinker, he can put your child alienating interests on the back burner.

You're a minority. The old guard from the old era who hasn't accepted the changing times. You're a tiny, insignificant niche. The rest like you have come to find what good there is in today's WWE or moved on from wrestling entirely. You're fighting this battle alone. And one of these days, you'll smell the coffee and realize there are damn good reasons why you're relatively alone in this fight.

All the whiney, sad, petulant temper-tantrum threads in the world won't change how little you actually matter.

Would it be nice if Vince changed some things about his product? Definately (an opinion of mine you frequently overlook because it's probably easier for you to paint me into a simple corner rather than accept that the reality of the situation is more complex than you can ever fathom). But you respresent an extreme of which there isn't significant demand any more. It's time you accept this and find yourself a new niche or slip silently back into the anonymous darkness from whence you came.

When you quit trying to think you can change fans' minds about what type of product they want out of wrestling, then you can better cope with this.

The bottom line is that neither you or Vince are able to tell fans in this day and age what "they should be liking". Those days are long gone and thanks to the Internet, we have better means of communicating with other fans. Because of this, we have minds of our own and can think for ourselves now, instead of being spoon fed by Vince whatever he gives us.

Stop trying to tell fans what they should be wanting and liking out of wrestling, Champ. The fans are the customers here and that is the way most businesses around the world operate. Businesses listen to their customers. Not the other way around. Plain and simple.

Yeah. Plain and simple.

Or not.

Coke and McDonalds must retain psychologists because they're interested in listening to the customers, right? Wait, that's not right at all! Looks like you're off your rocker on this one.

The most successful corporations on this planet brain wash their customers. You wouldn't know an original thought from an idea big business put in your head if it bit you on the ass. You're nowhere near as smart as I thought you were if you even for one second naively believe you can influence a company with your opinion.

No, they really aren't. It's not adult enough for the adults that want more.

Nope. You and about a dozen other guys clinging to their long since faded Austin 3:16 shirts want more. The rest of the adult audience, the mature ones, have moved on completely, found a new niche product, or accepted what's happening now.

As imperfect as it is, you're an afterthought without the ability to influence shit.

This is a wake-up call, Sid. Time to grow up. It's not 1999 any more. People moved on.

Did the Attitude Era not make money for Vince and make him profitable? If I recall, the Attitude Era helped turn Vince into a Billionaire, as the popularity of the company sky-rocketed to the point where he took the company public where he achieved this goal.

Adult content and shock TV in and of itself does not constitute success.

A concept I cannot drill into your head enough times.

You and many others out there have this undying need to want to be loyal to the WWE which I whole-heartedly admit, I do not comprehend.

That mentality does not exist. You just have an easier time painting people into this corner because you aren't willing to accept people can enjoy the product AND want change or even ENJOY the product and leave it at that. So you've come up with a simple concept in order to make sure your brain doesn't explode when confronted with the truth.

Guess what? Your biases hold no truth and these defense mechanisms are making you come off very weak in arguments.

 

[Ambiguous Turd]

That whole post was really a complete misinterpretation of what I was trying to say. I really don't care what the official criteria for the ratings are.

Well, I hate to be blunt about this, but that's your problem if you don't want to acknowledge the official definitions of the Television Content Ratings, not mine. You aren't going to come on here and tell everyone what is PG and what is TV-14 and misconstrue what the definitions actually are, without being called out on it.

Everyone in the TV industry and knowledgeable wrestling fans can follow the definitions of the content ratings, except for Champ apparently, who feels his own opinions of what constitutes each rating definition should take precedence over the definitions already established for the television industry.

My point was that under the PG rating, they can still do suggestive things without going too overboard, which you actually helped proved for me. So thanks for that one. As for your other point, I get that you want the adult stuff because that's what you're interested in, and that's fine.

Well, I am not sure if I did or not. This is all subjective to what one considers to be "suggestive". DX simply saying "Suck it" on occasion is okay, but it doesn't really push the envelope enough for me and my tastes. I want it to go a little further.

Again, this is me speaking for myself. However, the degree of program content is nothing really new from what we have seen in the past out of the WWE. So it's not like I am proposing anything too Earth-shattering.

I'm not trying to tell you that you shouldn't like that stuff.

But actually you are, and have many times in the past to the point where you and others ridiculed me for my tastes in programming. You have made fun of me for wanting to see the envelope pushed and tried to tell me that it shouldn't be necessary.

I am telling you as a viewer and someone who is willing to be a paying customer that I want to see the envelope pushed in my wrestling product. And if there is a company willing to do so, then they will take me on as a customer and will have earned my money.

But WWE is trying to cater to multiple audiences here, not just one.

And that is their problem, to be frank. That is not my concern. I hold a single share of stock in the company (which was bought as a gag gift for me), but I am not out to make money from the WWE. Rather, I am willing to give them money to cater to the things that interest me as a viewer. If they can find a way to do that, then great. If they can't, and someone else can, then I will go elsewhere.

My interests come first since I am a paying customer, more so than WWE's corporate goals.

Sure, I can analyze why many things are good or bad for business as you have seen, but in my order of priorities, what I want comes as a first priority for me. Because I am a "fan of Sports Entertainment" first, and a "WWE Universe fan" second.

Like I said before, the entire idea behind the PG rating is to get more family friendly while still trying to maintain their adult audiences.

And again, this is up to the will of the people. If the adults do not feel like their interests are targeted enough and the WWE can't seem to put on programming that entertains the level of adults they want as well as the kids, then the adults who want to leave are going to leave.

Again, once you accept that adults aren't going to be told and nor do they wish to be told what they should be liking because "it fits into Vince McMahon's corporate goals first", then it is easier to move on and examine another means to deal with the problem.

I see plenty of adults and children every time I attend a WWE event, so apparently, it's working.

You do. Mainly because of lack of competition however from another major company like WCW. Wrestling fans do not like to part way with the company, but make no mistake about it, Vince's base has been eroded over the years, as Spike TV officials know. This is a combination of the rise in popularity of UFC and Vince simply not offering adults programming that fits their interests.

And now, "Spike smells blood" which was the quote, which is why they are looking to strike, as obviously they sense a real opportunity to chip even further away from that base even more.

Also, I realize that you don't care about the kids, believe me, you've made that clear enough over the time I've known you.

You're right. I put my own interests first as a fan. What a novel concept. As someone who has given the WWE thousands and thousands of dollars for 20 years, I think I have earned that right to put my own interests first.

But you certainly didn't deny that they account for a large amount of the money that the WWE makes, and once again, that's their goal as a company.

Sure, there is no denying that. But what I want as a viewer comes first, before the WWE's corporate goals. They have made money as a company catering to me before so there is no excuse it can't be done again.

So not only do my interests come first as a fan, but from a business perspective, I know it is still possible to do since they did it before.

I'm not denying that they can be lazy sometimes, I certainly acknowledge that the writing is not perfect and they could be trying harder to make the show entertaining. At the same time, they do not need to change the rating to make the show acceptable for all audiences. They just need to come up with better ideas and storylines.

And that is a likely scenario I don't know if I would deny. In the very least, it is a topic up for very serious debate on whether or not the quality of writing would be enough to sustain viewers and still keep the PG rating. However, yes I do believe the rating is severely holding back some people from breaking out into stardom because the toned down style of the program clearly does not give the fans enthusiasm for the product like the Attitude Era did. There is no comparison between the enthusiasm level for the show of the fans back then compared to today. None at all.

The thing I mentioned about Orton and Triple H, that was one of the best Mania storyline buildups in years. It pushed the envelope without going too far, while keeping the fans entertained and engaged every single week, and everyone wanted to see Triple H get his hands on the bastard that attacked the poor McMahons. Sure, the entire thing was basically ruined by a shit match at WrestleMania, but the point is that they are capable of these moments of brilliance, while still keeping their initiative and making tons of money.

I think the Triple H/Stephanie/Orton segment went fine as it was, and if WWe would have continued this IED role with Orton, I think there would be far more interest in him today as a unique persona and a Heel, then there is right now. Abandoning that persona basically killed virtually all the intrigue in Orton's character and was a major fuckup on WWE's part.

But I agree the match was extremely disappointing, and the booking of it with the "Title changes hands on a DQ" also took all interest away in the match, since Triple H toned it down not to lose his title.

In essence, he should have completely beat the Hell out of Orton and defended the honor of his wife. However, Triple H told the audience that his title was apparently more important than getting revenge for Stephanie, since he took it easy on Orton in the match and was concerned with getting DQ'ed. So it was awful, awful booking.

Do I think they could have went a little further with the segment? Sure. It wasn't a requirement for me though, like you and others attempted to twist my words around. But do I think adding a little more spice to it could have increased buyrates for the show? Sure I do.

In addition, attempting to bring the Attitude Era back isn't really going to change anything, because wrestling's just not that big anymore, and the two biggest stars from that era are long gone.

Wrestling isn't that big anymore due to lack of competition and there only being a Family Friendly product available. Vince having a monopoly over the national wrestling business and purchasing WCW is what really killed the wrestling business. Along with fans who won't allow competition to arise, as well.

After the amount of attention the Monday Night Wars last night got, and the energy level of everyone, that should tell you that there clearly is interest in another War being started between two companies.

Wrestling booms are created. They don't just happen. The last Wrestling Boom was created as well when WCW Monday Nitro went on the air.

You talk about "interest in wrestling", the interest can be out there. It just has to be created to lure fans into the show. WWE doing what they are doing with their Family Friendly programming for a couple years now, clearly didn't spark that boom now did it?

There needs to be something else to do it. It's called competition that is actually a product alternative from what the other company is putting out.

Maybe TNA can one day provide some real competition, and if and when that day comes, WWE might have to up their game a little bit. I certainly wouldn't mind it. But for right now, the direction that they are taking is the right one, and I do not see their creative failures as a direct result of this initiative.

I am also hoping that TNA can provide some real competition for the WWE, for the good of the entire wrestling business.

 

[JayBriscoe2010]

The WWE has always been PG really. The so called Attitude Era only happened cause of WCW whooping them and would of never happened if it wasn't for ECW. They were even more "PG" in 94-96 with some of the most terrible gimmicks and what not. I think the no blood thing is rather over the top though, especially in a heated gimmick rivalry match such as HIAC or LMS.

 

[The Champ]

Well, I hate to be blunt about this, but that's your problem if you don't want to acknowledge the official definitions of the Television Content Ratings, not mine. You aren't going to come on here and tell everyone what is PG and what is TV-14 and misconstrue what the definitions actually are, without being called out on it.

Everyone in the TV industry and knowledgeable wrestling fans can follow the definitions of the content ratings, except for Champ apparently, who feels his own opinions of what constitutes each rating definition should take precedence over the definitions already established for the television industry.

And once again, you miss my point entirely.

You're really gonna tell me that you think the majority of parents would be pleased with their children cheering for drug addicts and thieves? No, but it's not going to be something that they would be outraged over, and WWE's constant stressing of the family friendly aspect encourages parents to allow their children to continue watching. At the same time, we get our great storylines in HHH/Orton and Jeff/Punk, which are more adult in theme but not inappropriate for those kids to be watching.

Well, I am not sure if I did or not. This is all subjective to what one considers to be "suggestive". DX simply saying "Suck it" on occasion is okay, but it doesn't really push the envelope enough for me and my tastes. I want it to go a little further.

Again, this is me speaking for myself. However, the degree of program content is nothing really new from what we have seen in the past out of the WWE. So it's not like I am proposing anything too Earth-shattering.

And I don't think it's earth shattering that we can't have cursing or excess sexual content anymore. Not that I dislike those things, quite the opposite actually, I curse all the time and watch my fair share of sexual content on the internet. I just don't see why those things are necessary to have a good wrestling product. As I stated, I care far more about the actual quality of the writing and storylines, and if it can get me excited for an upcoming match.

But actually you are, and have many times in the past to the point where you and others ridiculed me for my tastes in programming. You have made fun of me for wanting to see the envelope pushed and tried to tell me that it shouldn't be necessary.

Well I think the petition was pretty damn ridiculous, and the "breast fondling" was really not needed in that Orton/Stephanie segment, but I'm not gonna say you've never had any good ideas. There's a difference between telling you that you shouldn't think that way and telling you why I think those things are silly and unnecessary.

I am telling you as a viewer and someone who is willing to be a paying customer that I want to see the envelope pushed in my wrestling product. And if there is a company willing to do so, then they will take me on as a customer and will have earned my money.

And I am telling you why I find WWE enjoyable despite the rating, and why plenty of others agree and will continue to spend their hard earned money attending WWE shows and buying pay-per-views and merchandise.

And that is their problem, to be frank. That is not my concern. I hold a single share of stock in the company (which was bought as a gag gift for me), but I am not out to make money from the WWE. Rather, I am willing to give them money to cater to the things that interest me as a viewer. If they can find a way to do that, then great. If they can't, and someone else can, then I will go elsewhere.

My interests come first since I am a paying customer, more so than WWE's corporate goals.

Sure, I can analyze why many things are good or bad for business as you have seen, but in my order of priorities, what I want comes as a first priority for me. Because I am a "fan of Sports Entertainment" first, and a "WWE Universe fan" second.

I understand all of that, and if you want to watch TNA and encourage others to do the same, more power to you. But I don't see the sense in constantly bashing WWE for making decisions based on trying to please all of their fans instead of just some of them.

That's enough for now, I need to get to bed.

 

[Ambiguous Turd]

And once again, you miss my point entirely.

No, I really haven't. I think if anyone is missing the other person's point, it is you, unfortunately. But I'll explain again.

You're really gonna tell me that you think the majority of parents would be pleased with their children cheering for drug addicts and thieves? No, but it's not going to be something that they would be outraged over, and WWE's constant stressing of the family friendly aspect encourages parents to allow their children to continue watching. At the same time, we get our great storylines in HHH/Orton and Jeff/Punk, which are more adult in theme but not inappropriate for those kids to be watching.

Which is why I have always advocated, which should be no surprise for you, that WWE offer two different products under the WWE Entertainment Umbrella. One for Adults and Older Teens with a TV-14 rating. The other, for Familes, Kids, and anyone else willing to watch it with a PG rating.

So you can say that "I don't care about the kids" and all that stuff until you are red and blue in the face, but the bottom line is that I put my own interests first as fan (which is my right to do), and from a business perspective, I advocate the WWE replacing the old Adult/Older teen WWE product they took away from the fans, and replacing it, while offering their family friendly "WCW" product they have offered for the past couple years, as well.

The 18-34 year old male demographic wants programming content that more reflects their interests, and I really don't think an "Everyone of all ages" PG WWE product has fulfilled those interests, based on the feedback I have seen throughout the years.

And I don't think it's earth shattering that we can't have cursing or excess sexual content anymore. Not that I dislike those things, quite the opposite actually, I curse all the time and watch my fair share of sexual content on the internet. I just don't see why those things are necessary to have a good wrestling product. As I stated, I care far more about the quality of the actual product.

Well, that's you. Other fans have a different opinion on the matter than you do. Again, it all comes down to choices being offered. You may not understand it, but I can guarantee you that there are millions of fans out there that don't understand how you can't like some of that stuff with your wrestling at your age.

I think it all comes down to understanding each other and what everyone is interested in. And if there is a large enough market that wants another wrestling product alternative to what is currently on today (which I feel there is), then you devise a product that can meet their interests so they can spend money on it.

That's the world of business.

Well I think the petition was pretty damn ridiculous, and the "breast fondling" was really not needed in that Orton/Stephanie segment, but I'm not gonna say you've never had any good ideas. There's a difference between telling you that you shouldn't think that way and telling you why I think those things are silly and unnecessary.

I know you have the perspective that some of us should turn off the TV set whenever Hornswoggle comes in. I suppose everyone's viewer behavior is different. I for one, don't want to turn my TV off every time Hornswoggle appears on TV each and every Monday because that is an inconvenience to me. I want to be able to keep my TV tuned into Raw throughout the entire broadcast ... not turn the TV off and continue to channel surf until his segment is finished. That is disruptive.

And I am telling you why I find WWE enjoyable despite the rating, and why plenty of others agree and will continue to spend their hard earned money attending WWE shows and buying pay-per-views and merchandise.

Fair enough. Just like I told you why others are not satisfied with the PG product because it doesn't target their adult interests enough and they aren't willing to settle for a product that attempts to compromise, because it is too toned down for what they are looking for.

As long as we understand each other. Some wrestling viewers are simply more picky and choosy then others.

I understand all of that, and if you want to watch TNA and encourage others to do the same, more power to you. But I don't see the sense in constantly bashing WWE for making decisions based on trying to please all of their fans instead of just some of them.

That's enough for now, I need to get to bed.

I wouldn't bash the WWE as much if they did provide a product that interested me. I have been a wrestling fan for going on 20 years and I certainly don't want to give that up. So that is my way of kicking and screaming while firing others up who may share the same opinions as me, since wrestling has been an integral part of my life.

But no, I am not happy with what I have seen come out of the WWE for several years, and want something that they used to provide for me.

Now that TNA is stepping up to the plate and attempting to fill that void with a more adult-oriented product, you will probably see me do less complaining because there is a wrestling product out there that suits my interests.

 

[Toroc102]

Before Attitude WWE might have been PG but it was nothing like it is today.

Basically, what PG means is that now instead of catering to men(which should be its core audience), WWE will be catering to the mothers of Children. I do not believe WWE being PG brings in more kid viewers than the Attitude Era ever did. People argue that the kids make money for the WWE, well they'd be making that money even if WWE weren't PG. If they had glowsticks back in 98 I don't doubt that the crowd would have been even more full of them then they are now. Kids are going to watch what they want, if wrestling we're as popular as it was in the 90's the kids would be loving it.

Do you guys remember a character called Cartman, the most reviled ANTI-PG character of all time, the character whose shirts we're being confiscated by the bushel at Elementary schools? Kids aren't dumb, they can make choices, they now how to get past a V-Chip better than their parents now how to set it up, just because something is PG doesn't mean a kids going to see it and say wow, that show must be geared towards me, I'm going to watch it.

Lets be realistic, at its core Wrestling is a show about VIOLENCE, how do you reconcile that and PG? The wrestling business as a whole should cater to men, and let them men watch it with their kids.

 

[Irishwrestlingfan]

I personally miss the old wwf. Who will ever forget the undertaker tossing Mick from the top of hell in a cell or stone cold giving everyone the finger? The Rock doing what the Rock does best. Good old JR getting very excited the heel Jerry Lawler. Those days are gone I’ve been watching wrestling for going on 30 years now. And I just find myself hitting the fast forward button nowadays. The wrestlers getting glued up at pay per views and matches getting stopped because of it. I can see the older generation of wrestling fans wishing for compaction from TNA. Will Vince take notice then? PG SUCKS BIG TIME

 

[futurechamp]

I personally hate the PG rating. I remember I started watching wrestling during the attitude era. I actually remember McMahon standing in the ring with The Rock, Ken Shamrock, and Mankind that night on Raw. I miss a lot of the stuff that made the attitude era. The not Middle School D-X, The Hardcore Matches and the Championship, The story lines, Stone Cold Steve Austin(would've this character work in a PG show). I've lost some interest in the WWE.

 

[ChristianRivers]

Before I give my 2 cents, I just read through all of the responses, and man there are some very passionate wrestling fans. I'm another. I'm very critical of both WWE & TNA. But my reason for that is because I'm a martial artist, and will always be one at heart. So I've got a very high standard of what I'll tune into & what I won't.

Now I do believe that PG-WWE has gone in the wrong direction. For example let's examine Cena. Core Demo=women & children and they market him like he is superman, and while the DC Super hero had a weakness IE: Kryptonite Cena on the other hand apparently has no weakness. It's this type of booking that alienates what faithful fans the WWE has left. So of course they're going to tune into the competition. TNA. A side note on TNA where do you think all of those disenchanted Attitude Era fans went to when they left WWE? The UFC, and when TNA popped up they all got hooked at various different times. TNA is the house former WWE fans built, and now they are passionate TNA fans.

Now let's continue. The main problem is not really the rating. I know that will piss off a lot of people who think the rating is the problem. Because it is true there are still some Attitude Era fans who want to experience a new era with their children, and recall the old days when wrestling was better. The problem here in lies with keeping the networks happy. I firmly believe that the WWE went PG to attract more sponsors, and to help clean up its image. In the process gain some younger fans who hopefully won't tune into TNA for a better product. The quality of the writing has declined. There is too much comedy on Raw usually. And out of 2 hours we only get maybe 3 good matches. If you cut 30 minutes of the comedy, and devote 10 minutes to create new stars & feuds perhaps ratings may increase. I've stopped watching Raw. I refuse to watch anything having to do with Raw unless I'm at a sports bar watching a PPV. I'll only watch SD! on the nights I'm not out. The mismanagement of ECW has also turned people off. WWE has lost fans because ECW has become a developmental show for stars who other wise might not hold the World or WWE Title.

Also people complain about the Cena belt. Cena has been shoved down peoples throats so much that the last thing they want is to be reminded of Cena when they look at that belt. Speaking of Cena, 6 months of acting classes would help his character. Preferably where ever Jericho went when he took time off. Also I've sat at independent shows and watched them build the rings, and I've sat late at WWE shows before they run your butt off to see the rings taken apart there too. How hard would it be to have Cena actually learn to wrestle, and while he is at it learn the proper way to sell? Those are my minor gripes with Cena. Right now he looks like a train wreck in the ring, and his acting skills are abysmal.

And finally TNA has brought prestige back to the championships while in most cases WWE Titles are props, and likely don't stay on their champions long enough to see them shine. The logic in this new PG era has gone out of the window. WWE has glimpses of what it could be doing right.

What really annoys me is the themed Pay Per Views. The thing is you take the attraction away. The novelty value you had. Blood should only be used in HIAC or TLC/Money in the Bank. Or First Blood if they ever decide to use it again. I guess you could say the blood rule would apply in Elimination Chambers also. But the blood should be limited to certain attractions. HIAC was used to end feuds because there was no other match that could solve the problem. Now its just another gimmick. The attraction, and what made it so special has been stripped down to nothing. I don't think its the rating itself. I believe its that no exceptions can be made to the rating. The blood argument is there for people believing that wrestling should be realistic. Once you buy into the idea it could be real you're hooked. You can suspend a level of belief to enjoy what you are watching.

I don't believe that WWE is headed towards its end. It's doing its best to fulfill adults and children alike. Unfortunately nobody wants to see Raw become a comedy show. Vince has always wanted the WWE to be more than just wrestling. Ironically that's what it will always be about. I don't watch Raw. I bowl on Monday Nights. It doesn't bother me what I miss cause chances are I can pull it up on the net after I get home. PG creates more problems than it helps, but unfortunately it's an irony he still won't have solved whenever he decides to step down.

 

[Mark0820]

My problem right now with WWE isn't with any specific superstar. It's with how creative and upper management is handling things.

1. The PG era. You want to tone down the blood and sex? Ok. I can see the reasons for that. But to stop matches to clean up a wrestler when he gets cut? Bullshit. Let them wrestle.

2. Limiting moves. Limiting what moves your wrestlers use is bullshit also. Let them showcase their skills.

3. Booking. Holy fuck booking. This past week we had Kofi vs Orton vs Cena for the #1 contendorship at the Rumble. Why not put Kofi over? The Rumble's main event isn't the world title matches, it's the Rumble match itself. Let Kofi go over, have Orton interfere and cost him the title at the Rumble. Then have Vince give Kofi a spot in the Rumble, but an early number. Vince hates Orton in the storylines so it wouldn't be a stretch for that to happen. Or hell, have Vince make a match Orton vs Kofi before the Rumble and if Kofi wins he gets Orton's spot. Kofi wins and goes on to win the Rumble. Orton can get the title at EC and have Kofi vs Orton for the title at WM. It's all about using your bigger names to make the newer guys look good. Since the Kingston/Orton feud started, Kofi has been made to look not quite good enough after the first few meetings. He's lost his last few matches with Orton and it's making him look weak. Have him win a few to make him look credible going into the RR, EC and WM. Their booking is just too predictable.

 

[KofBlack]

We held up a NO PG sign at Raw last night in minneapolis. About 45 seconds later wwe came and confiscated it, and the rest of our signs.

They seem super protective of their image right now. WWE has definitely become completely for the kids. There were a ton of kids in attendance last night, and WWE even had these new WWE TOY booths everywhere in the arena. Literally.

When hornswoggles music hit, we left.

 

[*The Legend Killer*]

My problem right now with WWE isn't with any specific superstar. It's with how creative and upper management is handling things.

1. The PG era. You want to tone down the blood and sex? Ok. I can see the reasons for that. But to stop matches to clean up a wrestler when he gets cut? Bullshit. Let them wrestle.

2. Limiting moves. Limiting what moves your wrestlers use is bullshit also. Let them showcase their skills.

3. Booking. Holy fuck booking. This past week we had Kofi vs Orton vs Cena for the #1 contendorship at the Rumble. Why not put Kofi over? The Rumble's main event isn't the world title matches, it's the Rumble match itself. Let Kofi go over, have Orton interfere and cost him the title at the Rumble. Then have Vince give Kofi a spot in the Rumble, but an early number. Vince hates Orton in the storylines so it wouldn't be a stretch for that to happen. Or hell, have Vince make a match Orton vs Kofi before the Rumble and if Kofi wins he gets Orton's spot. Kofi wins and goes on to win the Rumble. Orton can get the title at EC and have Kofi vs Orton for the title at WM. It's all about using your bigger names to make the newer guys look good. Since the Kingston/Orton feud started, Kofi has been made to look not quite good enough after the first few meetings. He's lost his last few matches with Orton and it's making him look weak. Have him win a few to make him look credible going into the RR, EC and WM. Their booking is just too predictable.

I agree with most parts. As far as it being predictable,to most extents it is,but I have to admit that I did not see Orton winning the triple threat. I figured either Cena or Kofi would've came through. Not to go off topic,but now I know that Cena is injured,so it made sense for him to not win. IMO,I think Kofi should be put in that match,or like what you said.

 

[sleamey316]

When the Hell are people (the PG complainers) going to learn that PG doesn't mean it is just for kids. I wish some of you would get this into your heads. PG means PARENTAL GUIDANCE, which means there WILL be content suitable for OLDER viewers! I'm not sure what its like in the US, but here in the UK our Soaps are PG yet they are for older viewers.

Now i'm not sure if i'm watching a different WWE than a lot of you guys, but I don't see a childrens TV show. I see Tables, Ladders, Chairs, menacing characters, innuendo and some storylines aimed for older people. Sure, at times I think WWE could be better, but for gods sake, STOP BLAMING EVERYTHING ON PG RATING! WWE were Originally more family friendly than they are now during the 80's and 90's.

 

[jman316]

I voted: "I began watching in Hogan Era. I am neither Satisfied or Dissatisfied with PG Era."

wrestling has it's up's and down's, as well as it kid friendly non-kid friendly program. The wwf(e) of the late 1980's-1996ish was kid friendly and then it went non-kid friendly from 1996ish to about 2004/2005. I think after a while you will see small steps towards adult programing. Not sure if anyone mentioned it but you think if Linda McMahon loses her the senate race that the programing will start to drift towards pg 13 or whatever it is rating?

 

[mitchblaze]

I dont mind the wrestling in the PG era but it can get a bit a bit stale so i was wondering why can WWE not make the PPV's a higher rating (pg 13/12a or what ever it is in america). They could get away with this as they are pay events and can put it on the advertisements in the run up to it. Now im not asking for tons of blood but maybe it would give the writing team a bit more leaway in trying to come up with different story lines now they have moved to specific PPV's ie. hell in a cell, TLC (and would help with the elimination chamber PPV comming up)

Just an idea