I really need someone to explain to me why we need crude humor and blood to enjoy a wrestling product.
Because we want it. Why do people need or want crude humor in movies or TV? Because they just do.
When you quit trying to think you can change fans' minds about what type of product they want out of wrestling, then you can better cope with this.
The bottom line is that neither you or Vince are able to tell fans in this day and age what "they should be liking". Those days are long gone and thanks to the Internet, we have better means of communicating with other fans. Because of this, we have minds of our own and can think for ourselves now, instead of being spoon fed by Vince whatever he gives us.
Stop trying to tell fans what they should be wanting and liking out of wrestling, Champ. The fans are the customers here and that is the way most businesses around the world operate. Businesses listen to their customers. Not the other way around. Plain and simple.
We still have awesome characters such as Jericho and Punk, the latter of whom isn't anywhere close to "PG" in terms of what he preaches about.
You are also badly misinformed what constitutes an actual "PG Rating" for Television.
I believe I posted it before, but here it is again, so you can't try to misinform anyone else what it actually is, so people can see the words in black and white:
TV-PG
(Parental Guidance Suggested -- This program contains material that parents may find unsuitable for younger children.)
TV-PG.
This rating signifies that the program may be unsuitable for younger children without the guidance of a parent. Many parents may want to watch it with their younger children. Various game shows and most reality shows are rated TV-PG for their suggestive dialog, suggestive humor, and/or coarse language.
Some prime-time sitcoms such as Everybody Loves Raymond, Fresh Prince of Bel-Air, The Simpsons, Futurama (on FOX and adult swim airings), and Seinfeld usually air with a TV-PG rating. Recently, Cartoon Network has been using the PG rating outside of their Adult Swim line-up to rate shows that may contain suggestive dialogue, crude humor, or scary elements, such as Total Drama Island, 6teen, and reruns of Goosebumps (on FOX, Goosebumps was rated TV-Y7 for scary/disturbing content).
Also, on Nickelodeon, Invader Zim is also rated TV-PG when uncut. The uncut MTV airings of The Ren & Stimpy Show are rated PG. Many feature films rated PG and some movies originally rated PG-13 and R are edited for content in order to earn a TV-PG rating when shown on broadcast and cable television. On August 1st, 2008 WWE programming went to this rating to appeal to a wider range of sponsors.
The TV-PG rating may be accompanied by one or more of the following sub-ratings:
* D for some suggestive dialogue
* L for infrequent coarse language
* S for some sexual situations
* V for moderate violence
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TV_Parental_Guidelines
I hope you read over that very carefully, because these definitions are going to be referred back to in your post below.
Actually, the fact that he's a heel suggests to kids that they should be doing drugs and drinking, which isn't exactly the smartest message for the WWE to be sending.
So what you are suggesting is that the CM Punk persona is really TV-14 material? Interesting theory. Let's check that one out too, while we are at it.
TV-14
(
Parents Strongly Cautioned -- This program contains some material that many parents would find unsuitable for children under 14 years of age.)
TV-14-V.png
Parents are strongly urged to exercise greater care in monitoring this program and are cautioned against letting children of any age watch unattended. This rating may be accompanied by any of the following sub-ratings:
* D for intensely suggestive dialogue
* L for strong coarse language
* S for intense sexual situations
* V for intense violence
Many programs that air after 9:00 pm are rated TV-14, including late-night staples like The Tonight Show and Saturday Night Live. Certain PG-13 or R-rated feature films are rated TV-14 when edited for broadcast.
Adult-oriented cartoons, such as Family Guy, The Cleveland Show, syndicated reruns of South Park, American Dad, some select episodes of The Simpsons [3], and most of the shows in Cartoon Network's Adult Swim line-up have been given the TV-14 rating due to crude, suggestive humor, coarse language, graphic violence, or subject matter considered too strong to be rated TV-PG.
Anime series Bleach and Inuyasha alternatively switch betweeen a TV-PG and TV-14 rating. On Comedy Central airings of Futurama, it is given a TV-14 rating although in reality it deserves a TV-PG rating most of the time. Too some programs are cataloged TV-14 like CSI: Crime Scene Investigation or Grey's Anatomy, for excessive violence, some coarse language or simply strong sexual content.
Live programming like televised awards ceremonies, concerts, and some specials will be issued a general TV-14 rating, because of the possibility that profanity or suggestive dialogue may occur.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TV_Parental_Guidelines
Nope. Didn't see anything about drug references there, either. If I had to wager, it would fall under "Suggestive dialogue". In that case, you have to ask whether or not the dialogue is "Intense" or "Mildly suggested".
If you see someone getting injected with drugs, I would say that it is "intensely suggested". If not, I would say that it is "Mildly Suggested".
So that is TV-PG D for Dialogue.
Besides that, even cartoons now have drug references. Actually, I can even remember back to the Power Rangers where they had an occasional drug reference in that, as well.
Also, last year we had a storyline where Randy Orton attacked an old man and a woman just to get a shot at Triple H's title. Kicking a 60 year old in the skull isn't exactly childish in my book.
You are trying to blur the lines between Rated PG and Rated G. Rated PG is not Rated G.
Randy Orton kicking an old man in the skull and DDT'ing a woman falls under TV-PG V for "Moderate Violence". It is NOT "Intense Violence" so please don't even try to go there.
Someone getting tortured perhaps like in 24 to extract information, would constitute V for Intense Violence. If you think what you saw between Orton and Friends was "Intense Violence" Champ, then I'm sorry, but you really need to toughen yourself up a little bit.
Let's continue:
We also have DX using the term "Suck it" on a regular basi
s,
TV PG S: Mild "Sexual" Situations. You don't see any sex or even simulated sex going on like when Candice Michelle and Triple H were given implied Oral Sex back in 2006 under the picnic table.
along with characters like Cryme Tyme who constantly steal things, auction them off to make some quick cash, and get cheered for it.
Really? When is the last time they stole something, Champ? That's one of the things I complain about WWE taking away from them, because they were far more over with the audience when they were allowed to do it as opposed to when they weren't.
Besides any of that, even if they did steal something, are you telling me that you have NEVER seen a PG rated program where somebody stole something, Champ? Unbelievable. It never ends with you.
That would be Rated PG for "Suggestive humor", btw.
Yes, it actually is. I can see you are the type of fan that wants to believe that Vince is actually putting on a TV-14 program with a PG Rating, because perhaps you think it is cool or something, but in reality and as you can see, he is well within the definition of a PG rating on his program.
Your definitions for what constitutes a PG rating, and what you attempt to apply a TV-14 rating to is simply not accurate, with respect to the definitions here in Black and White.
Some of you just ask for way too much. Wrestling is not South Park,
Wrestling is whatever the fans want it to be. As time goes by and the fans want something different, it should change in order to be as profitable as possible.
You can't seem to grasp the mentality that fans don't like to be told what they should be liking in order to do what's best for WWE's corporate goals. That does not work anymore.
Fans have been dying for some competition to come along for years now to actually give them what they want, and as you can see from the rave reviews that TNA got last night, they seem to be providing these fans with the content they want, by actually catering to their adult interests.
As you know, I have always advocated that wrestling cater 2 different programs to different target audiences to be successful. One for adults and one for families, children, and those that are too sensitive like yourself for older teen/adult programming. You aren't going to get away with telling adults and older teens these days what they should be liking because they care more about themselves as opposed to what makes Vince money. And rightfully so.
They are the customer, therefore they dictate. Not the other way around.
it doesn't have to be too adult to be successful, and the adult elements are definitely still there.
No, they really aren't. It's not adult enough for the adults that want more.
At the same time, branding their product as PG suggests to parents that it's appropriate for their kids to be watching. Those kids are the ones who don't know how to use the internet to watch the shows illegally, and beg their parents to buy them every month. Those same kids are constantly buying merchandise to show off to their friends, because they want to be like their idol. WWE can also attract more sponsors because of their product looking family friendly instead of trashy.
That's fine and dandy. Adults that want more Adult content than what Vince is giving us with his PG rated programming should care about that because ......... ????
All of this ultimately leads to the money, which is the goal of any kind of business, to make money.
Did the Attitude Era not make money for Vince and make him profitable? If I recall, the Attitude Era helped turn Vince into a Billionaire, as the popularity of the company sky-rocketed to the point where he took the company public where he achieved this goal.
The bottom line is that he took risks to make himself a Billionaire. And now that he's achieved that and doesn't feel like he has competition, he doesn't want to take risks anymore with the programming, or push the envelope.
That has been less than impressive to the fans.
And as we've seen in the past, and we're still seeing today, they can still push the envelope to a certain degree. It's a balance, and the scale is in the right place for the WWE right now.
I'm glad it is in the right place for the WWE. It apparently isn't in the right place for a lot of fans out there, though. And they are going to go to another wrestling company, if one can provide the content that they seek.
You and many others out there have this undying need to want to be loyal to the WWE which I whole-heartedly admit, I do not comprehend.
And personally, I'm still enjoying the product wholeheartedly, despite the lack of "asshole" chants or breast fondling. That stuff just really isn't that important to me in a wrestling show, and there are plenty of other forms of entertainment where I can get them.
And that is fine for you. For many others out there, what they want if you care, is some wrestling mixed with some older teen to adult-oriented programming. That is what they want. But you don't care what they want. Then, you act all surprised when you see people bash the WWE or want to get their entertainment from another wrestling company that will provide this stuff.
The problem is your beliefs that everyone should like the WWE because "it has the WWE initials next to the company". It doesn't work that way, Champ. Not anymore. At least not with everyone.