Final: Goku vs. Juggernaut

[JGlass]

Here's the thing about winning this fight. Goku doesn't need to stop Juggernaut. He couldn't if he wanted to anyway. He needs to do the exact opposite. Once Goku works out that Juggernaut can't be stopped (probably when he announces that) Goku needs to fly up high enough to force Juggernaut to jump into the sky (ala Hulk). From there Goku can grab him, and accelerate him to the point where he's in orbit around the planet. The newly created Juggermoon has no ability to stop himself and Goku wins via incapacitation. Juggermoon fumes but can't do shit.

What's Juggernaut doing while Goku's accelerating him? Getting a nice view of earth? No, he'd grab Goku's head and squish it between his hands.

It's a fairly moot point, though, as I'm pretty sure Juggernaut can't jump that high in the first place. If Goku takes the fight to the air Juggernaut is going to throw stuff at him, not try to chase him.

 

[Remix]

What's Juggernaut doing while Goku's accelerating him? Getting a nice view of earth? No, he'd grab Goku's head and squish it between his hands.

He'd find it surprisingly hard. Especially if Goku did the pushing from behind.

It's a fairly moot point, though, as I'm pretty sure Juggernaut can't jump that high in the first place. If Goku takes the fight to the air Juggernaut is going to throw stuff at him, not try to chase him.

Height's actually fairly irrelevant. As long as Juggernaut's not in contact with the ground, Goku can send him into orbit. The key factor is moving fast enough horizontally that gravity is overcome by the curvature of the Earth.

Something in orbit 10 meters above the earth's surface is still in orbit. It just has to be going a lot faster than something in a higher orbit.

 

[JGlass]

He'd find it surprisingly hard. Especially if Goku did the pushing from behind.

And Juggernaut can't spin around and hit him with an elbow or a backfist? Don't be silly, Juggernaut might not be able to stop his momentum cold, but he can certainly change directions.

Height's actually fairly irrelevant. As long as Juggernaut's not in contact with the ground, Goku can send him into orbit. The key factor is moving fast enough horizontally that gravity is overcome by the curvature of the Earth.

Something in orbit 10 meters above the earth's surface is still in orbit. It just has to be going a lot faster than something in a higher orbit.

Juggernaut's top speed is about 110 MPH. I don't know if that's fast enough for Goku to launch him upwards.

 

[Bernkastel]

I think enough people were able to disprove your points considering enough people felt compelled to vote for Goku against Hulk, but I digress.

Wrong. All people did was start herping and derping about different types of canon to try and bring filler into the argument. Which I demonstrated was stupid.

So I guess this all comes down to what you would consider a "fair amount" of his full power. This is why I said fair amount because I knew you would be all over it. I also don't understand why you don't seem to understand Goku's physical strength increases as an SSJ 3. Does it have to be spelled out for you? It's a natural progression.

Where is your proof? If you are going to assume that, then I'm going to assume that Juggernaut can just automatically use the full power of Cyttorak whenever he damn well pleases.

Either way, if Juggernaut can lose via burying or drowning he's in trouble. I also don't think you're giving Goku enough credit when it comes to figuring out that hand to hand combat won't work in time. That's the point of Goku having a massive speed advantage. Even if he did go SSJ 3 and find out hand to hand combat wouldn't work, he'd be able to buy a load of time to figure out something else.

But that would go against his pride as a fighter. Juggernaut would incapacitate himself long before Goku ever thinks to do it himself. And what exactly keeps Juggernaut from simply grabbing Goku and crushing him whenever he gets close to use hand to hand combat before?

Oh, and this mystical energy attack. Actually yes, Goku's speed would still save him considering he could just transport to King Kai's planet like he did against Cell. I mean if we're talking about ripping holes in dimensions surely it's not a huge stretch to think there's a "next" dimension is it?

How exactly would that help Goku if Juggernaut could just punch through into the Otherworld?

Wont work how? To kill him? Correct. I never said it would. I have said it is possible to send him reeling with such various attacks. Reeling enough to put him in a very bad position. We agree on the fact it wont make him bleed\damage\kill him, but you are missing my foint or choosing to ignore it.

I didn't ignore it, but you did a cracker jack job of ignoring my last point. What keeps the Juggernaut from canceling out Goku's ki waves with his physical strength like Frieza did? I doubt a charged Kamehameha would even get him off the ground.

You are the only one saying un-charged. Do you now know for a fact Goku wont use that? If he finds one thing doesnt get the job done, he pulls out a more powerful attack. He would do the same here. He charges it up, appears behind him and WHAM!- off he goes. To the moon Alice...

Same old, same old. If the God Blast failed to do that, do you really think that a IT Kamehameha could?

My point was he doesnt have to be at a certain power level to have greater attack speed than Juggernaut. The fact you are playing dumb or just dont really understand the power of Goku is silly. Plus here we are again, saying the exact same thing. I said he would use speed to try and hit him, then fly off and regroup to find a different plan. You argued my point- by saying the exact same thing. The exact same thing.

He would only fly off and regroup once he figures out that none of his punches and kicks are working, even as a SSJ3. The Kamehameha has failed, the Destructo Disc has failed; if Goku regroups, what is his next logical move?

The Spirit Bomb. Goku would try it; thinking that he had an advantage being able to fly. But do you really think that Juggernaut would just let him sit there and gather energy? Not even Kid Buu was that stupid. Juggernaut can throw boulders fast enough to send them into orbit; and he'd do this in rapid succession until either A) He breaks Goku's concentration or B) knocks him out of the air.

Didnt you just agree with me that Goku would try that and then fly away to regroup? How is that being stubborn an not realizing- if that is exactly what we both agreed would happen?

Only after everything in his arsenal is exhausted. But after using SSJ2, SSJ3, fighting for a few minutes, using multiple ki waves, a Kamehameha, a Destructo Disc, maybe Instant Transmission, and a failed Spirit Bomb, Goku's going to be drained. Fighting uphill against someone like the Juggernaut with near infinite stamina would mean he's less likely to win.

Also Im not ignoring your 'magical attack' theory. I addressed it earlier. Its not a power he originally had or has now. Not listed in the bio. Its not a staple of his aresenal prevalent enough to be mentioned in various bio's. It was a very temporary thing.

Juggernaut gets that power from Cyttorak, and the two are mutually connected through willpower. It's not like some random power up bestowed on a Marvel character that makes them more powerful for a bit. Even if Juggernaut only used the power once, what's to say he couldn't use the power again if he willed hard enough?

 

[Remix]

And Juggernaut can't spin around and hit him with an elbow or a backfist? Don't be silly, Juggernaut might not be able to stop his momentum cold, but he can certainly change directions.

I'm working on the assumption that Goku has grabbed him in mid air. It's hard to change your direction/orientation when there's nothing to push off.

Juggernaut's top speed is about 110 MPH. I don't know if that's fast enough for Goku to launch him upwards.

Don't be silly. We've already established that Juggernaut's launching himself upwards. But let's pretend that doesn't happen. Goku, being an expert martial artist uses some of the elementary concepts of Judo to take Juggernaut off his feet (using Jugg's momentum against him to deliver a throw), then puts him into a low orbit before he can hit the ground, incapacitating Juggernaut, whose orbit is incapable of ending due to Cytorak's powers making him unstoppable to outside forces (including friction) and his inability to stop himself due to being so far away from anything to slow himself down with.

 

[Steve0904]

Wrong. All people did was start herping and derping about different types of canon to try and bring filler into the argument. Which I demonstrated was stupid.

Well I'm not sure if you demonstrated it was stupid, but I don't think we want to get into it again anyway.

Where is your proof? If you are going to assume that, then I'm going to assume that Juggernaut can just automatically use the full power of Cyttorak whenever he damn well pleases.

I need proof for something as trivial as that? That Goku's physical strength increases as a SSJ 3. How about when Gohan freed the Z Sword. He tried in his normal state at first, and couldn't do it, but when he transformed the Z Sword came out of the ground. If Gohan's strength increased then surely Goku's would as well. And why would you assume that Juggernaut can use Cyttorak whenever he pleases. Those are two completely different things.

But that would go against his pride as a fighter. Juggernaut would incapacitate himself long before Goku ever thinks to do it himself. And what exactly keeps Juggernaut from simply grabbing Goku and crushing him whenever he gets close to use hand to hand combat before?

I'm not saying Goku just chickens out for 2 or 3 days, and comes back with a strategy if that's what you think, and I wouldn't say Goku will get close enough to him after the first pass when he figures out that punches and kicks won't work, and even if he did how would Juggs catch Goku. I'm going to borrow your favourite phrase here. I'll just say that he'll only catch him if Goku lets him.

How exactly would that help Goku if Juggernaut could just punch through into the Otherworld?

I'll concede this point, but I'm not sure how Juggernaut would do at 10X the Earth's normal gravity. Especially not if his momentum carried him off the small planet at any time.

 

[Bernkastel]

Well I'm not sure if you demonstrated it was stupid, but I don't think we want to get into it again anyway.

Half of my entire rebuttal to HGR was showing why using the fillers was a stupid idea. It would help if you'd actually have read my previous posts before going "nuh-uh."

I need proof for something as trivial as that? That Goku's physical strength increases as a SSJ 3. How about when Gohan freed the Z Sword. He tried in his normal state at first, and couldn't do it, but when he transformed the Z Sword came out of the ground.

But would he have enough strength to hurt the Juggernaut? As shown last round Goku's best feat for physical strength, regardless of any form he takes, is mountain busting. I've yet to come across a feat better than that.

If Gohan's strength increased then surely Goku's would as well. And why would you assume that Juggernaut can use Cyttorak whenever he pleases. Those are two completely different things.

Juggernaut is Cyttorak's avatar; the two are connected through will power. If Juggernaut will's it, then Cyttorak grants it. As shown when Juggernaut was able to use mystical energy projection to stop Nightmare.

I'm not saying Goku just chickens out for 2 or 3 days, and comes back with a strategy if that's what you think, and I wouldn't say Goku will get close enough to him after the first pass when he figures out that punches and kicks won't work, and even if he did how would Juggs catch Goku. I'm going to borrow your favourite phrase here. I'll just say that he'll only catch him if Goku lets him.

My argument is that Goku exhausts himself trying to take Juggernaut out, letting Big Red take advantage of his fatigue. So far it's not been shown that Goku has anything in his arsenal that can stop Juggernaut, nor has it been demonstrated that Goku wouldn't wear himself out trying before thinking of a different strategy.

 

[JGlass]

I'm working on the assumption that Goku has grabbed him in mid air. It's hard to change your direction/orientation when there's nothing to push off.

It's pretty easy to spin without pushing off of something. Skateboarders, figure skaters, and high divers do it all the time. You just use your core strength to turn your body.

Don't be silly. We've already established that Juggernaut's launching himself upwards. But let's pretend that doesn't happen. Goku, being an expert martial artist uses some of the elementary concepts of Judo to take Juggernaut off his feet (using Jugg's momentum against him to deliver a throw), then puts him into a low orbit before he can hit the ground, incapacitating Juggernaut, whose orbit is incapable of ending due to Cytorak's powers making him unstoppable to outside forces (including friction) and his inability to stop himself due to being so far away from anything to slow himself down with.

While the Judo argument is very appealing, I think there comes a point in Judo where you can no longer use your attacker's momentum against him, especially when he's literally unstoppable. His momentum might just truck Goku when he's attempting to use his Judo techniques.

Also, is there any evidence Goku knows any Judo techniques besides a Judo Flip?

 

[Steve0904]

Half of my entire rebuttal to HGR was showing why using the fillers was a stupid idea. It would help if you'd actually have read my previous posts before going "nuh-uh."

I did read those posts, but if I was to go through and examine each of them here I'd have a headache tomorrow. Not to mention that it's already been done. Like I said, I'd rather not get into it, and I don't think you want to again either.

And tell me why you're so worried about physical strength again. We've already established that Juggernaut is impervious to kicks and punches. Why are you asking me to prove things that don't matter? It didn't matter if this was Hulk or Goku or anyone else.

And why would Goku exhaust himself. He's not just going to throw energy beams forever once he realizes the first few haven't worked, and if he gets him near water Juggs is in trouble.

 

[Bernkastel]

I did read those posts, but if I was to go through and examine each of them here I'd have a headache tomorrow. Not to mention that it's already been done. Like I said, I'd rather not get into it, and I don't think you want to again either.

And tell me why you're so worried about physical strength again. We've already established that Juggernaut is impervious to kicks and punches. Why are you asking me to prove things that don't matter? It didn't matter if this was Hulk or Goku or anyone else.

So you concede that Goku isn't physically strong enough to hurt the Juggernaut, and you also concede that none of his ki blasts would work either. Right.

And why would Goku exhaust himself. He's not just going to throw energy beams forever once he realizes the first few haven't worked, and if he gets him near water Juggs is in trouble.

Why wouldn't he exhaust himself? In every fight I've seen Goku always goes all out. He even went all out against Cell when he didn't have to. He did it because he loves to fight. It's that pesky saiyan pride of his. I'll give you commentary to all of his fights...

*Goku begins punching and kicking; his opponent is evenly matched.*

Goku: "Uh-oh, better use ki blasts."

*Goku fires off a volley of ki blasts; the opponent dodges*

Goku: "Better waste my energy using a Kamehameha."

*The Kamehameha has little affect*

Goku: "This is bad; I better use more punches and kicks."

*The punches and kicks don't work*

Goku: "Oh man this is difficult. I better try and use my trump card the Spirit Bomb, someone cover my ass while I charge this bitch."

Seriously; in just able every fight he has he pushes himself to exhaustion. When he fought Vegeta he was the one that was outsmarted. And if Goku tries to trick the Juggernaut into running into a lake, he could... you know... just change direction.

 

[Remix]

It's pretty easy to spin without pushing off of something. Skateboarders, figure skaters, and high divers do it all the time. You just use your core strength to turn your body.

They aid the spin while pushing off the ground. It's surprisingly difficult to spin much if you try to start mid air. It's even harder when Goku's got a hold of you, making the process harder.

While the Judo argument is very appealing, I think there comes a point in Judo where you can no longer use your attacker's momentum against him, especially when he's literally unstoppable. His momentum might just truck Goku when he's attempting to use his Judo techniques.

It's possible that Goku gets run down. But remember objects tend to take the path of least resistance. Guku's weaker then Juggernaut, but that's not to say that he's unable to throw Juggernaut. One of the advantages of Judo after all is that it uses the opponent's size and mass against them. Juggernaut has plenty of both.

Also, is there any evidence Goku knows any Judo techniques besides a Judo Flip?

I was able to learn a basic Judo toss in less than a day. It's a fair assumption that Goku knows how to send a bitch flying.

 

[Steve0904]

So you concede that Goku isn't physically strong enough to hurt the Juggernaut, and you also concede that none of his ki blasts would work either. Right.

I didn't say his ki blasts wouldn't work. He's only got to send him into orbit. Do we have different definitions of what "physical" strength is? If Goku's max out is 40 tonnes (pointed out by somebody else earlier) he could certainly lift Juggs who only ways a little less than 2. He also has an attack called solar flare that would temporarily blind Juggernaut, then he could get him near water. I also think that if he got directly under Juggs (like underground), and blasted upwards he could take him off the ground especially if Juggs is moving beforehand.

Why wouldn't he exhaust himself? In every fight I've seen Goku always goes all out. He even went all out against Cell when he didn't have to. He did it because he loves to fight. It's that pesky saiyan pride of his. I'll give you commentary to all of his fights...

*Goku begins punching and kicking; his opponent is evenly matched.*

Goku: "Uh-oh, better use ki blasts."

*Goku fires off a volley of ki blasts; the opponent dodges*

Goku: "Better waste my energy using a Kamehameha."

*The Kamehameha has little affect*

Goku: "This is bad; I better use more punches and kicks."

*The punches and kicks don't work*

Goku: "Oh man this is difficult. I better try and use my trump card the Spirit Bomb, someone cover my ass while I charge this bitch."

Seriously; in just able every fight he has he pushes himself to exhaustion. When he fought Vegeta he was the one that was outsmarted. And if Goku tries to trick the Juggernaut into running into a lake, he could... you know... just change direction.

And while we're talking about personalities, Juggs is not known for his smarts therefore I think it's a fair assumption to say that he may tell him outright that ki blasts won't damage him pretty early. It'll be up to Goku to figure out that he can't stop himself which should become evident in more than enough time, therefore meaning that one of Goku's blasts could change his direction. i.e upward. I think Goku is smart enough to do that.

 

[JGlass]

And while we're talking about personalities, Juggs is not known for his smarts therefore I think it's a fair assumption to say that he may tell him outright that ki blasts won't damage him pretty early. It'll be up to Goku to figure out that he can't stop himself which should become evident in more than enough time, therefore meaning that one of Goku's blasts could change his direction. i.e upward. I think Goku is smart enough to do that.

1) If he's so stupid, how would he even know that Ki blasts won't hurt him? He's never seen a Ki blast before, how should he know if it would work?
2) How would he offer that information up before he even knows what a Ki blast is?
C) By the time Juggernaut figured out what a Ki blast is, Goku would have realized that they aren't working.

This entire argument is crap. Juggernaut's not smart, but he's managed to kick the asses of Marvel's greatest heroes time and time again. His level of intelligence will have little to no effect on this battle.

 

[El Rev sXe]

*Goku begins punching and kicking; his opponent is evenly matched.*

Goku: "Uh-oh, better use ki blasts."

*Goku fires off a volley of ki blasts; the opponent dodges*

Goku: "Better waste my energy using a Kamehameha."

*The Kamehameha has little affect*

Goku: "This is bad; I better use more punches and kicks."

*The punches and kicks don't work*

Goku: "Oh man this is difficult. I better try and use my trump card the Spirit Bomb, someone cover my ass while I charge this bitch."

Yep that is exactly what would happen, except for the last part, Goku isn't as dumb as you claim. He always needed for someone to cover him because his enemies had 2 abiltys that Jauggernaut doesn't: he can't fly nor feel his opponent's kii.

Like I said in my previous post, Goku would realize that the only way to defeat Juggernaut would be through the Genkidama. He use's the technique where he blind his opponent (solar something, I can't remember the freaking name!), goes up tho the sky where Juggenaut cannot fly, charges the Genkidama...BOOM! I pretty sure if it wouldn't kill Juggenaut it will incapacitate.

 

[Bernkastel]

I didn't say his ki blasts wouldn't work. He's only got to send him into orbit. Do we have different definitions of what "physical" strength is? If Goku's max out is 40 tonnes (pointed out by somebody else earlier) he could certainly lift Juggs who only ways a little less than 2.

Actually that was filler, but we know Goku is strong because he crushed a mountain with his strength. But is he stronger than Juggernaut? No. If the two got into a grappling contest, which he's done before against both Cell and Vegeta, he'd lose.

He also has an attack called solar flare that would temporarily blind Juggernaut, then he could get him near water. I also think that if he got directly under Juggs (like underground), and blasted upwards he could take him off the ground especially if Juggs is moving beforehand.

I've never seen Goku tunnel underneath the ground before; I've seen Frieza knock him into the Earth before, but I've never seen him actually try to tunnel underground to attack someone.

And while we're talking about personalities, Juggs is not known for his smarts therefore I think it's a fair assumption to say that he may tell him outright that ki blasts won't damage him pretty early. It'll be up to Goku to figure out that he can't stop himself which should become evident in more than enough time, therefore meaning that one of Goku's blasts could change his direction. i.e upward. I think Goku is smart enough to do that.

You are going to knock Juggernaut's intelligence compared to Goku's? Goku may be an incredible fighter, but he's not real big on intelligence. He was outsmarted by Vegeta and then knocked unconscious, he overestimated himself against Kid Buu, and he went all out against Cell despite not having to because he loves to fight.

I don't see one of his ki blasts being able to overpower Juggernaut's momentum while he's moving and lift him off the ground. Goku sent Vegeta flying because not only was he standing still, but he was already in the air.

Like I said in my previous post, Goku would realize that the only way to defeat Juggernaut would be through the Genkidama. He use's the technique where he blind his opponent (solar something, I can't remember the freaking name!), goes up tho the sky where Juggenaut cannot fly, charges the Genkidama...BOOM! I pretty sure if it wouldn't kill Juggenaut it will incapacitate.

The effects of the Solar Flare don't last long enough for Goku to charge a seriously powerful Spirit Bomb. That takes some serious time, and he normally has to have an adequate decoy that will by him longer than just a few moments. And again... Juggernauts momentum... I doubt even a serious Spirit Bomb would work against him even while he's moving.

 

[El Rev sXe]

The effects of the Solar Flare don't last long enough for Goku to charge a seriously powerful Spirit Bomb. That takes some serious time, and he normally has to have an adequate decoy that will by him longer than just a few moments. And again... Juggernauts momentum... I doubt even a serious Spirit Bomb would work against him even while he's moving.

Of course it wouldn't last long enough to charge a Genkidama powerful enough, but it would buy enough time for Goku to go to a safe place...the sky. Like I said before Jauggernaut cannnot feel kii, therefore he wouldn't know where Goku is and even if he does see him, he won't reach him since he cannot fly. That's how Goku enough time to charge a powerful Genkidama.

 

[JGlass]

Of course it wouldn't last long enough to charge a Genkidama powerful enough, but it would buy enough time for Goku to go to a safe place...the sky. Like I said before Jauggernaut cannnot feel kii, therefore he wouldn't know where Goku is and even if he does see him, he won't reach him since he cannot fly. That's how Goku enough time to charge a powerful Genkidama.

Juggernaut can still throw a car at him though. Or a giant rock. Or a house. Or anything that weighs up to or just over 100 tons. How is Goku going to dodge something like that when he's charging an attack?

 

[Bernkastel]

Of course it wouldn't last long enough to charge a Genkidama powerful enough, but it would buy enough time for Goku to go to a safe place...the sky. Like I said before Jauggernaut cannnot feel kii, therefore he wouldn't know where Goku is and even if he does see him, he won't reach him since he cannot fly. That's how Goku enough time to charge a powerful Genkidama.

So if Juggernaut does see Goku in the air, and the Spirit Bomb is pretty hard to miss; even the super dense Kid Buu noticed it, what stops him from hurling boulders at him to either break his concentration or knock him out of the air?

Juggernaut is strong enough to throw objects into orbit. I don't think Goku could dodge and keep up his concentration at the same time. And even if he did successfully connect with a massive Spirit Bomb, Frieza has shown that the move isn't an instant KO.

 

[El Rev sXe]

Juggernaut can still throw a car at him though. Or a giant rock. Or a house. Or anything that weighs up to or just over 100 tons. How is Goku going to dodge something like that when he's charging an attack?

[YOUTUBE]yjJPRnvDy8w[/YOUTUBE]

Around the 3:48 mark, goku doesn't avoid any attack, he recieves them all and yet he doesn't move a single muscle, a kii blast is far more lethal than throwing a car...

At the 5:07 mark, Goku DODGES Buu's energy blast. So yes he can dodge,

 

[El Rev sXe]

So if Juggernaut does see Goku in the air, and the Spirit Bomb is pretty hard to miss; even the super dense Kid Buu noticed it, what stops him from hurling boulders at him to either break his concentration or knock him out of the air?

Juggernaut is strong enough to throw objects into orbit. I don't think Goku could dodge and keep up his concentration at the same time. And even if he did successfully connect with a massive Spirit Bomb, Frieza has shown that the move isn't an instant KO.

Just like I said to JGlass, Goku can dodge what is throw to him. Look at the 5:07 mark [YOUTUBE]=yjJPRnvDy8w[/YOUTUBE].

Now about Frieza, it is true yet you have to analyze levels of Genkidama. The first time against Vegeta, he only used Earth's energy, against Freiza he use Namek's energy, granted, it wasn't enough. Against Buu, Goku used every single human energy and DID defeat Buu. I'm going to be honest I don't know in order to defeat Juggernaut, Goku would use the galaxy's energy or it would be enough with the enrgy of every single living being on Earth (plants, water, earth itself etc). However in Buu's case, we are talking about a menace that DID destroy Earth and was a menace for the entire galaxy, that's as powerful as Buu can be and yet Goku managed to defeat him. While being called "unstopable", I doubt Juggernaut is such a menace and even if he is, well I don't think he could be any more powerful.

 

[Bernkastel]

Now about Frieza, it is true yet you have to analyze levels of Genkidama. The first time against Vegeta, he only used Earth's energy, against Freiza he use Namek's energy, granted, it wasn't enough. Against Buu, Goku used every single human energy and DID defeat Buu. I'm going to be honest I don't know in order to defeat Juggernaut, Goku would use the galaxy's energy or it would be enough with the enrgy of every single living being on Earth (plants, water, earth itself etc). However in Buu's case, we are talking about a menace that DID destroy Earth and was a menace for the entire galaxy, that's as powerful as Buu can be and yet Goku managed to defeat him. While being called "unstopable", I doubt Juggernaut is such a menace and even if he is, well I don't think he could be any more powerful.

I'll concede the dodging part because he did it in the manga. But lets discuss these levels of power for the Spirit Bomb. The galaxy one is off the table as not only did he not show the aptitude to perform a Spirit Bomb that size, but it was never even hinted that he could.

The human population powered Spirit Bomb is also off the table because Goku couldn't get the humans to listen to him when he needed their energy. Mr. Satan had to do it. Even at the end of the series, Goku was still not well known enough to be a globally renowned hero. If you go by DBGT's storyline it takes 100 years for that to happen, and if you go by DBO's storyline it takes even longer.

That leaves the Spirit Bomb powered by the Earth. Goku was able to gather the energy for the move uninterrupted without a diversion, but it wasn't even powerful enough to knock base Vegeta unconscious. I don't think a Spirit Bomb the magnitude of the one used against Frieza would work either seeing that Juggernaut's durability is well beyond Frieza's.

 

[Steve0904]

1) If he's so stupid, how would he even know that Ki blasts won't hurt him? He's never seen a Ki blast before, how should he know if it would work?
2) How would he offer that information up before he even knows what a Ki blast is?
C) By the time Juggernaut figured out what a Ki blast is, Goku would have realized that they aren't working.

This entire argument is crap. Juggernaut's not smart, but he's managed to kick the asses of Marvel's greatest heroes time and time again. His level of intelligence will have little to no effect on this battle.

Thank you for the bolded part. Now tell it to all your buddies, especially Echelon. Echelon seems to be under the guise that Goku will tire himself out before he figures this out.

 

[Bernkastel]

Thank you for the bolded part. Now tell it to all your buddies, especially Echelon. Echelon seems to be under the guise that Goku will tire himself out before he figures this out.

And why wouldn't he? His ki blasts weren't working when he fought against Cell or Kid Buu, and yet he continued to forge ahead, why? Because he loves the thrill of battle. I doubt he'd try to use a different strategy against the Juggernaut until he exhausts everything in his arsenal first, and by that time he'd be fatigued.

Lets look at a hypothetical scenario. Juggernaut has just no sold the Kamehameha like Broly did in the movie filler. What do you think Goku is most likely to do? Say "I can't beat him like this, let me try and send him into orbit," or "Wow he's tough, let me try this again. Kamehameha!"

The latter.. that's the way he's always fought.

 

[Murasaki07]

I would love to say juggernaut but he is outmatched in this. Really there arnt too many characters that are not outmatched by Goku. Or almost anyone on DBZ for that matter. Juggernaut is unstoppable once he gains momentum but other than that he is weaker than Goku in pretty much every way. Goku would be way too fast for Juggernaut to even touch him. And Sayans are strong enough to mess up whole portions of planets with energy attacks. So Goku could easily blast Juggernaut into space from behind. Hulk has side stepped Juggernaut before and punched him in the back accelerating him more and sending him crashing through some buildings. Also Juggernaut isn't as strong as Goku. Cain has been beaten by Hulk who I would say is not on Goku level and Cyclops once said that Juggernauts strength is on the same level as Thor. Thor has also been beaten by Hulk.

 

[Kermit]

Here is how I am voting. If I base it off of the first encounter between the two, I am going to say that Juggernaut kills Goku. However, if there was a second battle, I would place money down that Goku would come back and kill Juggernaut with some never before seen ability that passes all understanding. BUT, I am just voting off of the first encounter, so Juggernaut wins.