Semifinals: Goku vs. The Incredible Hulk

[JGlass]

Round Four

Two of the heaviest hitters have made their way to the semifinals leaving a path of destruction in their wake. Goku's Super Saiyan strength is no joke, but The Hulk didn't get his Incredible nickname for nothing. Which one of these powerhouses will move onto the BattleZone Final?

FIGHT!​

 

[aza1294]

I expect this one to be very close. Hulk & Goku are two of the three who could realistically win so this match should be the match of the round. I am interested to see who wins this as Hulk is very popular and has ridiculous strength and endurance, however Goku possibly has just as much as well as a speed advantage however I've noticed he is underestimated by many in this tournament. At the moment I'm leaning towards Goku but I may be swayed

 

[Bernkastel]

I argued for Goku last round, but I'm going to argue against him here. The only real advantage that Goku has over the Hulk is that he can fly, and Hulk can move nearly as fast on the ground as Goku can through the air.

Hulk has more physical strength than Goku, and his durability levels are so high that even SSJ2 likely wouldn't be enough to put him down due to his regeneration abilities. Hulk isn't Majin Buu, but a Kamehameha through the chest would not be enough to kill him.

Factoring in the fact that Hulk gets stronger the angrier he gets will work in his favor. Normally Goku would have the advantage in stamina, but not here. Why? If SSJ2 isn't likely to work, then he'd have to use SSJ3. The transformation takes time, and it puts a MASSIVE strain on his body to the point where he can only maintain use of the form in a living body for only a couple of minutes. It's arguable that Hulk could simply outlast Goku like Kid Buu did.

 

[Dirk]

I love the Hulk, so I'm waiting for somebody to give a reason why Goku's significant speed advantage won't trump Hulk's regenerative powers. I just can't see Hulk getting a single shot in... He's fast, but Goku moves close to (and sometimes at) lightspeed.

 

[Uncle Phatso]

Now, I've never been a fan of dbz. Or anime for a fact, but I will give credit where credit is due. In my eyes this is Hulks first true test in this tournament. Sentinel was a tin can, Kirby put up a small fight, and like usual Thing got smashed.

But Goku, we have a fight on our hands. Hulk and Goku are more similar in my eyes than people think. That is in strength wise. Both have rose to the occasion numerous times, and got stronger, and stronger, and stronger. But one stops, and the other keeps going.

Until you put the Hulk down he keep getting stronger. Right? Basic argument the whole time. But Goku can keep up with him for a time. Now something I do remember if I'm right, stronger beings in Dbz can feel the power in another being. I hope this is true, because if it isn't I could see this ending in a blunder. Goku goes in regular form and tries to run Hulk down. Pissing him off, and Hulk ends it.

Haha, I can dream right? Well that's just the dreams of a Hulk fan. I would like to post some small evidence against one of Goku's stronger moves. The kamehameha *god that is annoying to spell*, isn't his strongest move. He has more variants of it. But how much power does it have? I have an example below of an eye beam that is said to be hotter than the core of a star.

Spoiler

Gladiator's eye beams are said to be as hot as the core of a star. Well some can be cooler, and some can be hotter, but lets take an average here. "A stars average core temperature will be several million kelvins".

That's not even the strongest beams hulk has tanked. Hulk is a regular to punches, kicks, blades, bombs, bullets, beams, and more. What have they proved to do? Piss him off, what happens when you piss off the World breaker? He ends you.

I don't know how hot, or how much energy Goku's kamehameha is. But we have a base now. Lets go from here.
__________________

 

[Uncle Phatso]

I love the Hulk, so I'm waiting for somebody to give a reason why Goku's significant speed advantage won't trump Hulk's regenerative powers. I just can't see Hulk getting a single shot in... He's fast, but Goku moves close to (and sometimes at) lightspeed.

Whenever I watched the show, most of his instant transmission, I believe that's what it's called involved kicks and punches while moving around his opponet. You're telling me that kicks and punches trump hulk's regen power? How does that even break his skin?

Now I'm sure he could throw beams, or whatever. But just how long can he keep that up? I've seen him wear down, be put in the hospital, and die. Hulk can do the same, but I think this comes to how long can Goku keep his speed up. Stamina comes into play with that.

 

[Bernkastel]

I love the Hulk, so I'm waiting for somebody to give a reason why Goku's significant speed advantage won't trump Hulk's regenerative powers. I just can't see Hulk getting a single shot in... He's fast, but Goku moves close to (and sometimes at) lightspeed.

The only time he moves at lightspeed is when he's using instant transmission, otherwise he is only hypersonic. Flash would be significantly faster than Goku, even as a SSJ3.

Hulk isn't sluggish, and is quick enough to hold his own if Goku tries hand to hand combat, which would be stupid considering Big Green's got the strength advantage. And remember that Goku can only fight going all out with SSJ3 for a couple of minutes; I seriously doubt he would waste it ducking and dodging.

 

[Барбоса]

This is the fight that I have been waiting for. The darling of comics vs the talisman of DBZ and regardless of the outcome of the other semi, this contest should produce the Super Section champion.

I think Goku has a significant advantage in speed but the Hulk may be able to match him in sheer brute force.

However, even if he has regenerative powers, I do not see the Hulk as being Buu and probably not even Cell when it comes to endurance and surviving a kii blast the likes of Goku's Kamehameha. I will say that an enraged Hulk would not give Goku the time to build up the blast but Goku is fast enough to make the time for himself, plus he can fly.

On top of that, Hulk relies solely on all out attack and, while Goku is an idiot in a social setting, he is a most refined fighter when It comes to tactics and with his speed he will able to take advantage of Hulk's uncultured attacks.

Goku wins a long hard fight by Instant Transmission Kamehameha

 

[lenguy]

I always knew it would come down to this match up. I mean it doesn't get any better than Hulk Vs Goku. Two true heavy hitters collide in what I'm sure would be a very physical match up.

There is no question that both have freakishly brutish strength when it comes down to a one on one fist fight. Whom has the advantage? I can not say. I would say Goku,depending on which transformation he's fighting him in, though I wouldn't count Hulk out ether. I'm sure a direct blow from Hulk would be enough to rattle the almighty Super Saiyan. For sheer force,its as evenly matched as one could get.

In the speed department,Goku has this one no question. Hulk is fast for a big guy but Goku moves at speeds that the human eye cannot follow. Even for some of the highly trained fighters would have difficulty keeping up with Goku at higher levels. Plus every time he does transform its not as if he sacrifices speed for strength. He gets bloody faster and bloody stronger as well. When I look at Hulk,I see a big,huge,massive muscly mountain of pure green rage. Now if I recall,as Trunks was fighting cell,he couldn't keep up with Cell's speed as his muscle mass was just to great,it impeded his speed to the point where he had no hope in winning,let alone landing a blow. I'm not sure if this would apply to Hulk at all but I'm sure its worth noting. You can't defeat what you cannot catch.

Another advantage is for Goku his his warrior mentality. He spent his whole life in combat and is arguably the most well round fighter in this tournament. Hulk is a mass of pure rage,there is not much thinking going on in that head. Hulk would need to think and strategies if he has any hope of combating Goku's warrior like prowess. Goku's has fought people who let their own rage consume them to to point where they can't think straight enough to fight. Both Nappa and Vegeta come to mind.

The only time he moves at lightspeed is when he's using instant transmission, otherwise he is only hypersonic. Flash would be significantly faster than Goku, even as a SSJ3.
.

What about S.S 4? I don't see why anybody hasn't brought that up yet. I mean,he as that ability as well. We are discussing Goku,not just the Goku who appears in the Manga. It would be safe to assume we are including all canons of Gokus character here. Just like its safe to assume the same for Hulk and not just Hulk who appears in the animated shows,per say.

I'm still not sure. It would be a close one. I think it would be wise for Goku not to turn this into a brawl. Focus on energy attacks,wear the big man down. I'm not sure is even a full powered Kamehameha wave would be enough to stop Hulk. It would surely slow him down a bit,buy Goku some time. However,if Goku's chooses to do that then much of his energy resources will be depleted,leaving him open for a ass whooping from Hulk.

Why not a Spirit Bomb? I can assure,Hulk is far from being a pure being and would definitely be susceptible to such an attack.
Goku just needs to use the solar flair to blind Hulk,get to a safe distance and power up for the attack,Hulk has no way to sense Goku's whereabouts so that also plays into Goku's favor. I mean its the same tactic he used against Vegeta...though I wouldn't say it exactly pan out for Goku the way he'd hope so. So who knows.

Then there is the Super Dragon Fist. A mass of pure energy that would be able to rip through just about anything. Hulk's skin is tough but from an attack like that,I'd be amazed if he survived at all.

Like I said,it would be a close one and a very interesting fight I'd actually like to see played out. I do,however think Goku just has way more advantages over Hulk that Hulk does over Goku. Though mu opinion remains open for interpretation so I withhold from casting my vote just yet.

 

[Bernkastel]

I always knew it would come down to this match up. I mean it doesn't get any better than Hulk Vs Goku. Two true heavy hitters collide in what I'm sure would be a very physical match up.

No one has brought up SSJ4 because A) It's not canon, and B) the feats for the form are shit.

There is no question that both have freakishly brutish strength when it comes down to a one on one fist fight. Whom has the advantage? I can not say. I would say Goku,depending on which transformation he's fighting him in, though I wouldn't count Hulk out ether. I'm sure a direct blow from Hulk would be enough to rattle the almighty Super Saiyan. For sheer force,its as evenly matched as one could get.

Hulk has allot more power than Goku. Goku's best feat of strength was pushing a mountain apart. Not only can the Hulk do this put he is capable of destroying moon sized asteroids and ripping planets apart with his raw strength.

In the speed department,Goku has this one no question. Hulk is fast for a big guy but Goku moves at speeds that the human eye cannot follow. Even for some of the highly trained fighters would have difficulty keeping up with Goku at higher levels.

Goku is faster in straight line speed, but as far as hand to hand combat I'd just barely give Goku the advantage. Hulk isn't a slouch.

Plus every time he does transform its not as if he sacrifices speed for strength. He gets bloody faster and bloody stronger as well.

At SSJ3 he sacrifices stamina for strength and speed; and SSJ3 only increases his energy level 4 fold from SSJ2. Not really that impressive of an increase.

When I look at Hulk,I see a big,huge,massive muscly mountain of pure green rage. Now if I recall,as Trunks was fighting cell,he couldn't keep up with Cell's speed as his muscle mass was just to great,it impeded his speed to the point where he had no hope in winning,let alone landing a blow. I'm not sure if this would apply to Hulk at all but I'm sure its worth noting. You can't defeat what you cannot catch.

The Hulk isn't hindered by his muscle mass at all; he could jump far enough to make it into orbit, and it would only take him a few seconds.

Another advantage is for Goku his his warrior mentality. He spent his whole life in combat and is arguably the most well round fighter in this tournament. Hulk is a mass of pure rage,there is not much thinking going on in that head. Hulk would need to think and strategies if he has any hope of combating Goku's warrior like prowess. Goku's has fought people who let their own rage consume them to to point where they can't think straight enough to fight. Both Nappa and Vegeta come to mind.

At SSJ3 this is a moot point, why? Because his stamina only allows him to use the form for a few minutes before he becomes exhausted. It's likely that Hulk could simply outlast Goku, and finish him off when he wears himself out.

What about S.S 4? I don't see why anybody hasn't brought that up yet. I mean,he as that ability as well. We are discussing Goku,not just the Goku who appears in the Manga. It would be safe to assume we are including all canons of Gokus character here. Just like its safe to assume the same for Hulk and not just Hulk who appears in the animated shows,per say.

SSJ4 has shit feats, tis why no one's brought it up.

I'm still not sure. It would be a close one. I think it would be wise for Goku not to turn this into a brawl. Focus on energy attacks,wear the big man down. I'm not sure is even a full powered Kamehameha wave would be enough to stop Hulk. It would surely slow him down a bit,buy Goku some time. However,if Goku's chooses to do that then much of his energy resources will be depleted,leaving him open for a ass whooping from Hulk.

Hulk can regenerate; energy attacks won't work. And if the planet blows up Hulk can survive the vacuum of space; Goku can't.

Why not a Spirit Bomb? I can assure,Hulk is far from being a pure being and would definitely be susceptible to such an attack.
Goku just needs to use the solar flair to blind Hulk,get to a safe distance and power up for the attack,Hulk has no way to sense Goku's whereabouts so that also plays into Goku's favor. I mean its the same tactic he used against Vegeta...though I wouldn't say it exactly pan out for Goku the way he'd hope so. So who knows.

If Kid Buu could push the Spirit Bomb back, I'm sure a being that can rip planets apart with his raw strength could too.

Then there is the Super Dragon Fist. A mass of pure energy that would be able to rip through just about anything. Hulk's skin is tough but from an attack like that,I'd be amazed if he survived at all.

Super Dragon Fist only works when Goku absorbs the Spirit Bomb; and it probably wouldn't work due to Hulk's regeneration.

Like I said,it would be a close one and a very interesting fight I'd actually like to see played out. I do,however think Goku just has way more advantages over Hulk that Hulk does over Goku. Though mu opinion remains open for interpretation so I withhold from casting my vote just yet.

His only main advantage is flight. Even his speed is nullified due to the fact his stamina is so much lower than the Hulks.

 

[Remix]

No one has brought up SSJ4 because A) It's not canon, and B) the feats for the form are shit.

Also, GT is shit.

Hulk has allot more power than Goku. Goku's best feat of strength was pushing a mountain apart. Not only can the Hulk do this put he is capable of destroying moon sized asteroids and ripping planets apart with his raw strength.

Yawn. SS3 Goku > Cell. Cell can blow up the solar system with a kamehameha. Who the fuck needs raw strength when you've got credentials like that?

At SSJ3 he sacrifices stamina for strength and speed; and SSJ3 only increases his energy level 4 fold from SSJ2. Not really that impressive of an increase.

Considering SS2 = solar system destroyer, a four fold increase is still pretty fucking powerful.

The Hulk isn't hindered by his muscle mass at all; he could jump far enough to make it into orbit, and it would only take him a few seconds.

At which point he'd have trouble coming down, but still.

At SSJ3 this is a moot point, why? Because his stamina only allows him to use the form for a few minutes before he becomes exhausted. It's likely that Hulk could simply outlast Goku, and finish him off when he wears himself out.

However, Goku doesn't need SS3. He's already got the one tool he needs and it's no more effective at SS3 than it is at base. The Kienzan. It's capable of cutting through things multiple times stronger than the user, and with a good shot Goku can severely injure if not finish off Hulk with one quick move. Unless Hulk can regenerate a limb or more by the time Goku's got another en route to the big green guy.

Hulk can regenerate; energy attacks won't work. And if the planet blows up Hulk can survive the vacuum of space; Goku can't.

Actually, Goku can do just that. Bardock (who appears in the manga) was shown to be able to survive in space (until he was killed/sent back in time). Goku as a Saiyan should also be able to.

If Kid Buu could push the Spirit Bomb back, I'm sure a being that can rip planets apart with his raw strength could too.

And if using the Spirit Bomb was Goku's first port of call rather than a last resort, that would be relevant. However, Kienzan is a game ender here.

His only main advantage is flight. Even his speed is nullified due to the fact his stamina is so much lower than the Hulks.

And the fact that he's able to attack from outside of Hulk's pummelling range. And that he's got the ability to dissect Hulk without any difficulty. And superior combat skills (though not strength, I grant you).

 

[lenguy]

No one has brought up SSJ4 because A) It's not canon, and B) the feats for the form are shit.

Yet,he can still do it. Whether or not the feats are shit is irrelevant because he is still very much capable of the transformation.

Goku is faster in straight line speed, but as far as hand to hand combat I'd just barely give Goku the advantage. Hulk isn't a slouch.

Yes but Hulk is full of rage. He's not thinking clearly as Goku does in the heat of battle.I've given the examples of Nappa and Vegeta and I would suspect the battle to unfold in similar fashion.Hulk would likely blindly just be throwing out blows hoping to find a target. His pure rage when fighting somebody as trained as Goku in the art of martial arts would prove ineffective. Goku is a fighter,Hulk I would classify as a straight up brawler who only relies on brute force. Its like having a body builder trying to go up against a trained martial artist. While physically stronger,the body builder can't compete with the skill that the martial artists brings. Not saying its not possible,just very unlikely.

At SSJ3 he sacrifices stamina for strength and speed; and SSJ3 only increases his energy level 4 fold from SSJ2. Not really that impressive of an increase.

Could be all that he needs though?

The Hulk isn't hindered by his muscle mass at all; he could jump far enough to make it into orbit, and it would only take him a few seconds.

Yeah okay,like I said,I wasn't sure if it would be a factor or not. Just thought I'd bring it up.

At SSJ3 this is a moot point, why? Because his stamina only allows him to use the form for a few minutes before he becomes exhausted. It's likely that Hulk could simply outlast Goku, and finish him off when he wears himself out.

I wasn't just talking it this in terms of his SS3 form but as an entity as a whole. Its who Goku is. Hes not going down without a fight,after all it is in his blood. Plus he's proven more resourceful on more than one occasion. He's not just just going to hand Hulk the victory. Though the stamina point ultimately could play in Hulks favor,I'll take that into consideration.

Hulk can regenerate; energy attacks won't work. And if the planet blows up Hulk can survive the vacuum of space; Goku can't.

I seem to recall Goku facing similar opponents with regenerative powers.
Buu,for example can be blasted into dust and still come back. I don't believe Hulk has that kind of regenerative powers. Plus temperatures in space can get a low as -270.425 C or -454.765 F. Goku many not survive but Hulk would surely freeze to death,nothing survives at that temperature.

If Kid Buu could push the Spirit Bomb back, I'm sure a being that can rip planets apart with his raw strength could too.

Because of a weakened Goku. At full strength Buu was quickly overcome from the attack and destroyed,without the possibility of regenerations.

Super Dragon Fist only works when Goku absorbs the Spirit Bomb; and it probably wouldn't work due to Hulk's regeneration

Like I said,if he can destroy Hulks entire being then I doubt he'd be able to recover from that at all. Its not as if you were to tear of Hulks head off,he would just grow a new one.

 

[nightmare]

We all must be forgetting that Hulk can be knocked out here. He has been in the past- by those not nearly as powerful as Goku. Cap has ko'd Hulk with a shot to the nuts and a shield to the head. Spiderman knocked him out by hitting him with a truck. The Abomination clobbered him with a few punches and sent Hulk to sleepy land. Havok and Iron Man have both (seperately) blasted Hulk in the head with their beams and ko'd him also.


Goku, with all his strength and using his speed advantage, could ko Hulk as well- even if he just uses SS2. If he does find it difficult- Goku could go SS3 and get in at least one focused strike for the extra boost of strength and that could be enough as well. Plus, he has the advantage of flight, IT and his ki blasts\beam attacks to dismantle him with.


Goku could hit a solar flare to distract him, use his speed to stick and move and hit a big ko. He could IT and hit a kamehameha and Hulk would also be screwed. Hulk might have good regen abilities, but he is nowhere near the level of Cell or Buu with it. I have not seen anything that shows Hulk coming back from his body being blasted in half.


Hulk will get his shots in and Goku will realize the sheer power he is up against. From there, Goku keeps his distance. Goku is one of the toughest fighters ever and he is very smart when it comes to strategy. He has plenty to take him out here. This would be a tremendous battle, but Goku will come out the victor.

 

[Davi323]

We all must be forgetting that Hulk can be knocked out here.

And so can Goku. In fact, Goku has died as well. No sensu beans here, when Goku is done, he is done for good. No extra lives.

But the real reason to vote for the Hulk is two-fold:
1. Do not feed the DBZ trolls. A Goku win in this tournament will only feed them. This needs to be avoided.

2. A possible Hulk/Juggernaut Supers final. Admit it. That could be the single greatest fight of all time. You know you want that matchup to happen.

 

[Bernkastel]

Yet,he can still do it. Whether or not the feats are shit is irrelevant because he is still very much capable of the transformation.

SSJ4 is non canon. You know what canon is right? It's the authors original work. Stuff like GT and the movies may as well be million dollar fanfiction. Therefore not credible when arguing with canon feats.

Yes but Hulk is full of rage. He's not thinking clearly as Goku does in the heat of battle.I've given the examples of Nappa and Vegeta and I would suspect the battle to unfold in similar fashion.Hulk would likely blindly just be throwing out blows hoping to find a target. His pure rage when fighting somebody as trained as Goku in the art of martial arts would prove ineffective.

Thinking clearly means fuck all when he has more stamina than Goku. If anything, the angrier and stronger Hulk becomes means more energy that Goku has to spend to keep up. He's on an incredibly short leash as an SSJ3.

Goku is a fighter,Hulk I would classify as a straight up brawler who only relies on brute force. Its like having a body builder trying to go up against a trained martial artist. While physically stronger,the body builder can't compete with the skill that the martial artists brings. Not saying its not possible,just very unlikely.

The martial artist has a snowballs chance in Hell of winning if the bodybuilder is nearly is fast, has more stamina, is more durable, and can regenerate

Could be all that he needs though?

There's no support for SSJ3 Goku being any physically stronger than an SSJ2. Faster? Yes. More ki? Yes. Goku's best strength feat remains pushing apart a mountain, and Hulk could do that all day and night.

I wasn't just talking it this in terms of his SS3 form but as an entity as a whole. Its who Goku is. Hes not going down without a fight,after all it is in his blood. Plus he's proven more resourceful on more than one occasion. He's not just just going to hand Hulk the victory. Though the stamina point ultimately could play in Hulks favor,I'll take that into consideration.

He overestimated himself twice as a SSJ3. First against Fat Buu and again against Kid Buu; in reality he couldn't have defeated either because he did not know his limitations. Against Hulk it'll be the same thing, except that Hulk will eventually get stronger as the fight rolls on thanks to his anger, while Goku will tire quickly due to massive ki bleeding.

I seem to recall Goku facing similar opponents with regenerative powers. Buu,for example can be blasted into dust and still come back. I don't believe Hulk has that kind of regenerative powers. Plus temperatures in space can get a low as -270.425 C or -454.765 F. Goku many not survive but Hulk would surely freeze to death,nothing survives at that temperature.

Based on the research that I've done Hulk's regeneration is on the same level as Cells. Meaning that if Goku blows off a limb or shoots a ki blast through him, Hulk can heal himself...well... as fast as Cell could heal himself.

Because of a weakened Goku. At full strength Buu was quickly overcome from the attack and destroyed,without the possibility of regenerations.

It's already been noted that Hulk has more raw strength than even SSJ3 Goku, so base Goku would have no chance overpowering Hulk with the Spirit Bomb.

Like I said,if he can destroy Hulks entire being then I doubt he'd be able to recover from that at all. Its not as if you were to tear of Hulks head off,he would just grow a new one.

Super Dragon Fist doesn't destroy someone outright; it just makes a big hole, a hole that Hulk could close within moments.

EDIT: Remix, I'm pretty sure the solar system panel from that manga site you showed me was a translation error. I'll go tomorrow to the bookstore to check for sure tomorrow.

 

[Uncle Phatso]

Yes but Hulk is full of rage. He's not thinking clearly as Goku does in the heat of battle.I've given the examples of Nappa and Vegeta and I would suspect the battle to unfold in similar fashion.Hulk would likely blindly just be throwing out blows hoping to find a target. His pure rage when fighting somebody as trained as Goku in the art of martial arts would prove ineffective. Goku is a fighter,Hulk I would classify as a straight up brawler who only relies on brute force. Its like having a body builder trying to go up against a trained martial artist. While physically stronger,the body builder can't compete with the skill that the martial artists brings. Not saying its not possible,just very unlikely.

It's not like having a body builder go up aganst a trained martial artist. A bodybuilder would wear out yes. But the hulk isn't a bodybuilder... Did you read hulks bio? Thanks for this Justin.

Superhuman Stamina- The Hulk's body counteracts fatigue poisons that build up in his muscles during physical activity. In an enraged state, he is capable of exerting himself at peak physical capacity for several days before fatigue begins to affect him. However, much like his physical strength, the Hulk's stamina does increase as he becomes angrier.

DAYS..... At peak physical capacity.

Like I said,if he can destroy Hulks entire being then I doubt he'd be able to recover from that at all. Its not as if you were to tear of Hulks head off,he would just grow a new one.

And this picture my friends combats this argument, and the instant transmission Kamehameha.

Spoiler

Hulk has not only tanked this once, he has done it twice. Vector's power can repel matter. He can focus his power into blasts and did so in this print above. At almost point blank range, he did that to hulk. But still didn't come out on top. It's said that his beam can repel the structure of reality itself.

Granted, I don't think Vector is as strong as Goku, but this is an example.

 

[Барбоса]

And so can Goku. In fact, Goku has died as well. No sensu beans here, when Goku is done, he is done for good. No extra lives.

But the real reason to vote for the Hulk is two-fold:
1. Do not feed the DBZ trolls. A Goku win in this tournament will only feed them. This needs to be avoided.

2. A possible Hulk/Juggernaut Supers final. Admit it. That could be the single greatest fight of all time. You know you want that matchup to happen.

1. This tournament has gone a long way to persuading me that the worst troll is actually a DC/Marvel one. The pedestal they place their heroes on is at times so overblown in comparison to their actual abilities and prowess that it would make the most fervent DBZ fan blush. Worst of all is the way many of them dismiss or ridicule any fighter not from their universe or because they don't like them is embarassing.

2. I have said this already but Hulk/Juggernaut would be an horrendous final. As a fight that has happened, it would be a straight repeat of the Hulk/Thing walkover with no discernable avenue for strategic or tactical discussion.

 

[Davi323]

I disagree. Juggernaut is a far superior opponent for the Hulk than the Thing., who was just a cheap imitation. The Juggernaut's abilities make him a very formidable opponent for someone like the Hulk. In fact, his bio specifically mentions he can go toe to toe with the Hulk. He has also withstood the might of Mjolnir, Thor's hammer. Juggernaut is virtually unstoppable in his own right. Ben Grimm isn't in the Juggernaut's league any more than he was in the Hulk's.

 

[Uncle Phatso]

. I have said this already but Hulk/Juggernaut would be an horrendous final. As a fight that has happened, it would be a straight repeat of the Hulk/Thing walkover with no discernable avenue for strategic or tactical discussion.

How so? Hulk has never beat Juggs cleanly. He beat CM, but really in the fight after Cm, he only pushed Juggs out of the way and, went on his way. Even Hulk's son never beat him, he just threw him into space.

I'm enjoying this, I don't know alot about Dbz. But I'm doing my best to try and combat what is being said. I am a huge Hulk fan, but if he can be beat. Then good for the winner. Last year Hulk lost to Vader, I just laughed and said a few words in the bar room. Unlike someone who is still fighting his backed superhero in the Bar room. I can take a loss.

 

[Remix]

2. I have said this already but Hulk/Juggernaut would be an horrendous final. As a fight that has happened, it would be a straight repeat of the Hulk/Thing walkover with no discernable avenue for strategic or tactical discussion.

Actually, that's a fight that's gone both ways. Hulk's (technically) incapacitated Juggernaut by sending him so far away that he can't continue the fight, and Juggernaut almost broke Hulk's neck in one of their early fights.

 

[Барбоса]

It would be crap because it would brute force vs brute force with virtually no other dimensions to the contest.

Not that Goku vs Juggernaut would be any better mind you as it would just be a repeat of this Goku/Hulk contest.

 

[lenguy]

SSJ4 is non canon. You know what canon is right? It's the authors original work. Stuff like GT and the movies may as well be million dollar fanfiction. Therefore not credible when arguing with canon feats.

I don't see anything within the rules that states that these battles have to stick to the original source material. I mean I'm not going to say that things like Super Saiyan 5,6,7 so on so for are all credible because they are not. That is real fanfiction. From what I understand, Akira Toriyama is credited as an author in the ending credits of GT I believe and over saw much of the production and even designed some of the characters,such as Giru. That's good enough for me to consider it part of the main canon. He may not have written it but he was involved with it quite extensively.

Thinking clearly means fuck all when he has more stamina than Goku. If anything, the angrier and stronger Hulk becomes means more energy that Goku has to spend to keep up. He's on an incredibly short leash as an SSJ3.

As quoted from Frieza "sometimes its the smartest one who wins,not the strongest"

A fully thinking active brain in a fight can mean the difference between a win and lose. Goku's faced many people who have been much more powerful than he has,yet hes outsmarted them by finding a way to beat them. That's his character resourcefulness at work. Hulk doesn't have that luxury. He's too full of rage to actually think about the fight,all Hulk cares about is smash smash smash.

The martial artist has a snowballs chance in Hell of winning if the bodybuilder is nearly is fast, has more stamina, is more durable, and can regenerate

But not that actual combat skill

There's no support for SSJ3 Goku being any physically stronger than an SSJ2. Faster? Yes. More ki? Yes. Goku's best strength feat remains pushing apart a mountain, and Hulk could do that all day and night.

I would say a SS3 is stronger than a SS2,I'm sure a direct punch from a SS3 Goku would hurt more than a punch from a SS2. I don't know where any support arguing against this claim exists. If there is then please,present it. From what I read all around it seems SS3 increases the users power,strength,and ki,most ki though x 4,as you've pointed out. Plus as a SS3 I'm sure Goku could do much more than tear a mountain apart.

He overestimated himself twice as a SSJ3. First against Fat Buu and again against Kid Buu; in reality he couldn't have defeated either because he did not know his limitations. Against Hulk it'll be the same thing, except that Hulk will eventually get stronger as the fight rolls on thanks to his anger, while Goku will tire quickly due to massive ki bleeding.

Goku clearly stated he could have defeated Fat Buu if he had really tried. However that could just be Goku thinking too much of his abilities. Then again this was when the transformation was still new to him. If we are not including GT then we fast forward to the end of Z. 10 years after the fight with Majin Buu is a lot of time,plenty of time to learn more about his SS3 transformation and plenty of time to get stronger because knowing Goku,all he did was train for much of those 10 years.

Based on the research that I've done Hulk's regeneration is on the same level as Cells. Meaning that if Goku blows off a limb or shoots a ki blast through him, Hulk can heal himself...well... as fast as Cell could heal himself.

And we all know what Gohan did to Cell. So much for his regenerative abilities,sure didn't help him much in that situation. Goku could pull off something similar.

It's already been noted that Hulk has more raw strength than even SSJ3 Goku, so base Goku would have no chance overpowering Hulk with the Spirit Bomb.

It all depends on how much energy Goku gathers,from a few people,the entire planet,maybe the whole solar system. However,I don't think Goku would do this at the risk of destroying the Earth,so I'm going to rule that out.

Super Dragon Fist doesn't destroy someone outright; it just makes a big hole, a hole that Hulk could close within moments.

Not if that punch is aimed directly at Hulks skull. Removed the head,threat eliminated.

 

[Bernkastel]

I don't see anything within the rules that states that these battles have to stick to the original source material. I mean I'm not going to say that things like Super Saiyan 5,6,7 so on so for are all credible because they are not. That is real fanfiction. From what I understand, Akira Toriyama is credited as an author in the ending credits of GT I believe and over saw much of the production and even designed some of the characters,such as Giru. That's good enough for me to consider it part of the main canon. He may not have written it but he was involved with it quite extensively.

It's not against the rules, but you'd be foolish to include the fillers because they aren't part of the authors original work. Toriyama was an executive producer for GT; he may have designed some of the characters but he didn't write their back stories, their personalities, or any of the episodes that feature them.

As quoted from Frieza "sometimes its the smartest one who wins,not the strongest"

A fully thinking active brain in a fight can mean the difference between a win and lose. Goku's faced many people who have been much more powerful than he has,yet hes outsmarted them by finding a way to beat them. That's his character resourcefulness at work. Hulk doesn't have that luxury. He's too full of rage to actually think about the fight,all Hulk cares about is smash smash smash.

What are you talking about? Frieza clearly played Goku and made him look like a fool by trying to destroy the planet knowing that the saiyan couldn't survive. Goku cannot breathe in space but Hulk can, so if the planet gets blown up on accident Goku's fucked.

But not that actual combat skill

Having better combat skills mean fuck all if you strength, stamina, and durability levels are all less than the person you're fighting. Hulk would be able to deal more damaging blows to Goku in hand to hand combat than Goku could deal the Hulk.

I would say a SS3 is stronger than a SS2,I'm sure a direct punch from a SS3 Goku would hurt more than a punch from a SS2. I don't know where any support arguing against this claim exists. If there is then please,present it. From what I read all around it seems SS3 increases the users power,strength,and ki,most ki though x 4,as you've pointed out. Plus as a SS3 I'm sure Goku could do much more than tear a mountain apart.

There's no evidence in the canon to support Goku's physical strength increasing from SSJ2 to SSJ3; speed and energy levels? Yes.

Goku clearly stated he could have defeated Fat Buu if he had really tried. However that could just be Goku thinking too much of his abilities. Then again this was when the transformation was still new to him. If we are not including GT then we fast forward to the end of Z. 10 years after the fight with Majin Buu is a lot of time,plenty of time to learn more about his SS3 transformation and plenty of time to get stronger because knowing Goku,all he did was train for much of those 10 years.

He stated it, but he didn't know his body's limitations. SSJ3 is not a transformation that can be withstood by a living body. Goku has to either be dead or in a fused body to get the most out of the transformation. That's why SSJ3 Gotenks > SSJ3 Goku.

It all depends on how much energy Goku gathers,from a few people,the entire planet,maybe the whole solar system. However,I don't think Goku would do this at the risk of destroying the Earth,so I'm going to rule that out.

The Spirit Bomb is not a plausible argument for 2 reasons...

1.) Goku as to remain still in order to gather energy, and Hulk could just simply jump and launch himself at Goku in order to knock him out of the air.

2.) Goku can only charge the Spirit Bomb in base form, so if Hulk knocks him out of the air, which he can and probably would if Goku were to try for the Spirit Bomb, he'd be helpless. SSJ isn't going to hurt Hulk at all, and doubtful SSJ2 would either. Goku has to put forth a serious effort in order to attain and sustain SSJ3.

Hulk would not give him the opportunity to transform back if he chose to drop the transformation to charge the Spirit Bomb.

Not if that punch is aimed directly at Hulks skull. Removed the head,threat eliminated.

Uh... no. Hulk can regenerate any of his body parts and organs if they are destroyed, including his heart and brain. And so can Cell for that matter.

 

[Snitsky4GM]

It's not against the rules, but you'd be foolish to include the fillers because they aren't part of the authors original work.

What are you talking about? Frieza clearly played Goku and made him look like a fool by trying to destroy the planet knowing that the saiyan couldn't survive. Goku cannot breathe in space but Hulk can, so if the planet gets blown up on accident Goku's fucked.

As far as I know 616 Hulk can't survive in space. He can hold his breath for much longer than a typical human can, but whenever he is in space he either has a breathing apparatus or just holds his breath for a while until he can breathe again. In the Ultimate Universe though Tony Stark has stated that Hulk's body adapts to survive, but the Ultimates are a whole different ball game and are pretty lame in my opinion.

Having better combat skills mean fuck all if you strength, stamina, and durability levels are all less than the person you're fighting. Hulk would be able to deal more damaging blows to Goku in hand to hand combat than Goku could deal the Hulk.

The inconsistencies in the Dragonball universe and Hulk's universe make this a difficult thing to call. Goku and Frieza's battle tore Namek apart and yet whenever they battled the androids who were supposed to be vastly more powerful than Frieza just left the land terribly scarred. Later the battles against Cell and everything to do with Buu, the characters were supposed to become many times more powerful than they were on Namek. Yet their fight to the death battles which should have easily destroyed earth many times over by the time Vegetto was taking on Super Buu ended up just causing rock to crumble. Going off of feats of strength the characters get weaker from the Frieza saga on because the writers and animators were trying to convey battles and strength on a scale so massive that it is hard to comprehend.

With this being said, rather than resorting to feats of strength like the Dragonball dudes had done in the past they have us fill in the blank of what is stronger than what. We know this to be true because we know that Frieza is weaker than Cell even though Cell doesn't do nearly as much destructive stuff as Frieza. Taking this into account Goku is much stronger than Goku in the physical department.

Hulk's strength and durability also undergoes drastic changes. One minute he is exchanging blows with Sentry and withstanding some whispers from Blackbolt, and the next he is getting knocked out by people like Captain America and Wolverine.

Hulk is an amazing fighter, especially after he returns after the Planet Hulk story line. He isn't even close to Goku when it comes to fighting. Hulk has experience fighting fast people so he may be able to get some hits in on Goku, but that won't be enough to keep him down.

There's no evidence in the canon to support Goku's physical strength increasing from SSJ2 to SSJ3; speed and energy levels? Yes.

This is one of those fill in the blank situations the writers used. SSJ3 is stronger than SSJ2. Goku stated he probably could have defeated Kid Buu at full strength but he let the fight drag on too long while in SSJ3 because he let stupid saiyan pride get in the way so that SSJ2 Vegeta could fight. SSJ2 Vegeta got whooped while SSJ3 Goku was at Kid Buu's level.

Near the end of the series when Gohan reached his Ultimate transformation Goku stated that Gohan had surpassed even him in strength. But in the film Wrath of the Dragon Goku uses SSJ3 to beat a foe that everyone else couldn't.

He stated it, but he didn't know his body's limitations. SSJ3 is not a transformation that can be withstood by a living body. Goku has to either be dead or in a fused body to get the most out of the transformation. That's why SSJ3 Gotenks > SSJ3 Goku.

He didn't know the limitations of the transformation because he hadn't had much practice with it. The transformation creates so much strain and fatigue on his body that it takes much longer to practice and perfect like the other two super saiyan transformations.

In Wrath of the Dragon Goku is alive and uses Dragon Fire/Dragon Fist to defeat Hirudegarn, so you're made up theory that a single living body can't be withstood by a single being's living body goes into the trash.

Don't tout that the movies don't count either because they are in Dragonball continuity and were written by Akira Toriyama.

Uh... no. Hulk can regenerate any of his body parts and organs if they are destroyed, including his heart and brain. And so can Cell for that matter.

Have you even read a comic before? Hulk doesn't have a healing factor at this impossibly high level you keep talking about and has never shown to have regeneration of body parts like limbs. He can heal like crazy but nobody knows for certain if he can heal through his head being lobbed off.

No brain = no life, I wouldn't put it past some comic writers though that if someone were to put Banner's head back onto his body that it would reattach and end up resurrecting him though.



Goku would defeat Hulk in a fight. It may be a long battle, but he would be able to do it. I voted for Hulk though because I don't like Goku being thrown into contests like these.

 

[Bernkastel]

As far as I know 616 Hulk can't survive in space. He can hold his breath for much longer than a typical human can, but whenever he is in space he either has a breathing apparatus or just holds his breath for a while until he can breathe again. In the Ultimate Universe though Tony Stark has stated that Hulk's body adapts to survive, but the Ultimates are a whole different ball game and are pretty lame in my opinion.

Point taken, but since Goku can't either if the planet goes it's a stalemate.

Going off of feats of strength the characters get weaker from the Frieza saga on because the writers and animators were trying to convey battles and strength on a scale so massive that it is hard to comprehend.

Wrong; the strength of the characters really hadn't increased that much on a grand scale. With Super Buu being a couple hundred fold stronger than Frieza; not millions or whatever. Still planet busters at best.

With this being said, rather than resorting to feats of strength like the Dragonball dudes had done in the past they have us fill in the blank of what is stronger than what. We know this to be true because we know that Frieza is weaker than Cell even though Cell doesn't do nearly as much destructive stuff as Frieza. Taking this into account Goku is much stronger than Goku in the physical department.

But it's not shown; Frieza and Goku were punching each other through mountains the same way Cell and Goku were. The only thing shown to be consistently increased are speed, stamina, durability levels, and energy capacity. Assuming that physical strength increases as well when there's no evidence to show that it does is just poor debating skills.

Hulk's strength and durability also undergoes drastic changes. One minute he is exchanging blows with Sentry and withstanding some whispers from Blackbolt, and the next he is getting knocked out by people like Captain America and Wolverine.

Hulk is an amazing fighter, especially after he returns after the Planet Hulk story line. He isn't even close to Goku when it comes to fighting. Hulk has experience fighting fast people so he may be able to get some hits in on Goku, but that won't be enough to keep him down.

No, but he has all of those other advantages over Goku that I listed so it wouldn't matter if Goku is a better combat fighter.

This is one of those fill in the blank situations the writers used. SSJ3 is stronger than SSJ2.

You are trying to fill in blanks with evidence that was never even shown; stop assuming.

Goku stated he probably could have defeated Kid Buu at full strength but he let the fight drag on too long while in SSJ3 because he let stupid saiyan pride get in the way so that SSJ2 Vegeta could fight. SSJ2 Vegeta got whooped while SSJ3 Goku was at Kid Buu's level.

In the manga Goku immediately started the fight at SSJ3, and Vegeta was never meant to have a turn. He only got one because Goku overestimated his power and stamina.

Near the end of the series when Gohan reached his Ultimate transformation Goku stated that Gohan had surpassed even him in strength. But in the film Wrath of the Dragon Goku uses SSJ3 to beat a foe that everyone else couldn't.

Wrath of the Dragon isn't canon; stop bullshitting me.

He didn't know the limitations of the transformation because he hadn't had much practice with it. The transformation creates so much strain and fatigue on his body that it takes much longer to practice and perfect like the other two super saiyan transformations.

It was stated quite clearly in the manga that the SSJ3 form was never supposed to be used by a living body, only fused and dead beings could get the most out of the transformation.

In Wrath of the Dragon Goku is alive and uses Dragon Fire/Dragon Fist to defeat Hirudegarn, so you're made up theory that a single living body can't be withstood by a single being's living body goes into the trash.

Don't tout that the movies don't count either because they are in Dragonball continuity and were written by Akira Toriyama.

Wrath of the Dragon was written and produced by TOEI; Toriyama had fuck all to do with it. That's why we use the canon for continuation and feats because it's the closest thing to the author's original work.

Have you even read a comic before?

Do you know anything about DBZ? You are showing me that you don't.

Hulk doesn't have a healing factor at this impossibly high level you keep talking about and has never shown to have regeneration of body parts like limbs. He can heal like crazy but nobody knows for certain if he can heal through his head being lobbed off.

Based on the scan provided by Phatso Hulk can regenerate from nothing but a skeleton, meaning he can regenerate his organs through his cells. Some evidence of Hulk's regeneration is better than trying to wank SSJ3's physical strength compared to SSJ2's when there is no canonical evidence for an increase

Goku would defeat Hulk in a fight. It may be a long battle, but he would be able to do it. I voted for Hulk though because I don't like Goku being thrown into contests like these.

And yet you voted for the Hulk anyway; way to drive another nail into Goku's coffin.