Or maybe it was because he was really just that danm good, trying to bury and entire company the guy was successful in is just a cheap move Will, I expect better from you, especially since knowing you you prolly have loads of ECW tapes in that massive cabinet thing you say you have
I'm not taking any credit away from E.C.W at all. I loved watching the senseless and mindless violence that was a bingo hall show. And that's not a cheap shot, it's the truth. But face facts.. Steve Corino, Justin Credible, Lance Storm, Jerry Lynn and a handful of others were the "Wrestling workers" in a Company otherwise filled with drunks, drug addicts and guys who couldn't make it anywhere else.
Raven't character fit him, but not because he's so amazing.. it's because the alternative.. well.. was this..
No wonder he turned to drugs, and started quoting famous poets. He likely had a hard time trying to figure out if he was a Male or Female after that gimmick fucked his head up.
All of that still doesn't change the fact, Edge is better in-ring than Raven is. And hardcore or not.. it isn't like Edge doesn't know his way around a table, ladder or steal chair. Advantage.. Edge.
I already countered this argument, perhpas you should go back and read some more posts before you start spewig the same horseshit as all the other Edgeheads, he's beaten the likes of Terry Gordy & Dr. Death Steve Williams, two guys that are legends in this business, as well as taking Terry Funk to the limit, and nearly beating him(in a match that was far more brutal than the WM Hardcore match w/ Foley), the only reason he lost that match was do to outside interference by Dreamer
The two note-worthy things here, are who he's defeated and almost defeated.
Terry Gordy, a guy who's career hit it's peak in the early 80's.. and didn't fall to Raven until the mid 90's. Nice victory.. tell me, did Raven beat him with an Evenflow, or did Father time put in an assist on this one?
Steve Williams, once again a guy who's prime came about a decade (plus) sooner than his match w/ Raven. But let's not over-shadow the fact that the victory you're likely referring to, was also moments after Williams defeated Axel Rotten - then got sucked into an impromptu match against Raven, then lost.
Terry Funk, yet another Legend, yet another decade (plus) beyond his prime.. and this time, Raven couldn't even defeat him. Oh, but it's okay because Dreamer was to blame. SO, Funk (a 50 yr old man, if not older) held out so long, through all the hardcore violence and punishment that you and all these other mindless E.C.W nuts claim Raven dishes out with the best of them.. only to wait until the final moments before losing.. so Dreamer can save him, and help the old timer find a victory.
SO.. let's recap. Raven knows how to defeat has-beens that you refer to as Legends. Okay.. how does any of that, help against a guy that'd be roughly around the same age, if not younger.. in better physical condition than any of the above mentioned names when Raven faced them, and know his way around a ring including how to handle weapons more so than the above names, w/ exception to maybe Funk.
Advantage.. Edge.
Because IT SHOWS HIS TOUGHNESS, AND THAT HE IS ABLE TO WITHSTAND FAR MORE PUNISHMENT THAN SOMEONE LIKE EDGE
Edge has shown toughness before. He's gutted it out in T.L.C matches, Hell in a Cell matches, Cage matches, and almost any other type of match W.W.E's been willing to put on.
Raven might hold a better threshold for punishment, but that only serves Edge more.. because Edge likes dishing it out. And being the Opportunistic individual he is, it's not like Edge is going to stand in place and wait for Raven to inflict pain on him, unlike Raven, who often gets over confident and allows his opponents to inflict massive amounts of pain on him instantly.. to show some type of mental toughness.
Once again, Edge being the opportunist that he is, with Raven being the sadist that he is.. this is yet another advantage that falls in Edge's court, as he's more than willing to give Raven a Christmas package full of gifts. By Christmas, I mean joyful and by gifts, I mean pain.
Advantage.. Edge.
Oh please Will, you and I both know he dealt with very little barbwire in that match, Raven has survived much much more pain, suffering, and blood loss than Edge could ever dream of, Edge took out a broken down Foley, the guy was only a shell of his former self, and it took everything Edge had to beat him, Raven is far more sick and twisted, he's far more calculating in how he uses his tools of pain than a semi-retired Foley is
I could easily refer you back to the Terry Funk match, in which a guy in his Prime.. Raven.. couldn't even defeat a 50+ year old man, Funk.. and yes, Dreamer played a part.. but a win is a win, and a loss is what Raven took.
The point the hardcore match at Mania showed, was Edge can hang with the Land of extreme.. and not just his Mania match, but the One Night Stand showdown as well. While the opportunistic side of Edge took full advantage and pinned the Woman.. the fact is, earlier in the contest it was Edge's abilities that played the role in helping get Funk & Dreamer out of the picture long enough to do so.
Edge isn't the ultimate opportunists he's more like the ultimate pussy, if anything he just gets lucky, the big reason for most of his success on SD! was due to him fucking the GM, pretty sure he won't be able to do the same with Heyman...or at least I hope not
Geez, do you not understand characters or anything? It was in his character to not use all the skills he has available to win. Thus is what a great heel does. He makes other people win for him. But when he needs to, he wins on his own.
Wow, name calling?
That's sure to gain votes.
So he storyline fucked a GM to gain 3 Championships.. that's 3 more W.W.E Heavyweight Championships than Raven's ever sniffed. And believe me, Raven.. would've fucked Vickie had he of been given the opportunity as well. Raven would've fucked Chavo, if he felt it'd help his career.
Kinda countered your own argument there, good job
Actually, I proved my point. Edge defeated greats like Taker, Cena, Shawn Michaels & Triple H. By himself, or with the help of others. He still holds victories over top Superstars. Whereas Raven can't say the same, even with all the help Raven's had by surrounding himself with "flocks" of people to aid him against the likes of the Sandman and Tommy Dreamer.
When the hell has Edge ever beaten Triple H?
He's defeated Triple H a couple different times through Tag matches, and in set-up matches on television shows building up to Pay per views in which they've been involved in matches against.
Go back to the DX/Rated RKO days. Jump back to the build-up to the Triple Threat going into Backlash w/ H.H.H, Edge & Cena. It's happened.
None of which compare to the level of violence he would face in a match with Raven in ECW
Meh. E.C.W violence is touch and go. You could have one of the most sadistic, brutal and barbaric matches known to man.. or you could have one of the most boring, overrated, flat-crowd pieces of shit a Company's ever tried selling you.
Many know how to reverse it and yet Raven still hits it on them, not too mention Raven doesn't useally go for this move until the end of that match after his oppeant has been beaten down and has lost several pints of blood
Again, you say this as if Raven wouldn't be worn down in his own right. Please, Raven isn't some unbeatable super-power. He's a fucking mid-carder, that was great in this type of match.. but still lost very much so.
And Raven can whack Edge in the head with a steel chair as he's running to hit the spear, not to metion I'm not so sure Edge will be able to stand by that point in the match, ya know losing all that blood and all
Edge wouldn't let the match get that far. Ya know, being an Ultimate Opportunist and all.
(See how you can make things seem one sided and unrealistic - I can do)
Yes exactly Will, YOU should think before you vote, don't let your blind love affair for Edge make your decision for you
I wasn't. I was voting for which Superstar has the better overall talent and natural ability to win this match. It's the guy who's overcome anything set in his path.. not the guy who's made it big, off beating has-beens, drunks and bar mice.
EDGE WINS!
LOL, this statement makes me laugh. So because the WWE puts the title on Edge 9 times in 3 years, he's suddenly a Legend? What a joke. He's won the belt 9 times, and barely has a full year worth of total days as champion under his belt. Just because Edge is so terrible he loses the belt all the time, doesn't make him a legend.
No, defeating guy's like John Cena, Triple H, the Undertaker, and Shawn Michaels all in-route to becoming a Nine Time World Heavyweight Champion.. make him a Legend.. in the making.
And he isn't terrible at losing Championships, he's doing what you claim (later below) he can't.. that's playing his character, to perfection.
So? The fact of the matter is that not only was he successful in ECW, he was also successful in WCW, he won titles in WWE, and he was a World Heavyweight champion in TNA.
Raven won the United States Championship in W.C.W, then lost it a day later. He held the Tag titles for a month, if that, then disappeared. He won the T.N.A Heavyweight title, only to drop it at a house show less than a month later.
You go on about Edge being terrible at losing things, look at Raven's track record. At least the titles Edge's lost were big enough to warrant having constant pressure. Raven couldn't even hold onto a decent mid-card reign.
Calling Raven a career nobody is absurd.
Raven wasn't and is NOT a no body.. but to say he's better than Edge, is absurd and foolish.
The fact of the matter is this. On what basis, aside from the fact that Edge seems to lose title matches quite often, can you vote for Edge over Raven? Edge doesn't play his character as well, he's not as good in the ring, he is comparable on the mic (maybe), and he's no where near as interesting. Don't get me wrong, I can't stand ECW, but saying that Edge is better because he is horrible in title matches is just a silly argument. The only reason Edge is in the main-event is because the WWE put ALL of their creative energies into Edge. They pushed him and pushed him and pushed him to become a main-eventer, and he failed over and over and over again. It wasn't until they finally had John Cena make him look good was Edge finally able to be considered a legit main-eventer. With the type of support and backing the WWE gave Edge, Raven could have been a 9 time World Champion too.
Seriously? Wow, relating Edge's success all the way back to John Cena. Really, Sly, really? You know.. I found a sign the other day.. didn't quite know who it'd fit with.. but this statement alone just made me realize it's perfect for you.
If it doesn't relate to John Cena, you just talk enough random crap to make people think you know what you have a clue about.
Edge's success came off a random event that wasn't in all honesty ever meant to happen. That of fucking Amy Dumas. Now, does that make Edge a fluke? NO.. it makes him lucky to have fallen into that hole. (no pun intended) But it certainly doesn't make him a fluke. He took what he had, and what people put on him.. and he ran with it, and turned it into something a whole lot more.
Nine Championships later, and one of the greatest heels in the industry.. Edge should be blowing Raven out in this contest.. instead, because so many mindless E.C.W fanatics think hardcore = victory every time.. it's a close race.
Raven has better mic skills, "I" will even admit that. I loved Raven for his promos, but that's it. His wrestling ability doesn't compare to Edge, and at most Raven and Edge are tied if not putting Edge over Raven, in the books of strategy. Both men will look for every opening they can take, the difference is Edge has made a Legendary career out of opportunistic openings.. Raven has only ever gotten lucky, at best.
Raven doesn't even need to use the chair. What the best way to counter a guy whose finisher is a head first dive into you? Why, with a guy who has one of the three best DDT's in the business, THAT'S HOW!
So forget the chair - Edge goes for the spear, and Raven quickly counters with the Raven Effect DDT for the win. For fun, the DDT is onto a barbed wire flaming table for all you hardcorists out there. Afterwards, Raven goes to ringside and slips into his Johnny Polo gimmick and proceeeds to also call a better match than any other announcers.
He might as well get a head-start now, because Raven winning this match is something that should never even be a thought.. much less a possibility.
VOTE EDGE
Yeah that's a load of bullshit, and your biased Edge loving ass knows it
