ECW Toronto, Round 3, Match 1: #3 Edge vs. #14 Raven
- Thread starter Shocky
- Start date
klunderbunker
Welcome to My (And Not Sly's) House
This might be the match of the tournament right here. Now Edge's resume is one of the most impressive of all time. He's won 37 titles in WWE, not including a King of the Ring and a MITB. He's known as the Ultimate Opportunist that can steal wins from anyone. He's a threat to beat anyone at anytime.
However, he's up against Raven here. Raven is without a doubt the king of ECW. He knows more about hardcore matches than anyone else in this bracket and is a two time ECW Champion. Basically what this comes down to is simple: how much does the ECW enviroment matter?
Edge is the better wrestler anywhere else, but in ECW all the rules literally get thrown out the window. Both guys have the quick finishing move that could be hit from anywhere at anytime. Edge has some experience with weapons, but Raven's is miles ahead of Edge's. Another very important factor in this is that it's in Toronto. ECW is known for having psychotic crowds, but this is Edge's backyard, which I think neutalizes that. In the end, I have to go with Edge, but it's very close.
However, he's up against Raven here. Raven is without a doubt the king of ECW. He knows more about hardcore matches than anyone else in this bracket and is a two time ECW Champion. Basically what this comes down to is simple: how much does the ECW enviroment matter?
Edge is the better wrestler anywhere else, but in ECW all the rules literally get thrown out the window. Both guys have the quick finishing move that could be hit from anywhere at anytime. Edge has some experience with weapons, but Raven's is miles ahead of Edge's. Another very important factor in this is that it's in Toronto. ECW is known for having psychotic crowds, but this is Edge's backyard, which I think neutalizes that. In the end, I have to go with Edge, but it's very close.
You know, when I think about it, I really believe this would be the best match to take place in the entire tournament. Both guys are truly amazing, and they would just mesh so well. I mean, these are two of the most over heels in the past 15 years. ECW and WCW fans absolutely hated Raven, and since 2005... fans of WWE have hated Edge. And it has a lot to do with the fact that they're both unbelievably skilled on the microphone, and extremely charismatic. But the best part is (and this is what makes them so great), they're able to be legit heels that the fans hate, but still put on terrific matches. That's real talent, and both these wrestlers possess it.
But Raven is in my top three favorite wrestlers of all time. I have been a fan of his since I first saw him a magazine in 1996. Within no time, he became my second favorite wrestler (no one ever pasted Sting). I was 11 years old, and here's this wrestler that dresses like no one else, thinks likes no else, and is one of the most sadistic and violent men the sport has ever seen. Of course I was drawn to that.
Before I go any further, I have to admit that I've been very disappointed with the direction Ravens career has taken since his initial departure from ECW in 1997. He did not receive the opportunities that he rightfully deserved. WCW did way more with him than WWF/WWE, but even they came up short. In WCW, Raven showed that not only could he carry a smaller company, like ECW, on his back, but he could also play a significant role on a much larger level as well, yet they held him back. When he returned to ECW, I was very pleased. It was the second coming, but ECW during this period was treating its legends as washed up has-beens. Their purpose seemed to be to put the new guys over. Losers like Justin Credible, who didn't deserve to be in the top spot. In other words, ECW dropped the ball with the acquisition of Raven in 1999. A beautiful feud seemed to be brewing between Raven and Dreamer, this time with a new twist, but it was dropped. So he just existed for a while longer, doing nothing really until leaving for the WWF/WWE. Of course, that moron McMahon completely wasted what could have potentially been the greatest heel in WWF history. He basically just wallowed at the depths of obscurity for a couple of years before leaving.
Then when he went to NWA-TNA, he seemed to have been reborn. A process which began taking shape in WWE, but was never utilized. Raven was probably more interesting then he had been in years (not to say that he wasn't interesting in WCW or WWE, just that he was not given the opportunity to showcase that talent) because TNA was putting him in the spotlight and putting him in the main event. Not only that, but his feud with CM Punk in Ring of Honor ranks VERY high in my book on my favorite feuds of all time list. But yeah so he's in ROH having a tremendous feud with Punk, and in TNA creating awesome storylines with S.E.X and down the line, The Gathering. However, once Russo got religious and Rob Feinstein had his incident, Raven's career went downhill. I mean, every now and then he would do something special (like his feud with Sabu), but TNA was making the same mistake as WWE and WCW. But then, out of no where, Raven becomes NWA Champion. His fire was relit, and he was putting on great matches and storylines for a good amount of time. As a Raven fan, I was ecstatic during his run as TNA Champion. I ordered nearly every pay-per-view, and just enjoyed the run as much as I could before it ended, because deep down I knew it's his last time to be great. Unfortunately, I was right. He lost the belt in the most fucked up way, and he hasn't been right ever since. However, that doesn't take away his accomplishments and how big of a fan I will always be of his.
Chris Benoit and Kurt Angle and Bret Hart may be the best technical wrestlers the business has ever seen, and Hulk Hogan may be the biggest draw, but technical ability combined with personality, the masterful art of storytelling... basically the overall package, makes Raven, in my eyes, one of the greatest of all time.
And now you have Edge, who, to me, is what Raven would have been in WWE if Vince and company ever gave him the time a day (only, dare I say, even MORE entertaining). But since they didn't, it's Edge who has gotten the huge push, all the title reigns, all the main events, and all the big matches. I am proud to call myself a fan of Edge, but the guy is no Raven. Edge is a tremendous wrestler with unbelievable mic skills and loads of charisma, but overall, I really feel Raven was better. The legacies of each wrestler won't lead you to think that, but to me, Raven is superior in just about every aspect. And I think anyone else who looks at each wrestler unbiasly would have the same opinion.
If you're one of the voters who look at this in kayfabe terms.... this would undoubtedly be a great, great match. Back and forth, tons of interference, lots of weapons, crowd interaction... basically, everything you could ever want in a wrestling match, especially if youre a fan of the original ECW.
In a WWE "Hardcore" match I could understand a vote for Edge here if you're someone who votes strictly off kayfabe purposes, but in ECW? No way. Sure, Edge had one match in the ECW environment and did an incredible job, but Raven has had at least a hundred, if not double or triple that, and was awesome nearly the entire time. Raven embodies everything that was great about ECW in their early/mid-years, and there's no way Edge could ever beat him in that company. No way in fucking hell.
So, yeah I'm voting for Raven. While Edge will definitely go down in history as one of WWE's all time great wrestlers, I still feel Raven in his prime was better then Edge ever was or ever will be. And there's no doubt that were these two ever to meet in ECW, that Raven would find a way to defeat him. Raven should definitely advance here.
But Raven is in my top three favorite wrestlers of all time. I have been a fan of his since I first saw him a magazine in 1996. Within no time, he became my second favorite wrestler (no one ever pasted Sting). I was 11 years old, and here's this wrestler that dresses like no one else, thinks likes no else, and is one of the most sadistic and violent men the sport has ever seen. Of course I was drawn to that.
Before I go any further, I have to admit that I've been very disappointed with the direction Ravens career has taken since his initial departure from ECW in 1997. He did not receive the opportunities that he rightfully deserved. WCW did way more with him than WWF/WWE, but even they came up short. In WCW, Raven showed that not only could he carry a smaller company, like ECW, on his back, but he could also play a significant role on a much larger level as well, yet they held him back. When he returned to ECW, I was very pleased. It was the second coming, but ECW during this period was treating its legends as washed up has-beens. Their purpose seemed to be to put the new guys over. Losers like Justin Credible, who didn't deserve to be in the top spot. In other words, ECW dropped the ball with the acquisition of Raven in 1999. A beautiful feud seemed to be brewing between Raven and Dreamer, this time with a new twist, but it was dropped. So he just existed for a while longer, doing nothing really until leaving for the WWF/WWE. Of course, that moron McMahon completely wasted what could have potentially been the greatest heel in WWF history. He basically just wallowed at the depths of obscurity for a couple of years before leaving.
Then when he went to NWA-TNA, he seemed to have been reborn. A process which began taking shape in WWE, but was never utilized. Raven was probably more interesting then he had been in years (not to say that he wasn't interesting in WCW or WWE, just that he was not given the opportunity to showcase that talent) because TNA was putting him in the spotlight and putting him in the main event. Not only that, but his feud with CM Punk in Ring of Honor ranks VERY high in my book on my favorite feuds of all time list. But yeah so he's in ROH having a tremendous feud with Punk, and in TNA creating awesome storylines with S.E.X and down the line, The Gathering. However, once Russo got religious and Rob Feinstein had his incident, Raven's career went downhill. I mean, every now and then he would do something special (like his feud with Sabu), but TNA was making the same mistake as WWE and WCW. But then, out of no where, Raven becomes NWA Champion. His fire was relit, and he was putting on great matches and storylines for a good amount of time. As a Raven fan, I was ecstatic during his run as TNA Champion. I ordered nearly every pay-per-view, and just enjoyed the run as much as I could before it ended, because deep down I knew it's his last time to be great. Unfortunately, I was right. He lost the belt in the most fucked up way, and he hasn't been right ever since. However, that doesn't take away his accomplishments and how big of a fan I will always be of his.
Chris Benoit and Kurt Angle and Bret Hart may be the best technical wrestlers the business has ever seen, and Hulk Hogan may be the biggest draw, but technical ability combined with personality, the masterful art of storytelling... basically the overall package, makes Raven, in my eyes, one of the greatest of all time.
And now you have Edge, who, to me, is what Raven would have been in WWE if Vince and company ever gave him the time a day (only, dare I say, even MORE entertaining). But since they didn't, it's Edge who has gotten the huge push, all the title reigns, all the main events, and all the big matches. I am proud to call myself a fan of Edge, but the guy is no Raven. Edge is a tremendous wrestler with unbelievable mic skills and loads of charisma, but overall, I really feel Raven was better. The legacies of each wrestler won't lead you to think that, but to me, Raven is superior in just about every aspect. And I think anyone else who looks at each wrestler unbiasly would have the same opinion.
If you're one of the voters who look at this in kayfabe terms.... this would undoubtedly be a great, great match. Back and forth, tons of interference, lots of weapons, crowd interaction... basically, everything you could ever want in a wrestling match, especially if youre a fan of the original ECW.
In a WWE "Hardcore" match I could understand a vote for Edge here if you're someone who votes strictly off kayfabe purposes, but in ECW? No way. Sure, Edge had one match in the ECW environment and did an incredible job, but Raven has had at least a hundred, if not double or triple that, and was awesome nearly the entire time. Raven embodies everything that was great about ECW in their early/mid-years, and there's no way Edge could ever beat him in that company. No way in fucking hell.
So, yeah I'm voting for Raven. While Edge will definitely go down in history as one of WWE's all time great wrestlers, I still feel Raven in his prime was better then Edge ever was or ever will be. And there's no doubt that were these two ever to meet in ECW, that Raven would find a way to defeat him. Raven should definitely advance here.
I share the exact same feelings so far, this would be a match of the tournament qualifier for me. Honestly, you have two guys that are just lights out in the ring, are great at tellign stories in the ring, perfect on the microphone, and excellent at generating heel heat. You have, what I consider, two guys in their primes as heels, fighting in a match where they both excel with using weapons, it's an amazing what if scenario right here.
Raven has done well for himself everywhere he went, even if he was under pushed. He did well in ECW, in fact, there are two guys that were able to excel out of ECW as far as breaking the glass ceiling in other companies, maybe three if you count rhino, and that' Raven and RVD. Raven had an entire faction dedicated to him in WCW, not a bad accomplishment considering everythign going on at the top. The problem for Raven, the NWO split, and his flock simply got lost in the shuffle. However, he accomplished US Title gold, not to shabby there.
In the WWE, Raven was put into the Hardcore Division, yes, that Hardcore Division. Even so, this guy always brought some sort of credibility to that title, winning it a record 27 times. Yes, the title might be a joke, but the guy certainly took just as much opportunities in capturing that title as Edge has with World titles. Raven then went onto win the NwA title in TNA, so a pretty impressive resume.
I love Edge, as he is currently in my top five, maybe top three guys to watch. However, Edge struggled with an over the hill Cactus Jack at Wrestlemania 22, and Raven is going to do everything, and probably more then what Jackd id in that match to take down Raven. Edge left that match shaking, I'm just not sure Edge has it in him to be able to take what Raven dishes out.
Raven has done well for himself everywhere he went, even if he was under pushed. He did well in ECW, in fact, there are two guys that were able to excel out of ECW as far as breaking the glass ceiling in other companies, maybe three if you count rhino, and that' Raven and RVD. Raven had an entire faction dedicated to him in WCW, not a bad accomplishment considering everythign going on at the top. The problem for Raven, the NWO split, and his flock simply got lost in the shuffle. However, he accomplished US Title gold, not to shabby there.
In the WWE, Raven was put into the Hardcore Division, yes, that Hardcore Division. Even so, this guy always brought some sort of credibility to that title, winning it a record 27 times. Yes, the title might be a joke, but the guy certainly took just as much opportunities in capturing that title as Edge has with World titles. Raven then went onto win the NwA title in TNA, so a pretty impressive resume.
I love Edge, as he is currently in my top five, maybe top three guys to watch. However, Edge struggled with an over the hill Cactus Jack at Wrestlemania 22, and Raven is going to do everything, and probably more then what Jackd id in that match to take down Raven. Edge left that match shaking, I'm just not sure Edge has it in him to be able to take what Raven dishes out.
justinsayne
Cody Rhodes is an excellant
I agreed with pretty much everything in your post up to this point
This is where I disagree with you, on Sept. 17th 2006 Edge wrestled Cena in a TLC match in Toronto, and lost, now I know this isn't a TLC match but the TLC match is Edge's signature match and it does bring into play several of the weapons of choice for Edge and Raven, so if Edge is unable to win the match he's known best for in his home town to a guy who isn't really know for using weapons, then what chance does he have against a guy who's miles ahead of him in the world of hardcore/extreme wrestling?, this would be a great match and a close match but in ECW there is no way I see Edge beating Raven, no way at all
Raven wins in an absolute bloodbath
Mighty NorCal
SHALL WE BEGIN?
this basically boils down to how many old school ECW fans we have, Vs how many current WWE fans we have, really.
Personally. I have to go with Edge. Kayfabe wise, I say this is likely even, or porbably even in Ravens favor. The most brutal of the brutal. Edge on the other hand, has done near as brutal stuff, and been successfull, on FAR larger stages, in much more high profile enviornments. Id have to give it to Edge, but barely.
Personally. I have to go with Edge. Kayfabe wise, I say this is likely even, or porbably even in Ravens favor. The most brutal of the brutal. Edge on the other hand, has done near as brutal stuff, and been successfull, on FAR larger stages, in much more high profile enviornments. Id have to give it to Edge, but barely.
lol crowds. That shit is so overrated. Crowds don't decide matches, and if the wrestler is worth a flying fuck, he wouldn't let that shit get into his head.
Raven has wrestled in rabid crowds throughout his career, so it'd do fuck all to affect him. He's the king of hardcore matches, if this were any other match, Edge wins. It's not. Tough shit. Raven in a thriller.
Raven has wrestled in rabid crowds throughout his career, so it'd do fuck all to affect him. He's the king of hardcore matches, if this were any other match, Edge wins. It's not. Tough shit. Raven in a thriller.
Raven wins in an absolute fucking brutal match. Raven was quite possibly the most psychotic man in ECW. This is his specialty. Edge is good, and anywhere else he wins, but this is Raven's backyard. This would be a HELL of a match to watch, and i'd fucking pay to see it. Raven comes out on top.
It's...Baylariat!
Team Finnley Baylor
Everyone here thinks this is the match of the tournament. Yet, we have two of the biggest names in their respective generations doing battle in Cena and Goldberg. But I can put this match up right up there.
We're talking about Raven, who can adapt to ANY wrestling environment. You DO know that he did other things besides the Hardcore match. He was Johnny Polo, he was Scott Levy, the guy obsessed with getting his hands full of Missy Hyatt in Memphis, and he's fuckin' Raven! WHAT ABOUT ME!? WHAT ABOUT RAVEN?!
This is the clusterfuck of the tournament because you have a top tier wrestler in Edge against a man who specializes in the environment in which we're contesting this battle. ECW is Raven's playground. You can forget all of the arguments about Edge and his TLC matches and his matches with Foley. Raven did those matches for years on end...not just on PPV. This is just the single worst draw Edge could have had.
Raven will win this match, because even in Toronto, Edge can't be as hardcore as Raven. He can't take the pain that Raven can take, and he can't dish out the pain necessary to put down Raven. Edge will do everything he can to sneak a win out here, but in ECW, there's no sneaking. You either knock someone out, or you lose. I think Raven can do some damage to Edge in this match, and it'll be to the point of getting him down for a three count.
I take Raven.
We're talking about Raven, who can adapt to ANY wrestling environment. You DO know that he did other things besides the Hardcore match. He was Johnny Polo, he was Scott Levy, the guy obsessed with getting his hands full of Missy Hyatt in Memphis, and he's fuckin' Raven! WHAT ABOUT ME!? WHAT ABOUT RAVEN?!
This is the clusterfuck of the tournament because you have a top tier wrestler in Edge against a man who specializes in the environment in which we're contesting this battle. ECW is Raven's playground. You can forget all of the arguments about Edge and his TLC matches and his matches with Foley. Raven did those matches for years on end...not just on PPV. This is just the single worst draw Edge could have had.
Raven will win this match, because even in Toronto, Edge can't be as hardcore as Raven. He can't take the pain that Raven can take, and he can't dish out the pain necessary to put down Raven. Edge will do everything he can to sneak a win out here, but in ECW, there's no sneaking. You either knock someone out, or you lose. I think Raven can do some damage to Edge in this match, and it'll be to the point of getting him down for a three count.
I take Raven.
Raven is obviously mroe suited to the environment, but Edge is hardly a novice when ti comes to "hardcore" type matches (WM2000, X-7 - won both, beat Foley - the "hardcore legend" at Wrestlemania 22). He also has a far better resume in terms of championships, and IMO is WWE's golden boy in terms of winning a loads of titles.
Overall, Edge isn't a novice to hardcore matches. In comparison to Raven, he very much is. Raven is one of the masters of hardcore. He pushed it to the limit, without ever completely falling over into the nonsensical shit you see in CZW.
I'm sure it's only a matter of time before "Edge always finds a way to win" comes up. Firstly, no he doesn't. Secondly, that is the most baseless, ridiculous and cheap argument to probably grace these forums.
Edge puts up a fight, but ultimately just doesn't have it in him to keep one-upping Raven and ends up a bloody, shaken mess.
I'm sure it's only a matter of time before "Edge always finds a way to win" comes up. Firstly, no he doesn't. Secondly, that is the most baseless, ridiculous and cheap argument to probably grace these forums.
Edge puts up a fight, but ultimately just doesn't have it in him to keep one-upping Raven and ends up a bloody, shaken mess.
SavageTaker
Everybody Has A Price!
Raven wins this match. This is right up Raven's alley. If this was WWE then things would be different. But since it isn't the WWE Raven is going to get the win.
He is one of the most known ECW originals and he can get real hardcore. Could Edge handle that? Sure we have seen him take some punishement but not the same amount of punishment that Raven can Dish out.
My vote is still on Raven and I think it will be hard to find a very good argument for Edge, because of the circumstances he is in... but it is still possible to find an argument that will make me and possibly others vote for Edge.
He is one of the most known ECW originals and he can get real hardcore. Could Edge handle that? Sure we have seen him take some punishement but not the same amount of punishment that Raven can Dish out.
My vote is still on Raven and I think it will be hard to find a very good argument for Edge, because of the circumstances he is in... but it is still possible to find an argument that will make me and possibly others vote for Edge.
Raven if this were a WWE ring I'd vote edge, if this were a WCW ring I'd probably vote for edge, but in a TNA or ECW ring I'm voting Raven. Edge is hardcore i don't doubt that, but Raven is in the top 3 for most hardcore wreslters of all time. So i have to say Raven. It would be a good match filled with brutal spots, but i think Raven can take more than Edge would dish out, Raven in his prime was the most brutal wreslter on ECW Edge would probably be winning until Raven countered a spear in to a drop toe hold on an open chair. Then the match would get brutal and Raven would be covered in his and edge's blood and hit the Flowing DDT off a ladder through a plate glass table and get the pin. this just shows how ECW is great for wrestlers liek Raven and horrible for wrestlers like Buddy Rogers.
Anywhere else, Edge would win this rather easily, but not in ECW. Raven will be at a huge advantage going into the match and he'll know it. It doesn't matter at all if Edge is in his hometown, Raven couldn't give a flying fuck about that.
Edge's "Ultimate Oppurtunist" gimmick won't work as well against another heel who more or less thinks the same way. So, it comes down to the weapons. By WWE standars, Edge is a great hardcore wrestler. But, he would be a rookie in ECW. Raven is one of the best hardcore wrestler of all time, along with Foley and a few others.
This would be a great match, and it will end with Edge falling through a flaming table covered in bloody thumbtacks. Raven FTW.
Edge's "Ultimate Oppurtunist" gimmick won't work as well against another heel who more or less thinks the same way. So, it comes down to the weapons. By WWE standars, Edge is a great hardcore wrestler. But, he would be a rookie in ECW. Raven is one of the best hardcore wrestler of all time, along with Foley and a few others.
This would be a great match, and it will end with Edge falling through a flaming table covered in bloody thumbtacks. Raven FTW.
NaturallyPricele$$
Occasional Pre-Show
I agree with the above posts. Anywhere but ECW and I don't think this match would be close. Raven owns ECW. When Edge takes control, it wouldn't be long til Stevie Richards and Meanie make an appearance. Edge gets distracted, Raven with the evenflow DDT.
Everyone is saying that Raven is going to win because this is right up his alley and he's fucking hardcore and he dominated ECW for 3 years. That's all well and good, but do you know why Raven dominated ECW? It's because it was a third rate promotion with a talent roster equivalent to that of a AAA Baseball team. Yes he has been in some gruesome hard fought hardcore matches, but he was in these matches against guys like Tommy Dreamer and the Sandman. No offense to them but they have done jack shit outside of ECW. Yes I know this match is in ECW so what happens in other promotions shouldn't matter, but when it comes down to it ECW never had anyone as good as Edge in their promotion. The fact that Raven was probably their biggest star proves that being great in ECW didn't really mean shit. And it's not like Edge is a novice when it comes to hardcore matches. This guy has been in numerous TLC matches, Street Fights, Last Man Standing Matches, and Steel Cage matches. Not only that but he faced much better competition in these matches then Raven has ever faced. I mean Edge has defeated the "Hardcore Legend" Mick Foley in a hardcore match. Beating Raven wouldn't be easy, but when it's all said and done Edge would have his hand raised.
Raven wins this. Edge may be the ultimate opportunist, but think of the mind games Raven has played over the years. In his feud with Sandman, he brainwashed his wife and son, and turned them against him. Look how torn Edge was when Vickie got Tombstoned. Imagine how he'd be if she was in Raven's corner, cheering him on and interfering on his behalf? There is no one as hardcore as Raven. Sandman is "The Hardcore Icon", and his best matches were with Raven. Tommy Dreamer is the "Innovator Of Violence", and his best feuds were against Raven. Raven will also have Meanie, Nova, and The Musketeer in his corner. There's nothing Edge can do to go over him.
Raven can give, and take, any amount of punishment known to man. He was in the original barbwire rope match, and he was the man that crucified Sandman. This will be a great match, and last upwards of 30-35 minutes, but Raven catches Edge going for a spear, and levels him with an Evenflow DDT.
Raven can give, and take, any amount of punishment known to man. He was in the original barbwire rope match, and he was the man that crucified Sandman. This will be a great match, and last upwards of 30-35 minutes, but Raven catches Edge going for a spear, and levels him with an Evenflow DDT.
Little Jerry Lawler
Sigmund Freud On Ritalin And Roids
Edge is a hell of a competitor in his own right but he will have a hard time beating Raven especially in ECW. I don't know if TLC matches specifically count as hardcore matches, but he's been in plenty of them where weapons are involved. Raven wrestled in a hardcore environment that Edge can only dream of. It will be a great match but Raven will win with the Evenflow DDT.
This is a bullshit argument in my opinion. Basically everyone is saying that Edge is the better wrestler and the only reason he's losing is because the match is under extreme rules. Last time I checked using weapons to inflict more damage is a fairly easy concept to grasp. The only reason Raven has been in more hardcore matches is because he sucks at regular matches. Edge's ability as a wrestler is far greater then that of Raven's. It's a lot easier to become hardcore then it is to become a quality wrestler. Edge's combination of his hardcore ability and actual wrestling ability is a lot better then Ravens.
I'm fairly certain that Edge would never dream of wrestling in a shit promotion against the likes of Tommy Dreamer, Sandman, and Stevie Richards. Edge prefers his hardcore matches against legends like Mick Foley and he prefers them to take place on the biggest stage of them all, Wrestlemania.
I voted for Edge simple because of the match against Mick Foley. Many touted Foley as the king of hardcore but Edge managed to beat him. I know Raven is a great hardcore star but I have to go for Edge on this one. It is very close but I think Edge would make more use of the extreme rules opportunity. Vote : Edge
klunderbunker
Welcome to My (And Not Sly's) House
Foley was so far over the hill during that match it's unreal. Yes it was his best match back since his retirement, but that isn't saying much. Now had this been ten years earlier when Foley was the King of the Deathmatch in Japan, this would be a different story. I definitely see where you're coming from, but it's just not a realistic comparison to make. It would be like saying a pitcher was good because he struck out Tony Gwynn now. Yes they struck out one of the best of all time, but he's how far past his prime?
Little Jerry Lawler
Sigmund Freud On Ritalin And Roids
You sure like bringing up wrestlers not being much in the big leagues as a basis for your argument. Fact of the matter is, this match is in ECW. Where did Raven make his name: That's right- ECW. I don't care that he supposedly couldn't cut in a "regular" wrestling federation. The match isn't taking place in one of those aren't they?
You can say that Edge beat Mick Foley in a hardcore match at Wrestlemania but Raven made his career off of that and the matches he's competed in make Edge/Foley look tame (even though the flaming table was a nice touch but already done). In this particular match which takes place in ECW, not WWE or WCW, Raven beats Edge here. It's a debate for another day whether Edge is a better wrestler than Raven.
You can say that Edge beat Mick Foley in a hardcore match at Wrestlemania but Raven made his career off of that and the matches he's competed in make Edge/Foley look tame (even though the flaming table was a nice touch but already done). In this particular match which takes place in ECW, not WWE or WCW, Raven beats Edge here. It's a debate for another day whether Edge is a better wrestler than Raven.
I agree with what many have already stated: this may be the match of the tournament. I am a huge fan of both guys and they both have fantastic resumes to their names. Edge is probably one of the Top 3 most successful wrestlers of the past 10 years if we base that on titles won. Raven is one of the most underrated workers of the past 15 years and is the guy that the WWE absolutely missed the boat on. Both men have an incredible gift of gab on the mic and can tell a story in the ring as good as anyone.
This match up would have been tremendous to watch. Although Edge never worked in ECW, I think he would've been over with the crowd, which was not an easy thing to do. Edge has more experience than most WWE talent in hardcore style matches, however, I just don't think that he could take Raven in an ECW ring. At his peak, Raven was mezmorizing. Not to mention, he had Beulah at ringside. Edge would have to overcome a diabolical opponent and be able to fend off some rather fiesty outside interference.
This would be an amazingly brutal match. Edge would definately be able to hold his own, but I just can't see him getting a win over Raven in the House of Hardcore.
Raven advances.
This match up would have been tremendous to watch. Although Edge never worked in ECW, I think he would've been over with the crowd, which was not an easy thing to do. Edge has more experience than most WWE talent in hardcore style matches, however, I just don't think that he could take Raven in an ECW ring. At his peak, Raven was mezmorizing. Not to mention, he had Beulah at ringside. Edge would have to overcome a diabolical opponent and be able to fend off some rather fiesty outside interference.
This would be an amazingly brutal match. Edge would definately be able to hold his own, but I just can't see him getting a win over Raven in the House of Hardcore.
Raven advances.
justinsayne
Cody Rhodes is an excellant
To add to this, you remember what Edge was like after the match with Foley, he was shaking, he looked as if he was going to go into shock or some shit, the match with Foley pushed Edge to the very limit of what he was capable of, and that wasn't even Foley in his prime, much less Raven, who wouldn't give a shit if Edge even left the ring alive, Raven in his prime, in ECW would make anything Edge or Foley did in there match look like childs play, Raven would leave Edge a bloody mess, Raven would tear the flesh off Edge's bones and would fucking enjoy it, this would be a hell of a match but no way Edge walks out of the ring a winner, hell he'll have lost so much blood he'll prolly barely be able to walk
Also people keep bringing up how Edge beat Foley and Raven has never beaten anyone but guys like Dreamer and Sandman, apparently you guys are forgetting Raven successfully defended the ECW World Heavyweight Title against famous veterans Terry Gordy and "Dr. Death" Steve Williams, among others. He gave Dr. Death his first loss in a singles match in the U.S. in many years, he also faced off and took Terry Funk to the limit and likely would've won had Dreamer not gotten involved
Raven wins in an epic bloodbath