ECW: Toronto Sub-Regional

Discussion in 'ECW Region' started by Shocky, Feb 21, 2009.

  1. NSL

    NSL Life's A Bitch, And Then You Mosh

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    Tonight's RAW made the bottom half of this bracket slightly more competitive. While I still believe that Christian would win in a hardcore environment, he was never a clear favorite, based solely on Steamboat's wrestling talent.

    Now that The Dragon has been named as a member of the 2009 Hall Of Fame class, he'll have some added support from the fans, and could pull off a win over Christian.

    I still don't think he'd stand a chance against Edge or Raven, but at least he can make it a little further than expected.

    I still think this comes down to the winner of the Edge v. Raven showdown, with Edge probably pulling off the "upset".
     
    #26
  2. IrishCanadian25

    IrishCanadian25 Going on 10 years with WrestleZone

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    Right now, I see Raven as a slight favorite over Edge. He's thrived in the Hardcore environment longer than Edge has even been in WWE. But it's basically a coin flip right now. Whomever wins the bottom half has no chance against the top half as it stands right now, however.

    Raven has had ECW Wars with Sandman, Dreamer, etc. He's been Hardcore in both WCW and WWF. He, Cactus Jack, and Terry Funk are the only three men who have been legit Hardcore Legends in all three promotions, and Raven even added TNA to that resume as well. Imagine that - Raven has been a Hardcore Mainstay in all four of the major promotions of the past 15 years.

    That's impressive!
     
    #27
  3. NSL

    NSL Life's A Bitch, And Then You Mosh

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    Before anyone tries to school me on Buddy Rogers, let me remind you. This is EC-F'n-W. Even if he manages an upset (yeah, I said it) in the first round, he is not beating Raven.

    Edge is my favorite, only because of his reputation as the Ultimate Opportunist. Raven should win in any hardcore match, but Edge is a supreme thinker, and would probably find a way to win. There's no real chance at an upset here from Christian or Steamboat, unless Steamboat's Hall of Fame induction garners him some extra support.
     
    #28
  4. Little Jerry Lawler

    Little Jerry Lawler Sigmund Freud On Ritalin And Roids

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    If Edge can get through this region it will be a great accomplishment. Raven would have the ECW crowd advantage here but Edge has what it takes to beat him so it's a tossup right now between those two. Right now I'm still picking Edge but Raven can likely pull off the upset here.
     
    #29
  5. CENAtion

    CENAtion WrestleZone Tourn. Prediction Champ

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    To me this region definitely looks like it could be won by the Edge vs. Raven matchup. Edge clearly has his followers(Will) and you know the case can be made for Raven to go over Edge in the ECW Arena. Raven is one sick man who will walk on thumbtacks just so he can inflict pain on his opponent. With that said though, Edge has proven to the world that he can get hardcore too and not only hand out pain but receive it as well.

    I think Edge vs. Raven could be a hardcore fans dream match. Think of all the possibilities these two could do to each other....flaming tables...thumbtakcs...all kinds of weapons. We do know for sure that whoever survives that war will have earned it and is probably going to be hurting.

    I still am somoewhat leaning towards Edge in this one.
     
    #30
  6. Shocky

    Shocky Kissin Babies and Huggin Fat Girlz

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    This is a tough ass subregion to call. You have legit badasses in Raven, Hernandez, and Stan Hansen that could really upset the flow of this thing, but you have Edge and Christian both in their hometowns. It's a virtual toss up.

    Edge should have no problem getting threw Henry, and Honestly if Rogers gets by Raven it will be a shock. Edge is iin trouble here. Raven beat Andre in round 1 in the first Wrestlezone tournament under extreme Rules, and he very well could beat Edge. Raven made it all the way to the Elite 8 in year one, so Raven certainly has a chance of winning this.

    The bottom half is a cluster fuck within itself. On one hand, you have the ultra babyface in ricky Steamboat, but he faces a purely powerful monster in Hernandez possibly in round two. You can knock Steamboat out, and that very well might happen. And then you have Stan Hansen, the guy that popped Big Van vader's eyeball out of it's skull. The guy is a legit bad ass, and he will thrive in an environment like this.

    I'm looking at Raven vs. Hansen, and Stan Hansen may very well be the darkhorse of this years tournament.
     
    #31
  7. TheOneBigWill

    TheOneBigWill [This Space for Rent]

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    Alright, I've had enough of this "Raven will own Edge" bullshit. I've tried playing nice, and feeding people's opinions in thinking that it's gonna be tight and close.. but it's not. Edge wins, plain and simple.

    Raven knows how to use extreme rules to his advantage, because he's from E.C.W. and he's made a career out of it. Well, how the fuck is that any different than Edge making his legacy thus far, off finding ways to beat MULTIPLE MEN in gimmick weapons matches? Ladders hurt a lot fucking more than chairs do. And on that note, Edge has more experience with ladders and how to use them, than Raven does.

    Raven's favorite object is a chair. Need I remind the world who the fuck used the Conchairto? Edge and Christian. That's who. Edge wins. Enough said.
     
    #32
  8. Little Jerry Lawler

    Little Jerry Lawler Sigmund Freud On Ritalin And Roids

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    This gets even tougher for Edge. If he happens to get past Raven, he may run up against Hansen in the finals and that would be a tough match to get through. I possibly still have Edge in the finals against Hansen about I can't discount Raven.
     
    #33
  9. NSL

    NSL Life's A Bitch, And Then You Mosh

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    I agree Edge will win, but based on being the "Ultimate Opportunist". Not by being more hardcore. How many of Raven's matches have you seen?

    Yes, a chair is his favorite, but he's definitely accustomed to just about anything. He's used barbwire, baseball bats, barbwire baseball bats, fire, tables, light tubes, tacks, nails, scissors, staplers, forks, pizza cutters, hammers, screwdrivers...

    Raven is more hardcore than Edge. Edge won't win if it gets ugly. Edge will win because of a mistake Raven makes along the way. But, he won't walk out of it unscathed.

    Mark Henry shouldn't provide much of a test for Edge. His power game will help, but being successful in the current ECW, does not translate to succes in the original ECW.

    Stan Hansen is pure badass. He should easily get past Christian, and it's a shame. Christian is one of the few I figured could upset Edge. Hansen very well could, but I don't think he can get over Hernandez. Hernandez is a lot like Vader. He's big, powerful, and can fly. I don't know if he can take a beating like Vader, so it'll be interesting to see who wins the Hernandez v. Hansen match.

    Whoever wins, still has an uphill battle against Edge in the gimmick round. I'll stick with Edge winning the bracket, but Raven, Hernandez, Hansen, and Christian could all provide a tough test.
     
    #34
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  10. Rusty

    Rusty Is hanging up the boots

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    Um, is this even meant to be close?

    Some of these guys were successful in an hardcore environment, but there is only 1 guy that looks like winning this region. The Rated R Superstar, Edge. I mean, the guy is basically treated as a God on this Forum, and nobody ever disses him and when they do, they usually get 5 people debating with them about the same post.

    Edge beats Raven, easy. Edge beats Christian, easy. Edge vs Mark Henry, am I meant to take this seriously? The only one who can provide a challenge here is Ricky Steamboat, but most of the younger guys won't know who he is and will vote for Edge. Hell, almost everybody will vote for Edge and the guy actually has a shot at winning the whole damn tournament.

    And the worst part is, I want Edge to get as far as possible in this tournament.
     
    #35
  11. Richard

    Richard Est. 1991

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    Much like what was said before, Edge is the Ultimate Opportunist and if these matches up were to happen in real life, I think he'd end up finding some way to win, because that's what he does, he'll get beaten up pretty bad by Steamboat, or Raven, but then he'd find a way to sneak in a pin, wether it be by a roll up, using outside interferance.

    Steamboat vs Edge with Steamboat being in his prime vs the Edge of today would be a good match I would think, a classic face vs a classic heel who people want to see get the shit beat out of. I think Edge would have the upper hand anyway, being in an ECW environment which I'm going to assume is the same ECW as the old ECW? Edge just seems more hardcore to me than Steamboat does, I see him more as a pure wrestler. He would put up a good fight, but I know Edge would just find a way.

    Raven and Christian would be able to put up a good fight against Edge in a hardcore environment, particularly Raven who I think Edge would have to look out for but wouldn't have to worry about too much because I don't think Raven would have enough support as Edge does on here. Christian just isn't as good. Plain and simple.

    Edge should and will win this ECW Sub-Region.
     
    #36
  12. NSL

    NSL Life's A Bitch, And Then You Mosh

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    Let's see. This is ECW, and Raven is in this bracket.

    That's a yes.

    Add in Hansen and Hernandez, and you have potential for an upset.

    Add in Steamboat, and you have a shot at great wrestling, while still including the hardcore environment.

    That won't stop me from debating Raven over Edge. edge is the Ultimate Opportunist, and will probably win, but that doesn't mean he should blow out Raven. Without Raven, there wouldn't be any memories of old school ECW.

    It was stated before, that Hansen is a hardcore motherfucker. He's the guy who knocked Vader's eye out.

    Hernandez shouldn't be overlooked either. He's not known for "hardcore", but has enough size and speed to surprise some people.

    It'd be hard for Will to say that with a straight face.

    In a wrestling match? Sure. In an ECW match? He wins, but not easily. Christian is smart enough to keep it close, but Edge would definitely get the win in the end.

    Ye...No. I got nothing.

    It's funny hearing you say "younger guys". Steamboat would wipe the floor with Edge in a WWE ring. He's out of his element in ECW, so he'll be at a disadvantage, but Edge will still pull off the win.

    He does. But, since he's in ECW, he'll have a tough go against guys like Vader, Austin, Hardy, Lesnar, and Raven. And, we haven't even heard almost half the names.

    That's not a reason to vote for him.
     
    #37
  13. NSL

    NSL Life's A Bitch, And Then You Mosh

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    Chris Hero, who?

    I'll look him up, but I doubt I'll find anything worth putting him over Christian. When the seeds were first being announced, there was a few people saying that Christian could be the upset for Edge, so it'd take something extraordinary to knock him off in the first round. The fact that he's a 54 seed, means that there won't be that extraordinary moment to make me change my mind.
     
    #38
  14. Blade

    Blade "Original Blade"

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    As much as I'd love to see Christian vs Edge to decide the winner, Steamboat will definately interfere in that. And Christian has a few tough matches here, so he might not make it to Edge. But I still think Edge could win it overall.
     
    #39
  15. Cena's Little Helper

    Cena's Little Helper Mid-Card Championship Winner

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    Steamboat and Hansen are my guys. Should Steamboat and Hansen face off, I'll have to go with Hansen. I'll try to get Hansen to the finals before he undoubtedly loses to Edge, as Edge just has too much of a fan base here. Furthermore, given how Edge is treated in WWE, I'm pretty sure many will feel sympathetic towards him and give him the support here that he apparently doesn't have there.
     
    #40
  16. NSL

    NSL Life's A Bitch, And Then You Mosh

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    If Cabana wins here, I'll be fumed. For everyone that loves Flair, they need to love Rogers as well. There is no Flair without Rogers. Cabana hasn't proven he can even cut it anywhere but in an indy company. I'm not saying he isn't talented, but he isn't nearly good enough to get out of the first round.

    :blink:

    Hernandez is one of my picks to go far in ECW, and he should still pull off the win here. The match would be entertaining as hell, but in an extreme environment, Hernandez should be able to stick it out for the win.
     
    #41
  17. NSL

    NSL Life's A Bitch, And Then You Mosh

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    Although neither man stands a chance against Edge, I'm kind of saddened that Morton got such a bad draw. He made a career of taking a beating, but he's never faced what he faces here. He could empty his entire bag of moves, and still not make a dent. Henry will win, but it'll be bittersweet. Edge will beat him in Round 2, most likely in a squash.
     
    #42
  18. It's...Baylariat!

    It's...Baylariat! Team Finnley Baylor

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    Hansen can wrestle, folks. Sure he thrives in brawling and just flat out beating people's asses, he can hold his own in the squared circle. But in a hardcore environment, The Bad Man from Borger can thrive in this environment. However, Edge can adapt to ANY environment, and ultimately comes out of this region...but Hansen will beat his head and ass together in the process.

    Edge comes out of this region bloodied, but a winner.
     
    #43
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  19. Shocky

    Shocky Kissin Babies and Huggin Fat Girlz

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    Round 1 Results

    Edge vs. Kiniski: 53-1. Total beat down for the Rated R Superstar, which makes me wonder if anyone read about Kiniski?

    Henry vs. Morton: 30-2. This one honestly surprised me. There is a tangible hatred for Mark Henry on the IWC, yet the guy dominated a darling.

    Raven vs. Hillbilly Jim: 33-0. Raven went and messed with a country boy, and he messed him up bad to get the elusive skunk job.

    Buddy Rogers vs. Colt CaBana. 23-22. The Nature Boy gets by in what was quietly a very competitive match.

    Steamboat vs. Mistico: 27-2. Ricky Steamboat moves on with ease, and I'd imagine with his Wrestlemania weekend, that trend will continue.

    Hernandez vs. Kowalski: 11-17. Super Mex goes home in round one to the guy that will be known only for training triple H by the time the WWE rewrites history.

    Christian vs. Chris Hero: 33-7. Captain Charisma has no problem with the guy that is only known for getting into a fight with a fan.

    Stan Hansen vs. 3 Faces of Shango: 17-5. One of the most dangerous men in this tournaemtn, and genuine darkhorse moves onto round 2.


    Round 2:
    Toronto, ON.

    3. Edge
    30. Mark Henry

    14. Raven
    19. Buddy Rogers


    6. Ricky Steamboat
    38. Killer Kowalski

    11. Christian Cage
    22. Stan Hansen
     
    #44
  20. Shocky

    Shocky Kissin Babies and Huggin Fat Girlz

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    Round 2 Results:

    Edge vs. Mark Henry: 36-4. As expected, Edge simply wins this match. Mark Henry is good, but Edge is making himself into a legend in this business.

    Raven vs. Rogers: 31-2. Rogers isn't in the same world as Raven in this matchup, and the numbers showed it. Never has there been a more natural fit for his region then Raven right now.

    Steamboat vs. Kowalski: 31-1. Thank you Wrestlemania. The batlle of legends sees steamboat absolutely take it to Kowalski.

    Christian vs. Hansen: 26-25. Easily the closest match thus far of the 2nd round with the most votes. Christian was down, and comes back and takes this match at the very end. Damn good showing by Hansen, considering he's a relative unknown on these forums, but in the end, the hometwon boy moves on.


    Round 3.
    Toronto, ON.

    3. Edge
    14. Raven

    6. Ricky Steamboat
    11. Christian Cage
     
    #45
  21. Uncle Sam

    Uncle Sam Rear Naked Bloke

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    These are some really awesome sub-regional semi-finals here. I'm sure there are better ones, but these are impressive.

    People are going to talk about how Edge has a hardcore history... and also the rather cheap argument of "well, uh, he always pulls something out of the bag". Simply put, Edge doesn't know the meaning of hardcore like Raven does. A match with Foley here and some messy fumbles with some aging nobodies there is nothing. Raven lives and breathes hardcore.

    Ricky Steamboat, on the other hand, does not. As much as I would like a regional final of Edge/Christian, I think it'll only be Christian going through. Steamboat's great. He's better than great. But he's in ECW. It's not Christian's domain, but Captain Charisma is certainly much more comfortable than The Dragon.
     
    #46
  22. Little Jerry Lawler

    Little Jerry Lawler Sigmund Freud On Ritalin And Roids

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    Edge may have been in a hardcore match with Mick Foley and participated in more TLC matches than anyone, but Raven can go more hardcore than him any day of the week. I know Edge feeds off the crowd and they will be booing him all over place and he can pull a sneaky win out, but I don't know if he can pull it off against Raven.
     
    #47
  23. Jack-Hammer

    Jack-Hammer YOU WILL RESPECT MY AUTHORITAH!!!!
    Staff Member Moderator

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    As for Edge vs. Raven, I'll take Edge anyday. I know some people don't like Edge and that's all well and good, but basing a decision based simply on where a match is held...ehhh just not for me. Edge is a 9 time World Champion and he's beaten the likes of Angle, Randy Orton, Benoit, HBK, Kane, Foley, the Undertaker, etc. Raven is yet another overrated ECW that some feel will take this match based simply on where it's held. Raven's proved nothing to me, never did prove anything to me. Edge has wins over some of the best, Raven doesn't.

    As for Steamboat and Cage, Steamboat I think would take Cage in this. The reason why so many people say Ricky Steamboat is one of the best to ever put on a pair of tights is because he's one of the best to ever put on a pair of tights. The guy was shit on the mic and usually didn't cut promos worth a damn, but he could always pull it together in the ring. I think Christian is pretty good, and I think he'd have a good showing against Steamboat but he's just not in Steamboat's league.
     
    #48
  24. Uncle Sam

    Uncle Sam Rear Naked Bloke

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    I love Edge. Out of the entire WWE roster, Edge is easily in my top three, if not my very favourite wrestlers.

    Where the match is held is very much important in this instance. Raven is very much an overrated wrestler from ECW. But he has hardcore prowess that only him and four people (who consequently have no actual wrestling skill, unlike Raven)... um, have. My sentence structure is collapsing.

    Yes. Yes, he is. I've never disputed that.

    That is as cheap an argument as "well, Edge is overmatched here, ergo he wins". If that is indeed the argument you're putting forward.

    Again, the environment is key. On a straight one-on-one match, Christian wouldn't get whooped. Is he in Dragon's league? Hell no. He still wouldn't get whooped. He's just so much better at utilising weapons that it makes all the difference.
     
    #49
  25. Jack-Hammer

    Jack-Hammer YOU WILL RESPECT MY AUTHORITAH!!!!
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    I disagree, I think using environment is a cheap argument. To me, it makes it sound like ability counts for very little. As I stated during the Shawn Michaels and Jerry Lynn bout, greatness is greatness no matter where the match is. Edge and Steamboat have proven their greatness time and time again. While I think Christian is head and shoulders above anything Raven could ever hope and pray to be, he hasn't really shown me he has what it takes to take out Steamboat in his prime.
     
    #50

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