D-Man and IC25's Official NJexus HQ

[Stormtrooper]

You're right. Besides the fact that he has the look, personality, gimmick, in-ring skill, and all other facets to be a world champion, since the audience doesn't scream and throw things at him during his promos, he sucks donkey balls.

He does have all that. But unfortunately JGlass is right that his promos suck. They are the same crap that isn't over "It's my Destiny blah blah blah". And since promo's as important, or even more important then all the other stuff, he's not over yet.

 

[JGlass]

You're right. Besides the fact that he has the look, personality, gimmick, in-ring skill, and all other facets to be a world champion, since the audience doesn't scream and throw things at him during his promos, he sucks donkey balls.

Except he doesn't have the personality, or the gimmick, or the in-ring skill. He does a few nice moves in the ring, but other than that he has proven that he's unable to weave together a story within a match.

Gimmick? What gimmick? The Ted DiBiase/JBL/any other rich heel in the history of wrestling gimmick? Gimmicks only work if the crowd eats it up, and they're having none of this overdone gimmick.

As for his personality... he has one that matches his gimmick, but as I said before, nobody gives a fuck about his gimmick. Until he's able to break away from that and prove that he can carry a segment without resorting to his same old shit, I'm going to say his personality is not exactly stunning.

Wow... are you going to play with your Transformers with the other kiddies now?

NO!

We're playing Power Rangers today, and I get to be the Red Ranger. Suck it, bitch.

 

[D-Man]

Except he doesn't have the personality, or the gimmick, or the in-ring skill. He does a few nice moves in the ring, but other than that he has proven that he's unable to weave together a story within a match.

Oh, so your comeback is to just negate everything I already said? Brilliant.

Gimmick? What gimmick? The Ted DiBiase/JBL/any other rich heel in the history of wrestling gimmick? Gimmicks only work if the crowd eats it up, and they're having none of this overdone gimmick.

That's why the arena explodes with boos once Justin Roberts introduces Ricardo Rodriguez, right? Seriously, I think you purposely shut your ears off whenever something having to do with Del Rio happens just so you could make these empty arguments.

Not to mention that an already-proven-to-work gimmick IS working for him. Plus, they took it to a new level. Besides the fancy car thing, this guy has his own ring announcer that gains just as much heat as he does. That's a double-dose of heel heat.

As for his personality... he has one that matches his gimmick, but as I said before, nobody gives a fuck about his gimmick. Until he's able to break away from that and prove that he can carry a segment without resorting to his same old shit, I'm going to say his personality is not exactly stunning.

How do you figure no one gives a fuck? He's booed during every entrance. Sure, the crowd doesn't go apeshit during his promos but it's because the guy speaks with an accent. I will admit that he needs to work on that. But all other elements of his are in place the way they should be.

Shit... at least I admit that Mysterio is a fantastic wrestler before I talk about how much I hate the guy. You just unload with personal feelings and talk ignorant garbage. You fit in perfect with the IWC's reputation.

NO!

We're playing Power Rangers today, and I get to be the Red Ranger. Suck it, bitch.

Dude, everyone knows the black and white rangers are tha shiznit.

 

[D-Man]

He does have all that. But unfortunately JGlass is right that his promos suck. They are the same crap that isn't over "It's my Destiny blah blah blah". And since promo's as important, or even more important then all the other stuff, he's not over yet.

He hasn't cut a "destiny" promo in like a month. I admit that was getting old, but no more older than "I am the game" or "hustle, loyalty, respect."

Come on, guys. Think of some better arguments.

 

[Барбоса]

Come on, guys. Think of some better arguments.

I don't like him and that is argument enough for me

 

[JGlass]

Oh, so your comeback is to just negate everything I already said? Brilliant.

It's not my fault that almost everything you said was FALSE.

That's why the arena explodes with boos once Justin Roberts introduces Ricardo Rodriguez, right? Seriously, I think you purposely shut your ears off whenever something having to do with Del Rio happens just so you could make these empty arguments.

It's funny, it's like they boo Ricardo Rodriguez more than they actually boo Delberto, because after Ricardo shuts up and Delberto stops honking the horn, it gets much, MUCH quieter.

Not to mention that an already-proven-to-work gimmick IS working for him. Plus, they took it to a new level. Besides the fancy car thing, this guy has his own ring announcer that gains just as much heat as he does. That's a double-dose of heel heat.

That doesn't last more than the 30-45 seconds it takes for him to get to the ring.

How do you figure no one gives a fuck? He's booed during every entrance. Sure, the crowd doesn't go apeshit during his promos but it's because the guy speaks with an accent. I will admit that he needs to work on that. But all other elements of his are in place the way they should be.

They don't care about his matches either, unless he's wrestling a Cena or Orton level superstar. Even last night against CM Punk the crowd was very cool during that match, and they had been hot all night.

Shit... at least I admit that Mysterio is a fantastic wrestler before I talk about how much I hate the guy. You just unload with personal feelings and talk ignorant garbage. You fit in perfect with the IWC's reputation.

Oh please, that's because Mysterio IS a fantastic wrestler, and Delberto is not. Mysterio has put on about a hundred matches where there's something he does that will get you out of your seat or make your jaw drop. What has Del Rio done to do that? He's not flashy, he's not technical, he doesn't tell stories, he literally has nothing in his in-ring arsenal that should lead anyone to say that he's a fantastic wrestler. You like him because he does a couple of things well and makes a loud noise when he hits his enzeguri.

I'm the one that fits the IWC's reputation? I'm not the stubborn one saying "Delberto is a great wrestler because I say so!"

Seriously, show me one time Delberto does something that made you jump out of your seat. Just about every main event wrestler now has had one of those moments, and Delberto is severely lacking one of those moments.

Dude, everyone knows the black and white rangers are tha shiznit.

I am not familiar. My knowledge of Power Rangers begins and ends with the original five. I don't even remember this Green Ranger bullshit.

He hasn't cut a "destiny" promo in like a month. I admit that was getting old, but no more older than "I am the game" or "hustle, loyalty, respect."

I am the game? Hustle, loyalty, respect? Did I wake up in 2007?

Cena and Triple H bring fresh material to the ring every night. The same can't be said about Delberto.

I believe it's you that needs to bring some better arguments to the table... or arguments at all.

 

[D-Man]

It's not my fault that almost everything you said was FALSE.

Once again, brilliant.

It's funny, it's like they boo Ricardo Rodriguez more than they actually boo Delberto, because after Ricardo shuts up and Delberto stops honking the horn, it gets much, MUCH quieter.

There is always an initial crowd reaction to everything in wrestling. Just like when wrestlers cut promos and crowds begin chants, the wrestler stops for 5 seconds, knowing the crowd will wear themselves out shortly. Maybe the announcement of RR takes away some heat from the rest of Del Rio's entrance but it's a part of his entrance, nonetheless. If they boo, it's successful because of the gimmick as a whole.

They don't care about his matches either, unless he's wrestling a Cena or Orton level superstar. Even last night against CM Punk the crowd was very cool during that match, and they had been hot all night.

The crowd was hot for his match against Sin Cara on Friday night and before that he was involved in tag matches with his stable so we can expect mixed reactions. However, when his music hit for his entrance after the rest of the stable came out, the crowd exploded with boos.

I really don't know where you get your false arguments from.

Oh please, that's because Mysterio IS a fantastic wrestler, and Delberto is not. Mysterio has put on about a hundred matches where there's something he does that will get you out of your seat or make your jaw drop.

Obviously this is subjective. I admit that Mysterio's high-flying assault is very exciting to watch. But in all honesty, Del Rio's arsenal is very similar to that of Randy Orton. It's a normal ground game that the majority of wrestlers use. Although his moveset is not as polished as most of the top veteran stars, this is because he's been main-eventing since he debuted. Judging by the experts (obviously not being you), he was put in that position for a reason. It's not my fault that you constantly choose to ignore it.

What has Del Rio done to do that?

Well, let's see...

He's not flashy,

If you want flashy, watch TNA. They're plenty flashy and none of their moves make sense. Not everyone can be a ringmaster like Rey Rey. That guy is a fucking diamond in the rough. Just because your bar is raised so high doesn't mean that everyone under it sucks.

he's not technical,

Are you serious? His moves are so clean and crisp. He has an MMA style in which he always attacks an opponent's arm, knowing that's the body part that needs to be weakened for his finisher. And he's a constant bully in the ring, especially against smaller opponents like Rey and Sin Cara.

he doesn't tell stories,

So his entire feud with Rey didn't tell stories? Oh, that's right... you're going to give Rey all of the credit for that, right? And the trick he pulled on Cena at HIAC, locking him out of the cage and using the pipe? No story, right? Come on, man... do you even know what storytelling is?

he literally has nothing in his in-ring arsenal that should lead anyone to say that he's a fantastic wrestler. You like him because he does a couple of things well and makes a loud noise when he hits his enzeguri.

No, I like him because I've wrestled in a ring before and know what makes good moves into good moves. He's very swift, smooth, and safe with his opponents. He has the right agility, strength, and technical prowess.

I'm the one that fits the IWC's reputation? I'm not the stubborn one saying "Delberto is a great wrestler because I say so!"

You're right. You're the stubborn one saying that "Del Rio is NOT a great wrestler because I say so!"

Seriously, show me one time Delberto does something that made you jump out of your seat. Just about every main event wrestler now has had one of those moments, and Delberto is severely lacking one of those moments.

You mean besides his MITB cash-in victory? Ok, let's ignore that for a minute. Every main event wrestler that you mention has been with the company for more than 14 MONTHS, something Del Rio hasn't done yet. You don't even give him the chance to have one of those "jump out of your seat" moments. But if I had to choose one of them, I'd definitely list his assault on Rey that put him on the shelf for months. That was some brutal shit.

I am not familiar. My knowledge of Power Rangers begins and ends with the original five. I don't even remember this Green Ranger bullshit.

Those guys were past my time. I knew them better when they were called Voltron.

I am the game? Hustle, loyalty, respect? Did I wake up in 2007?

Yeah, because those promos haven't been cut since then.

FUCK... Cena just talked about the "loyalty" on his sleeve last night on Raw!

Cena and Triple H bring fresh material to the ring every night. The same can't be said about Delberto.

FRESH MATERIAL? FROM HHH OR CENA?!? Are you serious?! I will say that every once in a while they have a very good match (i.e. Money in the Bank, Wrestlemania) but for the most part, these guys have the same matches over and over again.

I believe it's you that needs to bring some better arguments to the table... or arguments at all.

Done and Done.

 

[D-Man]

I don't like him and that is argument enough for me

If JGlass would just fess up and admit this, we'd be finished with this conversation.

 

[Барбоса]

If JGlass would just fess up and admit this, we'd be finished with this conversation.

Actually, that was a more weeping statement than I would like. There are things about Del Rio that I do like. His in-ring skill for one - him and Punk could put on a real old school clinic.

However, I find his mic skills to be mediocre at best, poor at worst and the standout part of his gimmick is Ricardo Rodriguez

 

[D-Man]

Actually, that was a more weeping statement than I would like. There are things about Del Rio that I do like. His in-ring skill for one - him and Punk could put on a real old school clinic.

However, I find his mic skills to be mediocre at best, poor at worst and the standout part of his gimmick is Ricardo Rodriguez

See, this is fair. You gave an opinion and stood by your opinion, not passing it off as fact. I'm not saying that it's not right for anyone to dislike Del Rio. But to sit there and say that all aspects of his game are bad and that he factually sucks is such pure dogshit that this room fucking stinks right now.

It's just like a John Cena argument. Uninformed and ignorant posters say that just because he has a Hogan-like persona and moveset that he is a "bad wrestler." While Slyfox conveniently and brilliantly shits on all of them by pointing out the FACTS.

 

[Барбоса]

It's just like a John Cena argument. Uninformed and ignorant posters say that just because he has a Hogan-like persona and moveset that he is a "bad wrestler." While Slyfox conveniently and brilliantly shits on all of them by pointing out the FACTS.

I would argue that more often than not those types of argument hinge far more than presentation than on the actual substance. As you say, so many present their opinion as a fact into a subject that is entirely subjective. They are opening the same can of worms in a wrestling debate that normally plague debates involving religion.

And Sly is indeed a master of preying on such deficiencies.

 

[JGlass]

There is always an initial crowd reaction to everything in wrestling. Just like when wrestlers cut promos and crowds begin chants, the wrestler stops for 5 seconds, knowing the crowd will wear themselves out shortly. Maybe the announcement of RR takes away some heat from the rest of Del Rio's entrance but it's a part of his entrance, nonetheless. If they boo, it's successful because of the gimmick as a whole.

But the best wrestlers manage to milk that reaction longer. Cena has the crowd chanting for his entire match, as does Orton. Delberto gets his heat from Ricardo, and then once that's over he's just that douchey Mexican that nobody takes seriously.

The crowd was hot for his match against Sin Cara on Friday night and before that he was involved in tag matches with his stable so we can expect mixed reactions. However, when his music hit for his entrance after the rest of the stable came out, the crowd exploded with boos.

Usually I have trouble picking out the canned sounds, but last week's Smackdown was full of it, top to bottom, and ESPECIALLY during that segment.

I really don't know where you get your false arguments from.

Common observation.

Obviously this is subjective. I admit that Mysterio's high-flying assault is very exciting to watch. But in all honesty, Del Rio's arsenal is very similar to that of Randy Orton. It's a normal ground game that the majority of wrestlers use. Although his moveset is not as polished as most of the top veteran stars, this is because he's been main-eventing since he debuted. Judging by the experts (obviously not being you), he was put in that position for a reason. It's not my fault that you constantly choose to ignore it.

How is his assault very similar to Randy Orton's at all? Randy Orton is phenomenal at chaining moves together, and Delberto just seems to move from one move to the next without much fluidity.

His moveset hardly has anything to do with how lame his in-ring ability is, it's the fact that he's unable to keep the flow of a match going. He and Ziggler suffer from the same thing, some solid moves, not great at keeping the story going.

If you want flashy, watch TNA. They're plenty flashy and none of their moves make sense. Not everyone can be a ringmaster like Rey Rey. That guy is a fucking diamond in the rough. Just because your bar is raised so high doesn't mean that everyone under it sucks.

Everyone needs a little flash, and that's gospel. Even guys who rely on the same finish over and over again find ways to make it special from time to time. I could be suffering from some short term memory loss, but when has Delberto ever really shocked anyone with an ending? Or at any point in match? He's just the same old stuff, beginning to end.

Are you serious? His moves are so clean and crisp. He has an MMA style in which he always attacks an opponent's arm, knowing that's the body part that needs to be weakened for his finisher. And he's a constant bully in the ring, especially against smaller opponents like Rey and Sin Cara.

Yes! We all know how hard D-Man gets for great arm work!

Working the arm is a great little thing in a match, but it's hardly the basis for a story. And he's not even that creative in the ring with his arm work like Sin Cara, he just uses wringers and arm shots over and over again.

A little ring psychology goes a long way, but an entire match based on the arm? Excuse me while I take a quick nap.

So his entire feud with Rey didn't tell stories? Oh, that's right... you're going to give Rey all of the credit for that, right? And the trick he pulled on Cena at HIAC, locking him out of the cage and using the pipe? No story, right? Come on, man... do you even know what storytelling is?

A David vs. Goliath story? Bravo, he was able to tell the easiest story in wrestling history. All he had to do was be bigger than Rey Mysterio, and then be a jerk after he won.

Fuck dude, KHALI has told that story.

What's the story he told in the ring with Punk? Cena? Anyone? Beuller...?

No, I like him because I've wrestled in a ring before and know what makes good moves into good moves. He's very swift, smooth, and safe with his opponents. He has the right agility, strength, and technical prowess.

I've never taken away from Delberto's physical abilities, which I think are top notch. I agree that he's got a good look, he's quick, he's strong, and he's agile... but he doesn't use those skills to do anything impressive in the ring. He's boring, pure and simple.

You're right. You're the stubborn one saying that "Del Rio is NOT a great wrestler because I say so!"

I've provided like, 18 reasons why I hold this belief. Until this post, you had none.

You mean besides his MITB cash-in victory? Ok, let's ignore that for a minute. Every main event wrestler that you mention has been with the company for more than 14 MONTHS, something Del Rio hasn't done yet. You don't even give him the chance to have one of those "jump out of your seat" moments. But if I had to choose one of them, I'd definitely list his assault on Rey that put him on the shelf for months. That was some brutal shit.

If he's truly as great as you're making him out to be, he would have had a super impressive moment in the period of a year and change. Cena, Orton, Punk, Rey, Daniel Bryan, Kofi Kingston, Sheamus, Evan Bourne, even Mark Henry. All of them have had OMG moments this year. Delberto? Nada.

And his MITB cash-in was predictable. After Nash took out Punk, you knew what was going to happen.

Yeah, because those promos haven't been cut since then.

FUCK... Cena just talked about the "loyalty" on his sleeve last night on Raw!

Oh man, imagine a face talking about a likeable quality like loyalty! It's so unoriginal I might piss myself.

FRESH MATERIAL? FROM HHH OR CENA?!? Are you serious?! I will say that every once in a while they have a very good match (i.e. Money in the Bank, Wrestlemania) but for the most part, these guys have the same matches over and over again.

It's so painfully obvious now that you've attached your wagon to a lame horse, and are refusing to admit that you're not moving as fast as the rest of us in order to not look foolish. What has Delberto proven over the past 14 months? That he can't hold the crowd's interest, and that he's an extremely interchangeable part of the WWE roster. They might as well name him: Obnoxious Foreign Heel, and they can switch him out with Wade Barrett whenever Delberto needs a break. Hell, they're basically the same wrestler: boring on the mic, boring in the ring, and nobody gives a shit about either of them.

 

[D-Man]

But the best wrestlers manage to milk that reaction longer. Cena has the crowd chanting for his entire match, as does Orton. Delberto gets his heat from Ricardo, and then once that's over he's just that douchey Mexican that nobody takes seriously.

You're comparing a 10-year veteran's top babyface reaction to a 14-month heel's reaction. Let's be fair here. Stick to heels against heels and I'll understand your point.

How is his assault very similar to Randy Orton's at all? Randy Orton is phenomenal at chaining moves together, and Delberto just seems to move from one move to the next without much fluidity.

If you're referring to Orton's "go home" sequence (or as WWE '12 is calling the comeback moment) then you're right... Del Rio hasn't developed that yet.

Speaking of, can you please grow up and call the guy by his real name? It's less key strokes and has about 10 years more maturity, thanks.

His moveset hardly has anything to do with how lame his in-ring ability is,

This makes no sense. His in-ring moveset IS his in-ring ability.

it's the fact that he's unable to keep the flow of a match going. He and Ziggler suffer from the same thing, some solid moves, not great at keeping the story going.

I really have no idea of how his in-ring prowess differs from about 95% of the roster. Seriously. What flow are you referring to? I honestly don't think you know what you're talking about. He has a vast skillset with many moves in the arsenal... some very innovative when he focuses on a body part. What kind of flow is needed? Does he need to do moves on his toes that are more like ballet? I just don't get it.

Everyone needs a little flash, and that's gospel. Even guys who rely on the same finish over and over again find ways to make it special from time to time. I could be suffering from some short term memory loss, but when has Delberto ever really shocked anyone with an ending? Or at any point in match? He's just the same old stuff, beginning to end.

Yeah, because it's really simple to catch Evan Bourne's shooting star press and immediately turn it into an armbar. Ugh...

Listen, if you really NEED something like that to happen before he "impresses" you then I really can't provide a comeback.

Yes! We all know how hard D-Man gets for great arm work!

LULZ... (ok, I laughed a little)

Working the arm is a great little thing in a match, but it's hardly the basis for a story. And he's not even that creative in the ring with his arm work like Sin Cara, he just uses wringers and arm shots over and over again.

This brings me back to something I said earlier... I really don't think you know what storytelling is. Working an arm is an old school example of in-ring storytelling, brosef.

A little ring psychology goes a long way, but an entire match based on the arm? Excuse me while I take a quick nap.

God forbid you ever watched an Arn Anderson match. If what you say is true, you'd be taking a quick nap every time one of the greatest in-ring technicians of all time had a match. That is all the Minnesota wrecking crew used to do in matches... and the Four Horsemen (Blanchard/Arnderson) which was work body parts.

Now I'm convinced... you don't know what storytelling is.

A David vs. Goliath story? Bravo, he was able to tell the easiest story in wrestling history. All he had to do was be bigger than Rey Mysterio, and then be a jerk after he won.

Fuck bro... EVERY ONE of Rey's matches is a David vs Goliath story. And that's Del Rio's fault? I'm talking about the part where he injured him post-match and constantly took jabs at his Mexican heritage.

What's the story he told in the ring with Punk? Cena? Anyone? Beuller...?

First off, what's the story Punk told with him?? As for Cena, at Hell in a Cell, locking Cena out of the cage and using a pipe for victory told enough story for me.

I've never taken away from Delberto's physical abilities, which I think are top notch. I agree that he's got a good look, he's quick, he's strong, and he's agile... but he doesn't use those skills to do anything impressive in the ring. He's boring, pure and simple.

Ok, so you don't like the way he puts a match together but he has all of the other tools that a champion should have. If this were gospel, the entire IWC would be right about John Cena. After all, Cena has the "top notch physical abilities, a good look, he's quick, he's strong, he's agile"... yet the IWC picks him apart because they don't like the way he puts matches together... but YOU praise him, right?

You contradict yourself over and over again and prove my hypothesis; you have a personal dislike for Del Rio and try to make us believe that just because you "dislike" him, that automatically means that he sucks as a professional wrestler in smarky categories (i.e. storytelling) that you obviously don't know anything about. It's so jaded, man.

Just admit you hate him and call it a day instead of saying garbage like "I hate him because his moves aren't crisp and he can't storytell." BULLSHIT. You just don't like the guy.

If he's truly as great as you're making him out to be, he would have had a super impressive moment in the period of a year and change. Cena, Orton, Punk, Rey, Daniel Bryan, Kofi Kingston, Sheamus, Evan Bourne, even Mark Henry. All of them have had OMG moments this year. Delberto? Nada.

What "super impressive" moment? Besides winning Money in the Bank? Shit, it took Randy Orton over a year before he got into Evolution. Even then, he rode HHH and Ric Flair's coattails when it came to "doing impressive things".

Unless you're referring to something similar to turning a shooting star press into an RKO, like Randy did. If that's what you mean then you base TOO MUCH on in-ring performances. It takes more than a shocking wrestling move to become a force in pro-wrestling. Just ask John Morrison.

And his MITB cash-in was predictable. After Nash took out Punk, you knew what was going to happen.

Actually, I didn't. So you're a better man than I. Chalk yourself up to the list of dozens of others who are always able to predict a storyline. Kudos.

Oh man, imagine a face talking about a likeable quality like loyalty! It's so unoriginal I might piss myself.

Don't change the point. You said Del Rio's "destiny" promos were redundant. I proved that every main event wrestler has a redundant promo style. And now you're trying to turn it into something else. I'm not saying that Cena's use of "loyalty" doesn't fit him. I'm saying that it's as redundant as how Del Rio's use of "destiny" which fits him.

It's so painfully obvious now that you've attached your wagon to a lame horse, and are refusing to admit that you're not moving as fast as the rest of us in order to not look foolish. What has Delberto proven over the past 14 months? That he can't hold the crowd's interest, and that he's an extremely interchangeable part of the WWE roster.

It's all subjective. He impresses me and doesn't impress all of you.

They might as well name him: Obnoxious Foreign Heel, and they can switch him out with Wade Barrett whenever Delberto needs a break. Hell, they're basically the same wrestler: boring on the mic, boring in the ring, and nobody gives a shit about either of them.

All subjective comments. "This guy is boring so he sucks." How can any of this be taken as fact? You back up your load of bullshit with more bullshit. I back mine up with facts. I don't say "this guy is lame, lame, lame, lame, lame and lame." I say "X wrestler did X at this pay per view which resulted in X." That's called facts. Stop passing off your opinions as facts and then we can debate more.

 

[JGlass]

You're comparing a 10-year veteran's top babyface reaction to a 14-month heel's reaction. Let's be fair here. Stick to heels against heels and I'll understand your point.

Miz gets a better reaction... R-Truth gets a better reaction... Christian, Cody Rhodes, and Ricardo Rodriguez all get better reactions than Delberto.

If you're referring to Orton's "go home" sequence (or as WWE '12 is calling the comeback moment) then you're right... Del Rio hasn't developed that yet.

Do heels generally use go home sequences? I guess Christian kind of does, but it's not as definable as Cena's or Orton's.

And I'm not talking about the go home sequence, I'm talking in general. It's fun to see Orton hit his opponents with knee thrusts, throw them through the ropes, but catch them in time and hit the rope hung DDT. He just gets it in the ring. I don't think Delberto has yet.

Speaking of, can you please grow up and call the guy by his real name? It's less key strokes and has about 10 years more maturity, thanks.

Believe it or not, I'm not calling him Delberto to annoy you, I'm calling him Delberto because it gives me a warm fuzzy feeling inside. If I get a pet dog I may name him that. Or maybe Thor... or if it's a girl, Emily, because I work with this girl named Emily and she's a huge bitch and a bit of a ****, but I digress.

This makes no sense. His in-ring moveset IS his in-ring ability.

There's SO much more that constitutes in ring ability than moveset. If that was the case, Cena would be a terrible wrestler, which he clearly is not. Cena knows how to set the pace of a match, when to hit certain moves and when to go to striking. Delberto doesn't have that in-ring sensibility that Cena has. You often see him trying to throw in a grapple when his opponent is in better position for striking, or trying to change the pace of the match when it's not called for it.

I don't think these are uncorrectable problems either, I just think that right now he doesn't have that ability.

I really have no idea of how his in-ring prowess differs from about 95% of the roster. Seriously. What flow are you referring to? I honestly don't think you know what you're talking about. He has a vast skillset with many moves in the arsenal... some very innovative when he focuses on a body part. What kind of flow is needed? Does he need to do moves on his toes that are more like ballet? I just don't get it.

Look at a CM Punk match and compare it to a Dolph Ziggler match. CM Punk is always moving when he's on offense, and he's always selling when he's on the other end of a beating. Dolph Ziggler, who I actually think is fairly talented, almost always has moments where he lets his opponent lie around while he thinks about what to do next. Now Delberto isn't quite at Ziggler's level, but he's nowhere near as smooth as Cena or Orton or Punk or Triple H.

Yeah, because it's really simple to catch Evan Bourne's shooting star press and immediately turn it into an armbar. Ugh...

Listen, if you really NEED something like that to happen before he "impresses" you then I really can't provide a comeback.

Oh, he's impressed me as an athlete, but not as a professional wrestler. I don't doubt that he has the tools to one day become a much better wrestler, but until then, I don't see anything to freak out about. I feel the same way about Tyson Kidd.

LULZ... (ok, I laughed a little)

It works on many levels.

This brings me back to something I said earlier... I really don't think you know what storytelling is. Working an arm is an old school example of in-ring storytelling, brosef.

How is old school wrestling telling a story? It's an element of story telling, sure, but it's not something to build a match around.

God forbid you ever watched an Arn Anderson match. If what you say is true, you'd be taking a quick nap every time one of the greatest in-ring technicians of all time had a match. That is all the Minnesota wrecking crew used to do in matches... and the Four Horsemen (Blanchard/Arnderson) which was work body parts.

Different time period man, and you know it. Hulk Hogan would look like a joker if he debuted for the first time tomorrow, and all the charisma in the world wouldn't save him from the wrath of the critics.

Now I'm convinced... you don't know what storytelling is.

Because I don't find working a limb as appealing as you? You clearly do know I know what story telling is too, because you continue to address me under the assumption I know that story telling is.

Cheap jab deflect. Nice try Floyd.

Fuck bro... EVERY ONE of Rey's matches is a David vs Goliath story. And that's Del Rio's fault? I'm talking about the part where he injured him post-match and constantly took jabs at his Mexican heritage.

Jericho vs. Rey wasn't a David vs. Goliath, and it was a feud of the year candidate. It was the story of an angry, vein mother fucker that wanted to unmask a fan favorite to bring him down to his level. As such, in every match they had together Jericho would find a way to try to get at Rey's mask, only to be foiled by the face. Hell, he did extended story telling through their entire feud and built up counters to Mysterio's moves. He had a counter for the 619 that he used on multiple occasions, he eventually learned a counter to one of Mysterio's crazy huricanrana moves, and he built up his arsenal throughout the feud.

Delberto hasn't been able to do that in match story telling like Jericho or Mysterio has. He's given some interesting storylines and tactics, but inside the ring he has trouble getting past the psychology aspect of it. Don't get me wrong, psychology is important and not every wrestler has it, but you need more than just great ring psychology to put on great matches and feuds.

First off, what's the story Punk told with him?? As for Cena, at Hell in a Cell, locking Cena out of the cage and using a pipe for victory told enough story for me.

So a preplanned spot that almost definitely wasn't his idea is why you think Delberto knows how to tell a story?

Ok, so you don't like the way he puts a match together but he has all of the other tools that a champion should have. If this were gospel, the entire IWC would be right about John Cena. After all, Cena has the "top notch physical abilities, a good look, he's quick, he's strong, he's agile"... yet the IWC picks him apart because they don't like the way he puts matches together... but YOU praise him, right?

We're not talking about the IWC in general, we're talking about you and I. What anyone else thinks about Cena or Delberto is irrelevant.

You contradict yourself over and over again and prove my hypothesis; you have a personal dislike for Del Rio and try to make us believe that just because you "dislike" him, that automatically means that he sucks as a professional wrestler in smarky categories (i.e. storytelling) that you obviously don't know anything about. It's so jaded, man.

What, do you think he killed my dog or something? Because he didn't, cancer did. I am looking into the details behind the death of Cadburry, and Delberto is a lead suspect in that case...

In case you were wondering, he's a lead suspect because Cadburry died in his sleep, a state that Delberto has left many of those he's come in contact with in.

Just admit you hate him and call it a day instead of saying garbage like "I hate him because his moves aren't crisp and he can't storytell." BULLSHIT. You just don't like the guy.

I don't like him as a wrestler because his stuff is trash, plain and simple. Can he improve? Sure, plenty of superstars have won me over in the past, and I'd say he has a fair shot at being one of them, but until then, I'll keep on saying he's shit.

What "super impressive" moment? Besides winning Money in the Bank? Shit, it took Randy Orton over a year before he got into Evolution. Even then, he rode HHH and Ric Flair's coattails when it came to "doing impressive things".

Unless you're referring to something similar to turning a shooting star press into an RKO, like Randy did. If that's what you mean then you base TOO MUCH on in-ring performances. It takes more than a shocking wrestling move to become a force in pro-wrestling. Just ask John Morrison.

Actually, now that you mention it, JoMo had one too!

It's not all I'm basing this on, I'm just saying that his lack of phenomenal in ring moments hurts him. Hell, even his MiTB win was tainted with a botch.

Actually, I didn't. So you're a better man than I. Chalk yourself up to the list of dozens of others who are always able to predict a storyline. Kudos.

Thank you. Thankyouverymuch.

Don't change the point. You said Del Rio's "destiny" promos were redundant. I proved that every main event wrestler has a redundant promo style. And now you're trying to turn it into something else. I'm not saying that Cena's use of "loyalty" doesn't fit him. I'm saying that it's as redundant as how Del Rio's use of "destiny" which fits him.

Fair enough point. But for that matter, loyalty works for Cena, violent revenge works for Orton, and old school toughness works for Triple H. The destiny thing ain't cutting it for Delberto.

It's all subjective. He impresses me and doesn't impress all of you.

Well duh! Just about everything on this forum is subjective. It just helps that I'm in the vocal majority of people who don't care for Delberto.

All subjective comments. "This guy is boring so he sucks." How can any of this be taken as fact? You back up your load of bullshit with more bullshit. I back mine up with facts. I don't say "this guy is lame, lame, lame, lame, lame and lame." I say "X wrestler did X at this pay per view which resulted in X." That's called facts. Stop passing off your opinions as facts and then we can debate more.

Your facts are just as bullshit as my facts are. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, and while you see beautiful wrestling, I see shit. Neither of us are alone, obviously, but we each have valid reasons for liking and disliking the guy in our eyes. Saying something happened at a PPV isn't exactly proving anything either. Lest we forget wrestling is scripted, and just about all your examples are of things Delberto did after a match or during a major spot. At least I discussed in ring moments.

We're never going to agree on this, but I can go on and on about it for a while. I'd much rather talk about something more interesting than Delberto, because love him or hate him, it looks like he will be part of WWE television for a good long time.

What are your thoughts on Cody Rhodes? Barbosa brought up that he though Delberto and Punk could have a great old school match, but the match I'd love to see is Cody Rhodes vs. CM Punk. If CM Punk doesn't mock Cody's gimmick and takes it seriously, it could be an awesome feud with some great matches.

 

[FunKay the Inevitable]

Joey Styles once made an excellent point on the Eddie Guerrero memorial edition of RAW; "How often do you see Shawn Michaels as the larger man in a match?" - Shawn Michaels vs. Rey Mysterio

 

[Hollywood Naitch]

If WWE are calling wrestlers by their actual weights now, not the ones they claim to be...what would HBK have been in the later days of his career? Surely under 200lbs?

 

[D-Man]

And I'm not talking about the go home sequence, I'm talking in general. It's fun to see Orton hit his opponents with knee thrusts, throw them through the ropes, but catch them in time and hit the rope hung DDT. He just gets it in the ring. I don't think Delberto has yet.

I should have been more specific... along with go-home sequences I meant pre-finishers, as well. Del Rio has the back-cracker, but that's it. So you're right and I guess it's a work in progress for him.

Believe it or not, I'm not calling him Delberto to annoy you, I'm calling him Delberto because it gives me a warm fuzzy feeling inside. If I get a pet dog I may name him that. Or maybe Thor... or if it's a girl, Emily, because I work with this girl named Emily and she's a huge bitch and a bit of a ****, but I digress.

How is old school wrestling telling a story? It's an element of story telling, sure, but it's not something to build a match around.

Different time period man, and you know it. Hulk Hogan would look like a joker if he debuted for the first time tomorrow, and all the charisma in the world wouldn't save him from the wrath of the critics.

Because I don't find working a limb as appealing as you?

I just want to address this really quick. You do know that the old school guys like Steamboat, Anderson, and Milenko are still putting matches together for these guys, right? So to say their style is outdated is kind of a contradiction. The same guys are making the matches with modern wrestlers, keeping the psychology and flow of a match that was used back in the territorial days. It's not about my appeal... it's about what experts use to put together good matches.

Delberto hasn't been able to do that in match story telling like Jericho or Mysterio has. He's given some interesting storylines and tactics, but inside the ring he has trouble getting past the psychology aspect of it. Don't get me wrong, psychology is important and not every wrestler has it, but you need more than just great ring psychology to put on great matches and feuds.

Ok, I understand your point now.

We're not talking about the IWC in general, we're talking about you and I. What anyone else thinks about Cena or Delberto is irrelevant.

Well, we kinda are the IWC, aren't we?

What, do you think he killed my dog or something? Because he didn't, cancer did. I am looking into the details behind the death of Cadburry, and Delberto is a lead suspect in that case...

In case you were wondering, he's a lead suspect because Cadburry died in his sleep, a state that Delberto has left many of those he's come in contact with in.

This is fucking hilarious. Seriously. It made my morning.

Fair enough point. But for that matter, loyalty works for Cena, violent revenge works for Orton, and old school toughness works for Triple H. The destiny thing ain't cutting it for Delberto.

Well, not anymore since he achieved his destiny. Just sayin'.

What are your thoughts on Cody Rhodes? Barbosa brought up that he though Delberto and Punk could have a great old school match, but the match I'd love to see is Cody Rhodes vs. CM Punk. If CM Punk doesn't mock Cody's gimmick and takes it seriously, it could be an awesome feud with some great matches.

Let's put it this way: When Cody attacked Orton on Monday and we all realized that he was going to be in a high-profile feud on a main-event level with another generational superstar, I almost wet myself in happiness.

I would love to see Cody in a match with someone like Booker T, actually. I know that' a strange choice but both of these guys have a way of really telling a story in the ring with their mannerisms and faces. I honestly feel that a Cody/Booker or a Cody/Jericho match would suit him best. While I feel that he's good in the ring, I still feel that he's not on the level of CM Punk yet. I know he'll get there someday but he needs to build up to it.

 

[D-Man]

If WWE are calling wrestlers by their actual weights now, not the ones they claim to be...what would HBK have been in the later days of his career? Surely under 200lbs?

He still looked like he broke 200lbs to me. I always try to keep in mind that wrestlers are always much bigger in person than they look on TV, since they're constantly standing next to other huge guys.

 

[D-Man]

Joey Styles once made an excellent point on the Eddie Guerrero memorial edition of RAW; "How often do you see Shawn Michaels as the larger man in a match?" - Shawn Michaels vs. Rey Mysterio

I remember that and I loved it. He was SO TRUE with that comment and I remember it well.

 

[FunKay the Inevitable]

Shanw looked about the same weight as Kurt Angle...whatever that really means.

 

[D-Man]

Kurt isn't a tiny guy. He wrestled heavyweight in the Olympics and was about 240lb at one time.

 

[FunKay the Inevitable]

Kurt isn't a tiny guy. He wrestled heavyweight in the Olympics and was about 240lb at one time.

I'm talking 2003/prime Kurt here.

 

[The Crock]

What was he then, like 220?

 

[FunKay the Inevitable]

What was he then, like 220?

230 (or so) billed, 220 (billed) around the time of surgery, though I suspect it was really around 215.

 

[The Crock]

Yeah, I'd assume it was somewhere around there. He's not actually very big, he's like 5'10".