Championship Region, Fifth Round: (1) Ric Flair vs. (2) The Rock

[klunderbunker]

This is a fifth round match in the Championship Region. It is a standard one on one match, held at the Super Dome in New Orleans, Louisiana. One week has passed since the third round, so some injuries or fatigue may be a factor.

NOTE ABOUT THE FINAL ROUNDS: The remaining three rounds are a one night only tournament in the style of King of the Ring. All damage from this round carries over to the next round and is based on the margin of victory. If someone wins a close match, they took a severe beating but survived. If someone wins a blowout, they didn't suffer as much damage.

#1. Ric Flair

Vs.

#2. The Rock

​

Polls will be open for six days following a one day period for discussion. Voting will be based on who you feel is the greater of the two competitors. Post your reasons for why your pick should win below. Remember that this is non-spam and the most votes in the poll win. Any ties will be broken by the amount of posts of support for each candidate, with one vote per poster.

Also remember that this is a non-spam forum. If you post a response without giving a reason for your selection, it will be penalized for spam and deleted.

 

[GI Cake]

This is honestly the toughest of the 4 matches to vote on, because Flair and Rock are both legends of the business. Rock of course being far more recent memory than Flair to young people like me. I'm going abstain from voting and wait till I see an argument for Flair or Rock.

 

[Dmbfantomas]

Rocky is an exceptionally better draw than Naitch, way more athletic, and is undoubtably more known to the general public than Flair.

Flair might be better in the ring (which is a matter of preference when it comes down to two performers as gifted as this), but Rock's physical attributes far outweigh Flair's, save for possibly endurance.

Flair couldn't outdraw Hogan. You can make a serious argument that Rock got bigger than Austin.

Even though I prefer watching Flair matches, I gotta go Rock here.

 

[Bythedockofthebay]

I'm going Flair here not that I like either choice. The truth is that Rock just went through hell in a cell with Andre in his prime. Took the beating of a lifetime imo, and I don't think he would be able to do much in this situation. The rock wouldn't be able to recover from the beating and logically I think flair picks up another one of his legendary half ass wins. The second rate champion continues on his journey, even if it's a joke.

 

[nightmare]

Both men were just in some brutal matches that would no doubt show wear. So that really cant be taken anything but even, really.


So a case honestly can be for both men to advance here & am am torn. I think I will have to wait a bit before I can decide. This is a big one.

 

[Dragon Chief]

I'm voting for The Rock, as I don't see Ric Flair ever getting booked to go over him. Other than that I just like Rocky better than Flair, so I guess personal preference is another reason I will end up voting for him.

 

[FitFinlay4Life]

Things that are underestimated by the IWC - Ric Flair's drawing ability. Flair wasn't backed by a promotional back out like Hogan. He drew people to arenas and to purchase PPVs by that oldest of methods - reputation and word of mouth. Back when PWI was still a respected magazine (pre death of kayfabe), the NWA Champion was always regarded as the top guy because he was all go AND show.

Things overrated by the IWC - the Rock's drawing ability. Whereas Flair was THE draw in the NWA, Rock was a cog in a massive boom period in wrestling. The Monday Night Wars, 'Attitude', DX, SCSA, Mr McMahon, 'the Invasion' etc - Rock was a major beneficiary of all of this and credit to him for exploiting this into becoming a major action/ kiddies movie superstar.

Basically, Flair sold out arenas despite the WWF and Hulkamania and Rocky helped sell out arenas because of being one of the right people in the right place at the right time.


As such, I'd pick the guy renowned for his stamina (who garnered 60.24% against a similarly sized competitor in 3 stages of hell) over a guy more renowned for his catchphrases (who garnered 54.08% against an unbeatable giant in HiaC).

 

[Tastycles]

For reasons that I have explained at length elsewhere, Ric Flair really isn't the greatest of all time. The Rock probably isn't either, but I think that there's an argument that he was the draw when WWF finally eliminated all of its competition, and that's not to be scoffed at. Rock is a much more noteworthy name, and unlike Flair has proven that he can move the needle with casual fans, so he gets my vote.

 

[FitFinlay4Life]

Mick Foley, Triple H, the Undertaker, Kurt Angle, the entire McMahon clan, SCSA - all major players in that timespan. Flair was selling out arenas against Ricky Morton, Ronnie Garvin and Magnum TA (a guy modelled on Tom Selleck!).

Comparing being one of the top guys in a boom period in his company against the guy who didn't receive 'Rock N Wrestling' exposure and still managed to draw consistently large crowds to good sized arenas, is comparing apples and oranges.

 

[Bythedockofthebay]

Mick Foley, Triple H, the Undertaker, Kurt Angle, the entire McMahon clan, SCSA - all major players in that timespan. Flair was selling out arenas against Ricky Morton, Ronnie Garvin and Magnum TA (a guy modelled on Tom Selleck!).

Comparing being one of the top guys in a boom period in his company against the guy who didn't receive 'Rock N Wrestling' exposure and still managed to draw consistently large crowds to good sized arenas, is comparing apples and oranges.

You right, comparing JCP which had to sell to turner because they couldn't draw on a national level, to the WWF, would could is like comparing apples to oranges. WWF had better draws and success, JCP didn't draw on a national level and failed.

 

[FitFinlay4Life]

You right, comparing JCP which had to sell to turner because they couldn't draw on a national level, to the WWF, would could is like comparing apples to oranges. WWF had better draws and success, JCP didn't draw on a national level and failed.

Jim Crockett overstretched himself financially trying to create an entity as big as the WWF AND ran into the added difficulty of trying to get his PPVs on air due to Vince McMahon's dirty tricks and treats to PPV carriers. Absolutely nothing to do with Flair's ability to draw fans into arenas.

Hogan got to play off the guys Vince cherry picked from the territories and Flair was still revered with having to work with what was left.

 

[Bythedockofthebay]

Jim Crockett overstretched himself financially trying to create an entity as big as the WWF AND ran into the added difficulty of trying to get his PPVs on air due to Vince McMahon's dirty tricks and treats to PPV carriers. Absolutely nothing to do with Flair's ability to draw fans into arenas.

Hogan got to play off the guys Vince cherry picked from the territories and Flair was still revered with having to work with what was left.

Flat ass truth no spin, if NWA could've drawn on a national level with Flair as champion JCP wouldn't have gone under. The fact is that everyone (even on the NWA dvd) said leaving the South was the biggest mistake they made. And why? Because Flair was a draw in the south, not nation wide. He never was. He went to WWE and wasn't a draw, he came back to WCW and the only time he succeeded was after Hall, Nash, Savage, and Hogan were around. When flair was around any draws, he was second fiddle because the only time his companies were successful and winning the war was when flair was either gone, or in a feud with someone like Konnan.

 

[Poop Master Flex]

Flair maybe a big draw but The Rock cripples him in the draw department, it's not even REMOTELY close, it's silly to think it IS remotely close, as a draw Flair is Rocks bitch.

We have 2 masters on the mic and we have 2 guys that are very solid in the ring. Both guys can get dirty and will pull out the stops to win (Flair has the edge here), both are great wrestlers (once again Flair has the edge) but the long and short of it is Flair ISN'T the name The Rock is, he's just not as big of a star and The Rock is on a level that only 2 other guys have reached (Hogan and Austin), it's that level that you've become bigger than the business and although was as big deal he wasn't bigger than wrestling at any point, I just can't justify voting for Flair because he's Ric Flair. Some of the previous matches I could justify Flair winning even though I voted for the other guy the last few rounds but I can't justify him beating The Rock here.

I understand that Flair is often cited as the greatest of all time but he isn't the biggest of all time, he isn't the most popular of all time, he isn't the biggest money maker of all time (which IMO is the true judge of who is the greatest), you can make a case though that Rock is all those things.

Vote Rock, I know a lot of you love Flair but he's just not on Rock's level when it comes to the things that matter most in wrestling, money.

 

[FitFinlay4Life]

Flat ass truth no spin, if NWA could've drawn on a national level with Flair as champion JCP wouldn't have gone under. The fact is that everyone (even on the NWA dvd) said leaving the South was the biggest mistake they made. And why? Because Flair was a draw in the south, not nation wide. He never was. He went to WWE and wasn't a draw, he came back to WCW and the only time he succeeded was after Hall, Nash, Savage, and Hogan were around. When flair was around any draws, he was second fiddle because the only time his companies were successful and winning the war was when flair was either gone, or in a feud with someone like Konnan.

Flat ass truth? Vince didn't block JCP? The WWF could succeed in this time in the south? The flat out truth is you are blaming Flair for Jim Crockett's mistakes (including gambling on the NE events that alienated the southern fans) and then you're trying to mask this by throwing in bloody Konnan? Arena numbers prove how people wanted to see Flair - that's the flat out truth! McMahon believed Flair such a big draw that he ran arena shows against Hogan that much and to such success, he didn't think there would be any point in running a PPV bout because he believed so much of the population had seen the top two wrestlers of the decade.

AND you're going to count when he was 47+ as a period he should be drawing? Those are the types of arguments that can do your own choice damage!

 

[Bythedockofthebay]

Flat ass truth? Vince didn't block JCP? The WWF could succeed in this time in the south? The flat out truth is you are blaming Flair for Jim Crockett's mistakes (including gambling on the NE events that alienated the southern fans) and then you're trying to mask this by throwing in bloody Konnan? Arena numbers prove how people wanted to see Flair - that's the flat out truth! McMahon believed Flair such a big draw that he ran arena shows against Hogan that much and to such success, he didn't think there would be any point in running a PPV bout because he believed so much of the population had seen the top two wrestlers of the decade.

AND you're going to count when he was 47+ as a period he should be drawing? Those are the types of arguments that can do your own choice damage!

So when was flair close to the draw Rock was? Or Hogan, or Austin, when was he the top guy in wrestling? Please tell me when these golden years of Flair drawing were? Oh yeah they didn't exist. Flair was secondary at best, when he first won the NWA title it was the top belt and best company in the world.WWF took over during flairs golden years. His dominate years!!!! When JCP tried the same move as vince, they failed, why? Because Flair and NWA couldn't draw nationally. It's just a fact. And your point about Flair being forty-seven there is a damn good point. The only time he could be at the top was when Hogan and others carried the torch. Flair has years in the WCW and NWA. Know what they amounted to? JCP's gone, WCW was only successful after Hogan and the NWO had the reigns and Flair was an after thought.

 

[It's...Baylariat!]

So we're now giving credit to The Rock for putting WCW under? At best, Austin and Rock combined forces for this to happen.

Now, Rock is a box office juggernaut and when he wrestled, it sold out arenas worldwide. The same goes for Flair - minus the box office juggernaut.

It's a shame people in here try to say Flair was second rate and didn't do much to move the needle in pro wrestling. Fact is, Flair is highly regarded as an all-time great because... he was an all-time great. Personal preference aside, his resume speaks for itself. He carried the ball for the NWA, the only worldwide recognized wrestling title at that time, and drew big houses with much lesser names as his opponents.

It's easy for Rock and Austin or Rock and HHH or even Rock and Jericho to sell out houses. Flair did that with the likes of Hawk, Ricky Morton, Magnum TA, and Bobby Eaton. And he did that on a regular basis.

I figured it would be Rock by a huge margin because the majority of this forum doesn't remember wrestling in past 1998. That's all well and good, but me being a fan of the older generation of wrestling prefers the Stylin' and Proflin' of Ric Flair over The People's Champion.

And an even bigger testament to Flair - I would almost guarantee you that if Rock were asked who would win in a match in their primes, he'd choose Flair.

 

[Hollywood Naitch]

Man, these rounds of the tournament are always incredibly difficult to pick a side.

I'm not one of these people who regards Flair as "second class" because he was in the NWA, not WWF. The fact is that Flair was a huge draw, without the the level of publicity that guys like Hulk Hogan had in the WWF, when people wanted to watch more realistic wrestling, they watched the NWA and Flair was putting on hour-long clinics every night.

However, I am still going to vote for The Rock in this. I regard both of them as 2 of the all-time greats on the mic, with some of the most memorable lines in wrestling history. Both were hugely popular draws in their times (taking into consideration the backing each promotion had the time), and their resumes speak for themselves. They've both beaten and lost to the best of their respective eras, and are both rightly regarded as 2 of the best of all time. Plus, both are coming out of closely fought wars to be in this championship round.

BUT...I could see this ending with Rocky making it to the ropes during a Figure Four Leg Lock, forcing Flair to break the hold. Slick Ric complains to the referee, turning his back on The Rock, and turns round into a Rock Bottom which gets the People's Champion the 3 count.

Winner: The Rock

 

[FitFinlay4Life]

Saddened that Flair, who made his name carrying a promotion under less than stellar conditions, is getting annihilated by Dwayne Johnson.

Rock rode the coattails of the Monday Night Wars and Steve Austin rivalries with Hart, Michaels and VKM. He was put over by said Austin and 'carried' the company for less than a year (apparently with no assistance from Foley, Hunter, Angle etc from the way some people are getting on here). Then he appeared in a movie, decided he was too big for wrestling, tried to distance himself from the sport he (and his family) owed his fame too, came back when his films were slumping and has pretty much moved on again when said return to WWe did give his career a massive boost.

Barring a miracle, three of the final four wrestlers in this tournament have had major WWe bouts in the last 18months... greatest wrestler of all time tournament, huh? Throw in CM Punk (wonder what happened to him after his massive tear last year?) and it's more like the greatest wrestler of 2013!

 

[Awesome_Miz]

Shouldn't surprise anyone that Dwayne over there is winning. Why? Cause he is a wrestling legend, but that's just it a wrestling legend. While Ric is not a wrestling legend, but rather a wrestling god. Call him overrated if you may, but there is no denying the same about Rock. Rock is only a household name cause of his movie work and then some people remember him as a wrestler as well. Ric Flair might not be a household name in the level of Dwayne, but he is a household name to those wrestling fans. How? Simple, just like how Dwayne lived on by his catchphrases, so did Flair. The difference between both of their catchphrases is that Flair only needed one to go by and live on by, unlike Dwayne whole needed a whole book for his. While yes, we will all remember his catchphrases every time he shows, Ric's catchphrase we will remember during and after his life. How is that possible? It's called the knife edge chop which no matter how boring or unentertaining the wrestler is, the people will always say one thing during that chop. And that's, "WOOOOOOO!!!". That catchphrase only beats Rock's everything and anything in his career. Ric Flair will live on during and after his time while Dwayne....... not so much.

So, WOO on and vote Naitch.

 

[HBsam31]

I have a ton of respect for Ric Flair, and honestly this was the hardest match for me to pick in this whole tournament. Both men went through wars in the last round, and I just think The Rock would bounce back faster, and I cannot see The Rock tapping to the figure four. I think The Rock takes a ton of punishment in this match, but comes through it with a Rock Bottom for the win.

 

[X]

Like everyone else I struggled on this one for awhile, but at the end of the day I simply couldn't pretend that Flair was as big of a star or as important to the wrestling business as The Rock has been. I mean, that sounds sacrilegious to say but it's honestly true. As important as Flair was for Southern wrestling, The Rock was able to step right in when Austin was hurt during the peak of the business's popularity effortlessly and continue the WWF's winning streak of high ratings, sold out shows, and big PPV buyrates. Combined with his work during his return it's hard to argue that the man continues to be seen as one of the greatest wrestlers to ever live by casual and hardcore fans alike. Flair may just have more respect because of his old school nature and the infancy that the business really was at nationally when he was at his prime, but that nostalgia is a bit of a blinding factor. Certainly if we're comparing resumes and match quality as workers, it's a split even contest and you could even argue Flair has the upper hand there, but it would be closer than Flair fanatics would like to admit. Same could be seen for microphone skills. But it's that bottom dollar that makes me vote for The Rock here, he simply meant more nationally than Flair ever did, despite the Naitch's greatness. I could certainly see the argument for either side though.

 

[JJYanks121]

Was it suggested that the only reason Rock drew was because he existed during a wrestling boom? This as opposed to Flair who existed during THE wrestling boom of the mid 80's?

Yes, wrestling became very popular in the late 90's, but it was THE thing in the 80's and the ratings the WWF put up in that time make the 90's look laughable. At that time, wrestling was so in that Hulk Hogan's name was on par with any athlete or celebrity. Ric Flair? Not at all.

If Flair was truly a draw, he would have killed it during this time but he didn't. He had a "cool" faction and everything and he didn't come close to drawing.

Please don't use the "Flair wasn't part of a wrestling boom" argument because it makes you sound silly. He was around during the time wrestling was the biggest and he didn't draw.

Rock wins this as Flair finally exits stage left.

And then flops on the stage because, why not?

 

[FitFinlay4Life]

Was it suggested that the only reason Rock drew was because he existed during a wrestling boom? This as opposed to Flair who existed during THE wrestling boom of the mid 80's?

Yes, wrestling became very popular in the late 90's, but it was THE thing in the 80's and the ratings the WWF put up in that time make the 90's look laughable. At that time, wrestling was so in that Hulk Hogan's name was on par with any athlete or celebrity. Ric Flair? Not at all.

If Flair was truly a draw, he would have killed it during this time but he didn't. He had a "cool" faction and everything and he didn't come close to drawing.

Please don't use the "Flair wasn't part of a wrestling boom" argument because it makes you sound silly. He was around during the time wrestling was the biggest and he didn't draw.

Rock wins this as Flair finally exits stage left.

And then flops on the stage because, why not?

"Silly"? The WWF, otherwise explain all the dead territories, "boomed" in the mid80's and made sure no-one else could using every dirty trick in the books (things that Monopolies & Mergers would take a very dim view off today) and, despite this they still couldn't crack the south or stop Flair putting bums in seats!

 

[FitFinlay4Life]

Like everyone else I struggled on this one for awhile, but at the end of the day I simply couldn't pretend that Flair was as big of a star or as important to the wrestling business as The Rock has been. I mean, that sounds sacrilegious to say but it's honestly true. As important as Flair was for Southern wrestling, The Rock was able to step right in when Austin was hurt during the peak of the business's popularity effortlessly and continue the WWF's winning streak of high ratings, sold out shows, and big PPV buyrates. Combined with his work during his return it's hard to argue that the man continues to be seen as one of the greatest wrestlers to ever live by casual and hardcore fans alike. Flair may just have more respect because of his old school nature and the infancy that the business really was at nationally when he was at his prime, but that nostalgia is a bit of a blinding factor. Certainly if we're comparing resumes and match quality as workers, it's a split even contest and you could even argue Flair has the upper hand there, but it would be closer than Flair fanatics would like to admit. Same could be seen for microphone skills. But it's that bottom dollar that makes me vote for The Rock here, he simply meant more nationally than Flair ever did, despite the Naitch's greatness. I could certainly see the argument for either side though.

Sorry, but helping the WWF coast for a year with a fantastic supporting cast and carrying a promotion for a decade with virtually no supporting cast will put Flair over every time. The fact that Vince McMahon (who virtually respects nothing that the NWA or WCW did) has honored him twice for what he did there gives the TRUE regard Naitch should be held in!

 

[TheOneAndOnlyGOAT]

Rock rode the coattails of the Monday Night Wars and Steve Austin rivalries with Hart, Michaels and VKM. He was put over by said Austin and 'carried' the company for less than a year (apparently with no assistance from Foley, Hunter, Angle etc from the way some people are getting on here). Then he appeared in a movie, decided he was too big for wrestling, tried to distance himself from the sport he (and his family) owed his fame too, came back when his films were slumping and has pretty much moved on again when said return to WWe did give his career a massive boost.

Lmfao!!

Rock is arguably the greatest pro wrestler of all time.

Calm your t!ts and stop nerd r@ging like a psychopath on every Rock fan on this thread.