Championship Match: (1) Steve Austin vs. (2) The Rock

[GI Cake]

TheOneAndOnlyGOAT has swayed me into voting Austin. Everything he said is completely on point and factually correct and anyone who disagrees with him licks butt.

Then again, I have a personal bias towards Steve Austin more so then the Rock, because I feel if it weren't for Austin WCW would have tanked and destroyed the professional wrestling business by now if they were the number one wrestling company in the world.

 

[Y 2 Jake]

Not even close? Really? From what I recall, the Rock-Austin debate is one of the biggest debates in all of wrestling.

Not really.

Just because you hate Rock and voted against Rock in pretty much every round doesn't change the fact that Rock-Austin were head to head in the attitude era.

I don't know about that. When Austin & The Rock faced off at Mania 15 it was hardly a match to get excited about. Austin was so far above him at that point. Anybody else remember? That's how I remember it anyway. The Rock and Austin were on the same level about a year later, when Austin was on the sidelines.

At least Rock gave Billy a chance, he was in the absolute prime of his career, he got down, he went to the mid card to feud with Gunn, he gave him a chance but Billy didn't capitalize on it.

There was absolutely no reason for Rock to be in the mid card at that time let alone LOSING in the mid card in the prime of his career.

You can look at it one of two ways. Either Gunn didn't capitalize or maybe The Rock didn't do everything in his power to put him over. I'm not saying that's the case, but, y'know, Billy did have to kiss a fat ladies arse. Hardly the best way of making a new headline talent.

Or look at it another way, Austin knew Billy Gunn would be a nobody and declined because he didn't want his time wasted.

As for Booker, Rock put him over 2 years later in that battle royal.

He lost to him, he didn't put him over in that battle royal. There's a difference between the two.


Vote FOLEY!

 

[Tastycles]

I went with Rock. Objectively, it's probably pretty close as to who is better, but for me subjectively its got to be Rock. Funnier, more charismatic and as I watched wrestling as a 11 year old British child when Austin was at his peak, the whole relatability of the character was a bit lost on me. I regularly watch old Rock videos, I never watch old Austin ones.

But that's not why I'm voting for him. The reality is, The Rock beat the greatest wrestler of all time in Brock Lesnar in the last round. Brock Lesnar is so good that there's no way someone could ever be booked to beat him and then lose to someone else in the same night as it would tarnish the reputation of one of wrestling's finest exponents. The Rock wins because in beating Brock Lesnar he transcended professional wrestling, and indeed all of western culture.

 

[Uncle Sam]

Rather boring final.

For me, Steve Austin and The Rock is like Batman and Robin, Holmes and Watson, or Hitler and Goebbels. Or salt and vinegar, if we're going to agree that vinegar's obviously not as good as salt. Basically, I'm like Tastycles, just on the other side of the fence.

Steve Austin was the man who introduced me to professional wrestling and my opinion of him, save a wife-beating or two, has remained high ever since.

The Rock wins because in beating Brock Lesnar he transcended professional wrestling, and indeed all of western culture.

I can dig that, sucka.

 

[Little Jerry Lawler]

I don't agree with Austin leaving in the manner he did but he makes a very good point. Austin has said himself he would have happily put over Lesnar but lets get a good payday out of it. The WWE was going to waste a Wrestlemania Main Event (and the payday that would have come with that) if Austin lost to Lesnar on Raw, taking money out of Lesnar's pocket, Austin's pocket and their OWN pocket (which they ultimately did). If I was in Austin's shoes I would have refused too.

Or you could have a month-long buildup that leads up to a match on Raw making it one of the biggest matches in Raw history. Hell, they could have had it a few weeks before Lesnar beat Hogan on Smackdown and made the storyline with him and Rock at Summerslam that much better. Brock took out two of the biggest legends in the WWE and see if he could have taken out the third and win the WWE title in the process.

When Austin was on screen though he often made the people he worked with look good, you think The Rock got to where he was without Austin's help? Hell no.

Mick Foley has just as much to do with that.

Sure Austin may have won but he did a good job with making Rock look more than worthy, he did the same for Kane, Undertaker, and Triple H.

Kane was fighting for the tag titles the next few months after losing the title.

Undertaker was already a multi-time world champion before 1998. Already established.

HHH was worthy the moment he married Stephanie and started his feud with Foley. I'm sensing a theme.

If The Rock is so good at making talent and Austin is so good at burying talent then why did most people who worked with Austin get elevated and most people who worked with Rock fall through the floor?

Read previous post.

 

[MrMojoRisin]

Re-read the rules of this tournament.

We can use whatever criteria we want, not who would win in a kayfabe match.

No kidding.

And I'm using the criteria that in the over 100 matches the two have had over the years, the Rock was Stone Cold's personal jobber.

 

[TheOneAndOnlyGOAT]

No kidding.

And I'm using the criteria that in the over 100 matches the two have had over the years, the Rock was Stone Cold's personal jobber.

Doesn't really mean anything except the fact that Rock didn't care about a win/loss record while Austin was egotistical and bitter of his past failures that when he finally became the number one guy, he didn't let go of that spot at any cost.

Austin always did what was right for Austin, Rock always did what was right for the business.

Which is why, in my opinion, Rock > Austin

 

[Dan Severn's Moustache]

To anyone voicing their opinion on Rock going over Austin, or even just voting Rock, thank you.

I solemnly swear I'm not being sarcastic. You've made this final much more exciting than it was anticipated to be, and I understand your general perception in regards to the situation at hand, so I understand why Rocky has as many votes as he does.

With that being said, despite the surprising amount of support Rock has amassed, I still don't see a justifiable reason for him to beat Austin here other than to promote intrigue. The best theory is "Rock is a hero for slaying Lesnar", and even that's debunked by kayfabe itself (Rock almost got killed by Lesnar coming into this match)

The fact of the matter is, Rock voters are bringing up small factors, while the Austin supporters are bringing up prime factors. What's to stop me from bringing up opposing small factors like "Steve Austin fought through a broken neck", or "Steve Austin could infiltrate hospitals and even the arena where the Austin's got a gun episode took place, so he must be crafty." And yet, they're still better arguments than "Rock was nice to the New Age Outlaws" or "Rock was funny".

I'm going to go ahead and give the Rock supporters some fuel, as I haven't seen this argument pop up yet. Everyone knows The Rock is extremely charismatic, but charisma sells tickets and merchandise, therefore making Rock a massive draw in his own regard.

Now, I'm going to go ahead and provide a counter-point: Actions speak louder than words. The Rock has had many famous segments over the years, but they mostly relied on his mic skills as opposed to what he did in those promos. On the contrary, Austin provided us with the gun episode, the beer truck, the zamboni, the supermarket fight, blowing up the DX Express, pouring cement in Vince's car, the hospital beatdown, numerous interferences in matches, the Sharpshooter pass-out, dozens and dozens of Stunners and many, many more, relying on little to no words and yet, leaving a powerful impression on us all, perhaps more than Rock's promos could.

And then of course, you've got the three main factors brought up by myself and others, Rock's damage, Austin's impact and Austin's win/loss record with Rock.

As stated at Wreslemania 17: “Both men need to win…and neither man can afford to lose.” And as I've stated, when both men needed the win equally, such as the WZT final, Austin always came out on top, especially with the advantages he has in this match.

Again, I'm not angry or upset with anyone voting Rock as he's a legendary performer in his own right, but Austin would simply not lose this match and there's absolutely no shame in Rock losing here.

 

[Dowdsy McDowds]

The fact of the matter is, Rock voters are bringing up small factors, while the Austin supporters are bringing up prime factors. What's to stop me from bringing up opposing small factors like "Steve Austin fought through a broken neck", or "Steve Austin could infiltrate hospitals and even the arena where the Austin's got a gun episode took place, so he must be crafty." And yet, they're still better arguments than "Rock was nice to the New Age Outlaws" or "Rock was funny".

Out of Prime Rock became WWE Champion and was a huge factor in record-breaking buyrates for Mania. That's pretty significant no?

Now, I'm going to go ahead and provide a counter-point: Actions speak louder than words. The Rock has had many famous segments over the years, but they mostly relied on his mic skills as opposed to what he did in those promos. On the contrary, Austin provided us with the gun episode, the beer truck, the zamboni, the supermarket fight, blowing up the DX Express, pouring cement in Vince's car, the hospital beatdown, numerous interferences in matches, the Sharpshooter pass-out, dozens and dozens of Stunners and many, many more, relying on little to no words and yet, leaving a powerful impression on us all, perhaps more than Rock's promos could.

You missed out his wife-beating shenanigans silly! Those Austin moments are good but none of them were ever the highest ever rated segment of a Raw episode.

And then of course, you've got the three main factors brought up by myself and others, Rock's damage, Austin's impact and Austin's win/loss record with Rock.

That stuff is SO boring though and neither of these guys were, so you're doing a disservice by taking this exciting match and bringing all your facts and history into it.

Rock was one of the best title-chasers I've ever seen and it never seemed to matter to the fans whether he had the title or not which is what amuses me about the 'days-Rock-had-the-title' argument; the guy never really needed it to cement his place on the card.

 

[MrMojoRisin]

Doesn't really mean anything except the fact that Rock didn't care about a win/loss record while Austin was egotistical and bitter of his past failures that when he finally became the number one guy, he didn't let go of that spot at any cost.

Austin always did what was right for Austin, Rock always did what was right for the business.

Which is why, in my opinion, Rock > Austin

Oh wow.

Out of curiosity, what color is the sky in your world exactly?

And just so this doesn't get flagged as spam...

if the Rock doesn't care about a win/loss record, and Austin is a despot that does... wouldn't it stand to reason then that the Rock wouldn't mind doing the honors in this match while Austin would stand firm and refuse to lose?

I think you just made Austin's case better than your non-stop pimping of the People's Strudel ever did.

 

[TheOneAndOnlyGOAT]

Oh wow.

Out of curiosity, what color is the sky in your world exactly?

And just so this doesn't get flagged as spam...

if the Rock doesn't care about a win/loss record, and Austin is a despot that does... wouldn't it stand to reason then that the Rock wouldn't mind doing the honors in this match while Austin would stand firm and refuse to lose?

I think you just made Austin's case better than your non-stop pimping of the People's Strudel ever did.

Except that this isn't about who would win in a kayfabe match.

It's about who's simply better.

The Rock is simply better than Stone Cold.

Look at where Austin is right now and where Rock is.

Rock comes back, breaks records in WWE then leaves to Hollywood to make millions.

Austin is doing a silly podcast with washed up has-beens and C-Level WWE superstars.

 

[MrMojoRisin]

Except that this isn't about who would win in a kayfabe match.

It's about who's simply better.

The Rock is simply better than Stone Cold.

Look at where Austin is right now and where Rock is.

Rock comes back, breaks records in WWE then leaves to Hollywood to make millions.

Austin is doing a silly podcast with washed up has-beens and C-Level WWE superstars.

A - This is about whatever people want to make it about. It's a fucking fantasy tournament for a bunch of wrestling marks. Quit telling people their criteria is wrong when the whole thing is completely subjective.

B - What does it matter what they're doing now? Rick Martel is a highly successful real estate mogul in Quebec. Ric Flair has outstanding bar tabs all across the southern United States. Does the fact that Martel is more successful after wrestling than Flair make Martel the better wrestler?

FYI Austin seems completely happy with what he does and is set for life financially. I don't think he could give two shits about your assessment of his post-wrestling life.

C - Do you honestly think that if Austin ever decided to make the same type of later life comeback that the Rock did, that it wouldn't be at least equally as successful? You know, the same type of later life comeback wrestling fans have been begging to get for the past decade?

If Austin ever did that comeback, not only would it be as successful (booked properly of course), but quite possibly more successful. Rightly or wrongly, there is a decent percentage of wrestling fans that view the Rock as a traitor to them because he left for Hollywood. Austin on the other hand, is viewed by more as still one of theirs, who only left because his health forced him to. It would stand a very high chance of being a more successful comeback if Austin did make a Rocky like return.

 

[DarksideEric]

Except that this isn't about who would win in a kayfabe match.

It's about who's simply better.

The Rock is simply better than Stone Cold.

Look at where Austin is right now and where Rock is.

Rock comes back, breaks records in WWE then leaves to Hollywood to make millions.

Austin is doing a silly podcast with washed up has-beens and C-Level WWE superstars.

Well in that case...

Jeff Jarrett is better than both Bret Hart and Shawn Michaels.

I mean, Jarrett is starting up his own wrestling organization... what the fuck are the two old retired bastards doing? Oh yeah, being old retired bastards.

Michael Cole is better than Jim Ross.

I mean, Cole is still commentating, what the fuck is Jim Ross doing? Nothing, that's what.

DDP is better than Andre the Giant.

I mean, DDP is helping other wrestlers trying to get physically, morally and emotionally stable. What the fuck is that Andre guy doing? Oh right, being dead.

 

[Poop Master Flex]

Or you could have a month-long buildup that leads up to a match on Raw making it one of the biggest matches in Raw history. Hell, they could have had it a few weeks before Lesnar beat Hogan on Smackdown and made the storyline with him and Rock at Summerslam that much better. Brock took out two of the biggest legends in the WWE and see if he could have taken out the third and win the WWE title in the process.

That's fine too but the point is BUILD THE MATCH, especially when its Austin vs. the guy you want to carry your company.

Mick Foley has just as much to do with that.

I never said Foley didn't. The whole point of the post was to prove Austin doesn't bury his opponents, thanks for proving my point.

Kane was fighting for the tag titles the next few months after losing the title.

And a month after that him and Taker pinned Austin for the WWE title, then he went on to main event the next PPV once again for the WWE title.

Undertaker was already a multi-time world champion before 1998. Already established.

Yes he was but he was in a career transition as well, going back with Paul Bearer, going all Satanic, forming his ministry that forms with the top heel in the company (done for the sole reason to take down Austin) and most of all getting back in the main event again. Yeah Austin's presence had nothing to do with that.

HHH was worthy the moment he married Stephanie and started his feud with Foley. I'm sensing a theme.

And Triple H was more worthy when he beat Austin in a 3 stages of hell match in 2001. More proof Austin doesn't bury his opponents.

Read previous post.

I'm good. You proved me right already.

 

[nightmare]

I never really understood why people consider a wrestler who makes popular movies, to be better than someone who doesnt. Should we start assigning a column in the history books for television & box office numbers if this is such a big factor?


Yes, I understand. "But Rock is so charismatic!" I get it. But honestly, using that argument is like using a hand puppet to distract someone from bad news. Can you imagine how ridiculous it would be if you had some lab results come back & the Dr. says "Well, it appears you have cancer. But...." then out from behind the desk, he brings out a big green & purple muppet monster " It looks like your cholesterol is down, so YAY!"


The facts are simple. Austin has laid waste to Rock. The numbers dont lie. Dont be fooled by hand puppets with funny eyebrows.

Arrive. Vote Stone Cold. Leave.

 

[Tastycles]

In the same way that Brock Lesnar deserved to get to the semi-final of a world's greatest wrestler ever tournament because he ended The Undertaker's streak, so too does The Rock deserve to win here. Why? I hear you ask, well it's simple.

When The Undertaker walked to the ring to face the rock on November 15 1998, he was 8-0 at Survivor Series. And The Rock beat that streak, and it was such a non-entity of an achievement in his career, that nobody ever brings up the fact that he ended The Undertaker's winning streak at Survivor Series.

In the same way that Brock Lesnar is one of the greatest of all time for a single win, taken out of context, so too is The Rock. Rock would beat Austin because he ended the Undertaker's winning streak at Survivor Series.

 

[Lee]

I voted the Rock as I just prefer him over Austin. I like the razmatazz of him which is strangely more relatable than a redneck.

 

[HBsam31]

Wanted to see what happened in an Austin Lesner final This is a match we have seen a few times before, and Austin dominated. It happened and Austin came out on top. Not really sure what the argument is Austin is winning by a lot and he should.

 

[FitFinlay4Life]

Honestly I'm a huge fan of both but this whole tournament is a joke if you ask me. It's pretty obvious that a lot of the voters are kids and manchilds still upset that the rock beat their heroes whether it's that untalented clown John Cena or the scrawny crybaby cm punk.

I vote for Rock just because he surpassed Austin since he came back in my opinion.

Look at you coming in with your big boy insults!

I'm far from upset that the Rock beat either Cena or CM Punk - I have argued against both regularly over the years. Just because he did beat CM Punk and attain a 50:50 record against Cena isn't sufficient for him to surpass Austin in my eyes... because I don't regard either of being on Austin's level.

Austin's prime would be between March 29th, '98 - December 9th, '01; Rock's prime started November 15th, 98... here is every televised bout between the two in that period...

Spoiler

[YOUTUBE]JZ9O61lnNy4[/YOUTUBE]
[YOUTUBE]xqcYRBXO9UY[/YOUTUBE]
[YOUTUBE]D6d6DER0Vlg[/YOUTUBE]
[YOUTUBE]GJ-WydBv65U[/YOUTUBE]
[YOUTUBE]r1lRJz4M_Dg[/YOUTUBE]
[YOUTUBE]p45AsWjm_n0[/YOUTUBE]​

Heel or face, Rock couldn't get the better of Stone Cold in his prime (sheesh, he even required three Rock Bottoms to beat him in his retirement bout)! You know what's a great reason to put Austin over Rock? What actually happened!!!

EDIT: Let me guess - despite what Jessica Simpson thinks, tuna isn't chicken... but in this case, it just might be GOAT?