The Rock did more for wrestling in 5 years than Cena will do in a life time. It may be opinion, but its an opinion coming from common sense. Also Cena having a better career is irrelevant to the argument. Its not about who had a better career, its about who had a better prime. If it was based on career Flair would probably win every year
How is that an opinion coming from common sense? Rock did more for wrestling by getting to the top...and then leaving? Im not faulting him there, but it's not an argument in his favor. His accomplishments may have surpassed Cena had he stayed, but he didn't, so we only have the body of work that he gave us. And that body simply isn't as impressive as John Cena's. Further, when I say career, I'm equating it to prime, because I'm referring to 2005-now with regards to Cena. In that time, Cena has won more championships, has had better reigns, and more dominant ones. Rock was part of an era that revolutionized the business, yes, but it didn't last.
Cena has done far more for wrestling then Rock has by staying with the business longer, getting stars over, and being an ambassador for the company. This isn't a knock on Rock, it's simply putting over Cena.
How so? The Rock won numerous world titles in his prime, was in some of the highest rated segments in wrestling history, was champion during the WWE's most profitable years and like Cena literally beat EVERYBODY he was in the ring with. The Rock became so big in his prime that he was bigger than the WWE. Say what you want about Cena but he isn't bigger than the WWE and chances are wouldn't survive long in the public's eye without it.
You can't compare ratings using "the highest in wrestling history." If you were to simply do that, then you might as well disqualify anyone from the tournament who wrestled before TV. Profitable has nothing to do with career success from an in-ring standpoint, and while Rock may have beaten everyone from his era in the same way Cena has his, Rock lost far more feuds, had shorter title reigns, and far less dominant reigns as well.
And you have to be kidding me that Cena isn't bigger then the WWE. He owes what he's gotten due to his time in WWE, but guess what? So does Rock. "Nobodies" outside of the WWE don't present awards and Grand Marshalls Bowl Games.
Cena was light years ahead of guys like Edge and Orton when it came to drawing power and being the top guy, which is why he won.
You realize Orton won his first World Title before Orton did, correct? And Cena being ahead of those guys is an argument for him, you realize that, correct? If Rock was truly far ahead in terms of drawing power, with eras being relative, he would have had similar success. But he simply didn't. In swapping the titles, he swapped victories with the stars of his era. Cena may have lost to the stars of his era, but it wasn't swapping victories. And outside of Punk, what feuds to men in his prime has Cena lost?
He beat HHH and HBK because their roles went from being the top guy to helping out the younger roster.
So HHH winning 3 WWE Titles, including his second longest reign, after Cena beat him at Wrestlemania 22 equates to him transitioning from a top spot? I don't follow that logic.
Shawn did have his best matches in his last 5-6 years, I agree but his role was different. All HBK did was put over the younger roster.
Yet Cena was one of the few during the second half of HBK's career to beat him clean. And how many of those that
did get a clean victory over HBK made him submit? There's Cena, Kurt Angle....and?
Lets get something straight. The only feud he DIDN'T win his first time was against Austin. He won his feud against HHH at KOTR 2000 when the feud ended (he lost his first feud BEFORE his prime against HHH that's true), he won his feud against Foley the night after St. Valentines day Massacre, once again on his FIRST time.
And how many feuds did he LOSE against those men? He lost feuds to Angle, HHH, Austin(twice), and Jericho, to name a few, during his prime. How many people has Cena ultimately lost feuds with while in his prime? CM Punk is the only real name that springs to mind as someone who beat Cena in a feud. The fact remains, Rock against the top wrestlers of his generation were men that he traded feuds with, and swapped titles back and forth with. He never had a definitive title reign where he beat everyone in the company on the way through the way Cena did.
Once again longer doesn't mean anything, this is a person in their prime. Once again if that mattered Lou Thesz or Flair would take the tournament hands down
.
Cena's prime has been longer then Austin's, or Rock's. Cena entered his prime in 2005 and is still in it. He won three WWE Titles last year, had the match of the year with CM Punk, and possibly the MOTY with Brock Lesnar this year.
Its not an opinion it actually is fact. Just like Bret Hart in the long run isn't in Hogan's league.
No, it's an opinion, and nothing more. Seeing how Cena's career is far from over, it's hard to say that Cena isn't/won't be in Austin's league when we look back ten years. Cena has had more runs then Austin with the title as well, longer runs, and more dominating ones as well.
But this is about Cena and Rock. Not Austin and Cena, or Hart and Hogan. Hart and Hogan's careers are over, so you can definitively compare and contrast now. But there are things Cena has done better then Austin, as mentioned above, that allow for the argument that Cena
is in Austin's league.
At the end of the day all that matters is drawing power and in all fairness the drawing power of Hogan, Austin, and The Rock is light years ahead of anyone.
No, drawing power isn't the only thing that matters, there's this thing called "accomplishments in one's prime" that matters, and Cena's accomplishments in his prime are more substantial then Rock's.
Once again it wasn't their roles to be top guys anymore. 9 times out of 10 when HBK was fighting against younger, top guys (like Cena, Angle, ect.) he lost.
He lost his feud with Cena, but he didn't lose his feud with Angle. He tapped at Mania 21, beat Angle at Judgment Day, then wrestled to a tie in their IronMan match on Raw. How is that him losing that feud? Yes, HBK put over alot of talent, but the clean victory against HBK in a non-gimmick match was
rare. Even more rare? A submission victory over HBK in the main event of Wrestlemania, something even the 20-0 Undertaker couldn't achieve.
HHH being champ was different as well. Being champ in '08 wasn't a nod to being the top guy because the top guy was still Cena.
The top guy is still John Cena, but being WWE Champion isn't a nod to CM Punk? And you do realize that one of his victories during his reign(HHH's) was over Cena, correct?
Cena had other things going on and wasn't on TV much, not to mention he was still recovering from an injury that was supposed to take 8 months to heal, so the title went to HHH.
The only times Cena missed TV was during his injuries in his prime. They went with HHH as champion when HHH won the Fatal Four Way Elimination Match that
included Cena. That kicked off HHH's most dominant title reign, he beat the face of the company in Cena,(who Cena would later make tap out at EC 2010 and then pin again on Raw), so how again is that not pushing HHH as a top guy?
Both are completely different situations. HBK and HHH were in the twilight of their careers, of course they are gonna put over younger talent like Cena. Even when HHH was champion he was still putting over younger guys in feuds.
What younger guys, other then Cena and Batista, did HHH truly put over post-2005? He beat Jeff Hardy at 2 or 3 straight PPV's, beat Randy Orton at 2 straight PPV's, and only lost the title on a fluke. He then beat Orton at the next Wrestlemania, and only lost the title to him in a
six-man tag match.
And what you're conveniently leaving out here? All of these things happened AFTER Cena made him tap out at Wrestlemania 22, pinned him clean at Backlash the next month, and pinned him again on Raw. HHH had plenty of victories over the top stars, and two title reigns of decent length. He was hardly in the twilight of his career, no more then Cena is now.
Both men were heels, Cena was the face. Who is to say that Cena wouldn't be facing a face Rock in the tournament which I think would be a good assumption?
Since the logic of judging a man in his prime is the basis, it's a fair assumption that Cena would be a face as well, if for no other reason then Cena has been a face during his
entire prime. And John Cena's clean losses as a face during his prime have been few and far between.
Cena loses just as much as he wins against big face wrestlers. He lost to HBK and Batista both clean during his prime.
In matches that truly meant very little. When he faced them with the title on the line, and in closing out feuds, he beat both men. Yes, Batista was a heel when they feuded again, but Cena still owned 4 consecutive victories over him, 3 in title matches. HBK did beat him in a non-title match, but lost the two title matches sandwhiched in-between.
The Rock's only losing record is against Austin. He has winning records against everyone else he feuded with. Austin as a draw was greater than everyone. Cena isn't Austin, he's not greater than Austin, he probably never will be.
And men where Cena has had more then one match with, who does he have a losing record against? Not HHH, not HBK, not Orton, not Edge, and not Punk. And as stated earlier, there are things Cena has on Austin, and he's been booked stronger(longer reigns, more runs) then Austin as well. If Cena has been booked stronger then Austin, why wouldn't he be booked stronger then Rock, who does have a losing record against Austin?
Logically, it would suggest that Cena would be booked over Rock.
I never said hometown guys didn't lose. Not once did I say that. But I will say Cena did lose to a hometown guy at WM28.
Returning celebrity Dwayne "The Rock" Johnson beat John Cena in his hometown. Not "in his prime" Rock.
The Rock was a household name before he went to Hollywood. If you don't watch wrestling you probably don't know who Cena is.
I think you'ld be quite surprised by this. Cena has been interviewed numerous times on ESPN, Larry King, he's Grand Marshalled parades, done commercials, was in several movies(The Marine, 12 Rounds) that were nationwide in theatres, so to suggest that Cena isn't a household name is silly.
Yeah and if you look at sheer dominance and feuds won Ultimate Warrior trumps Cena yet he still lost to Cena earlier in the tournament. There's more to wrestling than title reigns and feuds won, a lot more. To constantly use that is not an accurate measurement of greatness. Drawing power on the other hand is.
It's not the only argument that Im using, but to deny how one performs in their prime doesn't matter is asinine. Warrior was never able to sustain dominance or feuds the way Cena has, as his time on top was very short. I've been arguing the body of Cena's career, which includes the elevation of stars such as Orton, Punk, and Edge, all who had drifted between upper-mid and main event before Cena, and were full-time main event after.
Cena took numerous tries to beat Batista in all fairness. Batista won their first feud and their first 2 matches against each other.
One match hardly constitutes a feud. The true feud that Cena had against Batista was one that went more then one match, and Cena only lost his second match against a fresh Batista after just competing in and winning a 45 minute EC match. He then won the next four matches against Batista, making him tap out, won the LMS match, and made Batista quit. That feud was a continuation of their feud from 2008, which was cut short when Cena broke his neck.
A feud that Cena definitively won, as he has every feud during his prime, save CM Punk. A man whom, despite that, still has a losing record against John Cena.
The Rock also beat every big name wrestler put in front of him as well. Most matches Cena didn't dominate, he got whipped most of the time to pull out the victory from coming behind as that's his match style. I would also argue that he had a better career than The Rock because he didn't.
I'm assuming that you're saying that you would argue that he
hasn't had a better career then Rock. But based on what? Drawing power? You can't fault Cena for the era that he's in, especially since the Chris Benoit tradgedy turned off a lot of viewers. And the fact remains that Cena is the top draw going today(and it's not close), and it shows in the number of reigns, his place on the card(main eventing EVERY PPV, title match or no) and, once again, the length of his reigns. His accomplishments and the way he's been booked suggest that he would very much so go over Rock in a match between both in their primes.
The Rock in 5 years did more for wrestling than almost any wrestler in history, including Cena.
Cena's elevated more stars, has been the better ambassador for the sport, and has carried the company during the last 7 years. Rock did alot of good for the industry as well, no doubt. But to suggest he's done more then the man who's carried the company on his back for 7 years? Quite the stretch.
It may be opinion but chances are if he stuck around and didn't go to Hollywood Cena may have never become the top guy at all and if The Rock and Lesnar stuck around Cena would never have been a top guy. Do I know that? No. Is it a very good possibility? Yes.
I can live with everything else you're saying, but to suggest that Cena wouldn't be "the guy" is simply asinine. Cena would have been elevated to the spot he's in irregardless simply due to the fact of his tireless work ethic, undeniable charisma, and his in-ring skills.
The fact of the matter is this: Both men have done alot, and their contributions to the wrestling industry simply can't be denied. But I look at a matchup like this one, prime vs prime, and believe that Cena would be booked to win this very type of matchup. Cena had consistency in winning main event matches where Rock simply has not, and had a great deal of trouble against Austin, Undertaker, Jericho, Foley, Angle and HHH. The kind of difficulties Cena simply hasn't had against the top stars from his era. The way both men were booked indicates that John Cena would win this match.
Cena lost in Boston at Summerslam 2006, and Edge, who was the face at Unforgiven 2006, lost in his hometown, in a TLC match to Cena, no less. I just listed two, ones relatable to Cena. 