Championship Final: (1) The Rock vs. (3) John Cena

[Little Jerry Lawler]

Your a ****** because I told you the site to go to and the dates so if your not smart enough to type in the website and go look for yourself then that's your problem Rock beat him in Austraila while on tour and at a Smackdown taping a few weeks prior to losing the title at SS.

You mean that triple threat in Australia in which Rock pinned HHH to retain the title and you must be imagining that other matchup because from the time Lesnar joined Smackdown he faced Henry, Hogan, and Rikishi.

 

[Benson]

Rock never fought Lesnar at a Smackdown taping prior to Summerslam. And tours don't count because they aren't televised.

 

[ThUgNiF1c3nT]

Actually the match in Austrailia was televised in Austraila it was called WWE Global Warming.

March 15, 2003 -House Event: The Rock defeats Brock Lesnar in their first match since Brock beat Rock for the WWE title.. so if you can go here http://www.onlineworldofwrestling.com/profiles/r/rock.html you will find all the opponents and feuds of The Rocks career and if you go here http://www.onlineworldofwrestling.com/profiles/j/john-cena.html you will find all the opponents and feud info throughout John Cena's career and you tell me what looks better

 

[Uncle Sam]

He gave The Rock a good 45 seconds to recover while he decided to mock the Rock, instead of focusing on the finish.

This is a man who has a signature move which is to pause, look at the audience, put his hand up, wait for the audience to react, slowly lean over his opponent, wave his hand in front of his face, run over to the ropes, bounce off the ropes, drop down and punch his opponent in the forehead. This is a sport where most people refuse to hit a finisher before they've spent at least ten seconds taunting for it. What John Cena did was not out of the ordinary.

Furthermore, I'm struggling to see how "John Cena did something wrong" is somehow a black mark on The Rock. If we're going to say that was a marred win, then I can only imagine that 0.01% of victories in wrestling history can be considered legitimate.

How is that the best year of his career? How is that, in ANY way, better than 2007 or 2010?

Three things. First, I said one of the best years of his career (both times). Second, his matches - and, indeed, feud - with Punk are what I consider to be Cena's best work. The best work of an impressive career, admittedly. Third, in terms of kayfabe - which I wasn't talking about but I'll gladly indulge you, seeing as it wasn't clear what I was referring to - the year is not anything to sneeze at. His actual 2011 pay-per-view record:

• Final five of the Royal Rumble, after eliminating all of The New Nexus.
• Won the Elimination Chamber.
• Lost to Miz in WrestleMania main event.
• Won WWE title from Miz and Morrison at Extreme Rules.
• Defeated The Miz at Over The Limit.
• Defeated R-Truth at Capitol Punishment.
• Lost to CM Punk at Money in the Bank.
• Lost to CM Punk at SummerSlam.
• Won WWE title from Alberto Del Rio at Night of Champions.
• Lost title to ADR after getting locked out the cage and Punk getting pinned.
• Lost to ADR at Vengeance.
• Missed TLC (the only pay-per-view he missed that year).
• Main evented Survivor Series alongside The Rock ("afterthought"?), won.
• Technically 2012, but what the hell: Double count-out at Royal Rumble.
• Defeated Kane in an ambulance match at Elimination Chamber.

The Rock got the first clean win over John Cena in a year. Well, even longer. I'm told it's closer to four years, but I don't fancy trawling OWW for that long, so let's just pretend it was a year.

And Carlito and Van Dam beat Cena before he was in his prime.

Carlito I'll give you. Van Dam beat Cena when he was a two-time champion who had Triple H, Edge, Kurt Angle, Chris Jericho and JBL on his list of defeatees, and I fail to see what's fundamentally worse about John Cena then than any of the years afterward.

Rock lost to Hurricane Helms in his prime.

John Cena lost to Kevin Federline. It's irrelevant. I'm not even sure why I typed that last bit. Too late now.

When you've got the fact that The Rock holds a clean win over a top of his game Cena, I don't see how you can construe this as anything but a victory for The Rock. It's simple - you don't need to do that much analysis.

 

[aza1294]

Rock wins this one. For those who don't happen to recall Rock beat Cena at wrestlemania, in the main event, 8 years after he has been in singles competition, whilst John was in his prime. This was only 3 or 4 months ago. If Rock can win that then I see no way for Cena to win especially considering he has had more difficult matches in the one night part of the tournament. Champion Rock

 

[cult_of_icecream_bar]

I am actually disgusted to see both of the men be in the final.I really don't care who wins WZT,but if someone is to win it this year,it's gotta be the rock.I am not counting his win against cena cause guest celebrities always win.I am voting him because,he and austin made the crap which was the attitude era watchable.I am not gonna go in the win-loss record,because he'll fall way behind to john there.Cena can win next year.Let the rock have some glory.

 

[The Brain]

I know a lot of people aren’t going to like my reasoning but I’m not putting too much stock in Rock’s win at WM28. I said it in an earlier thread and laugh at it if you want but there is some truth in it. The guest celebrity always wins. At WM28 Rock was a guest celebrity. If you want to use that one match as your reason for voting for Rock you may as well vote Jay Leno over Hulk Hogan or Mr. T over Roddy Piper.

When Rock was a full time wrestler in his prime he often struggled against other main event stars. He was dominated by Steve Austin and didn’t get a win until Austin’s last match ever when he literally almost died the night before. Rock struggled against Triple H, Undertaker, Brock Lesnar, Chris Jericho, Mick Foley, and Big Show. Rock’s three consecutive main event mania losses stand out more than his later mania wins. Rock simply didn’t have the consistent main event success Cena has had.

Rock may have been more popular. He may be funnier and have better catchphrases. He may be the bigger name outside wrestling. This is about who would win the match. I believe the John Cena of 2005-2012 is more likely to win a match against the Rock of 1998-2001.

 

[Hulkamaniac]

I know a lot of people aren’t going to like my reasoning but I’m not putting too much stock in Rock’s win at WM28. I said it in an earlier thread and laugh at it if you want but there is some truth in it. The guest celebrity always wins. At WM28 Rock was a guest celebrity. If you want to use that one match as your reason for voting for Rock you may as well vote Jay Leno over Hulk Hogan or Mr. T over Roddy Piper.

When Rock was a full time wrestler in his prime he often struggled against other main event stars. He was dominated by Steve Austin and didn’t get a win until Austin’s last match ever when he literally almost died the night before. Rock struggled against Triple H, Undertaker, Brock Lesnar, Chris Jericho, Mick Foley, and Big Show. Rock’s three consecutive main event mania losses stand out more than his later mania wins. Rock simply didn’t have the consistent main event success Cena has had.

Rock may have been more popular. He may be funnier and have better catchphrases. He may be the bigger name outside wrestling. This is about who would win the match. I believe the John Cena of 2005-2012 is more likely to win a match against the Rock of 1998-2001.

I completely disagree. He is not the "celebrity guest star." He started his Cena-Rock angle back over a year before Mania 28 (and is rumored to be continued on at next year's Mania, again showing this isn't a Guest Celebrity happening like you describe. He wrestled another event, the Survivor Series, also in the Main Event (where he also won).

This was built and wrestled as a Main Event Feud, not a Guest Celebrity "Big Show-Mayweather/LT-Bigelow" style feud. This noticeable because those "Celebrity Guest Matches" never, ever involve the Big Dog in the company fighting the celebrity. That's because the Big Guy (in this case Cena) can't job to an outsider whereas a second tier guy, like the Big Show, can.

Rocky came back as his pro wrestling character The Rock, not movie star Dwayne "The Rock" Johnson. Trying to argue otherwise seems to me to be people trying to rationalize voting for the guy they want to vote for, or just to be contrarian.

 

[Matt1231230]

I completely disagree. He is not the "celebrity guest star." He started his Cena-Rock angle back over a year before Mania 28 (and is rumored to be continued on at next year's Mania, again showing this isn't a Guest Celebrity happening like you describe. He wrestled another event, the Survivor Series, also in the Main Event (where he also won).

This was built and wrestled as a Main Event Feud, not a Guest Celebrity "Big Show-Mayweather/LT-Bigelow" style feud. This noticeable because those "Celebrity Guest Matches" never, ever involve the Big Dog in the company fighting the celebrity. That's because the Big Guy (in this case Cena) can't job to an outsider whereas a second tier guy, like the Big Show, can.

Rocky came back as his pro wrestling character The Rock, not movie star Dwayne "The Rock" Johnson. Trying to argue otherwise seems to me to be people trying to rationalize voting for the guy they want to vote for, or just to be contrarian.

The Rock is basically a part-time star who comes back for 2 matches in a year. That isn't the prime, full-time rock who would be wrestling in this contest. If the match was taking place between prime cena and prime rock when they're both full time competitors, Cena would be the one booked to win.

If Cena can beat Hogan and Undertaker in this tournament, he easily beats Rock.

 

[ErictheEnt]

How in the Hell did it come to this? How is it that CM Punk took out Bret Hart and Andre the Giant but couldn't handle Lou Thesz? (sigh) How did Cena beat the Undertaker? Ridiculous.

Anyways, I guess that doesn't matter.

Rock vs. Cena.

Yeah, they fought already and the probably was; the Rock was out of his prime, out of shape. He had only a single tag-match in the past 7 years and he still won. WWE made Cena look kinda lame there even though he got caught gloating. Still, he lost. Against an older, semi-out of shape Rock. Primed Rock would have been even more difficult. I cheered for Cena in that match but I can't support him here.

 

[Hulk Hogan's Brother]

I think that the manner in which some of the posters are interpreting the significance of the Rock/ Cena match which happened this year at WrestleMania is laughable to say the least. Some people are dismissing it as a win by just a celebrity. Remind me again as to who celebrities generally win over. Oh yeah, midcarders like Big Show and Bam Bam Bigelow. To beat John Cena, you have to be a great wrestler, which The Rock certainly is.

It was certainly not a case of The Rock needing to show the current era his worth. He won't wrestle much, certainly not more than 3 to 4 times a year, and even that is a stretch, really. There is nothing that can be gained from establishing him. The Rock himself is a legend of the business and certainly he had little to gain from his victory. If the WWE or The Rock wanted to drive home the point as to how great Rock is, they can easily show them his numerous title wins and his time in the WWF. In fact, The Rock's greatness is so given that it is idiotic to even think that he needs to be established with a win over John Cena.

That match was a "Once in a lifetime" match. To some of you it may look as if a rematch is going to happen somewhere down the line but I doubt if that will be the case. At the very least, I do not think that it will happen with Cena as a face. It may happen if Cena turns heel. The Rock won the "once in a lifetime" match simply because he is the better wrestler of the two. It was a showdown between two of the best in the business, a showdown that can never be replicated. There was so much of a grudge feeling between the two leading into this match. Cena would have won if this was about passing the torch. However, given the situation of the match, a one night spectacle to determine who is the better man among the two, The Rock won because he is simply better. And that is what should happen here as well as it is a tournament to determine who is the greatest wrestler of all time. Whichever way you slice it, The Rock will always be bigger than John Cena.

Vote: The Rock.

 

[ThUgNiF1c3nT]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SjuWtIb0LQ&feature=related

This video is gold someone go on youtube and find me a video of John Cena having this much chemistry with one Superstar on the mic. John Cena can't do what the Rock does on the mic and in the ring and for the people who say he wasnt a great wrestler i beg to differ go look at his matches with Kurt Angle and his matches with Chris Benoit and his match with Bret Hart and you tell me he can't wrestle shit he was a brawler but he had good technical skills too.

 

[Benson]

[YOUTUBE]rmOjXDOXIeM[/YOUTUBE]

Cena's chemistry with Barrett was PERFECT. And it's such an odd pairing, but it worked flawlessly. THese two had a bunch of great promo segments. I'd also bring up his chemistry with Piper as evident in this video. Cena has also had great promo chemistry with Edge, CM Punk, and VInce McMahon.

And to prove that Rock was a GREAT in ring wrestler, you bring up that he's had great matches with some of the best in-ring technicians in WWE History like Angle, Benoit, and hey, you left out Jericho. I'd bet he would have had great matches with HBK too if they ever wrestled. You could have gone a ton of different directions here to make a valid point. Like pointing out that he had very good matches with Foley, Kane, and Big Show and that would have worked to your advantage more. I'd then point out that Cena has had great matches with Batista, Lashley, Big Show, and gave The Great Khali the best match of his career (the only good match of his career), but still. It would have been better than saying that Rock had great matches when he was paired up in the ring with people that could have a Four Star match with Colin Delaney.

 

[Tastycles]

I wore dog tags during the Rock/Cena match at WrestleMania. Ask Tastycles. How is that relevant? No idea.

This is completely true. His lack of Jorts though makes me think that Sam is only a fairweather fan.

As for the match, well I've decided to vote Cena. I have a plethora of arguments to support both over their careers, so am going to base it entirely on their feud last year. Yes, Rock won the match, but I don't think you can read too much into that. What you can say is that Cena could hang with The Rock on the mic, and never looked upstaged. Given what people were saying would happen, that's an incredible achievement.

If this was a tight match, I'd hold off voting, but it looks like The Rock's going to take it and Cena doesn't deserve a spanking.

 

[ThUgNiF1c3nT]

Cena's chemistry with Barrett was PERFECT. And it's such an odd pairing, but it worked flawlessly. THese two had a bunch of great promo segments. I'd also bring up his chemistry with Piper as evident in this video. Cena has also had great promo chemistry with Edge, CM Punk, and VInce McMahon.

True enough but you cannot compare any of cena promos with any of his rivals with Rock and Austin the way they could play the crowd is unmatched hell you none of Cena's rivalries can compare to the magnitude of Rock and Austin. Cena is a WWE's biggest draw today but as we saw at WM 28 he still can't drawn more money than Rock oh and Rock had better chemistry with Vinny Mac than Cena does and his promos with Vince are better than Cenas.

 

[ChickenWaffles]

I know a lot of people aren’t going to like my reasoning but I’m not putting too much stock in Rock’s win at WM28. I said it in an earlier thread and laugh at it if you want but there is some truth in it. The guest celebrity always wins. At WM28 Rock was a guest celebrity. If you want to use that one match as your reason for voting for Rock you may as well vote Jay Leno over Hulk Hogan or Mr. T over Roddy Piper.

When Rock was a full time wrestler in his prime he often struggled against other main event stars. He was dominated by Steve Austin and didn’t get a win until Austin’s last match ever when he literally almost died the night before. Rock struggled against Triple H, Undertaker, Brock Lesnar, Chris Jericho, Mick Foley, and Big Show. Rock’s three consecutive main event mania losses stand out more than his later mania wins. Rock simply didn’t have the consistent main event success Cena has had.

Rock may have been more popular. He may be funnier and have better catchphrases. He may be the bigger name outside wrestling. This is about who would win the match. I believe the John Cena of 2005-2012 is more likely to win a match against the Rock of 1998-2001.

This is extremely faulty logic.

You dismiss Rock's win at WM28 on the basis that he was a "celebrity", basically ignoring kayfabe. That's fine. But you can't then talk about The Rock "struggling" against others, because that's an argument from a kayfabe perspective.

 

[ThUgNiF1c3nT]

Originally Posted by*The Brain*View Post
I know a lot of people aren’t going to like my reasoning but I’m not putting too much stock in Rock’s win at WM28. I said it in an earlier thread and laugh at it if you want but there is some truth in it. The guest celebrity always wins. At WM28 Rock was a guest celebrity. If you want to use that one match as your reason for voting for Rock you may as well vote Jay Leno over Hulk Hogan or Mr. T over Roddy Piper.*

When Rock was a full time wrestler in his prime he often struggled against other main event stars. He was dominated by Steve Austin and didn’t get a win until Austin’s last match ever when he literally almost died the night before. Rock struggled against Triple H, Undertaker, Brock Lesnar, Chris Jericho, Mick Foley, and Big Show. Rock’s three consecutive main event mania losses stand out more than his later mania wins. Rock simply didn’t have the consistent main event success Cena has had.

Rock may have been more popular. He may be funnier and have better catchphrases. He may be the bigger name outside wrestling. This is about who would win the match. I believe the John Cena of 2005-2012 is more likely to win a match against the Rock of 1998-2001.

This is extremely faulty logic. You dismiss Rock's win at WM28 on the basis that he was a "celebrity", basically ignoring kayfabe. That's fine. But you can't then talk about The Rock "struggling" against others, because that's an argument from a kayfabe perspective.

I just want to add on to what Chicken said by saying Rock didn't struggle against jericho the only reason that Rock and Austin let Jericho win the tourney at Vengance because they knew they wernt going to be there much longer so they were putting Jericho over. Also with Lesnar The Rock dropped the title to put Lesnar over. With Foley I don't recall The Rock struggling yeah he lost a few times to Foley but he didn't struggle. With Undertaker The Rock has a winning record he didn't struggle he beat him pretty soundly for the most part when they fought. With HHH most of Rock's losses against him were because of interference. With Big Show really lol what a joke The Rock got the best of him in their feuds together. The only real struggle Rock had was with SCSA.

 

[Benson]

I just want to add on to what Chicken said by saying Rock didn't struggle against jericho the only reason that Rock and Austin let Jericho win the tourney at Vengance because they knew they wernt going to be there much longer so they were putting Jericho over.

Rcok was there for over half a year and he won another championship. He wasn't doing it to put Jericho over. He was doing it because they needed a vehicle to move the belt on to a heel so HHH can do the "baby face comes back from injury, wins the Rumble, and and wins the title at Wrestlemania". They did it because it worked for everybody's story lines. HHH needed a heel to win the title from, and Rock was going in to feud with Hogan. If the company was so damn worried about "making" Jericho, and bear in mind, the Rock only "puts over" Jericho if Vince is okay with that, than they wouldn't have made Jericho out to be the third wheel in the HHH/Stephanie/Jericho feud. And then the company that was SO interested in having Jericho put over, proceeded to make him into a mid carder by summer.

With Foley I don't recall The Rock struggling yeah he lost a few times to Foley but he didn't struggle.

If his objective is to win, and he failed that objective, I'd say he struggled.

With Big Show really lol what a joke The Rock got the best of him in their feuds together.

Rock's lost to the Big Show clean a few times. I'd say it's more even than you'd like to admit.

With HHH most of Rock's losses against him were because of interference.

And most of Cena's losses to anybody are because of interference.

 

[Benson]

As for the Undertaker, they've wrestled 7 times, one on one.

And that record is, Undertaker has won four, Rock has won two (Once by Disqualification) and One was a No Contest.

That came from your own website.

 

[The Brain]

I just want to add on to what Chicken said by saying Rock didn't struggle against jericho the only reason that Rock and Austin let Jericho win the tourney at Vengance because they knew they wernt going to be there much longer so they were putting Jericho over. Also with Lesnar The Rock dropped the title to put Lesnar over. With Foley I don't recall The Rock struggling yeah he lost a few times to Foley but he didn't struggle. With Undertaker The Rock has a winning record he didn't struggle he beat him pretty soundly for the most part when they fought. With HHH most of Rock's losses against him were because of interference. With Big Show really lol what a joke The Rock got the best of him in their feuds together. The only real struggle Rock had was with SCSA.

The Rock did struggle against Jericho. He lost to Y2J at No Mercy 2001, Vengeance 2001, and Royal Rumble 2002. You say Rock let Jericho beat him. Well Cena let Rock beat him at mania this year. What's the difference? Rock dropped the title to Lesnar to put Lesnar over. Ok. He lost to Lesnar. It's ok to excuse all Rock's losses because he was just being a nice guy putting people over? That's just stupid. I remember Rock losing to Taker in a championship match on ppv. I also remember him losing to Show on ppv in a match to determine the number one contender for mania. HHH went over Rock in their bigger matches which include a ladder match, a mania main event, and an iron man match. I know Rock is cool and has funny catchphrases but wrestler Rock also lost more feuds than he won. At least against bigger name stars. Movie star Rock could use his celebrity stature to win a match but that's not the Rock that's competing in this tournament.

 

[ThUgNiF1c3nT]

We obiously weren't looking at the same site because Its definitely 4-2 in favor of The Rock 3 clean and 1 by DQ and there was 1 no contest.

 

[Benson]

October 5th, 1998.
December 22, 1997
May 17th, 1999
September 18th, 2000


The FOUR times Undertaker beat Rock in a One on One match. Did I seriously just have to walk you through your own evidence?

 

[D-Man]

I know a lot of people aren’t going to like my reasoning but I’m not putting too much stock in Rock’s win at WM28. I said it in an earlier thread and laugh at it if you want but there is some truth in it. The guest celebrity always wins. At WM28 Rock was a guest celebrity. If you want to use that one match as your reason for voting for Rock you may as well vote Jay Leno over Hulk Hogan or Mr. T over Roddy Piper.

When Rock was a full time wrestler in his prime he often struggled against other main event stars. He was dominated by Steve Austin and didn’t get a win until Austin’s last match ever when he literally almost died the night before. Rock struggled against Triple H, Undertaker, Brock Lesnar, Chris Jericho, Mick Foley, and Big Show. Rock’s three consecutive main event mania losses stand out more than his later mania wins. Rock simply didn’t have the consistent main event success Cena has had.

Rock may have been more popular. He may be funnier and have better catchphrases. He may be the bigger name outside wrestling. This is about who would win the match. I believe the John Cena of 2005-2012 is more likely to win a match against the Rock of 1998-2001.

I agree with this, 100%.

Guys, Lawrence Taylor also beat Bam Bam Bigelow. Floyd Mayweather beat the Big Show. Maria Menoudos beat Beth Phoenix. Are they better than their opponents? No fucking way.

I look at John Cena's career and then I look at the Rock's. Honestly, I see no comparison. Cena is superior.

I have to vote for Cena here. One match does not solidify the Rock as a better superstar than John Cena. Not in my book.

 

[FlexAmerican Dynamite]

Ok I can understand voting for Cena because you just feel he has had the better career but dismissing his loss to Rock because you think he's a celebrity is a garbage excuse. Did any of these celebrities win against the face of the company? No. Did they headline the damn PPV? No. Will they be remembered in one of the most historic wrestlemania matches? No. Rock is bigger than WWE but that in no way makes his win a celebrity win that will be forgotten.

 

[Johnny Scumm]

I agree with this, 100%.

Guys, Lawrence Taylor also beat Bam Bam Bigelow. Floyd Mayweather beat the Big Show. Maria Menoudos beat Beth Phoenix. Are they better than their opponents? No fucking way.

I look at John Cena's career and then I look at the Rock's. Honestly, I see no comparison. Cena is superior.

I have to vote for Cena here. One match does not solidify the Rock as a better superstar than John Cena. Not in my book.

If it's any more of a "hit" to Rock being a Celebrity, it even has him listed here as a Wrestlemania Celebrity - http://prowrestling.wikia.com/wiki/List_of_celebrities_involved_with_WrestleMania

Ok I can understand voting for Cena because you just feel he has had the better career but dismissing his loss to Rock because you think he's a celebrity is a garbage excuse. Did any of these celebrities win against the face of the company? No. Did they headline the damn PPV? No. Will they be remembered in one of the most historic wrestlemania matches? No. Rock is bigger than WWE but that in no way makes his win a celebrity win that will be forgotten.

Celebrity is the key word here Dynamite. For years Rocky hadn't been wrestling. He'd been appearing in films, making awful acting appearance. What he was at Wrestlemania was NOT a Wrestler, he was a Celebrity making an appearance, which is what allowed him to come out on top.

Technically, David Arquette went over Jeff Jarrett & Eric Bischoff (He pinned Bischoff, oh well) to become the WCW Champion and technically, with a bit of help from DDP, he went over Tank Abbott. The celebrity always has an upper hand in these things (unless you're Danny Bonaduce facing Eric Young that is).

As D-Man's said, one match does not mean Rock wins this. Rock would NOT be a Celebrity in this match, he'd be a wrestler and Cena would trump him all night long. The Rock may have beaten Hulk Hogan and The Undertaker in real life, Cena's beaten The Undertaker too. He may never have faced Hogan, but if he's gone over both men in ONE NIGHT here, he's taking down The Rock and there no doubt about it.

I've said it before, I'll say it again. Listen to the Cena-siders here, VOTE FOR JOHN CENA.