Championship Final: (1) The Rock vs. (3) John Cena

[FlexAmerican Dynamite]

Yes, but how that means he's still losing just because of the numbers disadvantage, does it?

I'm going off the rules of the tournament, Rock has won by larger amounts than Cena , your not really even trying to dispute this anymore your just trying to work your way around it.

Title reigns mean things Mr. Dynamite. They add prestige to your character and like LJL said earlier on;

Pretty sure he wasn't exactly fighting for Cena over there but okay I'm sick of arguing over irrelevant things anyway.

Oh yeah, if titles don't mean shit, don't try & defend Rock and say he's "miles" above Cena.

He is, and I've never once said that he is because of titles, you tried to use that argument for Cena is your first post.

I never said this.

You were acting as if record in WWE today somehow trump anything that happened back then.

No, coming from the guy who think Lou Thesz was above Rock's level. You don't pay much attention to Thesz, do you?

Seeing how he lost to Rock by a massive landslide, no. Now shush and start arguing for the person that matters here John Cena.

No really, surely if you're a Champion and you've held titles for so many days, it means, until you lose the title, you're beating people. If Cena's held the WWE Title for a total of 1000+ days, that means he's been a fighting champion and in his longest reign, think about how many times he'll have done this. If Rock can't hold a title for a long enough period of time, it means he'll be beaten more often. Cena has a bigger chance than you think, again, you cannot admit it.

This isn't for title's though, something your not admitting. Their match at Mania wasn't for any title. This has nothing to do with anything besides a one night tournament in which Rock has the clear advantage.

No, I just like having fun.

Yeah, I red your rep, you should be having a doozy with this one.

Hey, y'know, at least I came up with more names right?

Yet the two I listed trumped them all.

What about that mean streak Cena unleashed against BROCK LESNAR? You know, when he beat him.

You mean where he got his ass kicked for about twenty minutes and then made a comeback Hogan style and barely survived? Yeah, but Cena has beaten Brock, Rock has beaten Cena, Brock has beaten Rock. It really all cancels each other out for now.

It's funny that you think Darren Bull is credible.

If you really want to bash Bull for no reason go back to the WZCW section.

Yeah, my dead Mum? Nice one! see, now he's just going in for the low blows.

I didn't know your mom was dead and honestly I don't care, your the one who brought the unneeded childish insults.

No, what it is, is you're getting butthurt now over the fact that you want Rocky to win and are coming back arguing endlessly, trying to make me look wrong or stupid, but you're never actually coming up with anything of your own, you're just saying everything that I say is wrong, meaning that you really have nothing to contribute, you're just trying to be degrading and failing.

There is nothing more that needs to be said, go back and read Echelon's simple post on why Rock should win this. The only thing left to do is dissect your idiotic posts so that you will eventually learn why you are so wrong.

See people, if these are the kind voting for The Rock, you'll probably want to vote Cena just so you don't wanna be seen mingling with them.

Still waiting on the real Cena supporters to show up, I've been arguing with the Cenation but I want to fight the Chain gang. Oh well.

 

[Johnny Scumm]

I'm going off the rules of the tournament, Rock has won by larger amounts than Cena , your not really even trying to dispute this anymore your just trying to work your way around it.

No, the previous rounds Rock may have won big, but the past two matter. Cena may have the disadvantage, like I've said. But as you failed to quote in your entire reply, I mentioned that he's survived a 60 Minute Iron-Man Match, he has an unblemished I Quit record (Rock does, but he's only been in one, not to mention that almost right after, he lost in that awful Empty Arena match) & he can go better than pretty much anyone (Bar Punk?) in the WWE today.

Pretty sure he wasn't exactly fighting for Cena over there but okay I'm sick of arguing over irrelevant things anyway.

No, but he was sure pointing things out. Nothing here is irrelevant, fuck. Everything that could go towards arguing which man might is relevant here.

He is, and I've never once said that he is because of titles, you tried to use that argument for Cena is your first post

.

What?

You were acting as if record in WWE today somehow trump anything that happened back then.

No, but if the numbers are higher, somebody's better than somebody.

Seeing how he lost to Rock by a massive landslide, no. Now shush and start arguing for the person that matters here John Cena.

I've been arguing Cena all along. Not seen it?

This isn't for title's though, something your not admitting. Their match at Mania wasn't for any title. This has nothing to do with anything besides a one night tournament in which Rock has the clear advantage.

I NEVER SAID IT WAS FOR A TITLE DID I? What I'm saying is that fight of the wrestler comes into play and when it all boils down to it, Cena can, should and will come out on top.

You mean where he got his ass kicked for about twenty minutes and then made a comeback Hogan style and barely survived? Yeah, but Cena has beaten Brock, Rock has beaten Cena, Brock has beaten Rock. It really all cancels each other out for now.

Wait, you said he was nothing like Hogan? He wasn't on a Hogan level, but comparing him to Hogan? Strange...

If you really want to bash Bull for no reason go back to the WZCW section.

I do that enough. It's fun.

There is nothing more that needs to be said, go back and read Echelon's simple post on why Rock should win this. The only thing left to do is dissect your idiotic posts so that you will eventually learn why you are so wrong.

I've read Ech's post. I've taken it in and I still fight my cause. My posts aren't idiotic, they're definitely above yours 'cos you've barely done anything here to help the Rock apart from look like a guy with an attitude. I think Cena should adjust that for you.

Still waiting on the real Cena supporters to show up, I've been arguing with the Cenation but I want to fight the Chain gang. Oh well.

You've been arguing with one guy. That is that for now. Carry on replying to me if you wanna, I can go all day. I'm like Cena!

 

[Tastycles]

I genuinely have no idea which way to vote. My gut is telling me Cena, but I can't decide. I'm going to ride it out a bit.

Some things I think are worth considering:

The Rock has been "The Man"

We saw this argument against Taker, and it was absolutely correct. In the context of The Rock though, it isn't. The Rock was second in line to Austin, but headlined plenty of PPVs without him. In 2000, the company went a year with The Rock at the helm and was very successful commercially, and in the eyes of myself and disgraced moderator Lord Sidious, creatively too.

The Rock at WrestleMania

Yes he won, but as a returning hero. There's no way Hogan would have been going over main eventers in 2005, that's why he left, but for the comeback he won. Cena is more professional than Shawn Michaels, but I don't think Rock's win should be seen as a true reflection of his career any more than losing to Floyd Mayweather is of Big Show's.

Title reigns in context

I'm at work, so I can't get the precise figures, but while it's true to say Rock's reigns came in a time of shorter reigns, it's important to note that his average reign is similar to that of Undertaker's and Foley's, but significantly worse than Triple H, Austin, Angle etc. in the same period. This implies he didn't stand above the class as a champion. Cena on the other hand has, and I think Triple H's last big run with the title in 2008 is the only thing close to Cena's long term reigns. He's the only person to have held the title for longer than a year since 1989. That's important.

Cena rode the storm better

This is one that I'll struggle to illustrate without youtube, but bear with me. When Rocky Maivia debuted, he was a face, acted like a face, wrestled like a face and looked like a face. Significant parts of the crowd booed him, and he eventually had to be repackaged. He's never looked back since, but compare and contrast to Cena.

Cena is a face, acts like a face, wrestles like a face and looks like a face. Significant parts of the crowd boo him, but rather than being repackaged he has ridden the storm and started to bring people round. He is of strong enough resolve that he has managed to make the fact he's not everyone's cup of tea a feature. Rocky Maivia never addressed it and had to be saved. In a similar pressure situation, Cena thrived, where Rock had to be rebooted.

Mic Skills

Cena showed in his feud with The Rock that he's not as inferior as people made out. However, if you think The Rock is a walking catchphrase book, you're missing the point. Yes, he always goes back to that, but the only reason Cena doesn't use them is because the crowd don't join in with that thing any more. It's highly unlikely that the wrestlers from the 90s where the only ones in history to rely on catchphrases by fluke don't you? Jericho was around then and he never eeeeeeever uses his catchphrases now. It's about knowing what the audiences want and delivering it. Rock does exactly that.

 

[FlexAmerican Dynamite]

No, the previous rounds Rock may have won big, but the past two matter. Cena may have the disadvantage, like I've said. But as you failed to quote in your entire reply, I mentioned that he's survived a 60 Minute Iron-Man Match, he has an unblemished I Quit record (Rock does, but he's only been in one, not to mention that almost right after, he lost in that awful Empty Arena match) & he can go better than pretty much anyone (Bar Punk?) in the WWE today.

This isn't a street fight type match, Rock doesn't need to break Cena's will to win, he's already proven he can beat him by other means.

No, but he was sure pointing things out. Nothing here is irrelevant, fuck. Everything that could go towards arguing which man might is relevant here

.

Titles are irrelevant in this, case closed.

.

What?

I know it takes you a while to comprehend some things, go back and re-read and I'm sure you'll get it eventually.

No, but if the numbers are higher, somebody's better than somebody.

Titles are irrelevant here, case closed.

I've been arguing Cena all along. Not seen it?

Oh I've seen it, had to read it, and replied to it. But there you were arguing for an already fallen Lou Thesz.

I NEVER SAID IT WAS FOR A TITLE DID I? What I'm saying is that fight of the wrestler comes into play and when it all boils down to it, Cena can, should and will come out on top.

To bad he's already lost to Rock when he was at full energy, I can't imagine how badly he would lose after being worn down by Hogan and Taker.

Wait, you said he was nothing like Hogan? He wasn't on a Hogan level, but comparing him to Hogan? Strange...

Never said he was nothing like Hogan, I said he did a Hogan style thing.

I do that enough. It's fun.

It's still something that has made you look like an ass in the discussion thread for quite some time now.

I've read Ech's post. I've taken it in and I still fight my cause. My posts aren't idiotic, they're definitely above yours 'cos you've barely done anything here to help the Rock apart from look like a guy with an attitude. I think Cena should adjust that for you.

Like I said before there is nothing left to say on the part of the Rock. I'm only dissecting your once again idiotic posts for the post count and the fact that I'm finding it a little bit fun now. Oh and very clever what you did at the end there

You've been arguing with one guy. That is that for now. Carry on replying to me if you wanna, I can go all day. I'm like Cena!

I'm only doing to this because I really want to see if you can continue believing the garbage you are typing.

 

[Johnny Scumm]

Titles are irrelevant in this, case closed.

I suggest you tell that to Tastycles, because he's just gone and mentioned them a whole load more. They matter, if you don't know this, you're an idiot.

I know it takes you a while to comprehend some things, go back and re-read and I'm sure you'll get it eventually.

I've read it, I comprehend, I see you don't.

Titles are irrelevant here, case closed.

You only say they're irrelevant, but everyone will beg to differ.

To bad he's already lost to Rock when he was at full energy, I can't imagine how badly he would lose after being worn down by Hogan and Taker.

You can say the same thing about Rock after facing Sting & Thesz, it's a double edged sword. Rock might have the 60 point advantage, but Cena has the endurance advantage. You still are yet to even consider the Iron Man/I Quit things I've mentioned. Found something you can't argue against I see.

Never said he was nothing like Hogan, I said he did a Hogan style thing.

Yup and if Hogan does it, Cena could do it all night long, especially if he's beaten Hogan in the night before.

Like I said before there is nothing left to say on the part of the Rock. I'm only dissecting your once again idiotic posts for the post count and the fact that I'm finding it a little bit fun now. Oh and very clever what you did at the end there

Well find something to say on Rock because now you're getting bland. Here guys, have a couple of promos to take a look at. One is a couple of minutes long from Cena, the other drags on continuously and it's made by The Rock.

[YOUTUBE]xXkb79Psr3U[/YOUTUBE]

[YOUTUBE]bkSg6oI3ERI[/YOUTUBE]

Cena Rap & Rock Concert. A promo where Cena captures everything in a nice little promo of a couple of minutes, or Rocky dragging himself ou, only capturing people when he says "IF YOU SMELL".

I'm only doing to this because I really want to see if you can continue believing the garbage you are typing.

Garbage? I'm sorry, but you've missed out a lot of things that I've actually said.

Actually, let me leave you with these;

[YOUTUBE]lp_tU-Zfbgo[/YOUTUBE]

[YOUTUBE]tL65vWfBIys[/YOUTUBE]

Have some proof of Mr John Cena's endurance.

 

[Mr. Artistic guy]

I suggest you tell that to Tastycles, because he's just gone and mentioned them a whole load more. They matter, if you don't know this, you're an idiot.

Hoping that a better debater is going to help you're cause. Brave...

You only say they're irrelevant, but everyone will beg to differ.

Titles are relevant in a way and would be a lot more relevant if people would stop forgetting a very important thing. The Rock and Cena don't have comparable careers. The Rock stopped wrestling after a mere short 6/7 years of continuous working. Cena has been going on TV for a decade now. Both guys hit the big time about three years after they debuted, Rocky probably a bit sooner, but Cena has another three or so years over The Rock in career time where he could gain titles. It simply isn't an adequate way to compare the two men.

You can say the same thing about Rock after facing Sting & Thesz, it's a double edged sword. Rock might have the 60 point advantage, but Cena has the endurance advantage. You still are yet to even consider the Iron Man/I Quit things I've mentioned. Found something you can't argue against I see.

You take margin of victory into account in this tournament, and that means The Rock is fresher. He's already beaten Cena, in Cena's own prime, when both men were at even levels of stamina and energy. Logic says that this match will be easier for him than the last one they had. I want you to try to refute that.

Yup and if Hogan does it, Cena could do it all night long, especially if he's beaten Hogan in the night before.

Except history and evidence dictates that he could simply just take all that and lose in half an hour when the pressure is on.

Well find something to say on Rock because now you're getting bland. Here guys, have a couple of promos to take a look at. One is a couple of minutes long from Cena, the other drags on continuously and it's made by The Rock.

I reeaaaallly don't think promos is a route you want to traverse when you're in an argument including The Rock.

Cena Rap & Rock Concert. A promo where Cena captures everything in a nice little promo of a couple of minutes

That obvious shows a deficiency on Cena's part, when he could have 'dragged out' him promo for a better overall reaction as The Rock did, instead condensing it all into a couple of minutes and clearly losing the better reaction battle later in the night when Rock trounced him.

[/quote], or Rocky dragging himself out, only capturing people when he says "IF YOU SMELL".[/quote]

"only capturing people when he says "IF YOU SMELL". - That's not even true.

What you just tried to do is pick a couple of promos that contrasted how John Cena is better than The Rock on the mic, and you could not have failed more miserably. I've mentioned this before but, simply put, The Rock did his job better than Cena did his. As a face, the crowd were united behind The Rock and all reacted massively to whatever it was he did.

[YOUTUBE]WxXwLFPV7dY[/YOUTUBE] [YOUTUBE]WGlVWzQqx4w&feature=related[/YOUTUBE]

As a heel, they booed him in the nation,

[YOUTUBE]E70P76pryFA&feature=related[/YOUTUBE]

they booed him in the corporation,

[YOUTUBE]HZ4eYh9rJ70[/YOUTUBE]

they booed him when he returned as Holly wood Rock

[YOUTUBE]I4htcn-tB4A[/YOUTUBE]

In essence, he was exceptional at doing his job, heel or face he could get the crowd to boo or cheer LOUD accordingly. That's how you post videos that support you're argument. You don't post two very good promos by two different people and try to sanctify one whilst belittling the other, when anybody who listens to them can clearly tell that, if anything, The Rock's clearly has people reacting better.

Whether YOU think one is better than the other, it's the opinion of the masses, the sound of the people who react and the majority opinion upon that person's ability. For The Rock, you cannot question his ability. For Cena, I would say, if he's as good as people want him to be then why can't he do his job as a face and get a greater proportion of the audience to cheer for him.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I4htcn-tB4AGarbage? I'm sorry, but you've missed out a lot of things that I've actually said.

Unfortunately I read it all. Shoddy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I4htcn-tB4AActually, let me leave you with these;

[YOUTUBE]lp_tU-Zfbgo[/YOUTUBE]

[YOUTUBE]tL65vWfBIys[/YOUTUBE]

Have some proof of Mr John Cena's endurance.

Have some proof of his lack thereof:

[YOUTUBE]KCeRfddaDAE[/YOUTUBE]

[YOUTUBE]NH0HiC4znTo&feature=related[/YOUTUBE]

[YOUTUBE]fSDPF_BAhGk[/YOUTUBE]

And lastly, the reason why The Rock doesn't get the same kind of flack that guys like Edge and Cena do for winning multiple world titles in a short space of time, is in a large part because quite simply people enjoyed those reigns. Like when you're doing something fun and the time flies, you don't notice because you're too busy enjoying what you're doing.

The same then clearly can't be said of other guys. Some of their reigns may have been means to an end. For the Rock, good booking and good character meant people weren't looking through the microscope at how often the title changed hands. And let's not even go into the fact that this is clearly a less competitive era in the world title picture.

 

[Matt1231230]

Just a few points I'd like to make:

Titles ARE important, as this is a CHAMPIONSHIP final match of a tournament, so is, arguably, on the same level as winning a title. Cena dominated with the title, his year-long reign being the proof of that, so he has plenty of experience when it comes to the important title matches. Rock has won the world title a few times, but he never had a run where he was as dominant and successful as Cena.

Also, as this is a tournament, the one-off match at WM28 shouldn't have much importance here. Rock's win was neccessary to re-establish himself in his comeback, but this match should be between The Rock and John Cena when they're both full-time main-event stars. In this scenario, I couldn't see "SuperCena" losing, and I would bet that Vince would put Cena over Rock in these circumstances.

You may like Rock more than Cena, but if WWE had a tournament like this, Cena would win anyday

 

[Little Jerry Lawler]

Who do and or did have between 2004-present that could/can carry the company like Cena? Edge no, orton no so who. Realize the calibur of talent he was losing to Austin Hof'er, HHH future Hof'er, Mankind future hof'er, Angle future hof'er, lesnar future hof'er. The Rock has beaten more stars than Cena ever will mind you Rock beat Cena at WM with a Cena in his prime and Rock out of his prime and outshined him.

Cena's beaten Lesnar, Angle, HBK, HHH, Edge, Orton, Jericho, Undertaker, and lesser stars in Big Show and Mysterio.

I don't see how you could debate who's better in the ring cena does the same exact moves you must not remember Rock's Rocky Miavia gimmick it showed his true wrestling ability. Even when Rock was wrestling Angle he was able to show off his moves. Cena does the same damn shit match after match gets his ass whooped all match and at the end pulls out the same 4 moves to win shoulder block, spinning back drop, five knuckle shuffle, to AA or STF.

You really want to pull that out don't you? I sure have seen a whole lot of Rock's matches end in a spinebuster, People's Elbow, a counter of the Rock Bottom, then a Rock Bottom a few minutes later.

I never was insinuating that Rock put over Austin, HHH, or Taker. And you just said that Rock put over 3 future hof'ers. And I won't give Cena credit for putting Orton over just for the simple fact Orton was in evolution and was being put over by HHH, Flair, and Benoit Orton was already over when he got to Cena.

Orton got suspended in 2006 and I believe again in 2007 and needed to be put over as a major heel again and taking out HBK and Dusty Rhodes wasn't going to accomplish that alone. John Cena put him over as a major heel in 2007 with their feud which included Orton punting Cena's dad.

Youtube Cenas return after neck surgery and Rocks Return back in 2001 during the Alliance vs. WWE storyline and tell me what pop was louder. Also Youtube Rocks promos between 2000-2002 and Cena's promo between 2004-present and not one of them will be better than Rock's. Youtube can validate a lot when it comes to wrestling go find Rock's greatest match and Cena's greatest match and you will see Rock is a better wrestler. Going by these 2 wrestlers in their prime Rock is superior enough said.

Youtube only knows five moves.

 

[AwesomeRko]

Rock 100% takes this. An out of his prime Rock just beat Cena in this exact match at this exact arena on the grandest stage of them all.

1. Rock draws more than Cena. The year 2000, in which Austin was out and Rock was the face of the company was the WWe's most succesful commercial year, from that point on he remained the companys number one guy even usurpoing Austin in popularity. Cena's time as top guy has seen viewershhip dwindle to represent a shadow of WWE's former popularity. It's no coincidence that Rock's return to singles action yielded the highest ever WM PPV buyrate. Rock is not only over with the majority of current WWE viewesr but also attracts a crazy amount of former AE fans, who's interest in WM 28 combined with his unmatchable celebrity profile made it the massive draw that it was.

2. Rock has an unmatched record in these big-style matches. He has beaten Austin, Hogan and Cena already, three of the biggest icons in the sport. Cena by contrast choked on the grandest state of them all when faced by a fellow icon in the Rock. Until Cena has beaten Austin or Hogan his mettle compared to the icons of the past remains unproven.

3. It's in Miami, the Rock's hometown. It is not a Wrestlemania so a masisve influx of fans from across the globe will not balance out a crowd that will be massively pro-Rock. WWE risks alienating a wide spectrum of both current and returning AE fans taking an interest in this match by making a tired super-Cena who has had to claw his way through the tournament go over a relatively fresh Rock.

4. Rock achieved unparalled success in a 5 year period in a time that was far more competive than what Cena has had to deal with. In Rock's prime you had Austin, HHH, Foley, Taker, Angle and Y2J around all competing for the one world title, which was the be all and end all of the program. Throughout Cena's era there has of course still been some stellar talent the likes of Orton, Edge, Batista, HHH, Y2J (in short stints) and HBK. Yet this has been nullified by the brand split in which talent is diluted and divided into pursuing two seperate championships, ensuring that the world title picture as a whole is less competitive and the quality and dpeth of challengers is weakened. Cena would not have enjoyed such prevalent or numerous world title runs if not for the brand split, Rock by contrast won a recowd number of title in a short stint with everyone within a higher quality roster chasing the same title.

 

[Smooth Sexual Chocolate]

An out of his prime Rock just beat Cena in this exact match at this exact arena on the grandest stage of them all.

What more really needs to be said here, an out of prime Rock just went over a prime Cena not 3 months ago, just imagine what a prime Rocky would do. You know, a non "via satellite" Rock who doesn't get "gassed" during matches.

So again, if an "out of shape", "gassed" Rocky goes over Cena, just image what The Rock does to Cena in his prime. I'll tell you what he does, he wins, he goes over, and just maybe he tosses Cena a bone if they ever compete in a third match, ala Austin/Rock.

Easy win for The Rock here.

 

[Uncle Sam]

I wore dog tags during the Rock/Cena match at WrestleMania. Ask Tastycles. How is that relevant? No idea.

I think we're in danger of losing sight of on simple fact: The Rock beat John Cena, clean, one-two-three, in the middle of the ring. An 'out of shape', movie star Rock wrestling his first match in nearly a decade beat a John Cena who'd just had one of the best years of his illustrious career.

Sorry I don't have anything particularly shocking or revelatory or complex to say. I think it's really that simple.

 

[Benson]

And we know why. Cena's arrogance cost him the match. He let his personal hatred get in the way of making sure he was not victorious. In a twist of sweet delicious irony that was never brought up by anyone in the WWE, it was Cena's inability to Rise Above in this one that cost him. Cena had the match won.


Wrestling his first match in nearly a decade? Survivor Series never happened? Or are singles matches the only type of wrestling matches that count now?

And third, in the Rock's prime, we've seen him lose to more inferior talents than John Cena. Cena's more than capable of hanging with The Rock, and certainly capable of beating him.

 

[FlexAmerican Dynamite]

Yeah Brock Goldberg basically summed up everything I needed to say when it comes to that idiotic response of Johnny Scumm and posters above are only restating the obvious. There is nothing you can say that's really relevant the a one night tournament in which John Cena will beat the Rock, simple as that.

Vote Rock.

 

[Little Jerry Lawler]

So I'm supposed to take one match at Wrestlemania 28 and let that be my reasoning as to why Rock would beat Cena? Not buying it for a solitary second. Let me address something AwesomeRko has said.

Rock achieved unparalled success in a 5 year period in a time that was far more competive than what Cena has had to deal with. In Rock's prime you had Austin, HHH, Foley, Taker, Angle and Y2J around all competing for the one world title, which was the be all and end all of the program. Throughout Cena's era there has of course still been some stellar talent the likes of Orton, Edge, Batista, HHH, Y2J (in short stints) and HBK. Yet this has been nullified by the brand split in which talent is diluted and divided into pursuing two seperate championships, ensuring that the world title picture as a whole is less competitive and the quality and dpeth of challengers is weakened. Cena would not have enjoyed such prevalent or numerous world title runs if not for the brand split, Rock by contrast won a recowd number of title in a short stint with everyone within a higher quality roster chasing the same title.

During the majority of the Rock's first three title reigns, Undertaker was off being crazy and some shit, and HHH wasn't at the level that he would be the next year so basically it was Austin, Rock, and Mankind.

The next two Rock title reigns came at the expense of HHH. Undertaker was injured for most of the time, Austin wasn't there, and HHH retired Mick Foley so it was just Rock and Hunter. Angle wasn't a big deal yet and was a midcarder in 2002 when Rock won his last title.

I don't see why it's ludicrous at the thought of Cena beating Rock. The Rock lost a lot in his prime. He didn't get the job done against Austin the first two times they've faced at Wrestlemania. He couldn't get the job done against HHH at Wrestlemania. The only times other than Cena that he came through on the biggest stage was beating an almost 50 year Hogan and an Austin who was out the door. I've seen Cena make HHH and HBK tap out in consecutive Wrestlemanias. It's not a crime to think that Cena would come out on top against Rocky and I'm not using what happened two months ago to sway my opinion.

 

[Benson]

You give Cena three times to face the Rock and I'd bet he'd beat him once too.

 

[Uncle Sam]

And we know why. Cena's arrogance cost him the match. He let his personal hatred get in the way of making sure he was not victorious. In a twist of sweet delicious irony that was never brought up by anyone in the WWE, it was Cena's inability to Rise Above in this one that cost him. Cena had the match won.

That's one way to frame it. The Triple H way, really - the guy loses to The Undertaker but, because The Undertaker gets beaten up, Undertaker's the one that has to ask for a rematch.

I prefer to view it as Cena doing a Jeff Jarrett and getting the kitchen sink. Cena wasn't toying with The Rock; Cena wasn't fucking around with a ring-rusted veteran; Cena was trying to win the match. Cena put Rock in the STF, Rock powered out. Cena hit Rock with the AA, Rock kicked out. In a desperate attempt to finish off an apparently invulnerable opponent, Cena reached down deep, scraped the bottom of that barrell, and went for the people's elbow. Unfortunately for him, The Rock popped up, hit the rock bottom and that's all she wrote.

Wrestling his first match in nearly a decade? Survivor Series never happened? Or are singles matches the only type of wrestling matches that count now?

For some reason, ten minutes of action in a tag team match five months before seemed fit to exclude. I apologise and I'll revise my statement:

A Rock who ended his eight year wrestling hiatus to wrestle one match five months prior defeated a John Cena having one of the best years in his career.

And third, in the Rock's prime, we've seen him lose to more inferior talents than John Cena. Cena's more than capable of hanging with The Rock, and certainly capable of beating him.

I think we'll agree that the likes of Carlito, Rob Van Dam and even, God love 'im, CM Punk aren't on The Rock's level, but I won't hold that against Cena. Everybody has losses, most have embarassing losses, but comparing lists - particularly between these two - isn't going to get us anywhere. Rock and Cena faced in a one on one match. Perhaps Rock should have adopted Carlito's style, or Cena should have started chanelling Mankind. It was hard fought, but The Rock won.

 

[AwesomeRko]

So I'm supposed to take one match at Wrestlemania 28 and let that be my reasoning as to why Rock would beat Cena? Not buying it for a solitary second. Let me address something AwesomeRko has said.



During the majority of the Rock's first three title reigns, Undertaker was off being crazy and some shit, and HHH wasn't at the level that he would be the next year so basically it was Austin, Rock, and Mankind.

The next two Rock title reigns came at the expense of HHH. Undertaker was injured for most of the time, Austin wasn't there, and HHH retired Mick Foley so it was just Rock and Hunter. Angle wasn't a big deal yet and was a midcarder in 2002 when Rock won his last title.

I don't see why it's ludicrous at the thought of Cena beating Rock. The Rock lost a lot in his prime. He didn't get the job done against Austin the first two times they've faced at Wrestlemania. He couldn't get the job done against HHH at Wrestlemania. The only times other than Cena that he came through on the biggest stage was beating an almost 50 year Hogan and an Austin who was out the door. I've seen Cena make HHH and HBK tap out in consecutive Wrestlemanias. It's not a crime to think that Cena would come out on top against Rocky and I'm not using what happened two months ago to sway my opinion.

It's not inconceivable that Cena would beat Rock at all, Jeff Hardy and Hurricane did, it's just unlikely in a match of this magnitude. The WM 28 showdown does matter in the sense that it is the only real-life example of the two in-ring together as opponents.

It doesn't comprehensively rule out Cena picking up the victory over Rock in his prime, Cena dominated much of the match at 28 and it can be argued that it was his own arrogance that cost him the victory, yet it must be assumed that 2000 Rock would have a lot more to offer than the current incarnation. A version which already gave Cena all he could handle. It therefore is an important if not definitive variable in suggesting that Rock from 99-2002 would put Cena away in a match of this significance.

I would debate that both Austin in 98/99 and HHH in 2000 (when he was probably at his peak as a villain), were bigger and more dangerous adversaries than any Cena has contended with for the championship. The presence of three guys with that kind of talent and popularity/notoriety in Hunter's case at the same time is pretty unprecedented and may never happen again. While the world title scene therefore may not have been crowded, the quality of challengers Rock faced more than compensated for this.

I agree it's certainly not a crime to think that Cena could take this, I just think that given the variables of popularity, talent (mic/in-ring), differences in era and experience in 'icon vs icon', type matches that Rock would win this the majority of the time.

 

[Benson]

I prefer to view it as Cena doing a Jeff Jarrett and getting the kitchen sink. Cena wasn't toying with The Rock; Cena wasn't fucking around with a ring-rusted veteran; Cena was trying to win the match.

He gave The Rock a good 45 seconds to recover while he decided to mock the Rock, instead of focusing on the finish. He believed the Rock was down and out and toyed with him, doing his own finishing move in a half-assed manner, instead of remaining focused. What was stopping Cena from reapplying the STF on an exhausted Rock, or hitting an AA?
Nothing. He wanted to humiliate the Rock. He got cocky. He took it too lightly.

A Rock who ended his eight year wrestling hiatus to wrestle one match five months prior defeated a John Cena having one of the best years in his career.

Cena lost to Punk twice, lost to Miz at Wrestlemania, feuded with Miz two months after, had an abysmal feud with Del Rio, was an afterthought at Survivor Series, didn't even make the card at TLC, wrestled Kane to a No Contest at the Rumble, before gaining a victory. His first actual PPV since beating Del Rio in October, I believe of 2011. How is that the best year of his career? How is that, in ANY way, better than 2007 or 2010?

And Carlito and Van Dam beat Cena before he was in his prime. Rock lost to Hurricane Helms in his prime.

 

[ThUgNiF1c3nT]

During the majority of the Rock's first three title reigns, Undertaker was off being crazy and some shit, and HHH wasn't at the level that he would be the next year so basically it was Austin, Rock, and Mankind.

Ok if you say that from The end of the Summer of 1999 to WM 2001 The Rock was the guy to carry the company because Austin was gone by survivor series and Rock and Foley were the guys with the championship.

The next two Rock title reigns came at the expense of HHH. Undertaker was injured for most of the time, Austin wasn't there, and HHH retired Mick Foley so it was just Rock and Hunter. Angle wasn't a big deal yet and was a midcarder in 2002 when Rock won his last title.

Okay The Rock put over Angle and The Rock with the help of Vinny Mac and the McMahon/Helmsley Regime helped put HHH over into the Main Event picture.

I don't see why it's ludicrous at the thought of Cena beating Rock. The Rock lost a lot in his prime. He didn't get the job done against Austin the first two times they've faced at Wrestlemania. He couldn't get the job done against HHH at Wrestlemania. The only times other than Cena that he came through on the biggest stage was beating an almost 50 year Hogan and an Austin who was out the door. I've seen Cena make HHH and HBK tap out in consecutive Wrestlemanias. It's not a crime to think that Cena would come out on top against Rocky and I'm not using what happened two months ago to sway my opinion.

I don't think its ludicrous to think that Cena can beat Rock. Notice Rock vs. Austin only went over clean 1 match and that was WM 19. You say he could'nt get the job done vs. HHH at WM 16 uhhh that was definitly a Fatal 4 Way with a McMahon in every corner and Rock got screwed it wasnt a clean finish. Rock also has beaten Austin in his prime b4 he retired ie. Survivor Series 2001. Also on RAW after the deadly games tourney in 1998 the Rock beat Austin for the WWE Championship. Theres more times than that but I didn't feel like posting all that shit. Also I want to add before HHH became a main eventer The Rock was busy kicking his ass all over the place when they were feuding for the Intercontinental Championship. I also want to note March 31, 1997 The Rock defeated Bret Hart to retain his Intercontinental Championship. He also defeated the British Bulldog, Farooq, Owen Hart, Edge, Lesnar, and Flair. Those who say he didn't beat Lesnar go look up August 10, 2002 Triple Threat Match for the Undisputed Championship between HHH, Lesnar, and Rock. So still Rock has faced off against more bonafide stars than Cena.

 

[ThUgNiF1c3nT]

I just want to add to all this shit about Cena and The Rock while Rock was beating stars on his rise to the top Cena was beating Rene Dupree, Chris Masters, Carlito, Shelton Benjamin, and Kenzio Suzuki. So that shit about Cena beating real talent get the fuck outta here go to www.onlineworldofwrestling.com to view The Rock and John Cena's full career match by match and you tell me who has had a more impressive career by whom they have beat. I also would like to add series between Rock & Brock is 2-1 in favor of The Rock.

 

[PlayTheGame]

I've read through a few posts, there's decent arguments by both sides, and here's my opinion:

The interesting thing about the WZT is that we get to see matchups that've never happened before, and it's our task to speculate on the outcomes of said matches. Whether it's good or bad, the fact that we've never seen some or most of these matches charges us with the task to make tough decisions and decide who'll win each contest. However, in this match, we have a different case. We just saw this match a couple of months ago in the exact same stadium. And the Rock won. Instead of us going around in circles arguing certain points that are all based on opinion and how you personally decide to spin the facts, guess what: this match took place already, and the Rock won.

If that's not enough for you, then fine. But it's enough for me. You know why? Because there are even more elements to this that convince me The Rock wins. Besides the definitive fact that the Rock has already won this exact match, guess what: the WZT stipulates that in each contest, guys are in their primes. When the Rock beat Cena, he wasn't in his prime. In fact, he hasn't been in his wrestling prime for nearly a decade. Cena is either currently in his prime, or far less removed from it in comparison than the Rock is (maybe just a couple of years out of it). So a far less prime Rock beat Cena closer to his prime. Logically, then, a prime Rock would defeat a prime Cena even more convincingly than what we saw happen on April 1, 2012. If that's not enough, throw in the fact that based on WZT rules described in the opening post of this thread, Cena's coming into this fight more exhausted, tired, and beat up than the Rock. So on top of the Rock's advantage, he's even more fresher than Cena coming into the contest.

A popular pro-Cena argument I've seen is that he's a 10-time WWE Champion (12 total world titles) to Rock's 7 WWE Championships (9 total world titles). While a decent argument, here's how it can be addressed from a pro-Rock stance. I don't think many people would argue that the level of competition that Rock faced in the WWE (when talent was at an all-time high) FAR surpasses the current talent that John Cena faces in the WWE today. Thus, you could argue that Rock's title count is actually more impressive when you look at the time period in which they occurred compared to Cena's. Let's make an NBA comparison to further illustrate my point. Bill Russell won 11 NBA titles. Yes, impressive. But I think most people who know something about basketball would hold that MJ's 6 titles in the 90's are more impressive than Russell's 11 due to the competition of both eras. The same kind of reasoning can be applied to Rock & Cena's title counts.

Further, take a look at the names that Rock defeated for his WWE titles: Mick Foley (3 times), Triple H (2 times), Kurt Angle, & Undertaker (top names in WWE history). Who finally beat him each of those times for his title? Mick Foley (2 times), Stone Cold Steve Austin (2 times), Triple H, Kurt Angle, & Brock Lesnar (again, top names in WWE history). In comparison, take a look at the names that Cena defeated for his WWE titles: JBL, Edge (2 times), Randy Orton (2 times), Batista, Sheamus, The Miz, Rey Mysterio, Alberto Del Rio (Besides Orton, Batista, and maybe Edge, not stellar names, and the list as a whole pales in comparison to Rock's list). Now let's take a look at who beat Cena for his title each time: Edge, RVD, (vacated), Randy Orton, Sheamus (2 times), Batista, CM Punk, Alberto Del Rio (2 times) (yet again, not top names overall, and Rock's list again is clearly much more impressive).

Winner: The Rock

 

[dakikko049]

WHY ARE PEOPLE ARGUING?? THIS IS A GAME!!

In my opinion, just because it would sicken me to see Cena beat The Rock and win this tournament, and because it's at Miami Florida, a place where the Rock just beat Cena, I'm gonna say the Rock wins.

 

[Little Jerry Lawler]

I just want to add to all this shit about Cena and The Rock while Rock was beating stars on his rise to the top Cena was beating Rene Dupree, Chris Masters, Carlito, Shelton Benjamin, and Kenzio Suzuki. So that shit about Cena beating real talent get the fuck outta here go to www.onlineworldofwrestling.com to view The Rock and John Cena's full career match by match and you tell me who has had a more impressive career by whom they have beat. I also would like to add series between Rock & Brock is 2-1 in favor of The Rock.

What in the blue hell are you talking about?

1. You say that Rock was beating stars on his rise to the top? For arguments sake, let's say his rise to the top was complete when he won his first world title. The following are a list of the guys he has pinned in 1998:

Ahmed Johnson, Tom Brandi, Faarooq, Vader, HHH, Kane, D-Lo Brown, Mark Henry, Big Boss Man, and Ken Shamrock. Quite the murderer's row there.

2. You must have been thinking about something else with your last sentence. Rock and Brock faced once. Brock beat him.

 

[Benson]

I literally spent 15 minutes trying to find the other times that Rock faced Lesnar before I realized this guy has no idea what he's talking about.

 

[ThUgNiF1c3nT]

I literally spent 15 minutes trying to find the other times that Rock faced Lesnar before I realized this guy has no idea what he's talking about.

Your a ****** because I told you the site to go to and the dates so if your not smart enough to type in the website and go look for yourself then that's your problem Rock beat him in Austraila while on tour and at a Smackdown taping a few weeks prior to losing the title at SS.