Candice Michelle improving...

[Shadowmancer]

Actually Victoria is Held back to an extent by a bad knee. Reportedly, she wanted time off so she could rest up a bit this was just before the push she got when she was ticking names off of that list. This reportedly got up the noses of some of the Bookers or someone in a position of power so they stopped the push. Actually WWE has a lot of Women that can wrestle, but when compared to the numbers of Divas that "Can't Wrestle" it is large, Im with Echelon in saying that they do not use the womens talent they have got look at some of the matches of Jillian Hall, Trinity and Mickie James they can all Wrestle. But I have know idea how this went from a thread based around one diva in particular to a discussion about the state of Womens Wrestling in the WWE.

 

[Bernkastel]

I can't say I blame people for wanting to get off track with this issue because its been an on going problem for years now. And dispite this topic looking really small and miniscul on the surface, there happens to be many issues underneth, that can get people frustrated.

As far as the thread about Candice, I don't know what else can be said, the girl obviously wants to work so I say let her work. But I can sympathize with the people who feel that Canice is just going to bale or give up, because we've all seen it before. And I know we can use Trish as a model, but I'll be honest, Trish had it much easier when she was a rookie than Candice does now. Why? Because there was a multitude of excellent talent in WWE at the time, and Trish was able to learn quickly from them. Now, most of those women are gone, replaced with a whole new set of women who IMO are capable of breathing new life into the division, but now it just seems that WWE is placing more of an empahsis on a womans body, and grading them on their looks and not talent. The womens division is in such a bad position right now, that I read on the internet that many great female wrestlers on the indy circuit no longer want to go to WWE because of the sad state the womens divison has become. With that being said, I hope Candice stays true to herself and really makes an effort, because the division needs the help.

 

[arthur1987899]

I recently saw a heat match when candice beat victoria and i have to say i was impressed with candice. She is improving a lot in the ring and in a couple or few months she could be the next trish stratus as a woman who comes in as a model and transformed into a wrestler. I would say by next wrestlemania candice will be the next womens champion.

 

[Bernkastel]

^ Possibly, but honestly I would have to say no, just because her improvment rate is so slow, if she were to somehow find a way to improve herself faster, then I would say its likely that she could be in the running for the title for next year.

 

[hatehabsforever]

I think we all went a little off topic here because several people have stated, myself included, that any discussion of whether or not Candice is improving is null and void because due to the current state of the Women's "Division" of the WWE, her wrestling skills, or lack thereof, are not the issue.

I am glad she is trying to improve, but I see little tangible improvement in her. She still looks great, but in my opinion, she can train for as long as she wants with whoever she wants, and you'll never make a wrestler out of Candice. And unfortunately, the same can be said about almost the entire division from all three brands. They are models/actresses first and foremost and as such will never be plausible wrestlers.

Melina, Mickie James, Victoria, possibly Trinity and Jillian, and that's it. How can you have a division with only 5 plausible people in it? And how can you take it seriously when the title is being contended for in a paddle on a pole match, for example.

Leave the women's division and accept it for what it is- filler time, eye candy. I don't see this changing any time soon.

 

[SG Killmer]

I do agree that Candice is improving. I would also like to see Ashley in some more matches since the last one she had at Wrestlemanina was really bad and boring.

 

[Bernkastel]

^ Wow you just contridicted yourself big time there, I for one don't want to see Ashley compete inside a ring until she at least learns the basics, because its hard for her to improve when she doesn't really have a foundation of basic wrestling skills. I place Candice in another category, because she at least is trying to learn the basics, but for now I think Ashley should just stick to managing. Ashley trying to wrestle would be like someone trying to do calculus without learning Algebra first.

 

[tea123]

bring Vince Devils back. THEY ROCK!!!!

 

[emceelokey]

I hate Candice. She has a nasty meat face from all of that plactic surgery and in the end she won't really add anything substantial to wrestling.

Candice is doing her job though and someone is paying her to do it and she does it so it's not her fault.

I just don't like the fact that there are women that are actually trained and have already have put in work and have never seen light on WWE tv but some chick that does a superbowl commercial automatically gets a bye on having to be properly trained on everything to do with wrestling because of her value due to controversy. Of course it was a good idea back then but now what's the point of having her.

I'm sorry but I just don't like it when they get the job based on their looks and not wrestling talent and then they expect them to wrestle with no previous wrestling training. Or even knowlege of the business. I think dues should be paid before getting the job and not after.

 

[Moneymaker_90]

I hate Candice. She has a nasty meat face from all of that plactic surgery and in the end she won't really add anything substantial to wrestling.

Candice is doing her job though and someone is paying her to do it and she does it so it's not her fault.

I just don't like the fact that there are women that are actually trained and have already have put in work and have never seen light on WWE tv but some chick that does a superbowl commercial automatically gets a bye on having to be properly trained on everything to do with wrestling because of her value due to controversy. Of course it was a good idea back then but now what's the point of having her.

I'm sorry but I just don't like it when they get the job based on their looks and not wrestling talent and then they expect them to wrestle with no previous wrestling training. Or even knowlege of the business. I think dues should be paid before getting the job and not after.

You're wrong about Candice.
She is learning for herself, not by WWE. Most girls just get the "finaly training", but Candice is also training outside that. I believe that she is really trying to be a wrestler and not just eye candy.

 

[emceelokey]

Still though. She's actually having matches and taking up a slot of time on air and she's still learning?! She's been on tv for like 3 years now and shes still learning! It's when WWE does stuff like that, that makes their overall product suffer. Not just for the womens division but overall. People like Cm Punk, Samoa Joe and Styles and such spend that much time on the indy circuit before even going into a developmental program and then they finally get to tv. Stuff like that diminishes the "Major League" aspect of WWE. They should either have phenoms or seasoned vets on their rosters. Not people that lost a contest.

As for her improving. Maybe so. I don't really care for the women's division anymore because only like 4 of them wrestle. If she did improve I'm still 100% confident that there are at least 50 women that already surpass her in ability and actually want to wrestle as a prioity in their job and not as a secondary taks in their job.

 

[Bernkastel]

Candice is getting extra training outside the ring, and If you'd read my earlier post, you would have read were I talked about how its harder for candice now than it was for trish to reach that certain pinnicle of excellence simply because WWE doesn't have the talent anymore, Victoria (who can't do the things she used to do) Trinity (underratted) Jillian (very underrated) and Mickie James are the only talents WWE has that can be considered above average. Shelly and Melina are okay, better than the plastic playboys, but I felt that they needed to fine tune their skills just a little before competing with the big 4. Since those are the only women that can wrestle, Candice is learning and getting better, slowly but surely. Its wasn't like that for Trish, who had an overabundance of good talent to feud with, thats partly the main reason why she climbed the ranks so quickly.

 

[.MCH]

Okay well let me put my 2 cents in and maybe you guys will see things differently. Candice Michelle is definately improving and will be Women's Champion this year, no doubt. Now for those that dislike Candice need to realize that you can't always get who you want as champion. I have been a fan of Candice's for over a year now. She is the only diva from the diva search to actually get out on her own and train, while revolving around constant raw schedule. She is probably doing more work than other diva right now because trust me it has to be hard to train and make appearances on raw while trying to improve and wrestle on your own.

Also Candice is getting a push right now. Before I say anything else this push has to be 100x better then the Melina/Ashley feud. Ashley was shoved down our throats and performed terribly at Mania. Candice is their best bet right now for a new champion. Her being champion might actually give her a new look and maybe people will stop seeing her as improving and take her seriously. I am actually more interested than ever in the women's division because face it Trish was past her prime towards the end and became overbooked and boring. It gets boring after a while to see the same women winning the title. Just like how Cena keeps the title and when he looses it he gets it right back. That is boring and someone fresh needs to be champion. While many want Jillian and Trinity to go over to RAW that just can't happen because these women are needed for their brands. They need women on the other shows to carry over the women on Smackdown and ECW and they have yet to make any real big impact yet.. Plus they wouldn't get as big as pushes because there is just too much talent at once.

Candice is what the WWE needs as champion right now. She will bring up the division and progressivley make it better. She has the charisma and talent to make it. She is definately getting better as time goes by. Also when Candice came into WWE and began wrestling she wasn't as bad as people put her. Yes she was terrible but she had absolutely no training and went out competing. That is pretty impressive on the acount of her knowing nothing.

Candice would not be the worst women's champion. The Kat and Debra won it with no expierience. She has been with WWE for 2 1/2 years now and I think her time is now. Melina is way too overrated and isn't that impressive in the ring, she has botched moves herself, Victoria is past her prime and has had an excellent career, Mickie James winning again would make her a belt hog, Maria is no good (getting better), and Torrie Wilson isn't anywhere near being in the picture due to her relationship with Carlito.

Lets just accept Candice as the next women's champion and let it be. It is fresh, talent (despite what you say), and is the future. WWE needs the next Trish Stratus and Candice has what it takes. While she puts on good performances, she performs much better in singles matches. She could have won the title last year during her Playboy run but she knew she wasnt ready (said it in interviews) and wanted to wait until she improved. The WWE only saved Candice by not giving her a title shot at Mania 22, instead their waiting and the wait may be over. People felt the same way about Trish when she won the title, but in the end she became one of the best divas ever!

Finally, while you may think Melina will win this feud. Melina sounds as if she thinks she won't be doing anything in her matches with Candice because she thinks Candice is too easy to beat(as noted on raw and in a blog on WWE.com). Melina may slack and in the end loose the title to Candice. Hopefully people will accept my opinion and understand that Candice as champ is what the Women's division needs. Watch the 5/14 edition of raw and you'll see the audience excited and actually watching the match and cheering. People were so bored of the division before because it was the same women week after week competing for the title.

Thanx.

 

[Bernkastel]

wow i'm impressed, you make a good argument.

I agree that Candice has been improving, but I still feel that she just needs more training before she can be made into a serious title contender. Trish trained for a few years, and I know that Candice has been doing the same, but the main difference between the two are that Trish had an abundance off great talent to learn form while she was a rookie. Molly, Jazz, Victoria (without the injury), Ivory, Lita, Gail Kim and Jacqueline all help Trish better herself, thus she learned at a faster rate than Candice. I have no doubt that Candice will one day reach the level that Trish was at, but she has some distance to travel and her rate of improvement wont be as quickly as Trish's mainly because many of the other divas that Candice as to learn form, are still rookies like her. On raw there are Melina, Mickie, and Victoria (who can't do as much because of her leg, but that doesn't mean that she still can't teach Candice the ropes). Melina, as much as I respect her, really was never at the same caliber that Mickie James or Jillian Hall reached in the indy circuit, and could have learned some things from Mickie. I still think that Melina is more talented than Candice because she has had the training that Candice hasn't had. Now that I listened to some other peoples opinions, I think that a short title run for Candice really won't hurt the division, as long as WWE doesn't try and have her carry the division on her own, has she is in no position to do that. IMO, even if Candice does get a title run, many peoples opinions of her (including mine) won't change until she shows that she is at that level. While I agree with you when you say that having Candice as Champ would be a fresh and much needed change, it should also tell you how poorly of a state the women's division is in, when their is no one left to push but a second rate mid carder (and I say that with respect, as most of the other Divas are complete shit, and not even worthy of being called second rate) talent Like Candice, and that is no one's fault but WWE's.

 

[.MCH]

Well I can agree with you. Candice is definately not ready to carry it. But I think by the end of the year or early next year Candice could if they give her an injury angle and while she is "injured" she trains even more. She can come back and actually carry on the women's division. I think give her the title now to get her a more serious role and develope her and loose it by summerslam at the longest and get her involved in an injury angle and come back, win it, and go to main event status in the Women's division. I am actually interested in this fued and am excited to see where it goes from now on. But from what I've seen. Wwe is making it too obvious with Candice winning week after week and I am glad this match won't happen this Sunday at Judgment Day because that would be rushing to what could be a good feud for once since these two hate each other in real life. This won't be an eye candy catfight Candice is really getting serious. Sorry for using "and" so many times.

 

[it0mmy]

Candice is improving but i don't think she is a ready of a title run. I still see her more as eyecandy. Maybe next year they could give her the belt. and so what she has been with the company for 2 1/2 years. There some other people who have been longer and haven't gotten a title shot. They should Give the belt to Victoria. She derserves it and i think she is the best womens wrestler right now. I would also wanna see Torrie get the belt soon. Jillian and Trinity should come from Smackdown and ECW and work with the women's divison.

 

[.MCH]

I see where you are coming from but women like Victoria will never probably be champion again. Victoria has a leg injury and is past her prime. She had a great career and she should just accept it as should everyone else.

Same goes for Torrie. While I want her champion too, Torrie has not been a staple in the division as of late. I definatley know she will be one day but she just has to get back on the scene.

Right now Candice does not look ready but the feud is still fresh. In the upcoming weeks we'll have to see where WWE takes the feud and to see what kind of character they give Candice. Also WWE doesn't give the Divas enough time to see what types of moves they have. Matches are like 3:00 long and how can you get a moveset and a descent match in with only 3:00 to work with. Hopefully Candice cuts promos and looses a couple of matches in this feud so it isn't so obvious where it is going. Candice would make a great champion if they just got her away from strictly the eye candy Playboy cover girl. She has more potential then the WWE will allow her and the same goes for almost every diva. The matches should be at least 6:00 and then we would see better matches with better moves. This feud could end up going somewhere if the WWE just plays it out right.

Noone can deny that Candice can carry on a good match. I went to a RAW 2/25 house show and Candice fought Melina. This was a pretty descent match and Candice put in a good fight. To be honest while I know it is not the best feud, I would have preferred Candice vs. Melina at WM instead of Ashley vs. Melina. While I know Mickie vs. Melina vs. Victoria would have been better.

All I can say is that hopefully doesn't turn this into Melina vs. Ashley 2. Hopefully they develope Candice and make her loose the challenge the 1st couple times. Hopefully Candice trains while during this feud still and goes when not competing. It will be a challenge but I still believe Candice could come out on top and sooner of later end up carrying the division. Who would have ever thought Melina could have? She was the manager type and I thought WWE would keep her at that but I am glad that they did not.

So hopefully this feud turns out better then hoped for. This is Candice's oppurtunuty to really prove she is ready and that she is just more than eye candy. But hey it's WWE and they always screw everybody over!

 

[Monkey_Mania]

I agree that Candice is improving..but she still needs alot of work though. She could also have a very entertaining fued with Melina or even Mickie James. She could also be the Womans champ someday and i hope she does. Given the right amount of time and work she could be a permanent fixture of the Womans Division and a force to be reckoned with.

 

[dj420]

wow i'm impressed, you make a good argument.

I agree that Candice has been improving, but I still feel that she just needs more training before she can be made into a serious title contender. Trish trained for a few years, and I know that Candice has been doing the same, but the main difference between the two are that Trish had an abundance off great talent to learn form while she was a rookie. Molly, Jazz, Victoria (without the injury), Ivory, Lita, Gail Kim and Jacqueline all help Trish better herself, thus she learned at a faster rate than Candice. I have no doubt that Candice will one day reach the level that Trish was at, but she has some distance to travel and her rate of improvement wont be as quickly as Trish's mainly because many of the other divas that Candice as to learn form, are still rookies like her. On raw there are Melina, Mickie, and Victoria (who can't do as much because of her leg, but that doesn't mean that she still can't teach Candice the ropes). Melina, as much as I respect her, really was never at the same caliber that Mickie James or Jillian Hall reached in the indy circuit, and could have learned some things from Mickie. I still think that Melina is more talented than Candice because she has had the training that Candice hasn't had. Now that I listened to some other peoples opinions, I think that a short title run for Candice really won't hurt the division, as long as WWE doesn't try and have her carry the division on her own, has she is in no position to do that. IMO, even if Candice does get a title run, many peoples opinions of her (including mine) won't change until she shows that she is at that level. While I agree with you when you say that having Candice as Champ would be a fresh and much needed change, it should also tell you how poorly of a state the women's division is in, when their is no one left to push but a second rate mid carder (and I say that with respect, as most of the other Divas are complete shit, and not even worthy of being called second rate) talent Like Candice, and that is no one's fault but WWE's.

yeah it's the WWE fault and you are sooooooo right about Trish, wow she was just as bad as Candice was at one time but with that flawless, outstanding, talented (my god i want to cry remembering them) women that was all wrestling at the same time in one place she had no choice but to be great. You couldn't half ass a women match at that time and get the title. I hate to say this because I do respect women who even try to wrestle but the title can be on anybody and I don't think people will really care. They wouldn't really really care like they did. It's WWE fault they got great women like Jillian and Trinity on other shows when they should be over on Raw trying to help women like Candice who is the better of the women I'm talking about like Ashley (my god), Maria and the others. Hell Krystal would even be better on Raw I like her. I remember she had a good match with Jillian and Christy on smackdown before. She's a heel and good at it, I wish they would just pay Molly and Jazz and the others to at least come back to teach the girls something because I think they could do something great for women in wrestling again. At one point of times those women was so good they could have had their own dame show.

But yeah Victoria right now is the queen of the ring she's better then two of the WWE world champs

 

[.MCH]

You're absolutley right. The WWE does need to bring back Molly, Jazz, etc. We have women like Candice who are improving but she does have far to go and she does need wrestlers she can learn off. I think that is the reason why WWE pairs her up with Mickie and has her feud with women like Victoria and Melina, so she can learn off them. Yes Melina is a good wrestler but shes not that great at carrying over lesser talent. Wrestlemania 23 was one of the worst diva matches ever. The playboy pillow fight was longer and more structured then that! The crowd was dead and Ashley did terrible. But Melina couldf have at least carried Ashley over better, to at least not catergorize herself in the worst match of the night!

There is no doubt that Candice will have a title run very soon and I'm sure she will feud with the likes of Victoria and Melina, and possibly turn heel again and feud with Mickie! She has a while to go but if she feuds with the above then that will only help her more. Notice how you don't see the less expierieced fight with the less expierienced you see the expierienced against the less expierienced.

Their divas are finally learning how to wrestler and their bringing back the diva search so it can be another 2 years before the divas learn anything!

 

[Tracy]

I think that Candice is improving in the ring. Every time she steps inside the ring she gets better and better. Is she the next Trish Stratus? Hmm..who knows. It's too early to make those predictions. Trish didn't start off any better, but she's worked really really hard and proved people wrong. Who's to say that Candice can't do the same thing.

 

[.MCH]

I absolutely agree. It is a little too early to tell. And if Candice keeps this sport close to her heart, then she can do it and become the best. You don't have to have 10 years of expierience to be the best and Trish has proved that to all (Melina, Mickie, Victoria, Jazz, etc.)

 

[hbk&triple h]

Candice without a doubt has improved in the ring but she isnt ready to go in to the title spot yet because she needs more experience and more time to get ready to be able to carry that kind of responsibility.I would much rather see Victoria in the title position but she is past her prime.Where is Mickie James though.She has the talent but she has been in a rivalry with Candice already.

 

[.MCH]

Yes, she is really not ready but who else is there. Mickie, Victoria, and them have had their shots and I think Candice could very well shine here. Torrie would be my pick before Candice but from the way things are going with her that aint going to happen. Still if Candice went heel and fought as a heel champion, she could be more credible and do better promos because if you watch Candice with Vince's Devils, she had some good mic skills actually!

 

[hbk&triple h]

I dont know with Trish and Lita gone we have really no more credible women wrestlers except for Mickie and Victoria.We need more people like Jazz and Molly.They were amazing.Now since we have so limited of women the only girls we can go rely on is three people.Candice just isn't ready yet though.