A11oftheLights
Getting Noticed By Management
...you really don't get how the concept of a forum works, do you?
I do. If you feel passionate enough to talk the same thing over and over, it deserves its own thread.
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...you really don't get how the concept of a forum works, do you?
Howard vented his frustrations of not getting enough touches with the caveat that Kobe was shooting the damn ball too much. Even in your own words, D'Antoini didn't like Gasol's playstyle so he started Clark over Gasol. D'Antoni's general incompetence and Gasol's plantar fasciitis kept him on the bench. Not this asinine witch hunt to blame Howard for all the Lakers troubles for that 2012-13 season.
Sure, that does tend to happen when a team that was considered favorites to be in the Finals ends up barely making the playoffs. I love Nash, but that season he was pushing 39 and was playing like he was 43. He was slower, and was handcuffed from using his ball handling ability because Kobe needs the ball every damn play. Kobe Bryant needs the ball like I Am Phenom needs a bottle of windex for all the windows he licks.
Little aside here to the Lakers offense. the 2011-2012 season, the Lakers ranked 15th in scoring. 2012-2013 with Nash/Howard/Bryant they jumped to 6th. Then in 2013-2014 without Howard's presence the team dipped to 18th in scoring. Like it or not, it's impossible to deny Howard had a positive impact on the Lakers offensively.
Howard's defensive regression? I'm sorry, but what wildly misleading statement to again blame Howard for the Lakers woes. If anyone's defense took a tumble, Steve Nash and Bryant were nowhere to be seen on the defensive side of the court. Howard managed to win himself 9 votes for the NBA Defensive team that year, three of them for first team Defensive Team. He lead the Lakers in virtually every defensive stat and it wasn't even close save for steals. Howard ranked 2nd in total rebounds, first in defensive rebounds, 9th in Offensive boards, 4th in blocks, and 5th in steals from Centers. Looking through Dwight's numbers and looking through the rest of his team I'm still surprised that people are dumb enough to think Dwight Howard was the problem with that 2012-2013 team.
At the Defensive numbers for the Lakers follow a rather odd pattern. Defensively, the 2011-2012 Lakers did better than the 2012-13 Lakers with the '11-'12 team being 15th in points against and the '12-13 being ranked 22nd. But as we already know, the '13-'14 Lakers finished near dead at 29th in points allowed. How much of this we can truly pin on Howard's absence and Kobe/Nash's defensive backslides I can never truly say. But it is clear the Rockets became a better defensive team with Howard manning the five spot.
Bullshit, more and more fucking bullshit. Yes, Howard was nursing injuries throughout the year, but defensively speaking he still put up similar numbers from his previous two seasons before the Lakers. Just about two rebounds less as a Laker than his 2010-11 season with the same amount of blocks per game.
Considering the Defensive Player of the Year award is given away by writers instead of looking at statistics I'm not the least bit surprised you think the opinion of sports writers speak on a player's ability more than their stats do. With that said, statistically speaking Howard was a better player in 2010-2011 than he was in 2012-13. But that doesn't prove Howard performed poorly as a Laker.
Are we talking Howard on the Rockets, or the Lakers? Because if it's the first option the discussion is irrelevant. The discussion is why did the Laker fans run Howard out of town instead of anyone else who played worse than him.
Oh and it goes without saying that in 2012 Howard lead the league in defensive rebounds per game. So all this jargon that Howard wasn't getting enough rebounds to help the team is bullshit.
Wrong again, are you a gifted amateur at being wrong, or do you take this on the road professionally? Again it should be stated Howard led the league in defensive rebounds per game. How many more rebounds would Howard needed to have grab to placate the Laker fanbase? He literally pulled in more defensive rebounds than anyone else that year.
How on Earth does the LEAGUE LEADER IN REBOUNDS PER GAMEhurt the Lakers' chances of grabbing rebounds when he is on the court? What a completely stupid statement.
When arguing how good a player is, stats are better than subjective opinion. But I would like to see how you get these defensive ratings.
So in my search to find my Defensive rating I found the basic calculation being "an estimate of points allowed per 100 possessions." Which is an absolutely absurd number to quantify and contribute to a single player on a team of five. How do you count those 100 possessions? Do you count the defensive plays Howard was in? Do you count both offense and defensive possessions? How do we get this number?
But what really takes the shit out of your argument is the fact in 2012-13 the Defensive Player of the Year award went Marc Gasol who poises a 98.5 Defensive rating, which was 3.5 more than Tim Duncan (and 4.5 points more than when Howard won DPOY in 2011), who didn't win the award. So either this statistic makes no logical sense, or the DPOY award goes to popular opinion. But no matter which way you slice it, your argument falls apart faster than the Lakers season for the past three years.
How does a player get stats without physically performing. Physically watching, it was clear Howard lead the league in defensive rebounds, had the second best shooting percentage, and finished the year with more rebounds per game? Again I'm left asking "What were the Lakers hoping from Howard?" Because apparently performing at an all star level isn't enough for Laker fans.
I know what you are, but what am I?
Are you suggesting a defense first, hard nosed coach like Tom Thibodeau underutilized Asik? That's complete and utter bullshit. He's only ever had one season where he got his PPG and RPG to the double digits and hasn't done shit since. The only quality to Asik is his length, which as we all know will give you an NBA career far longer than it should compared to smaller players with similar skill levels.
How on Earth could anyone have watched the 2012 Laker Season and think the guy who shot better, grabbed more rebounds, and blocked more shots than the rest of his team was "uninspired?" Maybe instead of looking at Howard's stats and saying "He should do more" we could look at the rest of the starting rotation and point out how dogshit their play was.
Shit if we're talking "who is and who isn't inspired" the Lakers were the second worst transition defense in the league and most of the points they gave up were Kobe and Steve huffing gas while their marks made it to the offensive side of the glass several steps in front of them. But I can only assume your defense against this will be "Well why didn't Superman fly to the other side of the court to catch up to Steph Curry?"
Asik but in that same vein he did fuck all with them aside from tossing the rock to Harden.
Asik beat out Howard in offensive rebounds by 21 freaking rebounds. Big fucking whoop. If Howard averaged just 2 rebounds for the six games he missed that season he would have tied Asik in offensive rebounds. If anything this point you're trying to make only shows how capable Howard was on both sides of the glass.
Asik saw a cut in his minutes because it's evident for anyone with a brain that Howard is a far better center than Asik
Ron Rivera has banned Carolina Panthers from using hoverboards after he "caught them drag racing in the freaking hallway"
I lol'd.
Very funny but I understand his thinking.
Stop blaming Kobe.
Dwight didn't want to run the pick and roll in LA despite the fact he was better suited for it.
Kobe and Dwight's relationship did touch on the amount of touches but their bigger issue was their dissimilar approaches to the game.
Kobe was trying to teach Dwight how to be a winner and Dwight wasn't comfortable with that approach to the game.
Kobe had a more serious approach and Dwight was more playful and relaxed. Kobe touched on this topic earlier in the season, go watch the interview.
This mainly boils down to Howard did not like sharing the paint with Gasol.
The whole Asik comparison came up because Howard does NOT like sharing the paint.
Kobe is going to get his touches, nobody for a second would think he'll take less for Howard.
Kobe went as far as saying coming in that Howard would make a good 3rd option.
Gasol was moved to the bench in order to get him more time at CENTER.
When he was playing alongside Howard in D'Antoni's system, Gasol was often been relegated to roaming the perimeter, helping lead to those poor shooting percentages.
My assessment is Howard wasn't 100% and wasn't a good fit for the Lakers when he should have been. Simple as that.
Never saw them as a championship team.
Offense was going to run through Kobe regardless.
Hey look over here buddy, we are talking about Dwight Howard. Anyone that watches basketball knows Steve Nash isn't a defensive presence on the court, why would you think he would be of any impact on the defensive side at that stage in his career?
I'm pretty sure I pointed out Howard's issues were on the offensive board and second chance points.
That was a big part of the problem during Howard's time there.
Well quite naturally they do become better defensive team.
What's bullshit is you clearly didn't watch any Laker game and you're simply pulling statistics from pro-basketball data to support your argument.
Now imagine how he would've played had he been fully healthy and bought into the system correctly.
Able to get up the court consistently on offense instead of the last man, attacking the glass and getting in position, shifting, protecting the rim like he has in the past.
Unfortunately for the Lakers they didn't find out.
Anyone with any knowledge of basketball can tell that Dwight didn't perform up to expectations.
You can argue that statistical argument all you want.
You have to physically watch the game to see what any NBA fan and Laker fan saw instead of strictly basing your argument off all stats.
How was he just as good as he was with Orlando? I've given my reasons as to why he wasn't.
Statistics are measured, but if you're only going to look at blocks and rebounds then it further indicates you have no knowledge of basketball which I truly believe you may watch but have no full understanding of what you're looking at.
Defensive rating which is a statistic you seemingly disregarded is a measuring tool.
If you're a statistics guy don't overlook defensive rating, and synergy numbers which evaluate the player as primary defender in different play sets, defensive win shares, defensive +-, and sportvu that is measured based upon on how opponents shoot in the restricted area with that player actively contesting. All that is looked at.
Do you know why a guy like Draymond Green is just as valuable of defender today than a Dwight Howard?
You watched him defend the pick and roll. He forces the ball to the driver's screen side hand, allowing the guard coming off to attack the ball. And Green is able to switch constantly, from guard to forward to center to guard, without ever being caught in a real mismatch.
Again Howard wasn't effective on the offensive glass.
Read above, read before. Inability to recover after jumping, or move as quickly during the season.
Something you keep overlooking that was clear as day in the games because you're blinded by statistics.
Dwight was on a Magic team that was the 3rd best defensive team. No way was someone like Jason Richardson a better defensive player than Kobe Bryant?
Dwight played with a less stellar pool of players defensively.
You're a stat guy, what was the Laker's EFG when Howard was in the game in comparison to when he's not?
Kobe grabs a rebound, they're in transition but Dwight is the last man up the court -
he hurt his own touches with his inability to physically be where they needed him to be.
This plays into my argument about his ability to shift and close in as opposed to going belly up and letting players around him.
At full health he would've recovered and contested the shot. He wasn't consistent in doing that and the team
STATISTICALLY will show they were better when he wasn't on the court.
It's a real stat that is used to help evaluate great defensive players. Tim Duncan is usually always near the top.
Take that up with the league then if you disagree.
I misquoted the years but the point was his defensive rating wasn't in the top 15 during his stint with the Lakers when looking at the few seasons before.
Done explained to you my argument multiple times.
You have no clue as to what you're talking about and is a guy who just looks at ESPN for the highlights, that much is certain after reading your posts during this discussion.
Asik was stuck behind Joakim Noah he didn't stand a chance and seemingly his play in the playoffs which I believe was during his last season in Chicago is what really led to him landing in Houston.
This further emphasizes your lack of basketball knowledge.
When he went to the Rockets he was brought in to be their starting Center.
He played well and helped the team get to the playoffs.
After that season is when Dwight came and his minutes declined because they chose to move Howard to center(naturally so) and Asik went to the bench.
To be honest I was referring to Asik. He plays uninspired - but you'd have to actually watch the games to see why I was saying that.
The argument in which I chimed in in was about Dwight Howard's failures in LA.
As a whole they underperformed as a unit and just seemingly weren't a good fit.
If it makes you feel better than I feel the team was going to flop regardless.
Starting with an aging Nash and a coach whose system I've never been a fan of.
Surprisingly he's a decent outlet passer. He wasn't brought there for his offense I'll be the first to admit but he was a quality rebounder and reasonable defensive presence that can chip in a few easy baskets which is basically all you want from him.
The point I was trying to make is those are fringe all-star numbers for center.
I'm not disagreeing with that just pointing out how a decent player was moved to the bench because they were trying to play Howard at the 4.
Personally while not knowing you not having anything against you I think you have a poor understanding of the game especially when it came down to defending Dwight's failed LA venture with basic statistics.
I really don't believe you watch the game of basketball and if you do you aren't comprehending that's going on.
Your response to how a DPOY is determined was pure idiotic.
They look and stats among everything else that matters when measuring a recipient of the award.
I can hardly argue with their decisions in that avenue.
J.J.
You have to forgive BlunderKunker, he doesn't understand the game of basketball.
He thinks stats can really be used to determine one's ability to play the game.
It would be like if I came in here and tried to tell you that Allen Iverson was one of the best defensive guards in the history of the NBA.
We both know that's horse shit because we've both played, watched, and understand the game.
Having said that, though, the stats would support that Iverson was a great defensive guard. He was tops in steals and 50/50 balls nearly every year he was in the NBA.
Hey Phenom, I know you know how to use the quote button. If you wanna talk to me instead of talking about me, I'm all ears.
Yes, stats can be used to determine one's ability to play basketball. Can you argue otherwise? Statistically, Steve Nash is one of the best free throw shooters in NBA history. And then you can watch literally all of his free throws and see that Nash is as good at free throws as his numbers present. Now argue that statistics can't be used to judge talent or piss off.
Seeing as you tried arguing statutory rape isn't "that bad" it is within reason to assume you would argue Iverson was a solid defender.
Or we could look at AI's numbers and see aside from steals AI played a weak defense. But again, I'm not arguing AI was a good defender, this is just the strawman you need to use because you're the human equivalent of a door knob.
It's clear that AI is much better at defense than say a Steve Nash or a James Harden, but I wouldn't call Harden great. Again, care to actually refute anything I said, Jared Fogle?
I don't need to talk to you. You don't know what you're talking about. It would be like having a conversation with a child. You lost all creditability when you said that Kobe wasn't one of the greatest of all time.
Then, like this proved your point or something, you said he wasn't even the greatest Laker of all time. Which he isn't the absolute greatest Laker, but he's third behind Abdul-Jabbar and Magic Johnson, who IMO are interchangeable. So, no there is no use to speak to you.
Sweet Christ pancake how long did that novel take to write?
You'll have to break it down for me.About two hours I think. But then again, it takes time to fact check and actually go through the numbers instead of just conjuring bullshit from the sky like I'm a cow shaman.
Ah, when in doubt just ad hominem, shit on the table and walk away. Didn't expect anything more from you, honestly.
How meaningful does "Best player in team history" become if you can just swap out Jabbar for Magic, or Kobe and vice versa? Listing someone who was "the best in team history" ultimately ends up being opinion. An opinion you can ground in reason sure but ultimately everyone arbitrarily which stats are more important, if titles are more important, or even if stars of past generations like Jabbar could hold up against the elite today. But honestly if we compare the legacy of Jabbar, and the legacy of Bryant and it's easy to see Jabbar played better than Kobe and offered more consistent play.
You're a simple guy, I'll use a simple tally so even you can keep up.
More championships: Jabbar
More Rebounds: Jabbar
More Blocks: Jabbar
Higher FG%: Jabbar
More Points: Kobe
Higher PER: Jabbar
More Steals: Kobe
More 3Pts: Kobe
Now in case you can't count, the tally ends up being Jabbar 5, Kobe 3. Sure you can weigh whichever stat as differently as you like, but those are the facts as they presently stand.
Thanks for agreeing with me. I said Abdul-Jabbar and Magic Johnson were better than Kobe. As I said, he's the third greatest Laker behind those two, who IMO are interchangeable. Did you miss that or something?
You're right, you shouldn't have expected anymore participation from me when you said that Kobe wasn't one of the greatest of all time.
I mean, I literally stopped reading everything you wrote after that because it was clear you had no fucking clue what you were talking about.
God Bless J.J., he has more patience then I do.
He's tried so hard to explain to you how Howard just wasn't a good fit for the Lakers and how he wasn't nearly as good that year,
but I guess you just like arguing for the sake of it.
Then I tried to explain to you how all of the Lakers woes can be attributed to Jim Buss, which they can but you still want to argue that Kobe is at blame for everything.
I even conceded and agreed with you that yes, Kobe did run Howard out of LA and you even had to argue about that.
I just don't want to argue anymore.
As I said awhile back, its OK to blindly hate Kobe, we've all done it to someone and sometime.
Just call it what it is. Shit, I can't stand Lebron James at all and I could make a convincing argument about how he's ruined the entire NBA by going to Miami and how everything that Cleveland is going through is his fault, but honestly, its just because he's that good that I blindly hate him.
I still respect him, however, which is something Kobe should have earned from any NBA fan. People gonna hate though.
How can someone one of the greatest of all time without being the greatest of his team's history?
That's because I think you have no honest way of contributing to any actual discussion.
If you literally stopped reading my post how can you say with complete honesty that my points, the statistics, and the numbers are not valid? To suggest my points have no merit without even reading this is dishonest.
Unless of course you're being hyperbolic, in which case you can piss off and actually bring up something worthwhile.
Too bad god hates J.J and burdened him with the curse of lacking a honest bone in his body.
And statistically that's a bunch of horse shit. The only explanation J.J offered was "you had to watch all of the Lakers games and see the little examples I picked out that prove Howard was a doo doo head. Take my word for it." Which is bullshit and I demonstrated it to be bullshit.
Then of course JJ stringed a ton of lies together and presented them as fact. Because I'm an asshole and like rubbing salt into JJ's wound like my name is Leatherface, I'm gonna list off his lies, misinformation, and general stupidity for you.
1)He suggested Howard was weak with offensive rebounds. (Which he wasn't)
2)Then he claimed Howard was the reason why Pau's numbers dropped (until of course I called that bullshit out.)
3) Next, JJ claimed Howard and the Lakers didn't run the Pick and Run. (They did, and they were a top 10 team in the Pick and Roll.) He called the Laker's offense "clumsy" in spite of the fact they were a top 10 offensive team.
4) JJ then asserted Howard's game hurt Asik's ability. (Until it was proven Asik didn't have much "ability" in the first place.)
5) JJ accused Howard of hurting his team around him with his play. (Which was proven false.)
6) Then after several posts of me schooling his ass on the Lakers 2012-13 season, JJ changed his tune (i.e lied) to assert Howard wanting more touches forced the coaching staff to bench Gasol. (Which is false, and proven false with statistics and even D'Antoni himself preferring Earl Clark over Gasol.)
7a) JJ lied and said the offense didn't run consistently (Which they did. If they didn't, the Lakers wouldn't have been the sixth best scoring team that year.)
7b) Thought the Lakers defensive woes laid on Howard's shoulders (Proven wrong when it was shown the Lakers played better defense with Howard on the court. Least we mention the spectacularly bad defense played by the rest of the Lakers.)
8) JJ lied and said Howard had troubles exploding on defense thanks to potential nerve damage. (Which is bullshit I showed to be wrong by presenting his averages were consistent with the stats he had in 2011-12.)
9) JJ asserted that Howard had issues grabbing defensive rebounds (Which is more bullshit due to the fact Howard grabbed more defensive rebounds than anyone else that season.)
10) More bullshit from JJ implying the Lakers did better with Howard on the court. (Which recently I gave him the numbers to show that not only did the Lakers perform better, but opposing teams played worse when Howard was on the court. Which of course included that Howard in 2012-2013 took 5 points off a team's offensive rating. )
11) JJ suggested Howard's defense dipped hurt the Lakers more than Kobe's or Nash's and used his drop in Defensive rating to support it. (Which was proven to be bullshit when you look at Kobe and Nash's astronomically low rating.)
12) Again repeated that Howard didn't live up to Lakers standards. (Well in spite of the fact Howard out performed the vast majority of the NBA in most categories to measure a Center.)
13) Oh yeah, claimed Steve Nash's talents weren't ball handling and passing but rather defense and rebounds. (L OH FUCKING L)
14) Called Asik "decent" (Asik is fucking garbage.)
15) Suggested The Defensive Player of the Year went to the player with the best Defensive rating. (Which I showed not be the case for the past 25 fucking years.)
BOX SCORE: Spurs 102, Lakers 91
Dwight Howard, who could soon sign a $118-million contract to become the Lakers' next Shaquille O'Neal, is not playing like Shaquille O'Neal. There have been times in the last two games, in fact, when he looks more like Jermaine O'Neal.
The Lakers took the floor at the AT&T Center on Wednesday exhausted and hurting, their man purses filled with ready excuses. No Kobe Bryant. No Jodie Meeks. Barely Steve Nash.
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Howard, however, could soon be paid to ensure there are no excuses. He is supposed to be the excuse eliminator, the momentum creator, the giant shoulders upon which his teammates can survive nights like this.
Instead, with the Spurs surrounding and poking and prodding him, he crumbled into a giant purple ball upon which his teammates gratefully collapsed. He had five turnovers, five fouls, shot only four free throws and grabbed only two rebounds in a first half when the Lakers essentially lost it.
He was there, but he wasn't there. He was the elephant in the room, a giant that nobody could really recognize. This was the sort of game that Shaq used to own, yet this was a game that Howard quickly sold.
"I can't get too frustrated," acknowledged Howard afterward. "It takes me out of what I need to do for my team and what it takes to win."
Last week in this space Howard was praised for the intensity he showed in leading the team to two final regular-season victories after the injury to Kobe Bryant. But as the postseason has quickly grown more momentous, Howard has seemingly grown smaller.
Whether Howard can carry this kind of team through the playoffs without Bryant is something the Lakers must consider when they begin negotiations with the soon-to-be free agent. Whether he wants this kind of pressure is something Howard must also consider. Whatever happens, what happened Wednesday night cannot happen if the Lakers want to forge sort of future that Shaq and Kobe once brought them.
If Dwight truly ain't Shaq, then both sides are truly faced with a difficult decision.
As Howard spoke in the postgame press conference, his black bow tie was crooked. Back in the Lakers' locker room, his teammates' heads were bowed, their stares were long.
"It's not that we don't have the best talent," said Metta World Peace. "They just have nine guys with more confidence."
That lack of confidence began with Howard, who allowed the Spurs' aggressiveness to not only get under his skin, but also inside his head. Is wasn't just the things he didn't do, but it was how he didn't do them.
With 15 seconds remaining in a first quarter in which he had missed more than half of his shots, Howard inexplicably threw up a 15-footer that bricked, leading to a five-point Lakers deficit at the end of the period.
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In the second quarter, after blocking a shot and a pass on one possession, he lost the ball at the other end of the court and watched Tim Duncan race down for a fastbreak layup that pushed a two-point deficit to four.
He could stay on the court for only four minutes of the third quarter after picking up two more quick fouls, including a technical for talking to the officials.
"They called a foul, I told the ref I love you, I got a tech for it," Howard said with a weary grin. "There was no love on the floor."
No love, maybe, but plenty of ball, especially when it was passed to Howard in the fourth quarter. He lost it twice early in the quarter to allow the Spurs to push the lead to 14 and end all hope.
By then, his head seemed totally out of the game, and he finished the quarter taking just one shot while committing three turnovers.
"You know, they just did a good job of coming up with plays we haven't seen. Some of their guys got hot as we were trying to make a run," Howard said.
"Oh yeah, it's frustrating, you just got to trust my teammates to make shots, and when they go double, triple, whatever they do, beware of my arms, try not to get them tangled up."
Two games into their first postseason with Howard, and the Lakers are all tangled up in questions about his future here. In two games he has 10 fouls, nine turnovers, four offensive rebounds, and only six made free throws.
And, oh yeah, two losses.
"Either we overcome it or we go home. And we don't want to go home," Howard said.
"We fought to get into the playoffs, we fought this far, we're going to keep fighting."
It's nice talk. He has two more games to walk it.
Honestly, there are a lot of reasons Dwight Howard chose Houston over Los Angeles. Mike D’Antoni’s offense and how Howard fits in it is certainly part of it. That D’Antoni was hired when Howard had repeatedly told management he wanted Phil Jackson was part of it. Howard felt he wasn’t listened to. He felt his teammates didn’t stick up for him and how he played through injuries. It was a lot of things.
And you can add the fact the Lakers are and for a while will remain Kobe’s team to the list, writes Ramona Shelburne and Marc Stein at ESPN.com.
“Sources told ESPN.com that Howard and his representatives, in a handful of meetings with Lakers officials before he became a free agent July 1, strongly suggested that the center would have a difficult time re-signing with Los Angeles if Bryant stayed with the franchise beyond the 2013-14 season, the final year of his current contract. ”
From the moment the Lakers got Howard to Los Angeles, part of the pitch was that this would be his team when Kobe Bryant walked away — and Kobe dropped a lot of hints that he was going to play one more season and walk away in 2014. Nobody fully bought it, but he was suggesting it.
Until he injured his Achilles — that gave Kobe an obstacle to overcome. Suddenly he was talking about playing three more years.
And if Kobe wants to stay, he stays — he means more to the psyche and financial bottom line of this team than Howard. Kobe is the Lakers right now, the guy that fills the seats and brings in the sponsors. Management will give him what he wants.
Just to really smear Howard’s reputation in Los Angeles is this note from the same ESPN story.
“As an offshoot of those discussions, sources said, Howard’s camp at one point asked the Lakers whether they were at least considering releasing Bryant through the league’s amnesty provision, since Bryant’s return date from Achilles tendon surgery remained in question. ”
This entire incident just fits with the bad timing and miscommunications by both sides while Howard was in Los Angeles.
But there is one other side to this — Howard never played well enough to just take over the Lakers and demand the torch be passed. Howard never earned that conversation on the court. Part of that was injuries, certainly, but last season Kobe Bryant exceeded expectations and Howard fell short. Dwyane Wade eventually ceded all the power in Miami to LeBron James, but because LeBron demanded it with his play. Howard never came close to that in Los Angeles.
The bad Howard/Lakers marriage has disintegrated. And like the dissolution of most marriages it was not just one thing but a storm of a whole lot of them at once.
I could go on longer, I'm sure but that's just the footnotes version of the arguments you said you literally didn't read. If you want I can find a 15 year old girl who can read my posts for you. I'm sure that'll engage you more than actual reading.
I like being correct for the sake of being correct.
They can be attributed to Jim Buss appeasing Kobe Bryant, and the attitude Kobe Bryant created to make Jim Buss' job even harder. It isn't a surprise that so many free agents worth a shit like Aldridge won't sign with Buss' team because they knew playing with Kobe pulling all the strings would be a shit show. And behold, the Lakers a shit show.
LaMarcus Aldridge will not be signing with the Los Angeles Lakers, according to Mike Bresnahan. Aldridge reportedly didn't like the basketball fit in Los Angeles, and "didn't quite gel" with star Kobe Bryant, according to Bresnahan. The Lakers were Aldridge's first meeting in free agency.
Aldridge's agency, Wasserman Media Group, denied the report that Aldridge has ruled any team out.
The Lakers' presentation reportedly focused too much on "outside opportunities" and not enough on basketball, according to Adrian Wojnarwoski of Yahoo! Sports. The Lakers went into the meeting with the hope of shedding enough salary cap space to lure both Aldridge and DeAndre Jordan, but it would have been impossible for both players to get max deals even if they traded everyone but Kobe Bryant and young players like D'Angelo Russell and Julius Randle.
With Kevin Love re-signing in Cleveland and Aldridge reportedly favoring the San Antonio Spurs, the Lakers' big plans in free agency might be foiled for a second straight year. Has Los Angeles as a market lost its appeal to superstars, or is this simply an issue of not having enough talent on the roster to win immediately?
Aldridge was also reportedly impressed by the Rockets' presentation:
Wojnarowski confirms the Blazers' chances shouldn't be discounted, either
It wasn't just Kobe but the Laker fan base as well ran their best player out of the city.
Then either don't fucking reply to me, or make little backhanded quips about me.
Except "blind" hate would imply the hate is irrational or misplaced. Your inability to process new information at a higher brain function than that of a sea sponge isn't my fault.
How does the best player in the NBA moving to another team ruin the NBA? Hall of Famers from every generation changed teams all the time. Jordan, Jabbar, Chamberlain, Patrick Ewing, Malone, Shaq, and Bill Walton all played for different teams. The NBA as a product grew because of it.
I don't owe Kobe Bryant shit. He's a talented shooter, and at one point was one of the best elite two guards of all time on both sides of the floor. But at the same time there was no one as egotistical, selfish, and his persona feels about as authentic as the water in Flint Michigan.
No shit. Dwight Howard was trying to win basketball games and Kobe Bryant wanted to go out there and score 30 points a game. Or does the entire concept of "defense" totally escape you and Bryant?
What a crock of shit. If Kobe had a genuine fuck to give about winning he would have improved his defense or got his old ass out of the way to let someone else actually stay in front of a player.
Who cares what their approach and mindsets are? Dwight Howard performed at an elite level while Bryant played elite offense to try and balance how utter garbage his defense went.
And again I'm left asking how you get to this baseless assertion. Howard had no issue sharing the paint with either Gasol, or Clark. Nor did he have issues sharing the court with Asik or Terrance Jones.
The original starting lineup had Pau Gasol at four and Howard at five. But Pau performed poorly and fell victim to injuries. By the time D'Antoni came to town Antoni had no idea what to do with Gasol. To make matters worse, Earl Clark was having a fantastic year with the Lakers leaving Gasol to come off the bench and play. To try and imply Howard was the man responsible for Gasol's shortcomings is more dishonest bullshit.
"In D'Antoni's system"
"In D'Antoni's system"
"In D'Antoni's system"
"In D'Antoni's system"
Again, how is this Howard's fault that Pau's game didn't translate well in D'Antoni's system?
How much better did Howard have to play to be a good fit for the Lakers? Why do I have to fucking repeat this question. With Howard on the team, the Lakers finished as one of the top 10 teams in scoring. With of course Howard leading the team in scoring percentage. The only shortcomings Howard had on the offensive side of the glass that season was his poor free throw shooting and turnovers.
Seriously, did fucking Dwight Howard have to pick up the entire Staples Stadium with his bare god damn hands to have appeased the Laker fanbase?
And you were in the minority in that regard. The 2012-2013 preseason had the Lakers and Heat going to the finals that year.
No said it didn't have to run through Kobe. But what people said, and will continue to say is that Kobe shoots the ball too damn much.
Why do you think the Lakers' defensive woes fall on Howard when two of his fellow starters show a complete inability to stay in front of their mark defensively? Nash and Kobe played shit defense, hell statistically the entire team save for Howard played garbage defense. No one expects Nash to be a lockdown guy, he's never been that guy but to imply the Lakers failed defensively because Howard didn't live up to expectations is failing to see the rest of the court and how fucking old and slow they were.
And it was pointed out to be fucking bullshit because Howard finished that year with the second most offensive rebounds and the second best shooting percentage. Offensive rebounds and second chance points were not an issue for Howard. But you want them to be to continue your dishonest bullshit.
The biggest problem Howard had as a Laker that he wasn't Kobe Bryant. And because he wasn't Kobe Bryant he became the scapegoat for the 2012-2013 season. Well in spite of the fact the next year two years the Rockets have gone to the playoffs with help from Howard's play while the Lakers became the worst Lakers team of all time without Howard helping them defensively.
Finally reason takes over. It only makes rational sense that a Lakers core of Kobe/Nash in their twilight years would have no defensive ability at all.
It seems like you hate the idea that facts rally against your bullshit parade. Tough shit.
Fucking bullshit again. How many times do you need to be called out on this? Howard played at an elite level and was the rebound leader. It's like asking someone to jump after cutting out their ACL. They jump, and then you're left complaining the man didn't jump high enough.
The expectation for that Laker season was to win a championship. They were the Lakers "Big Three" to compete with the Miami Big Three. Except that Nash and Kobe performed poorly defensively and Howard was left to be the scapegoat. It is no fucking surprise the next year after the Lakers fell apart defensively without Howard.
I can, and it serves my argument much better than this fucking stupid bullshit of "Hur dur, Laker fans saw Howard laughing over his missed free throws, he's the reason we suck. Hur dur."
What the fans saw was a pre-season favorite end the season with an underwhelming 8th seed in the Playoffs with a first round shut out by the Lakers. Instead of looking at their team and seeing that Kobe and Nash have lost a huge step defensively blame Howard because he had the fucking audacity to question Kobe's shooting judgement. The fans are not reasonable, and it shows in hindsight as the Lakers fell apart, and continue falling apart to this day.
If it's anything like your argument that Asik is a better rebounder than Howard it's because you say so?
It really just fucking shits on your parade that you can't wheel out Skip Bayless level bullshit without the truth ruining it, don't it?
What kind of backwards world do you live in where Kobe is at the paint grabbing rebounds before Howard? Bryant didn't even finish in the top 30 rebounds for Shooting Guards. Even if that were the case you haven't established how prevalent this was for the Lakers and how that hurt their chances of scoring. Considering the Lakers were a top scoring team that year, it's safe to assume this little aside you're presenting is irrelevant.
At full health and 10 years ago Kobe Bryant could score 85 points. But that isn't the case. We have to deal with what we got and the 2012-13 Lakers got a Dwight Howard who returned six months early from surgery to give them elite caliber shooting percentage, rebounding, and defense. The Lakers and the fans are fucking stupid for suggesting otherwise.
Jesus fucking Christ, how many times do the numbers need to show you that just isn't the fucking case? If we want to use the on/off court measurements it's evident the Lakers were a better team with Howard playing.
And this is where
Howard On Court:
Team
EFG%
.480
ORB%
24.5
DRB%
79.2
TRB%
51.4
AST%
52.7
STL%
6.8
BLK%
8.4
TOV%
20.9
ORTG%
92.9
Opponent
EFG%
.516
ORB%
20.8
DRB%
75.5
TRB%
48.6
AST%
60.4
STL%
11.7
BLK%
7.5
TOV%
10.2
ORTG
114.0
Howard Off Court:
Team
EFG%
.503
ORB%
27.8
DRB%
72.9
TRB%
50.7
AST%
60.3
STL%
6.7
BKL%
6.7
TOV%
14.7
ORTG%
110.2
Opponent
EFG%
.507
ORB%
27.1
DRB%
72.2
TRB%
49.3
AST%
56.9
STL%
8.7
BKL%
9.2
TOV%
12.8
ORTG%
110.5
OH DARN LOOKS LIKE THOSE PESKY FACTS AND NUMBERS FOIL YOUR BULLSHIT AGAIN. The only place where Howard caused any negative impact on the Lakers floor was Offensive rating by a meager 2 points, .8 points in assists, 1% less in offensive rebounds, and 2 points in turnovers. But then the rest of the numbers show that Howard improves the team's abilities to rebound, block, and steal.
But what's really staggering, and gets to the root of what made Howard so important to the Lakers team are what he DOES TO OTHER TEAMS when on the court compared to when he is not. With Howard on court, opposing teams shoot worse, grab less offensive rebounds (Which eliminates your bullshit "Howard gives up too many second chance points nonsense) , get less assists, block less shots and perhaps the most notable stat, Howard drops opposing offensive ratings a whole 5 points. The only drawbacks are with Howard off the court, opposing teams generate .5% more steals and grab .8% more total rebounds.
And for fun, I want to net the difference to show the overall impact Howard has on both his team and opposing teams in the 2012-13 season and it shows Howard having nothing but positive numbers across the board except for assists.
Difference :
On-Off court
EFG%
+.030
ORB%
+0.7
DRB%
+0.7
TRB%
+1.5
AST%
-0.9
STL%
+1.1
BLK%
+1.7
TOV%
+1.8
ORTG%
+3.0
Overall on both sides of the court, Howard improved that Lakers team. The numbers don't lie, but you certainly do you dishonest shit heel.
Another Ad Hom attack in lieu of an actual argument or evidence to support your assertions. May the world laugh at you and your pathetic understanding of Basketball.
Asik was stuck behind Noah who at the time was playing stellar basketball. If anything, Thibs squeezed as much as he could out of a 30 foot tall Hungarian light post who's only real skill is grabbing rebounds. (Even then the NBA has more players better at that than not.)
Saying Asik is nothing more than a glass grabber proves I lack basketball knowledge? What another shoddy attempt at Ad Hom which would make this the third one. Asik is hot garbage, but because of his size he'll keep a job and still meddle around with a career averages that don't even break the single digits.
It speaks more to how shallow the Center position is in terms of talent rather than Asik's ability.
He played so well he got a whopping whole 10 PPG and a whole 1.1 block per game. The only part of the game where Asik shined that year was rebounds, and even then Howard did that better on average. Not to mention Howard was a better scorer, and defender. To suggest Asik was a better player than Howard on any facet of the game is fucking foolish.
For fuck sake, that's because Howard is clearly the better player than Asik. You don't need to be an analyst or a rocket scientist to see that.
You haven't even fucking proved he failed in LA. Even your thesis for your argument falls apart before you train wreck the argument with lies and dishonesty.
Wrong again. The Lakers as a team performed exceptionally offensively. But Defensively they were a shit show. A shit show that I have shown was in spite of Howard's stellar efforts, not as a result of his play.
You're either a prophet or a fool because a good majority of people had the Lakers pegged as favorites for the NBA finals.
The original system in mind was Mike Brown and the Princeton offense. But the Lakers being the Lakers fired Brown too early and brought in D'Antoni who wouldn't know what a D was if it smacked him across the face and shoved into his mouth.
I have no fucking clue how you manage to write that Nash has "surprisingly good passing ability" while believing Nash was brought in as a quality rebounder and defender off the wing. Nash is not any of those things, he never really been any of those things. Let me give you a crash course on what Steve Nash actually was and what the Lakers expected of him.
Steve Nash was in his hay day one of the best ball handlers of this generation and one could argue of all time. He was one of the best players in the pick and roll system and his passing ability in his prime was unmatched by anyone else. To top it all off, Nash was a fantastic shot and whenever he was sent to the free throw line he holds an NBA best at 92% The best skillset he had was controlling the offense and either getting everyone else open, or taking the open shot. But on the Lakers, where Kobe demands the offense runs through him, Nash had to limit himself to becoming a spot up shooter. It hurt his numbers across the board and he had no ability to cover either 1 or 2 guards. His last two years in LA were a total mess. Even in college people had Nash down as one of the worst defenders they've ever seen, let alone how bad 38 year old Nash was.
But I'm just fucking shocked that someone who takes every other chance to insist I haven't watched basketball thought Steve Nash was a "decent" passer but was a good defensive/rebounder.
Asik but in that same vein he did fuck all with them aside from tossing the rock to Harden.
Yao fucking Ming went to the All-Stars a year after he retired. "Fringe all-star numbers" for centers could literally be fucking 0 and you could have gone to the All-Stars. Fan opinion means total shit, and I couldn't care less how many all-stars Howard, Nash, or Bryant have gone too.
Fucking bullshit again, you fucking lying sack of shit. At the start of the year, Asik played at the five, and Howard at four. But Asik played like the glorified bean pole he was and injuries forced him to the bench in favor of a much better lineup up Terrance Jones at four, and Howard at five. Do you have an honest bone in your body, or do you just make shit up to suit your narrative?
Ad hom attempt number 4
But then again, what do I expect from a guy who thought Steve Nash was a defending/rebounding point guard (this would be an ad hom if it was entirely baseless. )
Asik but in that same vein he did fuck all with them aside from tossing the rock to Harden.
Ad hom number 5
Again from a guy who thought Nash was a defending/rebounding point guard.
Oh, is Defensive Player of the Year not awarded by who writers felt were the best defender in the NBA? I must have missed that change to the award process.
I don't need to talk to you. You don't know what you're talking about. It would be like having a conversation with a child. You lost all creditability when you said that Kobe wasn't one of the greatest of all time. Then, like this proved your point or something, you said he wasn't even the greatest Laker of all time. Which he isn't the absolute greatest Laker, but he's third behind Abdul-Jabbar and Magic Johnson, who IMO are interchangeable. Lets put it this way, if we were to go position by position and pick 2 from every one to decide the 10 best players; Kobe would be on that list as the 2nd greatest SG behing Jordan. So, no there is no use to speak to you.
Uhhhhhh Hate to break it to ya but Kobe's 5th... You're forgetting Wilt Chamberlin and Jerry West....
Edit: But hey, sorry for the interuption. Now back to our regularly scheduled Forum debate.