WWE Survivor Series 2016 LD

[klunderbunker]

Nah, that was just part of it. The attraction was two lunatics trying to kill one another. Going forward, I don't think the first match will be a focus.

Going forward it won't be, but it doesn't mean people won't be thinking of it.

I didn't get the lunatics part. It was there for sure, but I saw it as Lesnar wanting to clean up the only blemish on his record.

 

[Da Prophet]

They should be the coaches on a WWE reality show so they can tear down some doors Rampage style.

One of them can be a really good coach and promote his clothing company while the other just has his team watch his old fights from the glory days resulting in all but one member of his team being eliminated. Somebody gets nicknamed "Titties" and they proceed to nearly fight a coach over it.

 

[SSJPhenom]

Why does Goldberg's spear look so much better than everyone else's? That's his real finishing move. The Jackhammer is just icing on the cake.

 

[@smarkmouth]

Page 48 is hilarious.

 

[Slyfox696]

Short term it was great. Long term.......not so much.

Meh, you're overthinking it. Goldberg was an absolute monster in WCW, so having him come in and be a monster in this match isn't that big of a deal. It was obviously a nod to the flash knockouts you see all the time in the UFC.

I know people are going to be whining "but what about the rest of the roster", but that doesn't matter. If it DID matter, then a 97 year old Undertaker taking Brock Lesnar to his absolute limits on three different occasions would have mattered far more than Goldberg winning in a flash victory.

It was fun and it was exciting and people will remember it for a long while. It was a very good decision, even if Goldberg doesn't return.

It's not a fluke when it happens twice.

12 years apart hardly qualifies as "happening twice".

 

[Blade]

I loved it. I think it's the first time in years I've said "no fucking way" out loud while watching wrestling. I love that feeling.

Truth is, it's not like the rest of the important people on the roster suffered. The 10 top stars in the company (and Shane) got an hour to shine. They all got their spots, there were layers of storytelling going on, and it built for current and upcoming angles. There's your booking for the future. Hell, they helped undo some of the shitty Wyatt booking we've seen over the years, while also making Orton interesting again by not having him turn on Bray at the first viable opportunity.

Goldberg vs. Lesnar was minute of fun and shock. And that's all we needed. God knows we didn't want them going on for 10 minutes. Now Goldberg can go out as hero with a goodbye promo on Raw. Lesnar, now humanised, can put over a few guys before going away forever, and everyone will be happy.

 

[klunderbunker]

Meh, you're overthinking it. Goldberg was an absolute monster in WCW, so having him come in and be a monster in this match isn't that big of a deal. It was obviously a nod to the flash knockouts you see all the time in the UFC.

Which I want nothing to do with watching WWE, though I get why most people won't care.

I know people are going to be whining "but what about the rest of the roster", but that doesn't matter. If it DID matter, then a 97 year old Undertaker taking Brock Lesnar to his absolute limits on three different occasions would have mattered far more than Goldberg winning in a flash victory.

I can't agree with that. I could live with Lesnar beating most of the roster but he was squashing them, only to get squashed again. That doesn't work for me.

It was fun and it was exciting and people will remember it for a long while. It was a very good decision, even if Goldberg doesn't return.

Agreed on all points, save for it being very good. Acceptable maybe, but I cna't go with very good.

12 years apart hardly qualifies as "happening twice".

It does when that's what the match was built on.

 

[SSJPhenom]

Goldberg isn't going away. After he won, he got on the ropes and mouthed, "I'm back". Plus, a story broke that he's signed a contract for Royal Rumble with talks of WrestleMania.

Lesnar and Heyman will claim that he got lucky with the initial spear and that Brock wasn't taking this seriously. They'll have a rematch where Brock will win and another where Brock will also win making them even.

That's how I see it going anyways.

 

[Pay Per Ghost]

Imagine the strokefest in the IWC if WWE retires Goldberg tomorrow...

 

[Slyfox696]

Which I want nothing to do with watching WWE, though I get why most people won't care.

Adding a bit of realism back to the wrestling product is something you should most definitely want when watching the WWE.

I can't agree with that. I could live with Lesnar beating most of the roster but he was squashing them, only to get squashed again. That doesn't work for me.

Why? Why is squashing the roster and being taken to his limits three times against an Undertaker who is 143 years old somehow better?

Reality in wrestling is always what's happening now. You know that as well as I do. No one is going to watch Brock Lesnar now and think "well, he USED to be a badass when he was wrestling 20 minutes with Undertaker, but after watching him win in the UFC and then get pinned by Goldberg, he's just not a monster anymore".

It does when that's what the match was built on.

Meh, it was very loosely based on that. The much more prevalent storyline was Fantasy Warfare. That's what was being used to sell the match.

 

[klunderbunker]

Adding a bit of realism back to the wrestling product is something you should most definitely want when watching the WWE.

A bit yes. Having someone out of wrestling for 12 years beating someone billed as the perfect fighting machine doesn't come off as realistic to me.

Why? Why is squashing the roster and being taken to his limits three times against an Undertaker who is 143 years old somehow better?

The Undertaker stuff didn't help many people either. For me, the way they're doing it makes the rest of the roster look like secondary options who are all basking in the glow of the old guys.

Reality in wrestling is always what's happening now. You know that as well as I do. No one is going to watch Brock Lesnar now and think "well, he USED to be a badass when he was wrestling 20 minutes with Undertaker, but after watching him win in the UFC and then get pinned by Goldberg, he's just not a monster anymore".

I'm not annoyed at Lesnar losing that fast as, like many people have said, he'll bounce back just fine. That's wrestling 101. Goldberg being the one to beat him like that is where they lose me.

Meh, it was very loosely based on that. The much more prevalent storyline was Fantasy Warfare. That's what was being used to sell the match.

I'm still waiting on an explanation for what Fantasy Warfare was. Seriously I don't know what they were going for with that.

 

[SSJPhenom]

I think, as long as this isn't a one off and Lesnar can get his win back, this really isn't that big of a deal. If Goldberg rides off into the sunset now, however, the WWE done fucked up.

I agree that it was shocking and good, but I also agree that having a 50 year old who hasn't wrestled in 12 years beat the guy that's beaten everyone is ridiculous, unless Lesnar returns in kind what Goldberg did to him. Reestablishing his dominance as it were.

I tell you, though, I forgot how fucking hype Goldberg's entrance was. When his music hit and the security was knocking on his door and walking him to the ring, I was getting all pumped up. Always loved his entrance.

 

[Slyfox696]

A bit yes. Having someone out of wrestling for 12 years beating someone billed as the perfect fighting machine doesn't come off as realistic to me.

They didn't bill him as the perfect fighting machine. In fact, I don't know if the WWE has commented on his win at all. I suspect it will be passed off as a fluke by Paul Heyman.

The Undertaker stuff didn't help many people either. For me, the way they're doing it makes the rest of the roster look like secondary options who are all basking in the glow of the old guys.

No, it's just finding ways to put on mega main-events in an era where we see mega main-events every Monday and Tuesday nights.

I'm not annoyed at Lesnar losing that fast as, like many people have said, he'll bounce back just fine. That's wrestling 101. Goldberg being the one to beat him like that is where they lose me.

Nothing wrong with it.

Let's use basketball as an example. I know you're a big fan of UK. When the Wildcats lost to Wisconsin in the Final Four, did that mean that every team Kentucky beat in those first 38 games were bad? Or was Wisconsin just the better team that night and was just the right matchup for Kentucky? I suspect you'll agree it was the latter.

Same thing here. Beating someone who is great doesn't mean everyone else is poor. It just means that, for the one night, Goldberg was great. Or lucky, however it is spun.

I'm still waiting on an explanation for what Fantasy Warfare was. Seriously I don't know what they were going for with that.

Not sure either. Seems like cross marketing with the video game to me.

 

[Uncle Sam]

Wait, wait, wait, wait. Why is Randy Orton in the Wyatt Family?

 

[klunderbunker]

They didn't bill him as the perfect fighting machine. In fact, I don't know if the WWE has commented on his win at all. I suspect it will be passed off as a fluke by Paul Heyman.

I'm fairly sure that's how they billed him after the Cell match with Undertaker. If not that specifically, he was certainly billed as an unstoppable monster that no one, save for Undertaker, could put much of a dent in.

No, it's just finding ways to put on mega main-events in an era where we see mega main-events every Monday and Tuesday nights.

Fair enough, but why not give this rub to someone who is going to be around more often? It certainly did feel like a huge match. Whether you consider part of that being a question of how big a trainwreck it could be to be a good thing or not is up for debate.

Nothing wrong with it.

Let's use basketball as an example. I know you're a big fan of UK. When the Wildcats lost to Wisconsin in the Final Four, did that mean that every team Kentucky beat in those first 38 games were bad? Or was Wisconsin just the better team that night and was just the right matchup for Kentucky? I suspect you'll agree it was the latter.

Actually I'd use option 3: it was really stupid to just dribble the clock out instead of trying to score more. And that we got ripped off by that ridiculous "well we couldn't tell when the shot clock went off because it was so loud" excuse.

As for a less sarcastic answer, I get what you're going for there but in the NCAAs it's not quite the same. In WWE, those wrestlers are still around after Lesnar loses. One of my most recent memories of Orton and Ambrose is seeing them getting beaten without even getting in any real offense.

That's probably more on the way Lesnar was booked in those matches, but it felt like it was being built up to a big payoff with someone being the guy to stop him. We got that last night, but I think there were better options for the rub.

Same thing here. Beating someone who is great doesn't mean everyone else is poor. It just means that, for the one night, Goldberg was great. Or lucky, however it is spun.

True, but beating people up like Lesnar does and then having grandpa come in to beat him up doesn't do much for them either.

 

[Mighty NorCal]

It makes me wonder if anyone here has ever seen a UFC heavyweight fights. If anything, I wish matches went like this more often.

 

[Mighty NorCal]

True, but beating people up like Lesnar does and then having grandpa come in to beat him up doesn't do much for them either.

Unless grandpa is Goldberg.

 

[Slyfox696]

Wait, wait, wait, wait. Why is Randy Orton in the Wyatt Family?

If you can't beat'em, join'em. At least that's what Orton said.

I'm fairly sure that's how they billed him after the Cell match with Undertaker. If not that specifically, he was certainly billed as an unstoppable monster that no one, save for Undertaker, could put much of a dent in.

My mistake, I read what you wrote incorrectly.

It makes sense because Goldberg was the superhero.

Fair enough, but why not give this rub to someone who is going to be around more often? It certainly did feel like a huge match.

What rub? Lesnar is not being used in that way. Lesnar is being used as a big match draw, not as a member of the regular roster. That's why he's feuding with guys like Taker, Cena, Triple H, Goldberg, Orton. Even guys like Reigns or Rollins weren't so much about getting those guys over as it was about creating the big matchup.

As for a less sarcastic answer, I get what you're going for there but in the NCAAs it's not quite the same. In WWE, those wrestlers are still around after Lesnar loses. One of my most recent memories of Orton and Ambrose is seeing them getting beaten without even getting in any real offense.

But it is the same. All those teams Kentucky defeated weren't less because Kentucky lost. Orton isn't in any less standing after his Summerslam match and Ambrose is in the main-event.

Lesnar isn't about losing to put people over right now...Lesnar is about mega main-events.

That's probably more on the way Lesnar was booked in those matches, but it felt like it was being built up to a big payoff with someone being the guy to stop him. We got that last night, but I think there were better options for the rub.

But Lesnar has lost many times before. He lost to Cena, he lost to Taker, he lost to HHH, he lost at Wrestlemania.

It's not like Lesnar hasn't lost throughout his run of dominance. Certainly there is a difference between those losses and what happened last night, but Lesnar is no less a monster today than he was two days ago.

True, but beating people up like Lesnar does and then having grandpa come in to beat him up doesn't do much for them either.

It's not about them. It's about Lesnar and Goldberg and mega main-events. When Rock came in and beat Cena at Wrestlemania, that didn't mean anything to the people Cena had defeated. It just meant we had an epic matchup.

 

[klunderbunker]

If you can't beat'em, join'em. At least that's what Orton said.

My mistake, I read what you wrote incorrectly.

It makes sense because Goldberg was the superhero.

True, but why Goldberg? Why not anyone else?

What rub? Lesnar is not being used in that way. Lesnar is being used as a big match draw, not as a member of the regular roster. That's why he's feuding with guys like Taker, Cena, Triple H, Goldberg, Orton. Even guys like Reigns or Rollins weren't so much about getting those guys over as it was about creating the big matchup.

You don't think there's a rub in being the one to stop the unstoppable monster?

But it is the same. All those teams Kentucky defeated weren't less because Kentucky lost. Orton isn't in any less standing after his Summerslam match and Ambrose is in the main-event.

I've seen them in a weaker light. I find it a bit harder to take them as the top stars if someone can just come in and beat the heck out of them like that. And yes I'm aware most people don't see it that way.

Lesnar isn't about losing to put people over right now...Lesnar is about mega main-events.

That's true but if someone is going to beat him in dominant fashion like that, why Goldberg? That's what I don't get out of this.

But Lesnar has lost many times before. He lost to Cena, he lost to Taker, he lost to HHH, he lost at Wrestlemania.

True, and those losses were stupid too.

It's not like Lesnar hasn't lost throughout his run of dominance. Certainly there is a difference between those losses and what happened last night, but Lesnar is no less a monster today than he was two days ago.

I'm not sure I'd go that far but he's certainly repairable.

It's not about them. It's about Lesnar and Goldberg and mega main-events. When Rock came in and beat Cena at Wrestlemania, that didn't mean anything to the people Cena had defeated. It just meant we had an epic matchup.

We had one in the main event of Summerslam too and Orton got squashed. What I don't understand is why Goldberg gets to be treated as a god while the rest of Orton's opponents (save for UNdertaker) have been cannon fodder for years.

I'm fine with Lesnar losing at some point and even losing like he did. My problem is treating everyone else like they did for the sake of Goldberg of all people. It seems like a big waste of time and doing potential damage to the others. Granted some of this might be because I've been sick of Lesnar for a long time.

 

[Mighty NorCal]

. My problem is treating everyone else like they did for the sake of Goldberg of all people. It seems like a big waste of time and doing potential damage to the others. Granted some of this might be because I've been sick of Lesnar for a long time.

But.....they didn't do it for the sake of Goldberg. The Goldberg thing wasn't even happening til like six weeks ago lol. Totally mutually exclusive. Sly's Rock - Cena allegory is RIGHT on point.

 

[klunderbunker]

But.....they didn't do it for the sake of Goldberg. The Goldberg thing wasn't even happening til like six weeks ago lol. Totally mutually exclusive. Sly's Rock - Cena allegory is RIGHT on point.

I think the thing is Sly and I see this differently. He sees it as a bunch of stand alone matches. I see them as the story of Lesnar being unstoppable and running through the roster until someone stopped him. If you look at it like Sly does, he's very right. I just don't look at it that way.

 

[Bernkastel]

It makes me wonder if anyone here has ever seen a UFC heavyweight fights. If anything, I wish matches went like this more often.

This, which is why I thought the ending to Lesnar/Orton was great. As if Lesnar legit shot on the guy and beat his ass.

 

[Jeff Deliverer of Mail]

This, which is why I thought the ending to Lesnar/Orton was great. As if Lesnar legit shot on the guy and beat his ass.

I don't agree. The momentum was really starting to roll and it was becoming a -good- match after a slow start. Brock threw Orton overhand through a table, Orton planted Brock right on his skull with a vicious guillotine DDT...then it just abruptly ended UFC style. It was gruesome and a bit disturbing watching Orton's head drain like a tap. They could've had Brock get into more trouble and eat an RKO and barely kick out or something. I'm all for some busted open heads to add drama, but not UFC endings. If I want to watch UFC endings I'll go watch UFC.