WWE New York, Round 3, Match 2: #5 Randy Orton vs. #12. The Ultimate Warrior

[justinsayne]

Oh please, if Sgt. Slaughter could find away to beat Warrior I have no doubt in my mind that Orton could do the same, in the match with Slaughter (Jan. '91 RR I beleive), Sherri showed up at ring side during the match, distracted Warrior, he then chased her down the aisle, what's to say Orton doesn't get on of his legacy stooges to do this, Warrior chases one of Legacy down the aisle only to get ambushed by the other, much like how Savage ambushed Warrior when he chased Sherri down the aisle during the Slaughter title match, Warrior recovers from the ambush and returns to the ring before the ten count, where Orton continues to deliver a beating to Warrior just like Slaughter did, and like the Slaughter match, Warrior would likely regain the advantage, that's when Legacy returns to interfere again, culminating in Warrior getting whacked in the head with a lead pipe or something (Savage used a metal scepter) while the ref is distracted, Orton quickly hits the RKO and follows up with with a punt before scoring the pin, hell it it makes you feel better you can even pretend Orton puts his feet on the ropes if you want, doesn't really matter Orton still wins

 

[NSL]

I'm going with Ultimate Warrior for the win. Randy Orton's head games would have no effect on him, and there's no argument that Warrior isn't faster or stronger than Orton. Orton will just work the whole match leading to the RKO, which Warrior will no-sell, and then whip him around the ring until using a Gorilla press to keep him down. Even if Orton kicks out, he can "punt" Warrior 8 times, it won't keep him down.

 

[Little Jerry Lawler]

I'm going to go with Warrior. He's faster and stronger in the ring than Orton and if elbow drops, tombstones, and pedigrees aren't going to keep him down, I don't see how the RKO and punt combination is going to do the job. Plus, Warrior has beaten many big names and Orton tends to lose often to much higher competition.

 

[The Todd]

Tastycles - fair play for being the first to make a proper argument why the punt won't work instead of just saying "oh, it won't work"

Him kicking out of the Tombstone wasn't what I was expecting. 'Taker taking ten seconds to actully try pinning him doesn't stop me believing Orton can get Warrior down. An RKO will floor him for long enough to set the punt up, the only question as you say was the way Warrior gets up from the mat.

From all the times he kicks out of finishers, yes he jumps straight up, but this isn't after a pinfall attempt. He has ben floored. Look at the video at around 4.38. He is rolling around in pain and ends up on his knees after 'Taker flooring him. The adrenalin that obviously hits him after kicking out of a pinfall isn't there when just hit with a move. Orton knows the RKO won't work, so he wouldn't go for the pinfall and he then has the chance to get the punt in.

The people arguing the punt won't work really need to say why it won't. It is a proven fact people who suffer it are out of action for a while. Why wouldn't it put Warrior down for at least three seconds if connected?

 

[FromTheSouth]

I take Orton over Warrior here. I imagine that Orton could handle the initial onslaught by Warrior. Then, what is left? Warrior doesn't have the ability to adapt and adjust during a match.

If Orton survives the initial offense, he proceeds to pick Warrior apart. I see Orton beating on Warrior for a while, and then, as soon as Warrior makes one move, he starts to pump his arms to gain the power of all the little Warrio......RKO out of nowhere. Match over.

 

[justinsayne]

I'm going with Ultimate Warrior for the win. Randy Orton's head games would have no effect on him, and there's no argument that Warrior isn't faster or stronger than Orton. Orton will just work the whole match leading to the RKO, which Warrior will no-sell, and then whip him around the ring until using a Gorilla press to keep him down. Even if Orton kicks out, he can "punt" Warrior 8 times, it won't keep him down.

Did you not even read my last post at all?, Orton won't have to connect on 8 punts, he'll beat Warrior the exact same fucking way Slaughter did at RR '91

I'm going to go with Warrior. He's faster and stronger in the ring than Orton and if elbow drops, tombstones, and pedigrees aren't going to keep him down, I don't see how the RKO and punt combination is going to do the job. Plus, Warrior has beaten many big names and Orton tends to lose often to much higher competition.

Oh lord, fucking read my post, you clearly missed it...

Oh please, if Sgt. Slaughter could find away to beat Warrior I have no doubt in my mind that Orton could do the same, in the match with Slaughter (Jan. '91 RR I beleive), Sherri showed up at ring side during the match, distracted Warrior, he then chased her down the aisle, what's to say Orton doesn't get on of his legacy stooges to do this, Warrior chases one of Legacy down the aisle only to get ambushed by the other, much like how Savage ambushed Warrior when he chased Sherri down the aisle during the Slaughter title match, Warrior recovers from the ambush and returns to the ring before the ten count, where Orton continues to deliver a beating to Warrior just like Slaughter did, and like the Slaughter match, Warrior would likely regain the advantage, that's when Legacy returns to interfere again, culminating in Warrior getting whacked in the head with a lead pipe or something (Savage used a metal scepter) while the ref is distracted, Orton quickly hits the RKO and follows up with with a punt before scoring the pin, hell it it makes you feel better you can even pretend Orton puts his feet on the ropes if you want, doesn't really matter Orton still wins

 

[BooCocky]

You're stretching it. Warrior was able to outwit some of the smartest, and by the smartest I mean The Brain. Like I stated, you need to keep Warrior down with an RkO enough to set up a punt. Warrior has beaten the best and Kayfabe wise Orton usually loses the first match of anything. Nothing will change here, Warrior will connect with his three moves and win.

 

[Big Sexy]

I'm going with Warrior, but the people who are saying that it will be a squash match are wrong. It's not like Warrior never got hurt, he was getting his ass kicked in a couple matches against Rick Rude and Randy Savage. Saying the RKO or the punt won't affect him is shear ignorance. The two matches Warrior lost in the WWE were to Rude and Sgt. Slaughter and both came because of outside interference. Legacy would be in Orton's corner to provide that. However, when it's all said and done Orton just hasn't done enough thus far in his career for me to say he could beat Warrior. Warrior is a force to be reckoned with in this tournament and he gets the victory here.

 

[justinsayne]

You're stretching it. Warrior was able to outwit some of the smartest, and by the smartest I mean The Brain. Like I stated, you need to keep Warrior down with an RkO enough to set up a punt. Warrior has beaten the best and Kayfabe wise Orton usually loses the first match of anything. Nothing will change here, Warrior will connect with his three moves and win.

Stretching it?!? WTF are you talking about, the scenario I presented has actuelly happened before, there is no stretching it what so fucking ever!!!!, in fact I added to the end, Slaughter just pinned Warrior after Savage whacked him on the head, in my scenario I added the fact that Orton would hit an RKO and Punt just to make sure Warrior stays down for the three, which history prives would be more than enough, Warrior fans are just getting fuckig delusional at this point

[youtube]EjdaDr8AsLY[/youtube]

I said it before if Slaughter could do it, so could Orton

 

[justinsayne]

However, when it's all said and done Orton just hasn't done enough thus far in his career for me to say he could beat Warrior. Warrior is a force to be reckoned with in this tournament and he gets the victory here.

Hasn't done enough?, Orton is a former WHC, a 3 time (and the current) WWE champion, he's also a former tag champ, and IC champ, Warrior is only a former 1 time WWF champion and 2 time IC champ, Orton has more WHC/WWE title reigns that Warrior has reigns with all his belts combined, Orton in 8 yrs. in the business Orton has already done more than Warrior could have ever dreamed of doing

 

[BooCocky]

Savage is better than any one of Legacy so that should negate it. Slaughters prime is still better than Ortons. So saying Slaughter was able to pin Warrior with the help of Savage isn't really saying much. Ted and Cody are both whipping boys. Warrior should run through them with no trouble. He is still capable of getting in the ring and destroying Orton. Still, no compelling argument for Boreton.

 

[The Todd]

Savage is better than any one of Legacy so that should negate it.

Since when did wrestling ability help you distract someone better?

Slaughters prime is still better than Ortons.

Yes that one wwe title he won was much better than Orton's three (I'll be nice and not count the WHC)

Ted and Cody are both whipping boys. Warrior should run through them with no trouble.

Yes he will, then he will turn around into the RKO and the punt making the point of the distraction a success.

I still think Orton would win without Legacy. He can hit the RKO out of nowhere. He can take a beating, hit it, then punt Warrior and it's over.

Oh, and I haven't seen a compeling argument for Warrior either. So far all there is is that he won't get pinned off the RKO.

 

[Tastycles]

Slaughter won because Savage interfered twice. If we ignore the fact that Ted DiBisase and Cody Rhodes are both shit, they still would have to come in twice. If we're bringing the whole team thing into it, shall we point out that the Warrior's old tag partner is Sting? No, we shouldn't. And we shouldn't bring in Legacy either.

But if you must reduce it into interference, Slaughter had General Adnan, Randy Savage and Sherri on side, and he only just beat the Warrior after Warrior was hit with a sceptre. Orton has Rhodes and DiBiase, who aren't as good as those people at interfering first of all, and secondly almost always end up getting Orton dq'd. If they showed up here, I don't doubt that this would happen.

From all the times he kicks out of finishers, yes he jumps straight up, but this isn't after a pinfall attempt. He has ben floored. Look at the video at around 4.38. He is rolling around in pain and ends up on his knees after 'Taker flooring him. The adrenalin that obviously hits him after kicking out of a pinfall isn't there when just hit with a move. Orton knows the RKO won't work, so he wouldn't go for the pinfall and he then has the chance to get the punt in.

I've already said why the punt won't work after an RKO, and you appear to have been the only person to have picked up on that. To address the fact that he sometimes gets up normally, he does, this is true, but the way he gets up depends on how much trouble he is in. Normally, he is only going to lose by weapons shots and finishers, so he gets straight up from them, but against Orton, he will be aware that he needs to pump the adrenalin as soon as he goes down for long enough to get punted.

In the Worst Match Ever(tm), you can see that Warrior has been put down by Hogan, but instead of getting up, he just rolls out of the way while Hogan tries to elbow drop him, I imagine that the Warrior would do something similar against Orton. I'd also like to point out that during this match The Giant tries to interfere, but Warrior gets rid of him easily. The Giant is quite clearly better than Legacy.

 

[Big Sexy]

Hasn't done enough?, Orton is a former WHC, a 3 time (and the current) WWE champion, he's also a former tag champ, and IC champ, Warrior is only a former 1 time WWF champion and 2 time IC champ, Orton has more WHC/WWE title reigns that Warrior has reigns with all his belts combined, Orton in 8 yrs. in the business Orton has already done more than Warrior could have ever dreamed of doing

You can't compare title reigns. Warrior was in a completely different era then Orton. What Warrior accomplished during his first 6 year run in the WWE was very impressive considering the fact that titles rarely changed hands. There are a lot more titles now and they change hands more frequently then any other era. Warrior has also beaten Hulk Hogan in his prime, Randy Savage in his prime, Ted Dibiase, Rick Rude. Orton has some impressive victories, but I don't believe he has as many as Warrior.

 

[NSL]

Justin, your argument doesn't change my stance.

So what if Ted or Cody interfere. They could both interfere. They're not as good as Savage. Warrior wouldn't get attacked by them at the top of the ramp. Oh, they'd be there. And, they'd eat their own ass. Badly enough, that they wouldn't be getting back in the ring to hit him with a lead pipe. Chances are, Orton will weigh himself down with shit while watching Warrior collapse his whole plan.

 

[THE Madcap]

Well I ran many different scenarios in my head to come out with the victor here, but Rhodes and DiBiase would be capable of distracting the ref/Warrior enough for a sneaky weapon attack, which Warrior would kick out of, then kick out of 2 subsequent RKOs, go for the gorilla press, and slam only to have Rhodes delay the pin by standing on the apron, Warrior knocks him off, Orton hits the RKO out of nowhere and THEN the punt for the 3 count. But I wasn't convinced... so I put Orton v Warrior on Legends of Wrestlemania and let the CPU decide for me... Orton won it would seem, so that's where my vote lies.

 

[Theo Mays]

I'm going Warrior here. Orton is a smart wrestler and knows his way around the ring like no other. Warrior is just a dominate madman. It would be close, but I see Orton hitting a RKO out of nowhere, but it has no effect and Warrior goes insane and puts it away.

 

[RealDealOdin]

Warrior should lose and Randy could had his name to the Legends he killed

 

[Evan Snow-Wolf]

I think the issue here is, this thread isn't a theorycraft of wether or not Randy could... if the sun was in alignment with the moon, during an eclipse, during the year of the Rooster, with Jupiter in the 7th house and rising on the cusp... win over the Warrior.

We are talking a straight up match, right? I'm hearing a lot of arguments that sound a lot like how Randy Orton COULD win a match... under the right criteria. I'll gladly concede that in a best of 7 match, Orton could get a win in there somewhere. But in a straight match-up.... ehhh... I don't know. Starting to reconsider my vote for Orton.

 

[BooCocky]

alright, I am gonna go out and say this. Orton was at the peak of his career without the lackeys. So I honesty can't believe the whole lackey argument. Nothing Orton has done can compete with Warrior. Orton was defeating legends well in there fifties. Legends who came off loses against people like Hassan or any up and comer. Warrior more than likely beat those legends in their prime. Which is another reason to vote for Warrior. The Ultimate Warrior was damn near unstoppable during his WWE(F) run. Randy Orton has won the WWE championship 3 times, and the number of days have yet to surpass Warriors one time reign.

Vote Warrior...

 

[Tastycles]

Warrior should lose and Randy could had his name to the Legends he killed

You mean like when he lost to Hogan? Or when the Undertaker dominated him until daddy saved him? Oh no, you must mean when he beat Sgt. Slaughter. Big deal, I could probably beat Sgt. Slaughter, he was like 59 years old.

The point of legends is that they are old and past it. Do you think Jericho would have beaten Steamboat, Snuka and Piper with Ric Flair in one match in their primes? Of course he fucking wouldn't, but now they're old he can. Orton beats the guys he does because their old.

Warrior in his prime was in his prime, funnily enough, which means that Orton wuld be able to get near him. If we were to list all of the people Warrior has beaten, we have a who's who of 80s wrestling history, whereas I don't think Orton has even beaten the biggest names of this era. He has never pinned Cena, one on one, for example.

 

[Miko]

The interference argument is shit, if Rhodes and DiBiase interfere then Sting comes down and beats the shit out of them.

Sorry, but Orton's a loser, I dont mean that in a personal way, I mean that Orton doesnt beat big names one on one, even with interference. Against HHH he always loses, against John Cena he always loses, against Batista he always loses. I'd argue that with the possible exception of Cena (although doubtfull) that Warrior is way better than all those guys. His win/loss record certainly is.

Batista's first title defence was against Orton, he won. Batista's just a much shitter Ultimate Warrior, if Orton cant beat him, he cant beat Warrior.

 

[justinsayne]

The only reason people are calling the interference argument shit is simply because they know it would work, how do you know it would work?, BECAUSE IT HAS WORKED IN THE FUCKING PAST!!!!, Warrior fanatics just can't handle the thought of Warrior losing to modern day wrestler, so the best argument they come up with is Legacy sucks, fuck that shit, yeah they suck but how much skill does it take to distract a face paint wearing clown, and then whack him on the head with something hard and metal?

 

[BooCocky]

You're ignoring it, the fact of the matter is, Ortons prime was without the help of legacy. He won his first title without them, his second, I believe his other title, his mid-card titles and even his tag team gold. He won all of that without Dibiase and Rhodes. The Orton of now isn't as good as the Orton who defeated HHH in the last man standing match, or the Orton who RKO'd Cena on the Saturday night main event. Orton should lose, and as of now, the majority is with me.

 

[Blade]

I could be wrong abouth this..

But as far as I'm aware, a scepter shot to the head was never able to put someone out for 4 months
The punt has.
Therefore the punt is more effective than the scepter.
Therefore Orton goes over.