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WWE New York, Round 3, Match 2: #5 Randy Orton vs. #12. The Ultimate Warrior
- Thread starter Shocky
- Start date
klunderbunker
Welcome to My (And Not Sly's) House
It's the Warrior here. Let's take a look at the video evidence. This is HHH pedigreeing Randy Orton.
[youtube]eqbXSu3O__Y[/youtube]
Orton is out like a damn light. He's not moving at all.
Here's HHH's whole match vs. the Warrior.
[youtube]WpbH_sJ25kQ[/youtube]
Warrior almost beats HHH back to his feet. The pedigree and the RKO are both designed to slam someone's face into the mat at a high rate of speed. If the pedigree has no effect, why should the RKO? Warrior and his insanity moves on here by shoulderblocking Orton into oblivion, slamming him and splashing him.
[youtube]eqbXSu3O__Y[/youtube]
Orton is out like a damn light. He's not moving at all.
Here's HHH's whole match vs. the Warrior.
[youtube]WpbH_sJ25kQ[/youtube]
Warrior almost beats HHH back to his feet. The pedigree and the RKO are both designed to slam someone's face into the mat at a high rate of speed. If the pedigree has no effect, why should the RKO? Warrior and his insanity moves on here by shoulderblocking Orton into oblivion, slamming him and splashing him.
IrishCanadian25
Going on 10 years with WrestleZone
KB, if you're going to use the "wrestler A beat wrestler B, and wrestler B beat wrestler C, so wrestler A would beat wrestler C" school of logic, I will take it upon myself to own you like many folks own suits. You're slippin, kiddo.
Anyway, I am not a big fan of people who vote for a particular wrestler because they are "smarter," because that is so hard to gauge. Only a handful of wrestlers have players the "smart wrestler" role well, and two of them are Jake Roberts and Randy Orton. In this tournament match, I am honestly leaning Orton. I think he'll slip out of the ring, get the ref mixed up in a corner tie-up, hit a low blow, and wait for Warrior to make a mistake before taking full advantage.
Mind you I am not 100% here, but I am 60 / 40 in favor of Orton right now.
Anyway, I am not a big fan of people who vote for a particular wrestler because they are "smarter," because that is so hard to gauge. Only a handful of wrestlers have players the "smart wrestler" role well, and two of them are Jake Roberts and Randy Orton. In this tournament match, I am honestly leaning Orton. I think he'll slip out of the ring, get the ref mixed up in a corner tie-up, hit a low blow, and wait for Warrior to make a mistake before taking full advantage.
Mind you I am not 100% here, but I am 60 / 40 in favor of Orton right now.
klunderbunker
Welcome to My (And Not Sly's) House
I'm not going off wrestler A etc. My point is that Orton's offense is mostly comprised of one move: the RKO. the pedigree is very similar to that, and it had no effect on Warrior.
That being said, let's look at some more facts: Warrior could kick out of anything. Go back and look at various tapes of Warrior matches. He kicked out of the two biggest finishers of the 80s: the leg drop and the flying elbow. Not only did he kick out of the elbow once, twice, or even three times. He kicked out of FIVE straight elbows. I don't care how strong the RKO is, it's not equal to five Macho Man elbow drops. Warrior simply did not lose big matches, ever. His only big time losses have all involved outside interference. When he lost the world title, it took Slaughter, Savage and Sherri to get it off him. When he lost the IC title, it took Rude and Heenan to get it away from him. Warrior is the original Goldberg. He had limited skills as a wrestler, but when he got going, nothing was going to stop him.
If nothing else, this should clear things up: Warrior beat Hulk Hogan for the world title, clean. How many other people can claim that? I'll give you a hint: it's a very short list. Warrior wins this one in a coast.
That being said, let's look at some more facts: Warrior could kick out of anything. Go back and look at various tapes of Warrior matches. He kicked out of the two biggest finishers of the 80s: the leg drop and the flying elbow. Not only did he kick out of the elbow once, twice, or even three times. He kicked out of FIVE straight elbows. I don't care how strong the RKO is, it's not equal to five Macho Man elbow drops. Warrior simply did not lose big matches, ever. His only big time losses have all involved outside interference. When he lost the world title, it took Slaughter, Savage and Sherri to get it off him. When he lost the IC title, it took Rude and Heenan to get it away from him. Warrior is the original Goldberg. He had limited skills as a wrestler, but when he got going, nothing was going to stop him.
If nothing else, this should clear things up: Warrior beat Hulk Hogan for the world title, clean. How many other people can claim that? I'll give you a hint: it's a very short list. Warrior wins this one in a coast.
Captain America
Pre-Show Stalwart
I'm going to dispute some of your points KB. You say that the pedigree put Randy away while it had little affect on Warrior. Which is true, but the HHH that fought the Warrior was well before his prime and was a lot smaller than the guy that faced Randy Orton. If HHH hit a pedigree on Warrior today I think it'd put him away.
With that said I wanna vote for Randy Orton in this tournament, but I don't really know if I should. Given that this is a kayfabe tournament I'll probably vote for Warrior unless someone can provide me with a very compelling argument as to why I should vote for Orton here in this match.
With that said I wanna vote for Randy Orton in this tournament, but I don't really know if I should. Given that this is a kayfabe tournament I'll probably vote for Warrior unless someone can provide me with a very compelling argument as to why I should vote for Orton here in this match.
Warrior might be able to kick out of an RKO, but I'm guessing a punt, which has put some top, top wrestlers out of action for weeks and ended careers, would put him down for a three count.
I am undecided who to vote for so far, I want to see what arguments are presented first, but if the argument for Warrior is he kicks out of the RKO, then it is not good enough. The punt would put him down. Whether Orton gets to use the punt or not is the question.
I am undecided who to vote for so far, I want to see what arguments are presented first, but if the argument for Warrior is he kicks out of the RKO, then it is not good enough. The punt would put him down. Whether Orton gets to use the punt or not is the question.
Randy Orton, a big pile of meh. The guys career is shrouded by the word, potential. I can come on here and read about a dozen new threads a day about why Orton is the greatest, blah blah blah. FAct of the matter, Randy Orton is criminally over rated. His match at Mania this year stunk the joint out, and he's a tremendous bore to watch in the ring. Randy Orton's moveset includes, in no particular order, headlock, chinlock, rearnaked chinlock, lock of lock, some head lock variant, a reverse headlock, punk RKO.
Randy Orton gives up how much strength, and i daresay it, how much speed to the Warrior. Orton's whole gameplan is set to wear down the neck and head area, and quite simpnly, he's nowhere near strong enough to have that game plan work on someone like the Warrior.
Orton hits the RKO, maybe even hits a punt, but the Warrior no sells that sonuvabich and destroys Orotn.
Randy Orton gives up how much strength, and i daresay it, how much speed to the Warrior. Orton's whole gameplan is set to wear down the neck and head area, and quite simpnly, he's nowhere near strong enough to have that game plan work on someone like the Warrior.
Orton hits the RKO, maybe even hits a punt, but the Warrior no sells that sonuvabich and destroys Orotn.
No way does Warrior lose this match, there is nothing in Orton's arsenal that would put that insane motherfucker down. Warrior just doesnt lose cleanly and Orton's lackeys are no where near good enough to make a difference.
Randy Orton loses nearly all of the one on one matches he has against big names, whereas Warrior didnt lose unless he was mobbed or laughing insanely at Hogans failed flashpaper antics. Warrior beat Hogan in his prime clean, Orton couldnt beat a Hogan that doesnt have his original hips.
He beat Randy Savage after taking 5 consecutive elbow drops and we all know that Randy Savage is far better than Randy Orton and the elbow > the RKO. All Ortons punt would do is piss him off.
Basically there is nothing Orton could do that Warrior wouldnt no sell and destroy him afterwards.
Randy Orton loses nearly all of the one on one matches he has against big names, whereas Warrior didnt lose unless he was mobbed or laughing insanely at Hogans failed flashpaper antics. Warrior beat Hogan in his prime clean, Orton couldnt beat a Hogan that doesnt have his original hips.
He beat Randy Savage after taking 5 consecutive elbow drops and we all know that Randy Savage is far better than Randy Orton and the elbow > the RKO. All Ortons punt would do is piss him off.
Basically there is nothing Orton could do that Warrior wouldnt no sell and destroy him afterwards.
Jack-Hammer
YOU WILL RESPECT MY AUTHORITAH!!!!
While I'm probably going to be in the minority, I cannot, in all good conscience, vote for the most overrated big name in modern pro wrestling history: The Ultimate Warrior. He makes Batista look good, that's how incredibly bad the Ultimate Warrior is. I'm not a huge Orton fan, but people tend to forget or overlook some of those he's beaten. RVD, Benoit, HBK, Edge, Jeff Hardy, etc. The Warrior's biggest claim to fame is his defeat of Hulk Hogan. And while that assured the Warrior's legacy, overrated as it is, it's not an automatic trump card over every potential opponent. Even though I don't think Orton will make it past this round, he gets my vote. Despite the negative comments about Orton, and there are many, I'll take a dose of "meh" over the worst worker of modern wrestling history.
Ah, so you'll be voting Warrior then?
Oh
Tell the truth you probably wont be in the minority, I expect the Orton fans to charge this one. Shame, Warrior is in my opinion one of the most underrated workers of all time. One of the better workers of all time actually.
I thought Batista was good too. Not Warrior level but good.
All of which would be jobbers in Warriors eyes.
And Savage dont forget that. Still Hogan in his prime is better than. . . . . . . . well everyone, except Warrior.
No, Orton probably will make it through sadly. Lets face it though, taking the attitude that Warrior is the worst, better to be the worst than meh, people remember the worst.
Mighty NorCal
SHALL WE BEGIN?
At the same time Shocky, the pedigree that didnt keep Warrior down was down on a Warrior that was FAR past his prime.
If you think for one second that the in his Prime UW, the one who beat Hulk Damn Hogan in the apex of Hulkamania, would even break a sweat against Randy Orton, your fooling yourself. I would say out of everything, Orton is at his prime (so far) right now.
and there is NO WAY Orton beats the Warrior, in his prime. No one could touch Warrior in his prime not even the greatest pro wrestler of all time. The Warrior cleanly defeating Hogan at Mania far eclipses everything Orton has ever accomplished put together.
Warrior.
If you think for one second that the in his Prime UW, the one who beat Hulk Damn Hogan in the apex of Hulkamania, would even break a sweat against Randy Orton, your fooling yourself. I would say out of everything, Orton is at his prime (so far) right now.
and there is NO WAY Orton beats the Warrior, in his prime. No one could touch Warrior in his prime not even the greatest pro wrestler of all time. The Warrior cleanly defeating Hogan at Mania far eclipses everything Orton has ever accomplished put together.
Warrior.
How is the Warrior a bad worker? He has had some of the greatest matches in professional wrestling history. Orton can't lick the shit off of the Warriors boots. The Warrior should win this match and it shouldn't even be close. Nothing in Ortons arsenal can put the mad man down. The Warrior will no sell the punt, the RKO, and everything else Randy throws at him. No one beat the Warrior cleanly during Warriors prime, not Hulk Hogan, not anyone. Like Miko said, Orton couldn't beat a Hogan with two fake hips, the Warrior was able to defeat him during Hogans prime. Warrior wins this match-up.
This is a squash match. Anyone who believes Orton would stand a chance against the Warrior is fooling themselves. In his prime, Warrior was UNSTOPPABLE. He never lost clean, ever. He kicked out of everyone's finishing moves, and would easily shrugg off a feather-tap like the RKO or the Punt. Warrior was a far bigger name than Orton, and he was a better worker. Orton's best match, whatever it is, isn't half as good as either of Warrior's matches at WM6 and WM7.
This is how the match would go: At the 10 minute mark of Orton's entrance to the ring, the Warrior's music plays. An impatient Warrior runs down to the ring, clotheslining Orton on the way, therefore making it to the ring before Orton does. Warrior shakes the ropes like the badass he is, then Orton finally gets in the ring. After about 5 minutes of action, Warrior wins after a press slam and running splash. The end.
Even though everything points to a Warrior victory, Orton will still most likely win this match. Thanks to blind votes by names such as RKOisdabest, Orton4eva1234 and RKOrulez.
This is how the match would go: At the 10 minute mark of Orton's entrance to the ring, the Warrior's music plays. An impatient Warrior runs down to the ring, clotheslining Orton on the way, therefore making it to the ring before Orton does. Warrior shakes the ropes like the badass he is, then Orton finally gets in the ring. After about 5 minutes of action, Warrior wins after a press slam and running splash. The end.
Even though everything points to a Warrior victory, Orton will still most likely win this match. Thanks to blind votes by names such as RKOisdabest, Orton4eva1234 and RKOrulez.
SavageTaker
Everybody Has A Price!
I think the Ultimate Warrior should pick up the win here.
I my opinion i think that he was far more stronger than Orton is,whether he was using steroids or not,fact of the matter is that he was stronger.
Now taking into account that since warrior was stronger he would obviously wrestle a different style. He would use power moves, possible hurting Orton in the process.
Also even though he was a dick, this is kayfabe, and he was very over. He nearly got a pops as big as hulk hogans. So he will use this to his advantage.
When Orton hits his rko, Warrior will just bounce right back up and perform all of his moves. Again strength will come into play as he hits some strong shoulder blocks or clotheslines, he then will pick up randy over his head and drops and perform a splash for the 3 count.
I my opinion i think that he was far more stronger than Orton is,whether he was using steroids or not,fact of the matter is that he was stronger.
Now taking into account that since warrior was stronger he would obviously wrestle a different style. He would use power moves, possible hurting Orton in the process.
Also even though he was a dick, this is kayfabe, and he was very over. He nearly got a pops as big as hulk hogans. So he will use this to his advantage.
When Orton hits his rko, Warrior will just bounce right back up and perform all of his moves. Again strength will come into play as he hits some strong shoulder blocks or clotheslines, he then will pick up randy over his head and drops and perform a splash for the 3 count.
It's...Baylariat!
Team Finnley Baylor
I'll tell you this.
I personally cannot stand the Ultimate Warrior. He sucked and scared me as a little kid. His matches were rubbish for the most part, and was just flat out nutty. HOWEVER, the Warrior is one of the toughest, most underrated workers in the business.
Sure he was roided out of his damn mind, but who wasn't back then? Boss Man? Anyway, I've watched too many of Warrior's matches. Pedigree can't put him down, and I must add, A MUCH more dangerous version of the Pedigree. An RKO won't do it either. Hogan's Leg Drop didn't even do it. And NO ONE kicked out of the Leg Drop. Period. A punt to the head from Orton might get a two count, but Warrior picks up a easier than expected win over Orton.
As much as I hate to say it, I'm voting Warrior, because I can't make a legit case for Orton to win this matchup.
I personally cannot stand the Ultimate Warrior. He sucked and scared me as a little kid. His matches were rubbish for the most part, and was just flat out nutty. HOWEVER, the Warrior is one of the toughest, most underrated workers in the business.
Sure he was roided out of his damn mind, but who wasn't back then? Boss Man? Anyway, I've watched too many of Warrior's matches. Pedigree can't put him down, and I must add, A MUCH more dangerous version of the Pedigree. An RKO won't do it either. Hogan's Leg Drop didn't even do it. And NO ONE kicked out of the Leg Drop. Period. A punt to the head from Orton might get a two count, but Warrior picks up a easier than expected win over Orton.
As much as I hate to say it, I'm voting Warrior, because I can't make a legit case for Orton to win this matchup.
If the punt can put Batista, a worse version of the Ultimate Warrior, out for months on end, I'm confident that it can keep the Warrior himself on the mat for three seconds. Probably.
The Warrior runs wild on Orton, there's no doubt. There's no time to be cold and calculating. He'll employ his vast array of head and chinlocks, maybe even throwing in some other locks at the same time, but to no avail. But all he needs to do is to be quick enough, just once, to get the Warrior partially down to the mat, then it's lights out.
Seriously.
The Warrior runs wild on Orton, there's no doubt. There's no time to be cold and calculating. He'll employ his vast array of head and chinlocks, maybe even throwing in some other locks at the same time, but to no avail. But all he needs to do is to be quick enough, just once, to get the Warrior partially down to the mat, then it's lights out.
Seriously.
Randy Orton, he ain't terribly quick is he. Slow and plodding are words I'd use. In comparison to other wrestlers his size that is. Some will say cerebral, I think I'm right with plodding.
He also doesn't win against wrestlers of an equal or higher status without some sort of stipulation or incident.
He also doesn't win against wrestlers of an equal or higher status without some sort of stipulation or incident.
If the Ultimate Warrior wasn't such an areshole in real life he'd have been the biggest name in wrestling. Fact. His natural charisma is greater than Hogan's, honestly, Hogan could work the crowd up by hulking up etc, but all Warrior had to do was start lifting his arms up and down and everyone shit their pants.
From the day he signed with the WWE until now, he has lost three matches. One against Rick Rude when Bobby Heenan, the best heel manager ever helped him. Once against Sgt. Slaughter when one of the greatest wrestlers ever had to interfere twice with one of the most amous valets ever, and once when the enitre nWo helped Hogan, someone he beat cleanly, beat him in the most farcical match ever.
Orton may be a legend killer, but when it comes to the megastars, like Hogan or Taker at WrestleMania, he didnt pull it off. So that argument doesn't work for him here.
Another thing about Orton is that despite being a heel, he often wns cleanly, as against Benoit, and Warrior has never lost cleanly.
People can talk all they want about the punt, but we're talking about a man that has kicked out of Tombstones and legdrops. Orton needs a run up to do the punt, and just to get him down long enough would prove too difficult. Bare in mind that Orton hardly ever uses the punt to win matches, I know he did recently, but that's it.
There are a million reasons why Warrior is better than Orton, and if we were all being honest, there's probably no way Warrior would lose to anybody in this tournament. He definitely wouldn't lose to Orton, who has not got the kind of resources needed to beat a man like this.
Anybody who says Warrior is overrated is a humongous hypocrite. If anyone can tell me a single decent match Orton has had where he is the reason for it being good, I'd be surprised. You can't put Warrior in a headlock, you can't keep him down for long enough to stamp on him, and he's no sold finishers far more potent than the RKO, e.g. Pedigree, Leg Drop, Tombstone, Rude Awakening... the list goes on.
Warrior wins, and it's not even close.
From the day he signed with the WWE until now, he has lost three matches. One against Rick Rude when Bobby Heenan, the best heel manager ever helped him. Once against Sgt. Slaughter when one of the greatest wrestlers ever had to interfere twice with one of the most amous valets ever, and once when the enitre nWo helped Hogan, someone he beat cleanly, beat him in the most farcical match ever.
Orton may be a legend killer, but when it comes to the megastars, like Hogan or Taker at WrestleMania, he didnt pull it off. So that argument doesn't work for him here.
Another thing about Orton is that despite being a heel, he often wns cleanly, as against Benoit, and Warrior has never lost cleanly.
People can talk all they want about the punt, but we're talking about a man that has kicked out of Tombstones and legdrops. Orton needs a run up to do the punt, and just to get him down long enough would prove too difficult. Bare in mind that Orton hardly ever uses the punt to win matches, I know he did recently, but that's it.
There are a million reasons why Warrior is better than Orton, and if we were all being honest, there's probably no way Warrior would lose to anybody in this tournament. He definitely wouldn't lose to Orton, who has not got the kind of resources needed to beat a man like this.
Anybody who says Warrior is overrated is a humongous hypocrite. If anyone can tell me a single decent match Orton has had where he is the reason for it being good, I'd be surprised. You can't put Warrior in a headlock, you can't keep him down for long enough to stamp on him, and he's no sold finishers far more potent than the RKO, e.g. Pedigree, Leg Drop, Tombstone, Rude Awakening... the list goes on.
Warrior wins, and it's not even close.
Ultimate Warrior should win this, Randy Orton is good but he's not Ultimate. Orton lost to an old man Hogan. Warrior beat Hogan in is prime, clean, for the title, at Wrestlemania. HHH's pedigree bitches Orton about rougly 200 times a year. Warrior was hurt by the pedigree for apporximatley 0.002 seconds. Warrior is far and away better.
justinsayne
Cody Rhodes is an excellant
Ugh, using the WM12 match to put Warrior over is a fucking joke, Triple H was a jobber at that point in his career, you mind as well post a match with Warrior going over the Brooklyn Brawler while you're at it, Orton is much more calculating and sadistic then the vast majority of the guys Warrior as faced in his career, and all he needs to do is "out-smart" Warrior (which shouldn't be hard seeing as how the guy is such a fucking ******), also lets not forget Orton can it the RKO out of nowhere, not saying that will win the match for him but if he can connect on the RKO and put Warrior down, then he can hit the punt as Warrior is getting up, and the combination of the RKO and Punt being hit back to back WILL keep Warrior down for a three count
justinsayne
Cody Rhodes is an excellant
It doesn't, the pedigree is the same move, just less effective
Of course the status of a wrestler determines how effective their finisher is, that's just common fucking sense, take Hogan for example do you really think his Leg Drop would be nearly as effective if he was just a jobber?, of course not that would just be dumb, same can be said for Rock's Peoples Elbow, Cena's FU, JBLs Clothesline from Hell, Jake "the Snake" and Ravens' DDTs, among others
How so? Orton has but out guys like Batista, Triple H, Cena, RVD, and HBK with the punt, and has beaten many others with the RKO, what does Warrior have a Gorrilla press slam...yeah not like Orton can't counter out of that and hit an RKO followed by a punt
Bad argument IMOWarrior wins this for sure. He was pretty much unstoppable in his prime and he has the size, speed, and strength advantage on Orton. I also don't buy for a second that Orton "outsmarts" him to win this match. Orton tried to outsmart HHH at WM 25 by using the sledgehammer on him. How'd that work out?
Vote Warrior, it is the only sensible thing to do.
Vote Warrior, it is the only sensible thing to do.
justinsayne
Cody Rhodes is an excellant
Please tell me you are not seriously implying that Warrior is as intelligent as the Cerebral Assassin, Warrior is the guy who sprinted to the ring, then sprinted laps around the ring then when he finally got in the ring he would shake the ropes violently, half the time he was spent before the danm match ever started which is the reason most of his matches lasted less than 5 fucking mins., smart wrestlers don't "blow their wad" before the match begins, they pace themselves, ever notice that the guys who are known for being ring great ring psychologist tend to walk to the ring slow (Taker, Trips, Orton, etc.), they take their time and make their opponent think about it, they also see to be the guys that can go the distance if necessary, Orton just has to last 10-15 mins. by then Warrior will be completely exhausted and when he goes for his Gorilla Press slam, Orton will just counter out hit the RKO and Punt Warrior skull off his damn shoulders and pin Warrior for the win
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